The Simple, Straight-Forward Path to Success with Miguel Aragoncillo

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 138. Today I'm sitting down with coach Miguel Erragoncello to talk about the simple, straightforward path to success. Are you ready? Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up, coach? Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and I've got a super awesome episode in store for you today. So if this is your first time hanging out with me, thank you so much for pushing play. Let's go ahead and dive in today. I'm super pumped to bring to you Miguel Aragoncillo, who is a strength coach and licensed massage therapist, as well as the founder of the Performance Cipher, a private performance athletic company he's based in Massachusetts, previously worked at Krusty sports performance from 2014 to 2018, followed by another private performance and physical therapy training facility from 2018 to 2020. In both regions, he performed performance and movement assessments for athletes of all ages, ranging from youth through adult professionals. When working with athletes and clients of all skill levels, he prioritizes ensuring that quality movement is pursued along with optimal exercise selection for each individual. Miguel holds a certified strength and conditioning specialist certification through the National Strength and Conditioning association and Health Fitness Specialist certificate certification through the American College of Sports Medicine. He received his bachelor's in kinesiology with a concentration in exercise science from Temple University in Philadelphia. And today on this episode, he shares with us his journey from breakdancing all the way to building his own business. And he shares with us the lessons, some of the important skills, skills that he acquired along the way, and gives you some tools to leverage your own strength and conditioning business practice. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. What's up, Miguel? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you?

Thank you. I'm doing pretty well. Do pretty well. Pretty cold, but good otherwise.

It is cold. We're both on. We were just talking before I hit record. We're both in the East Coast. It's freez. So, Miguel, for those of you who have not, or those of us rather, who have not had the pleasure of your work. I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

Yes. So my name is Miguel Aragoncillo. I've been in the industry for just about 10, 11 years, which is crazy to say out loud, isn't it? A little crazy. And just because it happened so fast, people I serve is. Is everybody right? I work with a lot of people, a lot of individuals, ranging population wise, at least, you know, working with youth athletes. I work with youth athletes in one setting. The youngest I've worked with is like 10 to like 19, all the way to professional athletes as well. So, you know, 20, 22, three, all the. All the way up to 30s of obviously the veteran athletes, more or less. And. And then that's like where my mind usually travels with who I want to work with for a majority of my time. But, you know, in terms of paying the bills and paying. Putting the lights on, you got to work with everybody. So I work with a handful of individuals, general population, as we like to call it, or just people who just want to, you know, live life and move well and not be in pain. So those are the individual I work with. I have two hats that I wear. Massage therapist, spaniel therapist, and coach, slash trainer, Strength coach, slash trainer. So I do a little bit of both. If anything, I'd say I'm about 70, 70, 30, 60, 40. Manual therapy and training now. So it used to be like the other way around, where it was more, you know, 80, 20, strength coach and then manual therapy. But then certain things change and certain individuals reach out more, and then other people keep on hearing about me. So I keep on reaching out to other individuals and they reach out to me and. And then sure enough, it kind of flips on its own, which is just an organic way that it happens.

So how'd you get into the industry? What brought you to. What brought you to manual therapy and strength training?

So manual therapy was like the last part that kind of happened. The thing that kind of brought me into the industry was, you know, I had a. Going all the way back to high school and college. I didn't do well in school sports. I have the kind of the opposite story that a lot of current trainers and coaches have. They typically individuals. I can just lay it out for you right now. They typically play some for some sort of high school sport, trying to play in college, or they do play in college, or they even make it pro in some capacity in baseball, typically it's you know, minor leagues or even higher, for sure, that happens. And then due to, you know, not getting called back, et cetera, they go into coaching. That's typically the route that a lot of individuals go. For me, it was the opposite. I didn't do well in sports. I did pretty bad. I didn't have good coordination growing up. I didn't like running, so I didn't do well in soccer. I've been pretty short my whole life, so basketball was out of the equation. It's just like, all the things that typically basketball, football, soccer, baseball. I got hit in the mouth when I played baseball when I was 12. So I was like, all right, I'm done. It wasn't very fun. Usually people kind of bounce back.

That's like, not a content sport, contact sport. I'm surprised.

