From Pharmacy to Fitness: Dr. Ashley Dwyer's Journey to Holistic Health

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 349. Today's episode is From Pharmacy to Fitness. Dr. Ashley Dwyer's journey to holistic Health. Are you ready? Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

Welcome back to the PT Profit Podcast. My name is Chris Little. If we have not met yet, I work behind the scenes here at both the PT Profit Podcast and B. Simpson Fitness with all of the accelerators. And I had the pleasure of introducing Beverly and Ashley to one another because I got to connect with Ashley at the Real Coaches Summit in Vegas in this past April. Time flies. So not only does Ashley bring some great energy to her social media space and to how she helps her people, but she actually has a background in pharmacy, which hence explains the Dr. Ashley Dwyer title, which I should have really said the first time. She also has experience with competitive bodybuilding. So there's a lot of things where she can relate to people and it better equips her to help her community, help her clients, and help her team in discovering the power of functional health. So as the founder of Team BDN Coaching, she helps women navigate hormonal issues, weight loss and lifestyle changes through a personalized and inside out approach and is really just making waves in her space and with the industry at large. So get ready to do a deep dive into her journey and learn how she empowers others to achieve lasting health and wellness. And if you enjoy this episode, be sure to tag Beverly and Ashley on their social media and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or five stars on Spotify. Let's roll that episode.

What's up, Ashley? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you? I'm great.

How are you?

I'm doing so good. I'm so excited to dive in today's conversation. I think it's going to be really amazing. So for those of you who are tuning in and have never been introduced to the pleasure of your work, can you share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there?

Yeah, of course. So my name is Ashley Dwyer. Dr. Ashley Dwyer. I seldom, like, use the doctor I am, you're crazy. I am originally a licensed pharmacist, so went into western medicine to, you know, help, help out in that way. I always wanted to do something in healthcare and then got pretty burnt out with the western medicine field and just kind of handing out band aids over a counter for things that I wanted to shift with lifestyle changes. And then I have also a history of like competing in bikini bodybuilding competitions and just years of undereating, overtraining and stress threw me into the hormonal hell that was my life around 27. And it wasn't until I found like functional health, where western medicine kind of failed me, for lack of a better word, that I truly found like my next passion with, with health and fitness. And so in 2020, you know, in 2018, I started my own company, which is what we have here, team media and coaching kind of behind me and then have grown that significantly since and left Pharmacy in 2020. And now we help women of childbearing age. So I like to say 25 to 45, kind of with all types of hormonal issues, lifestyle changes, weight loss, that's just the perk of it. Right. But we, we have an inside out, healthy approach and get to do it every day. And it's so much better than being behind a pharmacy counter pushing pills. Right? Yeah.

Okay. I love that. So I'm curious, can you share a little bit more so specifically about your process and what you would say is, is TR is different than what we traditionally see in the coaching space, especially in, you know, the health and fitness space.

Yeah. So what we do differently or how we even approach things is obviously we will do like an onboarding form or an application and a console call to see if you're even a good fit, how we can help you. Because there are situations where I will turn you away. You know, our team will turn you away. We're not a good fit to work with you, but if you are and you do sign up to be a client, we make, you know, everyone do a five day nutrition log before they start working with us. So I kind of already get to see where you're at, what you're eating, how much food you're technically eating. And I know it's with like a grain of salt because people who don't track, you know, it's not exactly the easiest thing to start picking up and doing, but we do utilize a macro approach in our plan and then slowly shift clients off later. But other than kind of the five day log and just seeing where everyone is, we Also can order blood work for clients. We interpret blood work, recommend different supplementation. However, I'm very also like, reluctant sometimes to put people on too many supplements. I'd rather just give you food recommendations, diet recommendations, training recommendations, and have you fix it in a lifestyle change rather than just slam a bunch of supplements on you. But we're really taking a look at what's going on inside to fix that first. And then you'll get the results you want to see on the outside and be able to keep them.

Okay, I love this. And so now I'm curious just from your perspective, since, you know, we live in the world of the Internet, which the, the, one of the downsides of the information age is that there are just so many different approaches and, and all can work and some can be harmful and some can be not. And sometimes it's just really hard to navigate what's going to work for you as a, and for you as a coach and defining your approach and then for clients as well. So I am curious, you know, you, you had mentioned that you, you use a macro plan approach, especially for your clients when they're first coming on board. But that can sometimes be controversial. And like, what about intuitive eating? And how do you decide or determine if someone needs to, you know, build basic habits first of just add more versus straight into counting. Especially given your background in bodybuilding, which it was literally like suck lettuce or, you know, don't drink water before you.

