Neuro Hacking with Liz Larson

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 58. Today I'm sitting down with Liz Larson and we're talking all about neurohacking. So are you ready? Stay tuned. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. Welcome back to the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host Beverly Simpson and today I have an episode of A Doozy for you. So I'm sitting down with Liz Larson of the the Cogno movement, which was founded in 2017 by Bill McKenna while he was experimenting with ways to minimize pain for his clients, which Liz does talk about inside of this episode. So it's designed for the quick and powerful change of chronic problems and patterns. This system is useful for a wide range of problems that people experience daily, including cravings, habits, cycling, thought patterns, stress, relationship issues, low energy and moods. And she talks all about it. And in fact it's also very powerful for some of her athletes and athletic training, which we actually talk about. So their mission is to raise the consciousness of the planet by providing the highest level tools available for clearing old patterns and energies that have been holding our consciousness down and creating real and lasting change. And friends, I'm not going to lie to you. In this episode we talk a lot about the how she gives us a quick three minute clearing and in fact, right at the end of this episode she noticed that there was something in me that needed to be cleared and so we stopped recording and it was a powerful 30 minutes. I mean I literally, it's 7:30pm hours after we recorded this episode and I just cannot begin to explain how my entire central nervous system just seemed to be tingling. I was, I'm tired. I have a lot of of garbage just coming out of me. And it was transformative. And so I'm super excited for you to actually dive into this episode because it was a very powerful experience. And honestly, I'm so tired I cannot wait for what transpires in the next few days because it's just a very transformative experience. So I'm not going to spend a lot of time in this pre intro because Liz actually does talk a lot about her NLP Master Practitioner experience inside of this episode. She talks about how she got to where she is. And what she didn't share, which I'll share with you, is that she, before she got into this work, she was a CEO, a co creator and sales trainer in the car sales and repair industry for 12 years before she got into this transformation work. So I'm super excited for you to dive into this episode and I can't wait to hear your questions and your takeaways because we actually cover a lot. So without further ado, I'm going to go ahead and roll that interview. Liz, I'm so excited to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

I'm great. Beverly, thank you so much for the invitation. Just honored to be here.

This is going to be such a great episode. I'm super excited. So for those of you in the audience who don't know how amazing you can you please share a little bit with us about who you are, who you serve, what you do and how you got there.

Wow. I mean that is a lot of big topics. So I will do my best. So I am Liz Larson and I am the co developer of the Cogno Movement Systems, which is a cognitive movement therapy and man, my background is in serving clients with neuro linguistic programming, so. So my specialty is brain remapping and communications. And Bill McKenna is the founder of cognitive movement. And we were working on some other things together and Bill brought in this piece that was a physical therapy piece. He'd been working with clients and trying to help them change their pain more permanently. And so he brought me this weird little ball with these funny little symbols on it and he's like, hey, here's what I'm doing. And I'm like, that's just weird. And I have a lot of other tools to help people change their neurology, you know, and I don't have time for that in my life. So the way we work together, I actually was creating classes around his work and mine. And so at one point he wanted to teach other people how to do this, so I had to learn how to do it. So I started using with my clients and wham, it just caught fire. And we find that we can just change the way a person's body works so quickly that it feels like miracles. So anyway, my background is as a neuro linguistic programming practitioner, a master of that. I've studied a lot of brain science because both my parents have brain diseases. So that's where that came from for me. A passion project and became so fascinated about neuroplasticity that that plays right into this work as well, so I don't know if that answers all your questions.

It does, it does. And honestly, I love, I'm, I love nlp. I'm not a master yet, but I'm very familiar with the work and rewiring the brain. And I'm obsessed with the brain as well. Like my favorite books, you know, include, you know, the brain. I mean, there's just so many, I've got so many Body keeps the Score. I mean, everything about all the neuroplasticity and how things work. And I feel like this work is so important for trainers and for physical therapists because we're dealing, you know, we're dealing with clients and their behaviors all the time.

Yeah.

So it's way more than just, you know, what are you eating and what are, you know, what's your lifestyle and what's, you know, what's your workout. It's really about their behavior and how we can facilitate their consistency in their behavior.

Yeah. And I shared with you before we came on that my clientele are physical therapists and their clients and I actually have a couple that will require their client to come see me before they'll continue because they're just at a stopping point and they realize that there's something, some pattern in the body that is more on the emotional level that is affecting the physical. So they come to see me, we do that work and they go back to their physical therapist and now they can hold the postures. Now they can actually move on and solve the initial physical structural problem because the neurological has released. So it's fascinating, fascinating to work together with physical therapists in that way.

Now. I love this. So can you just share a little bit more? Like, would you mind going into a little bit more detail about the specifics of what you do when you're working with clients and their patients around the, you know, the pain, deception and around, you know, how you deal with the brain essentially.

Okay, so first of all, I just want to share my favorite on the brain plasticity is Norman Doidge the ways the brain heals or the brain that heals itself.

Like heals itself. That's the book I was thinking of. It is.

