The High Ticket Evergreen System with Rose Radford

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 131. Today I'm sitting down with Rose Radford and we're talking all about the high ticket Evergreen system. Are you ready? Let's get started. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase clients client performance and movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host Beverly Simpson and I am super pumped to bring to you today's episode. So I had Rose Radford heard come and speak to my PTA profit accelerators and it was mind blowing. We talked about so many important, amazing concepts that are really going to help their business get to the next level. Why? Because they're able to leverage their time and the assets that they've already created. And so because of that I figured, Rose, we got to get you on the podcast because chances are if my accelerators have this question, so, so do you. So I brought her to the podcast and we talked all about the importance of building out and how we can build out this high ticket evergreen system inside of your business so that you can start generating predictable income monthly instead of living on the launch roller coaster. So Rose Radford is a business strategist and coach. After leaving her strategic consultant role at McKinsey & Co. At age 2025 with no plan, Rose has now created a multiple six figure online business helping women unlock their income potential online. Rose has made it her life's mission to financially empower women through entrepreneurship and is committed to helping a hundred thousand women unlock their income potential through online entrepreneurship by the year 2025. Since building a multiple six figure business herself, Rose discovered only 12% of female LED businesses ever reach this level of financial success. In the income gap between female and male led business is bigger than the gender corporate salary gap. So through her private mentorship programs and speaking, Rose helps high achieving women turn their expertise into successful online businesses. Her client results including doubling and tripling businesses revenue in 6 months or less and reaching 50k months as well as helping new entrepreneurs launch their business and sign their first few clients. So before taking the leap to start her own company at age 25, she worked at Kenya supporting New entrepreneurs and creating business businesses with minimal resources, then went on to serve CEOs and leaders within global companies and government to help them solve their most difficult problems as a strategy consultant at McKinsey & Company. So when Rose isn't helping women unlock their earning potential, she's bungee jumping, diving with sharks and jumping on a plane or seeking out the next adrenaline fueled thrill. So without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. Rose, welcome to the show. I am super pumped to have you here.

How are you?

How are you doing?

I am so well and I am so grateful to be here with you talking about what we're going to be talking about today, which I'm really excited about.

I know your zone of genius is about to blow my people's minds. I just had Rose host a presentation for my PT profit accelerators, and it was hands down one of the best presentations that we did. And I had tons of questions. You guys are really in for a treat. So for those of you who have never heard of you before, I'd love for you to share a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

Absolutely. Yeah. So my name is Rose Radford. I am a business strategist and coach and my zone of genius right now. So we will have many zones of geniuses, each of us. But the thing that I'm most well known for, I guess right now is helping coaches to craft a high ticket group coaching program. So $3,000 and upwards usually, and actually sell it on Evergreen rather than selling it on launches every couple of months. So instead of that launch roller coaster that a lot of coaches end up riding, actually, instead I teach coaches how to sign 1, 2, 3, sometimes more clients every single week into a flagship group coaching program.

I love that. So now you use the word evergreen. So can you just unpack what you mean specifically when you're talking about Evergreen versus launches? Because some of my people might be like, wait, what are you talking about?

It's a bit of a buzzword. Right. And also it means different things to different people sometimes. Like if you type in evergreen on your iPhone, it'll come up with a tree and everybody. Rose, what are you talking about trees for?

Is this a Christmas tree? I don't sell it. Christmas trees.

You work in the online space, Rose. You're not a garden center. So Evergreen.

Right.

In the marketing world, Evergreen basically is the opposite to launching. So launching your opening and closing your cart for your group coaching program or your course, you might do a masterclass launch or challenge launch or a social media launch, any of that kind of stuff. Whereas Evergreen, basically you never really launch and instead you have open enrollment for that group coaching program. You can sell it all year round. That means then your lead generation and your sales systems operating all year round as well. Now, I really like going Evergreen and being Evergreen because it allows you to really refine and optimize and get better and better every single day if you want, every single week with your marketing system. Whereas launching, you only really get optimized every time you launch, which might only be a couple of times a year. So that's really like the difference. And often people think Evergreen, they think, oh, that's selling courses. But the thing that's different about what I teach is I teach how to sell High Ticket on Evergreen. So that's like 3k, 5k, 20k rather than just a $500 course. It's a little bit different. And what's required for High Ticket on Evergreen is a bit different. Obviously selling something that's just $200.

Yeah. So I'd love for you to go into that a little bit more and I'd love for you to also. Could you share some of the common myths that people hear like, or that people feel when they think High Ticket and Evergreen? Because I know for me, my first instinct is, oh, no one's gonna. No one's gon zero to 60 or zero to buy in 60 minutes or less. So I'd love for you to just share some of the common myths like that that you often hear. No doubt.

