The Psychology of Connecting with Clients with Alex McBrairty

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 151. Today I'm sitting down with Alex, and we're talking about the psychology of connecting with clients. Are you ready? Let's get started. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up, coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson. And if this is the first time you're pushing play, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I have a very special guest. It was such a good conversation. It was one of those times where you felt like you were just sitting on the couch and hanging out with a good friend over a good cup of coffee and just chillaxing and really deepening the connection, which is exactly what we are talking about today inside of this episode and specifically with Alex. So Alex is an online fitness coach with 18 Fitness based in Ann Arbor, Michigan. He was obese as a child and teenager, and he blends fitness and psychology to help his clients discover their own hidden potential. He shares very deeply about his experience from going through that journey. He has a bachelor degree in psychology from the University of Michigan, where he managed a research team in the study of motivation. He's written articles for fitness industry leaders like Tony Jenna Corps, the Personal Trainer Development center, and he can. He also contributes to publications like, like Muscle and Fitness, USA Today, Men's Fitness, and more. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. What's up, Alex? Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, Beverly.

I'm super pumped. For those of my listeners who have not had the pleasure of seeing your work, would you please share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve, and how you got there?

Absolutely. So my name is Alex McBrardy. I'm an online fitness coach based in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And my career did not start online as a fitness coach. My career started in person back when I was 23 years old, about eight years ago. Now. My entry into the fitness space is like many other fitness coaches. I like to think there are two different categories. There are people who have fallen in love with sports at an early age. Kind of always loved the physical performance side of things and wanted to continue that passion for sports and movement and strength and whatever into the field of fitness. And then there's people who did not have that enjoyment of those activities early on. So myself, I was kind of the overweight kid growing up. My senior year in high school, I lost over 80 pounds.

Wow.

I didn't exercise, just kind of grinding it out. And so that was obviously a very powerful experience for me. And then towards the end of my undergraduate, which I got my degree in psychology because I had no idea what I wanted to do. And so when I graduated, still had no idea what I wanted to do. And friends and family were kind of like, you know, you spend all your time in the gym, why don't you like actually get paid for it? Like try personal training, Give it, give it a shot, see what's what. And had nothing to lose. So I gave it a shot, fell in love with it almost immediately, did that in a commercial gym for about a year, and then left to start my own company, 18 Fitness, and kind of the rest from there grew to where we are now, which is primarily based online, kind of helping people all over the country, all over the world really transform their life so that they can live the way they've always wanted to. It's kind of our mission.

I love that it's a powerful mission. Yeah, yeah. So I can only assume and correct me if I'm wrong, but it stems from your part of it has to be about your journey and where you were. So I'd love for you to expand a little bit about that. Like what? First of all, how did you even just tell us a little bit about the journey of losing 80 pounds? Because I have so many questions about that.

You know, it's interesting. It was not my first attempt. I was 16, I guess 17 at the time, and I was overweight my entire life. And the point where I think I realized it was a problem, and I'm sure my parents did at the time too, was when I was about 13. So at the pediatrics office, when they're taking your height and your weight as you're growing up, they have those two charts on the same piece of paper. They have the weight on the bottom and the height on the top. And my weight at the time was so high that my weight was in the height chart of that report or whatever. And that for me, Even as a 13 year old, visually I could see like, wow, that doesn't seem like it should be all the way up there. So there were periods of trying to get on top of it. My parents tried to help me get a little bit healthier and we made a lot of changes to the way the food environment worked in our house at the time. But nothing ever really stick stuck. Excuse me. It was, you know, do it for a little while, you know, go to the gym regularly with my mom in the mornings before school, get a little more active, lose a little bit of weight, and then kind of fall back into some of those old routines. So it wasn't until I was about 17 years old that, you know, that switch kind of flipped for me. And I think it was the culmination of a few different factors. I was getting ready. You know, as I mentioned, it was my senior year in high school, I was getting ready to graduate. Kind of the start of my adult life was right there within grass. And I had no college plans. I was kind of a mediocre student, didn't really have a whole lot of confidence or self esteem, so didn't really try too much. So I had no plans. And it kind of dawned on me in a moment of maturity, if I don't change something, then this could likely be the rest of my life. And that terrified me, terrified me to my core. That and at the time too, I'd kind of gotten into my first romantic relationship. And so there was a little bit of that external driving motivator of I wanted to do it for someone else and kind of create an identity around a person that my significant other, my girlfriend at the time could be proud of and like show off to her friends was the story I told in my head. And so those things kind of drove me to, like I said, kind of really grind it out. I mean, my senior year in high school, I had a job at the time, so it was school, work or working out. I had no social life. Like that was the mission and ultimately led me to lose those £80 over about a 15 month period. So it was a pretty intensely driven 15 months.

