Finding the Perfect Athletic Fit with Jake Boly

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 166. Today I'm sitting down with Jake Bowley, and we're talking all about finding the perfect athletic fit. Are you ready? Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance and movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up, coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and I am super pumped to get this episode out to you. Jake and I had so such an amazing conversation. Well, first, we didn't realize how many connections that we had in common and how we have parallels in our life, including he's from St. Louis and my husband's from St. Louis. So there's some inside jokes in there that we share inside of this episode. Honestly, it was such a fun, really passionate and educational, entertaining podcast. Jake is the founder of that Fit Friend, a training shoe and apparel resource, a certified strength and conditioning specialist. He's now based in Denver, Colorado, but came from New York, which is where I live, and we talked a lot about the joys of Manhattan versus the space in Denver. He also holds a master in sports science and a bachelor's in exercise science. I love how Jake shares in this episode how he went from winning two national championships dancing shirt shirtless on Live with Regis and Kelly, and how that actually brought him to New York and how his life and career has changed over times. One of my favorite things about this podcast episode is just that it is so clear how passionate Jake is about what he does and helping people find the best fits in apparel and also in their strength and conditioning life, and also business and how he has become resourceful and honestly an incredible business business owner and shares a lot with his people and his community. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. What's up, Jake? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you?

I'm good. Thanks for having me. It's a beautiful Tuesday here in Denver.

That's amazing. So I'm in New York, and Jake and I were just before we hit record, we were just shooting the shit about all things business and fitness. So I'm quickly hitting record. So that we can just go ahead and dive in and continue the convers. So for those of you who have not heard about Jake's awesome work, Jake, I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

For sure. Yeah. So I have been a coach now for 10 years, but that's not actually my full time gig anymore. I was full time trainer, full time coach. Realized I didn't really like it that much because my whole dream in life was to be a fitness editor, like a men's health. So while pursuing my bachelor's and master's in exercise science and sports science, I was also actively building out like the gym. I worked for his blog. I was actively looking for more riding positions. So long story short, to give you the nitty and gritty to kind of like catch you up to speed, started as a trainer, shifted into editorial, was recruited eventually by Vitamin Shop Corporate, worked there for a few months, then was recruited by Barbin, which is a strength sports startup. Basically helped them build for four years and then was eventually burnt out and was like, why am I building content for other people? Why didn't I just do this for myself? Now I run a training shoe and apparel review site and YouTube channel where I also share fitness content here and there, mostly on YouTube. And I still coach clients on the side, but my main babies are the site and the channel. I think those are the best platforms for growth and that's kind of what I'm most passionate about. I always wanted to dive into some form of design work and stuff and we could dive in and unpack that later because as a kid that was kind of beat out of me by my dad and uncle. But it's kind of cool, like coming full circle and now working that editorial side, blending fitness and then blending this like subconscious like design work and dream that I've always kind of had. So it's like really right on the money for my niche and it's taken a long freaking time to find it, but that's what I'm doing these days.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Okay, so I want to dive a little bit into. You said you're focusing on YouTube and the website, so can you share? You started to share before I hit record because I was like, let me hit record. Can you share a little bit about why you specifically picked these platforms?

Yeah, I mean, it really depends on your goals as a coach, trainer, or just content producer. But in terms of building, I think a fruitful business Especially one that can stand the test of time and not rely on algorithm changes and whatnot. YouTube and Google are much more consistent. Like obviously there are a bunch of algorithm updates here and there. Like they do big updates like I believe it's quarterly for most Google crawls and then YouTube is obviously owned by Google. So a lot of the ways you search on both of those platforms are very similar, but the changes aren't so drastic. It's not like Instagram where for months you could be taking off and then all of a sudden they tweak something and you're dead. So that is why I like those platforms and in regard to like what I do for like reviews, those are the platforms where you can build the best organic traffic, the best organic leads in regard to folks reading your content. And then that in the long term can be easily scaled just by building onto it. It's like with anything, it's like a snowball effect where it's like it's very tough to get started when building a site and been building a YouTube channel. But if you can kind of weather Those first like 6 to 12 months of suck and like realizing like this is not going to make any money, like it's, it is what it is. But then like you keep building, you keep amassing like this volume of content, that's where that I think the depth of the business is actually grow and lead.

So you mentioned two tracks and I'm, I'm curious how you've integrated them both inside of your business is because for YouTube there is that affiliate and actually being a content creator track where you actually get paid by the platform and by the product products that you are affiliating with as well as using YouTube as a lead generator for your business. Are you using both simultaneously or are you sticking to one?

Yeah, so I'm using both simultaneously and you're asking basically like how I'm integrating in YouTube with the site itself.

Sort of almost like you can YouTube will actually pay their content creators. And if you're doing affiliate marketing, essentially where you are doing reviews on specific things, you'll also get paid by purchases or paid by the actual brand. And as well as you know, using YouTube to be like download my thing or come, you know, apply to work with me, like a lead gen for your actual business.