Yeah, absolutely. So there is actually only 3% or less of your audience at any one time looking to purchase from potentially you or other people. So we're not expecting everybody to watch a prerequisite webinar or something and sign up straight away. That would be too much of an expectation from a cold audience. Um, however, what we are expecting them is to, within an hour or less to understand who you are, whether you are relevant to them or not, whether you can help them solve a pain that they have. And then that's really a really good filter because when people go through that, let's say Evergreen webinar, for instance, they watch it and they're like, ah, this person's relevant for me. Or hell no, Rose is so irrelevant to me. I'm going to unsubscribe from email list.

Bye bye.

Which is totally cool as well, right? It's what you want. So that's really the entry point at understanding who you are and how you Help people and how you can help help them. So in terms of let's take a step back for a moment because I think what might be interesting for me to share first is actually how I ended up realizing that high tech Evergreen was the best thing for me at least, and for many of my clients too, who are mums, for instance, or have other things on their plate and running their business 24. Seven is not what they're able to do. So a couple of years ago I was launching, I was launching quite a lot of the time and I don't hate launches. Launches are kind of fun actually. And I was launching a group coaching program which obviously then. And I was closing and opening cart. Every time we launched I did a challenge launch. It was really successful. I made 30k. The first time I did it, I thought, great, I've cracked the code. All I need to do is ramp up ad spend next time, bring more people in and let's double the results. Woohoo. And so I did. I doubled ad spend three months later running this. Literally the same launch, same scripts, everything. And we ended up with 11k in sales rather than 30 rather than. I was aiming for 60, obviously. And that's when I realized just how unpredictable launching can be. You can have all your numbers straight and no that your launch strategy works, but then the results can be totally lackluster and you might not always know why. By the time you know why, it's too fricking late. So that's what I learned.

And not to mention that pressure that you're literally putting on yourself within a seven to 14 days. And if you've been in this space for any amount of time, you're probably praying or, or doing your, you know, keeping your mind right, clearing your energy right, doing all the things that we're told to do to help keep our state even.

Yes, absolutely. The cart open anxiety is real and it's such a head f about me swearing. It really is. It's not fun at all. So yes, that was my experience with launching and as I said, launched quite a few times, like six or seven times in the end. And then I had people coming towards me when cart was closed for this group coaching program saying, can I sign up? Like, what's the best thing for me to work with you through? And I'm like, it's this group coaching program, but it isn't opening again until March. Can you sit still and wait till then? Like, well, of course you're going to lose the client then. Unless they're very, very Patient. Most people want their problem solved when they want them solved. So then I was actually losing revenue at that point and not able to help the clients that I wanted to help. So I was like, this is a bit screwed up. What other companies in the world, like Fortune 500 companies, actually close their car? Basically nobody. So why are we doing it in the online space? What are we doing this for? So that's when I really started questioning it. And then I had another group coaching program that was more of a high ticket version and I actually had evergreened that straight away. In other words, got it started. I had three people sign up, then a fourth the next week. It's like, great, four people, bit of a crowd, let's get going. And then I had one new client sign up into every single week for nine weeks in a row. And you'd think at that point I'd just keep going and doing that, right? But no, I thought, let's go for the launch again. Let's go make 30, 60K. Like it's almost like that was it when like people will start jumping. All the sheep start jumping off the cliff at the same time. Oh, that looks fun. Let's start, let's start launching again. And then, yeah, I kind of learned the lesson all over again that launching isn't necessarily the best thing to do. I should have just continued signing 5k clients every week. And at that point it was 5k. So long story short, I learned that actually Evergreen allows you to scale your business more gently. Just signing one new client a week is a game changer for most people at this stage. Whether that client is 3K, 5K or more. Then you're like, well, I can do one a week. A lot of my clients in my Freedom accelerator right now doing one a week, and they're like, oh my gosh, I just looked at my numbers. We did one a week the whole of last month. Great, okay, now let's do two week. How about three? There was one week a few months ago I had eight clients line up in a week. I was like, okay, that's enough for me. We're good there for a moment. So it's a really powerful way of just gently scaling a very, very sustainably scaling and then hitting really consistent 20, 30, 50k months without needing any of the launch stress at all.

So, so good. So what you know is in your experience, what typically is your customer journey? Meaning someone who, how long does it typically take someone who's never heard of you before to go through your process and become a Client.