You know what was, you mentioned it a little bit. Would you expand a little bit more on the actual environment that you were living in that brought you to the £80? No one ever just wakes up with £80 on their body randomly. You know, it's one of those, it's like it. My husband will say often, sometimes he'll wake up. And I have moments of this too. Not even with weight, just kind of in life of, wait a second, how did we get here? You know, so I'M curious, you know, what was the impact of your external environment and did this journey you go through impact your, you know, what was the ripple effect of the impact on your journey?

You know, it was, I think it was a couple of different factors. This was, you know, the late 90s, where things even then were a little bit different in how we thought about health and nutrition and food. And it was, for the most part, it was my mother by herself with three children just. And she was very busy with work. She was very career driven. So it was, you know, get us french fries on the way home, shut us up in the backseat. It was that kind of, you know, those sort of behaviors which, you know, you definitely can't fault anyone for. It was a lot of kind of desserts at night before bed, as the nighttime snack. It was, it was just a little bit of those simple things that compounded over time coupled with. I was never unlike my brothers, who were both very athletic growing up. I was never a fan of sports. Still to this day, I'm not a fan of sports, so I never participated in sports. So this was also the, you know, the, the big booming era of video game systems and kind of that sedentary hobbyism, if you will. And so it was lots of video games, lots of junk food, very little movement, and kind of a home environment that didn't know any better.

Oh, yeah, Internet was definitely not what it was or what it is now back then. It wasn't right for sure, you know. And listen, as a mom of two young girls, like you go through those periods of survival, right? So again, I asked to share, not to place blame, because it's not about blaming. It's just what I love about this story and what I think is important to note is that, you know, we underestimate the compounding effect. And I will say people, most people underestimate the compounding effect of some small changes both towards the goal and also in the other direction. No one ever just wakes up and says, oh, I'm to the wind. Right? It's a compounding effect.

Absolutely. It, it reminds me, you know, I have a. As a side note, since I was 16, pretty much since I started this journey, up until now, I've been creating personally for myself kind of a list of. Of values or life rules for myself that kind of keep me grounded in the path I want to go and the direction I'm traveling and who I want to be. And one of them is to not do anything more than two days in a row that I don't want to become a new habit for that very reason. Right. That compounding effect. So if I'm, you know, going to splurge a little bit and go out to eat with friends and celebrate something and I'm going to enjoy it, then I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it. But I'm not going to let it go two days, three days, four days, I'm going to kind of get back to the things that I want to be doing on a regular basis for all those reasons that you said that compounding effect that oftentimes goes unnoticed.

Yeah. And it's the invisible. It's always the invisible that moves the dial sometimes, you know, so. Okay, that's amazing. So now in your journey, now you're. Now you're a business owner, now you're a trainer. And I'm curious, you know, in terms.

Of the.

In terms of, you know, the science of training, like, how did you go from not even liking sports to all of a sudden being in the game of, I love science, I'm curious.

So, you know, it's. My coaching approach is very driven in the psychological side of things. Like I mentioned before, my background's in psychology. I got my undergraduate degree from the University of Michigan. And while I was there, I actually participated in, for a short time managed a research lab that studied motivation. And so that informs a lot of how I approach things with my clients, namely, kind of the mindset of how we think about ourselves and these things. And so I guess to answer your original question of how did I make the leap from inactive, sedentary, had no interest in this, to now coaching people to be in fitness. It reminds me, I had a client asked me recently what inspires me to continue to grow this business, to help people to do all of that. And for me, it's really about looking at my life now. And it is. I mean, if you would have asked me when I was 16 to predict where I am in life now, I would have laughed at your face if.

You were told, I'm only laughing because.

Me too.

There have been so many times that I wish I could reach out to my seventh grade PE teacher and be like, hey, you know what I did with my life, he would not believe.

