Is Your Business at Risk? featuring Ryan Barrett of ORAM

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 137. Today I'm sitting down with Ryan Oramzi Barrett from O Ram and we're talking all about is your business at risk? Are you ready?

Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance and movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up, coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Formula. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and if.

This is the first time you're hanging.

Out with me today, welcome. I'm super pumped that you're here. I'm really excited to bring to you Ryan Oramsey Barrett, who is the founder and chief executive officer of O RAM Corporate Advisors, located in Boston, Massachusetts. He has spent the majority of his career consulting to organizations whose data is critical to their business. While working as a consultant with various companies over the past 15 years, he has seen technologies evolve into one of the most critical components to ensure a reliable and scalable operation. Ryan has worked many different facets of it, from ISP and financial institutions to biotechnology education and more. And with his years of expertise in project development, network design, domain migration and upgrades, email security and storage area networks, he understands the needs and customizes his solutions to meet his customer needs. Now, you might be sitting here and thinking, this doesn't pertain to me or wondering, is cybersecurity a thing that I need to be actually concerned about? And this is exactly why we have created this episode for you today with one of the most awesome, fun loving IT person I have ever met. So without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview.

What's up, Ryan? Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

Great, great, great. It's good to see you again.

I know. I can't believe it. We were just. Before you hit record, we were talking about how we're both in Disney World at the same time. We should have been a little bit more strategic in our coordinating. But, you know, it is what it is.

It is what it is, right? It happens.

Absolutely. So, Ryan, for those of my audience, for those of you who have not had the pleasure of connecting with R, I'd love for you to share with us a little Bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

I serve everyone. No, no, no, no. You know. Ryan Barrett, ORAM Corporate Advisors. We are a Boston based cybersecurity firm, handle all things technical and all things compliance in regards to our firms. We deal with clients that are in the finance industry, medical, law, nonprofit, and so forth. And what those industries have in common is that there's a highly regulatory body above them. So the data matters. We always want to be as secure as possible as business owners, but when someone else is looking over your shoulder, you tend to take notice. And so we like those industries and it also keeps, you know, keeps our, our skin in the game as well. We want to make sure our clients are protected and everyone knows a little bit more about cybersecurity every month. You know, we want that business maturity to always grow for not just ourselves, but our clients as well. And that's kind of the sweet spot that we're in right now.

I love that. So can you expand a little bit more on what, what you mean specifically when you say cybersecurity? What exactly is that?

It means the bad guys are out to get you. No. So what, what we consider cybersecurity at Oram is, let's think of it like a bulletproof vest. We have many different layers that we try to cover or surround your. Is it from email security, is it data loss prevention, is it compliance? And all these little things are little fabrics that we're surrounding your business to protect when someone does eventually shoot that bullet and tries to take down your business by either hacking in or trying to do a password of your email so they can facilitate a wire, things like that. Our goal is to have enough layers around any business so that it can be protected for the long haul as your business goes throughout, you know, growing and, you know, changing your business in a day to day basis type of.

I see. Okay, great. So when you. So can you describe to us a little bit more? And you and I have had conversations about this, so I'd love for you to share with us and describe and go into detail about, you know, some of the common myths that people have and think and believe when it comes to cybersecurity and the safety of your business.

Yeah, you know, I guess the biggest misconception is I'm too small. You know, you, I shouldn't have to worry about. My, my, my system is not that important. No one really cares. So we joke that there's two things. Do you have a dollar in your bank account? If you do Have a dollar in your bank account, you're not too small. If you have payroll, you're not too small. And the reason why we focus on the finance so much is that's what they're out to get. And if, if it's easy to grab a dollar from you, they will grab the dollar. They will grab 100,000 if they could. But they will also, you know, as a business you have to realize that no, you're not too small and no, you are liable. You know, there are liability leaks all over the place and you have to be aware as a business owner or as an operations manager that these things are there, they affect your business and you should be knowledgeable so that you can defend yourself against them.