Yeah, we've had people take 24 hours and we've had other people take probably not quite 24 months, but months, put it that way, probably like six or eight months. And actually there is one lady that took 24 months, she was a slow burn. So. And that's the thing, I'm willing to be patient, really willing to be patient. And I think for a lot of people in online space we've got so used to having short term wins. Launch something, make 20k, launch something, make 100k. And actually playing the long game is very rare and very, very powerful. So I know the people that have entered my funnel today will become clients in the weeks and months to come and I'm so willing to be patient for them because I'd rather they come and invest the amount of money they can invest with me when they know they're ready and they're ready to jump in and get a fantastic result. And that's really also the difference here between launching and evergreen. What a lot of people say to me is I love the idea of being evergreen or I always love the idea of people signing up every week. But don't people need deadlines to get them to go over the line? And I know we've spoken about this quite a lot already also with your clients as well, Beverly. And my ethos on this is that actually using a deadline to get people to invest is using fear, scarcity and often inauthentic sales tactics and quite shallow sales tactics just to say, right, Cart's closing, you need to sign up right now and instead being able to deepen your sales mastery instead and be able to speak to people's inner sense of urgency, but inner desire. And that knowing this of like right now is the right time for me to invest actually means you end up creating more empowered clients, more high ticket clients. Because let's be honest, high ticket clients don't need a ridiculous deadline to go and invest 20k. They know when they're ready to invest their 20k. So it's a much more empowered way of selling I find more authentic than saying like closing and we're shutting the doors. So that's the other big thing. And I have been evergreen now for well over a year, probably two years really for include my group coaching program in there too. And I haven't needed a deadline at all to get people to sign up. And we continue to scale 200k and even 200k months as well. That's been so exciting to see without launching. It's been really Fun. But anyway, going back to your actual question here about what does that customer journey look like when people enter my world, they go through an evergreen webinar funnel. You've probably seen one before if you've been in the online space. And then there is a, there's multiple layers of an evergreen ecosystem on the back end that will include things like retargeting ads that are really, really cheap, obviously an email sequence. We've all seen those. Adding strategy, maybe a Facebook group, if you love Facebook groups. Really powerful content that we're pumping out at certain times in people' journeys when they are considering working with me, that then shifts belief and gets them to realize that the evergreen high ticket approach is what they want to do or not to do, of course, as well. So it's very, very simple when you break it down. It's just that many people don't realize the pieces all need to be put together really well for it to actually work. And the messaging that goes through the whole ecosystem needs to be super, super strong.

Oh, I love that you talk about this. And I, and it also will bring me back to a little bit of the speed and my speed question, you know, it's interesting I, and I've shared this with you too, is that I come from the gym world and we are just so, we, it is indoctrinated not even just from the online space, but even from the gym space where it's, you know, we're, we have to hit a certain target by the end of the month. And so people are constantly deadline, deadline, deadline, deadline. And it's one of the hardest things that I had to really wrap my brain around is that, you know, appealing to that sense of inner self urgency which came from you. So I'm curious, right? You know, when you're dealing with, with no deadline and you are wanting to appeal to the sense of urgency and we've all heard before, speed is the fastest way to wealth. It's going to win over free. Right. So my question is, you know, since we're in this world of fast, we're in this world of, of, you know, 15 seconds, seven second videos and I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys, come on, let's just get it together here. What are some of the ways that you have captured people's attention and actually got them to attend and watch some of your content? That is 5 minutes, 60 minutes, 90 minutes. I'm curious about that.

Yeah, it's all about the promise of that content. Is it going to be worth their time? Or not. And they need to believe it's going to be worth their time. And I would say for high ticket clients, they don't want to have to wait for 7 o' clock on a Thursday night in two weeks time to come watch your webinar masterclass, whatever it is. Like they want to watch it now and it might be 11 o' clock at night that they're watching it because they've had such a busy day, who knows? So making sure things are actually on demand. And let's be honest, we're used to Netflix at this point. Everything's on demand. So having that on demand is really powerful. Now, even if they don't watch the entirety of that training, or even if they don't watch it at all, they've still gone and clicked on that landing page, signed up to the training and said, I'm interested in this. This has got, this has piqued my interest. Which is really cool because then you know as the marketer that you want to probably follow up with that person and have a conversation with them and say, hey, what was it about this that interested you? What was your takeaway? What's relevant for you right now? What's going on for you? And you just get yourself into a conversation with them. And we all know that sales is a contact sports that doesn't include a contact with yourself. You've got to go talk to people and have conversations often that's something that's often like lost, I feel, in the online space where we're so used to putting funnels up and sales pages and just expect people to go and buy from us magically. And I'm a big advocate of having intimacy back into our sales process and marketing online. So I think people are craving that. And also when they're investing high ticket with you, they're probably going to want a conversation. So being able to get into that conversation, whether that's on Instagram, DMs, Facebook Messenger, LinkedIn, DMS or whatever it might be, is really powerful. And then jump on a, a call with them, jump on a consult call, get them signed up, it's the right thing for them. And that's why actually we've been able to grow over half a million in just the first was about five or six months of fully pushing out this evergreen funnel again without a sales page. Did half a million in revenue without a sales page. And that was super exciting because it allowed us to move faster. Because I don't know about you, but sales pages take me weeks and often I just end up having to hire somebody to write them for me because they take forever. And often when you got a new offer, you are having to guess what goes on the sales page. You don't really know your client well enough just yet to be able to know exactly what to put on the sales page. So we ditched that step and just went straight to sales calls or conversations. And that allowed us then to make sales faster. Really, really get to know our ideal client inside out and then write a much better sales page as a result of that later. I barely use my sales page now anyway for my freedom accelerator. I just have conversations with people to see if it's the right fit or not. And then when it comes to that in a sense of urgency on that call, I'm always looking for like, why is this a now thing for them? Why is it so important that they say yes to this and step up now? What happens if they don't? What's the cost of that? And actually, sometimes it's not a now thing and that's okay. I've had people that have said, actually, I'm not 100% sure that a group coaching program on Evergreen is what I want. Rose, can I go back and think about that bit first? I'm like, yes, I do not want you in here unless you know that's what you want. So sometimes it's actually better for them to go away, think about it, figure it that bit out and then come back to you. And when people are saying things like, I want to do it, but can I do it in three months time, can I do it in June, in April, whatever it might be, I'm like, yeah, of course you can put your deposit down now. Let's save your spot and I'll see you in June. And at the end of the summer last year was September, October time I had people literally putting deposits down to start in January, February, March and June the next year. So people are willing to say, yes, I want to hold my spot, send $1500 or whatever it is to hold their spot in that way too. So even if the urgency piece isn't there for them right now, but they know they want to do it, you can still say, cool, let's have you signed up and then you're ready to go when you're ready.