Gotcha. Yeah, so the way I use YouTube now is I don't necessarily do sponsored content, I don't do paid reviews. Basically I'll do sponsored content here and there. Like I'm starting to actually dabble into that world because I'm actually big enough to where companies are like, hey, we'll pay you to make a cool video with this. I'm like, sweet. As long as it's not like a paid review, I'm totally open for it. So I will use YouTube as a means to an end on that front. I'll also use it to help kind of boost reviews on the site because it can be very competitive on Google, as many know if you've ever tried to build a blog. But something that I think is really useful, especially in my line of work, is tying those two platforms together. Because YouTube highlights that you're an individual, you are an actual person, you're a personality tied to this. And now will I have affiliate like basically like options to buy through all of those reviews? Yes, but that's not necessarily like one off, like one on one relationship with these companies. Basically you sign up for like affiliate networks and then you could drop links within and just disclose like, hey, there's an affiliate link here. If you don't buy it, that's cool. If you do, sweet, makes a couple bucks. But that's not like the bread and butter in regard to how I make money, you know, like there are a lot of review sites and stuff that do paid reviews and they don't always disclose that. And I think that's kind of fucked up. But basically it's a means to an end, to, number one, elevate the organic content I'm building and make people aware of the brand that fit Friend, which is the site and the channel. And then also I use it as a means to an end, just to connect with the community. Because I think that's the best part of building a business in this day and age of reviews. Because I think more and more people are phasing out of like trusting the men's Health, the Shape.com, because you have writers who really don't know what the fuck they're doing writing about stuff that they don't know what the fuck they're even writing about. Like, don't even get me started on. Don't even be started on this rant because I go off. But to answer that, basically it's a means to an end, to really help build the personality of the brand and just to connect with more folks of the community. I don't rely on YouTube money by any means, and I never want that to be the case. I don't like to rely on social media for money. But it is a nice little decent bump every month. But it's not a make or break for the business, so to speak.

Love it. Okay, so can you share a little bit? Share with us about the Fit Friend, which is the site. So tell us a little bit about what the site is, what your intention was when you first started to create it, and how. How did you. How did you make that leap?

Yeah, so when I left Barb End, I actually had no intention of starting that fitfriend. I was like, I was so burned out of that style of content. Um, and I was, like, angry all the time at that job towards the end of it, and I couldn't figure out why. Lo and behold, it was because, like, I was giving all of my energy and creative energy to somebody else and not doing it for myself. Much better mind space now. Much less angry and depressed. But when I left Barbin, I basically started, like, I started a business with my buddy Ojin Loki. He runs the Instagram page Physique. If you are plugged in at all in the fitness world, you've probably seen, like, his pink drawings. Like, the pink guy, he, like, has no face. He's like, whatever, the science driven guy. And yeah, we started a business. We had this idea of, like, starting this, like, cool, like, subscription training and nutrition service. And long story short, it like, crashed and burned after like six months. It was very difficult to do. Um, it's still alive and it's still a little bit of. But it's very much like we don't sink any time and energy into it. Him and I had very different visions. Loved the man to death, and it was such a great experience. But I started, like, basically chipping at that fit friend in the meantime, while I was doing that with him. Just like, very passively writing an article or two, maybe three a week. Just like, I realized, like, okay, I really miss this content. Like, I really miss shoes and, like, working with shoes, testing shoes, and like, kind of building this platform around shoe reviews and whatnot. And so I started chipping on it. And then probably like four or five months into it, that was when Physique Lab, like, the business I started with Ogyn, kind of was like, pettering out. And him and I were like, we have different visions for what we want to do in life. So I was like, okay, like, fuck, I guess I'll start, like, really chipping on this because I really enjoy this. And started chipping. Kept going, kept going. And then six to eight months in, it started bringing in a notable amount of revenue. And I was like, okay, there's something here. And then I just pretty much turned on the gears and went full into that fit friend. And basically it's a full on hub for training shoe reviews, weightlifting shoe reviews, running shoe reviews here and there. I'm not like an avid runner, so I don't dive in super niche because I only have so much bandwidth to train as a natural athlete in the context of CrossFit, cross training, lifting and running. And then I also do apparel reviews because I noticed that my biggest gripe with a lot of the media companies in review industry right now is that a lot of the content is written by writers who really don't have a background in the trade. And that's an issue for me. So it's like you have writers writing about training shoes who have never coached anybody who don't really actually test the shoes. They're given the shoes, sometimes not even given the shoes by some of these bigger media companies that are said, okay, write about this model. It's trending really well. Plug it in. And that's like if you go to any shoe review and you notice that there's stock photos from the company's page and it's not physically people testing them or like any, any sign of media, that is actually the person slash reviewer plugging that in, like run. Because that is an article written by somebody who has probably never even tested the product. And that's an issue for me. So my whole idea is to kind of like elevate the review game in the sense that we need to start, I think, including more personality into these reviews. We need to actually start showing what we're doing and giving more of a look behind the curtains into like how we're testing things, how we're actually reviewing things, what we're doing with the physical product. Because I'm super frugal and with how many different options there are now, which is awesome because there are so many small businesses, it's really difficult to find the right product. And so by tying my coaching background basically and like my background as an athlete and then bridging what I know in the reviews game because I've been reviewing shoes now for over five years. It's been really fun to kind of like help shine more context into this world that is constantly abused by these big media companies just trying to make.

Affiliate money, that is so good. So now, I mean, I have so many questions because, you know, one of the things is that with the shoes specifically, was that accidental or were you, did you have any background in, you know, in your athletic world, in life like, did you have trouble with shoes or was it something that you just were, you know, almost accidentally fell upon?

