The Truth About Your Nutrition Scope as a Coach with Adam Ross

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 184. Today I'm sitting down with registered dietitian Adam Ross, and we're talking all about the truth about your nutrition scope. Are you ready? Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance and movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up, coach? Thank you so much for joining me in another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and if this is the first time you're hanging out with me today, welcome. I'm super pumped that you're here. Today I have a very special episode with a Ridge registered dietitian and nutrition coach, Adam Roths, who helps active people skyrocket their energy levels, burn more fat and build more muscle by enhancing their metabolism with an improved nutrition and lifestyle approach for better results in the gym and an improved quality of life. He helps people achieve their health and fitness goals by using this metabolic enhancement formula which he talks about inside of this episode, and working specifically with each individual person to develop their dietary strategy along with the routines and habits needed for long term sustainable success. This is what we talk about inside of the episode. Also, as a coach, what your scope is and how you can understand the functionality of the metabolism and how, as a coach, you can ask effective questions and navigate what the boundaries are between what's in your scope and what is not and when to delegate. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. What's up, Adam? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you?

I'm excellent. How are you?

I'm doing good. It's a little gloomy here in our east coast New York windows.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

No, not the greatest day, but a good day to sit inside and talk, I guess, right?

Can't wait. I can't wait. I'm super pumped to dive in today. So for those of you who are listening to the show and haven't had the pleasure being introduced to your work, Adam, would you please share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

For sure, yeah. So, Adam Ross. I'm a registered dietitian. Mostly I serve athletic population, so I've kind of connected myself with a really awesome trainer, actually. I worked under him in New York City for a long time at his gym. I'm actually wearing the shirt today. Drive 495. But so don Saladino is a guy that I work pretty closely with now, and he runs a series of like, fitness challenges monthly and stuff. And I've been lucky enough to kind of help him out with a lot of the more like, I guess what you would call like more involved or more intricate situations of nutrition with people that are in his challenges. And then obviously, you know, a lot of word of mouth and stuff basically as well has kind of spread it. So basically what I'm working with most right now is just active population, just people that are really kind of putting in the hours, putting in the time on themselves in the gym, really looking just for that healthier lifestyle and just more like a. Well, like a rounded, like wellness essentially is usually the kind of the people that I see the most of. And also, as a registered dietitian, I do have the ability to do some, you know, more medically based stuff. So I do see some. A lot of people with, you know, gut health issues and things like that, or every once in a while with a little bit more severe medical stuff that I'm able to kind of help them handle as well. So that's essentially the who, I guess. And how I got here is a little bit of a long story, so I'll keep it somewhat short. But actually was. I was an athlete my whole life. So I grew up in Western Canada. I'm from Red Deer, Alberta. And I was lucky enough I ended up getting a hockey scholarship, you know, in my late teens and I moved out to Massachusetts area and I was playing Division 1 hockey out there. And that's really when, you know, I showed up pretty confident for, you know, just thinking, okay, you know, I'd had a really good year playing junior hockey. I was going to show up to D1 and it was going to all be the same and everything was going to be great. And I quickly realized that I wasn't as prepared as I wanted to be. And, you know, I've always been a super competitive guy. So I just remember, you know, about three quarters of the way through my freshman year at school, I just made a decision. I was like, all right, like, this isn't happening again next year. I'm not showing back up like this, like, unprepared and just feeling like I'm, you know, I'm a big guy. I'm like 6, 4, 220 or something at that point, like, I should have been stronger. I should have been faster. I should have been more prepared, right? So, you know that after that freshman year, I really kind of doubled down on my workouts, and I also started paying attention to my nutrition for the first time in my life. I had always been just like, you know, your average, like, kid that does all the sports and stuff. I'd eat whatever I wanted. It didn't matter. I never worried about it. And then, you know, I made some really, like, just basic changes. I still knew nothing about nutrition, so I was just like, all right, I'll, like, you know, stop eating as much cheese, and I'll try to, like, you know, eat more protein and whatever. So, you know, cutting out, like, hot chocolates and donuts and stuff. I was working a construction job, so, you know, there was always coffee and donuts. So I, like, basically quit participating in that and try to make some healthier changes. And I saw this, like, just over the three months of the summer, I just had this massive, like, I transformed my whole body, and I felt so good, and, you know, muscle mass was packing on. I was getting way leaner, feeling way better, and that was really what triggered it. And then over the course of the next three years, through my college career, it just got. I just got more and more interested in it. And then I moved on. I played professionally, so I made it as far as the American Hockey League with the Montreal Canadiens farm team. And, I mean, it just went. It just scaled.