I love that. So I also am curious. You said, you know, put the deposit down to save your spot. So does that mean that you only onboard a certain number of people per month?

I've come backwards and forwards about this So I have some clients that are just scaling and scaling and then I also had a program that was built to just scale and scale and hold as many people as we wanted. That was more of a low ticket program. We're no longer running that right now. We literally stopped running it a few weeks ago. We're just focusing on my high ticket for now. Bringing a new offer out today in fact, which is very exciting. But the high ticket one for me, based on how I really like to run it and how I like to have a personal relationship with everybody, at least give me opportunity to do that. And the fact that it's quite high touch, but in a way that's got boundaries. So I haven't got a voxer going up every 10 seconds because it is a group coaching program. With that in mind, I am going to be limiting the number of people in there. And we only have a certain number of spots left right now. And I know we will hit that limit by about March or April time if we just keep doing what we're doing. And that's great. But that will be a million dollar program for me at that point. So I'm cool with that. I'm happy to support that. Many women make a million dollars out one program in a year. I'm happy. Let's go do something else on top of that now as well. So yes and no. Some people will scale the crap out of it to hundreds of people and others might prefer to keep it a little bit smaller. But in terms of that program design, it's to be aware of that too when you are designing that program because many people don't think about the scalability part of it when they first go out there with a group coaching program. I think I just want 10 people in here and I'll be really happy. And then when they get to 30 people, like, holy crap, this is a lot of work. Because they never designed it for scale in the first place.

Love that. So I'm, you know, when you are talking about also the, the limited spots, right. One of the things that I'm noticing is that it's not false, right? It's not one of those false urgencies or false sense of scarcity, which is what is really prevalent in our space and in the online space right now is this sense of like, well, what's gonna happen if I don't, you know, what do you mean? Are you gonna go, can I just in theory go through your funnel again and get the 50% offer? Yes, you can. But when you're really Making these limited spots and having it for a reason, then it's not. You don't have that sense of falseness. Yeah, right, yeah.

Which is empowering.

Which is empowering. And people sense that. And I think that a lot of people forget that is that people know when something feels false.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'd much prefer to have a wait list of incredible people ready to jump in than to say, right, we've only got 10 spots left or something. And like that kind of fake scarcity thing. So yes, I feel like it's a lot more aligned and heartfelt to say, look, there's genuinely just a few spots left because I really care about your client experience inside here. When we hit the cap, we hit the cap and then after that we're on the wait list and we get you in when you're, when you're ready.

So now with your program specifically, just because I know it and we've talked, you know, you see a lot of high ticket programs that are, you know, three months, six months and 12 months. So I'm curious, how do you get people excited about a 12 month program? Because typically when people see how long or they see the length of a program, they make a subconscious decision about, oh, this, this is how long it's going to take to get to my goal, which can sometimes be disempowering. So how do you get people excited about a six month or 12 month experience?

Yeah, so my Freedom Accelerator is a 12 month container and it's very intentionally 12 months because the program promise is really big and I know to give people enough time and space and given that like shiz happens and you get ill and then we've had, we've got two people in the program right now who are pregnant. It's like morning sickness. Kick their ass. And that's okay. It will impact like how you run your business. And I know that the program promise on the Freedom Accelerator is really big and 12 months is definitely the amount of time required to be able to reach that really big promise. Now that's not to say that they're not going to be able to create epic wins really quickly. I think that's the thing here. If you say, right, My program is 12 months, months, and then people are thinking, oh, it's going to take me 12 months to create results. Then you've done something wrong in the way you've articulated your program. So to counteract that, the way that I portray my program when I'm describing it is I say, well, there's three phases I take you through and you move through them as quickly or as slowly as you want to. And in phase one, we do this and this and you get X result. So usually in the first 30 to 60 days, my clients have made back their entire investment in literally the first month.

