How to Address Resistance with Cameron Puls

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 289. Today I am sharing with you an inside look with Cameron all about how to address resistance. Are you ready? Let's get started. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up, coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and today I'm sharing with you a coaching session I did publicly for one of my previous accelerator clients, Cameron. And we were discussing how in an in person session can we address the potential resistance a person will have once presented with a plan of care, or if you're a trainer or coach and you're presenting your transformation program, you will be required to address resistance. And so inside of this episode we are talking and working through how specific specifically to do that without being pushy, without being sleazy, and without feeling like you're begging for the client. So without further ado, let's roll that interview. 10 o', clock, right on the dot. Always on time. How's it going?

Let me get my thing up. There it goes.

There you are. Cameron, what's cracking? It's so good to see you. Just so you know, we're live already.

Yeah, I'm just gonna plug this in and let's do this thing.

I love it. Okay.

Some data, I know I haven't sent it to you yet, but do your opening, whatever, whatever you need.

I did, I did already because I have a hard stop at 10:30, so let's go ahead and dive in. Give me, give me the data. What can I support you on? How can I serve you? It's good to see you. Yeah.

So currently what I've been running into is a little bit like the objections of, of like not being able to close at times have been more of like a desire, a little bit of like a desire for a solution. Like not people, not necessarily knowing if it's bad enough yet. So for instance, I'll bring up the data here in a second, but it's, there's. I just had a conversation this morning that's kind of a representation of something that's been a little bit repeated where people that are like so I've had quite a number of people that have leads that have been coming in that have been coming from like forwarded Instagram messages or Facebook messages, like, to like, to these people, but they're coming from people that haven't worked with me specifically. Like, they're just the. It's just the content going to them and then they go into my pages and then they'll like book a call.

Got it.

So. So what's happening though is now that it's happened like out of six leads, like this has happened like almost like five times where they don't seem to be coming in either with the desire for my unique solution. So for instance, this woman that came in just because it's kind of repeated thing and I'll put the numbers in the chat or whatever. So that way. So what's. So essentially what's happening or like with this. This individual that happened with this morning. So she reached out initially to book a call. She had some like, right hip pain. This mother, when she goes to sleep, she's had left hip pain that's been bothering her that it's keeping her from running, cycling, hiking, playing sports with their kids, lifting weights.

Got it.

But she's seen like everyone in town, right. Use her insurance for everyone in town, and it's not gonna be the outcome she's looking for. Got it. So when she came in her. When she booked the call, it was really because she wanted the right hip pain that was bothering her. When she went to sleep. She like, didn't really have certainty that or like she did. She wasn't coming in because she had kind of given up on this left hip thing that was bothering her with working out. So when she was coming in is like she just wanted the like the get out of pain thing, which I totally understand in terms of like my price is when I was offering, like, that's kind of a lot to pay to like just get out of pain to like go to sleep if she's can figure out a different way to finagle it. So like within the evaluate. So I realized as I went back as that's kind of an ongoing thing that's like. That's kind of a thing that had been happening with people is like they were in pain. But it was like, well, yeah, I can get you out of pain, but like we can get you back to doing this. Which is like, that's what I do. That's the service I offer. Like, if you just want to get out of pain, like, here's someone I would trust that might get you out of pain, you know, like, but. But, like, it's really like, I. I get people to that point and, like, I know I'm your best option to get you out of it. But as I look back at my content, my website, especially my content, I realize that I'm only, like, talking about the pain journey and not the whole journey back to, like. Like, often enough. Like, my messaging is not there.

Well, we have three things at play, so I'm gonna stop you there for a second. We have three things that play that I'm hearing, and then I'm gonna. And I will address it. But I do have some clarity questions I want to ask you. Number one is when you said that this has, like, been happening a lot. What. Cameron knows this about me. I am like, give me the data. And what I mean by that is, like you said the last six calls, right? So when you're doing the calls, or are they on the phone with you and you're trying to get them to come in, or are they, like, coming in for their assessment and you're doing, like, the discovery session and the last six have not converted? Is that what I'm hearing?

