The Invisible Components to Patient-Centered Care with Kristi Barker

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 120. Today I'm sitting down with Dr. Christi Barker, and we're talking all about the invisible components to patient centered care. Are you ready? Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance and movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up, coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson. I'm super pumped to bring to you Dr. Christy Barker, who has a Master's of Physical therapy degree from the University of Saskatchewan, Saskatchewan. She treats in person at Stapleford Health and Rehab center in Regina, Saskatchewan. Christy created the reach rehab@reach.rehab on Instagram after Covid with the goal to increase access to physiotherapy and educate others on injury prevention. In this episode today, she shares her story, her why and how she got there. And I'm super pumped to get this episode out to you because it's such a heartwarming story. In fact, it's brought tears to my eyes when she first shared it. So prior to becoming a physiotherapist, she played Division 1 volleyball and was a personal trainer. She is a passionate, driven, and focused on keeping her patients active throughout their rehab journey. She believes that every individual is an athlete and prioritizes the treatment plan around their goals. So without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. What's up, Christy? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you?

I am doing great. Had a pretty busy morning. It's. It's not snowing here yet in Canada, so I'm happy.

Oh, my gosh. Is it going to snow there already?

Oh, like some years it'll snow like early October. Even actually. Even earlier. Yeah.

You know, it's funny. So I'm in New York and so New York has some of those moments, too. Like, we're in a. It's always. We always have these nor' Easters right around now and then, you know, sometimes it snows and right now it's just raining like crazy. Yeah, I mean, it's. We've taken a break, but the last couple of days we've had some flooding, so. I get it. But I'm super happy to be here with you today. I can't wait to dive into this conversation. Right before I hit record, we were both talking about what a hectic, crazy morning it has been. So I'm so excited to just slow down, hang out with you today. So for those of you in my audience who have not had the pleasure of working with you or knowing who you are, I'd love for you to just share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

Cool. I'm Christy Barker. I just recently got married, so you may know me as Christy Block and on Instagram.

Congratulations.

Thank you. It feels like it's already been like a long time, but it's only been a few months, but. And you may know me as reach rehab on Instagram. And I'll try to make a long story short, but how I kind of got invested in doing education online for physiotherapy was about, I guess it'd be about two and a half years ago now. I went on a trip to Uganda and I had this aha moment because there's obviously you go and you want to help. And what we were doing there is we were helping distribute wheelchairs and fit people for wheelchairs. And so. But then you feel like, okay, how much am I really impacting people? How much am I like, you fly all that way. And my aha moment with was a mother came in with her 3 year old son and he, they thought that he needed a wheelchair. And after more assessment, he. We realized he was just really weak because the mom always carried him everywhere so he didn't develop those muscles against gravity. So all it took was 10 to 20 minutes out of my life to just educate the mom that he doesn't need the wheelchair, that he just needs to improve his strength and just education on how she should handle and carry him and well, or not carry him. And I guess that really impacted me in terms of how powerful education can be. And at the time, I didn't think of anything of it. I just knew that I felt like there was more I could do. And then Covid happened. And with COVID as you know, a lot of us got stuck at home. A lot of people ended up having kind of more injuries related to like a desk job at a terrible kitchen chair. And people started reaching out to me and I just, you know what? I was like, okay, maybe this is where the education comes in. And I tossed up a few posts on Instagram and here we are.

Hey, that Is amazing. I love that. I mean, I remember when you told me that story about.

Oh, Uganda.

Yeah, Uganda.

Uganda.

My audience knows I make up words all the time. So I was like, wait, I have to make sure I say this right. But it had just some of the most profound, you know, the. One of the most profound impacts on me because I think it is a nuanced conversation about how we can be, you know, improve our client care and improve accessibility for people who potentially don't have access or the resources or the education to really, you know, how.

How are.

What we can do as an industry to really impact. I think is. Is huge and undervalued. And so I'd love for you to share a little bit in your insight, your insight on how you have been restructuring your patient experience to improve that patient.