And so, and so, you know, that younger version of me, and I remember, I remember distinctly periods of my kind of adolescence where I would sit alone at home and I would just wish that I could have these other people's lives because they were happy, because they were active, because they were confident, they had self Esteem. They had stuff going for them at a time when I felt like I didn't. And now, you know, what inspires me to keep going is. And what helped me make that leap is the realization and the recognition that I'm actively stepping into the role or the identity of the person that I always dreamt of being. Like, who I am now and who I continue to become is the person I always dreamed I wish I could have been back then. And that the power in recognizing how my life has shaped as a result of that journey and that transformation and how I think about myself and how I approach things and the challenges that I take on and all the different avenues and risks that I've taken. And it just reinforces what's at stake for the people that I help. And that drives me like no other.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I love this approach. Right. I think. And I love this approach for lots of reasons. It's also how we approach business in the same way. It's right, you know, making decisions from already being at 100k month, but not with the band aid. It's not like, let's throw whipped cream on garbage and then assume it tastes good. That's not what we're doing. It's more being the person, which can be hard to wrap your brain around when, A, you haven't heard it, and B, it's hard to wrap your brain. Brain around it because if you're anything like me, you'll have moments as a high achiever that's like, well, if I already knew how to do it, then I would do it, Beverly, you know? Yeah. So I'm curious, you know, as a coach and as someone who facilitates these similar types of conversations, how do you. How do you incentivize or create, buy in for your clients who are like, no, no, no, just give me the meal plan.

Yeah. So really, there's kind of two distinct pathways that we like to use, and the first has to do with mindset. So brief kind of introduction to that is, you know, what the studies have shown is there's really kind of two distinct mindsets that people hold about themselves in the world around them. Fixed mindset. Our traits, our skills, our abilities are fixed. We have natural talent. There's things we're just good at, there's things we're not good at. And those things are relatively unchanging. Like, we can't do too much about it. So it's better to stick to our strengths, ignore the weaknesses, double down. Then there's growth mindset. Growth mindset. Is a little bit different in that we will believe that we can improve our skills and our abilities through practice. So I may not be good at something right away, but if I put in the time and the effort to learn how to do it better, my skills can grow and I can get better. Right. And so there are some drastic differences in how we approach things there. If we think we are unchanging or we can't be changed and we fail at something, then we're more likely to quit, give up, and not try it again, because what's the point? We can't do anything about it. But if we start to develop a belief in this growth mindset, then those setbacks become the lessons that we apply to get better kind of slingshot us forward. So the first is most people who are kind of recruiting my help in to help change their life have fallen into that fixed mindset because of trying different diets, the yo yo cycle, all of these things that have continued in their minds to reinforce the idea that they're incapable of succeeding at this. So the first step for me is to help them start to develop a belief in that growth mindset for themselves so they can start to shift how they look at the challenges in front of them, the restaurants they need to navigate, the food environment at home that they might have more control of than they think they do. So that is a big part. And then the other is improving their self efficacy or their belief in their ability to be successful at the things that they attempt. So most people who join my program don't believe in themselves to be successful at all. Right? So initially, and it's really important that, and this is true for any coach who's helping people most of the time, when they reach out to some degree, at some level, they don't believe in themselves to be successful. And so if I can help them develop that belief in themselves, and usually it involves being the one that believes in them, New clients come in, they're like, okay, I don't believe in myself, but I can see that you believe in me, so I'm going to trust you that I can be successful at this. That's how it starts. My belief in them, then they work. We start to accrue small wins over time. The compounding effect, right? Small wins over time. Each of those wins starts to reinforce or show them, hey, I might actually have a better grip on this than a grip on this than I think I do. As they start to believe in themselves to be successful, and as they start to realize or develop that growth, mindset. If those two things can come together, the rest is history.

Sky's the limit. Yeah, sky's the limit. Especially because anytime when you have that, you know, to me, that's the difference between looking at a challenge and asking, what's the possibility? What's my lesson here versus I can't believe this always happens to me. And it's easy to get it to fall into that pattern. Even when you know better, it's easy to get. Fall into that pattern, you know, so half the time it's just removing roadblocks and resistance in the mind that's designed to keep you safe, you know, so it's. That's. That's. That's really the work. The rest of the stuff is like, here, let's sit down for an hour and we can figure it out. I'll tell you what to do. But really, it's, you know, how can you get out of your own way? Absolutely, yeah. I. As you're breaking down your prop, your process, do you find that the people that connect with you are ones that have similar stories to you, or do you find that they are all walks of life, all areas, all chronic dieters?

