Enneagram with Nicki Wilson

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 61. Today I'm sitting down with Nikki Wilson and we're talking all things Enneagram. Are you ready? Stay tuned. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their product, products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up, coach? Welcome back to another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. Today, I'm sitting down with one of my really good friends, which we do talk about inside of the show, sitting down with her, and we're talking all about the Enneagram. Now, I'm really excited for this, for this episode, particularly because y' all are gonna get to know me a little bit more. Now, throughout this show, throughout these episodes, I am fully transparent. There's nothing that I hide or hold back. And so you. It just doesn't come to the forefront of my mind until it does. So in this episode, you're gonna learn a little bit about me, a little bit about me than you probably are anticipating, which is one of the reasons that. Why I love the Enneagram. So if you are not familiar with it, we do talk about it. And I know this is a long episode, but trust me when I tell you that this, learning, this tool did change my life in the sense that I learned so much more. So much about myself, but also about my friends and about my. My colleagues and about people that I work with. And it's a tool that I use to help me in my hiring process, mostly because. Which Nikki will talk about, but mostly because it is just a little bit deeper than your other typical personality, personality type insight that's out there. And so the Enneagram has been really powerful for me. And in this episode, we sit down and talk about it and talk about what the numbers are, how the. How it's going to help you in your business and in terms of who you work with, people you're hiring, or maybe you're at a job right now, and also client relations. So I'm really excited to dive into this.

Now.

The reason I asked Nikki specifically to come is because she was the one that introduced me into the Enneagram. And her and I have just. Since that moment, we have just really gone deep in conversations around personalities and around these numbers specifically. And her so much so that her and I, we used to run a podcast together, Action Made Mamas. And I love it. It so feels both. Such a long time ago. But honestly, it was also yesterday. So we sat down with your Enneagram coach and we did an Enneagram typing for me on the podcast. So that was. That was pretty amazing and awesome. And honestly, I've just loved the Enneagram ever since. So hopefully you're excited to get into it now. Nikki Wilson is the owner of Nikki Wilson. She is a fitness. Also some a business coach, but primarily she is a fitness coach, but specifically a body confidence coach. And she is the host of Crazy Confidence Podcast. She really inspires. Inspires women to love their bodies as is, live fit and free and still enjoy and use fitness as a means to enjoy life as opposed to try and make yourself smaller. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview.

Nikki.

Oh, my gosh, y', all. You're all. You guys are in treat because we got two besties on the show today. I'm super excited to have you, Nikki, how are you?

Oh, Beverly. I don't know if they're in for a treat. Something. I don't know. Honestly, a little worried it's going to go off rail here.

No, it's amazing.

No, I like it. I like it. I mean, Beverly and I. Do your audience know we had a podcast together?

Yeah, we've talked about it, but I'm not. Not in.

Yeah, we used to have a podcast together and it was so fun. So fun. I miss it. I do miss it.

I do miss it, too. And honestly, because of that podcast is what really inspired this episode. Talking all about the Enneagram. So for those of you who don't know who this amazing human is, can you share with us a little bit, Nikki, about who you are, who you serve, what you do and how you got.

Sure. Okay. Well, my name is Nikki Wilson. We're on video too, right? But yeah, unfortunately for you guys, it's really cold here. Like, I live in Texas, y', all, and it's normally like 70 degrees, and it's like a blistering 30. And I walked because I have. I got to get my 10,000 steps in before noon. That's like my. We'll talk about this. This is Enneagram problems. Enneagram. Three problems. But it was like the wind was blowing at my face. Like I couldn't even put makeup on afterwards. It just.

30 degrees is cold. That is cold for me.

And it is windy. I mean, Y', all, this is. It's a lot for my little Texas heart. It's going to be really cold. So anyway, if I couldn't even put on makeup, my face was frozen. So here we are. But anyway, my name is Nikki Wilson, and currently I would call myself a body image coach. I. My trade, my training, my college degrees are in social work. So I say, like, I'm not a practicing social worker, but I feel like so much of what I do is a lot of social work. It is a lot of identifying people's problems or problem areas, like issues in their life they want to do better, and then making a plan for them, helping them make a plan, helping them execute it. I mean, I was a trainer, am a trainer still. I kind of took a break from the fitness industry for a while, you guys. And Beverly can attest I am back on the fitness train. Most of my clientele. This will be helpful for your audience is, you know, moms who are late 30s, 40s, who really struggle with body image, you know, who struggle to just have that acceptance piece of. Yeah, you're not, you know, 130 pounds anymore, but you can still be healthy still, you know, pursue health without pursuing weight loss as the end goal. And for a while, I think I was really struggling. I think when I met Beverly, actually. How many years ago that. Five. Five years ago. Four. Five.

Only three.

Girl I know hyper space time right now in the.

In the era of COVID Yeah, they're crazy.

Yeah. So three years ago, I think I was kind of in this really weird crux position where I was afraid that fitness was harming people's body image and acceptance with their body and their relationship with their body. So I just kind of pumped the brakes a little bit. But y', all, I think I'm. I'm now leaning into my fitness, love and passion. It never went away for me. I just wanted to step back and examine the body. Acceptance, body confidence, peace on its own, and heal people's relationship with their bodies. But I think I really, honestly, with this virus, I don't even know if we say it because it will flag it all and we'll get like links to 100 different things. So we'll just say the virus, I think it's really pushed me back into, you know what? Here is the deal, you guys. We get one chance, we get one vessel, we get one body, and you really have to take care of your house, you know, So I just love that, you know, so much of what I do is showing people that the Journey to anything, whether it is health or business, anything. It is so not linear, you know? And so that is kind of the beauty of this, where I have just kind of allowed myself to take a break, and now I am back in. So, anyway, you know, I do a lot of things digitally. I have some DIY fitness programs. I had a body confidence membership for a while. And so I am really leaning back into creating programming strength programs for women currently.

I love it.