Oh my gosh. I probably listened to each of those five times. I took my NLP training over a two year period in Seattle and I'm in Southern Oregon, so it's like seven hours. And I'd listen to those books again and again and again and again. Those are my favorites. Ok, so the work, so we deal with first, the ways the body learns. We Prepare the body to learn. So auditory, visual and kinesthetic are the three ways that we take in information. So most of this audience I know knows what kinesthetic means, but if you don't, it's touch through the physical touch. So that's the first thing we do. Second thing is that we use this funny little tool. And I said that Bill had this funny little ball. And I know you can see it, but your audience can't. It's just a soccer ball style. We have two and it has complex geometric symbol. They do happen to be chakra symbols, but that's not the point. The point is that they're complex geometric and color. The color and the geometry speaks to the left side of the brain. The linear, the kinesthetic and the touch and the shape speak to the right side of the brain. Immediately we're getting left and right activated. Next, we use cross body movement to harmonize the left and the right side of the body. While we're having the visual notice complex symbol and color and the voice say the color out loud, telling you it's actually quite hard when you start. Then we move the brain through emotion in the body and eyes down, position neutrality between about the heart and the eyeballs. And then inspiration and ideas above. We're essentially challenging the neurology. Now. The big difference in cognitive movement and so many other modalities is we are not talking to the logical mind. We are working with the brain, but we are talking to the physical body. Our premise is that the subconscious really is the physical body. Not just the right brain, but the physical body. We're challenging the electromagnetic signal between the sensation in the body and the part of the brain where the memory piece lives. It's a closed circuit. The body has a feeling, the brain makes up a story about it. The brain makes up a pretty good story. And the body has a bigger feeling. Now the body says, oh, we have a bigger feeling. Okay, send that to the brain. Brain makes up an even bigger story. So we've got this closed circuit running all the time, actually using up a massive amount of horsepower, your physical body. So people will say energy. We're not talking about woo woo energy. We're talking about your horsepower. What you, your natural amount of energy. And a lot of times this circuit will have to do with a trauma in life. Or I'll share a fun story with you next, but a non issue. But at the time that your brain is developing and at the age that particular incident feels like a massive trauma and the body will create a protective Pattern, just like stove is hot protective pattern. You don't have to relearn that. Stove is hot and it hurts if you touch. Right. Really, really good system because if you had to relearn that every time you'd be covered in burns. But the body, the limbic system does the exact same thing. Creates another autonomic neural pattern for any perceived trauma. And the perceived trauma is what's really the interesting part here. So I know that was a lot of words, but that's kind of the core of what we do.

So good. So fascinating. And you referenced the Gregory Batson's or Bateson's logical level. Like this is exactly like how we go from you know, thought, story, feeling and then it becomes belief and then we get to our identity level. And to me this is super fascinating and I totally love this is like I can really talk about this. So I like 10 years. But you know, one of the things that you wanted. Tell us the story. Tell us.

Okay, this is my favorite story. And this story actually comes from nlp and, and it was the thing that got me just on fire fascinated about it was this little weird four day weekend seminar where, you know, you couldn't learn anything. But it was a sampler platter, right. So the practitioner tells this story of a woman who has, she's 28, she has depression her whole life and she just cannot have a relationship to save her life. It just doesn't work. Goes in about two weeks. Love, relationships and fizzles. Bad relationship with mom, bad relationship with sibling. And the family had gone to therapy. She'd been through many, many years of therapy and just couldn't figure out why she felt so in love. So this NLP practitioner takes her back on what's called the timeline. And they go to five minutes before this incident happened. Well, our bodies actually totally remember everything they do, but our conscious mind doesn't necessarily. Not things from four. This woman, it went back to four years old. Now this is where her trauma quote, unquote, if you could see my fingers happened. They were at a picnic and her mom gave her sister a popsicle but not her. That was the trauma. Now her four year old brain thought mom loves sister and not me, so I must be unworthy. So there's the injury, there's the stove hot, right? Body, brain. So that hurts. Now we're going to set up a protective program to match that. So now at 10, you know, when maybe she's rejected by the frenemies at school. Let's put that one in. Because people don't love me now at 12, when the boy that she likes doesn't like her. Let's put that in People don't love me. Right now we're having these huge stacks on top of this one trauma. Now the real story of that trauma was the reason she didn't get popsicle. She hadn't eaten her sandwich yet. And the truth of the story was her sister did. And she also got her popsicle after she ate her sandwich. But the damage was already done. Mom doesn't love me. Now, we would all consider that an absolute non issue. That's not an issue. But it is. It was enough for the body to set up a protective pattern. Watch for people who don't love you because people that you trust are going to hurt you. Like mom, who doesn't give me a popsicle. So fast forward in this story. Give everybody the relief that particular practitioner was skilled enough to eliminate that story. But that carried with me all the years until we ran into Cogno movement, when I had a real explanation for that. And it is a closed circuit within our nervous system. That's what our nervous system does. It sends an electrical, hormonal and chemical loop round and round, round and round, round and round. And every one of those stacks like the frenemies and the first boyfriend and the next 15 boyfriends, right? Add energy and add power, more electricity, more horsepower to that one pattern. To the point where her life just didn't work. When you remove the core of it, when you remove the signal, not only just the trauma, but the electromagnetic, hormonal pathway, neural pathway, when you can pluck that out and delete it, the body forgets all about it. Because what's true, and most of us don't realize the brain doesn't give a crap about anything that the body has no emotion for. When we, we call them deleted because they really are deleted. Like deleting a program from a computer, the person will get amnesia. Terrible for business. But when we follow up in a week, they'll say, what? What are you talking about? What problem? Well, you know, the one about the, you know, you don't feel lovable. Oh, that wasn't a big deal. They literally have no recollection or very little that that was ever a problem. Simply because it's not in the logical mind. It's in this neural pathway that, as it turns out, is very, very easily plucked out.