So let's say so in terms of. Let me do the data. Okay, so I've got. Let's see one.

While he's figuring it out, the reason I'm asking him this question is because what I really, really encourage my clients to really look at is that it's so easy for us to get really emotionally invested. And in order to just really separate ourselves and we have to. We're physical therapists, personal trainers. Like, it's supposed to be personal for a reason, but in order to separate the outcomes from performance is just going to be like, okay, let me look at, like, the actual data. The data is what's going to be the difference?

So out of the last. Let's say, like, for looking at the last 12 leads as a trend.

So 12 leads have come in, they've raised their hand, and then what happened?

Excuse me. Thirteen. This other person. Okay, I've had one.

Yep.

Thirteen leads in terms of. These are people I've been on the phone with.

Okay, so then the phone. Where do you make them go? Where do they go? Do they come in for an assessment.

That'S on for that free discovery visit.

Okay, great. And then. So give me. So of the 13 leads, how many.

Go from phone to assessment phone in terms of 13? So that'd be. Sorry, I don't have this calculator ready I got it right here though. So we got, so in terms of. We got one, they have 11.

Okay, great. So 13 leads comes in 11, you talk to 13, 11 come in for the assessment, how many close?

So then, so like the next step from there would be like, would be like the next paid thing would be the initial evaluation. And I communicate with them at that point that they would be signing up. If they move forward with the plan of care, they'll sign up for the plan of care. So it's almost like a third and fourth step. So amount of people that closed from there that came in for the evaluation would have been. Yeah, so this has been a really bad stretch. So three.

Okay, so here's what's interesting. Okay. Is when I take three divided by 11, right. That's almost, that's a 27 conversion rate. So that's not terrible. Okay, that's not terrible. Right, but, and, and, and so what I would say to you is if we're trying to get that conversion rate, and I'm saying that in the context of industry standards, okay, sure. So if you're like, yeah, Beverly, but the last subset of 13, they closed at 60. So then we're now, so it's always in the context of your data. Okay. So if you're like, I'm closing a 27% and I need to get this closer to 30% or 60%, then I'm going to say, okay, and so that data is going to be like, then we need. Now it's going to tell us what the concern is. So the messaging and now Cameron. So I said, so that's what we've, we've figured that out. So the question is, how can I increase my conversions from 27% to 30% from the assessment into a patient plan of care? Okay. And so now we're going to look at the message messaging journey. And to your point, what I want you to understand and what I would invite you to look at when it comes to the communication, right. Is that every single step of the way is going to be removing, is going to be removing resistance to process, to resources, time, energy and effort, and identifying and explaining, exposing your, the real problems in the context of what they want. And so what I want to share with you, okay, is that you were like, I want them, you know, what I heard was like, what I do is help them get back to the things that they love to do. Right. And it might be not what they want. Maybe they don't really want to do that. Right. And that's fine. It's not that it's bad, it's just about you as a practitioner, as a personal trainer. It's like I want so bad my people to care about data, but my people don't care about data. Right. So it's like you have to ask yourself, am I calling in the right people that I want? Like, do I want to call in the people who care about this? Okay. And if you think that they could, then we need to expose what's at stake if they continue down this current path. Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, for sure.

So you're messaging in the actual assessment is like if they're coming, so you meet them where they're at, this is the problem that they know that they're in and you're going to expose the real problem and then what's at stake if they continue down this path. So if we take this girl for example, this who had the pain when she goes to sleep, okay. You address it right there in the, in the assessment and then you create the gap of like, listen, I know that you don't really care necessarily about like this is what you want, but if you want this pain free life to continue, here's what you're gonna need to do. Otherwise not only is it gonna hurt you when you go to sleep at night, then you might just always be in like it might start to hurt when you're just sitting at your desk, when you're just like constantly hurting. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

And I, I think in terms of like using that in, in terms of like what I, what I've actually seen. So like ethically saying, the thing that I've observed is like the people that, the people that wait six to eight months before they finally come see me, it takes drastically more time.