And I'm a mom. And, you know, we're in quarantine right now, or my son is in quarantine. So we're sharing a computer and Beverly. So we're talking about the Enneagram today. I'm sure Bev will kind of usher us into this. But before the virus, we. I was getting certified. I mean, I'm, like, this close, you guys, to being a certified. Did you know that? Amazing. Secretly did it because I just turned 40. I'm about to be 41. But I kind of had this, like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be 40. Like, I'm going to do all these things. And then the virus hit, and it was like I was thrust back into, like, oh, my gosh, I'm homeschooling. My kids only do this, like. Like, I don't even know what life is. So I had a really weird. I've had a really weird year, to be honest with you. So. But. But the Enneagram is something that's just, like, always on my mind, always in the back of my mind as a tool to. To work on myself and work on relationships with people.

So you're almost a coach. You're a certified Graham coach.

Yes.

This close.

This, like, this close.

Amazing. Are you gonna finish that this year?

Yeah, I need to finish it. Like, I could finish it, like, this week if I.

Oh, well, I'm really excited about talking to talk about the Enneagram today, because the truth of the matter is that it honestly changed my life. And I didn't get introduced into it until I met Nikki. And it changed my life and for many reasons, because, number one, it really helped me understand myself and how I respond to things. And I can really look, you know, look outside of myself to be like, this is. I'm responding this way because this is why. And I just had, like, a base of, like, I had a context where I could go back and kind of look outside of myself about what's happening. And not only did it do that for me, but it also helped my relationships with other people, and it improved My relationship with my friends, because I could really understand where they were coming from based on a lot of the info that we talk about in this episode. And honestly, I looked like I should keep looking, because what was amazing is that Nikki was the one that introduced it to me. And then we did. On our podcast, we did a live, like, what's Bev's number? And it was so interesting because for the longest time, I was like, I'm every number. And then when I realized what number I really was, it was like, of course I'm no other number except this.

Well, and, Deb, you need to link that episode, like, link that one with. With Beth to your show notes.

I don't think it exists anymore.

No, it does.

Oh, it does. Okay. Well, then, yeah, I will, because it was a really.

I'll send it to you. It exists.

So.

So helpful.

And.

And it's so meaty.

Yeah, it was meaty. But you're gonna give them this insight a little bit. My hope is, is because not only did the Enneagram change my life, but listen, it's really helped my relationships with my clients. It's really helped my relationship. It helped me find an assistant and find someone and grow my team based on the number. Like you. I love them. But I asked him. I was like, I need you to come with all these personality tests because I need to know who you are.

I know somebody, actually. Like, I had put this. And then we'll get into it, because people probably like, what are you even talking about? But I had put a couple of years ago, and I was looking for an assistant. Like, I only wanted these three numbers, and someone was, like, kind of mad, like, I am. And we're discriminating. I'm like, is there Enneagram number discrimination? I don't know. Of course. We live in such a sensitive world. I'm sure I'll get in trouble for this job. But I need you to know this personality and this works. This work will not work with any other numbers, because I know myself so well. So, anyway, it was really funny, but so for your listeners, just. The Enneagram is an ancient. Ancient. Like, they don't really know the exact origins of where it came from, but a lot of monks used to use the Enneagram. And the Enneagram is basically. Essentially, it's nine different numbers, one through nine. Okay. And there's three different triads with the numbers. And I'll kind of touch on a little bit, but you guys are going to want to go do more information. And I'M sure Beverly will link this to your enneagram coach, your enneagram coach.com where you can take the assessment if you're not sure and get all this good info as we touch on it here. But basically, the Enneagram will label you as a 1, 2, 3. Like you identify as a 1, you identify as a 2, 3, et cetera, up to 9. And the difference between the Enneagram and personality tests, I love this is where I think it really gets good because it deals with your core motivations instead of your personality and Persona and, like, you know, just maybe some of the things that you're just more prone to. Like, I think Beverly and I on the Myers Briggs are we both enfj?

Well, I have a funny story side story about that. But yes, I identified as an ENFJ for a long time, but when I got typed, I got typed by Alex that I'm an esfp.

Esfp. Okay, well, either way, when we were both thinking we're both ENFJs, it was. It's kind of laughable because Beverly and I have a lot of the same characteristics, but, like, on a very surface level, I can see it. But, like, when we would start talking, I would just be dying, laughing like, there's no way we're the same Myers Briggs. But it's really because that's a very, like, overall generalized personality test where this really deals with core motivations. Childhood wounds, how you perceive time, future, present or past stances. It gets kind of in depth and complicated. But, you know, so when you kind of look at it from. From those perspectives, you're like, okay, well, this totally makes sense how Beverly and I could be a very similar Myers Briggs, but a totally different Enneagram number as we just have, like, such different core motivations.

You know, for me, like, when I look at the personality test. You take a personality test and they kind of determine it based on the choice. And the Enneagram looks at the why you made the choice.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, we like, you know, and we'll get into it. But just even, for example, I think, you know, Beth from your Enneagram coach talked to Bev and I and she was like, if somebody said, hey, I'm coming over really quick to bring this whatever it is to you, and you, you're like, oh, my gosh, somebody's coming over and you put on your glasses. We each wear a different color glasses with a lens of. Why do we feel the need to, like, clean up house before this person comes over? You know, and each number will have a different reason why the house needs to be tidy before a visitor comes over. Does that make sense? So it's interesting in the really small things, but also in the bigger things too.

So love it. Okay. And what's also interesting for when I talk to someone who's new, and honestly, me too, when I was first learning about the Enneagram, there you start to look at all, like, the bad things or the negative things. Because when you start to, like, look at the core motivators, it's easy to get into, like, oh, I'm the bad number. I didn't want to be a six.

Well, everybody thinks they're the bad number. And I think that's important for your audience to hear. Like, if you start to dig into this, which I highly recommend that you do, the bad things are going to jump out at you first because it's going to call your name. You know what I mean? It's kind of going to call out your BS and you are like, oh, I kind of do do that. And each number has a healthy, healthy place that they live in, a moderately healthy place, and then like, unhealth that they live in. And that is kind of the characteristics that you dwell in that are negative and unhealthy. But the other thing I love about the Enneagram, as opposed to other personality tests, is you can climb up and out from an unhealthy place where you have all these bad characteristics into the healthier place where you are just really operating out of your best self and your best strengths. So it is not like a doom and gloom. Like, you are like, you look at every number and you are like, oh, my God. You know, but it is like, ok. But also on the flip side of that, a six has so many great qualities that I know I can work on and, you know, and be a better friend, be a better wife, be a better coach, and you don't have to live in the doom and gloom of it.