Right?

Like, I feel like that was my competitive advantage that I was getting over other guys, because at that level, it's like the difference in skill levels is very minimal, but preparedness is a little bit different.

Right?

Like, all the guys were training. All the guys were in the weight room. All the guys were practicing and practicing skills, but not everybody was paying attention to their nutrition. And I felt like that was kind of what gave me a bit of a leg up. And then I'll. I'll cut this off shortly. But, no, I love this.

This is such a good. This is such a good story. This is amazing.

Well, that's the rise. And then there was the fall. So, I mean, basically, after a few years of playing pro hockey, I got so crazy about my nutrition, and now I had gotten into more, like, you know, I'm looking at paleo diets, and I'm doing all this stuff, and I really ended up over training myself and underfeeding myself drastically. And I really burnt myself out, you know, just dealing with injuries and, you Know, probably. I mean, pretty safe to say, probably some hormonal stuff too, and just really took it too far right where my intentions were always the best. Like, I was doing it because I wanted to get better. I wanted to be bigger, faster, stronger, and it was actually going the exact opposite direction. I was getting weaker, I was getting slower, I was getting injured, all these things. And essentially it kind of ran. Ran me into, like, a burnout from the sport and quit playing hockey. Right. So after that, I actually got a communication degree from Merrimack. And it was a few years after the fact, you know, I'd kind of stayed in, like, the personal training, you know, area and, you know, still always, like, heavily into fitness and everything myself and nutrition. I ended up going back to school, becoming registered dietitian with the intention of, you know, kind of helping people, obviously just navigate a really messy nutrition space and hopefully make, you know, less. Less bad decisions than I made. And, you know, just. Just really, you know, that was. The goal, is to come back and help people understand a little bit about nutrition that. That I didn't, you know, back then.

I love that. And I'd love for you to dive deeper into this a little bit because I think that you, based on what you shared, you have the experience many coaches have, which is, you know, understanding the difference between what is scope of practice, what am I allowed to communicate? Because I. It's inevitable that if you're a coach and you're training and you're, you know, have your own fitness and you also are helping clients, that there's going to be some communication around nutrition. So I'm curious, as a registered dietitian, what is the scope of practice that people need to be aware of and be able to. To know what's in scope and what's out?

Yeah, totally. And this is even a little bit murky here, like, because there's really, I mean, you know, like, in terms of, like, you know, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and stuff, I think they've been trying for years now to kind of claim the title of nutritionist, saying that, you know, unless you have some formal education or whatever and you are a registered dietitian, that you can't use the title nutritionist. Because, I mean, anyone can claim. It's just like a personal trainer. Anyone can say they're a personal trainer, right? Or anyone can say they're a health coach. Anyone can say they're a nutritionist. They don't have to have any schooling, any background or anything. So that's where Things do get a little tricky, right, And a little bit messy. So, like, in terms of the scope, definitely, you know, as a registered dietitian, you have the ability to do the more like medically diagnosed stuff. We're going to be able to work in hospitals and things like that where someone who doesn't have that. The schooling as a registered dietitian is not going to have that opportunity. But you know, just in the fitness and wellness space, this is kind of where it gets a little bit crazy, right? Because, you know, anybody can be giving nutrition information and especially, you know, any, any personal trainer is going to be giving nutrition information, right? So it's just kind of a simple fact. And even like, I worked for a couple years at the collegiate level, I worked for St. John's University helping their Division 1 athletes and things like that and general student body. But the athletes, or, you know, if we're talking in terms of a personal trainer and their client, they're. They're seeing their, their strength coach five to seven days a week, right? You know, personal training. You know, you're seeing your clients three, four days a week if you've got a good client, right? So there's a lot more touch points actually with like, the personal trainers or the strength coaches and stuff than there are with the dietitians or the nutritionists a lot of times, right. So it does get a little bit, you know, I guess you got to be a little bit careful. So I'm not really like, you know, some dietitians are like, oh, if you're not a, you know, if you're not a dietitian, you should not talk about nutrition. I'm not really like that. Like, I'm really of the belief that, like, if you've done your homework and you've done your studying and, you know, and you're confident that you can provide good information, then I'm happy. You know, I think it's good that you can provide that information. But also understanding when, you know things are getting a little bit out of your scope, where you're not just recommending basic, hey, here's how to eat healthier, get more protein, get more fruits, get more veggies, you know, focus on quality carbohydrates and fats and things like that, like when things start to become a little bit more muddy, then I would hope that, you know, the trainer, I guess, has the common sense to reach out to someone who's got a little bit more of an expertise in that aspect. And I think a lot of times they get Because I've been there, I've been a personal trainer, you know, for quite a few years. And you always want to help that person.