Okay, so I definitely want to talk more about the. How you actually start to do that. Like the brain, you know, creating different neural pathways. Because from What I understand, it's like you. Once it's created, it doesn't get to necessarily disappear. You just make a different choice, and you get to, like, instead going left, you can't go. You know, the right is always there, but you just make the choice to go left. So I'm a little. I do want to go talk more about that, but before I do that, I'm just curious, like, in your work, you know, I feel like this stuff is so powerful, and I know that I'm. I've worked with a lot of NLP masters, and I love it. But I'm curious of, like, what is your level of believability, for lack of a better word, or more of like the like. You know, most people don't realize that traumas like that are the cause, are the root cause. So what? Instead, not believability is the wrong word, but what's the journey of recognizing and realizing the true root cause of, you know, current circumstance, feelings?

Okay, so this is where this gets really fun and where it separates itself from even nlp, even psychology and what you might think happens in the logical mind. So one thing that does come from NLP is you don't want to talk about the why, because the why elicits story. And while that's a really cool story about the popsicle in this work, it's absolutely unnecessary to have any idea where it came from. Now, the caveat is that lots of times as the process is happening, it'll throw up that signal. You'll see the memory of it, but it's for about 30 seconds, and then it's gone. So we don't have to know any of that. What we have to know is what's going on in your life. That's a problem. So a very recent physical therapy client that I saw, a physical therapist sent her to me. She was very athletic, a skier. She's a yoga instructor. But she has all this lower body pain, and they just could not get her out of that pain, and they couldn't get her ribcage to move to the left no matter what happened. This is a very accomplished pri, trained therapist. She's like, look, you got to go, because there's something going on here. My work is not to. To psychoanalyze her. I'm not a psychologist, not a therapist. My work is, where's that pain now? Hold on to it now. Focus your attention on it. Don't try to get away from it, because we try to get away from our pain. Focus your attention on that. Pain. Now, while we're focused on the pain, pain has a pattern. The body does its thing right. You know, I'm in pain now, I'm tired now, I'm sad now, whatever, it has its pattern that it runs every time the same way. So what we do is we focus on that pain and we have the person give it 100%, well, 90% of their attention. And the rest of their attention is on this color and symbol. Auditory, visual, kinesthetic, cross body, low to high movement. And they're focused on that sensation in the body. Focused on it. Now what happens is like your whole life passes before your eyes. And the person will be furious, then crying, then laughing in three minutes as they move up the body, because the body has no idea what the heck we're doing to it. This neurological pathway is literally being challenged in a way it's never been challenged before. You don't focus on your pain and then move a weird ball around. You don't focus on your pain and then be asked for your eyes to move in positions that they just don't move in so very, very quickly. That neurological pathway is so challenged and doing things that it's never done before. Like you said, oh, you get to choose to go left or right. This pathway is now being forced to do something it's never done before, and it just simply collapses and it can never run that way again. The neural pathway is literally disrupted. So imagine a circuit, electrical circuit, you know, a closed circuit. When you put something in its way, that circuit is interrupted. But if you pull it out, it can run again. If you unplug the power source, which is what we're doing from that circuit, it's collapsed. Without its power source, it can't run. And that's what happens in the physical body. So we find that if we can very completely change that neural pathway, it is essentially deleted. It's not something that creeps back in. However, if we get it down to maybe from a 10 to a three and we don't clear it out, it will stay at that lower level, but it is not completely deleted. So we work to get it completely to where the discomfort in the body or sensation period is gone. So another story I have is of a therapist, a highly accomplished therapist, had a sensation of not feeling loved, not even by God. And where we found it was in a pin prick. And the feeling, a pin prick sensation in the bottom of her foot. That was the sensation that was it. Not a pain, not a nothing terrible, just this pin prick in the bottom of her Foot. And when that sensation was alleviated, all of a sudden the realization came to mind, oh, my God, that's what it feels like to feel loved at all. You know, Now I know what people say mean, when I feel the love of God, that's how she felt. And it was just that little sensation. So tiny sensation and big sensation is our wheelhouse. That's where we work.

Fascinating. Okay, so now would you mind, you know, you shared a little bit, but would you mind going deeper and talking, talking a little bit more about the how, like some of the how stuff that you're working on to delete that actual neural pathway.

Okay, so again, we move low to high up the body. So we move the body through what are called eye accessing cues. And that does come from nlp, but we take it to several other levels where your eyes move. So imagine that you're seeing a person with their eyes down and their head down. What's the first thing you think of?

Me, I guess I would think of, like, they're sad.