Yes.

And like, like the, not only that, but now they've had that like to your point that you, you sort of taught me at times is the opportunity cost, right. Is like now they've already lost those eight months and then now they're actually going to pay more because they, because now it's going to take longer because there's, they're deeper down this, this path.

Correct. So now, so that's the second point that I wanted to just like kind of bring up. Right. And then when you're starting to evaluate your messaging, am I calling in these people? Because what's happening in your messaging and this is for everyone, like when you're thinking about it, it always has to be in the Context of what is it that they want? What is the not what you want them to want? What do they want? What is the problem that they know that they're in? What's the real problem? Are you exposing that? And here's the thing, because it's like level one awareness and level two awareness, people will say, yeah, but my people know that they're in pain. They already know what the real problem is. Okay, so let's just say, yes, that's true. They are still operating from mistakes and misconceptions, otherwise they would have fixed it. So it's like this concept of like, I know I'm dehydrated, but I keep drinking coffee and I'm still got a headache is an example of what that's like. And you're like, well yeah, that's because coffee is not going to help you, is not going to hydrate you. It's going to make the problem worse. Do you see what I'm saying? And then the third component that I want to offer to you is resistance. So it's that you said that like you're feeling a little bit like you're not overcoming resistance. So what is the resistance that you're, that you're, you're struggling with?

So this, so this one in particular, like I knew is going to be an uphill battle because she had already expressed to me, which is why I actually was like you had reached out to me around the same time. This happened before she even came in for the evaluation, like coming for the paid one, she had already text me and told me that she wasn't planning on moving forward the plan of care. So she didn't know whether or not she should So I when she as a guest come in so address the amount of objections and resistance. She had the very beginning of the eval so that I could continue to like message everything that we were doing to match what like she was having. So for instance there was like, hey, I know you brought up cost and whatnot. Anything that you don't know how I can help you or what it is you're looking for. If you don't know what it is, then like obviously it's expensive. So like in her case she was like, it finally came out. The resistance was, is like if finally she just said like especially at the end she's like, this clearly works. I'm clearly feeling much better. It's literally me not wanting to spend money on myself rather than spend save the money to put it to my kids college tuition. So it's like, okay, so, like, if. If that's the case, then realizing the only info she had been forwarded on. On my content would have been like, get out of pain. Get a pain, not get out of pain. Like, so by the time she had already come in, she thought that the only thing that I did for her service would be get out of pain. Not. No, we take you out of pain and then get you back to the life that you wanted. Right? Which is like, it's been the same sort of. The resistance I've been getting is people are like, it's not even so much that they don't see. Like, it's. It's. When I go to talk to them, when I get to it, I'm like, well, how much would this be worth if you could get out of it? And they're like, oh, that this is. This. I'd be willing to pay much more than what you're asking for. So then. So it's like, so is the question that you're. You either, like, don't want to do at the moment or you don't think that you can get there. Because, like. Because then that's sort of like a different. Like, I mean, I. It seems like I need to craft my messaging only. And before they even walk in the door, before they even get on the phone call, like, to be able to go after those two objection points or that resistance, and then be able to.