Oh, I was. Yeah. I was fielding it hit a bump in the. In the. The dirt and then hit me in the mouth. And I also had braces on. So that was, like, pretty traumatizing. So that was not fun. I was, like, 12. I was like, okay, I'm done. And then after that, you know, I said to myself, I still have to keep up with my friends. All my other friends are like, pretty good soccer, pretty good at this, pretty good at that. But I was, like, not making teams. I was getting cut. So I was like, what else can I do? So in this kind of looking back and telling this story so many times on different podcasts, I find out that I'm still pretty stubborn. I'm pretty stubborn of an individual. So I literally teach myself how to break dance. I look up videos online before YouTube was even a thing, really. It's like YouTube was just starting. You had to, like, wait. You had to click the video to download it and then watch the video of people dancing. So it took, like, an hour and a half for something to download. So that was aging me, if anything. And I had to figure out how to dance is where it was. Because at its essence, formal sports, you have a coach telling you what to do, telling you if you made the team, certain rules and practices. With dance, especially on my own, I can go whenever. I can practice in my garage. I can not have anybody yell at me. I can just be my own kind of control there. I can control what I can do for myself. So that kind of led the. You know, laid the foundation for what I begun to do from high school all the way to college. I started. I organized and formalized a dance. I guess we can call it a dance crew or dance team. At At Temple University, it's still going today. There wasn't one before because everybody was getting kicked out of hallways because if you didn't have a permit for a certain location, like a hall or classroom, you would get kicked out. That. That was happening way too much. So I said, all right, let's. Let's create something formal so people after me can just still have some type of formality when they go about and, you know, train and. And dance, et cetera. Because one of the biggest things is finding a space to dance. Finding just an open space without hitting anything, without bothering anyone. So that's what I wanted to do for my college then. Now it begins. I was like, okay, I'm done college. I gotta pay the bills. My friends in dance, they're getting really good. I'm getting kind of good. But in order to advance, I had to practice more and more sort of dangerous moves. Head spins, neck hurts, pulled groins, stuff like shoulders. It's like, really just quite. If you ever seen any dance videos.

Online, you understand break dancing is so intense. Like, the physical demand on your body is unreal. And what is so surprising to me. So I have a musical theater background, so I'm familiar with the performing lifestyle. And what is. So what is so interesting to me is that these performers are athletic people, but they are not treated like they are athletes. But if you get into a professional, even not even if it's, you know, community theater or community breakdancing world, it's the demand on the body is still the same, and yet nobody really treats it that way. So this is fascinating. I had no idea this was your background. Okay, so keep going. So now you're like, okay, I can't do this.

I kept on getting hurt, but I still wanted to dance, right? So that was like, I was like, 21, fresh out of college, but my friends who were dancing still, and whether or not they graduated college or they moved on to other realms of their life, these individuals, they're like the 1% of the 1%. They'd, like, made it in the context of, like, competitions, or they even made it on TV when, like, America's best dance crew was still a thing. Yeah, it's probably still a thing, but I don't know if it is as prevalent, you know, all those other sorts of dance shows. Those are the 1% of the 1%. Like, people aspire to be that. Because then you get to go on, like, Las Vegas and you get to perform with artists and all that stuff. How many people get to do that? You know like 10 people out of the world. So with that being said, like, that's not very realistic, despite me already not being realistic with where my journey is already leading me. So I said to myself, let me just start training people, because I just like the physical demands, number one. And number two, I just didn't want to do a office desk job. That was just like a big thing. I just didn't want that. I just knew I didn't want to do that. So that's the entry point for my fitness journey, if you will. I often think about that in that context, like, what is somebody's entry point, whether it's as a job or getting into fitness. That's kind of like a big, kind of like stepping point for me or platform. So that's basically how I started. But where it gets where I'm started, where I started to, where I'm going now or where I am now, that's kind of a big, big gap again. So the really big gap there. I do a lot of reading online. I'm sure you're familiar with at least some of These names like bodybuilding.com and T Nation and all these kind of like, not Musclehead, but this just like a lot of catering towards the lifting kind of individual, right? They were like, at the time it was quote unquote, like the golden era where a lot of people were writing really smart stuff, but also catering towards like powerlifting and just lifting in general. I'm like, wow, this is unlike anything I've ever had in class or school. So I read a couple articles, more than a couple articles. I read a handful of articles. So this, this goes to like, the resource, the resourcefulness that I've had in the context of searching, you know, from like when I was 12, looking up breakdancing clips online. So I just applied that same thought process. Like, let me just search far and wide for strength conditioning information. Like, what is this industry? What is different than just personal training? It's. It's very adjacent, but it's different nonetheless. So I started reading this individual's name, his. His articles. His name is Eric Cressy. And I was like, okay, he's about five, six hours north of me. Everybody else is like in California, like, looking good out in the sun all the time. But okay, I didn't have that much money. Like, I was fresh out of college. I had loans and such. And I'm like, let me figure out how to go. Go to an individual that's like a source or the source in my general location. So I applied for an internship, got in eventually, was actually rejected the first time. My story's filled with a lot of rejections and failures. And then after that I got in, did the best I could, the same. The mentality that I had during my internship was essentially this is like your one chance to make an impression on somebody who is somebody. Because right now I'm generally not a nobody, but I'm unknown at the moment. I'm very young. I just said yes to everything. That was a general thought process. Somebody asked me, I just said yes. Hey, you want to wake up at 5:30am and do a bootcamp class for all the clients? Sure. Yeah. And just kind of jumping at different opportunities. Yeah. Because boot camp was not the crowd that the strength conditioning community generally caters to. It's more for general population. Right. So you kind of find out where certain individuals can kind of like how they try different things. I saw a lot of cool stuff at Cresty Sports Performance. I saw how they tried new, new things, trying boot camps for individuals trying different offerings, different service. It's just a lot of experimentation. Something you don't see too often because once an individual finds their niche, they don't typically try to stray away from it.