Yeah, exactly. So eyes down position is physical body emotion. It's just how our brain works. When we're sad, we move our eyes down. If you've ever been to a funeral or a sad event, you'll see people whip their eyes upward and kind of do this with their, you know, I'm shaking my hands to not cry. Disconnects from the physical, from the emotional. So in the eyes down position, we connect with the physical. So that's the first thing we're doing is we're having people connect with their physical body in the way they don't normally do. We move them through neutrality. So it's this zone between the chest and the eyebrows. Now imagine you see somebody staring off into the space with their mouth half open. Like, what do you think?

Daydreaming, not paying attention.

Not, not in, not present, not spaced out. Neutral. Right. We know it, we recognize it, but we don't usually pay attention to that. Now if you see somebody with their finger on their chin and their eyes up like this, now, what do you think?

So for me, because I'm a visual learner, I know, like that's someone who. Trying to recall something. They're thinking.

Thinking, yeah. So eyes up, straight up to the sides, it's a little different. You've got visual recall and constructed recall, but right here you're an inspiration and ideas. So the number one thing is we're moving you while focused on that sensation in the body. Now remember, we don't usually do that. We don't give our attention to sensation in our body, we push it away. So while focusing on that, we are now moving people that is just one level through emotion, through neutrality, and into ideas and inspiration. It changes the way that pathway runs. That's the first level. Two, we're using cross body while we do it, harmonizing the left and the right. I don't know. I'm sure this audience knows. Moving cross body helps all kinds of things. If you've ever been to a chiropractor, they'll have you do cross crawl. Using a crawling motion helps connections in the brain. So kids with dyslexia, that's one of the methods you use. We're utilizing that piece of how the brain works in the crossbody. And then we're having them call out color and symbol at the same time. Left and right brain are fully active. We're pushing information back and forth across the corpus callosum. Another layer is we are moving eyes in extreme positions. So it's another piece when we move the eyes in extreme positions. Right. Now move your eyes down like you're looking through your chin. Like really extreme. Like look through your, the side of your chin towards your shoulder. Now turn your head towards me. Now move your eyes down. How comfortable is that?

So uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable, right. So we do that in 360 degrees around the head in a very extreme way. And what we'll see is we'll see the eyes move in a way that's called an astigma. Do you know what an astigma says?

No.

Sure. It's a, it's a big word for the eyes do a little shiver. They do a little shake.

Dang. When I brought my eyes back, I felt like I could feel them go like big, wide. And then like camera refocusing. I felt a little bit like as I brought it back.

Yeah. So that's the next piece. We're forcing the eyes in these extreme positions. And. Well, one, it's actually really good for your eyes, for the muscles in your eyes. But two, it connects with places in the brain that we don't normally use. These are where a lot of our memories, the other end of these circuits are held. A person will see a whole lifetime in these strange movements around the head. It's just another way for the circuit to run in a way it's never run before. And it allows people. You ask that how, like, how do you see that four year old story? In that process, people will see a lifetime. And what it sounds like is unicorns. My dad's mustache, a banana, a slide when I was 10. Like, it sounds so crazy in the person's mind. They'll say, oh, my God, I just saw. Well, I'll share with you. 1. A woman believed that her mom had never been there for her. She felt very abandoned by her mother. And as we did, just this piece, just this moving the eyes in this extreme position. And that's what it sounded like. Like, unicorn, banana. Like, what she was saying out loud. She said, oh, my God. I realized my mom was there every step of the way. She may not have had the tools emotionally, but I saw her. She was physically there. I just didn't remember. So that changed her whole perspective about her whole life in about two minutes. But the neural pathway that had her feeling my mom wasn't there, it was now eliminated. It's gone. And she happens to be one of our practitioners. So this was about three years ago when it was in her practitioner training that that happened. And I asked her. I had the opportunity to ask her about it last week, and she's like. I thought what I said, do you remember? And then she had to really think. She said, oh, my God, you're 100% right. I did think that. How do you feel about it now? She said, oh, I know that. I absolutely know she was there. I know that she had her limitations, but she really was there. So it didn't creep back in. It's not a storyline that will ever play out again because the neurological pathway is. Is gone.

That's so powerful.

Did I go out in left field with that? I'm sorry if I did.

You didn't know. I mean, I love it. I think that it's awesome. But it does lead me to this next question. Is that, like, you know, how do you. You know, what are some of the. Like, what do you ever get faced with people that are like, what, this is voodoo quackery? This is not true. Like, what do you. Like, how do you navigate those, you know, perceived beliefs about this work?