Right.

But I think a lot of times what they forget is that by like, you know, you, you send them to someone who's got a little bit more of an area of expertise in the nutrition area now, they're going to see a better result with their training, and it's just going to help you, you know, it's going to help you in the long run with your client results and stuff too.

Right.

So good. I, I love that you, that you shared that. You know, it's not, it's not black or white. I just think as human beings, we're always looking for the right, best next thing, and it's like, oh, we're just gonna somehow arrive where we forget that nutrition is actually a science and that science is always evolving, testing theories. We as human beings are changing. So it's, it's a ever growing, evolving thing, which I think is important. But I think a lot of trainers forget that nutritionists and registered dietitians not only spend years in school to learn this science. There's also a difference between information and then actually implementing it and the hours of clinical hours that you are doing in your rotations to get the experience required is something I think people forget.

Yeah.

It's not a small amount of hours.

No, it's not. So, you know, with that said, I'm curious, in your experience and education, what are some of the common misconceptions that we are seeing in the, you know, social media age? And I'm also laughing because I'm a parent, because it's not just social media. Right. You had mommy blogs back in the day that were like, ooh, I'm a mom and here's what you eat, here's my smoothie. Right. So in the information age, you just see so much conflicting information. So what are some of the common misconceptions that people can just toss out and dive deep into now?

Totally. Yeah. And just, you know, to touch on, like you said, about the, the science and, and how it's ever evolving, I think right now that probably the best example of that is like, calories in, calories out versus hormones. Right. Like, it's just, it's something that's. We don't know yet.

Right.

Like, there's so, it's so intricate. There's, there's so much to know about it and there's so much more studying that needs to be done. Right. So, yeah, it's things like that. Where this is, and that's why I love nutrition, is it's a space where it's going to always be evolving and there's always going to be new science coming out and then it's, it's up to you to kind of root through it and figure out what's, what's good and what's not.

Right?

But, but yeah. So in terms of like the common misconceptions, I mean, the ones that, I guess the, I guess the most common ones would be like the more fad type things, you know, like intermittent fasting, keto, low carb. There's just so many like, especially like detoxes and things like this, right? Or resets. You know, that's, and I know people, you know, just because things are called these certain things doesn't necessarily mean the product sucks or like the person's trying to rip you off or whatever. A lot of it is marketing. And, you know, it's like, you know, you gotta, you gotta understand the marketing, right? I mean, even for me as a dietitian, I mean, if, if I called everything by the science name, no one would ever be interested in it, right? So you got, you gotta create a little bit of, you gotta create a little bit of interest. But I think those are the things that, that are the most common misconceptions right now is, is that, you know, just trying to, to say that, like, hey, carbs are the only reason why anybody's ever gained weight. You know, if you're not intermittent fasting, you can't lose weight or, you know, that intermittent fasting is gonna essentially save your life with all this, you know, cellular regrowth and all this different stuff and increase in whatever, different hormones and things like that, right? So to me, it just gets made very difficult, right? Like there's like this one approach and if you don't stick to that approach, it's never going to happen for you. And you know, the, the problem with that is that the really, if you want to dig into the science, the science shows that the approach that, that works best is the one that you can stick to for the longest time and provides you the results you're looking for, right? So there's, and you can see it, I mean, the easiest way to see it is to look around social media. You have all these people that, they've got a result doing carnivore, these people have got a result doing keto, these people have got a result doing fasting, these people have got a result doing vegan diet. And yet there's millions of people in all these different aspects that are getting the same results. They're just doing it in a different way. Right. So they've essentially found an approach that works with them and that they can stick to and it's the most sustainable for them and that's what they've, they've done. Right. So I think that's kind of the misconception to me, the most common one is that you have to be on one specific rigid diet to, to, you know, create the result you want. Whereas like I'm more of like create a dietary approach that suits your life best, that suits your needs, suits everything, your routines and schedules and obligations and all this stuff. You know, create that dietary approach. You can, you can pull from certain areas that you, you find, you know, helpful or whatever, but you don't necessarily have to stuff yourselves your into one of these boxes and try to just stay in it all the time, you know.