So when I was working at Barbin, we started diving into different product categories. And one of the ones that I wanted to do and start was cross training shoes and weightlifting shoes. Those were also, like, categories that they wanted to integrate into the site. So it's kind of like this nice, harmonious. Like, it was something that interested me, but it was also something that they wanted to build upon. So it was kind of like this meshing of two things. Number one, I find it super interesting how different shoes can have wholly different feels and fits for different people because we have to consider the different anatomy of our foot, we have to consider our background in training, what we prefer, and everything else. And I think that's what's so interesting about it. It's like training. It's like I get to nerd out with the training contextual brain, where we get to look at all these different layers, but then blend that into shoes, which is like two sweet interests of mine. And then, yeah, it was kind of like this harmonious blending of these two different things that just kind of like, felt right to do, you know, it's hard to explain, but it's one of those things that, like, I might not always enjoy writing about shoes, but at the end of the day, I'm like, this is fucking awesome. This is so cool to be able to do in this.

That is so cool. Okay, so now you know, because to me, when I. And I said I was going to ask you about it because I'm curious, how did you go from dancing with no shirt on in Regis and Kelly to completely letting that go. Like, how did you. How did you even get there, first of all, to like, letting. Letting all that go.

So, like, the. How did I end up on Regis and Kelly?

Yes.

So. Oh, man. So I had. I had visited. So I'm from St. Louis, Missouri, and like, from the age.

Where did you go to high school?

Timberland. It's such a typical Missouri ask. By the way, for any listener, if you're from St. Louis, the first question is, where'd you go to high school? And then you get silently judged based off of where you went. Okay.

That is why I had to ask him. So he knew that I have. My husband's from St. Louis.

Nice.

And so anytime. I mean, I do not understand. It is so bizarre to me that they would actually ask that. It's so random. But without a shadow of doubt, I have yet to meet someone from St. Louis, Missouri, that doesn't ask that question.

Yeah, it's. It's such a. It's such a weird thing. But in regard. In regard to Regis and Kelly, basically, like, from the age of, like, 16, 17 on, my whole dream was to live in New York City and work as an editor, as stated earlier. So I had visited New York my senior year, summer, whatever, the summer following my senior year of high school with my mom, aunt, and little brother. And they love Regis and Kelly and whatnot. So it was like. It was literally one of the best days of my life, by the way. So the day started with us going and, like, waiting in line at Regents and Kelly to go, like, get seats or whatever. If I was walking in, this guy's like, hey. I was like, what's up? He's like, do you want to dance shirtless on the surfboard in front of Regis and Kelly for, like, the intro? And I was like, sure. So he brought me backstage. I got to, like, basically wear this, like, long wig because it was, like, wig or hair week or whatever. Regis and Kelly and I was dancing shirtless on the surfboard during the intro. And, like, we just made a comment about my abs and, like, Kelly low key, like, hit on me a little bit. I was like, this is fucking awesome. So I went backstage, then met, like, Josh Dumbel, who's the guy from Transformers, met John Hurley from Seinfeld, I believe he is. He's in. And then after that, because this is just. I'm on a tangent now. So after Regents of Kelly, like, I was on cloud nine. I'm like, this is so sick. Like, New York City is for me. So I was like, mom, like, I'm going to go to the Rodale offices, the publisher of Men's Health, Women's Health, and whatnot at the time. And I was like, I'm gonna go in there and ask about internships. Like, mind you, I'm a high school. I haven't even gone to college yet. So I walked. I walked to this office, not having a fucking clue. And the guy at the security desk is like, dude, you can't just go up there like you're a kid off the street. Like, you don't have an appointment. So then I'm like, oh, okay. And the receptionist ended up walking by, and I basically ended up like, giving her my whole spiel and life story, whatever. And she invited me up. So I got to go talk to, like, the PR guy at Men's Health at the time. And that was, like, pretty much, like, sold so, long story short, on a tangent, it was an interesting day in New York City that eventually would lead me and, like, drive me to, like, make my whole identity into this move. Eventually out to New York, where I would eventually live for, like, eight to nine years.

I'm in New York.

Yeah, I know. I heard you say Manhattan. Yeah. I'll be back. I'll be back in about a week. For two weeks, actually.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

I lived in Denver.

Pandemic. So when the pandemic hit, I was living in Lower east side at the time. My girlfriend was Little Italy. During, like, March, like, that peak moment. We were like, all right, we're getting out of here. So we left and went to Missouri to stay with my parents for a few months. And before that, like, we had visited Denver a couple, like, the year prior, and we're like, this is a pretty sweet spot. So kind of having those few months of separation from New York kind of helped us realize, like, okay, why are we spending this much to be trapped in an apartment? So we kind of, like, made that pivot and left, because paying $2,000 for 300 square feet is no bueno. And also, I was starting a business at the time, too. So I was like, I don't want to start a business in New York where I can't be social, where I have all these restrictions. So it was a lot easier to be like, let's try out Denver for a few years and see where we go from there. I miss New York, but at the same time, I only miss the social aspect. I don't miss the prices and everything else. I like to go out and party, so I like that aspect, and I miss that aspect. But I'm not necessarily, like, wanting to be back so soon. If I don't, I'm not necessarily working there. You know what I'm saying?