It was crazy. Yeah, I wish I had macros back in my competing days, if I'm going to be super honest with you, like, I wish we had them back then. I will say I definitely agree with you on there being so many approaches and there is no one size fits all right. Which is why I constantly harp like individual plans, customized plans, like, stop with the cookie cutter, one size fits all crap. The reason we do use macros, though, is because it's a tool. It's not really a plan. Right. So you can use it with any diet approach. And a lot, A lot. We generally work with women. So I'm gonna say women, a lot of women were never taught how to eat, how much to eat, how much protein to eat. So when we actually are able to quantify it and we're actually able to see what a table, like a serving size looks like, like, if you wanna be sad, measure peanut butter. Right? Like measure out a serving of peanut butter. We're never actually taught how to do that. We're just taught to eliminate a bunch of foods, like, stay away from carbs, keep your calories low. And then we think we're eating low calorie and then we add it all up and we're like, oh my gosh, I'm really not right. Like I'm not eating 1200 calories or I'm not eating super low. So we always start there and see how a client does. And then if it's just not a good approach or we become obsessive or anything like that, like we can kind of shift into different directions or just do protein at burster, just do calories at first. But usually we have a really good success rate because it's more about just self awareness to what you're eating and learning about the different nutritional profiles of food. So that is where we have the aha moments.

How long do you have people track? Typically depends on the person.

Like there's really not a, a safe answer. There's some, there's some people who never want to give it up. They're like, I love this. It depends if we have a client who's coming in strictly just for weight loss and then we get them on diet macros and then reverse them out of it and they feel really comfortable at maintenance so they can stop tracking. But I'll generally not ship the client into intuitive eating until they're at maintenance. So where they're like staying put.

So how long, you know, what about the clients that have really long, that have really long weight loss journeys like upwards of fit, you know. Cause you also said that you previous, before we hit record, you work with a lot of women when they're in their childbearing ranges. So sometimes we're dealing with, you know, we're dealing with, you know, fifth extra 50 to 60 pounds sometimes. So when you have a long journey, how long do you keep someone in a deficit before you do maintenance breaks?

Yeah, again, very person dependent. And it's going to depend on your biofeedback. Like if you are showing me, you know, it also depends on how aggressive our deficit is. If we're only in a 10% deficit, you can likely get away with it for a lot longer than if we were in a 20, 25%. But if we start like skipping periods, having irregular cycles, sleeping like sleep is horrible, lifts are horrible, irritable, just needing caffeine all day. Like these are negative biofeedback markers to us that your body's not happy with the locales anymore. We might need to shift out if it's, if it's all coupling together. We're not seeing weight loss anymore on the scale, you're already at a number that I'm not comfortable dropping you any lower, you know, so then it's like, okay, we need to take a little break, or we'll institute more of like a two weeks on, two weeks off type of plan. Just depends how consistent the client can be, what other stressors they have going on in their life, what else is going on in their life.

So, yeah. So you actually are actually bringing up. My next question is a lot of people talk about, like, plateaus, right? Like, oh, it's not possible for me. What about this? You know, how do you navigate the infamous plateau? And honestly, for yourself as a coach, how are you differentiating between, like, is this client adherence and clients, like, accuracy in reporting, or is this, like, especially someone who does blood work.

Yeah.

How do you define the difference and be like, ooh, maybe this is underlying and we need to change course?

Okay, I love this question, and I kind of have a question for you first too. How do you define a plateau? Oh, that's easy.

How do I define a plateau? I. You know, I think the reason, the reason why I paused and said that it's interesting. Interesting is because to me, it really depends on how long, like the length of time that we have been trying to get a certain result and measuring the expectations of how long it should take.

And then.

And I think that my window of time would probably be two weeks, two, three weeks, maybe three weeks.

Okay. Cause I was going to say that that depends too, because we have a lot of clients who assume they're in a plateau when the scale hasn't budged in two to three weeks. And I'm like, but you're not actually right. Or it depends on the goal. So if you are eating in your calorie deficit for two to three weeks, but like, sleep is horrible, stress is super high. Like, we just have a lot of other things that are having us retain water or we're in our cycle, or it depends how much data and how often we're weighing. Like, you're not really in a plateau. You're not getting your steps in. You're not hitting all your workouts. Like, everything needs to be at least 90% to know if you're in an actual plateau and we're not seeing results anymore. So I actually go a little longer. Like, I would say like four weeks for one of our clients, if they're doing everything right, it's like three to four weeks.