Well, I always say complacency is where dreams go to die. I mean, you know you're never going to get to that next level unless you get uncomfortable.

And that was like the whole point of me being there. Like I didn't know anybody. When I first moved to Massachusetts, I knew zero people. Just had to like make new friends and then figure out what I'm going to do afterwards. So fast forward to the end of that internship and you know, I hope I made a good impression. But I didn't get offered anything. Nothing was guaranteed to begin with. So I moved back home and I started juggling like four part time jobs, you know, writing articles, doing stuff online with some people, like one or two at the time. Personal training, in person. It's just a lot of juggling. Right. I'm sure that's not too unfamiliar with many, many of us nowadays after all the 20, 20 year. So I get hired eventually about a.

Year back at Cressy's.

Back at Cressy, Yeah. They gave me a call in between when I was working and I was like, they never call me. I was literally working. I was like working with somebody over there and I was like looking at my phone, I said, they never call me. Let me see if I can answer it on speaker. While I'm working with These individuals. So I answered and they said, okay, do you want a job? And I'm like, yes. I said it like, like once because I was juggling four part time jobs. So it was a pretty easy kind of ask. And I was still relatively young, I still am obviously, but younger for sure. So long story short, I worked there for four and a half years. It was awesome. Did a lot of awesome things, met a lot of awesome people and still meeting people, trying to make as much of an impact on the people I've worked with, the interns I've worked with, and I don't want to say they're under me, but the individuals I work with for sure then there are a lot of individuals are all over the place now. Sure. You can just find like the, the family tree of CSP in every corner of the world. And it's pretty awesome when you can kind of like call somebody in Australia and then call somebody in a pro sport team and then call somebody and you know, back home in New Jersey and say, hey, do you want to hang out or do you want to chat for a minute? It's pretty, pretty, you know, I feel pretty grateful that I can do that. So after I leave, I decide to do a manual therapy schooling. And then with that being said, I just keep on. One of the big facets of CSP is learning and education, you know, trying to learn and push the boundaries of where the industry is going. And a lot of individuals come to CSP with information or as staff. We would go out to other courses and then bring it back. So it's one of the other. It's kind of like a giving tree, more or less. Right. So education and the sciences, like you mentioned before, they're pretty, they're pretty important just to, you know, differentiate yourself, number one, and also to provide better services for the individuals I work with. So I know I just talked for.

A little bit, but no, I love it, I love it, I love it. So now tell us, you know, so now you left csp, so what are you doing now?

Yeah, so I'm in the Boston area still. I never understood when CSP always says we live, we're in the greater Boston area. They're 45 minutes outside of Boston. That's not really outside of. That's like if you're in New York City and it's like, yeah, we're outside of New York City, you're like in Ithaca.

It's like, oh, well, I'm, that's like me, I'm in Croton. Yeah, I'M in Westchester. I'm 45 minutes still. 45 minutes?

Yeah. That's, that's nothing, right? Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I'm like 15 minutes away. I have clients in the city after this. So I, I'm in the city currently working in a few places because I did another jump in 2020. I left another facility that I was at because for whatever it's worth, it's in my head. I always thought that I could do something on my own, but I've always been attached, not in a bad way, but attached to another facility or sports performance place. So I said my, said to myself, let me see what I can do on my own. Especially with the 2020 pandemic and all that not fun stuff that happened there.

I think that's a really important distinction that I think a lot of people miss is that they forget that, you know, when you are starting, you know, when you're a trainer and taking your own clients or strength and conditioning coach, you're building a business.

Oh, yeah.

You've now become a business owner. And not everyone wants to be a business owner. And there's 100. There's so much value in working with people who do want to be business owners.

Yeah. You know, I, I, if I could have a person handle all the business and I'll do all this stuff, other stuff on my own, I would love that. I need to have systems. I need to have, you know, all the things that you probably do and talk about systems for. Yeah, 100. I, I completely. The thing that I like to do is I like to find somebody that knows something that I don't know anything about and just listen to them for nutrition. I have no interest in learning more about nutrition. I just want to listen to somebody tell me what to do when I eat. Because I could eat anything. I don't really care. I'm blessed like that. Long story short, so that's what that is. But when it comes to profit and systems and business, I'd like to listen to somebody else as well. So that's where I'm at with that. No, A hundred percent.