I love it. So can you break down. So you started. Tell us about the triads, but can we go into the actual numbers and then the triads?

Sure. And again, you will want to assess yourself and kind of, you know, dig into a little more than just what we are talking about here. Because I actually mistyped myself for like a year before I really, like, listened to some really great teachings. And then I was like, oh, okay, I'm actually an enneagram 3.

What did you think you were?

I thought it was an Enneagram too. And we'll Talk about it. We'll talk about it. Okay. So one is the perfectionist, the moral perfectionist. So ones are people who really value being right, being good, being righteous. They're not a lot of like, they're kind of do gooders. And on the bad side of one, they have an inner critic that just constantly is in their ear telling them what they could have done better, what they should have done, how bad they are, or you know, if you would have just studied harder, done better, you know, given this client more attention. Whatever it is, it's that it's a literal like voice in their head that never goes away and just tells them all the ways that they're wrong. And I've never really talked to a one who's like, my inner critic is nice. It's more like once they figure out that they're one, they start to like block out that inner critic. But ones are what they call the gut triad. So a lot of your response, it's not, it's not necessarily emotions or a logical thought, but it comes from just knowing, you know, you know, you know, it's that gut response like, this is right. I know it's right. I'm going forth and doing it. So they have that really like fire in their gut which could honestly make them struggle sometimes with anger and bitterness and resentment. Because a lot of things, ones struggle with is and a lot of people mistype as one because I think people get on our nerves as every number. I mean, we're like, you're on my nerves, you're not doing things right. But you know, the ones kind of can't let it go. And I've heard my one friends tell me before that they feel like they're the captain of the ship and it's or the general of the army. And if they're not on directing and like doing all the things, then everybody else will fall down on their duties and not perform and nothing will get done or they'll die. You know, whatever it is. It's like ones are very, they just have that, that work ethic that I'm.

Going to get it done and I'm.

Going to do it right. I'm going to do it 100% and you're going to count on me or else the inner critic is just going to come in and berate them, you know, so that's kind of a one. And I mean we could talk about every number for like three hours, but we won't. I will move on to a two. A two is the helper. So twos are very empathetic. They are very compassionate. That's what I thought I was. A lot of people in the profession or you're helping people, you know, meet goals and teaching people. And just a lot of people will mistype themselves as a two. Twos are very. They're not an aggressive stance, but they're very aggressive in offering help. And I always say, you know, you're a two. This is how I just think. It's a. It's a telltale to me. A2 knows instinctively what to do when somebody is suffering, somebody is in trouble, somebody needs help. They are the first responders in the world of enneagram. They just know what to do if you have a loss in your family. Twos are the first people texting you. Can I bring you a meal? Can I pick up your kids from school? Can I take care of getting your house cleaned for you? They're very aggressive and they're just aggressive in their help. And they just know instinctively like, this is what people need right now. They know what you need before you even know sometimes what you need. And sometimes that is very welcome, and sometimes it is not so welcome, you know, and somebody is telling you exactly what you need and you really don't like that, Right? So twos also in a really bad place, can manipulate people for love, for a love response. They can overextend their help and forget about their own needs. That is a very telltale sign of a two is just giving, giving, giving and expecting love in return. Kind of low key. And then when they don't get it in return, they become very upset and kind of lash out or withhold love or just a general woe is me kind of attitude, which nobody likes to hear. Again, those are kind of the bad, bad things. But twos are just incredible, incredible helpers. They're in the feeling triad. So they are going to be acting upon feelings rather than logic or the gut response. They Twos tend to value relationships more than any other number. And they will, like, put themselves in a tailspin of like, I call it vain imagination, where they just create all these scenarios with people in their head that really aren't true. Nobody ever said that, you know, but they're so relationally wound up that oftentimes it prevents them from taking action. They are in. They have a very hard time taking action in life. And ones do two. They often have a hard time taking action because it is not good enough yet. It is not right. So they kind of spin their wheels or stay on that Hamster wheel. And a two has a hard time making decisions because they are constantly thinking about how relationally this is going to matter.

Interesting.

So, ok, moving on to three. This is my area of expertise because I am a 3, and those are the achievers. And probably a lot of people, probably even your listeners, Bev, or the people you coach, can identify or mistype as a three. Right? Because we kind of thought you were maybe a three. We thought we were.

I was a three then we thought maybe I was an eight.

I thought you were an eight. Personally, you're. You have the most aggressive kind of personality, in my opinion.

She says it in love. I know, I know.

In total love. I was like, dang, this girl, she aggressive. She's an eight. That was in my head. And you're never supposed to label people. That's like a cardinal sin of enneagram. You don't want to label people. That's never good. You want them to come to it on their own. But I had Beverly explore it a little bit until we actually decided she's something else. But we'll talk about that in a minute. But a three is an achiever. And the thing about threes, they are in the feeling triad, but they're feeling suppressed. So instead of operating on feelings, what they do is they shove their feelings down and they shove and shove and shove and the three will be a chameleon to any situation they can kind of squeeze in. They're usually very gregarious, very charming, but they kind of can just get along any situation and morph and mold. And the thing that comes with that it is bad is that you often don't really know yourself. You don't really know what you like. You don't really know who you are because you can just go into every area of life and fake it till you make it. And you usually make it, but you're fake when you get there. You haven't done any work, so you just arrive. Because people really look to threes. They tend to be very outgoing, they tend to be very motivating. There are a lot of motivational speakers, a lot of coaches, just very gregarious, helpful people who are like your biggest cheerleader and they kind of just get things done. And one of the struggles, even for me, like, I was just telling you guys, like, I had to take a step back and, like, kind of figure out what is my path, what am I feeling used to. I would just dive into the next thing because I knew I could. I honestly, I've told Beverly this Before. I've never really, like done anything where I haven't succeeded in. And when I don't succeed, I drop out immediately. When I start to feel that pain and that those suppressed feelings start coming up, I drop out. And Beverly's experienced that with me in several different ways. We kind of laugh about it because I don't like to be vulnerable. I don't like to seem vulnerable. I like to look. Even though I don't have mom makeup today. See, I am just a healthy 3. I am working on myself. I don't like to look like I am not put together. Like I don't have it all together. And when somebody calls my number, they know it really like bothers the three. They don't like to be called out and be vulnerable and they really fear failure and they really don't like vulnerability.