So however. And with the customized approach. Right. I'm curious. You Know, how do you navigate the disappointments or fluctuations in terms of speed to results? Because you are inevitably going to have people that have, that don't have to work as hard as other people and get results faster. You know, results. And I'm putting results in quotes just from like, I'll say more. Everyone's getting results. You're always getting a result. It's your expectation around what you want that result to be that causes the uncomfortability.

Yep.

And so I think that, that, you know, it can be hard, especially if you're in any type of group environment where people are measuring their performance against someone else's biofeedback markers, which just aren't the same. So how do you navigate that for your clients?

So we all like, we set expectations early in the coaching plan, like as early as the consult call before you even sign up. Like, we were like constantly preach. We are not the quick weight loss plan. We are not something that you hire us for 12 weeks and you, you know, reverse 10 years of what I've ever been doing. Right. Like we're the coaching team. That is almost kind of your last line for things that you're trying to do. And it's going to take a significant lifestyle shift. So just setting expectations and education early and then, you know, having that can't compare. Comparison is the beef. Right. Of joy talk too. But I think it just constant communication and kind of setting realistic goals for the client because, you know, if you have someone who has PCOS versus someone who doesn't, we're obviously going to see very different results in a very different timeline.

Yeah. So you had mentioned, speaking of pcos, you had talked about some, you know, you know, adrenal markers that you personally experienced and that you were fed up with western medicine. So I'd love for you to share a little bit about, you know, because you hear controversial things like adrenal fatigue isn't real, doesn't exist.

Yeah, it's really not like adrenal fatigue is just a fun term for like HPA axis dysfunction, like adrenal insufficiency. So basically you have stressed your body out for so long and for so like so high and for so long that your cortisol is just now kind of stunted and it's not releasing how it should. All your other markers so in the body not to get like too sciency.

I love it. We want to hear it. Give us your.

Yeah, your HPA axis is your adrenals, which is also attached to your thyroid, your HPT axis And your gonads or your sex organs, which is your HPG axis, so they all interact and intertwine with each other. So when your cortisol is super high, like in acute instances, if we were like running from a saber tooth tiger, you are gonna be like shutting down sex hormones. You're gonna be shutting down things, pumping out glucose into the bloodstream to be used by the muscles to run away, right? But nowadays we're not running from tigers. We are sitting in traffic or reaching deadlines or, you know, doing something else. And we're just constantly pumping out adrenaline and in fight or flight. So eventually all those negative feedback loops catch up to the sex hormones and those plummet and those like go in the toilet. Because sex hormones are a luxury. If your body's trying to keep you alive, it's not worried about procreating, right? And then your thyroid, it will start to conserve energy, it will start to shut down and slow down the thyroid. So everything kind of works very well together. So for me, when I was doing this issue, I was eating probably 13, 1400 calories a day for years, trying to stay like a toothpick after my competitions, working out six or seven days a week. And I thought it was awesome, like team, no rest days right now I.

Laugh and I'm like, what a horrible, what a horrible idea.

Fasting two days, doing two days and.

Eating out of Tupperware containers at holidays.

Yes, Cold, like cold in traffic, in the car, it was the worst. Fasting, cardio. And then like I'd slam a protein shake and go do legs. Like what? Anyway, all of that while being a pharmacist. So like people screaming at you, no breaks, no rest. And I found myself being like narcoleptic during the day. Like I would have a venti Starbucks and I'd still be able to fall right asleep. And I was like, something's not right. Let's go get blood work done. Everything, everything that could have been off the charts or bad in my blood work was. My thyroid was completely in the toilet. Sex hormones were like perimenopausal. Ooh, was super high, blood sugar was super low. Cuz I was also not eating carbs. I think my fasted blood sugar, if I remember, because I've talked about this a lot in the office, was like 56.

What, like, what's normal?

How normal's like, like a low fasting blood glucose would be like in the 70s that you'd want to see on blood work. 80s is usually normal. I'm chilling in the 50s, like, how am I awake? In, in the, in the doctor's office. So that was my big wake up call of like, all right, what we're doing is not working anymore. We need to slow it down. We need to fix things. So that's what happens to a lot of us. Except we might see higher cholesterol, we might see higher blood sugar. I was super lean, so it was the opposite of someone who's holding excess body fat.

So then what happened? What did you decide? What, what was the, what was your protocol? What was the first thing you had to do and change, and what was hard about it?