Yeah, no, I, I, that's powerful. And I am curious, you know, whether someone has a goal of, you know, muscle gain or athletic performance or weight loss. Something that you said that is interesting as you were said, you know, it's the diet that you could adhere to or the dietary, you know, basically consistency. Well, you didn't say that, but that was alluded. What you meant was the, you know, what you can stick to. But I'm cur. When you're going for something that is performance based, whether it's weight loss, muscle game or athletic performance, is it something that needs to be long haul or is it supposed to be, you know, like for example, someone can't be on a calorie deficit forever. Right. So how do you, how do you really define consistency and sustainability?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. I mean it will always depend like it will be goal dependent like you said. Right. So certainly like if your goals are changing, then your approach is going to have to change. Right. If you're going performance based, you, you know, you're probably on and eat more exercise more approach for, until you don't want to be performance based anymore.

Right.

You know, if you're looking for more like aesthetic goals, then again, you know, calories are going to have to become a lot more regulated, probably a lot more well maintained up around, you know, your, I guess like probably maintenance, you know, minus a few calories maybe.

Right.

Get yourself into a small deficit. Nothing crazy, but I think that's going to be the thing. Right. So it's really always Going to be goal dependent. And yeah, I mean, even if your goal is just, you know, fat loss or whatever or like aesthetic goals, like you're always going to kind of want to have these like, seasons as you go through, right? So you're never just going to want to hop into a low calorie diet for the next two years or something like that. You know, unless you have mass amounts of weight to lose or something like that. If you're more performance based, you know, you're going to have to, you know, pick and choose your goals wisely, then you're going to have to set up your nutrition approach to suit those goals. So I mean, no, I mean that's the thing, right? Is that the, the approach will change consistently and it probably should change consistently as well.

Right.

Just to, to make sure that, you know, I mean, my big thing is like, especially with deficits and things like that is I think a lot of times people underestimate the value of like nourishment that that food brings us. It turns into calories and macros and you know, good versus bad and all this stuff. But I think a lot of times we misunderstand the importance of like nourishment and how these different foods, even if they are like, you know, higher calorie meals and stuff like that, they're still very nourishing to the body. Right? So it really comes down to like creating a nice balance of that and it's obviously going to be goal specific and on the individual, you know, and.

You'Re right, that nourishing component is undervalued because it's not just food is for fuel. We also use food to socialize, to connect. It's a nourishment experience. Typically when we're dealing with food, unless you're, you know, a postpartum mom and you've got one baby and one, you know, one hand. Just kidding. Half kidding. I am, you know, I am curious though. You know, we're, we are talking about performance based schools. But I'm curious your opinion and your approach when we are also, you know, talking about health and optimal health. And right now you'll see, you know, a lot of body positivity talking about how, you know, not necessarily healthy at every size, but health at every size. So I'm curious the, you know, and people arguing about bmi, is this worth it? Like, I'm just curious for you in terms of how you define optimal health for your clients and also, you know, what are the, the metrics essentially that you're measuring Totally.

Yeah.

And I think when it comes to that optimal health, I mean, I'm kind of, like I said, I'm big into kind of the Total Wellness package. So although I'm focused mostly on the nutrition piece, I am focused on kind of the total wellness piece as well. Right. So I think that would be physically and mentally.

Right.

That we're going to have to figure out what's going to create the best health for you. You know, obviously. So I just think, you know, obviously, you know, we can look at trends in terms of, you know, labs, right. Getting blood tests, things like that, making sure everything is healthy there. And then it really was, is going to come down again to the, to the person and kind of what, what they're looking for. Right. So I mean, to me, you know, in terms of, like, if we're trying to, if we're being realistic, you know, the higher the BMI climbs, you know, the more chance you have of, of running the risk of, you know, illness or sickness or disease or whatever. Right. So obviously we don't want to be, you know, the BMI again, it's, yeah, like you said, it's one of those things that's very, like, arbitrary. Like, I, it's never going to be something where I'm going to look at some, you know, hey, your BMI is like, I think mine's like 27 or 28. I'm pretty lean. It's just, I got muscle mass, right. So it's going to say that I'm overweight when I'm not. But so those types of things are a little, pretty, pretty arbitrary. But again, if we start getting up into the 30s, 35, whatever, you know, we do have excessive body fat. I, I'm, I am of the opinion that it's probably going to be most advantageous long term to try to bring that body fat down into a more normal level, something a little bit more manageable. And I think it's going to depend on the person too.