Can you talk to us a little bit more about some common liability leaks? Like what are some things that our businesses would be liable for that we don't even realize?

Yeah, I mean if you don't have multi factor two factor authentication, not to get really technical for your email, for example, there could be nefarious actors in your email right now waiting on that next payroll, waiting on a decision to be made that, you know a business owner is going to buy a piece of property so that they can insert themselves into the transaction and take money or reputation. They can ruin your reputation by sending virus emails to all your clients. And if you don't have a simple protection like multi factor authentication to know it's really you logging into, that's a huge liability leak for you. You have a new employee that starts and you have someone nefarious that is on your email looking at them. You could be giving that new employee Social Security, birthday, all that information for that onboarding. Right. To the nefarious actor, day one. So these are like a quick liability leak that could be in your environment right now that just needs more attention to make sure that you're safeguarded against.

What are some of the, what are some of the things that in our business like that we should be paying attention to that we can consider. Oh, this might be, this might be.

A red flag, you know, one of the things that we do for our clients. Here is another high level topic. Scour the dark web. Right. What is that? It sounds weird, right?

What is that? That is weird.

So the dark web is, let's just call it a. For those. I'm going to age myself, let's call it like, I was going to say a bulletin board system, but like no one would be like, what is that? Okay, think of the dark web like Facebook. Right. But not Everyone can log into Facebook, but in Facebook, there's all these posts of different things. Facebook Marketplace, you can offer to buy things and you can chat and talk about, you know, what's going on out there. When a company gets hacked, it's very similar to a marketplace like that where on the dark web, they could say, hey, I just hacked LinkedIn. Here are all the usernames and passwords on LinkedIn. I'm just going to put that out there for sale. And in that marketplace, someone else comes up, picks that up and then uses that to say, oh, maybe they've used these passwords, email and password combination other places in the Internet. And they go out there, could be your corporate mail, could be your Staples account, could be your Amazon account. And then they go out there and they try that to be able to gain access to, once again, financial data, your credit card numbers at all these different sites, to be able to steal money from you and move that money into their hands.

So what you're really saying is that if your username and password is the same for multiple places, while that's. While that might be convenient for you, it's not so good for your business?

Yes, exactly. It's also convenient for the hackers.

Yeah, they're. They're banking on the fact that you're using the same password and email and username name for your financials.

Right, exactly. Right. You know, and once again, if you don't have another form of authentication to say that, hey, this is really Beverly logging into her financial account, they can take access to your email, and once they have access to your email, they can reset every password on the planet. And now you've lost access to your own accounts. So you see how this wheel, or let's call this snowball, because it's winter here in the Northeast right now. As you roll this snowball down the hill, it can get bigger and bigger and bigger. And then you've lost access to your.

Life and also your clients. Your client. They get access to your client stuff.

Yes, yes. Reputation, you know, gone. All the years that we've spent trying to make our businesses gone in an afternoon.

So do you have any data around? You know, how often does this happen? I feel like a lot of people, especially in security spaces, they tend to be reactive instead of proactive because they think, everyone thinks, oh, this isn't going to happen to me.

Yeah. And so I would say an average hack, or an average, you know, incident, if you will, in the last year was about $3 million worth of damage. And that's scary, right? Because if you look at the numbers, the average cybersecurity policy, if you even have cybersecurity insurance, is about. For covers about a million bucks. So if you think an incident is about $2 million, $3 million, and you only have a million dollars worth of coverage, you could be liable for another $2 million. And that's usually a death warrant. For most organizations that we work with, that. That's time to close the doors. You know, it happened. That's it. If you're a small real estate firm and you send a wire for someone's transaction to the wrong person, that person's out of the money and the other person's out of the property, Right? So it's. You're. You're kind of. You know, it could. It could be a death warrant for your business. How often does this happen? Daily. Daily. Daily. Daily. We have a small subset of clients that we have here in the northeast area. And the conversations that we have and the incoming leads that we get or incoming phone calls of, hey, I need help with. This is growing rapidly. As soon as the pandemic hit, it's been busy, and it's growing day over day. So this happens all the time. And the reason why you don't hear about it much with your friends and families is because most people are embarrassed by it. You know, if you get hacked, and if your business gets hacked, you don't really announce it on Facebook. You know, you don't tell everyone this, what happened to me. You hire professionals like ourselves, and we deal with it, and you don't really talk about it because you feel bad about it. But it's. I truly think it's the opposite of what you should do. I think you should tell your friends and your associates and people that you work with that what happened to you, so it doesn't happen to them. We're missing part of that conversation, but it happens quite a bit. It happens quite a bit, and we're seeing it more and more every day.