Month.

Most people make that entire investment within 90 days is the backstop. So then people are like, okay, cool. In the first three months I ordered an XYZ and got X result. And then I've got nine months left. Wow. Okay, so then what's phase two about, Rose? And what's phrase three about? So they can kind of see that journey and what will happen at each stage, roughly for them. Obviously there's never any guarantees, but they have that vision and then they know it's not going to take 12 months. It's going to be like a couple of months and then something's going to happen. A couple months and something else is going to happen. So that's how I like to articulate the journey and then people are able to get their head and heart behind. Okay, this is what I'm about to do and I'm not going to have to wait 12 months to get the results.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's a difference between, you know, the transformation promise and then you can have your quick wins. Right. You get people excited about their first, like if they're trying to climb Mount Everest, get them excited about the first summit. Because people come for content and stay for community. Yeah. You know, and I just think it's interesting is that it just. People struggle a lot with communicating an actual promise because there is a line of responsibility between what you as the coach are responsible for and what your client is responsible for. You can't do your push ups for them, you can't eat for them. So sometimes that can be really hard to navigate. So I'm curious how you have, how you have been able to empower your clients to own their own experience and as well as give them the support that they need.

Yes, three words. Pre framing. Pre framing. Pre framing. So what do I mean by that exactly? Well, I've got a couple of things at the very beginning of my program that I talk about. We've got a program promise and that basically lists all the things that I promise to them that I'll teach them and show them and guide them through and commit to. And then I've got on the other side of that page a list of what I expect from them. And that might be things like implementing everything that you commit to or taking full Responsibility or doing all the stuff that basically you want them to make sure they do so that they can actually achieve the outcome. So that's the first thing. The second thing is I've got a couple of videos in that first like setup for success area that really pre frames how I want them to show up inside that program, videos around like who gets the best results inside programs like this, what to do when you feel like you are retreating back or going into self sabotage mode or anything like that so that you can really pinpoint the behaviors that you know are going to sabotage your clients or they can pinpoint them for themselves and then they can agree, right when this happens, I'm going to do X, Y, Z. So when I find myself hiding in the group, I'm going to post in the Facebook group and say, hey, I'm hiding, I need some help I on this thing that I'm really stuck with, for instance. And then feel free to reinforce that with accountability forms or accountability check ins and things like that, which is obviously very common in the health industry anyway. And to also be aware of your language because at the end of the day when you keep saying like we are going to help you get to X, it's putting the responsibility on you as the coach quite a lot. And instead you want to empower your clients to get resourceful themselves and say, right, you are going to be able to achieve X and they need to realize that they're pulling on you as the coach or the PT or whoever you you're taking the role as, as their thought partner, as their guide, as their accountability buddy rather than as like their mother or another role that really isn't what you want to achieve.

So I, yeah, I'm also curious. I love that. That's just so, that's powerful. And I'm curious, you know, as you have created and cultivated this group dynamic, how have you combated some of the different personalities that maybe get called together? What happens if not everyone in the group jives? How have you set the tone inside of your community so that people don't hide, so that people respect and honor each other? Because undoubtedly, you know, we're all human beings having a human, human experience. So how have you nurtured that environment so that everyone feels safe essentially?

Yeah, I definitely learned some lessons around this for sure. I shared a video where I shared a lot of vulnerability with my clients because I realized people didn't feel safe to be vulnerable. And there was a lot of people like celebrating their own wins and successes and the people that weren't getting the wins that week, were feeling a bit crap about themselves or people that were struggling with something they didn't want to share because it felt very shameful, feel like they just were on their own. So I shared a very vulnerable video, me crying a little bit. And it allowed people to be like, oh, actually being vulnerable is welcome. And that's okay. So that was a really powerful shift that I made. I also have an NDA policy, as in no dicks allowed policy. You're gone, babe. Sorry. That's an important one, I'd say, for sure. And then also just knowing that when you get a group of so many people together, not everybody's going to get on with each other. And that's okay. That's just life, isn't it, really? When you're at school with 30 other kids, you didn't get on with everybody. And that's all right. And to also stop trying to make your group coaching programs perfect, because life isn't perfect. So stop trying to control everybody's experience inside the program to make it absolutely incredible. Yes. Do what you say you're going to do. Deliver on your programme promise, be authentic, be with an integrity, do all the stuff you're expected to do as a business owner, but don't try and make everybody's experience perfect. And respond to all of the nitty gritty feedback you might get as you run a group coaching program of 30, 40, 50 people. Instead, just recognize that, that life ain't perfect. So stop trying to make your group coaching program perfect as well.