Well, one thing is those people don't come to see us. And. And two, it's very, very technical. So, you know, I mean. Well, the truth is, I guess, you know, I would be in the healer category. I'm a technician. I am a neurological detective. My job, if you're in front of me or on zoom, is I am literally watching every detail of how your nervous system moves. I know where your eyes go. I can see the color in your skin. I can tell if your ears are level. You know, I mean, I'm literally watching your neurology and then running through what we. What science knows, what, you know, Dr. Deutsch shared about how the physical body holds itself and holds on to memory. So the people that come to me, often, because they're referred through their doctor, they don't question it. I also do my due diligence, and I have people come on a discovery call and I show them what we're going to do. But it's quite technical. With cogno movement, we have a whole course that people can take online and do it themselves where breaks it down. But people that come to us, they've done everything else. They've done everything else, and they're people who finally want to create change, period. End of story. So things like peripheral neuropathy, we have a study going right now. This is very, very effective at that. How can that be? How is the question. Well, we have backup sets of nerves that once one turns off, another turns on so they can be rerouted. People with other chronic problems in their life where they're very, very aware, it's a pattern. It's just a pattern. That's our wheelhouse. We're just deleting the pattern. But mostly what happens is they feel at work and they don't care. They just don't care how. They're usually like, I feel like a different person. Is that normal? Yep. You are a different person. Your nervous system is running a different way than it ever did before. Okay, thank you. And then we follow up about seven days later, and we ask a set of funny questions. How's your overall energy? Like, what does it feel like to get out of bed in the morning now? Better, worse are the same. What is your focus? Like, can you focus, sit down and do something you want to do? Because people with chronic problems, they can't sit down and focus. Their mind is everywhere. You know, they're trying to get away from their pain or get away from their problem or solve it. So how's your focus? How's your creativity? We've literally had masterpieces created after. After a session from a person who didn't paint because now they have that energy back. We ask about their sleep and we ask about how their relationships have changed. Because many times they don't really recall why they came in the first place. We ask these questions. They'll be like, oh, my God, I just realized I'm getting along with my husband in a way I've never gotten along before. And they came because their hip wouldn't go back into place. Right. What does that have to do with anything? Or like I said, we've had people who painted a masterpiece or people who are now completing dissertations where they were absolutely blocked. So, I mean, the effect is all about the return of the horsepower to the body. And then the brain does amazing things with it. The body does amazing things with that energy. So I don't know. I mean, I guess after the fact, I don't really have to prove much of anything because. Yeah. And people who come are just ready.

Totally. All right, so I've got two big questions. Right. Came up from what you're talking about. So we talk. I'm curious, you know, you mentioned that people could literally do this work themselves, that you, like, have a course and stuff. But I'm curious, you know, that you, you mentioned, like, you know, traumas that we hold on to that can be small, but people go through big T traumas.

Yep.

So, you know, and for some people don't even recognize or realize they, like blackout experiences. So I'm curious, you know, how do you create that safe space for somebody to, like, live through that or heal from those big T traumas like has? And that's come up, undoubtedly, right?

Yeah. Oh, absolutely, Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'm going to say something that may go fly in the face of what a lot of people know about psychology. The body doesn't discriminate against I didn't get a popsicle or I was raped. The body creates a protective pattern. It is an injury, period, end of story. What happens next to the body and to the brain is what determines. So, you know, in a rape situation, if a person was cared for and treated and respected and nurtured and, yeah, you know, that's going to be a big deal, but they'll have worked through it if they. If they never worked through it and then it happens again, or people disrespect them or doctors don't take them seriously, those become bigger and bigger and bigger. So the initial trauma, whether it's popsicle or rape, the body handles it the same. It's what happens next that's the issue. So with cognitive movement, because we're going in through the physical body, that rape, you know, it's not still happening. It's not happening now. It only happens again and again in the brain when we pull it back from the past. So it's the pattern. It's the pattern that is the problem, not the initial circumstance. The pattern. How the body runs that pattern. How much energy and time does the body spend living there? This brilliant psychologist Marina Ray, cognitive movement practitioner as well. She said, a problem is only a problem from the past because we're thinking about it now. So in the now, in the moment, we have the person feel wherever that is in their body. So if it's a Popsicle, maybe it's the whole heart that they feel this pressure and pain and tension. If it's a rape, maybe it's their ankle that just will not function the way it's supposed to function. Now, I know that sounds strange, but with our physical therapy clients, I mean, that's where it'll be. How is it playing out in your body? Well, my hips won't align, I can't keep my shoulder in place, My ankle hurts. I have this pain in my wherever. So because we are not going in and directly focusing on the trauma itself, the story about it, remember that our brain almost never tells the truth. It tells the story based on how we feel. Every time that situation is recalled, even if it's an unconscious recollection in the body, everything that's happening at that moment gets attached to that story. This really comes from NLP as well, that the truth is most of our memories are a corrupt file based on an initial injury and then everything else that has become attached to it. Another reason why we just don't focus on the why, because the why elicits a story that is inaccurate. What we are interested in how is your body demonstrating that today? Let's give it 100% of our focus. Let's work this weird pattern so that the neurology is interrupted. Pattern, interrupt you'll recognize from NLP2, but interrupted in a way that it just can't find it again. And what happens next is, does it change the person that they've never had that situation? No. But what it does is when it comes to the mind, the body doesn't have the other end. The body doesn't have a feeling about it anymore. What happens is they can remember it kind of. But because the body doesn't react the way it did before, and maybe even the way you've been told you're supposed to react, the brain just forgets it. It's like, okay, I don't care about that. We don't have an emotion for it anymore. So this work works tremendous for grief. It allows the brain to know I've had a loss, but it doesn't stay in the pattern of shock, of fight or flight. It doesn't have the limbic system on fire 24 7. It allows the brain to know, yes, that happened. To me. But the body just doesn't have a sensation around it anymore. So now the brain can actually do its logical thing. Oh, you know what, that actually did happen to me in the past. But now, you know, I've survived and I'm doing better and I'm, I'm going to move on with my life. It's the body that holds the person back. That constant sensation and the drain of the energy running it that holds them back. Did that answer it?