I do. I do know what you're saying. So I live, you know, I live in Westchester, so I'm not. I'm in New York. I'm no longer. Yeah, I'm no longer in Manhattan, although I went there for an event, and I. Yeah, I miss it. I miss it, too, for the same reasons, but also I laugh. That's why I was laughing, because it's so true. You pay so much money for a corner.

Yeah, I literally paid. Still, one of my biggest regrets, I should not have paid my rent during the pandemic times, because we weren't even there for four months, and I paid over $8,000 in rent, and I wasn't even Living in the apartment, I'm like, I should have just not paid. Like, what would they have done? I mean, like, my landlord was so sketchy. Like, it wouldn't have mattered.

So true. Okay, so, I mean, that is a huge catapult. So I'd love for you to circle back, too, because you were talking. You talked a little bit about how you have gone back to what you've always wanted to do, but it had been beaten out of you essentially, you know, from. You know, from. And I know that it comes from a good heart in the sense that they just wanted you to be successful and not struggle. And so I know that it wasn't necessarily, you know, harmful. However, with that type of conditioning, I'm certain there have been lots of, you know, unlearning that you had to really go through to go all in and say yes to yourself. So what was. What was that process like for you?

Yeah, and I mean, you hit the nail on the head, because I don't want to like, this story to be like, oh, like, that guy's dad is a dick. He's not a dick. He's just like. He's just like the college football Midwestern dad. So, long story short, when I was younger, we were going fishing one weekend. I was in the truck with my dad and uncle, and I was like, oh. They were asking us what we wanted to be when we wanted to grow up. And I was like, 8 years old at the time, and I was like, oh. I said. And they're like, what do you want to be? I was like. I said I wanted to be a designer. And for, like, what? Like, spaceships and stuff? Like, something cool? And I was like, no, for, like, clothes and shoes and stuff. And like, they both were like, what are you, a sissy? Like, that's like, really? And so, like, in my, like, animal man head from the Midwest, I'm like a fucking kid. I'm like, well, no, I don't want to be a sissy. I want to be like, I want to do manly things. So it took a while, I think, to kind of unpack that and realize that. And I actually didn't really sit on that until about a year ago when I was doing this and I was making money doing it. And I was like, fuck you guys. Because it took me a minute to be like, wow, this is probably what I've wanted to do for so long, or at least the industry or world that I wanted to play in for so long. And I didn't realize at the time that I Kept getting drawn back to this world probably because of like some deep rooted want from earlier on in life that I just probably hadn't really come to fruition with or realized until I was actually in it, making money and like had some time to slow down and really think about like what am I actually doing with my life? Am I enjoying this? I am enjoying this. Why am I enjoying this? And kind of unpacking some of those aspects that I feel like a lot of us get it in our heads as kids about from our, our elders.

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. So when you. So you said that you have now in your reviews you've been able to integrate the, the design components. How specifically?

Yeah, I think there are always areas in different shoes where it's like I try to recognize the context behind the construction of it and it helps that I've reviewed so many shoes and because it just gives me such a breadth of context of different fits, feels different materials basically used. And while it's like obviously I'm not a shoe designer, I'm not as like prowess around the shoe as like a true hypebeast who like this is like their whole life and they've been doing it for literally 20 years. It's really cool being able to identify like the different layers of context where different shoes fit and like also giving suggestions to companies when they do ask about creating better models. And that's happened on a few occasions where they're like oh like what do you think? I'm like, well this material is okay. It ripped here because of this movement. Like this movement I think could be an issue for some folks. And lo and behold that's usually what you'll see in like other users reviews. So it's really cool like having that depth of knowledge. And that's also my gripe with other review sites where it's like they build this like best cross training shoe roundup. And it's like you have a writer who hasn't tested every shoe. How are you actually going to make any suggestion on the performance, design and whatnot of the model if you have no depth of knowledge into these other shoes? So being able to like give suggestions and also just call out specifics on different models is kind of like my way of implementing that level of almost design without having to physically build shoes? Because I have looked into that and it's very expensive. It's like 5 to 10k for just a prototype and that is potentially including reiterations, sometimes not. And with like supply chain issues now with this Day and age. Like, I just don't think I'd want to go into that industry yet. I will eventually, I think, but it.

Will not be soon, you know. So you mentioned, it's very interesting because you were very passionate and mentioned the fact that if you are reviewing the shoe, you have to have context to know exactly. You have to review the shoe, feel the shoe, experience the shoe. Do you feel the same way about designers? Like, do you think that designers need to be lifters if they are designing lifter shoes?

Absolutely. 100, 100%. And like my favorite example from the last couple of years of this is like the Nike Saviles. They're a weightlifting shoe. They have a lower heel height, 0.6 elevation. So they're marketed as like this kind of like hybrid shoe where you get a little bit of elevation, you get like that weightlifting shoe fit and feel. But it's a slightly more like compressive insole in some ways. So it's not as like sturdy or stable as like a Ramalaya or a legacy lifter too. So you can use them, quote unquote, in some cross training, cross training workouts if you want. And my favorite example is like, when that shoe launched on Nike's product page, it had like, people like doing like curls with like bands and stuff. And I'm like, what are you doing? Like, this is a weightlifting shoe. Like, can you not show a squat? A clean, like literally anything else? Like anything besides a home workout with some freaking bands? Because that makes no sense. So my gripe is always there. Like, there are smaller companies who really nail it. And that's why I love some of the smaller companies that are emerging in the cross training shoe and weightlifting space because they are people like you and myself who are just so integrated into fitness and it's like their full passion. But then you have bigger companies like the Nikes and stuff where it's like, all right, I get weightlifting shoes aren't your bread and butter and they probably don't make you that much money, but can you at least hire somebody who has a fucking clue? It makes no sense. It makes no sense at all. So I don't think every company has that issue, but there are definitely some of the larger companies who I think take it for granted, like some of the specificity that comes along with one strength sports, but then also the biomechanics that come along with those sports in regard to how their shoes are going to interact with training.