Yeah. I love that. I love that. Okay, so what's the dream? What do you want to, what are you building? What's your end goal?

I was still, still building there. There's no, like, you know, when I was 12, I always wanted to own a business in the strength. Like that wasn't even a thing. So there was never really a dream. The dream changes every, like three months for me. So I love that, you know, it's it's always a process of discovery. I'm the first in my family to own a business, you know, not, not the first like to graduate college or anything wild like that. But owning a business is relatively like paying rents, paying things on time. And not living on the streets, especially in the cold, is really tough, especially with everything going on. So I'm glad I have some sort of distinction with respect to the things that I do. I'm glad that I have some ability to kind of communicate the things that I want to communicate to the clients that I work with, whether or not they're general pop or high level athletes. Because that's a big thing too, expressing the stuff that's in here to you know, just like, Just like what?

It's to the masses.

Yeah, exactly. So that's, that's a big thing, communicating and expressing and you know, sometimes you gotta go a little bit higher than where the individual wants and then bring it down to something like low level and very straightforward. So the dream for me at the end of the day, you know, is to work with, you know, high level athletes or even just regular athletes, just everyday, you know, high school, college athletes and try to get them better, you know, 1% better every day. It's kind of a thought in my head. There's this like, what is that a law? Power, power numbers. I forget what the exact phrase was but like if you get 1% better every day, you're X amount better at the end of the year versus not getting anything. And you know that thoughts in my head every day. So the dream in my head right now is to stay, keep paying rent, don't miss anything, payment wise. Also try to, you know, make some sort of profit towards the end of this year. That's probably the biggest piece in my head because last year was like the first real year that I was in business. I don't know if that I mentioned that part. Like I was like really, really in business last year in 2021.

2021, correct.

Because I did late 2020. So I don't really count like the last two months of like 2020. Like I was, I was emailing. So this is, this is where I'm coming from in terms of like I want to pay rent and make sure I don't lose anything. There I was emailing anyone and everyone in the greater greater Boston area, truly the greater Boston area, and I was like, hey, do you have space for a strength coach or a manual therapist to provide services for your clients to more or less words and I try to preface it with who I was and just like I did with you earlier today. So that's where I was with that. And you know, some said yes, some said no, some said they can find somebody and then they didn't get back to me. And you know, I emailed maybe 20 people and then three, four got back to me and that's where I'm at now.

I love it. I mean, and in 2020, I mean, that is. Yeah, that's pretty.

Some of these individuals haven't even seen my face. Like that's how, like. Yeah.

For sure, for sure, for sure. Okay. So, you know, I, I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about, you know, one of the things that themes that I'm hearing from you is that your tenacity and resilience in really learning. Right. And you know, pushing the envelope and what it is that you do know. I will, I will get back to the question, but are you still dancing?

Not as much. Not as much just because it's super, like intense. Yeah.

Do you work with dancers?

I do and I have. Yeah. At the end of the day, the biggest commonality with whomever I'm working with, whether it's an athlete, dancer, baseball player, or, you know, a stay at home individual, everybody's kind of staying at home nowadays. So is there human? So it's not like we're gaining new body parts. It's not like we're getting new things. Like, once you understand the basic tenets of how humans move and how they can move, you can kind of apply it to a lot of individuals.

I love it. I love it. So who. I said I would go back to the question and I will. But just real question, real quick, what's your favorite, who's your favorite to work with in terms of like goals? Are you like, do you like to work with athletes? Do you like to work with? Like, what's your favorite.

Yeah.

Thing to work on?

Well, it's funny because I, you know, each, each time of day I work with somebody different and I do enjoy each part of my day. It's another thing also is like if, if I'm in business and I'm just trying to make money versus like actually liking who I work with. It's. That's two different kind of regions there. I want to like who I work with. So I like who I work with. Adults wise, you know, they give me a sort of groundedness, like whether or not something's working, like, they'll tell me and you can have real communication there with this individual. The youth athletes I work with, whether they're, you know, 14 to 18 or 19, they're just funny. They're just funny. They're like. The kids nowadays are definitely. I mean, I'm not sure how much you interact with younger athletes or individuals. They're definitely a different breed of individuals.

I have a six year old and a four year old, so they're super young. But I'm about to go into that territory of like, wait, what? My nieces and nephews, though, some of the things I'm like, are you speaking English?

Yeah. Yeah. It keeps you young, I guess, right?

Anyway, so they're funny. So you just like. It's just a different. It's a different world working with them.