Experience. Well, definitely. I would say that kind of my. What I go for is really simplifying it. I feel like too often we kind of get in our, in our zone as a therapist and we have, we want to share all of our knowledge and I think it's out of like excitement and. But the patient. So for example, for someone such as the mom in Uganda, she just needed it basic. I mean, obviously there were some language barriers, but we had to just simplify it. And now I've tried to really put that into my practice now especially online is I was finding that when I initially did post with like a lot more content, like a big caption, not only was like, was I feeling like this is a lot to put out there, but other people really responded much better with less. Like less is more. Right. So I feel like making it much easier for people to understand. You have to really, really. Which it's actually hard. Like me and my husband were talking about how like when we see things and they look simple, there's a lot of work behind that because simplifying it is actually harder than what we think.

Oh my gosh. So true. I mean, I think it's truly a gift to be able to simplify really complex things. Keep going.

Yes. Yeah. But yeah. So that's what led me to wanting to talk today about patient centered care. I feel like it's something that we kind of all have obviously heard about, but it's something we kind of maybe are like, oh yeah, we got to listen better and maybe brush through. But I think it's like a great topic to talk about because that ultimately is what helps patients get better. And I feel like a lot of what physiotherapy is, is we're trying to really, especially online based, is get patients to direct their and self manage on their own. And that's the definition of patient centered care is having them actively participate in their own treatment plan. So I feel like for me, especially with things moving online and people not being able to go in as frequently because of COVID I feel like that is a huge component and something that we kind of sometimes overlook. So one of my favorite things that I say maybe it's not good, but I find it's like a good opener or closer with patients is I say that it's my goal to get rid of you, which they're kind of like taken back. And it's true. And then I say as much as I care and love my patients, it's my goal that you don't have to come in and see me weekly. My goal is for you to be self managing on your own. And I think it just quickly flips that picture for them in terms of, yeah, like I'm busy, like I can do this on my own. It gives them that empowerment. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I do. And I think and I love that, I love that. And I'd love for you to just dive into a little bit of your process and how you actually build out a patient centered experience. Like what is the step by step process? Because I know for me when I hear that, you know, I always looking at the opposite. But I think of it too in terms of my kids. Like if I were to ask my kids every single day, what do you want for dinner? They're going to tell me, I want Mac and cheese and ice cream, mommy. So of course I'm going to meet them where they're at and put a little Mac and cheese. But I'm also going to give them their veggies and their broccoli or their veggies and their protein. So I'm curious how you build out a patient centered program essentially that's going to meet them where they're at, but also give them where they need.

So for example, let's use your kids, for example. Do you just put the broccoli on their plate and you're like, nope, you're eating it because. Because I'm the pizza. Because I'm the mom and you're the kid. No. Right. You probably are like, broccoli is good for your body and you're gonna get big and strong like daddy or you know, whatever. I'm not a parent. I don't know what parents do. But you get to their level and you give them that education. Right. So the same thing goes as a PT with a patient. So I guess the way that I like to go into it and I don't know other therapist tricks, but. Or not tricks, but just the way that I really like to envision my patients is I like to think of them as my best friend's parent. So I'm gonna go with like a parent. But none of us, we've all tried like treating our parents and we know how that goes. So when our best friend's parent, we know their life or we kind of know them. Right. We know their dynamic, we care about them extremely. We're going to go that extra mile to take care of them. We're going to go that extra mile, spend that time being patient, listening to their concerns and making sure that what we give them is going to fit into their life. So if we kind of, when, when a patient comes in and we think of them as having that connection, I think we'll automatically be able to be more empathetic, be more willing to listen instead of just another patient, another number, if that makes sense. So I think mindset as a therapist is huge. And that's a nice way to kind of just change your mentality because, for example, like, I know I did end up treating one of my friend's parents and I remember the feeling of like how. Yeah, how calm and how much I listened and I really try to do that with my other patients. But anyway, so mindset is big. And then I guess some of the things that I want to talk about in terms of what I do, I think can we dive in first? What things we don't do right. With patient centered care?