Gosh, yes. And it's so fascinating to me because it's just so, it's, you know, something bad could happen and then your body takes that experience and then shows up in your ankle and it's very, you know, like, well, it's hard. No one's ever going to be like, oh, I've got pain in my ankle. That must mean, you know, I didn't get a pop school when I was a kid. Like that. Hard to find that, you know. And I've shared this on the podcast recently, so it's not an accident you're here, but I actually don't have any memories from my childhood.

Very interesting.

Very, very few. And it's funny because when I shared that on the podcast, people were dming me.

Like, me too, me too.

And I was really fascinated by how many people, you know, hadn't. Don't have their memories.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and I'll share too, because I'm very transparent, is that there is part of me that feels fear around doing any of this type of work because I'm scared of what I will see.

Yeah, okay, so that's sort of fascinating. And do you mind if we go full woo woo for about five seconds?

Sure.

Okay. So this works amazing for people who feel like they're an experiencer of some kind, some paranormal, you know, experience, because, you know, they'll be like, you know, some people go to regressions for that and for issues like you're talking about, but they don't like hypnosis. So this work allows for all of that, the tiny fragments of the memory to come together in a way that the body doesn't relive it. So it eliminates that fear factor of it. It also eliminates whatever is running in the undercurrent in the subconscious. It becomes a safe place. And I just want to say too, this is not in the place of talk therapy. This is not in the place of a therapist. Many of the people who've seen us have been to therapy for years and their therapist will send them to because they can't progress. They can't seem to move on. They're stuck in that place in time.

Okay. I mean, that's amazing.

Okay.

So I am also curious, you know, how, you know, what are some of the signs or, you know, I want to. I'll just say signs or symptoms that people will be like, okay, we need to do some cognitive work.

Gosh, it's almost everything. I mean, I hate that when people say, oh, this does everything, but it kind of does, because the nervous system is what runs all that. We are all that we do. So in my personal clientele, in my office, because it's physical therapists that send them to me, it's that no matter what they do, the body will not move in the way they need it to move. Or a person will get to a place in their life where they want to do something more. They want something more, and they just can't get there. They're stuck. Stuckness is the number one thing. I just can't move forward.

That's when people recommend you, and they're like, okay, let's go do this work. That's fascinating. And I'm curious too. Like, when you say stuck, do you specifically mean stuff stuck in movement, or do you also mean, like, stuck in, Like, I can't move my business forward. I can't. I can't stop healing. You know, I can't. You know, I can't heal from this trauma. That I should know better, but I can't do better. Like those types of things.

Yeah, all of the above, actually. We. I work with a lot of business people. It's interesting because they'll come and they'll be like, oh, it's my shoulder, but what's underneath that? Well, I'm. You know, I have this business partner who is screwing me over. Okay, there it is. With people who are just have fear of moving forward in their life. That's a big thing. Fear is just the limbic system. It's just fight or flight. Yeah. So it'll create stuckness. Right. Or relationships. So I'll tell another story. And this is a lot of fun we have. People come so often women. I'm sick of my husband. I'm divorcing him. I just want to feel a little better and figure it out. Right. So they come and we work through how their body feels. Just how their body feels about it, not the story. I mean, a lot of people will tell some of the story, but it isn't about that. It's how the body feels. Right. And maybe they want to leave their husband, but they also have shoulder pain or neck pain or numbness, Right? What happens is we unwind the program in their system, we undo that neurological pattern. And at the end, all of a sudden, they'll say, oh, my God, I don't realize. I actually really love him. This had nothing to do with him. This was me. Or they'll go home, and all of a sudden, now their husband seems like a completely different person. The perspective has changed so much that everybody else saw him as fantastic, but she couldn't, because she was holding him in the pattern, whatever the negative pattern was. She was holding him through her neurology, not even realizing it. This is the only perspective she can have. So we see that again and again and again, where people come and they're certain their life is this way, and when they leave, they're certain their life is completely another way. And it's all about how the neurology holds us in our own patterns.

My gosh, it's so fascinating. Okay, this will be the last question, because I definitely want to be mindful of your time, but I am curious. Have you ever had the opposite, like, someone come into you and be like, oh, yeah, my relationship's fine, and then do some of this work and then realize, oh, my gosh, this is not fine.

I personally have never had that. But what I have had is people who really. The relationship has come to an end, but they didn't know how to get out of it. They didn't know how to be at peace and be rational and be compassionate. They didn't know what their own role in it was. That's the big thing that happens with cognitive movement, aside from the body changing and eliminating pain, is that the perspectives change because the neurological patterns hold our perspective in a particular way. So even if the relationship is over now, they may leave with a really, a lot of compassion for the other being in the relationship, the other person, and be able to end it in a much more friendly, easy way or be very, very sure within themselves that that's what they want to do. So powerful.

Okay, So I definitely, definitely want to be mindful of your time. So for those of you who want to learn more about your work and working, you know, doing this for themselves, for their clients, you know, where should I. Where should I move them? Where's the best place to find you?