I love that. I love that. So just to switch gears a little bit, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about pricing, right? Because we've been talking about high ticket and I'm in the fitness space. And so I am not going to lie to you when we talk about high ticket. My clients are like $200. And I'm like, whoa, let's start thinking bigger here, right? Because, you know, we're used to Planet Fitness $10. We're used to, you know, free beachbody having all these resources out there. So people are almost conditioned to think that fitness needs to be low ticket. I don't want to say cheap because it's not. It's, you know, every person has their, you know, it's not for us to decide what's expensive and what's not. So I'm curious, you know, how, because I know you've worked with people as well in the fitness space. So how have you approached that when the majority of the market is used to seeing free or, or low ticket.

Yeah, this really is a limiting belief problem. So I had a client a couple of years ago now who came to me who's in the fitness space in the female weight loss, female fat loss type space. And she had been told by mentors and people that she knew in the industry that she couldn't beyond 200 pounds a month, about $300, let's say, for what she sells. Otherwise it won't sell any longer. I was like, seriously, is that, do you genuinely believe that? And literally a month later she sold a spot £500amonth, which is six or $700. And then she was at £600 soon after that. I was like, well you've just completely proven that to be wrong. And then other people in her industry like realize what she was doing and kept asking her like, how are you doing that? How are you able to sell something for five or six hundred dollars a month, get people signed up to 3K packages and things like that. And she's like, well, you just got to first change your mindset around it and then start looking at where are your highest quality leads coming from? What sort of packages are you actually selling at that level? What is the pain point that you're solving for at that level? Is it just female fat loss or is it something slightly more advanced? Is it female fat loss with hormonal issues on top? Is the female fat loss with PCOS on top or something like that that actually it's a bit more advanced and they're not going to get the answers from their doctor, they're going to get the answers from you as the coach who has really looked at this yourself or had your own personal experience around it and is known for helping in that area. So obviously niching down is really powerful here. Talking to something that I like to call the high ticket client mentality. What is it that makes somebody say, yep, 3k is definitely what I'm happy to spend on this problem. Sign me up, off we go. Where are these people coming from? Why is it they that their psychology is different compared to other people that only will spend like $100 or something? And actually probably worth me sharing. I know of a health and fitness related offer available in London which is about £85,000, so well over 100k for the year and that is specifically geared towards CEOs, business owners and people that often travel a lot for work. So they find themselves in Beijing in a hotel, not knowing what to eat from the menu to keep on track with their macros and things like that that you can create very bespokely for somebody and charge them a chunk of money because they really value being able to feel fit, lean, strong and energized for their job. And because of their income and what their business is doing or their role as a CEO and the bonuses they might be getting 100 grand on that is well worth it. And thinking about like where else are those clients that really value what you do and why is it that they're willing to spend more money for that? So yeah, there's always clients at every single price point, including 100k price points for the year in the health and fitness space.

Love that. And I'm also curious your thoughts and opinions because or on the idea of both accessibility when you have. People will say to me, you know, if 78% of Americans, and I can only speak to America, but 78Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, then how is, you know, how big is that market space really? Number one and then number two, you know, especially I don't watch the news, but a lot of, but I know that there's a lot of fear mongering that goes on in the news. And so when we've got things like economic down downturns and oh, this pandemic and all these are reasons why people are living in this scarcity mindset. It can be challenging to present a ticket offer. So what are some of the things that you've really helped your clients with?

Yeah, so economic downturn, but oh, inflation's really high. So there's more money sloshing around than ever before. Interesting. And how big is the US population? Let's do that calculation real quick. Is it nearly 400 million now? Not quite, is it?

I mean there's like 8 billion people on this planet. So there's so many people.

Exactly. So let's say just round up to 400 million and we've got 20% of people that are, are not on like paycheck to paycheck. So we're looking at 80 million people potentially. Oh, that's a little bit over the top at this point. Let's halve it for argument's sake and go down to 40 million because we know some are kids and old people. Oh, there's 40 million people now what percentage of those 40 million people are going to be interested in their health and fitness? Quite a few at this point. We're in the 21st century now. Everybody's obsessed with this stuff. But let's assume it's only 10% of these 40 million. So we're being very, very conservative. There's still 4 million people in the US that are willing to pay good money. I think that will be enough to have a. Probably a very, very healthy business for at least 20 years.

At least. Right. I mean, only 4 million people. I mean, it's so true. It's so true. But there's this book. There's this book called Perfectly Irrational. People don't think. They're just thinking in their small context box and what's right in front of them as opposed to what's true, which is that there are 4 million people who have just never heard of you before.

Yes. And if we think about how many clients we actually need to have a really successful business, it's probably only 50 to 100 in any given year. Sometimes less.

Yes. Not 4 million.

Nowhere near.

You know, and then also, too, when we're talking about different markets.

Right.

And I don't know about you, Ms. Rose, but for me, I have a much easier time selling to people who are excited about possibility and are ready to invest than I do the people that are, you know, hoarding their dollars and pennies. And even though I'm asking for $27.

Yeah.

Right. It's almost harder to sell to someone for $27 than it is for 2700.