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I'd love for you to do that.

Okay, cool. I think that like we as healthcare professionals, I think we like, we all go into this field and maybe not, but let's hope because we want to help people. Right? Like why did you go into this field? Yeah. You want to help people? We want to give back. So I don't think that anyone like any therapist out there is like means to not provide patient centered care. I think it just kind of sneaks up on us, kind of like bad posture, you know, like.

Yeah, well, I think absolutely. I think it's twofold, Right. I think that the industry doesn't set us up for a patient centered focus because they're constantly, you know, trying to push people through the door, the revolving door. And it's not about making that wrong or bad, but I think that there is, you know, we're trying to expedite. And I think that the other component of it is that our brain is designed to take the path of least resistance. So the more sessions that you do, the more you start to feel like you already know what's going to happen. It's brain based. And I think that we have to be, you know, as personal trainers, as physical therapists, we have to make sure that we're aware of that and consciously change that.

In my opinion, you hit that perfectly because I was just going to go into the system in terms of like appointment timelines. So I really, really agree with that. I feel like let's say in a private practice setting, it's just one example, let's say we have 20 minute appointments, we have patients back to back. Within that 20 minutes we're supposed to connect with the patient, listen, answer their questions, provide a bit of hands on treatment, provide some homework and then chart. Right? So it's a lot. And I Do you know what I.

20 minutes.

Yeah.

No wonder y' all are behind every day.

But that's where I really want to see our healthcare system go is I want to, I really think that there will be better patient centered care. Especially like if we can have that additional time to just listen. Because if the therapist is feeling rushed and pressured to fit all these things in, then how are we going to be able to just listen and provide that empathy and that care? You know what I mean? But no, I agree. So things I want to touch on was like that I like to do. So let's say it is 20 minutes. So if we can break that down, okay, What I've tried to do is right at the beginning of the session is again letting them kind of direct treatment, which is hard, right? Because we may have like a plan in our mind going into the treatment. But what I try to do is use an open ended question. So what is a treatment you were hoping to receive today? Or do you know what I mean? Because let's say if you have a 20 minute treatment point or just any appointment and you think you're all done, like you've wrapped it up, you're like, okay, ready for the next patient. And that patient looks like, you know what I mean? When they're like looking at you like they have another question or they say, oh, I was hoping we were going to go through this today. That's when I'm like, you missed it, you know, like you missed. Because unless sometimes we just have patients that have will have endless questions as well. Let's. Let's not talk about that patient. But, like, do you know what I mean? Like, if they're still lingering and you can see that they are still have questions, then I feel like that should have been addressed at the beginning of the appointment because that would have been them leading the care and. Or being a team in that treatment plan versus me just deciding it. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I do. Absolutely. Okay, so now is there anything that you do in your process that helps you. That helps you expedite it? Meaning, like, is there, like, do you take information early so that you can try and get a handle on it before you see them?

Yeah. So definitely we are. We're kind of jumping ahead of where.

Oh, sorry. Okay, keep going. Answer it later. Answer in your process.

I like that. Okay. Because we'll go back to like, kind of errors in the system, but. Sorry, ask a question now. I lost train of thought.

I was just going to say, is there anything you do in your process to kind of expedite that so you can maximize the time that you're with the patient?

Absolutely. I feel like. So is that connecting with that patient? So, for example, definitely. Like, even in the first assessment, I think before I even get into physio mode, I just really want to connect with that patient. And I feel like the better that you get to know your patient, the better you will be able to manage your time. Because if you know that patient is going to have a lot of questions, or if you know that patient is, you know what I mean? Like, then you're able to either bring it up early or just, like, do it right away at the beginning of the appointment and just kind of go through that. But I would say some of the biggest parts is just connection. So, I mean, I love people. Like, I think that's what's kind of cool about physiotherapy is. Is I. What I love the most about is just getting to know the person. So let's say, for example, me and you just met. And what I am very interested in is what drives you, what is your goal in life. Like, and that thing that might change too, but everyone is so different, you know, Like, I have someone who knits for hours. Oh, yeah. Or like a bird watcher. You know, I had someone that they loved to watch birds, and I find out, and I find it fascinating. And I think that the more that you get to know them and what fascinates them and interests them, the easier that I will be able to provide that education Are they someone that loves in depth? Do they want to know all the answers or do they want to just get to the point? And I find that that helps direct the treatment plan way easier, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does. Absolutely. Okay, so going.