Like, hammer, you're asking such a good question and you're already going through the flow, like, just so well. Right? So the thing is, is that, you know, the question that we have to ask ourselves and what you're asking and you know, correct me if I'm wrong, okay? Because I do have a tendency to answer questions that don't get asked. But what I'm hearing and what people have to understand is that. Is that how do we know when the objection is, is or the resistance rather is. Is real and not a smokescreen. So, for example, what I mean by that is, like, she's legitimately saying to you, like, this is not. This is like an extreme example. But if someone's like, listen, I'm. I'm on food stamps, like, I can't. I can't do this. Right. Versus someone who tells you that they can't afford it. But what they're really saying is that the perceived value isn't worth the asking investment. So how do you navigate whether or not that's true? Okay. Because they're like, at straight up, there are going to be people that can't afford it, like, legitimately. They're like, I just don't. There's no more room on my credit card. I can't do it. Right? And so, and so you have to ask yourself, and, and so that's not to say you can't have accessible options. The free content that you put out, Cameron specifically, is brilliant. Like, that's going to help those people. You just did this valuable assessment that's going to help them, okay? So it's not that you're not having, you know, it's not that you don't have accessible. Accessible options. Okay? You just have to be discerning for yourself as to, you know, am I going to really get down to the root of it and be like, this is the root of it. I know for a fact that this person can't afford it. So that's it. Okay? Because what happens is if you start addressing this early, people make a decision based on the price. So if you ask that question, that's like, hey, can you afford to take care of yourself? I know you wouldn't, but let's just say you asked that. They're going to say no, but they don't understand yet the full value of what it is that you're bringing, right? So this is going to be, this is going to be one of those questions that you're going to. And one of those things that you're going to have to decide for your. Yourself in terms of, you know, dnqing your leads. Right? And so a question that you, that I would, that I would offer you to consider is something like, on a scale of 1 to 10, how, you know, urgent is this? How urgent is the. Is the pain problem that you'd be willing to invest your sources, time, energy and money to fix it? And you're not telling. Giving them yes or no, you're just asking them to rate it. And then when you get them on the call, you're going to say, hey, I noticed that you answered seven. And then get. And then, and then address the resistance there. Like, hey, what's causing you to say that? Okay? And then based on what they tell you is how you could be like, all right, you know what? Here's, here's what I recommend. Here's my free resource. Here's my Instagram. Okay? But oftentimes nine out of 10 times, maybe eight, I'll give you eight out of 10 times, they're going to say things that are smokescreen things like, oh, well, I've already gone to everybody and they told Me that my insurance did this and I was in there for 10 weeks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're going to give you all their experience and evidence of why they've said no and why they've already said no without understanding the full value of what you bring. Okay, follow.

Yes.

So now what happens is before you go into the presentation, okay. When after you do your mind blowing assessment that I know you do, and you literally have like got this amazing thing where someone like in that moment is like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. I can't believe I've done this. Before you go into the presentation, we need to tie them down and we need to ask them, okay, so now we're going to talk about your plan and we transition. Everything we do is permission based. So it's like, okay, cool. How do you feel? Where do you want to go from here? I can walk you through A to Z, what your patient plan care is going to look like, but you tell me where you want to go from here. Okay, so then they are like, yeah, I want to know what does be.

Sorry, that was, that was fantastic. Is this like. So let's say they come in for the evaluation. So we've done the discovery visit. They're coming for the evaluation then. Am I? So I would like prepare like, hey, I'm going through my notes of what their resistance or objections would be and I'm going through, through. I'm having this conversation prior to doing the presentation. AKA like, okay, this is like they walk in.

This is before.

Yes, we're going to hit these objections and the resistance right now. Okay.

Yes. Well, you can get them on the phone and find out what they're, if they're resourced and find out like, hey, in your application I saw that you were like a seven. Notice that you didn't say two, but what caused you to say seven. So before you even get them in the eval, you're going to know like, is this a smokescreen or are they on food stamps?

I see what you're saying. So like in my CRM, like if it sends them an email prior to it, be like, hey, that could just be a question. Can you confirm? And on a scale of 1 to 1 to 10.

Yes. Where are you in your urgency to solve your pain problem?

You know we're live on Instagram, otherwise I drop like an F bomb right now. Because that's.

Right. And so then you're gonna get that data and then when you find out like, okay, I noticed you said Seven. Like what caused you to say that? Notice I noticed you didn't say two. But why seven? Because I've gone to all these and then you're gonna find out like, are they resourced? And if they're not, then you're gonna be like, okay, cool, well here's my best recommendation for you. That way you're still helping them, but you're not going through the process of this assessment knowing that they're, you know, not resource.