I also think that the larger companies, for better, for worse, is that, you know, they have the burden of, of influence and a great responsibility to the people who are paying attention to them. And if they're not, if they're discrediting, discrediting it or not valuing that type of influence that they, on the marketplace, then it, it reflects in things like this because then people, you know, people, they have authority and they don't have to spend the time building it up because it's already assumed, which is unfortunate.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, that's an issue too. I have with some of the bigger companies where it's like every year they have to roll out this new model. It's all innovative and, like, has all these new features. And it's like you have so many people who are like, like, why did you change this? Like, you had a good thing going. And I do, I do get it. But I think there's a way that they could play in both worlds. They could build that next innovative model for the folks who want that new, new and they want to try something new. But then, like, let's roll back some of the older models in small batches and keep some of the actual diehard strength athletes who really love a certain type of shoe for specific reasons, like, happy. So it's a pipe dream, but it's often like a common string of comments that I often have with other folks on YouTube about older models where it's like, cool, you guys had a really great shoe and then you fucking broke it. Sweet. And you're not going to roll back the older model. Oh, cool. Cool. Great. Now I have to find a full, different shoe that fits and works.

You just described the entrepreneur experience, though. That's exactly what people do all the time. They build things and then they tear it down to just rebuild it 100%. So I'm curious, in your opinion, in your expert opinion, what are some of your most underrated, highly valuable brands and shoe prototypes that don't get enough visibility?

Yeah. So a couple of the smaller companies that I have been really enjoying for CrossFit and cross training. So if you are primarily doing CrossFit workouts and if you plan to lift pretty heavy, use your shoe for cross training. Two smaller companies that I've really enjoyed that I think need way more attention, like the Nike metcon, the Reebok Nano is number one rad shoes. So the rad one, it's a freaking awesome cross training shoe and it's awesome for CrossFit. Um, strike movement makes some pretty good shoes as well. So the strike movement Haste trainer is one of My go to cross trainers for lifting, cross training and some more casual CrossFit work. Um, and then in regard to like more hit style trainings, more athletic style trainings, I've really been enjoying the York Athletics Frank trainer. That's one of the models that I've reviewed recently that has been like, I've kept seeing it and it looks really cool and I was like, I'm going to finally invest in it and get one in for review. And it's been stellar, it's been great. I can wear it on a daily wear basis. It looks good, it looks classy. But then it also can perform and hold its own in the gym. So those are three smaller companies that I think are definitely worth looking into and there are so many more. And if I go to my YouTube channel, I would probably list six more models that I'm forgetting. But those are the three off the top of my head that are just really strong performers within their own respective niches.

Love that. So I'm also curious on your thoughts about this. You know, I remember training back in the day where it was this whole movement about training without shoes.

Oh God. So. So. All right, go ahead, let me hear it.

No, that's it. No, that's it. So I just curious your take on this idea and then that was when the toe thing came out.

Yeah.

Yep.

So. So I review barefoot shoes too and I love barefoot shoes. I actually have some on right now. I have on like the limbs primal too. They're very minimalist, zero drop. But my issue with barefoot shoes at the moment is the cult like verbiage that comes along with them. I am not in agreement with the folks who are like, oh, it's barefoot shoes are death. Like first off, like that doesn't work for everybody. Some people need a higher drop in their training shoes for certain workouts. So my take on this whole matter is as opposed to going to a cult like hive mind mindset, basically where it has to be all or none. Integrating in barefoot shoes in a nice strategic means that makes sense. Like a lot of people, if they just spend a little bit or in barefoot shoes every week, they'll get the benefit of building up their foot musculature, especially the intrinsic muscles. They'll get the different environment exposure that can be beneficial for exposing the foot and ankle to different ranges of motion and movement. But my issue of saying like, oh, you need this for everything, like that just doesn't work for everybody. And it's such a short sighted way of looking at it. And I think Some of these coaches who are like, oh, you need barefoot shoes. That's it. Like you get, you guys aren't seeing the bigger picture. Like, I'm not going to give my fucking mom a pair of barefoot shoes when she's very recreational, very beginner and like she needs shoes with some arch support. Like, could she walk barefoot more? Sure. So let's start her there versus saying like, oh, you need this and only this. So my issue there is not necessarily with the whole minimalist barefoot shoe movement at the moment. It's the verbiage that comes along with it, which we often see in fitness too. When it comes like these cult like mindsets where it's this way or the highway, it's like, no, let's look at them instead as strategic tools. If you really like them and if they work really well for your anatomy and how you're built, sick, like, use them. But don't fucking just go to somebody and say, oh, you're not doing this correctly or you're ruining your feet because of this. That's not painting the full picture and it's building up emotional biases towards footwear that don't need to exist. Very, very passionate.