It is more the latter. So it's more the full spread of different personalities, different goal types, different struggles, different challenges. And I think the reason is my story is one that does resonate with a lot of people and is very powerful. But more important than that is my experience going through. It gives me a level of conviction when I'm talking to people that gets them to believe it as well. And I tell this to colleagues in the area if they ever ask questions about connecting with their clients or whatever, which is, I believe it more. Right. And in believing it more, I'm essentially selling hope for a better future. I'm giving them the hope that they can be successful and a better future. And that kind of crosses all the bridges that people struggle with.

Mm. So, you know, I think a lot of coaches, too, they'll get into their mind that if they're not the ideal client, like, if they serve someone that, you know, go through a process that they haven't gone through, then all of a sudden they can't help them. So it starts to either feel like that or it starts to feel like, oh, I, you know, maybe I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm curious, you know, how has. How have you moved through that, if it's come up from you?

I think it's really a product of experience. And the more clients you have experience working with and under your belt, you start to see a variety of different situations and challenges and obstacles. And over time, you just start to kind of develop, for lack of a better term, an operating system for how to bridge those gaps and address those challenges and help those people to where you start to just have more belief in yourself to overcome those challenges as you face them. You know, I remember as a newer coach, certainly there was the exact problem you're talking about where I had a very defined experience that I could speak to, which was people who had been overweight for a very long time, and it was a core part of their identity, and they wanted this big transformation. But anything outside of that, and it was a little shaky, like, okay, see what this is? Like, I don't know. And, you know, I think the reality is there's really no easy way around that. It's a lot of trial and error. It's a lot of learning. But I think if you have the genuine intention and the desire to truly help people, then, just as I did, you kind of find your way through until you develop the experience to do better, to know better, and to address those things.

Good. It's good. It's true. So I'm also curious for you. Would you mind sharing with us who or what has been one of the biggest challenges inside of your business and in serving, what has been some of the biggest challenges you've had to face, and how did you overcome them?

It was. Well, there's probably a lot of.

Yeah, give us the one that came to your mind when I asked, you.

Know, what I think it is? I think probably the one that came to mind first was trying to figure out exactly how I wanted to best help people. And what I mean by that is, when I started my business, I was 23 years old. I was 23 years old. I had obviously no business experience. I had hardly any life experience, and I had very little coaching experience. I had only been a coach a year when I went out on my own and started this company. So I went through a couple of iterations of the direction that I wanted to go to figure out what I wanted from this company, how I best wanted to serve the people that I help. And so when I first started, it was the typical, okay, I'm going to grind it out until I'm able to open my own physical location. So to back up a little bit, when I left the commercial gym, I had found another, smaller studio that I could rent space out of hourly. So that's kind of how I Started my business. So I was in another trainer's gym training my clients privately. And so the first, what felt the most natural goal for me was let's build this clientele, let's build this business until I can get my own location, and then let's move into that space and continue to just do more better of what we're doing. And then so that was the sole focus. But over time, as I got to see the, the behind the scenes of running that gym, as I was there all the time, I realized that's a lot of headache that I don't know if I want running a physical brick and mortar location.

Oh yeah, you're an operations manager.