I can't, sorry. I have to like process that. How, like how? Because that's so easy to implement right now, Right now go to my CRM system, go in there and then I'll just let them know like at, even at the discovery visit, be like, hey, this would be your next best steps. Like I walk them through, they have a folder that walks through as a testimonials, has my, the PDF that I made when I was working with you. Like it's all in there. And then, so then that way they already know what to expect. Like I've already told them on the phone what the price is. They're in the DV or discovery visit. I tell them what the price is and that what I'm probably leaning towards at this point, right before they come in for the eval, I'll just, I'm going to tell them at the discovery visit, hey, I'm going to reach out like tomorrow or in the next couple days, like I'll call, but they'll have an automated email going, hey, can you just confirm that you're a good eval? And on a scale of 1 to 10, so now all they're typing is yes and a number.

That's it. Yes, that's it.

So they don't have to like sit there and type anything. They're just like, yes and a number.

Yes. And then I have so much information. Yeah, now, now the money stuff. Okay, so the thing is people make a decision on price. So I would wait until the discovery visit and the assessment like before you like to, to present the care and always and always permission based, like, hey, okay, great. Now that you're feeling great, where do you want to go from here? I can walk you through A to Z, what your specific patient plan is going to look like in order to get the desired outcome that you mentioned. Tell me. And they're like, yeah, finally give me the plan. Then I'm going to be like, okay, cool. Then go through the plan and before you nail the price down, you need to tie them down to the process. Like, okay, so you're going to be like, what questions do you have for me? And don't ask any, because what is open ended? And the brain has to answer that. Any. They're going to say no. But if you say, what questions do you have for me? They'll look for the questions. And any questions is resistance. You get to address those before you even nail their patient price.

So. Okay, sorry, I still go on. Good. So it'll be all right. So let's say other discovery visit, they come in, I, I, we, I summarize what we talked about on the phone, go over any resistance or objection at that point. So I can even just ask them like, hey, you know, what do you, this is what we're going to do. What do you need to see? Boom. Boom.

Yes, boom.

So then I do the presentation of the free discovery visit thing. And then I love that. Do you? I, I just love that. So, so are you saying. So the, the verbiage after that would be like, if it seems like it's resonating with them is like, would, do you want to see how it goes from like, what it would look like going from here?

Yeah. So I would sandwich it. Right. So it's like, hey, so now you tell me, where do you want to go from here? I can walk you through how your patient plan would look. A to Z. But you tell me. So you're literally.

Yeah.

Asking them to pitch you, where do.

You want to go from here? I can walk you through what your patient, what your patient, like, plan of care would look like from A to Z. What would you like to do?

Yes. Yeah, tell me, what would it look like? Great. And then you go into the pitch and then you tell them, like, this is what I recommend. This is what it is. Guarantee, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff that we talk about. And then at the end, before you give them the price, the last question is going to be the price. And I, yeah, and then you're going to say, okay, great. You know, everything we do is customized. So I just want to find out, you know, from you, on a scale of 1 to 10, how do you feel about the patient plan? Right. Everything I do with scale because you need to, they need to be like 10 out of 10. And then I'll give them the investment. But if they're not, then guess what? I will work through resistance before I give them the price.

So the folder I give them has a price sheet in the end. Like, it's like I put it there purposely.

Okay.

So we can Go through values, testimonials and that stuff in the process. I love this, though. Where do you want to go from here? I can walk you through from A to Z. It's customized so it can look like how you want. Are you in? You know, like, at that point just be like, you know, where, where are. Where do you want to go from here? I can walk you through from A to Z. You know what that would look like is totally customized. Are, you know, do you want to see what that looks like?

Yes.

Okay. So we go through that. And then before I bring up the price sheet. So like, we've gone through. I've walked them through they. That I before even bring up the price, you go, what questions do you have?