Yeah, no, this is so good. I mean, I have a lot of questions about this because, you know, I think too with at least the general population or the end user, the end consumer for coaches, essentially, they, I mean, I know I can speak for me as a coach. I've never even thought one moment that my shoe really mattered. Besides, runner shoe or, you know, flat or barefoot was essentially the extent of what I thought about SHU and how it even alters my performance because people don't know what they don't know. And most people are walking around in the I'm fine coma. So what are some of the, you know, red flags or missed, you know, assign, you know, red flags or things that people can start paying attention to regarding their footwear and making decisions on, oh, maybe if I, you know, just changed my shoe, my knee would stop hurting. You know, I'm curious on some of those things.

So I think one of the, one of the main red flags, especially on social media, is the verbiage being used. Anything that's coming off as like all or none or you have to do this or you're ruining this. And it's very grandiose language that's typically a red flag because that to me doesn't paint the full picture of what's going on. Especially like in the case of what you just said, it's like like let's say we have an athlete who's doing CrossFit workouts. Are we really going to stick them into a barefoot shoe when they've never even had that type of exposure of stress on their foot and ankle? No. Are we really going to stick a tall lifter into a barefoot shoe who might lack the mobility in their ankle and hips to properly do squats with a zero drop? No. So there are ways to approach that that are, do they basically don't need to be all or none. Another red flag would be any type of verbiage that is typically hit with a soft sell at the end of it. So a good example here, and I'm not going to name drop, are people who push barefoot shoes so heavily and they're like, this is all the benefits and this is why you need it for everything. And then it's like, oh, I realize this company's paying you on the back end. Of course you're pushing Vevo Barefoot to be primal and all that fucking bullshit. It's like they're paying you, you're getting a fat affiliate kick out of that. So it's, it's, it's the lack of acknowledgement that like, hey, these are more like tools to build onto being a well rounded athlete in regard to like having strong feet, having good range of motion in the ankles, permitting your anatomy and whatnot. But there is no like one size fits all approach to this. And that's what's very frustrating about the, the cults that typically surround barefoot shoes and other footwear at that. But, but you're seeing it most, I think in barefoot shoes at the moment. Just because that's the ebb and flow of social media.

Social media, the pressure container no one knew that they were going to have to deal with.

It's insane. It's insane. It's just an echo chamber. It really is.

Well, like most things, there is good and bad to everything, right? It's a tool. A tool is a tool is a tool and it's usually the energy behind the tool that is going to elicit the outcome still in it becomes our job and responsibility essentially to navigate these waters, in my opinion. Okay, so I also would love to hear your take on when someone, an end user, not just a coach, is experiencing or has a shoe. Like, how do they know if this is going to be something that works for them or not if they have no context for what's good?

Yeah, so I mean there's, there's, there's so many different ways to answer this. Question. Um, I think probably the best way is, number one, assessing the comfort of the shoe when you're training. Like, is the shoe potentially causing discomfort in other areas when you're training, and is it comfortable for your foot? Basically, like, do you feel like you have to sacrifice your comfort for the way the shoe is fitting? If so, then exploring other models might be really important. When a company builds a shoe, there are, like, hundreds of last constructions that they basically try to pick from. And basically, the last construction is the mold of the shoe. And different lasts will fit different foot anatomies differently. So wider forefoot, wider midfoot, flatter foot, higher arches, lower arches, et cetera, they're all going to basically interact with your foot differently. So when you have athletes who I think, like, try to force their foot into a style of shoe, and, like, a good example here would be, like, somebody who loves, like, Nike MetConsult and, like, they work for them, they perform okay with them, but they do have some discomfort in that model. But that's just what they know. That would be a good example of, like, somebody would be, like, okay, maybe you should try, like, a different last construction that might align with your anatomy a little bit better. Um, so comfort can be a great way of looking at that. And then also, if you do want to, like, do some a B testing, going into a store and literally putting on two models that you might be looking at on one on each foot, foot, and, like, doing a nice little walk test, doing some squats, doing a couple of, like, jumps, whatever it might be, some lunges to see. Okay, can I feel a visible difference here in between, like, the outsole midsole, how the shoe fits, and how it's allowing me to move? Because if you can notice that difference, then, cool. You now have a suggestion of the type of shoe that would work best for you. And then once you can kind of nail down these similarities between different types of shoes that work well. For example, like, if you need a shoe that has. Has a little bit of arch support and a wide forefoot, you now know what models to kind of explore and look into as you dive deeper into your search. And then obviously, outside of comfort and just assessing, like, doing some ab work and seeing what works best for you and recognizing those similarities, whatever shoe allows you to perform your best. And that circles back to, like, gripe with barefoot shoes, where it's like, I'm not going to tell an athlete who's crushing their training with a training shoe to rock a barefoot shoe when we're seeing, like, Noticeable gains. They're not having any issues with their footwear, they're noticing that their performance is increasing. Like if you're performing well, if things are moving in the right direction, then likely you don't need to change anything just yet.

How that's so good. I'm curious, you know, even with your tool, you know, or with, with the tip on, you know, different shoes for different feet to assess performance, have you noticed any type of impact on the discrepancies between, you know, the different feet? Like for example, you know, like the different. And you know, one shoe is going to feel better on a different foot because we're not symmetrical.