Go.

Going back to what's broken.

Oh, okay. So I would say the other thing is like us disregarding their questions. So for example, I feel like I remember back in PT school, that was like an example exam question is the patient was like, but I have a question. And then you're supposed to obviously address their question instead of being like, but I have to get through this treatment. And I think that it's easier said than done because again, we have this list of things in our mind of what we want to do. But. But I really, really believe in just answering their questions. And even if that means it takes like, it takes up the treatment time. So, for example, I had assessment just yesterday and we barely even got to any objective assessment. Honestly, it was just listening, trying to do a good job of listening to what they had to say and talk about how their mental health impacted their physical health and then just answering their questions. And I could feel myself want to itch to like jump to the objective assessment. But I feel like really without sitting and listening, I guess I should have said it's more so listening. But then it wouldn't have led me to learn that that person had had some issues with the healthcare system with a previous physio and fears around it. And if we just disregard their feelings and we don't listen to them, then is that person going to come back? You know, like, how did I not just listened and she talked about her fears, then I wouldn't be able to address those things, like about physiotherapy and what I hope to provide for her or us as a team. So I guess disregarding their questions and then just not listening and it's. Again, a lot of these things are very common sense, but I think it's about the awareness kind of like you said, we all know we should have good posture. We know we should get up every half an hour or even more than that. But actually being aware and conscious of it, I think is really important.

Yeah, you know, it is important and it is a skill that I feel like a lot of things. And I think, to your point, is that people think it's common, but there's a reason why we have that saying. Common sense isn't so common. And, you know, we just assume that people are doing that. And I think that people get put on automation and they think they're doing it, not realizing.

Yes.

That there's a missing component here. That we're trying to speed it and it's not their fault.

Yes.

Just how it's taught.

Yeah. Well, a good example. I was going to. I was trying to think of examples because, like, I mean, I'm a culprit of this. Like, this has happened to the best. Sure.

Me too. Me too. Yes.

So the other day, or not the other day, I was thinking of an example though it would be. I had an assessment on someone and it was something a more serious condition. So my brain went to the assessment tools, contacting the doctor. Okay, now we're getting a drop foot. Does that mean that we're getting compressive symptoms on the spinal cord? And so I went into full. Okay, zone in mode. We need to help this person. We need to contact, you know, just out of care and out of like, concern about that immediate tension that the patient needed. But then what I forgot about was the patient. Right. Like, I forgot that they're there, they're just as fearful. They're just, you know, and I got so focused and wrapped up on getting them that direct care that they need and that proper referral as soon as possible. And I forgot about the person in front of me. And I think that those are just. Yeah. Simple mistakes. Where. Well, not simple, but it's like. It's like our brain. It's hard because we're all. I would say most physios are probably type A. I mean, maybe that's too general of me to say, but I would say. Well, would you say you're type A? I don't know.

Well, I'm a trainer, so I'll tell you that.

Right.

Yeah. No, it's okay.

It's okay.

I just want to clarify for anyone listening, I am not pretending to be physical therapist. I am not a pt, but I work with a lot of pts. I work with a lot of pts and I work with a lot of personal trainers.

And yes.

I mean, you have to be in terms of science, like you are a linear left side type A brain.