So you say that because for me, like I, when I know someone's a three, I'm. I'm very. To me, I feel like threes are magnetized. Like they're, I'm very. Like they're so magnetic because of their, their inner, because of their, their energy in terms of their like, extrovertedness. But because they have that chameleon side, I feel like they can really connect with you really quickly. For me, I am drawn to like I could find the three in the room and I will stand next to her.

Yes. And they're very aggressive stance. So threes are future oriented aggressive stance. So it's one of those things. They're going to come out and they're going to tell you exactly what they feel, but it may not be exactly what they feel. They're going to tell you to win you over. They're just charmers. I mean, they really are charmers. And so a lot of times in a work situation, you might be like, oh my God, this person is too good to be true. And then when push comes to shove for the three or they realize, like, oh my God, I know I told them that I was really good at this or I was versed in it, I kind of wasn't. And then they kind of ghost you. That's an issue with the three. You know, they'll ghost you to kind of self preserve themselves. Like, hey, I'm out. You know, I'm just gonna duck under here. And by. And you know, that could be a potential work issue with the three.

Yeah. For, you know, an employee and, or a client. Like if you're with a client and all of a sudden they're not adhering or maybe You're. You know, they're never going to tell you that this is too hard. Your threes are not going to be your complainers. Your threes are going to be the people that are like, oh, yeah, this is great. And then don't call you back.

Yeah. You'll be, like, so confused because you had the best phone conversation. I mean, I walk away. I have to really watch myself. I've learned so much about myself, bless my heart. Just like, everybody thinks they're my best friend. They talk to me, and then, like, months later, they'll be like, weirdness. And I'm like, oh, what's going on? And, you know, people will be like, well, I kind of thought we were on this level. And I'm like, oh, I'm on the level with everybody. Just my conversations are free. And my personality, I think it's so warm and welcoming. But I can also know Beverly knows I have really high or low outer walls, but really high inner walls. But that's very confusing to people, I think, for the three.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because a three will connect with you, and you're like, oh, my gosh, this is my best friend.

And.

But they're best friends with everyone.

Yes. And then they're kind of like, well, that hurts my feelings. I'm like, oh, well, I kind of only have three friends, actually, when it comes down to it. Like, I only have three people that I share my real self. Because threes tend to feel very unsafe being who they are. They really struggle because they feel like people need them, and they need them to be this Persona. And when they fail or they let people down, they. That's, like, the worst thing for them. Failure is, like, the worst thing for them. So that's a big struggle. And of course, when I found out I was at three, I was doing a long road trip by myself and listening to this amazing teaching by Suzanne Stabile. And one of the things she said was, threes have to have an automobile or a car that is, like no one else. And I was like, yes, that's me. What an A hole. Like, that's so superficial. But I hate it when people have the same car as me. Like, it really bugs me. So I was, like, crying. I was so superficial. But I was like, we have to be unique. We're very aesthetic. We like our aesthetics. We like to look good. You know, for those of y' all listening, like, who are fitness professionals or trainers, like, threes will be some of your best clients because they like to look good and do the right Thing and be the perfect one, be the top scorer. And they're very high achievers. So I was crying over the very. They're very materialistic workaholics. That's the bad part of threes.

Okay, our fours tell us all right.

Fours, these are the artists. These are the authenticity people. They really. They're also in the feeling triad. And fours are the most feeling number. Fours feel as though they are so unique they can never fit in, and that grieves them. They are the people who love to feel their emotions. And when people like me try to fix an emotion, it really makes the four upset. They like to feel the range. They have the widest range of emotions and they want to feel them. So if they're angry, they really want to stay in the anger. If they're sad and feeling like they need to listen to really sad music and cry and lament, they enjoy it. I don't think they would say in the moment. I'm really enjoying, like, thinking about my past breakups. Thank you. But they really are into feeling all the feels and letting them be that way. Because of this, they also have a really hard time taking action because every step of the way, A4 feels as though they might come across as inauthentic or even worse, be inauthentic and fall into some trap. And that doesn't allow them to really be them and be themselves. You do find a lot of addiction, depression in fours because of the kind of the lonesome emotional nature. At their best, though. Oh, my gosh. They are the creators, they are the artists, they are the musicians who are constantly creating new things and new experiences and wanting you to go out and experience life, experience something new, value yourself, you know, value the space that doesn't get used within. Like, they are the best at, like, drawing you out of naturally who you are and wanting you to be that authentic self. So fours, you know, tend to kind of hole up sometimes. They might seem very introverted, emotional, but very creative, artistic in nature. So we love the force for that reason. Because, I mean, they're just that, like, let's see the beauty in everything and everyone. So we love our pores for that reason.

Love it.

Yeah. Okay, we're ready for five.

Yeah, let's go.

Investigators. The Five. The investigators. So five, six are going to be on the Enneagram one through nine. Fives are going to be the most reserved, the most seemingly introverted. Now, there can be extroverted fives, for sure. For sure. They just tend to be more drawn in, more withdrawn. And they love to research things. They love to know everything there is to know about anything they want to know about. And you know those people, right? Just like the investigators, they love to have information. They hold information as power, as, like, the highest knowledge, and they kind of like to kind of have that over other people. Fives get very, very exhausted by too much interactions with people. They are very easily, easily drained. But I think the good thing in the five operating in their best, in their highest health, is a really great friend who just. They're just the people, like, they're going to shoot you straight, and they know what they know, and they're going to help you however it is that you need. And they're not going to be like this weird. Like, I don't know, there's not going to be a weird exchange of energy. It just is going to be like, okay, this is, like, what I'm going to do for you, and this is what I need you to do for me, and I need you to, like, remain out of my space for too long. So I love fives because I feel like you kind of get what you get, and they're not trying to bring any emotion into it. It's a very logical. Fives are in the head triad, so they use a lot of analytics and logic. Now. This causes them a lot of times also to have a hard time taking action and doing. Because they're constantly researching. If I just do this one, if I just find them a little bit more, I'll be the expert. If I just, you know, just read about it more, find out a little bit more about it and just know the most, then I will take action. Well, guess what? Sometimes you can never know everything about everything, so that kind of hinders you. Right? So that's a lot of times what you're dealing with with fives.