Specifically athletes, football players, for whatever reason, are just really funny. I don't know why. They're just really funny. Baseball players, for some reason get pretty intense. It's always like each, each sport has a different culture. And it's really interesting because like football players just generally are relatively funny. And then baseball guys, like the pitchers, for whatever reason, they're super, like, they can either be super intense or I just know they're always like thinking about what they do. So there's like super like introverted and then everyone else on the team is relatively extra extroverted and they're just like, they're just more funny because you spend so much time with each other as a, you know, as an athlete and you kind of like grow to bond as a team. So they all kind of know each other. They get comfortable and they get. And they extend it towards me.

I love it. I love it. Okay, so back to the original question. I was, I started to say is I forgot it. You know, I didn't ask it because I kept going sidetracked. So now I'm gonna go back to it because I, you know, I hate. So, you know, one of the things that you do so well is research and learn, right? So what would you say to someone who was just starting out, right, and they're looking to leverage. And what I mean by leverage is, you know, leverage your experience in terms of, you know, what can you fast track for them? What would you say to your young, your younger self? What would you want to teach them that would save you some time?

That's super tough now because, you know, as, you know, social media was as prevalent as it was back in, you know, eight years ago, 10 years ago. So for sure it was like, yeah, it was like MySpace was just ending in like 2006, 7, 8. So, like, that was like, yeah.

Oh my gosh. That you really did date now. Now you have dated yourself.

Yeah, I, like, felt super cool to have like a college email so I could use Facebook.

Oh my gosh, me too.

So it was so, you know, you have this social media that, you know, there's so many shiny things to look at. So it's. How do you do research when everything's, you know, shiny in the context of like, look at me, look at me. You know, I, I originally thought that I also needed to be shinier than the next individual, as when I first started my social media stuff. So I was like getting into like, design and understanding how to do that. But, you know, the, the biggest thing if I was going to talk to myself, I would say is, you know, try to find. This is exactly what I said. You know, I've had several journals that I wrote to myself as well is try to find the truth and then the truth of what? Right? The truth of this part of the science, this part of the kind of the expertise. Because that's what each step in my journey of my life so far has led me to. It's, you know, when I was dancing, I always tried to find the most renowned dancer to work with in the area. And then same thing with, you know, strength dishing, I try to find the most renowned individual that I could at the time with the resources that I, that I had never go too far to like, you know, just try to offer services, try to offer time, try to offer, you know, even if it's like, hey, can I get you a cup of coffee? That sort of thing, just so you can like grab two to three minutes of saying of a question with an individual and say, hey, where did you learn this one thing? Because that little piece of like, where can I learn this one thing will go much further than just reading something on social media, because now you have a connection versus just absorbing the piece of information on social media and not connecting. So, so, like, that's like one aspect I don't think I've talked about in any of the podcasts that I've done in so many years ago. But is, is that connection piece? Because that's essentially the, like the, the connecting piece that I've had with all the individuals I've worked with and will continue to work with is having some sort of connection with them. So you have this piece of an individual or an expert, and then you can ask them this question that is organic, it's not a fake. Question. It's something that piques my curiosity. So I would say follow the curiosity, follow the truth, and, you know, try to offer something in the context of time, coffee, if you have that ability, something along those lines. So.

So I love that you talk about this concept of the truth, because I think that it is a nuanced conversation because when we're talking about truth, there are different approaches to getting to the truth. But oftentimes, especially when we're in this ecosystem of social media context where it's just this echo chamber, there's a lot of, of different approaches and dogmatic approaches to getting to the truth. So I'm curious, what is your opinion and thoughts on how you actually can stay both open and, and, you know, learn the truth? Like, how do you find it?

Essentially there was this book from Ryan Holiday. He talked about another book, I forget the exact name, but essentially it's a story about how this individual, an immigrant from a different country, I think somewhere in South America, I could be wrong. But the general tenet is he was buying bananas. And this was a big market for that time because, you know, I mean, early 1900s food, you needed food. So it's not like you just go to Trader Joe's or Whole Foods and get food. It was like you had to go to the market. So this individual bought bananas at a reduced price because they were being sold because they were getting older, but they were cheaper if that's the case. So he bought a bunch of them and then just brought them to a different market. So that's the premise, where I'm going with this is he was now amassing so much money because he did that, that he was into the market of buying farms. So he was buying this one farm from another individual. But the individual said, oh, you need to go to this part of the country to buy it, to buy, to get the licensure and all the registration permits. Then another, it was on, it was on like a border. So one part of the country said, this is ours. Another part of the country said, no, this is ours. So essentially two different individuals said, we own this one piece of land. So instead of catering and trying to get one person to say, no, this is correct, and go through that judicial concepts, blah, blah, blah. He just bought both. So there was no, like, mincing, like, I have both pieces of information, I have both permits saying, I own this land now. So there's no one can say otherwise. So that's where I often come back to in my head of finding the truth. Just get both Sides and listen to both sides and then make your own decision. So if there's an individual that says, no, my approach works better, and then another individual says, no, my approach works better. I'm going to be like, okay, I see what both of you are doing. I'm going to learn. It's not like, you know, a 10 year journey learning, but it's like I'm just going to learn even just a little bit of what you're saying and see if it holds water so I can learn both sides of that, you know, whatever the topic may be so you can understand and understand that like, okay, you have some truth here, you have some truth here. Both of you combined, you actually have only both of you have a little bit of this, a little bit of that, but when you combine it, it actually is even better.