Yeah, it's scary. The Internet is. Is the wild. Is the wild, wild west out there? For sure.

I mean, how many times have I scared you, Beverly, with our conversation?

Oh, my gosh, Every day. I'm like, oh, right. Yeah. I mean, it's always. You know, I think that, you know, earlier in this. In. In this conversation, you said you're not too small. I think so many people, you know, think that they're not important, but that's just not true. In fact, you're almost more liable because they're counting on you to not have these, these security systems in place.

Right.

So I mean you almost become more, more of a target, essentially. Right. So.

And what like small businesses like yourself don't understand is it's, I'm not going to say it's not complicated, but I'm going to say that there are third party apps and services out there that allow you to be super secure even if you are one to three people. You know, you just have to, you have to do the work to click on the security parameters for your logins, you know, these little things that we would guide you through to make sure that we lock in that security so that you can run your businesses as best as you can and not have to worry about this magic bullet that's gonna get you someday, you know, that sort of thing. So it's, it's not overly complicated, but it's something that can be done for even the one to two person or the solopreneur type of person.

Yeah. So, so would this be, would this be something. Because you also mentioned like employees, right? So what, when, when you're talking about small business, how are you defining that?

So you know, what is it the IRS thinks a small business is? Anything under 2000 employees.

Oh my gosh.

Really? So that's a lot of small businesses, right?

Yeah, that's like every business is small except Coke.

So I consider like it doesn't matter small or large for us. I consider it all business. Just like we said. Any, like anything under 2000 employees is most businesses that we operate on on a daily basis. It's not Walmart, it's not Dunkin Donuts, you know, it's. But every other business we interact with on the smaller level is going to be under 2,000 employees. So we consider a one person business as more or just as need for our services. Just as much as a 30 or 100 or 200 person firm.

Especially if they're working with clients. Because don't forget you are a sole proprietor of your business. But you're serving anywhere from 10 to 50 clients, you're on the hook and responsible for their, their info. Especially if you are, because you know, we're a fitness podcast. Especially if you are a physical therapist and you're dealing with medical and HIPAA and a whole bunch of confidential information that you are responsible for regard with your clients. I mean, you're on the hook for that.

Let's talk about that real quick. Right, so you're a solopreneur, right? And you have, you know, you Have a pretty good book of business. You got 20 clients that you see on a monthly basis, hopefully more, but let's just use 20 as the number. Say your business happens to be in New York or Massachusetts, where we have the strongest PII laws. That's personally identifiable information. That's PII in the country. You know, not just is it $20,000 per instance as a fine. So you have your 20 clients, you get hacked and you didn't take the right security measures. Massachusetts can say, hey, you got to pay us as a fine, $20,000 per instance. So that's, you know, 20,000 times 20. What is that quick math? $400,000. And then Massachusetts also says, you know what, because you are so bad, you need to give those 20 people credit monitoring for the next two years. And so that on average is another 20 to 30 bucks per month per instance. So I mean in just that math alone, you, you're at a half a million dollars. You haven't even fixed anything yet. You know what I mean? You haven't even done anything. This is just the fines. You haven't, you haven't correctly mitigated the circumstance that you're in. You haven't even hired a professional to investigate what's going on. And you're talking, this is a one, one solopreneur outfit with 20 clients. And we can do napkin math and you're out $500,000.

Yeah, a reason to cyber secure your space for sure.