Okay, the six.

You want to talk about the six, the loyalist. The loyalist.

Well, there's two types of sixes.

Yes, there are.

Mm. Yeah. So I'm the six. I'm the counterphobic six.

So there's phobic sixes, which Beverly is not a phobic six. Like, actually, when you talk about a six as a phobic, and you're kind of like, oh, that just doesn't make sense. And then when you talk about the counterphobic six, you're like, okay, that's totally. Yes. Most people identify as a phobic six. So a phobic six, they are constantly looking out the horizon and seeing everything that can go wrong. See, it feels very Negative. But they're just seeing, like, okay, if A plus B equals C, I need to do this. And then they have, like, this scenario for every scenario, the backup scenario for every scenario. Right. Sixes use what they call the inner committee. So they're. Beverly's laughing only because how many conversations have we had? I'm like, are you talking to me? Are you talking to your inner committee? She's always talking to her inner committee. She uses my text messages. She texts me, like, the soundboard as her inner committee. Does that make sense? And I'm just psychologically here for it. Like, that's actually talking to her inner committee. I'm gonna let her do that on my text. I mean, it's like. It's amazing. But the inner committee, so they're constantly seeing, well, this. If I do this, this will happen. This might happen. This might happen. It's like their mind can't get unboggled with different scenarios. So imagine it's really hard for them to land. It's not that they don't take action. It's just really hard for them to land because they're so fearful that they'll land in the wrong place, and then it'll be catastrophic if they make the wrong decision. And you're kind of like, sometimes just like, well, if you make the wrong decision, like, what's the worst that can happen? And that's actually really helpful for a six phobic. Sixes tend to be the loyalists. They tend to be people who, you know, they're just the model citizens. Like, they're going to go to the 4th of July parade and honor our veterans because that's the right thing to do, because they have seen. Served our country. You know, they're going to serve on the PTA because that's the right thing to do, because the teachers do so much for the children. They are going to go to the same hairstylist for years. Because that is the right thing to do, is to employ this person and not give them any, you know, shaky grounds or reason to think anything of you. And I think Beverly would attest to, a lot of times you're loyal just to feel the love. Right. Like, we kind of like their loyalist in order to get something. Yeah.

You know, and that literally only came out just from this podcast that came a couple weeks ago. But, like, I. So the six. One of the reasons why I did not identify with the 6 was for 2 main reasons, is that that fear is their ultimate. You know, is their course, and, you know, is there is the thing that keeps, you know, holds them back. But the other thing about A6 is that they tend to not be the. The. They're not your CEO. They're not the person that's like, stand front and center. They're the.

They're the great employee.

They're the great employee. They are your A player Bs, meaning that you are like the. As the visionary. You're like, I want this. Your six is going to be like, I'm going to make that happen for you and you're not even going to have to guess.

Yeah. Or even if you treat me like dirt in the workplace, like, I'm still going to show up.

Yes.

For the next 35 years and, like, serve you well.

Yes.

You know, and so, you know, we do get into sixes a little bit of like, maybe they put up with a little too much cramp from people and they need to learn to, like, stand their ground. There's another part of a six, though. This is where Beverly comes in, where there's the counter phobic 6, where they actually have the fear and see the fear and they see the scenarios lined up and the catastrophic possibilities. But they go so aggressively head first into those things that they come across as, like, incredibly aggressive and in charge because they have decided instead of being fearful and running and hiding and like, just abiding in, that they're going to do the opposite and, like, just beat it to a pulp, you know, and like, get through it and put their head down and just go, go, go. And so they really kind of become like Beverly saying, like the CEO, the people who jump out of airplanes, just the people that are, like, so aggressively, like, in your face sometimes, they almost seem like an eight, which we'll talk about in a minute. But I really see that in Beverly so much. Like, one thing I really love about Beverly that I see sixes like a pattern of expected behavior. And. And they don't. They're. They're actually very like. They. They're drawing a lot on the past. And so she reads the same books over and over.

I do.

It's true. She watches the same dang movies over and over. I'm always like, have you seen. I love movies. I'm a movie connoisseur. And we. I'm like, how are we friends? Just on that fact alone, because you are watching what. What is it? The vampire movie?

Twilight.

I watch, like, Twilight every week. And that's. It is like, that's. I'm watching Twilight again. I'm watching Beauty and the Beast. I'm like, okay. But it's predictability. And when her mind needs to be taken off of the catastrophic possibilities, she goes to the comfort of the, the comfort of the norm and the feelings of like, familiarity, which are really big. I think for a six it was.

And so this is why, you know, knowing my number was so powerful because here are the examples, right? Is that, you know, I, I'll never forget I called Nikki and said, wait because my husband's a nine and we'll get to that. But I was like, wait, your mind goes blank? And Nikki was like, yeah. And I was. My mind never goes blank. I mean it's.

I really.

But I can, it cannot go blank. And so for me, and I'm extroverted. So I am very, you know, process on the outside. I'm always talking and I'm literally, for me, you know, it's comforting to work through worst case scenarios. So I will feel the fear and do it anyway. As long as I'm like, okay, you know, you know, yes, scenario, I still need to know what those are and just make the decision to do it anyway. And what's interesting too, you know, and you know, it's easy for me to say that now, but when I didn't know that that's what was happening, I was just spending hours of time on this like thought loop.

Totally. And.

And you, you know, and I was, I'll say things, you know, you can. I can usually get little like verbal cues from people because they'll usually say things like, I think, I think or I feel, I feel. My gut says like, okay, I kind of. I know where you're living, even if you don't know where you're living. So I was like in this, trapped in this thought loop because the six is ahead number. But it's just been so easy. It's been, you know, now that I know it, I'm like, okay, I need, I know I need to make fear my friend. And for my people here, you guys know that fear is, you know, brain based. It lives in the lizard, the lizard part of our brain. And everyone's going to get fear when we're making changes. That is, is true. But this is fear, like to a different level. This is fear, like, you know, literally, like, I'll call Nikki and be like, hey, you know, how do I make sure my daughters don't get sucked into like human trafficking?