So being a pharmacist and not knowing much about the functional path, I immediately went with the western medicine suggestions. I got on thyroid meds and thought it would help and took me off of birth control. And it didn't help. I went on so many doses of levothyroxine and then we added T3 and then I was hyperthyroid and we just couldn't get it together. And then I swapped to like a desiccated thyroid hormone, which is like the combo, and it started to help a little. I was on progesterone pills. Like, I took. I took like 27. Yeah, girl, I'm 14.

You don't have that yet.

This is why I'm saying, like, I. This is why I do what I do now. It's because I don't want anyone to go through that, especially at that age. And it wasn't until I found functional practitioners three years later, I swear to you, I fired three PCPs, two endocrinologists, finally found a functional healthcare person, and all I had to do was eat more. You know, I just needed to eat more and back off training a bit. And I got off the hormone pills and the only thing I'm still on now because it's really hard to get off is thyroid meds. But I've successfully, like, lowered my dose over the years. So all I needed to do was shift my lifestyle and chill on the stress in my life. And my body was like, cool. We're like in parasympathetic activity now. We can get out of fight or flight.

Yeah. So now what I'm curious too is because I see this a lot in myself and also in my clients is that people are not really present to how stress is actually paying, playing a role in their, in their life. Because you have stress that you might not feel like you're stressed, but your body thinks it's stress. So I'm curious if you had that like, were you surprised to hear that you were stressed?

No, but I was surprised because at the time I thought I was doing everything right to be healthy. And I might have looked healthy, but I was completely unhealthy on the inside. It's like when people idolize competitors and they have like eight packs and they're shredded and you're like, their insides are so messed up. Like, so messed up. That's what I was. That's what it was.

I mean, and what about that mental load, like, what was the mental load like, for you to transition from like, eating nothing to like, okay, girl, you gotta eat?

Oh, it was a hot mess. I was freaking out. Cause I was like, I'm gonna gain weight. I'm gonna, like, I had all those crazy, those crazy what ifs and just the anxiety of eating more. And there's no way that I'm gonna be able to eat carbs and not pack on pounds. There's no way that I'm gonna be able to take my training from six days a week to two 30 minute sessions. What?

That's what you did?

I had to. Yeah. I had to back off training for a while to, like, get my body to calm down.

Oh, did that crush you?

It did. Inside. It did. But then, like, just how they say, trust the process. I'm not someone who trusts the process. I need to understand the process. And that's where what we do with our clients is like, okay, I get it sounds whatever, but let me explain to you how it works so you can understand the steps. And then I, like, could trust it a little more. And I started seeing the results happening and I was like, okay, maybe this is working. This is working. And it's not forever. It's for now until we get everything fixed and then we can go into, like, more working out and different food.

How long did that process take you?

I was diagnosed at 27, and I don't think I got to a really comfortable place with eating and eating more and all of that jazz until like 31, 32. Took me a while. It wasn't all bad in between there, but like, if someone had just came to me in the beginning and said, yo, eat more. Change your lifestyle. I wouldn't even have needed thyroid meds. But because I went on that route first, there was like, no going back.

But what a great lesson because now you can help prevent so many people from doing that.

That is the plan. It is. And for anyone listening who's hearing this journey, like, nobody wants to dive into four years potentially, of you know, getting back on track and completely shifting your lifestyle. But it's better than a lifetime of medication. It's better than feeling like crap. It won't take you four years if you catch it early and you work with the right type of person. Right. Like, I did it the hard way and that's why it took me so long. Yeah, sorry.

No, it's all right. No, me, I cut you off. I. I just was curious cuz you said, you know, catch the symptoms early. So what are some of the symptoms that you were experiencing? I. You. You were starting to go into it, like, being so, like, narcoleptic, tired. What else was happening?

So tired. My hair was falling out. It was shedding mad. Yeah, yeah, that was probably some low calories and thyroid issues for sure.

So just real quick, right? You know, we hear women's hair or also men's hair, people's hair falling out, and you think, oh, well, that's no big deal until you go through it. Because when you go through it, it's like you're standing in the shower or just like running your hair through your hands and you're like, what's happening? I. My hair started falling out after I got Covid. Yeah, it's only now starting to come back and I, like, don't even want. I have to cut it. And I'm like, okay.

We are like so similar right now because you have long hair and so do I. I got super sick in December this year, before Christmas, and I tested for Covid and it came back negative like three days in. But I was like, maybe I missed it. I had a fever for two days. And I'm not even kidding you. In March, three months later, my hair was shedding again. And I was like, what is going on?

Yes, me too, girl. I have like the little bald spot. Like, thank gosh, all you people who are not. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Right?