Yeah. And I also think that it, you know, that's such a good, that's, that's such a good point and insight. And I think it also comes down to what I'm hearing you say is that you're looking for truth not to be right, but truth to actually advance your client. Truth to advance results for your clients. Right. It's not about like being right, it's about getting results. Essentially. That's what I'm hearing you say when you're talking about the truth. Like, what is going to get my client the fastest result?

Yeah, yeah. Cause you might. Exactly. Cause, you know, if I'm paying an individual to teach me how to do something and then I have to buy, you know, something else from somebody else to learn what they do, I might lose a little bit in the short term, but then I would advance, you know, trifold in a month, two months, three months. I would advance much quicker by learning both of these methods. Same time.

Yes. Okay, so I'd love for you to share a little bit about, like, what's your process? What are your, how do you carry someone through where they want to be to where they want to go?

So with the athletes I work with, you know, I did. I don't even know how many calls I did very recently in terms of, you know, new year, new you kind of things. But more or less in a good way. I've been swamped. In a good way. I've been losing some sleep. But the process of working. Yeah, you understand the. It's crazy when it's like, it's actually like a good thing. It's like, okay, I, because it's new year, only happens in the new year, it doesn't happen in August, so with the athletes. So to build off of that, it doesn't happen in, in August. But the cool thing that I work with in athletes, that they have different seasons. So there's like a revolving door of like in the new year. I work more with like general population or just people who want to lift. I work with some athletes too, but spring training happens for baseball, so some individuals fall off because they, they work with their teams and all that stuff. So that door kind of closes for a little bit. And then summertime comes around, then more youth and college athletes come in and then fall time comes around, the pro guys are coming back. So it's like there's always a revolving door of something new happening. Especially if I keep that general population door open for myself. If I didn't otherwise then I wouldn't again be able to keep these lights on. So the process that I work with is very straightforward. I always like to describe that. This is literally what I've been saying ad nauseam this whole week, past weekend, all my calls. It's three steps, three steps with an additional fourth. If you want to work either in person or online. It's comprises of, well, the individual comes to me with something, they either have some sort of pain or some sort of discomfort they want to move past. I'm not treating necessarily their pain, but I might be helping them get over it. So we're going to do an assessment, a physical assessment, movement assessment. I'm not checking reflexes, but I'm checking can you move in this way in order to do the things you need to do? It often comes down to simple questions in terms of history, of like, okay, you might have back pain. I might even not even ask them about lifting. The first thing I'll ask them is how is it getting out of bed? How is it, how's it getting out of the car? Do you have problems twisting and turning to do the dishes? It's basic everyday stuff. Because if you can improve that, step one, it's like, okay, let's now talk about the gym. Because you need to do this stuff first without any pain, before you start lifting crazy weights and all that stuff. So that's step one is do an assessment. The second step is to do some sort of treatment. I typically lean towards, well, the treatment is going to be the treatment essentially whether it's doing manual therapy or some sort of exercise, you know, stretching, drill, etc, just to get them where they need to be and then recapping to them whether or not this worked or it didn't Work. So if it doesn't work, guess what we're going to do? We're going to go into another drill. So I'm super agnostic to the movement. I just want to get it done because the third step is reassessment. Did it work? So it's a three step process of assessing, treating, reassessing. So that's one area. So that's like one service that I offer. The additional fourth step that I talked about earlier is based off of this stuff. Do you want me to write you an exercise program? Because I can. Because that's been my life for nine, 10 years and I can provide that. In lieu of the pain that you are currently experiencing, we could still do these movements in the form of an exercise program. And then that whether or not they want to, that's obviously up to them, but that's, that's how it works.

I see. So what, what are. I had like three different questions I was going to ask you, so I'm like, which one do I go through first? Okay, so you know, as you're putting down this, you're, you're explaining this process and it sounds so simple, but I know that it comes from years of experience, experience and education. So, you know, what are the, what are the common traps that you see people who are just starting out or they're trying to take? You know, I think there is ease with simplicity, which is what I love. So what are some of the common traps that you see people fall into when they are learning complexities of movement and trying to apply it?