So it's@cognomovement.com Tim and we have what is called basic training. And anybody can learn it. It comes with two cogno balls, one is a soccer style, and one is more of a beach ball style. And we break it down. Here's the steps, here's what you do. Just really break it down. Then there are three full sessions led by my business partner, Bill McKinnon, the founder. One is for emotions, one is for pain, physical body, and one is for cravings. This work eliminates cravings so fast and so completely, you can't believe it. And it's very, very easy. And then it contains troubleshooting. Like if you're not getting the result you want, here's what you might try. The other thing that we didn't get to cover, and I'll just touch on it really quickly, is that this is amazing. For athletes. We can create change in the body in about three minutes. It's a bit of a different set because we're not going into emotion, but we are going into. They want the body to move this way and it's moving that way. So we unwind that neurological pattern and then reinstall one that they want. In one of my out of basketball pro hopeful, you know, trying out for teams in Europe, and we had him jumping 12 inches higher in about five minutes. So it's huge. This, this work can be applied to anything. And in the basic training, a person could actually use it for that as well.

That's amazing. Okay, I know I said last question, but I swear, really is going to.

Be the last one. Okay. Okay, it's fine.

So amazing. So, you know, you kind of touched on it, but I was just curious, like, what's the time frame? Like, how long does it usually take people to start seeing the results.

So the results are instantaneous. And having that said, you can change your state or your mood or your energy in one minute. You can change being stuck in about three minutes. There's a tool I can teach. In fact, I could teach your audience that. If you want it, please do wanna do it. Okay, we'll do it. So this is just one little piece. So cognitive movement is a compilation of many, many different modalities and things that we do and we switch them up and change them up. We're always challenging the neurology in different ways. So this is one that anybody can use and you can use it right now if you have, if you're feeling a little stuck. So I know a lot of your audience are business people. So let's say that you have a, something you want to do, like maybe new marketing or a piece of equipment you need to buy, or maybe a new class you want to take, but you're just not sure. Right. So here's what you do. Find something, if you have a ball or something that will hold your attention, an object that you can hold in your hands. And you take that object. You can see me, but I know your audience can't. And you move your eyes downward, so down, like you're looking at your chest.

And you're holding the object.

Object. You're gonna hold the object.

Do you want it to be round?

No, it doesn't have to be round. It just has to be holdable. And having a color and a shape is a good thing. Okay. Okay. So remembering that color and shape speak to one side of the body or one side of the brain. Color and symbol, and the other side is shape and touch. So we're hitting all those. So you'd bring that to mind. Man, I really want to do this thing, but I just don't know. I don't have the money. I don't have the time. Right. Just bring the story to mind and notice how the body feels about it. Yeah. So just notice, like, maybe it's in the pit of the stomach, or maybe it's in the throat, or maybe it's in the chest, or maybe it's in the hands. Right. Whatever it is, you're just going to give your body the attention the way it feels about that like you never have before. Notice it. Oh, that's weird. My stomach hurts when I think about this project. Or my shoulder does, or my ankle, whatever it is. Now you're going to begin to move that object to the left and to the right in a little arc from shoulder to shoulder. Yep. And let your eyes follow. They have to follow the whole time. And you start to tell the story out loud. So it might sound like this, wow, you know, I really want to take that class, but I don't think I have the money for it. And I would have to travel and maybe I'd have to wear a mask, and that would suck. Whatever the story is, you just tell it out loud and let your eyes move. You gotta follow the thing with your eyes. So about a minute, maybe two, depending on how long this story is. And you're gonna really tell the truth about it. All the things. Okay, next you're going to move that object to your left. Or what is this? My right shoulder? Right shoulder, all the way to the shoulder. And remember that thing before where we let our eyes follow? So you're gonna have your head forward, head forward. And let your eyes stretch to that object. Okay. Now you're gonna move it from your shoulder all the way up to your eyebrows, straight up, like, right up the side of your head up to your ear. And you're gonna follow it with your eyes. It's uncomfortable, right?

Yes.

So this is the hard part. You really got to keep your eyes in it. Now you're going to tell that story again. Now we're in the left brain because we're on the right side. So you're going to tell the story again. Man, I want to take that class, but I just don't know. And the plane and the people and the money. Right? So all the way up and down. Keep moving the ball up and down. Slowly telling the story out loud. Keep your head forward. Don't cheat. Let the eyes stretch.

It is so. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, so. And it would be funny how the story changes on that side. So for about a minute, you're going to just tell the story out loud. Let your eyes stretch. I know.

It is so hard.

It's so hard, isn't it? Okay, now you're going to move it to the left side, right about the shoulder. Head forward. Let your eyes go to the. To the object. Now we're in the right brain. Creative, emotional. And we're going to tell that story one more time. So move that ball up and down slowly. Tell them the story. Let your eyes follow. Let them follow. Let them follow. There we go. All the way up. All the way up. Yeah. And you're telling the story out loud. The plane and the money and the people and the. Whatever else it is. About a minute. About a minute. Good. And you want to breathe. Don't hold your breath. Okay, so the last piece is you're going to move the ball up over your head so the chin down and the eyes up. Remember we talked about that idea is an inspiration area. We're just going to tick tock the ball over the top of the head like a. Like a headband. We're going to tell that story one more time. All about the reasons and the plane and the problems and the issues and the. What else is possible. Let your chin drop. Yep. Is your eyes uncomfortable there? Let your eyes follow. Yeah. So for about a minute. That exercise, I promise you, will absolutely give you a new perspective on that issue and you will come away, like, with a brand new idea of how that's going to work and a change in the way the body feels.