So anyway, I can really empathize. Anyone who says that they're losing hair, I. I know that pain, that as.

A woman, I think it's like just. It is ego crushing. It is just self crossing. My husband has more hair than me, so that's. That's a big sign. And I mean, yes, it can happen after a stressful event, like a sickness, postpartum surgery, stuff like that. But if you're eating low for a while, it can be a thyroid issue. Feeling cold all the time, dry skin, tired, just very tired a lot of the time. Caffeine doesn't even do anything for you.

Mm. Mm. Okay. So if you are listening and your clients are starting, you notice this about your clients. What would you recommend them do?

So we don't always need blood work, but we do ask for blood work too. When clients start with us, usually, like in the past six months, anything more isn't really, like, accurate anymore. So we'll look at that and kind of get an idea of what's going on with the client just by symptoms alone. We can start kind of diagnosing, like, all right, what's your gut doing? How are you feeling? What's your life look like? We do ask them, like, from 1 to 10, how stressed do you feel? Feel? And then I take that number and I see what they're doing in their life, and I'm like, okay, you're probably more of, like an 8 instead of a 6 because you're under eating or, you know, fasted training or skipping meals or doing all of that. The things that we talked about before that you don't know are stressing you out. Right? Like, we add those on later. So at that point, it's kind of like taking diet breaks, emphasizing sleep. Sometimes it is a supplement, depending on what's going on or what they need. I will say, like I said, I don't love supplements, but two that I will recommend for everybody, everybody is vitamin D and magnesium. Like, those are the two that I would recommend for everybody. I don't see anyone who has, like, perfect vitamin D, but you just feel.

So much better when your vitamin D levels are up. Like, just so much butter.

Yeah, it's. It's insane. And most of the time, I see it in the 20s, and I was like. Like, I just want you to feel better here. Like, we need this. You know, I'm.

I'm also curious. What do you do in the cases? Like, you. You mentioned lifestyle, right? Sometimes people have things that are invisible. Stressors that are from part of their circumstances that they can't change. Like, sometimes they're caregivers for their elderly parents, or sometimes they're single parents and they're navigating, you know, three kids under five or whatever, you know? Or they have a. A boss who's absolutely relentless with deadlines and, like, calls you at midnight. Like, there are stressors that cause great stress. Like, how do you help your clients navigate those circumstances that are not as easy as, like, well, just, you know, put your kids in the closet.

Right? Like, wait, that just hit what you just said. Oh, my gosh. I love it. So, yeah, it's gonna be person Dependent, and it shouldn't be. It's gonna depend on that person's level of stress, resilience. Right. Like how much can they actually handle versus not handle. And then at the end of the day, it's all a balance. So if you're someone whose boss is just insane and deadline after deadline just coming down on you, you're working long hours, whatever, maybe sleep isn't great, but you're running on adrenaline all day, right? Then we're really gonna need to focus on nutrient dense foods. Like, you're gonna need to get in all the micronutrients because you can only control what you can control. So we can control food still. So focusing on eating enough and eating the right types of foods. Like, if you were to go fast food all day, it would. You would be. It would be like the worst thing you could do for your body at that point. We're gonna focus on staying hydrated. We're gonna focus on getting rid of any high intensity, like, training. Like, I don't want you doing hiit. I don't want you doing like, crossfit, like, anything that is just. Yes, exercise can be like a good stress on the body, but when you're already overloaded and packed, like, we have to slow it down a little bit. So just making it a balance and seeing what works again. Even as coaches, it might be trial and error, but it's better than what you're going to get alone because of our experience and what we do. So we'll pick the best educated guess and then see how it affects you and make tweaks along the way.

Yeah. And, you know, and it. I'm also curious too. I have two thoughts, right, for you and also for your clients. How fast do you see a turnaround in your clients feeling better when they start to implement these small changes, like as even and even as, you know, eating more as an example.

Honestly, we've seen results in like a couple of days. Like, you have someone who's not used to eating vegetables, then they start like with a fiber goal and eating fruits and veggies, and they're like, oh, my God, I've already like lost 2 pounds of water weight and I have more energy and I'm like, this is what you're supposed to feel like. Like, you just need to eat better, Right? So it can be as little as two days to, you know, when you're dealing with someone with like a really, really, really complex, like, adrenal insufficiency issue, it can take a lot longer. It's Slower changes, but that one might be like a week or two. More like two weeks.

So I recently got my blood work done. I'll tell you, this is the context for why I asked, because when I got my blood work done, like, everything's mint except my cholesterol.

Okay.