Yeah. And that's always one of the toughest parts, I think of these reviews because I get a lot of folks in the comments asking about, okay, what should we do best for this? And so I always try to ask follow up questions about the individual's anatomy and how they plan to train and use the shoe. And I try my best to suggest models that I think would work best in that context just based off of feedback that I've received from other users or other folks who have rocked those shoes on reviews and then kind of blending that with the similarities, interactions that I have with those models. So I try my best in that context to recommend shoes for different individuals based off of what they need and want. Obviously that is so difficult to do because it's like getting like a lifter's form video in your DMs and you're like, they're like, fix my squat. And you're like, I need like 17 more follow ups here. Um, so it's, it's similar to that, but by having like this nice ongoing list of reviews and like having all of these different notes on different models, it does make it a little bit easier to suggest like at least options for somebody. So if somebody does need a specific type of shoe and they realize that their current model isn't working for them, I'll usually give them like two to four options. And then if they want, if they're in store, they go try them on or they can order them online, try them, and then send back whichever ones don't work. And that at least gives them more of like a shotgun spray to see. Okay, cool. What type of shoe construction really works best for me as opposed to just trying to like, yeah, I'm fine, this is okay for me. And it's like, well, are you though? Like, you're like, could you could be probably better if it's like, meh, for you, you know, I'm fine.

Coma. It keeps people trapped.

It's. It's a, It's a. It's definitely a fine line. And it's very, like, complex in regard to helping people find the right shoes in that context. But with options, you get more context, you get more exposure, and it builds your breath of, like, cool. What works for me. Does this company usually work because of the last construction or does this company not. It's like a classic example of, like, Nike shoes and how they typically have that more narrow forefoot. They kind of have, like, that, what I call, like, that athletic style shoe build. And that doesn't work for everybody, and that's okay. And you don't have to, like, try to force your foot into a Nike shoe just because it's like, what, you know, so good.

What has been the most surprising, I can't believe this shoe was even made type of shoe that you have had the pleasure of reviewing.

Man. Oh, my goodness, that's tough because I, I buy a lot of the shoes I review and, like, some companies send some too, but I'd buy probably like 60 to 70% of the models. So generally, generally, I usually try to pick models that I know are, like, decent performers or at least have, like, a favorable view. So I'm trying to think if there's any shoe that's just been, like, what the actual. I do. So I will say, and like, I can't speak to the performance of this shoe because it hasn't arrived yet. It's coming Thursday. I did buy a pair of the APL Tracer models. It's a $250 training shoe. I am so curious to see if this shoe is worth that money. That's a car payment every month. So I think I'm trying to go into that review without my bias towards, this is way too expensive for a fucking shoe that you're going to beat the shit out of. But I'm curious to see how that one does. And that's a good example of why are you charging $250 for a piece of foam and neoprene that is going to get beat up in hiit workouts and lifting sessions? Like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, really, Is your. Are your materials really worth that much? Like, come the fuck on.

I mean, talk about depreciating value.

Yeah, 100%. Like, I don't know. Like, I, I, like, I'm in the party of, like, trying to be frugal and trying to make good decisions in regard to, like, Investing in shoes that can also be durable. So, like, 150 for me is like, a stretch for training shoes. Like, that is the most, like, I'm usually comfortable with paying myself. And for folks who, like, don't have the means to that, like, that is often something that I try to consider because I don't want you to invest in a shoe that's expensive. And then you're like, I hate this. Like, I never want to be that. So that is a shoe that is going to be interesting to assess. I'm curious, too. I'm going to look really fast and see if I have any of shoes that I like just have been like, what the actual heck?

While you're looking. While you're looking. How many pairs of shoes do you have? Like, what do you do with all these shoes? Do you have, like, three closets of shoes?

Pretty much, yeah. So, like, I have. I have probably.

That's really why you had to leave New York, because you had. You needed an apartment for your shoes.

I needed more room. Um, I probably have, like, I would say over eighty to a hundred pairs of training shoes right now. And, like, that includes barefoot shoes and weightlifting shoes, running shoes, too. Um, so basically, the way I work with models, like, that is after about two years when they're kind of, like, phased out of the market. I'm not doing comparison content. I'm not using them in roundups. And they've kind of, like, been stopped being made. I'll give them away or I'll donate them. So I'll either take them in big bunches and donate them to wherever, or I'll literally have people on YouTube videos who ask me questions. I'm like, what size are you by chance? And they'll be like, oh, I'm a 10. And I'll send out shoes. Like, the amount of people on YouTube that have actually sent shoes, too, it's pretty cool. But that's kind of how I keep the stash at bay in regard to not overflowing. I try to give them away or help out other people and try not to. Try not to make money off of, like. I just think that's weird to, like, sell shoes that you're reviewing. I know some people would do that. And it's like, that doesn't sit well with me. I don't know.

That's kind.

Other than that, I don't really have any review, like, I don't really have any shoes on my channel where it's been like, oh, my God, no way. Like, this is not a model for, like some of the on shoes I have gripes with in that context because they're so expensive and they're not as, as I think strong as people want to believe. But that's another bias that we could talk about. But I don't know if I necessarily have issue where it's like, avoid that model like the plague. I mean, if there was like a specific ask, I'm sure I would have something for you with models that definitely aren't so good, but I'm not. I don't have any. Cool, Interesting, interesting feedback for you there.

Not yet. Not yet.

At least it's not yet.

It's coming. So in addition to shoes, what are some of your other favorite types of apparel that you like to review?