Oh, yeah. My body feels completely like. Well, it was very interesting because it goes really quiet. Like, at first you could. I feel Like, I could like. And my room's quiet, but it got even quieter, and I almost, like, heard ringing in the ears. I feel a little dizzy right now, but it'll be yes. Yeah, it'll get clear. That was so hard.

I know.

So fun. That's amazing. I can't wait. I'm going to make those. If you are listening to this, tag us, Tell us what you what came up for us, because this is amazing.

Now, the biggest thing with that is you've got to let the eyes stretch. It will hurt.

It does hurts.

It does. And where the eyes don't want to move, it hurts the most. And if you spend a little time there, that's the biggest bang for your buck. I will share with you. Beverly, you have a spot where your eyes don't want to move. Tell me. Get off camera. Yeah, we'll work it. So right about your auditory level on your. That you think it's your left side. That's your left. Left side.

This is my left. This is my right.

Yeah, left side. So in the right brain, right about the auditory level, ears to eyebrow, your eyes want to skip. They don't want to look right there. That's your sweet spot. If you can work there, you will find you will change something big.

Oh, my gosh. I can't wait. Okay, that's amazing, because it's really funny that you say that, though, because I actually felt like I had a harder time on my right. On my right side. Yeah, but, you know, we started there, so that's also part of the, like, this is a new sensation.

Yeah. You know, well, we do this all the time. I mean, I literally do this work for myself every day. I do three minutes, whether I like it or not, just to get my brain going. I'm an ideas person. You knew Talk about that. Neurological levels and the identity. Mine is ideas. Like, literally. So I will use this because I want all the ideas. And I used to be a person that would get an idea and be frustrated. I mean, severely frustrated. Paralyzing frustration that I didn't think about that idea two weeks ago or two years ago. I mean, so for a person who loves ideas, who's frustrated by every idea, think about how that worked out for me. It didn't. So now I just clear that out of my system, and I get the best ideas, and there's no frustration. I am allowed now in my body to write them down, save them for later, think about them some more, and maybe disregard them. It's not the end of the world that I Didn't think about it two years ago or a year ago. I mean, freedom. So that's what I do with it. But why I started to tell you that is every day when I do it, I will find a spot in my vision that is sore. So it's that my mind on that subject is not. There's a spot that is sticky. And so if I spend my time and I work that out, then I have that part of my brain available where I know that I wouldn't have had before. So.

So in theory, you don't. You only need to do this once and then you can move on to something else.

Yeah. Yes. So you did ask me about time, so I want to be fair about that. One to three minutes can make a change. If it's huge, it may take to be completely gone. You know, it may take an hour, it may take 90 minutes. But what I'll tell you is at minute one and minute 30, you're not working on the same thing. You're working on some layers of that. So if a person comes to see me for the first time, their session is three hours. Why? Because like I said, I'm a neurological detective and I'm going to ask you about your life and about what you want and I'm going to watch every inch of what moves. But if you're doing it for yourself, 20 minutes is what you need. I mean, you're not going to examine yourself like I am, right? Yeah. Then we're going to start the work and a session with me, you'll probably hit your whole life. I mean, you'll see your whole life pass before your eyes. So when you leave, it's not just one issue. You've gotten a whole, whole stack. But when I do it for myself and when other people do it for themselves, it's that one issue. What do I need to clear? What do I need to get my body aligned with now? What program do I need to delete to just do the next thing I want to do in my life? That's it. So can I be out of pain? You know, can I get unstuck around this idea? Can I not be so furious at my business partner or my mate that I can't see straight? Right. What can I do to change my state right now that will have an impact on the rest of my life? That's what we're talking about. And you know, three minutes to an hour, it's all you need.

Liz, this has been absolutely mind blowing and so fascinating, I just cannot wait. This is going to be the most downloaded episode on the PT Profit podcast. So thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Anything else? Like, anything else we wanted to send them to?

No, no, just cognitive movement.com and I know we talked about a lot of weird stuff today, so I just want to acknowledge that. But we have a free ebook. It is called Suffering is Optional and it is our motto. You know, you can suffer as much as you want, you can have your pain. That's what life's about. But now you have a choice to get out of that whenever you want to end the suffering piece. So we always say suffering is optional. And when you learn cognitive movement, now you choose. I either want to be in my sweatpants with greasy hair eating a tub of ice cream all day, or I don't. Now I have the choice. Now it doesn't have to take three weeks, right. When you're upset about something. So that's a free downloadable ebook and it's got. It tells how and why and there's some really great stories and really great test results there. Visual images where you can see the physical changes in the body that some of the test results show the amount of joules, the amount of energy that the body is now producing where it wasn't before. So the how, the why, the what, it's all in that free downloadable ebook. So that's available and then link that up. Yeah. And then if you're getting the idea that this might be for you, basic training is a place to start and you get to keep it. It's yours. You can do as many sessions as you want, guided by us, and make as much change as you want to.

It's amazing. So, Liz, thank you so much. This has been brilliant.

Thanks so much for having me. It's such a fun conversation.

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