Yeah, exactly. And so there was a little bit of hesitation there of I don't actually know if I want that anymore. Which led to questions of, well, does that mean I don't want to coach anymore? If I don't want the space, like, what does that mean for me? So there was a period of a little kind of just coasting by, of just trying to make sure my bills were paid, but had no real direction at all. And then kind of phase two of this journey was starting to think, okay, I know I want to keep coaching, but I don't want a brick and mortar space. So how do I expand, how do I grow? How do I make this more comfortable living situation for me in terms of finances, in terms of feeling like I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish? And in Ann Arbor, there's a growing number of these kind of luxury high rise students or otherwise young professional living apartment buildings. And in so doing, they're also putting very nice fitness facilities within these buildings. And so it dawned on me that if I approach them and I kind of offer to be their on site fitness provider, I can now gain access to all of these different facilities without having my own location. And I could just run clients, you know, have a lead generation through their residence and grow that way. And so I did that for a while. I approached at a, probably the height of this. I was in two or two or three in town, had a few instructors teaching classes for me. And that then became the dream, let's just expand into all these buildings, let's be the fitness provider for all these apartments and can essentially grow the business without actually having my own equipment to manage or maintain or rent to pay or anything like that. And that worked for a little while until a unique and sobering reality hit me, which was the nature of student housing is the turnover, like clockwork, happens every year. Every year, all of the residents because their students move back home, Some of them return, some of them don't, some of them live in different places. The whole demographic of the student population changes. So some years we'd have huge demand. We have a lot of people in our classes, a lot of people training. End of the semester, people move home, it dies down, semester picks back up, people move back in. Now there's less demand. For whatever reason, just the demographic of those particular residents is not one that's conducive to those classes. So it was very kind of volatile and very. It wasn't secure in our ability to keep it continuous. And so that was a very quick kind of kick to the gut of don't know if this is it. At the same time trying to figure out how I could use my unique talents with my background in psychology, with my ability to connect with people, with my ability to recognize behavioral patterns that they're expressing but may not recognize themselves, to help them figure out how best to approach changing their lifestyle. And that's when I started to toy with this was maybe in 2016 toy with the online space. And so 2017 is when I took my first online client was trying different things, iterations failed many a times trying to figure it all out. 2019 is when I had developed the program to the point where I was confident enough in it that became the only thing that I marketed anymore. I stopped marketing in person coaching, although I still do it and still did it then. And then 2020 with the pandemic was really when the online side of things, right. And what I really attribute to that, other than all the gyms closing because all the gyms closed online, was now really the only option that anyone had for coaching. And so every coach went online when the pandemic hit. And for first time online coaches, it became the start of them figuring out the bugs in their program and figuring out how to tweak it and how to get a program that actually worked in the online space. Whereas I had already made those mistakes two, three years prior to. So when the pandemic hit, my program was ready. I was confident in it. It already showed great results and it had a good flow of people. So then when it became now the only option for people, instead of having to educate on why online coaching could be better than in person for how we approach things, it now became a no brainer because it was the only option and that's kind of led to where we are now.

That's amazing. I love it. So what are some are you. You Said you're still training in person.

Very minimally. Just people that have been with me forever who weren't interested in doing the online coaching. And we still, I still work with them, but very minimally.

What are some of the biggest differences and challenges you've had to overcome moving from the in person space into the online?

For me, it was, I think early on I fell into the trap that a lot of online coaches fall into, which is the desire to get into online coaching to work less. There's that thing of like, oh, it sounds like great passive income. A couple of automated programs, get some software going on, automate a couple of emails, put a post on social media, people come flowing in to buy my program. I send it out to everybody and I can just sit on a beach somewhere and drink my ties or pina coladas or whatever.

The four hour work week.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And so with that in mind, you lose the connection aspect. You lose the ability to actually see the person and see what the struggles the person is going through and help them address those things. And so that was the early challenges that I faced with my program and how I structured it and how I offered it and what I charged for it. And so in the beginning it was, you know, the base package was four weeks workout program with weekly check ins or whatever, kind of what might be standard now in a lot of cases. And then there were all these additional add ons. People could add, they could add nutrition coaching, they could add weekly coaching calls, they could add kind of a la carte, all these different things based on what they wanted. And then I had a premium option which just included everything. And over time some people go into premium. A lot of people just doing the base package, whatever. I'm like, okay, this seems like it's working, we're getting people. And then it dawned on me that I had a lot of turnover in the people that were just getting kind of the minimal option. They were spending the least amount of money, which was also the most hands off. And there was a lot of turnover. The people who were getting everything that I had to offer, my full attention, everything, they were getting better results, they were staying longer, they were succeeding more. And I began to realize, okay, if you give people the option, it makes sure they may not know what they need help with. They may not know that the nutrition coaching is really going to help them or the coaching calls are really going to help them. Maybe just see it as an extra price add on. And so they buy the cheapest option. They feel like all they need is the right workouts, when in reality that's rarely the case. I tell people the workouts that I give people are the least important thing that I do for them. Right. It's everything else. And it really hit home when I had a client who had won some challenge I was running at the time. And so her prize was the premium online coaching at the time for three months or whatever the time period was. And at the end of that, I remember her expressing to me, she said it was a great experience, she loved it, it was way better than she thought it was going to be. And the thing that surprised her the most was how helpful the nutrition coaching was. Even when she originally started, she didn't think she would utilize it that much because she didn't think she needed it. That was the light bulb moment that went off in my head of if I would have given her the choice, she would have opted out of that because she didn't think she needed it. And yet when she had it, it was the most helpful thing for her, for her to see success. And so that was the turning point where I realized, okay, I'm not in this to work less. I'm in this to have bigger impact and to provide more value in the online space than I think I can provide and a lot of coaches can provide in, in person spaces. So I readjusted my entire programming, which was, I offered one thing and it was this online transformation program that included everything I had to offer you. And it was now a question of, okay, if you decide to not use some of it, like if you don't ever schedule the calls, I'm going to get on you a little bit, but I'm not going to press you too hard if you really don't want them and you're doing well and you're happy. But I will never withhold what I feel like I can give you because I want you to upsell.