Yes. And then you're going to feel about the process. Scale of 1 to 10. If they're like, I'm in. Let's do this. This is what I want. Then you're going to be like, great. So here's your. Here's the investment. And now their brain is going to go crazy and they are going to resist. Okay. They're going to be like, of course.

That's normal. Yeah, that's normal.

It's normal.

Yeah.

So now you lean into it. But then the thing is, is that the idea and the hope is if you go through this process like this is that you've addressed any of the real resistance, like the, like, process themselves. And the last thing to fall is like, can I do this?

And that would be cash flow. Yeah.

Because the money stuff, you can figure out the money, if it really is, ends up being money and logistics. It's like, great. This is it. This is what we can do.

That's cool. I mean, like, well, because I've been finding it's. It's definitely at least like on the phone. Like, I, like, even I'm getting people to come in, even though I'm already saying, like, hey, like, you know, from what you've told me, it would be a great fit for all the people I've had that have gone through stuff just like you. And now they're doing this without fear of stuff coming back. The cost of that is this. But regardless, we're not getting married right now. The next step is that free discovery visit. I don't even know if I can help you, let alone you even know if you like being in a room with me.

Yeah.

So then it's like, so, like, it's no obligation.

I don't know if I can help you. Free demonstration. It's literally yes. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And the only reason why you would say no is because. Is because the pain's not that urgent.

Yeah.

And you can't wanna change it.

Yeah. Or my tone or whatever it is at that point, like, still doesn't seem like trustworthy. Like, as if I'm like trying to get them in an obligated situation or something.

Correct.

Which I'm. That's not like an inkling in my body, so I don't think it comes off that way, but.

No.

No, you never do. I love, I. I love that. I love that before I bring up the price sheet. At that point now we're just talking about the real objections. Like we're just talking about the real resistance and the real objections. Have a conversation about that before the prices come out. Because then that's a different conversation.

Correct. And then it will be easy peasy lemon squeezy. Because your demonstration is so powerful.

That's dope. What? Call. Send me the invoice.

You're so sweet. Okay, well, now I can't wait. So now, I mean those, those small changes, those three things you do those three things change your upfront. So like do some dnqing. Really just nail down, like address resistance before and then work through like the investment afterwards. That is going to. That'll double your close rate with the leads you already have. I. No doubt.

Yeah. So it's the. It's that scale of 1 to 10 on the CRM thing. And then I'm going to call. They'll get the email. Plus I'll probably call them and then. And then when they're in here for. Especially for. And I'd be calling them like even maybe before the DB in that case. But then it would be like asking them at the end. I love that close. Where do you want to go from here? Walking through from A to Z. It can look. The plan can look like how you want it to look like. Would you like to see how that looks?

Yep.

Yes. Bring out the folder, get through all of the things, ask them what on the. How they feel about the process from 1 to 10 and what questions they have before the I bring out the price sheet.

Perfect. Yep. Made it a day.

What a freaking day.

Talk to you and Chad, I love it. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. Any. If there are any final questions, you can put them in the. In the chat. And then of course, Cameron, like just. I'll. I'll. Anyone wants to chat to you and learn more about, you know, you, where you're at. I'll put that in the chat, too.

So is this on your Instagram page so I can go watch it?

Actually, Facebook. It's on. It's on Facebook.

Okay. All right, sweet. I'll go back and listen. All right, thanks, Beverly.

Bye. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Thank you for listening to the PT Profit Podcast. If you. If you like this episode, chances are your friends will too. So it would be a huge service to us if you would please leave us a review and share with your friends on your social media channels. When you leave us a review, be sure to take a screenshot of it and email that screenshot to my team@info simpsonfitness.com and we'll send you a very special Instagram podcast that will show you how to create compelling content so that your ideal clients come to you. And you go from wanting clients to a wait list of clients ready for your services. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you on the next episode.