And so I was like, oh, that's interesting. And so I started. I was like, well, let's just take a look at what I'm doing. And I was unconsciously just eating really high in fats for no real reason.

Saturated fat.

High in saturated fat. Things like macadamia nuts. And again, it really just comes down to, like, being the poison in the dose.

Right.

Like, you can't sit and eat a whole bag of macadamia nuts.

Right.

Whatever the case is.

Right.

And it's like, oh, my gosh. Because they're delicious.

Yeah.

But you just. I just started paying attention to what my, like, levels were of intake that I'd been unconsciously doing. So I was like, all right, well, let's just lower the fat and raise our carbohydrates. I cannot tell you how all of a sudden I felt like a new human being. Like, why are. I'm like, what the heck?

Right?

That's just, like, one small change. And I bring it up only to share that people are walking around in the I'm fine coma, and I'm not even. And I'm not immune. Even though we know better doesn't always mean that we're doing better.

Right, Right. And you would even think, like, macadamia nuts are, like, high in mono. Unsaturated fats, so they're like, the good, healthy fat. But it likes. And then you wonder, like, how people on ketobore. Ketobor. Keto and carnivore. Yeah, exactly. What a great together.

Cholesterol. I don't know myself, like, how on earth it's not possible.

Like, your poor arteries. I just. I just watch it. I don't want to be the person who's like, I told you so, but it's not gonna work, y'. All. It's not gonna work.

I. I don't know.

I. But it's to. You see, you change your diet, and it dramatically shifted.

It does dramatically shift, yes.

Right.

I'm curious for your clients that you're working with, right? Do you have people that have a really hard time shifting their perspective or shifting their thoughts?

Because I can see your face. This is like no boat. Like, no Botox. You can see my expressions before it even happens.

How do you help shift Your client's behavior when you know that they just need to stop doing this one thing, they just refuse to for whatever.

I think you'll agree that, you know, diet and exercise is important, but if we don't work on the mental mindset first and the reframe and your behaviors. Because a lot of what people think is just beliefs or things that they've grown up and learned. Right. Like I learned cards are bad. And I believe now that if I meet them or even stare at a cookie, I'm gonna blow up like that's not true. Or I believe like my metabolism slows down in my 30s when that's not true. It's just things that people have adapted and adopted over the years. So to get them to kind of reframe, it takes it is person again, depends on the client. But we kind of start to ask them, we ask them a lot of questions like, where did this belief come from? What evidence do you have that makes that true? Like myself and two of my coaches are also certified. I'm gonna give a shout out to my friend. Her certification is health mindset coaching certification. So HMCC by Dr. Casey Joe Arvidas. Her certification is amazing in mindset and it just helps you really dive into clients with like sabotaging behaviors which we all see. Like, you know what to do, we're helping you with it, why aren't you doing it? And it's like usually a belief that they're either not worthy of getting the results right. So kind of just showing them that they are capable, reminding them of their small wins so that they can see some changes along the way, asking them more questions and having them almost come up with the result themselves so they feel more empowered to do it instead of just like I'm telling them what to do. So it's more of a collaborative practice. Like our check ins are not the check ins where you submit a form and we give you like a 15 minute voice memo and I'll see you next week. They're not. We don't do calls either. I will say sometimes that can be harder. But we do have more of a back and forth, conversate, conversational check in process. And if that sometimes takes hours, it takes hours. But we get it done. We get you a plan and you're good to go for the next week or two. So lots of questions.

Yeah. And I'm sure that as time goes on, people start to realize, oh, I'm, I'm accountable to myself. This is what I tell my clients all the time. Like, listen, you're not hiring me for accountability. I'm accountable to my, I'm a mom of two kids and that's who I'm, I'm, that's who I'm accountable to. I'm going to show you how to be accountable to yourself. I love that because you're an adult. It's, you know, it is a two.

Way street here and it does surprise me sometimes. But we try our best. Right? We can't adult more than the client. Yes. But we do our best.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's so true. I mean, it's hard. It can be hard. It can be hard to have those crucial conversations when you like the person. Right. You don't want to hurt someone. But that's what I, that's what it means to be a good coach is to fight for people's potential and not to the garbage that they're bringing in the room.

Yeah. And I think you also, like, you can't just be a cheerleader as a coach either. You need to challenge them. You need the tough love. Sometimes you need to call them out because nobody else is going to. So in a gentle way. Right. Depending on the clients. Some of my clients love tough love. So I can just open up and be unfiltered and you know, the softer approach. But you like that's what they're hiring you for, is to call them out and keep them in check. So you have to do that.