Yeah. So I would say knowing who you are will help. Right. So knowing, like me having an understanding that I am more type A and that I like to do things a certain way and I like to have that certain knowledge base. Understanding who I am as a therapist will help direct better care. Because knowing that. That I like to have a list of things that I want to get through and then it will help you create that awareness of, oh, I got to step back, I have to just provide what they want. Like let's say, like, willingness to change is a big part of that component too. So for example, right, because someone's goals can change and that's what's like that, that's can, that can be. What can be frustrating is let's say someone came in for an assessment, they're like, oh, I really want to run this marathon, this is my goal. And you thought you did a good job listening to what they want, listening to their goals, and then all of a sudden they come in with a different goal. Right? And then your whole treatment plan will change. But we have to be willing. At least my type A self, I have to be willing to be like, ok, redirect my treatment to what they want, if that makes sense. But like you said, you don't want to always just give. You can't always just give what they want. It's that fine balance of care. So for example, you mentioned otherwise your kids would never eat vegetables, right?

Yes, they never would. Yeah.

Oh yeah. So hard. So then that's where that education comes in. So for example, making sure that they know different treatment options and providing them with evidence based practices and explaining why a certain treatment that or as a therapist, I'd feel a certain treatment is better than the other. Because if they don't know, then of course they're gonna. If your kids don't know the benefits of broccoli or understand why it's gonna make them feel good versus eating cake every day or whatever, you know, then of course they're not gonna understand that. But obviously it depends if you're talking to who you're talking to. But here's another example. I had patient come in, she wanted ultrasound. It wasn't for like. And again, everyone has their own treatment options. For me personally, I don't use ultrasound too often unless it's maybe in with an acute issue or if it's like we're really needing to help speed up the healing process. But with this patient, it wasn't really, I wouldn't say it was even close to the top of a treatment plan that would be productive for her. So she was really wanting to do it. And again, you could just be like, brush her off, like brush that off. Because maybe I don't think that's the best treatment plan. But I think again, understanding who you are and creating that awareness and listening to her wants and then explaining, okay, this is in my practice, this is where these are other treatment options. That I would have found to be more successful. But absolutely, you can do ultrasound because you don't want to write that off because a lot of it can be placebo effect as well. Right. So long story short, what we ended up doing is we met in the middle. So I didn't write off ultrasound altogether. I provided her with another treatment plan that I felt would be beneficial, but I still kept ultrasound even though I really didn't want to do it. If I'm being honest, I really didn't feel that would be worth her time. But if she believed that, then we have to be willing to meet in the middle with the patient, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

You meet in the middle with your kids with their food.

With their food. Yeah, I do. I mean, so for me personally, with my kids, when I meet, I always give them a little bit of what they want and then a little bit of what they need. And to your point, the power of why and the power of because is so important.

Right.

It's not about. I'm. I'm never trying to control my kids, my patients, my clients. Nobody or not my patients, but my clients.

Right.

My students, my. I'm not trying to control anybody. It's not. That's not the point. The point is to help them, you know, see a different perspective. That is, that's really what I'm personally going for. And. And I always give them options or the illusion of an option.

Oh, do tell.

Do you want to. Honey, do you want to put the kids to bed before or after you did the dishes?

I thought you were going to put it towards training, but that was better. I like that. Marriage tips. This is great.

You know, it presupposes that he's going to do both.

Yeah, yeah. But I like that. I like how you did that because it's like you're still providing an option, but you're kind of, you're directing, you're guiding them towards a treatment plan that would be helpful for them. But I definitely think that's where. Yeah. Getting to know and really connect with them. Right. I find, like, actually that would be my number one suggestion for patient centered care is just connect with them. There's always, in my opinion, something that you can find that you can connect with someone. And I would say, whether it be like, let's say the bird watcher. So I wouldn't say I regularly watch birds by any means, but that's what inspired. Inspired this patient. So am I going to next appointment talk about what I did on my weekend or Talk about the latest movie that I like. No, no, connect with them, be willing to get to their level, listen to what they're passionate about. I feel like just connecting with them on something that lights them up, that's going to build that trust and they're going to be excited. Even though sometimes physio hurts and makes people sore, they're going to be excited to see you. You can tell because in that next appointment they're like they're dying to show you. Maybe they have a picture, maybe they have something where they're like, hey, I saw this bird or you know, that's an interesting example, but that's just one example where maybe I think we're missing that aspect, is beginning that appointment, connecting on a different level outside of our practice. You know, like if we're only talking about physio within that time, I think we're missing the bigger picture here.