I think so. Not even just going into the science, but the logistics of it. Some, some we might have something successful or even like semi successful. You know, somebody might say, yeah, I'm not in pain anymore, but my arm still does this. When it like it clicks, I'm like, well, first stop doing that. That's the first thing. And then are you getting, or do you feel better already? It's like, yeah, but then it's like, it's hard for them to conceptualize that they are already getting better after one or two treatments. The common trap that individuals fall into just in the industry alone into this realm of things is that I need 10, 20 appointments or I need weekly appointments for a whole year. That may not be true, but it based on the, how can I say? It's based on where the individual is coming from. They might have had a previous injury before and now they go to a physical therapist, Cairo, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And they have 30 minute meetings with these individuals and it's hard to get a lot done in 30 minutes or even 15 minutes. And they, that's the commonalities that they're used to versus when they work with me. I demand 60 to 90 minutes. So I take time. The first 20 minutes is me talking about their history or them talking to me. So 20 out of 30 minutes and then you have five minutes left for treatment. That's really, it's really tough. So that's that side of things. That's a common kind of pitfall or trap when it comes to, you know, individuals working with me in that realm of things. The questions always come into like, what, what is too, is there too much to do? Is this kind of what you're asking is like, is there too many times I can do this in a day? Is, is it, is that where you're going with it?

Well, either way, right. Just any of the common like things that you just see. Like on my, on my end, I tend to see people trying to learn everything and feel like, oh, I just need to be the best. I need to get my certifications.

Oh, I see. From the trainer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And trainer or physical therapy. Right. I feel like a lot of time physical therapists are like, I can only take insurance.

Yeah, okay, I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. So you know, if we're talking, I was talking more from the clients pitfalls is what I'm saying. From the trainer and professional's perspective. I think the biggest question that I can ask. I've asked this so many times to the interns that I've worked under. You know, I've worked with interns for four and a half years and every year we get about six fresh interns. So 18 times, you know, four and a half. Four and a half, whatever that number is. 60 something. 60, 70 individuals each one. I've asked this question to, of what do you want? Because they go into the internship process of a strength conditioning facility and they just go. Because of so many different reasons. The accolades, the learning, the this, the that. But when I asked them specifically, like we're sitting down like this and I say, okay, what do you want out of this? What do you want for yourself? Then it's super tough because they just don't know what they want. They just want to be around. And sometimes some individuals say, I just want to be here. I'm like, okay, cool, that works, you know, if they just want to be. That's what, that's something that I was doing too, because I was super young into the game. I was like, yeah, I just want to be here. Just enjoy the surrounding environment because I don't know what's going on. Otherwise I'm just going to be happy I'm here. Otherwise people don't know what they want. So, you know, figure out what you want. Number one, that's a common pitfall if you don't. Why are you taking an educational route if you don't know what you want? Something I said to so many people, like friends and family and everything, I always said at the end of the day, you know, with the vastness of the Internet and compare the vastness of the Internet plus my stubbornness. I always say that I don't think I needed to go to college. So that's a big thing. That's not, I guess so many years ago was tough to say, but like now everyone's saying don't go to college and this and that. But where I'm going with that is I didn't know what I wanted at first, so I stuck with it though. But then eventually I kept on snowballing effect to something larger. But if you find out what you want, then you could make a plan for how you want to get there. It's a really straightforward. I've tried to be as straightforward as possible because you could reverse engineer what you want. If you want to be the best fat loss coach ever, you got to go to some people to figure out what it means or you got to figure it out for yourself or, you know, and learn the science if you need to learn the science or learn the psychology if you need to learn psychology. Like there's, there's different ways to go about it and I'm sure you understand that part of it.

I do, I do a lot. And I think that, I think that what you, what you started with in terms of, you know, know what you want and make the decision. And I think to me the added part to that is make a decision and be okay with changing your mind. Right. You're. What happens is so many people want to just get it right. Oh, you know, or they're using their contacts like, oh, my family said I had to do this, I have to go to college, I have to do blah, blah, blah, right? There's all these stories and reasons that they have around not making a decision or making a decision and then sticking to it, not giving themselves permission to let it go out the window if, say, hey, I loved breakdancing and now I'm Ready to move on and learn some manual therapy. Right. I think that there's a lot of it. It sometimes the easiest, the most simple path is the hardest to do.

Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed.

So it's amazing, you know, it's fun. Go ahead.