I'm not. It's just, I'm laughing like on a friend level. It's so true. She'll be like, oh, if they watch this cartoon, are there sex traffickers undercover? I'm like, how did you draw conclusion?

I go. My husband went ahead to go into my Facebook and, like, delete all these things, because I was going down these, like, dark spirals of, like. I mean, I walked by, you know, when I was in my postpartum experience and flood of home, you know, flood of hormones. I was walking on 8th street in New York, and I saw somebody doing drugs, and I just, like, bald. I called my husband and was like, my children are going to be drug addicts. How do we prevent it? What, they're going to be homeless?

Catastrophic. It's just, like, the catastrophic fears live there. And, you know, and six is really one of the best pieces of advice, I think. Susan Stabile, who's, like, the grandmother of the Enneagram, said one of the best things sixes can do for themselves when they get worked up. And everybody knows the six, by the way, because they're very. It's a highly populated. Especially now. You guys were in the virus lockdown. Like, you'll identify six very easily because they are the ones who are not okay. The ones who are having anxiety and loneliness and, like, catastrophic things. And one of the things. Suzanne Stabil says the best thing a six can do is write out all the things you're, like, having anxiety about and fearful of, and, like, give them a piece of your mind. Just write them all out frantically, and then keep it for a week. Like, post it up somewhere and then revisit it every day. Did this happen? I mean, Beverly's gonna hang up a poster that says, my kids are homeless, drug addicts, sex trafficked, and she's gonna be like, no, that didn't happen. You know, it's just, like, to see your fear written out and, like, deal with it. Like, is okay. Like, are these very small things happening every day? No. Like, they end up not happening. So. And when they do. And when they do, guess what happens? You typically move on and, like, find the way around. So I have just a lot of tenderness in my heart for my sixes, because that fear thing is a real thing. Fear and anxiety are a really real thing.

I mean, literally, just the other day, we were sitting in Cheesecake Factory with the kids, and I just started bawling at the table, and my husband was like, what's wrong? And I was like, I saw the trailer for the Vow on the Nexum, and I was like, and how am I going to. This is, like, legit. I'm not even exaggerating. He just looks over and I'm crying and he, he's like, what are you crying about? And I was like, the vow and our children and you. I mean, he literally has to talk me off the ledge of like, like, Beverly, There are over 400 murders in New York a year, okay? And there's 38 precincts that are precincts dedicated to it, and there's one dedicated to this, okay? He literally has to like, really like get me off the ledge.

Because one thing I really do like about 6 is though, I feel like because they're in the head triad, logic and like statistics and facts actually can combat a lot of that. Whereas, like, for me, I'm a feeling triad and like my husband will come at me with like statistics and facts and in the Lila and I'm just like, don't want to hear it. Just want to be sad, you know, Just want to live in my anxiety for a minute. But like, I feel like a six really, like it clicks for them.

It does. This is why I teach systems and processes. I get so excited. I'm like, just do this. And then, right. So it's like, it's just awesome. I could talk about.

I know we can talk about sixs all day, but let me move on to seven. Sevens are the enthusiasts, which my husband says, hey, that's the best number. Sevens operate. They're in the head triangle, okay? And they're very, very on top of that, feeling suppressive. And on top of that, they operate in a very small spectrum of emotions and it's usually happy to very happy. They don't like to experience any pain emotionally. They don't like to experience emotional pain. They are enthusiasts. They are very big visionaries. They get you on board. They have the big vision, the exciting visions. They are the ones who are the most fun to go on vacation with. They tend to not have any anxiety. So I think sixes really enjoy sevens because to just hang out with them, they don't have a lot of anxiety. They just kind of boil forth. They are very future oriented. They are in an aggressive stance. So your fun friends who never seem to have a care in the world, who always have the good ideas, those are sevens and they really don't. They aren't trying to be snarky or give you little platitudes of encouragement. They really like, here's. Their operating is happy to really happy, ecstatic. And they don't go into that range of. They don't feel sadness and horror and fear and anxiety. They just don't have the capacity, they literally don't experience that. So, you know, sevens in health, great visionaries, great enthusiasts, they get people, they bring people together so well and work. They. I think they are really great team members or great leaders of teams as long as they have some. Some people beside them, alongside them to kind of fill in the little blanks. They are not great detail people. I live with one. Not great detail people, but cast the big vision and just really want to bring you alongside in work. Sevens tend to cast the big vision, go for it, and then they get bored and burnt out in the little details. So you really have to watch your sevens there. When they start to experience the negative emotions, they really don't like it. They really don't know what to do with it. So a lot of times sevens are also addicts because to take away the feeling, they have to replace it with something that gives you euphoria and the good things. So when, a lot of times you got to check in on your sevens when something's sad because they're trying to, like, mask it with other, like, pile really fun, good stuff on top. It's really interesting to watch a 7 in, like, moral duress or not moral and emotional duress. Like, they don't like it at all. So those are your sevens. What did you say?

They must be suffering right now.

Oh, yeah, Check on your sevens. They're not. Okay, like most of them, they can be introverts, but they're not. Mainly they're extroverts and they want. They value company and people so much. So, no, Those are your 7Z enthusiasts. We'll go real quick through eight. Nine. That way, Bev, you can ask questions regarding anything you want to because I know it's going to go long.

I know.

Okay, eights, These are the most aggressive number. Eights are the boss. They. They're the challengers is what they're called. And they are. I like to think of an 8. Just like, they can be teddy bears. Like, they can be aggressive, but at the end of the day, they have a tender heart. They're in the gut triad. So they're just going to go full force and run over you and not look back. A lot of times, a lot of great CEOs are eights. They have a hard time with people who don't appreciate confrontation. So if you're dealing with an 8, they want you to give them pushback. They want to, like, hash it out with you, right? Then they kind of think it's fun, even, like. And another number Might be sitting there like, oh, my gosh, like, they're out to get me. But they're just really like, Griffin, you know, they're just like, hey, like, I'm gonna challenge you in your beliefs. I'm gonna challenge pretty much everything you do. So eights are the most dominant number. They can be the most intimidating number. Female eights get the worst rap, in my opinion. I think they are usually like what people think are the B word. Just nasty means just there. They know what they want, and they're not really going to take any. Anything else but what they want, and they're going to go straight into it.