So now how do you, are you cash based or insurance based? How do you incorporate these invisible components when you are on a pressed, time crunch, insurance driven model?

So I do work at a private practice setting so it is very like they're 20 minute appointments, they're back to back to back. I honestly, it's hard to explain because you kind of just have to feel this like where meet the person where they're at on that day. Right. And that's what's so hard about redirecting your care. But yeah, so like it kind of depends on the day you want to see. Like you have to just read your patient. Like body language is another thing. Do they look like they want to chat it up today or do they look like they just want to come in and get their treatment? I think again, understanding your patient will help you minimize and kind of condense everything into one. And will you be able to get through everything? No, I'm going to say it right now. If you're trying to get through everything that you have in your mind, then you're probably rushing through the appointment and you're missing the bigger picture. I think what I do is when a patient comes in, you get a sense of where they're at that day. Right. Like they'll either look like they have a burning question, if they're, I kind of ask them like again, like how do you see today's treatment going or what has been bothering you the most? So really always starting with that open ended question will guide the rest of that treatment. Of course I kind of have like a treatment plan going into it in mind. But if you have too Specific of a treatment plan, then it's harder for you to wrap your head around. Okay. Trying to changing your plan based on what the patient wants. So essentially the patient kind of directs it. Like maybe that's not such a. It's a bit of a fluffy answer, but they do for me at least. And then what we have to do is get good at not interrupting but kind of redirection and kind of change of topic and then being like, so this is a great way to get you running again. So really buying them in. So what they love. So if this person came in, they want to run a marathon. Actually, I'm going to jump to my husband here. Hopefully people don't mind. Sample husband doesn't like go to like. So he's a dentist and I feel like doctors and healthcare professionals are sometimes the worst at actually going and getting the care they need. Right. So I like using him as an example because I'm like, why don't you do more mobility? Or why don't you take care of your back? Because he used to play football and had a back injury, yada yada. Long story short, could not get him to be the slightest interested in seeing physio. And then I was like, oh, I'm going to see. What is he passionate about? Golf. Ok. So it only took a five minute conversation with me and him and granted, maybe it's biased because he's my husband, but redirected to what they love. I was like, you know, I was like, you really look stiff like your golf swing when you're, when you're swinging like that. And that's it. That's all it took. I would never say that way to a patient, but I was like, wouldn't it really help your swing if you had better lumbar mobility? And it was like he had this moment of what, like, oh my God, like connecting what they're passionate about with what we can offer. And I feel like that's where the buy in comes in and then simplifying it. I went kind of on a tangent there. Sorry.

No, it is not. That is so brilliant and so important and it's actually stuff that I talk about all the time inside of. Like when you are crafting your messaging is that when you can associate the action you want them to take to what they value and actually care about, you're going to get to move them. And that's how you powerfully move and shift people to take the actions that you want to do. I do this with my kids all the time. I'll say to them, you know, if I find myself saying, put your shoes on, put your shoes on, put your shoes on, put your shoes on all the time. Instead I'm going to be like, hey, you know Gwenny, it's my eldest name, I'm like Princess, Princess Jasmine. She, you don't see her walking around without her shoes on. And now she's going to do it.

Right. So it's like at her level. And you, and you like use what she, I'm assuming she loves Princess Jasmine.

She does, yes. Yeah.

But no, how do you, how do you incorporate that with your training? Like, how do you, if you have a certain amount of time, how do you direct that with your training?