Oh, by the way, we haven't even talked about if they stole anything yet. You know, and so these, like this is happening, it's happening a lot and people are making the right moves to be able to secure themselves. And I encourage all your listeners that they should look into. Doesn't have to be through us. Any tech staff that they know about, like, hey, what's multifactor? Have the conversation and see what you get.

So can you, you know, we know. Or I should say I know multi factor authentication in terms of, you know, Facebook and Instagram. Like how do you do that in your email? I didn't even know that was a thing. Like are you prot. If you're just using Gmail or what if you're using a CRM and that kind of stuff. What is like how do you know if you've got multi authentic setup?

Exactly right. That two fa. So Google calls it to fa. That's two factor authentication. And what that is, it's real simple. Guys. You, we all know banks started doing this a number of years ago when they say hey, can we get your cell phone next time you log in? And then every time after that, every time you log in, something pops up on your cell phone with a text message saying, can I get that six digit code that's on your cell phone? What the banks did back then, it was like, I want to make sure it's Beverly logging into her bank account. So once you, your credentials are great, but your password could get hacked. So they know this already. Right? The banks knew this years ago that someone could have gotten your password. So I need to make sure it's really you. So I'm going to send a text message that you've already given us your cell phone number in the, in the past. Let's text that to see if it's really you. Like a double confirm. And so that's what multi factor is. So in Gmail they call it 2fa. And this is always where it is. Go to my account in any one of and then click on the security tab and literally it's going to walk you through steps to say, how do I turn on two factor or multi factor authentication for whatever app that you're in. Most apps these days have this ability to add the security measure and it's one of the easiest ways to stop someone in their tracks. Right. I always say a door that has locks is for honest people. Honest people, when they see a locked door, they shake the handle and then they walk away. If someone nefarious, they're going to break the door and try to, try to get in, no matter what. But if you have that one little lock on your, that multi factor, say your password does get hacked, you have a stopgap right there. Immediately they can't get in. So I encourage. Anywhere you see that, do that, add the security.

That's good. Yeah, it's intense, isn't. You know, it's just, it's intense. And this is going to lead to my next question because I feel like one of the things that people are now hackers are now doing and I think it was common before, but as people are getting more aware of things like Tufa, I feel like they're.

I love that.

Yeah. Now I'm like, oh, you gave me something. I can say, great, love that. Do their, their attempts to get you to give them their info is getting more sophisticated. So you talk a lot about it as fishing. So I'd love for you to explain, explain, share with us a little bit more about what you're seeing, what they're doing. What is fishing? Give us all that Data, So fishing, right.

So it's just, it's not you in a pond with a fishing pole. You know, it's not that it's like, okay, so real simple, I go on Beverly, I'm using you as an example today because you're, you're my, you have, I have your undivided attention.

You got it? I'm it.

Right. So I go on Beverly's website and I say, hey, let's go to the contact us or let's see who Beverly's team is. And they go through and they say, oh, Beverly has a cfo. So why don't I send. This is, this is spear phishing. And we're getting into. Why don't I send Beverly CFO and pretend that I'm Beverly and try to see if I can elicit a financial transaction that's called spear phishing. Where their ID going on your website to kind of look for who's in the environment and try to fool them to thinking that you're an employee in the environment to give them some information. So, and so if you take that one step back, phishing would be more like, I'm going to send an email to everyone at the company or any company and I'm going to see if I can force them to click on something. So it doesn't matter if they're an inside or outside or wherever. It's just I'm spend sending fake emails. I'm sending fake emails for you to either give me your password or click on something so I can get access to your computer. And it's blind. It says let's send it to as many email addresses that we know that we found on the dark web. Thanks for that leading Beverly. And then we're just trying to get someone to click on something so I get access to their password and we can go from there. And once I get access to their password for their email, I'm going to go through all their email and send more emails to more people and try to get as much information as possible.

And how often is that happening?

35% of all emails of phishing attempt. Like, it's, it's, it's ridiculous the amount.