Right.

Because someone who's coming from, you know, 40 body fat or something like that, they may never be getting down to a 12 or whatever, you know, like, I think, you know, whatever they're saying is optimal for, you know, maybe 15 for males and 25 for females or whatever, you know, it's like. But if we can be making improvements, right? And I think that's essentially what they've seen in terms of, like, health improvements, right, is that it's not necessarily, you have to be at these low body fat percentages, but by decreasing body fat over time, it's actually decreasing your risk of these, you know, picking up these diseases and things like that. Right. So that's the big thing to me is it's just like finding an approach again, it's always going to come back down to sustainability, but something that is providing consistent improvement. So that would be on the more physical side and then with the mental side. I mean, the more, the longer I'm in this field, the more I gravitate toward the mental side because I just see it as just such a mega impact on people's nutrition, on their diet, on their body composition, all that stuff. Right. So, I mean, I think there's. There's nothing, you know, there's nothing more important than your mental health, obviously.

Right.

And a lot of times these very rigid dietary approaches and stuff do take a toll. So I think it's important, you know, I'm. I'm a macros, count calories, eat as healthy as you possibly can at all times kind of guy. I'm a little more from that performance based. I'm a little more of like a, I guess, you know, let's just get the job done and, you know, do what we need to do kind of guy. But I do think it's important to, again, kind of just like we would do with a dietary approach. Right. Or I guess it would be the same with a dietary approach, but like finding things that are working with us mentally as well. Right. So if you're going through a very stressful time in your life, maybe the next month is crazy stressful. Well, maybe it's not most advantageous for us to add extra stress by counting macros and calories and trying to keep your, you know, keep your calories in a deficit or something this month because it's just adding more stress on top of all the stress you already have. Right. So I think in terms of like that health approach, you know, making sure that, that we're very aware and understanding of, like, where we're at mentally and how our nutritional approach supports that in a better way rather than hurts it.

Right.

And a lot of times, you know, it just seems like when people are at their most stressed, they just want to continue to pile more stress on is what I found. So, you know, it's like people seem to care the most about their macros and their calories when they have no business caring about them.

Right.

It's like, wait a minute. No, no, no. Like you just had this traumatic event in your life or you're going through this mega change or something. Crazy is happening. Just what are you even thinking about, you know, macros and calories. Like, let's just like choose good foods. Let's focus on our proteins, let's focus on our veget and fruits. Let's focus on nutrition quality and food quality.

Right.

So that's kind of, you know, I think in terms of like that health and wellness, I would go for those two things, is, yeah, we want to be finding a nutrition approach that's improving, but we also want to find something that works with us mentally as well.

I think you're bringing up a good point. And I'm curious how you navigate this when it comes to. I talk about this a lot as the I'm fine coma is that most people don't recognize or realize how good it can get until they experience what it's like to live in their optimal health, whatever that looks like. So how do you start to wake people up from that and find coma?

For sure. Yeah. And that's actually one of the, the best, the things I love most about usually when at the, right, at the very beginning, right, when we get people on making some dietary changes and again, focusing more on proteins and these high nutrient dense foods. That is like one of the first things they'll tell me within days, hey, am I supposed to be like feeling different? I'm like, yes, you are, because you're providing nourishment, you're providing nutrients to your body. And all of these different nutrients, vitamins, minerals, whatever they are, they all play a role, right? And especially in energy metabolism and even immunity and brain function and all these different things, right? So once we start flooding the body with these nutrients, it doesn't take weeks or months for the nutrients to get to put to work. It's, it's almost instant, right? So, you know, that's the thing that I love when I hear is that people are saying, hey, like, I'm starting to feel better. And then, you know, I'm just essentially kind of trying to remind people consistently of like, yeah, like, you know, basically, like if we're, if we've been living down here in the dumps, that's normal for us, right? And you don't even understand that you could have this whole other gear. So that's essentially what I want you to see with the, making the nutrition changes is that you do have this other gear. And then it's also important to stay mindful of when you feel like you're, you're not in that gear anymore, right? Because it's like, all right, well, Maybe, you know, we've let a few things slip a little bit, you know, and then that's where we can go back and figure out, you know, what is it that maybe has changed nutritionally or with sleep or with stress or any, any other things. Exercise, whatever.