Me, so I, I work primarily. I don't coach or train anymore, even though my certifications are still current. I work with professionals. Right. And so for me, when I, what I'm hearing, what I hear a lot, and this is probably true too for patients because I think it's part of the human condition is that we are evidence based creatures. So we keep getting evidence over and over and over of experiences that are compounding what we are now setting up our expectations. So like, hey, I did this and this happened. I did this and this happened. And there's a nuanced conversation between identifying what is the definition of insanity and doing that same thing over and over and expecting a different result versus letting go of past experiences and moving forward, taking the lesson that you need and moving forward. So for me, I just really elicit the value. You know, when someone's trying to build a business, what is that business going to get them? What do they really want?

Yes.

What is that? Wealth management. What is the impact that they're going to make when they get. Generate the wealth that they want?

Yes.

Including financial freedom, including ending suffering for their patients in pain, including, you know, providing, you know, you know, generating massive impact. So when I know the value, it can help them take action. Because, because, because in my opinion, you're going to spend more time in the process than you are going to spend with the outcome. So we have to, we have to enjoy the process. Otherwise why do it? Right. So when you can. Yes. So when you can associate the process to the value of the outcome, then you're going to be able to take action, in my opinion.

Yes. I love that you said enjoy the process. This is something my husband and I have been talking about a lot lately too. And I think, because for example, his, his work as a dentist versus as a physiological, it's a little quicker Right. Like you need a root canal, you go, you leave. With physio, it can take months and months and I feel like that's another part of the problem is if we don't educate on the process so often, I think that that's where a lot of questions come from patients, and that's what they don't know. They don't know how long an ACL injury should take to recover or they have a friend that told them, oh, it only took me this a certain amount of time. How come I didn't get better in that time? And that's where that education needs to come from, is explaining the process. It's okay to get sore from your rehab, it's okay to feel this. It's honestly almost more reassurance I find for a lot of people and understanding their fears. So I think a lot of the process and getting the patient to stick with the process is understanding, is learning their fears. Because our fears are what limit us, at least with a lot of the patients that I see. So again, in that assessment that I saw or did the other day, it took a while to kind of get to it, but finally she said, I'm fearful of doctors, I'm fearful of white coats, I'm fearful of the hospital. And this is why. And if I never heard that, if I were to just, oh, I'm going to refer you to this person without even a second thought of like how her feelings are about it. Am I going to be, is she going to have that trust with me? Absolutely not. So I think understanding what they're afraid of, are they afraid to move? Some people simply just that education of you are safe to move, you're safe to do. This movement pattern is huge. But anyway, again, went on a tangent.

But I think, I think that is super powerful. I mean, I think that, you know, being able to provide people that emotional safety and create that, that they can like you're safe to move. I, I think that's an invisible component that people undervalue. And I say this all the time to my, my, my doctors and my, my clients. Is that a big missing component is that people feel like they forget that they have to believe in themselves in order to take action and we miss that.

Yes, yes, I love that you said that. Believe in themselves. Like I think definitely as a physio or trainer, I think that it should be our job to empower them. Again, patient centered care. They have them actively participating in that care. Well, what if they don't know what that looks like? We are there to guide them and empower them that it's OK that you want to do that, it's okay to move. And I think that a lot of times, and this happens to me as well, like we kind of get stuck on looking at okay, what's wrong with the patient when really we should be looking at okay, what are they doing? Right. Encourage them. Encourage, encourage. Give them that ability to direct their own care so that they feel successful and strong to do it on their own. Otherwise they will always want to rely on you.

That's true, that's true.

I saw a quote here I wrote down somewhere. Oh, of course I didn't get who said it, but it says patient centered care is not about what is the matter with a patient, but what matters to patients. And I think our job and we've been trained to look at where the dysfunctional movement is or the issue is, but let's change the way we talk to the patient and empower them. So I really love that you said that.

I love that. And I think that's really too, is really important because I think we can also do that with ourselves.

Yes.

So we're always asking core questions of like how can I improve? How can I improve? Especially, especially at high performing physios and trainers and educators and I think that we forget to stop and remember that we have our own successes as well. And when you can put that practice for yourself, it's only going to translate into your patient centered care, in my opinion.