I 100% agree. I just. I just cannot be honest with it anymore. It's way easy to sell a 15-18k product for me now. Really.

And I just think, too, about my own buying behaviors and when I'm thinking about solving my own problems.

Right.

I don't want the $22 offer. Like, just stop making me wait. I don't want that. Can you just tell me, tell me what my options are so that I can make the decision myself. Right. It goes back to who is it that you're serving? Yeah, right. I'm a CEO. I make decisions all day long. I don't need you to. To hoard information for me. Just give me my options so that I can make the decision.

Yeah. And people are really craving personalization as well. I find now, like, if you're presenting with multiple health challenges and maybe slightly disordered eating that you really, really would like some guidance on, you've maybe tried therapy or hypnotherapy on, but actually you just need another human that's had the same experience who can kind of talk you through that moment. You just really want to emotionally eat. Like, you can't exactly call your therapist at that point. And so having that coach at your side is really powerful. And people are sometimes so willing to spend really good money for that kind of support too.

Oh, I'm really glad that you brought that up because I'll speak to my own experience is that I had, um, I was having trouble with my children sleeping and so I actually hired someone to help me because my husband is out of the house 60 hours a week. So it's literally me only. And it was like I was dreading bedtime in a way that is like dreading it. So I had about 14 days of this person that I could just literally like be crying on the phone to, on text, like voice messages of like, this is so hard. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. And it was like a 7 to 14 day sprint.

Yeah.

And it was the game changer for me that helped me get my kids to sleep. So valuable, right? So valuable. It's like sometimes all you just need is that extra support, the custom strategy and the extra support. It doesn't have to be all the time. Like I'm not, not calling her every single day. Right. But it was just that seven day sprint of.

7:00Pm to 8:00pm Right.

So yeah, that hour that is like, that looms over you. And so when you really think about it in terms of the context of time, that was seven hours of time that I needed support in like, you know, 30 days.

Yeah. Yeah. So good. That's a good example.

Yeah. So it's, you know, and, and that, you know, I would pay top dollar for.

Yeah. And also it's not just those seven days that you had help, it then impacted your bet for years afterwards. So you pay for the long run impact, not just seven days for sure.

It's like that's, you know, that's just an example of, of how you can position your offers to demonstrate the ROI and the, and the ripple effect on the return on investment. Even though it's just an intense time in the moment that you're giving. But it's going to have, it's going to pay back in dividends.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

But people just don't see that.

No, but you've got to get them to see that as the marketer, your services, it's really important that sometimes. Well, really you're responsible for articulating the value of what you sell. No one else is going to do it for you, so you've got to do it. And so tapping into things like that is really powerful then for people saying, oh, actually this is worth it. I'm willing to go and find the two grand, three grand over it might be to make it happen.

So I'm actually really glad that you brought it up because it's a perfect segue into my next question, which is that I sometimes when I'm finding for me personally is that people, when they start to get to that certain level or they start to get to that upper limits where maybe they are ready to invest, the first thing that they ask is, can you just do it for me? You know, they're like, I want an agent agency. Right. So have you run into that and how do you combat that?

I've run into it twice. So actually not very much at all in the grand scheme of things and percentage wise, but I actually have a video out there on my ads right now that is literally something like, why Invest in a 15k coach when you could get a marketing agency to create the same result? Or something like that. And I go into detail about like, why that is and why you, you would hire a coach to do it versus hiring a marketing team to do the work for you, why learn it for yourself and you can outsource it, that kind of thing. And it's like going into detail around things like, well, if you were to hire an agency, would you actually know why the data is crap? Would you know how to drive that agency? Would you know how to set the strategy with that agency to get the most out of them? Or would you end up with an experience which I hear 99% of the time, which is, oh, yeah, I hired an ads agency or I hired a marketing agency and all it did was burn my cash and I ended up with no results and I'm really pissed off about it, or I feel like I got burned. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You didn't set the strategy properly. You didn't drive them as team members. You just handed your marketing problem over to somebody else and expected them to fix it for you. It's not how business works, babe. So I get really on my high horse about this one, honestly. Me too.

And honestly, you know, I've also fallen into the trap is that, you know, wanting to your clients results faster. It's like, no, no, let me just do it for you. But then that's like, that's like you're just robbing your clients of lessons. And it was so interesting to me as I reflected on those experiences because I was like, I don't hover over my Kids, I let them learn their own lessons. So why am I hovering over my clients? And nobody, nobody is going to know your business and know your voice better than you?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's so true. I mean, yes, you'll learn stuff from your own agency. You'll learn stuff when people do stuff for you. But I remember distinctly getting really, really annoyed one Saturday morning, but the ads weren't getting results, and I was like, maybe I can do this better on my own. So I whipped up a campaign really quickly because I know how to use ads. I teach ads to my clients and got something out there. And literally three days later, I was beating the ads agency's results. I was like, I should just trusted myself with this. So, yeah, I would much prefer to give people the skill set to be able to make money in their business or for your audience, maybe it's to give them the skillset to be able to make really good lifelong decisions around health every single day, rather than them relying on you all the time. So I feel like that is true empowerment for your clients when you're able to equip them with the skill set and the learnings. And sometimes that does require you to step back a little bit.