Right.

And then we can change the nutrition approach based off of all these other stressors or just make sure that the nutrition approach is, is still adequate.

Right, yeah. So, you know, and also I'm, I'm curious. In addition to the I'm fine coma, you have the other side of the spectrum where you have your, your athletes or your high performers, high achievers who are used to discomfort and they're used to, you know, pass pushing past the point of their, their, you know, past the point of pain, essentially, or the first line of the fence of pain. Right. And so I feel like because of that, we see a lot of disordered eating habits and disordered nutrition habits even within the fitness space, the fitness and the, you know, media space. And I think too, the media perpetuates that. So, you know, what is the percentage of people in your experience that you've worked with that live in these like two extremes versus the like happy optimal middle? Somewhere around that.

Yeah, yeah, no, I, I would. I mean, the percentage is huge. I mean, and even, you know, as an ex athlete myself, and I've been around a lot of high performers there, there is a ton of, you know, disordered eating and even, you know, eating and especially, you know, thoughts and feelings around food and stuff like that. I mean, that's the biggest. Especially, you know, when I was working with the D1 athletes and stuff. That was obviously huge. I went through a lot of that, even myself, like I said, when I was getting a little bit, bit too crazy with my own nutrition.

Right.

So. No, I mean, I think it, I think it's more common than not.

Right.

Because I mean, even if you just, you know, you just look now and like we were talking all these, everybody who has all these beliefs about, well, you know, carbs are going to kill me, like all this stuff, right? Like, oh, like, you know, a lot of the people answered, I'm eating fruit. I struggle with eating fruit because it's bad for me. And I'm just like, it's just, it hurts me to like, see it, you know, and. But this is the thing. I mean, I think in today's climate, it's almost impossible not to have disordered thoughts or feelings or eating patterns or anything like that just because we're flooded with so much Information, and it's so conflicting. And then if we're in this space, right, you're in the fitness, wellness, nutrition, whatever, this kind of space that me and you live in, you're looking for. You're dealing with people that are looking for more, looking better. They're looking for improvements. They're trying to solve something or they're trying to improve something. So naturally we're. They're seeking information, which is just, again, getting in people's heads and stuff, right? So I think, yeah, I mean, there's very few people who I've seen where I've been like, oh, yeah, your. Your approach to nutrition is great. Like, you have a healthy mindset around it. You have healthy routines and habits and all these things. Like, there's usually always something that we're going to need to work on for.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, it's true. So, you know, especially given the numbers, I mean, fitness, I haven't looked recently, but fitness is like a $1.2 billion industry, and yet just Americans, over 80% of us, struggle with our health. So it's clearly some work to be done.

Yeah, well, that's the scary thing, right, is it's like, it seems like, again, I don't know, maybe this is just that I'm in this space and I'm not paying attention to people who aren't in the space. But, yeah, it seems like more and more people are getting more and more interested in their health and in their nutrition. It's, you know, becoming a lot more, I guess, talked about, right? Like, the importance of all of these things, and yet people continue to get more and more unhealthy. Right? So, I mean, again, I think that's the, you know, if we're looking at kind of the stats, right? I mean, things need to change, and it's just. It's just so tricky to figure out exactly what it is that needs to change. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, you know, the society's always changing, world's always changing, technology is changing, you know, and I think, you know, it's. The more. The more we get into this, like, needing things now kind of, I guess, like, approach with our society, right? Like, everything's too easy nowadays. You know, you don't even have to leave your home or get out of your car or anything if you don't want anymore.

Right?

Like, and that's exactly what I feel like people or a lot of us want with our nutrition and with our fitness and stuff, is we just want it now.

Right?

And if we can't get it now, then we're going to find the person who will say, we can get it now, and we'll follow that person, you know, and unfortunately, that's kind of the kicker is, say this a lot is when it comes to fitness, when it comes to health, there's only one way to get it, and you got to earn it. You can't buy it, you can't have someone else do it for you. You can't outsource it. You can absolutely seek help, right? You can hire pts, you can hire nutrition coaches, you can hire mental health coach. But at the end of the day, you still got to do the work, right? You still got to put the effort in. So it's, it's tricky because it's, it's one of those things where, you know, we're kind of every. Everywhere else in society is kind of making things, you know, easier, whereas, like, this is something that's getting harder for everybody.