No, I just. And the, the other side of it is going off of what you're talking about. You know, the simplest path there is is probably the hardest thing to do. But once you understand that path, it's like, okay, you can, you can wake up every day and you know, this is where I'm going with it. This is where I'm going with it. So you know, my path, you know, you asked a couple question a couple minutes ago is like, what's the dream? It's like, well, I just wake up and I know I'm going to work and help, help people. Like that's the dream at the moment. It's not to own a facility because then that is an exorbitant amount of overhead at the moment. And I don't have the ability to cover because I literally, like I said, I literally just started like last year, so I don't have that capital right now. So where I'm going with this is if you wake up every day, you know what you want, then you can work towards it. That's, that's like a big, big step that not many people have that ability or that, that, that thought process rather not. They don't have the ability. You have to build that ability. The next thing is on that side of it, if you know what you want now you can like do the fun part of, of doing the things that you want, which is the, which is the whole part, it's the whole point. And in my case I wanted to, you know, reverse engineer what it meant to, you know, work with high level athletes and work with individuals on so many different skill sets and not just be the big. A big part of what I wanted to do is yes, I wanted to be a strength coach eventually. But the really interesting thing is I know that just lifting weights is not going to get an athlete to where they need to be. Does that part make. It's really tough to kind of conceptualize because we see things from, you know, the mainstream media where individuals like I saw a Buffalo Bills article saying that they don't back squat during the off season, during, during the in season because it, it just like bogs them down or it fatigues them. So we see articles that are written about what pro athletes do, do, but then the funniest part Is like, I can literally go to work later today and, like, talk to these athletes and say, what did you do with your team instead? And so it's like, you're cutting the noise because there's no more noise to even worry about. There's just no fog of this mystery. Mysterious. Like, what are the teams doing? Like, we can just talk to them. Once you get to that level now, it's like, okay, I understand. That listing alone won't get them to where they need to go. They need to do some other stuff. And. And that comes in the form of skills. That comes in the forms of mentality that. That might come in the form of recovery. Sometimes individuals do too much.

Especially at that level.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, you know, these to. To kind of take a detour away from the original conversation. But pro athletes in basketball, you have 82 games in a year. In baseball, you got 162. You got a lot of games. In football, you only have 16 weeks. But you're literally hitting each other each. Each play. So it's pretty tough, right? It's pretty tough.

No wonder they're funny.

Whether by. Whether by purpose. Yeah. So, you know, the average age of the average career span of an NFL athlete is three years. Not even. Right. It's under three years. So you know, somebody like Tom Brady, who, whether just retired or not, or whether, I don't know, you did or not, like, you know, ESPN saying otherwise now, but otherwise it's. He's been going for I don't even know how many years. 20 something, I think could be. Could be a little less. But still, where I'm going with this is, you know, you learn what these athletes need to do to get better, and then you find out that what I originally thought they needed to do does not match what they actually need to do to get better or stay healthy. And that's where the manual therapy came in. So I wanted to help in that realm if that kind of closes that loop, if that makes sense.

Yeah, no, it does. And it also came down to the decision of you wanting to work at that level. I think there's so much, you know, I think that people have this vision that they're just going to work. They want to work with pro athletes because that's the top. But that's. You can. You can work. You can have a very lucrative and be the. Go to pt. Manual therapy is in your area, if that's, you know, and work with the population that you want to work with. It's not really about, like, hitting Any accolades, It's about who do you want to serve? Because it's really going to require a level of specificity, whether it is an athlete and depending on what type of athlete or it's, you know, a stay at home mom or working mom or, or CEO or whoever it is that you want to work, you want to work with. I think ultimately it also comes down.

To who you want to work with a hundred percent. Because then once you understand who you want to work with, there's like, I'm big fan of like the number three. Like, there's three things. It's like once you understand who you want to work with, what you want to do in that realm, then you know the steps to get there and like, what to do about it. So, like, with that said, I mean, I know what I'm going to do about it, so.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. A hundred percent. Right? And then, you know, people make decisions based on like, oh, well, there's only X amount of spots or, you know, everyone's talking about it. But I just always go back to the stats and the numbers just don't lie in the sense of, you know, fitness is $1.2 billion industry and yet only 12% of Americans are metabolically flexible. Like, you can't tell me that. And you know, how many of those people are, you know, moving in pain or not, you know, not moving because of Pam. There's just an infinite amount of people to help, 100%.

And you know, whenever I'm trying to communicate things on social media or even in person, I just want to express like, again, going back to the truth, like, these are things that I know. Here are the things we're going to do. Let's go do it. Like, there's no mincing of words. There's no like, fanciness about it. It's like, let's just try this, get to where we need to go and then move on from there. So I've always tried to be as super straightforward as possible and I hope that kind of comes across, especially with everyone I've worked with.

I love it. I love it. Okay, so I definitely want to be mindful of your time. So for those of you who want to go deeper on this conversation with you, hang out with you. Where are the best places I should send them?

I have every social media account, name of Migzy Bogues. I'm on everything.

Love it.

M I G G S Y B O G u e s @migzybogues on everything. Instagram, Twitch, Twitter, just about everything.

Okay, cool. So we'll, we'll link all that up and we'll come send them your way. So thanks so much for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate it.

Definitely. Thanks for having me.

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