Yeah, I mean I can't tell you. I'll just tell you personally from my side. I'll never forget. Like I've had clients call me at 4am in the morning being like, oh my gosh, someone just tried to get my Instagram password and I gave it to them and I'd be like, oh my gosh, change your password. Right now and put on the two factor.

Now?

Yeah, like now.

Go get Tupa. Do it now. And I can't tell you how many times I get emails that are like, you've been verified on Instagram. Just put your, put your email and password right here. And I'm like, Instagram is not emailing me from a gmail account from michael2.za 22222, right? So you know it, you know, but people don't, aren't looking that closely because we're just in this age of speed. Everyone is looking for the fastest, most efficient way and they see that. They just don't take the time to look. Especially with Gmail. Gmail hides the email.

Oh, yeah. Like, listen, listen. Much love to everyone who became a teacher during this pandemic. And like at home, right? And so your kids are not in school, your home, you're trying to run a business and you get an email that you've just been Instagram verified. The last thing that you're going to do is you're going to like scan that email and be like, oh, did Instagram really send this to me?

Is this true?

You're going to click confirm? Yes. I got to go, I got to go. My kid is, you know, throwing toys at my other child. And so we are all off our game. Most of the conversations people are still working from home two or three days a week. We are no longer can communicate in an office together. Like, hey, Bob, did you really mean to send me that email? No, Bob's in California at his home, not paying attention as well. Right. And so we, you know, as the CDC says, you got to wash your hands for 20 seconds. If you think, if you get an email from someone, take the 20 seconds and look for the red flags. Red flags are grammar, red flags are Beverly, you keyed in on it. No, Instagram is not sending you from a Gmail account. Right. You know, these little things that you gotta hover over those emails. Like, why would this person be sending me an attachment? Like, we haven't communicated in years. I don't know this person. I went to high school with this person. You know, things like that. Whenever you have that little thing on the back of your neck that says, this seems weird. Stop, just stop what you're doing.

Probably it, right?

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, those dm, you know, it makes, it always makes me laugh where they're like, Instagram emailed you. And I'm like, Instagram is the most impossible platform to get a hold of when things go wrong. They have time to email you. They don't. Their Instagram is not emailing you. Instagram is not emailing Taylor Swift. So, like, let's just take a deep breath.

Take a beat. Take a beat.

Right? And I can't tell you how many emails I've gotten or DMS that I get that are like, I made this for you. Click this attachment. And I'm thinking to myself, you haven't talked to me in 10 years. You got hacked, right?

I do not. The movie you just sent me, you did not send me that movie.

Yeah. That's not you. That's not you.

We're not friends anymore.

Yeah. I mean, not even that. It's like, before you even send me that, you'd be like, oh, oh, hey, haven't talked to you in a while. How are you? Right, Right again. It's just 20 seconds. 20 seconds of being like, is this really true?

Yeah. And by the way, if I take those 20 seconds, nine times out of 10, delete.

Yeah.

Because, you know, there's something like, you're like, this seems really odd. Why would this be happening right now? Why are you telling me to go to CVS and get you gift cards and send you those numbers?

So I remember in the personal. In the personal world, right, we used to get these emails that were like, hey, I'm interested in working with you.

And I have a whole team of.

People, a whole, you know, group of people that want to work with you. I'm going to send a car over right now. Like, they would be. It was, like, very sophisticated. All you need to do is just send me something or whatever. It was like, send me your bank info or something. So I could wire you the money, or you give me some and I'll wire you the rest or whatever. Sure, yeah. People fell for that.

Still do all the time. 100%.

Oh, my gosh. Or what. You know, I feel like back in the day, back in the day, there was the fishing attempt that was like, I'm trapped in Nigeria.

Oh, yeah.

I'm trapped in Egypt. I'm trapped. I'm traveling and I can't get back. Please wire me money.