Yeah, so I love doing short reviews. Like short training shorts are my. One of my favorite things too, to explore when I train. Like, I'm typically shirtless, and I don't do that to be a douche. I just like, I was always that kid running around in the neighborhood with literally no clothes on. So, like, when I train, I'm usually shirtless. So I don't really care about the shirts that I wear for training because I'm usually not wearing them. But shorts, on the other hand, I see as incredibly important because there are so many different apparel companies now and so many are charging a lot for products. Like, is that product actually high quality quality? Is this worth somebody's investment? Because again, circling back to the point where it's like, if I have somebody who's working a job that maybe doesn't pay that much, they're already having to strap funds to get by on their daily life. They don't need to be investing in an $80 short unless it's unbelievably good and it's going to last them a while. So shorts are a big one just because there are so many companies out there now. And also a lot of these companies, I think are charging too much for what they are in regard to their shorts and whatnot. Outside of shoes and shorts, I have been diving into, like the athletic style business casual pant. I've been really enjoying that because I don't know all about fashion, but I know that I like pants that fit me well. So when I do go out for dinner and go out to like, bars and whatnot, I want stuff to fit well. So I'm like, cool. Can this pair of pants, like, fit my quads and butt? Like, does it stretch well? Does it feel good? So that's more so Been like a. Had self interest because of I think like the design background, but also just comfort and functionality. Like I'm tired. Like I used to commute four hours a day when I was commuting from Long island to New Jersey and I wear these J. Crew pants and they were so uncomfortable because I had to wear business casual vitamin shop and it was miserable. So I like always go back to that and I'm like, never again I will find comfortable pants. That's another one that I like.

It's so funny because I actually have this pair of jeans that looks like, like leggings and I'm like, I swear I'm out of the leggings in jeans. I swear.

Yeah.

Jake, do you think that you will ever get tired of, of reviewing shoes or do you think that shoes, you know, in the next five years. Do you think he'll always be with shoes?

I'm not sure to be honest. Like the, the whole process of building that fit friend has been so fun and so cool and it's been really interesting. Like, like. Cause like the traffic, like the site's about 15 months old now and it's like hitting like 160,000 page views a month right now. And I've built that all by myself. I do all my own writing, editing, I film all my own stuff, edit all. Like it's literally been bootstrapped. And so in one year I'm like, I want to see how far I could take this. And because every year new shoes roll out. I think that's super interesting. But I don't know, like, I don't know if I'm going to burn out or not, you know, and like, I don't know the direction yet of how I want to scale the business. Whether that be like, like dive into different verticals or eventually, like, I don't know, maybe sell it to like a Conde Nast or a bigger media company. But at the same time, like, it's. It's really hard to see that because I'm so focused on the present and really just enjoying the day to day and not going nuts, trying to keep up with everything that I haven't really thought about that. It's just been like one of those things where it's like, even last month I like had like the biggest traffic month yet and I'm like, holy cow. Like this is where we're at. Like, this is sick. Um, and so I don't know, like, I don't, I can't say definitively that I won't be burnt out of shoes. I think the interest will always be there, whether that means producing content at the volume I am now in regard to also training and also just feeling beat down from all the training, I could very well be burned out based off of where I'm at in life. But I think the interest will always be there because I think I'll always have that coaching side of me and that coaching side of me business that's running. And then I also always have that interest of like design, work, apparel, shoes and whatnot.

I love it. I love it. So good. So, Jake, I really want to be mindful of your time. So for those of those of us who have not seen the pleasure of your work, where are the best places I can send them?

Yeah, the best places are number one. Just checking out the site. If you ever are in need of shoe reviews, especially within the realms of training, crossfit, weightlifting, even some running, check out the site. Or even apparel if you're a guy. I can't review women's apparel. Check out the site. That Fit Friend, if you Google it should come up right away. And then also you could check me out on YouTube. That fit friend, you could just type that in. Or Jake, that Fit Friend should pop up the channel. I'm not going to say you have to subscribe. You have to watch all the videos. But if you want to subscribe, that's super cool and check out videos that they're interesting to you. It does help. But at the same time, like I'm not going to shamelessly sit here and be like, you need to watch every video. Like, no, no, ain't nobody got time for that. Watch the videos that you have interest in and then on Instagram if you want to connect. It's just that the handle Jake underscore Boley B O L Y. And if you ever have questions on shoes and whatnot, just hit me on there. I'm usually pretty responsive and usually pretty fast to give you feedback. So don't be bashful. If you have any individual questions for shoes that would fit the context of your training and needs.

Needs. I love it. Now, do you ever do children's side.

Note, I do not. I do not have kids. I do not plan on having kids, but I do not.

I'll send you mine. You can do for my.

We'Ll call it an internship and we'll look at.

It.

Sounds like it sounds like that's child labor, Jake. No, no, no. It's an internship.

I love it. I love it. All right, Jake, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me on.

Thank you for listening to the PT Profit Podcast. If you like this episode, chances are your friends will too. So it would be a huge service to us if you would please leave us a review and share with your friends on your social media channels. When you leave us a review, be sure to take a screenshot of it and email that screenshot to my team at Info Simpson Fitness and we'll send you a very special Instagram podcast that will show you how to create compelling content so that your ideal clients come to you and you go from wanting clients to a wait list of clients ready for your services. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you on the next episode.