Yeah. So the thing with the aid and the reason why I feel like they get in females specifically is because they won't. They don't. They listen to their gut and then they make a decision and then they're, oh, that's it.

That's it. You triad. They're very future. They're in the future stance, and they're an aggressive stance. So it's like, boom. All the things. Plus they have that personality. That's just no bs and you get what you get with them. And that. That is like the most appreciative thing of an eight is you get what you get. Like, you. You don't have to guess. You don't have to second guess. They're just like, you know where you stand. And.

And for the record, you know the reason why I feel like they get. Because I know a lot of eights, and listen, I thought I was an eight for a while, but. And the reason why. And like, because you might listen to this and be like, oh, oh, I'm every number, because I felt like that too. But there's a nuance to it, right?

The six.

Sometimes I thought I was a one. I thought I was an eight and a three and a six. Right. Because sixes want to have that. Righteous. Like, I want to be right, but it comes from, you know, needing to reason the fear, and you need to, like, see the fear. But an eight, they don't. They're not afraid. They're like, whatever. Like, this is it, and come at me. They're the ones that are, like, gonna punch you in the face face and then be fine, but out of love. Because they. They can still love you, but, like, want my way or no way.

Yeah. They're not thinking about repercussions. They're not thinking relationally what this is going to do as a two would be. Because twos can also be very aggressive. They also go through an 8 in the pathway, which you can't even get into that today. Your brain will just explode. But just, you know, that's just the difference between like a two and an eight, say. Because they are not thinking relationally what. What this is doing constantly. They're just thinking about, like, how am I going to get this done and how am I going to get it done the way I know it should get done? Yeah. So there's.

I love it.

I love it too. I actually like male eights. I feel like I get along with, like, better than any other number.

What I also appreciate and love about the aid is that they don't have any of these feelings. Like, they are a gut. But because they just say what they mean and what they think at all times care about the repercussions. They're not think. They're not trapped in their brain. Like, I am like, oh, what's gonna.

Happen if I do? Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. It's just like an appreciation for them. Like, oh, I know where I stand. I know what they expect. And.

And my husband will be like, are you sure you're not an 8? Because they tend to not, you know, they'll be like, hey, do you want to come with me to the grocery store to help me? And an 8 will be like, no, I don't.

Yeah, no, I don't want to.

I don't want to. Like, they don't. They won't be like, oh, I gotta pick up my kid. No, they're just gonna say no. They're gonna say what they mean.

Yes, exactly. And count counterphobic sixes, which is what Beverly is mimicates. It's just she has that fear and that inner committee where she's constantly like, anything that happened, you know, so. Yeah. Okay, last number. Nines. Nines are the peacemakers. And nine. I love my nines because they're the most diplomatic people. They. They cringe at the thought of confrontation and dysfunction and anything that is like, in disharmony.

I'm laughing because my husband's a nine. And it's so.

I don't like that. And so, you know, they. They are incredibly great advice givers because they have this, like, bird's eye view of things that other numbers, I don't think have their gut responders. So a lot of times if they have conflict, they will have, like, visceral response to conflict. Like, all of my nine friends will be like, I was shaking all day. And I'm like, why? Like, from that email, like, and they're just like, it Felt so confrontational, and they're just like, shaking. They have like a literal, physical, visceral responses to confrontation a lot of times. So you can see that in unhealth, they are not like the two, although the two are very mistyped. But a nine doesn't exactly know. In times of stress or turmoil or like someone struggling with something, they don't always feel comfortable coming along and helping. They usually retract to avoid any weird confrontation or misunderstood feelings. Or they don't want to overstep their boundaries. They just want to, like, remain in their comfy bubble. I always say nines are creatures of comfort. They like their blankets and they like their routine and they like their people who they can count on. They don't really love new experiences because what kind of scenarios could that bring, you know, so they're really creature. What is it? Creatures of comfort.

Habit. Like their habit.

Creatures of habit. They. They just love the. The. The expected in life. So, you know, they're very thinking repressed in that way. They can, like, kind of get into a rut and a lot of times come across as lazy. Like nines really can come across as lazy and apathetic. But it's just they're like, protecting themselves from having to, like, feel conflict or something new. They just don't really thrive in those kind of scenarios.

But they're so calming. I mean, my husband is literally like, he does. He's. They're very like. Like, they're going to be the rock. They're going to be the quiet rock that no one's paying attention to. But then you're holding on.

They don't want the attention at all, you know, and that. They are also really great employees as long as you're not like, heaping all this new visionary stuff on them and not giving them any direction to figure it out for themselves, you see. So, yes, but the nines in my life are like, literally the best, best friends when it comes to, like, here's the advice. Because they're just so, like, confident in. In seeing it from all angles and then just like dropping it down and. And they do it in such a kind way. I don't know. Nines are just like the best deliverers of bad news.

I mean, I also love. I mean, my husband is fascinating, and this is probably partly due to his job, but like, he. He'll go into a party and he will not say a word, but then afterwards, he will know every single conversation that happened. He'll be able to, like, decipher it. He. He Can. And sometimes you won't be able to do it in that moment, but like the next day he'll be like, well, I really think this person needs to do blah, blah, blah, blah. Because he was processing whatever he heard and I was like, they didn't even talk to you.

But they are, they're like, they're those like really intuitive wise is counsel is a lot of times nines in health. Nines. Nines and unhealth can be kind of lazy and apathetic and not as action oriented. So you know, that can create some issues sometimes. But in their health, operating man, you want like just to be surrounded by a lot of nines. They're awesome.

They also go on healthy six. Right. So, you know, we can't talk about it on this, you know, but like they are on that six track. So sometimes my husband will be up at night being like, I'm and not six. Like I am like catastrophic six.

But like just the stress and anxiety.

Yeah. Like if he's. If he like, you know, we had the snow's melting on our roof and so he's like, oh no, what if we have to get a whole new roof? What if we have to blah, blah, blah. You know, so he's not like keeping up on it, but he'll automatically like go to worst case.

Yes. Yes.

Okay.