Well, what you are talking about is twofold. And I think that most coaches don't recognize or realize that it is this important when it comes to growing the business, whether it is in person or, or online. It's number one is that most coaches don't realize that the problem that they're solving and, and what I mean by that is that your clients have, have a problem that they don't realize they had, otherwise they would fix it. You know, and so it's, it's very interesting to me that when we're having conversations around, you know, what problem do you solve? People struggle to answer it then the second thing is the important of the. The importance of communicating the value of the transformation and how it's not just about the workouts. It's about how you are going to transform essentially from the inside out and that it's going to literally transcend into other areas of your life. Of your life. And when you can communicate that, then people will be begging to work with you. And I just don't think people realize how important that is.

Absolutely. And to your point, I agree. I think one of the biggest mistakes that fitness coaches make, and I certainly made it early on, is believing that the fitness side of it is the end and not just a means to the end. I hear a lot of coaches, they kind of start and stop at nutrition, at reps, at sets, at the best exercises, and it doesn't go into account of any of the impact that's actually going to have on this person's life. And like you said, they're not addressing the problems that people actually need solved, which is they need to like their life again. They need to wake up on Monday morning and not dread every second of it. They need to be able to look in the mirror, not hate what they're looking, what's looking back at them. Yes, Right.

But you can't write a post that's like, how to not hate yourself that. Because they don't realize that it pertains to them until they realize it pertains to them.

Absolutely.

So it's that idea of meeting them where they're at, shifting their perspective, and then getting them excited for what's possible. Because it's not fun to be like, hey, we're going to Mount Everest if it feels like you can't even get to the first summit.

Absolutely. And it's actually something I have to be very careful of because as you might imagine, I get very excited when I talk about this people, because I see the potential that they have to succeed and to truly get to that other side where they're really living a life that they don't think that they can gain access to. And so you're right. Being able to temper it enough where it doesn't suddenly seem like I'm just blowing smoke up their butt about what is possible and tempering it to where there's enough conviction and excitement that they start to believe that it's possible, even a little bit. Just a little bit. But they can start to see the path there.

Yeah, for sure. I also think that, you know, one of the things that I know for me, I've that's been a struggle, or not a struggle, but a challenge, I'll say, is that sometimes in the online space, it can feel like we're connected through zoom, but at the same time not feel connected. And it's very easy to fall into the trap of, oh yeah, we're connected, we're connected, and then realize when you see them in person, I'm coming off of a live event and just, you know, that the importance of cultivating true connection is by far undervalued and underrated.

Yeah.

Online.

Yeah. And I think there's extra challenges in the online world for that. For example, when I'm texting clients or if I'm on Zoom, I have to be very even more particular with the words that I choose or an example of text message. The words, but also the punctuation that I use for specific messages. Because as we've all experienced, it's easy to misread the intentions of a text message based on how it's written, based on our mood of the day. If I'm already in a pretty bad mood or an anxious mood or stressful mood and I read a text message that wasn't meant to be aggressive, I might read it as being aggressive because that's the mood state that I'm in and I'm already primed for that. So I and online coaches too, as they think about how they communicate in the online space in a manner that's really powerful and impactful and not just kind of superficial, these are extra considerations that you can kind of get away with in person because they can see your body language, they can see your tone, they can see those non verbal things that might allow you to get over the hump of the misuse of a word or how it looks on paper. And so that level of detail and how you communicate is also something I think a lot of people overlook.

Right. And especially in the online space, especially if you're working from home, Right. When you are living in the same place that you are working, that you are eating, that you are lifing. I mean, boundaries are more important than ever. And not just for, you know, your own mental sanity, but also in the amount of focus you are putting into ones, into the task that you're deciding to do. I find for me, at least, absolutely.

That'S still something I'm working on, admittedly.

Yeah, I mean, sure. I think it's one of those life things that we're all going to be working on. Right. It's you. I laughed when you were like, oh, People go to the online space to work for our work weeks. And I was like, really? Because I'm pretty sure I work more now. I had. Well, not anymore. But when I first started, I worked more so than I ever had in my life when I was at work.