Absolutely. So doing the self work. Yeah, absolutely. So like as a practitioner, if I'm doing self worked and feeling my best self or feeling confident, that should reflect into my patients. If I haven't taken a course in a few years and I'm feeling unsure, how is that going to impact the patient? Probably not going to make them feel. It's like when, you know what I mean, when you walk in a room and you see a confident person, it impacts you. And for me when I see someone like that, I'm like, I want to do what they do, I want to be encouraged. And that's what's cool about online physio as well, is that hopefully my goal is that people see my content, they see, okay, she can do it, I can do it. Oh, she had this injury and she did this. I can do it. And I think it empowers people to see that as well. Yeah, yeah.

That's part of what makes them feel. So that that makes you magnetic. Yeah, that's what makes you magnetic as a practitioner. When you have that confidence. And that confidence is going to come from competence.

Yes. Yeah.

Right.

And then also kind of, again, like, practicing what we preach. I think, like, this isn't anything that needs to be said to the patient, but just they. They get that vibe as. As they get to know me. So hopefully they see me and they think, oh, she goes for daily walks. She works at her mental health, she active, she is strong. She also has struggles, like seeing us as a human being and not as. Just like, as the practitioner. So basically getting on an even playing field. If they see us being active and us practicing what we preach, why wouldn't they be invested as well? So I think that's also a big component of it as therapists, I guess something that. I think that, again, it's not like we try to do it, but I think that sometimes we need to make sure that we're getting on their level of equal respect and understanding.

I love that. I love that. Okay, so I definitely want to be mindful of your time, so I just want to check in. Have we hit the points that you wanted to really cover in the patient care?

I believe so, yeah. I guess the biggest one is just that, the connection. Understanding who you are as a therapist so you can direct the best care for them. Listening, being mindful of how we talk to them, lifting them up instead of tearing them down, and then working as a team and understanding and letting them direct care and being open to changing your treatment plan so that it suits them within means. So, yeah, if I summarize it.

Yeah, I love that. Okay, I love that. So, you know, what would you say to someone who was may, you know, maybe seasoned right now? I mean, like, a professional that maybe, like, needs to revisit the basics, or they're thinking, like, oh, my gosh, I know this already. Like, what are some of the things that they can do to check in to see if they're actually implementing some of these invisible components that we're talking about?

I think just simplifying. I think that. I mean, the more. The more experience you have, the more knowledge and the more that you feel you can give. And I think that that's amazing. But I think of it in terms of like a volleyball coach that I had. If they have all this knowledge, but if they. It almost. It's hard. Sometimes it seems harder because they maybe don't have the patience, I would say in terms of, like. Because they just. They know and they've seen it so often, and I guess it's easier said than done, but I would Say to really try to go back to simplifying it and meeting that patient at their level and getting to know the person because the more that we personalize, the easier it will be. But they have that, that would be harder. I'm trying to put myself in like let's say I've been practicing for 20 years. It would be hard because you see a lot more patterns and you know, kind of where that, where it just goes like you said, like, oh, this is the next thing. So I think just really trying to be in the moment, be in the moment understanding what their needs are at that time. Otherwise we can get ahead of ourselves. Even though you know the most efficient way to give them and you have all that knowledge. But if you don't, just if you're not in the moment, then you're not going to be. You're going to miss those little things and those little questions that that patient has and be able to give that better patient centered care. So I guess overall theme is simplify and then try to be in the moment and yeah, that'd be my advice. Do you have anything in mind that.

No. That was great. That was great. Love that. So I want to really be mindful of your time. Thank you so much for hanging out with us and pouring into us today. So for those of you who want to connect with you and reach and hang out with you, where's the best place I can send them?

Instagram is the best place. My Instagram is@reach.rehab. if you ever want to connect, obviously you can DM me if you want to collaborate. There's also a link under my bio that you can kind of check out. So.

Okay, great. And I'll make sure that I link all of that up. So thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. It was great. Just chatting and having a good discussion.

I love it.

All right, thank you.

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