Here's the worst part that has evolved into grandparents. So they figure out through social media who the grandparents are, and they email the grandparents or send them notes to say that you're trapped in Nigeria. And they're like, oh, I don't know what happened to Billy. I haven't talked to his mom this week. And they send the money all the time. It's awful. But it still happens. That old school scam has just grown and grown and grown until they found a population that was more susceptible than you. Right. You know what I mean? You're like, I don't know, Susie, Suzy, I don't care if you're trapped in Nigeria.

Yeah, exactly.

But if it's your grandchild, you're like, I don't even know if they're traveling, you know? You know, we get confused as we get older.

Yes, that's true.

And so they found, they found a population that it's much more easy to fool, if you will. And it's unfortunate, but it's still going on today. So talk to, you know, we're coming up on summertime or the springtime, and if you're going to visit people and your family that you haven't seen in a couple years, talk about cybersecurity, I know it's boring, it's not really good coffee table talk. But say, I just heard this really good thing on Beverly's podcast about this. Have the conversation. People will be amazed. And they would have more knowledge to be able to take that 20 seconds and look through that email and say, I'm just going to pick up the phone and call to see if he's really trapped in Nigeria.

Yes, exactly.

That's all that we ask. So true.

So true. I'm so, I'm curious, you know, what are some of the mo. The most sophisticated phishing attempts that you've seen that people tend to fall for?

Ah, I'll give you, I will admit one right now.

Okay, okay.

Around the holidays, we send all our clients, Amazon, UPS, FedEx notifications that are fake. And even though we send them to our clients, we also, we also send them internally to our staff. You know, we're trying to make everyone learn. And let me tell you, especially when you're expecting packages, those are the best ones. I have almost fallen for one where you look at it like, am I supposed to receive a package now? Like, especially when you're working from home and like all these other scenarios, we send it and we say, hey, click on this link to see if this package or this package didn't get delivered here, click on this link for tracking. We do that all the time. We do that all the time as a human nature, right? You go, you get an email that packages on the way. Oh, is that coming Tuesday? Is that coming Wednesday? And that little click like, oh, you know what? Now I need your password to your email. It didn't work. And what happens is people like, then Enter their email address and password once they click on it because they want that. Right. And so it's really nefarious. But we've A, we've seen it in real life. But B, it's like one of those things that shipping notifications is a big one that people normally click on or a good one that we do as well too is it's kind of like in Massachusetts called like find massmoney.com where you've gotten a bank account, was closed in your name and had money left over. Here's free money. Click on this link to see if this is really you. So people fall for that a lot. Well, too. When they say, hey, I got 500 bucks in a bank account that you has your name on it. Do you need this money? Yeah.

Or I feel like I've also seen though, like you've won an iPhone.

Yeah. Whoever. Thousand dollar iPhone. I do.

I was like, I have. All you have to do put in your, your Social Security. I mean, I joke, but I'm also not joking. That's exactly.

Yeah.

Like they tell you you've won something. The other thing is, I've seen you talk about this when you talked about the holidays. It reminded me, is that charity people give a lot during the holidays specifically. So they'll donate. And so people will, you know, they're fishing attempts around donations that you think you're giving to a charity organization and you're really not.

Salvation Army, Red Cross, all these ones, while they're great good charities, people try to knock them off all the time. They are websites on the dark web that are like, here's a template how to create a fake charity website. All you have to do is pay me five bucks and I'll give you the template. And this is the imaginary Red Cross. Right. And so think about this. If you say a phishing attempt with a link that say, hey, you know, donate to the Red Cross, it's the holiday season, everyone's going to be happy. And then you click that link and you don't look at the web address and it goes to like just some page that looks like the Red Cross that's asking for your credit card details or bank account information. We're not on our game. We're going to put our information in there and that's done through like just a $5 purchase on the dark web.

That is crazy.

Gotta be, gotta be careful, gotta be vigilant. And you gotta have these conversations that we're having now so people can know what's going on.

Yeah. So what are some of the things people can do? Like say, like say they are. Something happens, what do they do?