Yeah.

Not anymore. Because I've put hard boundaries. I put hard boundaries.

That's good. But it is. It's easy to do in the beginning. Absolutely.

Oh, for sure. Especially to where, if you're anything like me, I'm doing what I love. So if I have downtime, then I'm gonna fill it with doing what I love.

Yeah.

But it's important, I think, to have multiple loves, not just one.

You know, it's fun. I remember when I first started my business, I had the mental story that I had written in my head was, if I'm not using every bit of spare time to grow this business, then I don't care enough. That was. However extreme that may be now. That was the mentality that I had written for myself. And so that kind of led to the development of habits that create challenges for those boundaries, even still today, as you mentioned. Right. Kind of recognizing how I've been with the compound effect. Right. How I've been driven to think about work in a certain way and how I approach it to a point where now those boundaries become more of a hurdle to try to put into place.

Yeah. There's something, though, that you mentioned unconsciously or consciously, but it's the idea of putting, you know, when it comes to boundary setting, though, you talked about personal policies. Right. Where you have these lines in the sand, where it's. No, you know, like, I will. If I had. If I do this two more times, I'll only do it two times unless I want it to. To be a habit. So that is, I think, another one of those really important things as an online coach that you set with your clients, that you set for yourself, that you know where these lines are. Because as human beings, we're just designed to go to the edge people want. People are going to find those boundaries, and they don't mean to do it to hurt. They just need to know where they are. So if you don't have them in place, then the cost is more significant than you might realize.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Although I wonder, too. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Beverly, because in my experience, too, what I found with my clients. So for a little bit of context, as part of my online program, I actually talk to each one of my clients every single day in some Capacity how I insert myself to make sure that we're on top of things, we're not slipping, we're doing everything we need to do. And that looks pretty simply most days. Nevertheless, what I found as most people who online coaches getting into space or maybe experienced online coaches are concerned about is opening the door to that level of communication and the ability to set those boundaries. And what I people reaching out at all hours, not respecting, as you mentioned, seeing where the edge is of what they can pull out of you. And I think one thing that I've experienced is if the clients that I'm working with truly feel like not only are they getting the value that they thought they would get, but if they're getting even more value than they expected, it never becomes problematic when it comes to setting boundaries. Absolutely.

Absolutely right. 1,000%. And I'm always an over deliverer, Right. I always want to over deliver. And I think from my perspective, it really comes down to two things when it comes to over delivering. And that's for you as a coach. Right. And I feel like we can have this conversation because this is in your world, right. In terms of what I find a lot of coaches when we're having these types of conversation, it comes down to the, it comes down to the coach and their level of believability in themselves.

So.

So, and what I mean by that is, are they crossing these boundary lines because they want to people please, because they think that if they don't over deliver, if they don't tell the client what peanut butter to get within the second, that the client needs it, that the client's going to leave. That's a different energetic energy than stepping in one that is I am personal power. And from my personal power I will answer within 24 to 48 hours. But likely, I really want you to come to the decision yourself because you are an adult. You don't need accountability, you need support. And I am here to support you. It's two different energetic approaches that come from the coach. And as someone who has been in both sides, especially when you're starting, right, and you're looking and you need a little bit help, you need a little bit of help, you need a little bit of those wins. Right. Nobody is immune to the human experience, right. At whatever level you are at coaching. So I just think it comes down to going all in on you and making the decision. First of, no, I'm convicted and knowing that I can do this, that I can set a hard boundary and still over deliver.

Absolutely.

That's you Know, I still, and, and, and still over deliver and still provide connection because ultimately it just comes down to effective communication. I don't know if you've read this book, but I read it recently. It's the big leap. And the author writes, I can't remember his name but off the top of my head, but he says every, every new level of growth is essentially behind a 10 minute uncomfortable con conversation. You know, so it's just really make for me, you know, when I look at my own life and my own growth, I can see that 110 times of ultimately and sometimes that hard conversations with yourself.

Absolutely. I was going to ask how many of those conversations are with ourselves.