It's hard. It's definitely hard, too. And I think, or can be hard, I should say. And, you know, like, if you try to learn the lesson for your client, you know, you are. It's like trying to keep your children in a little bubble and act as if, no, the world is not going to hurt them. And it's just.

That's called helicopter parenting, isn't it?

Yes, yes, Helicopter parenting.

Helicopter coach.

Yes, exactly. It's so true. And also, too, what ends up happening is that you oftentimes is that you invest more money than you're making into people that don't care about your business the way you do.

Yeah. You are one of many of their clients, potentially. They. Yeah, they're just not going to know as well as you, even if they're the best copywriters in the world or the best ad agency in the world. Nothing sometimes beats really doing your own stuff and learning your lessons.

So, you know, when. How do you and I want to be mindful of your time? So this will be one of our last questions, but how do you navigate the nuances between, you know, leveraging your time and growing your team and starting to hire out versus, you know, doing. Doing it yourself?

So it's interesting you should ask this because this has definitely been on my mind over the last few months. We made two new hires this month, beginning of January. And that was really exciting, a little bit scary. I kind of got to the point where you become the bottleneck in your business. Whether that is your bottleneck for sales often happens that you can only take so many sales calls or your bottleneck for leads because you can only have so many conversations in the DMs or something like that. And so one of the biggest mistakes I see coaches and people in the online space make is hiring non income generating team members. And that might be like a videographer or an executive assistant that does tasks for you, but are they actually focusing on the right tasks and are you spending the extra time you've got back on income generating stuff or they'll hire co coaches to deliver in their programs, but they haven't actually got the lead generation sales system down yet to warrant the co coach and the extra spend. All these sorts of extra team members just add cost lines to the business and they crunch down on that profit. And end of the day we are in business to make profits as well as help people. If there's no profit, there's no business. We've got to be aware of that too, particularly with an online business business. So when it comes to hiring team members, I'm very conscious of who's income generating and who isn't in my team and then how much are we paying each person respectively. So one of the people that I hired last year and trained last year was actually somebody to work in my DMs. She works in there a couple of hours a day and that was hugely income generating. The person that I hired and then trained brought in a 15k client for me. After 30 days I was like, ah, okay, hey, this role works in my business, we can continue doing this. So yeah, I found that I was spending so much time in the dms and TMS are really good. They are lead generating, they are sales making. They are definitely an income generating place for me to be. But there's only so many hours in the day. So passing income generating stuff onto a team really, really powerful because then they're driving the result for you in the business. But I'm a big fan of a lean team, lean mean income generating team and keeping things really simple and building assets. The other thing as well, right now we've spent a lot of money on team because I'm very consciously building assets this month and this quarter that we're going to be reaping the profit from in the months and years to come. So I'm willing to spend an extra 10k on team or whatever it might be this month to be able to make that happen in the long run. So yeah, lots of factors that come into play with this whole team conversation, to be honest.

I know it could be a whole nother. It could be a whole nother podcast. This is what we're doubling down on in Excel in my accelerator is talking about how because you keep. We, we're always going to have upper limits. It's just we're, we're. No matter what it is, you know, you first hundred k then five hundred k. Like there's always going to be something where you are needing to make a decision and evaluating whether or not, you know, evaluating what your ROI is going to be. And so, and there's just. Sometimes you just have to decide and then assess. Right.

Yeah.

So I just was curious your thoughts on that. Okay, so. So for those of you I want to be mindful of your time. So for those of you who want to learn more about you, come hang out with you. Where should I set that?

Okay, so if you're interested in learning how to craft a high ticket group coaching program and scale it on Evergreen so you don't have to ride the launch roller coaster anymore, you have science. You can have clients sign up every single week. Just head to roseradford.comworkshop go and grab my workshop. And it's an incredible two hours of training where I answer lots of questions and, and just peel back the lid on what it takes to be able to scale a business to multi six and seven figures on Evergreen. If you want to just come stalk my content, Instagram is the best place to come and find my free stuff. And that is I am Rose Radford over on Instagram.

Okay, amazing. And we of course will link all of that up in our show notes. So thank you so much, Rose for coming and hanging out with us today. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for listening to the PT Profit podcast. If you like this episode, chances are your friends will too. So it would be a huge service to us if you would please leave us a review and share with your friends on your social media channels. When you leave us a review, be sure to take a screenshot of it and email that screenshot to my team@info simpsonfitness.com and we'll send you a very special Instagram podcast that will show you how to create compelling content so that your ideal clients come to you. And you go from wanting clients to a wait list of clients ready for your services. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode.