On Training and Being Relatable to Your Clients with Jackie Lindal

What's up, coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and if this is the first time you're hanging out with me today, welcome. I'm super pumped that you're here. I'm really excited to bring today's episode to you. Today I have Jackie Lindell, who is with me on the show today, and we are specifically talking a lot about how Jujitsu changed her life, how what it was like to change careers, how to handle burnout with content, also how to really stay relatable, stay on the cutting edge of training, and really connect with your clients on a deeper level so that you can stay consistent, help them get results. And without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner, and this podcast where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance and movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up, Jackie? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

How are you? I am excellent. How are you?

I am doing great. I'm super excited for today's episode. So thank you so much for joining me and I'd love for you to share a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

Amazing. Well, thank you for having me. So my name is Jackie. I am a personal trainer and I work with busy women. I mean, who doesn't work with busy women? But I work with busy women who really want to build their healthiest bodies, feel great, confident, strong, badass ladies, and don't have a ton of time to spend in the gym. They don't want to be in the gym for two hours a day, six days a week. So helping them streamline their workouts and get them real results, but also not kill them with cardio or cutting carbs and all that other fitness industry bs.

Yeah.

Okay.

How did you get there?

So I started with my own fitness journey, as I feel like a lot of us start there with our own fitness journey. So I was quite active when I was young, growing up on a farm and playing sports and all that kind of stuff. But then of course, going to college got a lot less active. And then starting in my former career as a veterinary technician being. It's a. It was kind of an active job, but I wasn't really doing any other activity outside of that. And I had started jiu jitsu when I was quite young, about 11 years old. And I continued that throughout most of my adult life. But we got into. My husband and I were more of a teaching role rather than an actual active participation. I found that I just. I fell out of shape. And I remember going to. I was thinking about this earlier. What really kind of ignited my spark in needing to change my own fitness was we went to this seminar where it was a wrestling seminar, and it was great. It was ran by these two girls who were just awesome and they were strong and they were so informative and I was so just in awe of how amazing they were. But I was gassed after the warmup. Embarrassingly gassed. And I was one of the youngest people at this seminar. And I was like, huffing and puffing and having a hard time keeping up. It was so embarrassing. And it was after that, I remember saying to my husband, like, holy cow, I suck. Not a great mentality to have, but it was where I was at at the time. I was like, I am so out of shape. This is awful. And I was in like my mid-20s and totally out of shape. So it wasn't too long after that the new year had kind of come about in 2015, and I realized, like, I needed to do something. And over the years, I had yog yo. I would work out for three weeks, and then you'd never see my face in the gym for like a month and a half. And then I go, you know, for two or three workouts, really great. And then I wouldn't go back. So it was this yo yo cycle and this all or nothing mentality that I had. And I finally, Honestly, it was just. I had an epiphany one day when I was leaving the gym, and I was like, I feel so great. How do I keep feeling so great after my workouts? And then there was like a little voice in the back of my head that was like, well, maybe if you just like stopped stopping and you just kept going, you might actually, like, reach your goals. And I was like, oh, I never thought about that before. I never thought about just, like keeping going. So it was literally like that light bulb, like switch in my mind where I just kept going. And soon after that, or not soon after that, but a little while after that, I wanted to learn more about fitness and training and things like that. And I would have friends and family ask me, like, oh, what do you do for your workouts. And I wasn't really comfortable talking about it because I felt like I didn't really have a ton of knowledge. So I thought, oh, maybe if I got my personal training certification, then I could, like, help these friends and families and stuff. So I did that on the side while I still worked my regular full time job. And then I realized that I really loved personal training and I loved helping people. And that was really, like, the spark. Yeah. So in 2018, I quit my former career and left that behind, and I haven't looked back.

Oh, my gosh, I have so many questions. So first of all, though, do you miss the animals?

Yes, I do. There's certain aspects of my job that I do miss. And I still have friends that are still veterinary technicians that I went to school with and worked with. And there's a lot of things that I do miss about the career. There's a lot of things I don't miss about the career and that I'm glad that I made the choice. I did.

Okay, Amazing. Now, next, I actually am very interested in your Jiu Jitsu.

Okay.

So I want to talk a little bit about this because I just think it's really the reason why I'm drawn to it is that, you know, I'm a mom of two young girls, and so there is. There is a confidence aspect that from the people that I have just seen, like, I've seen Jiu Jitsu just come into my recticular activation system recently. People that I'm surrounded by are really active, and I just keep hearing over and over the confidence that it inspires, fills in people. So I guess my question's two part and twofold. Which is the first is that what was it like to like, be 11 in that kind of environment, first of all. And then second of all, did you continue to do that throughout while you were slipping out of shape? So, like, in your mind, were you feeling like, I'm still practicing Jiu Jitsu, why am I out of shape?

Yeah. So when I first started, what actually really sparked me to start was my younger brother was in Jiu Jitsu before me, and he kept wanting. He, you know, he'd come home and he would have to practice what he learned, and he would just like, kind of beat me up. And I was just like, I've had enough of this. Like, you're younger than me. I have enough of this. So I'm gonna join Jiu Jitsu so I can kick your ass. So that's essentially what kind of sparked it was my Younger brother. It was very much, it was very much the perfect sport for me in that, like was allowed to beat up. That was the only place that my mom would let my siblings or my. It was mostly my brothers that were in it. But it was the only place that my mom would like allow us to fight was jiu Jitsu class. So she'd be like, you guys wait till Friday and take it out on each other at Jiu Jitsu class. So we totally would all the time. So it was a great bunny experience. But being a young girl in that environment. So Jiu jitsu now, I love how popular it has gotten over the years. And there's so many amazing women that have like just taken this sport by storm. And with like, along with that in the UFC and an MMA and all that, I mean, it's really just exploded over the past probably 10 years. And I love it. But when I first started when I was 11 years old, so, you know, 20 some years ago, it was not very popular for girls. So there was like a couple of girls in my class, but they didn't really stick around for very long because it's not very cool being a teenage girl in Jiu jitsu, or at least it wasn't at that time. It was not a cool hobby to have. So I stuck around in it because I loved it. And it gave me a confidence boost for sure. And not only that just helped me with so many other aspects of my own life. Definitely confidence wise, like I mentioned, like growing being a teenage girl is hard enough. So having just like that confidence with Jiu jitsu and stuff like that really helped me. And it was just, it was my kind of a sport. Like I played basketball, but in all honesty, I sucked and I was not very good at it. And I liked being active. So this was my way of being active, kicking some ass and taking some names. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And then. I'm sorry I lost the other half of your question.

It's okay. I do this all the time and I have to stop. This is a good reminder to myself one at a time, one. Because every time I ask something, then somebody else says you, you say something that I want to go, I want to go on that. So I always forget to circle back. So I'll have to just prioritize in my mind. But the second part of the question I thought was interesting was that you're in this sport that you love and then you found, you know, as you had gone through the years, that, you know, in your mid-20s, you fell out of shape. And so I was curious if you were still practicing Jiu jitsu at that time and what that experience and transition was like.

Yeah, so there was definitely. We were like, my husband and I. That's kind of how we met was. Well, it's not kind of. It is how we met through Jiu Jitsu. So we ranked up kind of around the same time together. So we were teaching a class, and it helped keep me, like, kind of active in that. Like, we would do warmups and things like that, but in a teaching role, I wasn't as active as I wanted to be, and we weren't practicing on our own very much. And that is where I fell out of shape. So I was a little bit active, but I wasn't, like, overly active and definitely did not have very much cardio endurance. So that's where, like, when we went to that seminar and I had that, like, holy crap, I'm out of sh. That was kind of, like the lowest point where I was not. I was practice or I was teaching at that time, but I wasn't really practicing, and I wasn't exercising out of side of that at all. And that's where, like, I got very out of shape. I see. I see.

Was there any part of you that felt like an imposter? Did you feel like, oh, you know, as you're starting to, like, transition out? Because I. I'm. I'm saying this because I really. I remember that this came up for me when I first transitioned into being a fitness manager. I think people forget that. That it's also a job. And even as personal trainers, we get bogged down with so many other people's programs that it's really easy to put our own programs on the back burner, especially, you know, and especially for you, too. Like, I also think of, like, the women that you're working with. I'm. I'm guaranteeing that some of them are moms, and we are known for this. Putting everybody else first and then you on the back burner, because it's just easier to break your word to yourself than it is to another human being.

100%.

Yeah. And so I remember this used to come up for me all the time when I was a fitness manager. And there was almost like, a sense of shame. Not around for me. I'll speak for me personally. Personally, it wasn't around, like, I had to look the part. And I'm putting that in quotes, because what does that even mean? But more of feeling like I was out of integrity and. And more like, do as I say, not as I do. That part I didn't love for me.

Yeah, a hundred percent. Like, it's. And definitely I've experienced it when I was instructing jiu jitsu as well as I have experienced it, as well as a personal trainer where it is that, like, little bit of imposter syndrome where you do have to catch yourself on your own BS or it's like, oh, yeah, like, I'm letting my own fitness and stuff slack, but yet I'm preaching to my clients about, you need to prioritize yourself, you need to put yourself on your list and all these other things. But yet, like, I'm like, 20th on my list.

Yes, we all do it. And this is true, I think. And I don't know, this is my opinion, but it feels like the human condition, because I notice this a lot. Right. You hear these things that people are like, oh, those who can't do, teach. Well, that's a not true. Teaching is a skill and actually really hard to do. But we tend to be. We tend to just surround ourselves with the thing that we're the hardest at the thing, or that was the hardest for us. The things that were most focused on, which is both. You're going to have ups and downs of like, I'm really amazing at this, and then I'm slacking at this. So I'm just noticing that a lot.

Yes, very much so. I would agree with you 100% in.

Lots of different contexts. You know what I'm saying? Like, some I like, I always laugh because if my PE teacher could see what I do for my PE teacher and my English teacher, if they knew what I did for a living, they would be like, no, not her.

It's funny how that works out, isn't it?

Yes, absolutely. Okay, so now you are. Have left the career, now you're building your personal training business and you're working primarily with busy women, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So what are some of the things that you are doing? Like, are you specializing? Is it just general fitness? Are you dealing with, you know, mom stuff? What are, what are your. What's your focus in your everyday life?

Yeah. So the majority of my clients are about 50. 50. About half of them are moms and half of them aren't. But the common ground they all have is that they're busy AF and that they have careers and they have kids and, you know, all these things going on that they are putting themselves low on their priority list and that they've Been also struggling with an all or nothing mentality. So it's either I'm 100% on or I'm 100% off. Like how times do we hear that, I mean, are on or off, there's no in between. And that's very much who I deal with, is helping people overcome that and realize that you don't have to be all or nothing. You don't need to be perfect. What you actually need to be is consistent rather than trying to be perfect for three weeks in a row. And then you can, you don't do anything for the next six weeks.

Okay, great. So your. Is your program a six month, a six week clip?

I do initial three or four months. Sorry, initial four months with my clients. And then after that it rolls into a month to month, depending on the client. So we start with an initial four month program to get them going, get them feeling good, get into a routine and they're going to overcome and they're going to deal with that all or nothing mentality because throughout that four months they're going to have weeks where they're going to be dynamite and then they're going to get sick, their kids are sick or whatever it is. And then they feel like all is lost. And that's my job, is to pick them up from there and be like, no, no, no, no, no, we're still going with this. Because the more you just keep going and you stop quitting, you're going to actually get to where you want to go.

How long have you been building this, this career of yours?

I initially started personal training in 2016, late 2016, early 2017. And then I've been doing it full time since February 2018. So five years now I've been doing it full time. Amazing.

So now what are some of the things that you're doing to help you stay invigorated in the material and, and invigorated with each new person that comes your way. When it can feel so monotonous and repetitive.

100 it is a challenge. And just like in any other career, there are periods where I, it's not so much that I'm burnt out with my clients, it's burnt out of like content, making content, social media, all that kind of stuff where I will burn out a little bit with that. And then having to kind of relight that spark for me. I love working with my clients. They almost become like friends to me. So I love interacting with them. And one thing that does actually keep me going and keep me, keeps me excited with Working with them as we do like a once a month phone call. And that actually like sparks up my excitement for a person who's not super extroverted for some odd reason. I really enjoy that time with my clients where we get to just, you know, talk a little bit and troubleshoot where they're at. If they're struggling with something and celebrate their wins, that's the biggest thing for me is celebrating their wins with them. And that keeps me invigorated, I think, just as much as it does for them because I love to hear about their wins no matter how insignificant they think that they are. It's those little things that keep you going.

Love it. So what are some of the wins that you're. You've. You find yourself celebrating a lot?

Oh man. I just had one yesterday that she told me. One of my clients has been really struggling with her self image. She had a baby last year and is, you know, trying to get back into shape and stuff. And she was really struggling with like the progress photos that in her mind they weren't changing. But in reality I could actually see changes happening. But I know it was just, they weren't the changes that she wanted. So what we did is we completely switched gears and we're just focusing on just getting her strong af. Like, she's just like, I just want to get ridiculously strong. Like, screw these progress photos. I just want to get crazy strong. So she deadlifted last week for the first time. 135 pounds, which she's just never done before. And it was just like, this is amazing. And it just. And then she said to me, like, I love that feeling. Like, I loved it when I put the weight down. Like, that was amazing. I've never done that before. And to me that was just like such a huge win because she was so proud of herself in that she was feeling strong and it helped her feel confident and good about herself and that we kind of switched gears from something that was making her feel not so great about her progress to something now that is making her feel really great about her progress.

That's great. So that is something I noticed when I asked, you know, a little bit about what you do. Like, I noticed that the, it sounded like the focus that you're primarily focusing on for women specifically is getting strong. So I'm curious, how have you managed to shift their perspective and attention away from body image and away from from, you know, body composition change with, you know, and able to meet them where they're at?

It is difficult I'm not going to lie. And it's something that I've been getting better at. Like, I'm not perfect at it. And it's something that as a coach I'm focusing on getting better at because once clients get that light bulb switch in their head, it really changes their perspective. So it's something that I've been really focusing on over the past year is switching that focus to people. One thing that I do to help clients along because I find a lot of times with women, they hesitate on. I'm not sure if I can lift that weight. You know, it's not, they, they underestimate how strong they actually are and it's helping them discover how strong they actually are. And then that's when the light bulb starts switching, is when they notice that like, oh, wow, I can do a 20 pound shoulder press rest. I've never thought about that before. I've been using £8 my entire life, like that kind of thing. And it just sparks that like, wow, I am stronger than I think. And then you can kind of see the hamster wheel starts turning. They think like, oh, I wonder, I wonder if like in a month I could do £25 or like, I wonder like how long it would take me to get to this. So it is one thing I will do with my clients is I start giving them like weights to aim for in their thing. So I, you know, not necessarily you have to hit a 20 pound shoulder breast, but you're doing 15 pounds now. Let's make it our next goal to hit 20. And those little tiny goals along the way really helps them. And then they start to like that.

Feeling of winning of a. They just need to feel like they are accomplishing something.

Yes, yes, that's. And then it just helps their self. Their self efficacy just shoots through the roof after that.

Now are you training in person or online or combination?

So I, when I first started, I trained 100 in person in 2018, 2019. And then COVID ruined my life. I always joke, but COVID ruined my life.

Or just restarted it.

That's a better way of looking at it. So then Covid happened. The gyms where I live completely shut down. And I mean like, you know, you know, some of the trainers that are in my area and where I work with how like we struggled so much with the gyms opening, gym's closing. Gym opening, gym closing. And it was just so hard. So from there. So, yeah, so I started out working in a gym 100% like working in a gym. And then I did a little bit of online training with clients, but not a lot. My bread and butter was in person training until Covid happened. And then Covid happened and I had to kind of switch gears to like, okay, obviously like in person training. This is going to be really tough over the next little while while we're dealing with all of this. So I started to slowly pivot and shift gears and I always wanted to branch out into online training and do more of it because then I can work with people from everywhere and obviously like, able to do more clients per my time versus in person training. But I still love in person training. And so, yeah, with that, I started shifting a little bit less in person, a little bit more online to the point where it was about 50, 50. And then in 2021, I got pregnant with my second baby. And then from there I was like, okay, I'm planning ahead to when I have this itty bitty baby that I can't take with me to the gym anymore. So I then started taking on more online clients and I just had a couple of in person training clients. And then once I had her, I transitioned to completely online.

Now, are you enjoying, do you like it in the online space?

I love it. I absolutely love it because I can work with women from everywhere. So, like, clients, I have clients in the United States, I have a client in Ireland and she's amazing and I love her. And I have a client, you know, clients across Canada. So it's amazing. And my capacity to help them is greater now rather than when I was doing in person. And I still love in person training because you just, just can build that really intimate relationship with your clients that you can get with online training, but it takes more work. Whereas, like when you're in person seeing them for an hour face to face, you need to chat. Like, you can't just not talk. Otherwise it's the most awkward, longest hour ever. So you're chatting with them and you're getting to know them and everything. And yeah, so I still really love in person training and I feel like I will in the future do a little bit just to have that, you know, interaction with people and have that a little bit more. But. But I love online training. I really genuinely do.

So what are some of the things that you've done in your online world to help cultivate that connected feeling that you had in person? How have you translated that into your online community?

Yeah, so I do have a private Facebook group with all my clients in it where, you know, we post things and in there and stuff to just kind of build a bit of a community relationship. I mentioned before, like, I do my phone calls with my clients every month, and that really helps. Helps cultivate that, like, relationship where we are actually speaking to each other rather than just email or messaging each other. And I check in with them frequently. And when we get starting to work together, I am asking them all the questions, you know, like, what do you do for work? Who are your kids? You know, where'd you grow up? And all these things, because I want to get to know them, I want to know who they are. And then it gives me a better idea of not only how I can help them or some obstacles that may come up, but just it builds that relationship.

So good. That's so good. And how have. How have they been in connecting with each other?

Good, good. You know, Facebook groups are kind of a little bit tricky sometimes where there can sometimes be a lot of engagement and then sometimes not a ton. So just trying to keep that going is, like, definitely something that I'm working at to be better about, to help keep that relationship going. But yeah, it's. It's really good. And it's actually kind of fun where, like, you know, you get referrals and things like that. So I'll have, like, friends that are both training with me, and then it helps them motivate each other as well, which is really great.

I love that. I love it. So now, in terms of your actual, like, training, education, training style, what are some of the, you know, what would you say. Where would you say has been your favorite way of learning the style of training? You bring train.

Oh.

To your clients?

That is a really good question. I've never really thought a ton about that before, so kind of like the way how I learned my style of training just.

Yeah. Like, what's, like, what influenced you? Like, some people love kettlebells, some people love powerlifting, Some people love Olympic lifting. Some people are like, nah, I just like the straight up basics. Some people are like, no beach body for light. No body now. Okay. You know, I got you just curious, like, what. How did you cultivate your method and style of training?

Yeah, for sure. Okay. So when I very first started working out, I was very, like, not even. It was before I started working out, when I was still, like, in my out of shape kind of area. I was so scared of weight training. I was so scared of weight training that, like, it was going to make me bulky. I'm already such a tomboy. I don't want to look Like a man. Like, these were the things that I would say all the time. So it blows. It kind of like blows my mind now. That that used to be my mentality. But what it was is what got me started. I started looking up and following, like, bodybuilders online. Now, I never became a bodybuilder. It was never my jam. But I was introduced to weight training through that. And that was when I was like, oh, look at these beautiful, amazing fit women. They all weight train. There's gotta be something to this. So that was what kind of sparked it. And then from there, just the feeling of getting stronger is that it gave me a very similar feeling to Jiu jitsu and the confidence and like, I wonder if I can lift this weight or like that kind of thing. Thing. And it really, really gave me that confidence boost. I saw my body changing and I felt myself getting stronger, moving better, feeling better. When I would go to Jiu jitsu, I could feel the difference in how I moved and my strength and all that. So that's what really introduced me to that style of training. And that's now kind of like the style of training that I use for my clients, as well as just taking a very generalized, not a one size fits all approach.

Coach.

Right. So I do have some clients who are marathon runners, so for them, they're running and things like that are very important. But I also have clients who are like me, and we don't run, but I do. But I have also realized over the years how important cardiovascular activity actually is, because I did a prayer period there. Become a part of that cardio stupid, and I don't do cardio crowd. And then I learned that you actually do need cardio to be able to, like, you know, have a little bit of endurance and energy and stuff in lights. So trying to take a much more balanced approach to it. Yeah. So that's kind of where it came from. And then I got really inspired following Jordan Syat. He's a huge influence for me, not only just for working out, but also as a trainer and just a human being in general. So following him really helped change my approach from very much all or nothing mentality to just be consistent, get strong, stay healthy, and look after yourself. So those have been kind of my influences along the way that changed and formed to where I am now.

Jordan Science is so interesting because he actually, I learned something really, you know, really great. Kind of blew my mind. Like, you know, you hear all these people that are like, at the scale, and he's like, no, no, you need to scale every day.

Right, Right. Yeah.

So there were some things that I. I learned from Jordan that I think is a different approach than what most people teach.

Yeah. Yeah. One thing I appreciate about him and something that I've taken into the way that I approach fitness is that there's nuance. There's so much more nuance. It's not just black or white. Things aren't just bad and good, that there is middle ground and nuances, and that some things that work for some crowds aren't going to work for others, and vice versa. So that's one thing that I really appreciate about him and that he takes a very scientific approach to things that, you know, he's looking into the science. What does the science actually say? What is actually, like, the nuances here? And that I've really appreciated that approach and try to, you know, utilize that as well.

Yeah. So good. It's so good. So, you know, what would you say has been some of the hardest struggles that you've had to deal with in terms of your clients and how have you navigated those, you know, disappointments?

Yeah, I mean, it's. I think it's something that not a lot of trainers talk about. We don't want to talk about the clients, that maybe things didn't work out, and we don't want to talk about the struggles that we've had. But I will talk about it. So the one thing that I've really struggled with is. Is lack of communication. So clients who fall off the deep end, and I don't. Like, they're not answering me. They aren't getting back to me. That's a really big struggle. And, you know, talking with other coaches, hearing that I'm not the only one, is helpful, because that imposter syndrome comes up, and I'm like, maybe I do suck. Maybe I am doing something wrong, you know, and it's not saying that it's 100% the client's fault. Like, you know, definitely it's a learning experience for me, and. And maybe what can I do better next time to avoid this? Or maybe what expectations do I need to make more clear to my clients? But, yeah, that's my. That I find is a big struggle. And it's. It's hard when, like, I feel like I care so much and I'm not getting any energy or anything back. That's really hard. And I've had clients where, like, they were doing really well, and we had this great relationship, and I feel like things were going well, and then all of a sudden, they kind of start drifting and they kind of start drifting and then ghost. And I'm just like, what? What? And of course, I just think, what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? What? What? What did I. You know, And I wish that I could, like, talk to you so I could hear, like, where are you at? What's going on? So that I can do better for you. And that is really hard for me as a trainer. And I'm sure a lot of trainers deal with that, especially, like, I've talked to others, and they've been through similar experiences where it is that, like, we feel like a little bit of imposter syndrome and we blame ourselves.

Yeah. This is a great conversation. Right. And thank you. I realized, as I said, I'm like, this is. You know, I am putting her on the spot. Listen, I'll share, too, okay? So you don't have to be. You don't have to be alone. I'll share my experience, too.

Don't leave me hanging.

And I think ultimately it comes down to the. To effective communication. Effective communication at the end of the day, at all times. It's always usually about that.

Right.

It's about, did I communicate the expectations clearly and am I communicating my own personal boundaries, essentially. Right. So I think what happens when people ghost in this regard. Right. Is that they don't want to let themselves down. So they're not going to admit that.

Right.

Because sometimes they're in overwhelm. And I think people misconstrue overwhelm and they forget that overwhelm is. Is either a sense of there's too much to do and I'm never going to be able to do it. There's too much to do and not enough hours on the time, or there's too much which to do, and I don't know how to start. That's usually how overwhelm shows up, at least in my experience. And so people don't want to face that music. So they will. They will just. It's easier to not have the conversation.

Than it is to have it 100%.

And then they don't want to let you down.

Yes. Yes. And that's a common thing that I hear, too, when I. You know, I have been able to actually, like, restart that conversation with those clients that initially goes to me. And they'll say that. They'll say, well, I was disappointed in myself and I felt embarrassed, and I felt like I was disappointed you. And I'm like, no, not at all. And so now I've gotten better at setting the expectation when I first start with a client that, like, I don't care if you're having a bad week. Well, I do care. Like, I do care that you're having, like, if you're having a bad week, if you're struggling, if the workouts are too much, if they're not enough, if you're not seeing the results that you were hoping to see, tell me, Tell me. I'm open to communication. Communicate with me. I'm open to, like, you know, let's hear some feedback and how can we change things? Or, like, if you're struggling at work, if you got crazy things going on, let me know so I can help you. And we can change things. We can change the approach. We can change what you're doing. Like, whatever we got to do to make this successful for you, I'm game for it. Just communicate. And I've been better at setting that expectation with clients, and it's been so much better. And I will have clients text me saying, like, this week has been terrible. I know, you know, I haven't, you know, done the things, and I've just had KFC all week or whatever. I'm like, thank you for telling me. Let's navigate through the rest of the week and, you know, help us start up a plan to get you back to where you want to be so good.

And, you know, for me, too, I just also, like, it also comes down to just communicating expectations. Right. Is that people think people have. And. And the reason why I'm saying that, too, is that, you know, because expectations, a disappointment comes from. From. In my opinion, it comes from not meeting an expectation and then making a meaning out of it.

A hundred percent, I agree.

And that's why people feel disappointed. And it's not that that doesn't have a place to live, but we need to feel it and then process it and then move through it, because then what's the alternative? What else are you going to do?

Yeah, a hundred percent.

And I just think it comes down to having the conversation, which I'm. I'm realizing now as a parent, which I'm sure you've also. You know, I'm trying to teach my little humans how to be big humans in the world when the truth of the matter is that everyone needs to go back to school and relearn.

Yeah.

Humans in the world.

Oh, my goodness, yes. Yes. One thing I always hear is, like, you know, you're a parent trying to teach your kids how to manage their emotions, emotions but you yourself need to manage your emotions. And that I find as a parent, just so hard.

Well, I, it's just so funny. I mean this goes back to what we were saying earlier in terms of like what you are required of you is usually just in your, you know, sometimes the hardest part of you. But it's funny because like I said to my husband, you know, as we're starting to navigate parenting, right. You know, he'll get frustrated over something and I'm like, you are expecting an 8 year old to behave better than some 40 year olds. I know.

So yes, a hundred percent yes. It's so true. Like we put these expectations on our kids, like they're not allowed to be in a bad mood, they're not allowed to have a bad day and all these things. But yet I'm in a bad mood and I have bad days and I get pissy about things like, you know, it's just those, yeah, you hold your kids to a higher standard than you hold yourself. Like that doesn't make any sense.

And so then no wonder our clients come in and they're, you know, holding themselves to the standard. That's just impossible to me. Like, Right, yeah, I can look at this with compassion and navigate the nuances of like, okay, this is what we are, you know, what we're doing, you know.

Yes, yes, for sure.