Yes. The pathways of. There's triangles of pathways of numbers which we just can't even talk about. But yeah. A6, A6, A9 will often operate in that stress place.

Yeah. When they feel stress, like when feeder to the fire. Because each number. And so now here, one of the things too that I just want you to clarify, you know, oftentimes when we're talking about this stuff is that people are still different. Right. And you can. Can have different personalities and still.

Totally. Yes, yes. So yeah. And I think that's really important to note. Thanks for saying that like, because you know, the, the tendency will want to be like, well, Nikki said she's the three, but I'm nothing like her. And that's the, that's the like greatness of the Enneagram is you don't have to look. It's not monolithic. It's not like, that's why it's not Myers Briggs or another personality test where you're like, oh, they're just extroverted, you know, like, no, you can be like, I'm a very like low capacity 3. I like a lot of my friends literally get like five hours of sleep or threes and they will like Read and record their selves on a book because they've all written books and they're just like really high achievers, like, doing stuff all the time. I'm like, you know what? I do one thing a day that's productive, and the rest of the day just. It's all up to me. Maybe I'll take a nap. You know, maybe our Marco Polo. Beverly. I don't know what else the day can handle, but I'm over here just chilling because I did one really productive thing, and I just operate well in that. But my. The core of me is still like, I want to succeed and I want to be the best, and I want people to admire me.

Yeah. So people do show up differently. So it's exactly like. It's not like, oh, I'm like that. I'm, you know, I'm not like, Beverly. I don't stress about sex trafficking.

Not many people do, but Beverly is in that category. But don't. You still might be a 6 if you don't worry about that.

Yeah, but it was, you know, it's very, you know, it can be very powerful, but it's a little different. Just powerful, too. Like, you know, when you're working with your clients, because as you start listen for cues, like, you don't necessarily have to be like, are you.

What's your enneagram number?

Like, if you.

I mean, I am.

Like, if I'm working with someone, I'll ask them because I. It's so insightful because I know how to connect.

Like, are you a five? Oh, okay. Know what I'm dealing with now. But. And I do think it's important to say that too, Beverly. Like, just not to label people. When you get into this, it's really hard not to be like, that's so six of you, Beverly. I feel like just dismiss it all or I do that to my husband all the time. I'm like, wow, you're really like 7ing out right now. But that's not helpful to, like, throw labels on them. Because ultimately what you want to do as trainers, as people who are teaching high level things, you know, you want to bring people alongside. So just kind of knowing if they don't know, you can kind of like get to know the enneagram. So you can kind of like just have it in the back of your mind that it's different for somebody who's at three and somebody who's a five. You know, you're gonna have very different struggles in that area.

Absolutely. You know, and this word gets Tossed around a lot, so I'll be cautious in using it. But like a six can't. And I have a seven wing. So this is, you know, you had, you know, we didn't even get to talk about wings. Wings today. But like you might have like two. You know, I'm a six and I have that seven wings. So I'm, I tend to, you know, I tend to live like a 7. Similar ask components of a 7. However, that toxic positivity does not do well for a six. Like when I'm working through something, you have to give me the space to work through the worst case scenario scenarios. You can say to me, like, no, no, Beverly, just be positive. Be positive. And I know it sounds weird coming from me because I tend to be like a very positive thinker. I always look for the good, but I still. You, you have to let me live in the process.

You have to arrive there on your own. Yeah, yeah. And so Beverly was talking about the wings. So every number on either side of your number. So I'm a three. So on either side of me, there's a two and a four. And oftentimes you can lean to one of those, which will also kind of change a lot of things for you. So, you know, if you're a three with a two wing, you kind of are a pretty. Like, your profession is probably something that really wants to help people and teach people. You don't mind being on stage and being a present, being a personality. Whereas if you're a three wing, four, you're a little more withdrawn and you can relax in your feelings. I really go a lot to my. For where I'm like, I did one really productive thing a day that doesn't define me. It doesn't make me good or bad. But I'm going to like go chill and listen and like strum my guitar and just blow the rest of the day away. Because I just feel like doing that, you know, so you can kind of take on characteristics of that either number on either side of you. So that's kind of what she's saying. But yeah, so just imagine like for Beverly, for a six, the worst thing you can do for a six, if you're teaching them, training them, trying to get them results, is to pat them on the head and tell them it'll be fine. Right. Is that true? Would you say like that, you know.

That'S why I was like, toxic positivity. When someone's just like, you need to be positive, it's like, no. Like, let me practice process it let.

Me think it through and then I'm.

Gonna come to that.

Yeah.

Like, give me that space in the room. Like, that's why, you know, I love my husband. I mean, I love my husband for many reasons, but, like, he literally, most people, if I was like, you know, you know, when he looks over at me crying, he's gonna work me through it and actually, like, say, like, okay, well, logically, this is what is gonna happen, as opposed to what most people would do would be like, are you that. Are you crazy right now?

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And so I just think that's why I love this tool. It's just so amazing to, like, be able to identify, like, this isn't going to work for this person. You know what I mean? And, like, same with Beverly. Like, if you're working with the seven, who are the relentless, not, like, toxic positivity? I like, relentless. Positivity is my term for it.

I love that.

That's. I love that. Relentlessly positive. So me coming at him or somebody else or a client who's a seven and being like, you know, bringing all the negative juice to them at first, that is just going to shut them down totally. So you have to come at a seven with a totally different energy. You have to find yourself, even if you're like, bro, like what? Like, you gotta find it in yourself to approach them with that positive note. Positive. No. Positive. No. Let's do some positive reinforcements. You know, let's talk about the positive things that you do. And then, you know, if you need to splice in some of the less than stellar stuff, it has to be done in little chunks.

Yeah. So good. And it's just such a powerful tool. Okay. We could talk for like 12 years, but I've got to get my kids kids. So, Nikki, thank you so much for coming. Teach. Where can my people find you and learn more about you?

Yeah, you can go to my Instagram. It's underscore, Nikki, and I, CKI Wilson. Underscore, Underscore, Nikki Wilson. Underscore. And then I have in my bio, my podcast, the Crazy Confidence podcast, and other ways you can find me.

Okay, cool. And we'll link all that up. So thank you for hanging out with me. Today was so fun.

You're the best six ever.

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