Well, I'm also curious, like given your specialty or, and your, your you know where, given your experience and your specialization, the amount of disordered eating behavior and patterns, when people finally come to you must be out the window, unrelenting.

Yeah.

Because it's not the first time that someone with PCOS has tried to get rid of stubborn weight before.

No. Right.

And so I'm curious for you as a coach, someone who's dealing with like macro counting, how are you navigating the difference between disordered eating that needs to get delegated or that can be handled with lifetime changes so that is actually.

Delegated and, and handled and processed on the console call. Because if we do have someone with like simple disorder eating habits versus an actual eating disorder.

Right.

We will not accept clients with like active eating disorders or even anyone who's like fresh off. Unless, you know, even someone who's maybe five years removed from an eating disorder but is working with a therapist also. Because we're also not therapists. Right. Like there is that line. It's out of our scope. So if they have extra help on that too. And then they're interested. And they've done macros before. Like, we'll take them on. Because, believe it or not, like, I used to have orthorexia and macros, like, saved me from the eating disorder. It didn't put me into it further, which is crazy. It, like, gave me permission to eat foods that I wouldn't. And it created balance for me. So I was able to not be so strict and not be.

What's ortho? What's orthorexia?

So orthorexia neurosa is like a obsession with eating healthy, obsession with food. So, like, I could not eat anything aside from protein before bed. Fruit was absolutely a no, no. Especially at nighttime. Like, if I did anything that was, like, off of my plan, I had to go run in the morning. It's like a ton of obsessive, compulsatory eating behavior. It rules your life. It just. That's all you think about. And it's super precise. Zeros on.

Yeah.

So.

So are those some of the eating behaviors that you're gonna flag in a consult call?

So our girl who does them, I don't do them anymore, but she will flag obsessive, compulsive type of things. She will flag. You know, a lot of clients will be honest and they'll be like, I have a history of anorexia, or I have a history of this. People very much know that we're a macro team. So if they do get on a consult call and they're like, I don't know if I'm gonna be obsessive about the numbers or. I tried this before, but I. I couldn't do it. Cause I was obsessive. You know, not everyone that we work with tracks macros, but if there is already, like, a hint of, you might not be a good fit because of this reason. It's. It's just. I mean, there's. There's a coach for everybody. We're not going to be for everybody. But I don't like to tiptoe that line because I don't want to make anyone's situation worse at all.

Yeah, it's good. I am curious, though. I am curious. Like, have you worked with people who are. Who have tracked macros before and they tell you that they're not obsessive, but then all of a sudden, it's time to go on vacation and they're like, what do you mean, don't count on vacation? I can't. I have to count. I have to Count, I need to pack my protein. And you're like, whoa, what do you do?

I mean, they can pack their protein. I pack my protein still when I travel. Like, pack protein powder and snacks. And so what we'll have them do is more of, like, it's almost like a trustful exercise. Right. We're like, okay, we'll go on vacation. You're absolutely not bringing your scale on vacation. Like, we're not. We're not bringing our food scale out to restaurants or out on vacation. Like, I want you to practice being mindful, but, like, not knowing the exact amounts. If you want to track. Sure. But we're not going to, like, like, we'll do it little by little. We're not going to do the scale. And then the next time, maybe we, like, don't track a meal each day. Like, it's kind of like we got to let go of the training wheels slowly. This is why people, you know, they underestimate how long results will take them because, you know, we can put you in a deficit, and if you follow it a hundred percent, you'll see success, but life happens, and then the mental shift takes a longer time. So, you know, give yourself double or triple the amount of time that you think it's going to take, and that's really what it's going to take.

Well, for me too, I think that everyone learns. Everyone learns how to diet. No one teaches you how to eat.

That quote. Yes.

You know, and it's like, you. The magic is gonna happen in the maintenance. And so when you can show me that you are successful in. In a maintenance period where you can maintain it, then we've actually shifted your identity, because healthy and fit people aren't walking around like, how do I diet? They, like, just live. They live.

Yep. And that's what I honestly want for everyone. And then to get from A to B is. It seems so crazy, but it's really not. And that's why it is really hard for people, though. And I think you can agree with this too. You get online and you see everyone who's like, avoid this.

Don't do this.

Take this one thing for this. And then there's so much misinformation that you're just like, like, especially for me now in the space that I'm in, like, fricking cortisol and demeanor, like, demonizing cortisol and happy juice. And I cannot. With these MLMs, I cannot. So can't. I can't do it. So then I'm like, this is not going to Be your cure. This is not it. This is not it. I promise you. That just, like, got me so fired up. I, like, forgot my trip.