So if you think that you have had an incident, let's call it an incident and you don't know or maybe just you're questioning like, ah, something's not right. Contact a professional. Like, you know, you absolutely, number one, get help. Feel, do not feel embarrassed by raising your hand. You know, you, you can always contact ORM, ORM Corporate Advisors, www.ormca.com We'd be more than happy to help you, but we all know someone in the tech field. Reach out and say, hey, I think this is happening. Do you have any advice of who I should talk to next? If you have found that you have been hacked and you had either monies or funds taken out of your account, the next is the appropriate authorities, right? So you want to make sure that, you know, unfortunately in this world no one's really going to care anything less than a million bucks. You know, no one's really going to. The authorities can't really do anything. But you got to get that paperwork done. I would then contact your credit history, all the three major credit bureaus and freeze your credit because that's what they're going to go after next. If you're a business, look at, you know, ways to protect. Call your merchant services company for your ein number to protect that. And then I would say once you have those, you have the appropriate authorities, you're starting to freeze your credit. Time for a deep dive investigation with a professional. Call a cybersecurity professional like ourselves and have them go through your email to make sure that they don't have rules set up and they're still communicating and things like that too. And then if it's something that they've installed on a computer, we usually wipe everything and then start from scratch. So almost akin to throwing your laptop out the window and saying, I want to make sure that there's nothing on here, nothing nefarious. And then you try to continue on your day to day basis.

So I also want to be mindful of your time. So let me ask you, how susceptible are people for repeat offenses?

You know, it's, we've seen it a couple times where someone goes, oh, I got hacked. Then they put their head back in the sand and they continue on. They make some adjustments, they don't make all. And especially when you're doing password reuse at different websites, you know, we have seen it happen multiple times, so it's very susceptible. But there's most People react really sharply to the first time. We call this the pain prick. If the pain prick from the needle or the pin is sharp enough, you react. Right. And so the good thing is when people react, most of the time they react quite dramatically and solve most of the problems. But we have seen repeat offenders. If it's a small scenario, it could happen again.

Okay, that's, you know, because it's just. Go ahead.

One thing to note, too. We talked about the dark Web. You know, that mysterious world Wide Web out there. If you get hacked and someone gets information from you, imagine that being posted on the dark web for someone else to come along down the road. You know, that's for saleable information. And the other hacker might change the way they do it, but it could be you again. So you got to think about that.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Scary, scary, crazy, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially since, you know, the Internet, for better, for worse, has given a, you know, you, you have the law of polarity, right? So you have the. You can't know the good without the bad. And so for better, for worse, the Internet has given people so many different access points and lowered the barrier of entry to start a business and generate revenue, which is a good thing. But on the flip side, if you're not secure, then you're just liable and you're leaking.

Yes, yes. I hate to laugh and giggle while you say that, but you, you hit the nail on the head that, you know, think about the businesses that's like, before the pandemic and now you are $100,000, your Etsy business, sending, you know, stickers across the globe that didn't exist before.

Yeah, yes.

And you're still running off that Gmail account that all those transactions go into. You know, things like that. You have to think about that, like, that's real money. That someone will be like, thank you, I'm going to put this in my pocket now.

Yes, exactly. So what's a good place for someone to start when it comes to assessing whether or not they are, how intense their liability leaks are?

Thanks for that. We have a cyber security assessment right on our website. So if you go to www.oramca.com, there'll be a link there for cybersecurity assessment. It's a good 10 to 12 person questionnaire. Sorry, 10 to 10. 10 to 12 questionnaire. 10. So, yeah, whatever. Anyway, questions on there that you can answer and what that will do is, you know, we can immediately say, hey, these are things that we could look into for you or you know, just book a call with us and we'll be able to evaluate on a deeper level with you as well.

Yeah. Okay. I love that. And of course, we'll link all of that up in the show notes. So thank you so much for hanging out with me today and pouring into my audience. Really appreciate it. You definitely are getting, you know, lighting the fire under my butt.

Well, thank you for having me. Always a pleasure to talk to you. You're awesome, and I'm just glad that I can share some knowledge with your growing audience. And thanks again.

Love it.

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