Yeah, exactly. And it requires a level of my, my coach calls it living on the razor's edge where you give a damn about everything and nothing at the same time because it, it requires you to care so much, but not enough to be effective and affected and go down that shame spiral of I'm awful. But you have to be able to look at your stuff clinically, in my opinion and all stuff, your marketing, your service, your, you know, your, how you're showing up. We have to be able to look at it from a 30,000 foot view and clinically look at the areas that we can increase performance without it being the shame spiral. Because the truth is, business is personal. I hate, you know, when people say business is impersonal. Isn't personal. Isn't personal. I can fall, for me, I can fall into a transactional type of mindset very easily. So for me, I have to remember that business is personal because there are souls and human beings behind those numbers that you're chasing.

Absolutely. So it sounds like that razor's edge is really kind of the art of balancing the emotion of it all. Enough emotion to make impact, not enough to send yourself in a downward spiral. So how does somebody work on balancing that?

Yeah, you know, I think that it comes down to awareness. Right. It's, I think that's step one is just being aware of your tendencies. So, so it's funny, I heard this quote recently that you know when you hear like next level or new. New. Next level, new devil. It's, it's the same devil with the dress on. Okay. Your neural. It's the same, same devil. You just have a different outfit on. The challenge is showing itself in a different way. Those neural pathways in your brain don't go away. This is true for your clients as well. Right. And so, so honestly, it's just. No, for me it was really just two Big things is acknowledging that this is a pattern of mine. Being able to know that this is a pattern and then also to get out of the chase. I think so many people, and our clients as well, right? People who are chasing goals and high performers, high achievers, we always think that something's going to happen when we get to. It's that if, then continuum. And so for me, a very big, powerful shift for me, which is what helped me step back into my personal power of setting boundaries, was this idea of, of knowing that everything that I want is already here and on the inside of me now. Now that I'm not, I'm not chasing anything, nothing I want is on the outside of me. It's ultimately coming down to me, to my decisions, and then waiting for the outcome to catch up to the decision being already made.

Ultimately makes sense for me.

And it's what I help my clients do too. Right. Especially when we get to that level of like, oh my gosh, you know, And I'm curious for you too, like your clients, when they're on a long journey, because that's the thing, no one ever arrives. Those peak moments are just moments, especially for high achievers. I can't tell you how many times, like, if I could go back and talk to my 1k a month self, I would say that the same is going to happen at 10k, a 20k, a 30k is just going to look a little bit different. New devil. Same devil, new dress.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And what that reminds me of is really kind of the work that I do with that self efficacy. Right. Developing the belief in the person to understand that they probably already have the tools to succeed. They don't need me to tell them what the best diet is or the best exercise program. They know they need to eat a little better and maybe a little less and work out a little bit more. They just need to get out of their own way about it and understand what those patterns are that are forcing them to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

Yes. And also external environment, I think that, you know, I know that for clients, this is why. Have you ever heard of the logical level?

Can't say that I have.

So this is why, you know, we talk about the psychology of your client, both in the struggle and where they are, is that you can access this identity shift in lots of different ways. Right on I draw. You see the logical level in terms of a pyramid, but I really envision it as a circle. It's, you know, if you look at Marie Kondo, she accesses an identity shift by cleaning out your external environment. Because your external environment is a reflection of how you feel and what you think on the inside.

Right?

So some people can shift from, you know, just identifying what their trigger and buffer foods are from identifying from what their trigger and buffer thoughts are on belief, on business, on Instagram, dropping on their followers or whatever it is. Right? You can. We're talking about human being experiences and just the goals are different and what the challenges are different, but experience is the same. It's amazing. So, okay, I want to be very mindful of your time, so I'm going to ask you this last question. If you and it is perfect because it is right in this vein. So if you could go back and tell your beginner self one tip or a new coach just who is getting started, one tip that you wish you knew earlier, what would it be?

You know, it is funny because I think in a lot of ways you have already said it earlier on in this conversation and it is to figure out what you are actually solving in people or for people or with people. Figure out what the actual problem is instead of assuming what the problem is.

So good, so good, so good. It seems so simple, but people struggle with it. Alex, thank you so much for hanging out with me. Where should I send people who want to get to know more about you?

Absolutely. Well, they can find me on Instagram with my lovely reels that you expressed enjoying lately.

Yes, doing great.

And that's at 18 fit underscore. And then I also have a newsletter that deals a lot with it kind of goes beyond just fitness and nutrition. It goes into the mindset of how we think about things. It's kind of a little bit more of a personal project of challenging people to think differently about themselves and about the world and about their abilities and what they might be chasing. And that is that substack18 fit substack. People can subscribe there for free.

Love it. Okay, Alex, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. Beverly, it was a pleasure.

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