I'm thinking, you know, seed oils.

Oh, I need moderation, y'.

All.

It's all about balance. It really is. Like, it's all about including 80, 20, like, eating some of your favorites. Like, I am definitely. If you follow my social media, you will know I love french fries, tequila, chocolate. But I eat nutrient dense 80 to 90% of the time. But I am not eliminating burgers and French fries. It's not happening. Yeah, you know, it. It's just. It's.

People will say 80, 20, but then they're just not really honest with themselves or present to what that really looks like.

Yeah, it's more like 50. 50.

Yes.

Right.

Or you have people that are like, well, I can't eat vegetables, so I'll just drink a V8.

Why? Listen, I mean, look, vegetables are also an acquired taste. Like, you just eat them because you're an adult. You know, you should mix them up. Can, like, I eat everything in a bowl. It's all together anyway. Cover it with a sauce. I. I mean, for real.

Anyway, so I want to be mindful of your time. So it's okay.

We're good. This is fun. Oh, my gosh. How about people?

Yeah, I love it. I love it, I love it. Okay, so for those of you who want to learn more about. Learn more from you. Maybe go deeper with you and work with you. Because I'm also assuming as an ex bodybuilder, I'm. I'm sure you have a significant amount of coaches that have gone through the experience of transitioning from bodybuilding to eating normal.

Yeah, we do have. I have one on my team who wasn't a bodybuilder, but she was a crossfitter. So just like my employees, per se, but then even just women we work with just.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Like you. I'm sure you work with coaches who are also recovering from the same thing. Coaches need coaches.

We did. No, a hundred percent. We have worked with a handful of coaches, but I will say, like, a lot of our clients are just like gen pop, but we always get the recovering. Like we do get the recovering athlete or something like that in like the. The red, Red S. Triad system.

Are you personally still counting or do you ever count? Like, what's your fitness goals that you're working on now?

I count when I have a goal, so I don't count when I'm in maintenance and I just kind of hang out and do my thing. But right now, I'm in a cut, and I've been in, like, a slow cut since April, So I am tracking, but that's coming to an end. And I'll get right back up into maintenance and then not track.

How long do you. How long do you reverse diet? Like, the reverse dieting period? What does that look like for you?

Myself, I don't. I jump right back up to maintenance. But in a client. Yeah, clients, I still reverse diet, and I'll reverse diet them anywhere from, like, eight to 12 weeks. Sometimes it takes longer. It depends on the client, like, how much we need to actually boost them up. And then it depends on their psyche around eating more and how much their appetite will allow us to. So a lot of women don't love, like, oh, I need to increase your calories by 400 every day. They're gonna be like, I'm so full. And that's so much bloat and water retention for, like, a transient amount of time. But to them, it's like, I'm dating.

I'm bloated.

I'm inflamed. I can't do it. So I'm like, okay, we're gonna do 50 calories at a time until we get to 400. Right. Like, every two weeks, myself, I just slam back on three to 400 calories the next day, and I'm gonna.

Yeah, you're gonna be fine. It might be a little bloaty for a day, but you'll.

But, like, we know it'll tap. It's just, like, it's just learned behavior. We know that. It'll be fine.

Right, Right, Right.

Okay.

So for those of you who want.

To go deeper with you, learn from you.

What are some of the best places I can send them?

Yeah, so my Instagram is number one. You can find me at d r.d w y E R. So D as in Dog Doctor Wire on Instagram. Shoot me a DM. It is me in the DMs. I'll chat with everybody. And then if you want more information on our website or on our coaching and what we do. Bdn coaching dot com. So B as in boy, D as in dog, N as in new nutrition coaching dot com. And those are the top two places.

Okay. I love it. We'll be sure to link all of that up in the show notes as well. Yeah, it was interesting at first. I was like, oh, number one.

Number. Oh.

Oh, wait, no. Yeah. I thought you were saying your instagram.

Handle was oh, oh, oh, oh no. Just two places. Just the two places.

All right, Ashley, Ashley, thank you so much for hanging out with me today and pouring into me and pouring into the community. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for listening to the PT Profit podcast. If you like this episode, chances are your friends will too. So it would be a huge service to us if you would please leave us a review and share with your friends on your social media channels. When you leave us a review, be sure to take a screenshot of it and email that screenshot to my team@infovsimpsonfitness.com and we'll send you a very special Instagram podcast that will show you how to create compelling content so that your ideal clients come to you and you go from wanting clients to a wait list of clients ready for your services. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you on the next episode.