So, you know, it's interesting. The other thing too, that I'm curious and so that I'll say is my biggest struggle is just helping navigate people expectations and their disappointments. Because the truth of the matter for me, it's a little bit different. You know, I mean, it's not different though, because at the end of the day, we're going to get to the root cause and we're going to figure out the problem. It's going to get figured out. You just have to trust the process. Most people won't.

Agreed, agreed. Yes, yes. Or they get impatient. That's the biggest thing. It's like, oh man, you got to be patient. And people, they do, they get too impatient. And I understand why. In our world of, you know, Amazon prime and Netflix, I like, we don't even have bloody commercials. Like my daughter has never grown up with a commercial. So when an ad shows up on YouTube, she's like, mom, what is this? I'm like, you'd have never survived the 90s.

Oh my gosh.

So but with that it's ingrained in us, like instant results, instant satisfaction, all that kind of stuff. But when it comes to changing your lifestyle, and, you know, getting stronger, losing weight, whatever your goal might be, it's a process, and it takes time and it takes a lot of patience that a lot of us need to. To relearn.

You know, it's so. It is interesting because I, you know, I'm dealing with this on the business side. The thing that I like to remind my clients, at least, is that, you know, you are getting results. You're getting instant results. Every choice and decision you make has a result. It's totally not. It's just not the compounding effect of the result.

Yeah, but it will come. Yeah, that's a really great way of looking at it. I really like that.

You know, like, it's just it, the result. You're getting a result every moment. It's just you can't turn your computer into an atm. Like, what can I do again? You know, like, believe me, I'd be the first person to figure that out if that was possible.

It's very true. And it does. I do, like, on the business side of things, find myself thinking the same thing sometimes where I'm getting impatient and, oh, I just want to be, you know, here, whatever. And then I think to myself, like, this. This is exactly how my clients feel, is that, like, I just want to be here already. And, like, it's doesn't work that way. So it is also reminding myself of that, you know, in business as well.

True. I mean, luckily, you know, we do. You know, it takes 10 years to look like an overnight success. And your clients feel the same way. Right. It's just the compounding effect of making the decision and showing up for yourself the same way every day.

Every day, exactly.

You know, yeah, that's hard.

It is hard for people. It's so hard, you know, so, like.

You know, I can come. I can come for. I can come for compassionate for that as well. So now, you know, where would you say you, you know, what are you working on now? What are you. How are you continuing to stay on the cutting edge of education and the science of trade?

Learning? Yeah. So for me, it's always learning. Like, I. I watched a video that Lane Norton posted yesterday, and I'm like, the more I know, the more I feel like. I don't know. Like, you know, and I feel like for me, it's staying in that always learning mentality is the most important thing. So I do like hearing about new research, hearing about new things that are coming out and all that kind of thing. But also a lot of times in that research, it is affirming to me, staying to sticking to the basics, keep it simple, keep it basic, that it doesn't need to be so complicated. So I feel like I'm always in a state of I'm trying to always just be a student and be learning because that's really how I'll be able to grow and keep up with how things are going and not be so dogmatic about things all the time. So that to me is the biggest thing is I just like being a forever student. And maybe it comes from a bit of a martial arts background, because I always also feel like when I was in jiu jitsu, even when I was a high ranking and even when I've been in it for a long time, there's always things to learn and there's always things changing and all that. So that forever student mentality, like in jiu jitsu, they'll always say like, you're forever a white belt in that you're forever learning. That's kind of for me, what keeps me going is that just there's always something new to learn.

Yeah, so true. So just switching gears here a little bit. I'm curious, you know, what are some of the biggest misconceptions that your clients, when you're first starting to work with them, what are some of the biggest misconceptions or questions that they come in with before saying yes to themselves and working with you?

One of the biggest misconceptions is that they feel like they have to be perfect. And they feel like I'm perfect. And as in terms of my own fitness and my own nutrition and just even things that I struggle with, they come into the this with this misconception of they have to hold themselves to the same standard as me, but even I'm not perfect. And they always think that like they have to be 100%, 100% honor, it's not even worth trying. And it's such a piss poor mentality because they literally will say it to themselves over and over and over again and it stops them from trying. So that's one of the biggest misconceptions that I feel like a lot of people have when it comes to fitness and health is that they have to be perfect. And you just, if you can't do it 100%, you might as well not even try. And that's just not how it goes at all. It's the consistency that really, really matters. So that's a big thing that I have to teach with my clients is like, no, it's just being consistent like you talked about before that showing up day after day, year after year, collecting those little small wins and you'll be that, quote, overnight success in five to 10 years. Like, you know that it takes time. That's one of the biggest misconceptions I would say that my clients kind of struggle with when they first come in. And that's why, like, I work with a lot of people who have that all or nothing mentality to help them overcome that.

Yeah, okay, amazing. I also, you know, I'm also curious, just out of interest, like, do you. Wait, I have two things. You were like, I don't want to get bulky. And then you started following the body to builders.

I know, I know.

Did you? Like, that is so incongruent. Because it was so funny is because, like, I would have women come into my gym and tell me, like, I don't want to get bulky. And then they would see these supplements and then bodybuilders holding the supplements and they'd be like, like that.

I don't want to be like that. Right, right. So what it was is I was trying to figure out, like, because I, I knew that I needed to change, like my fitness lover or whatever. So I was like, what do I do? So I joined like a few just like fitness groups. And then from there people were posting like Nicole Wilkins and Danalyn Bailey, which, like, I didn't want to be as big as Danalyn Bailey, but like there was a few of those people that were like posted within the group and I would just kind of like click on their page just out of like curiosity and just go down the wormhole that is the Internet. And then I would start following them and seeing them in their on stage and then seeing them in their off season. They are different. They're completely different. And I think a lot of people need to know that about the bodybuilding industry. The person that's on stage is not the person that walks around the grocery store everyday life. They are different. Like, they are different. But yeah, so I would see that. But I would just see that they were like in such beautiful shape and like seeing them how they were like so strong. And I also kind of followed some power lifters out of these groups as well. And I was just like, wow, like, this is kind of cool. And I was like. And then, I don't know, it just kind of got me interested and I was like looking up like, what is weight training? Like, what is this really about? And then I would see kind of like the myths about it and stuff. And Go, oh, I think I had a wrong perception of this the entire time. And then I was curious about it and I kind of started it and dabbled in it and then I was like, oh, okay, this is awesome. And then just dove headed headfirst.

So, so good. So charm. Amazing. Okay, so it's, it's. I'm also curious, does this still come up for your clients? Clients, even now?

Yes, it does. It does. I will hear clients say to me, I don't want to bulk up, I want to tone. And they'll say, like, I even had a client recently say, I don't want to bulk up, I want to tone like you. And I was just like, interesting that you said that. And you know, it is about educating that toning isn't really a thing. It's a great marketing term. So unfortunately, like, I find sometimes as personal trainers, we have to use that word as much as we all go when they, when we hear it, because that's what people think of and that's what people. That's that word that people think of. So I hate using it. But at the same time, like, it gets people the image that they're thinking about and then the education part has to come in where it's teaching them that like, actually toning just means that you're gaining muscle mass and you're recomp. You're going through a recomp with your body.

It's so interesting. And I, as a marketer and as someone who teaches messaging, this is something that I value battle with all the time in terms of morality, because I think to myself, it's like there's a re. It's like what comes first, the chicken or the egg, Right? You absolutely have to meet people where they're at and if you use language that they're not thinking about, you're gonna lose them. And at the same time, we have to ask ourselves, well, how did they find that word?

Where did they learn that?

Right? So it's like you. It's the same. This new. It is a very nuanced conversation around, you know, changing and shifting perspective and meeting people where they're at. And it's very challenging for us to all navigate, especially because we're human beings having a human being for, you know, experience. And so we also are going to have our bias in here and in this world. So it's a very interesting nuanced conversation in my opinion.

Opinion. It really is. It really 100% is because it's true. It's kind of like if you're A doctor, you're not going to speak in medical terms to a patient who doesn't know anything about it. But at the same time, there is that technical jargon to it that makes it make sense. So it is like I even came across kind of a similar thing when I was a veterinary technician is having to speak layman's terms to people, but also trying to explain the medical part of it so that they understood what was actually going on. Like, it is hard. It's hard to ride that line. And also there's. When it comes to personal training, there is that kind of, like, moral battle within your body of like or within your mind that you want to tell them what they want to hear so that you can explain it further to them so that they understand what it actually is. But I hate using those words too, because it just makes me feel like, ugh, every time.

Totally, totally, totally, totally. Okay, cool. So I definitely want to be mindful of your time.

So.

So thank you so much for hanging out with us today. I really appreciate it and pouring into me and into the community. So I'd love for you to share if for any of you who are listening and want to connect with you, go deeper with you, work with you, collaborate with you. Where are some of the best places that I can send?

Absolutely. So Instagram is probably the best place. That's the place kind of where I hang out. I am on TikTok, I TikTok and I am on Facebook. But Instagram's kind of my bread and butter. So my Instagram is Jackie Fitlike a girl. Or you can just probably put in the search bar Jackie Lindahl and my name will pop up. Yeah, that's generally the best place to follow. Send me a message. I love chatting with people on Instagram and messaging back and forth and stuff. So definitely just shoot me a message. I am all for it.

Hey, I love it. Thank you so much, Jackie. I really appreciate it. And we'll be sure to link all of that up in the show notes.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Beverly.

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