It's interesting. It's interesting.

That's.

That's a good perspective. You know, I'm. I'm also curious to switch gears just a little bit on, you know, on, on things like metabolic damage, right? So I had three things come to mind at once. But oftentimes the, you know, the reason why this question is coming up to my mind is because I feel like, to your point, so many people fixate on, on the small, nuanced things that don't matter in an effort to expedite the result. Like, should I drink apple cider vinegar with my coffee this morning? Should I put butter in my coffee? Right? That's not to criticize, but just to highlight the. Are big rocks and more important things that you can pull in order to, you know, maximize your output and get a better result. Right? And sometimes it's not about speed, so.

Totally.

With that said, you know, one of the things we hear a lot is like, oh, starvation mode, metabolic damage. You can't be at a calorie deficit for too long. Like, sometimes things feel very conflicting and confusing. So can you clarify a little bit from your perspective, what is a big rock? What is a small rock? Is metabolic damage real? And.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

And that's, that's kind of where I gear my coaching program around is like, you know, I call it metabolic enhancement, right? Natural metabolic enhancement, because there are some actual big rocks that we really can hit on that are going to make a massive impact. Right? And then there's the things, right, like the apple cider vinegar and, you know, capsaicin or like, you know, red pepper chili flakes or whatever. You know, it's like, hey, you know, put chili flakes on everything because they increase the thermic effect or whatever. You know, do your, yeah, like do your apple cider vinegar. You know, the acidic acid helps. Yeah. Acetic acid helps to mobilize some fat or whatever. But like, you know, these are things where. Yeah, I guess so.

Right.

Like there are some, some, there's, there's some validity to it, but the impact is so minor that it's not really gonna be anything. Put a lot of focus on. Right. So definitely in terms of like. Well, I'll start here like with the, with the metabolic damage. Yeah, I mean there's. It can happen. I don't know if I would call it damage though, because the metabolism is adaptive and it's reactive. So it's essentially adapting and reacting to what you're making it do.

Right.

It's counter, it's counterbalancing the stupid you're doing to yourself essentially to make, to make sure nothing bad happens to you. Right. So it's. When we get into these super rigid approaches, very low calorie diets, like very nutrient poor diets, where we're no longer providing the vitamins and minerals that our body needs to produce these energy levels and function our immune system and our brain and all these things, things like this, the metabolism is going to adapt and react to that. So if we've got a metabolism that slowed down over time to counterbalance the fact that you haven't eaten more than 1100 calories in the last few years, then yeah, I guess we could call that metabolic damage. But essentially that's just an adaptation that you forced onto it.

Right.

So yes, those things can happen. And it's been studied.

Right.

And it's. They see it essentially depends on the person. Right. Some people's metabolisms will kind of slow pretty quickly as they decrease their caloric intake. Other people's will stay higher for a little bit longer and then start to decrease over time. And same with the, the repair that.

Right.

Or the increasing of that.

Right.

Like to do kind of like refeed diet or something like that. It just is going to depend on the individual as to how quickly that thing starts to come back and you start to burn a little bit more calories and everything. So with things like that, I think it's definitely important to take. Like that's why I don't like to take or I like to just be, you know, take things slowly essentially with our decreases or our or our calorie jumps and things like that. Because if we do have any kind of adaptations, you know, say you've been eating 1100 calories for two years and all of a sudden you're just going to jump in, you know, jump into a 2,000 calorie diet. Well, maybe the body's not exactly equipped to do that anymore. And then you end up putting on a bunch of extra body fat or something like that. Right? So, you know, small incremental changes just to try to increase things and then being very mindful of the result. Right. So obviously the, you know, the physical results, like are you, you know, are you gaining weight? Are you gaining body fat, are you gaining muscle? You know, where, where are you kind of, of seeing the benefits of this and then also the, the physiological rate or like the biofeedback, right? So making sure that, you know, hunger is getting better, mood is getting better, energy and cravings are increasing and stuff like that is going to be huge. Right. And then obviously you can make your, you can adjust your approach based on that. So, yeah. So that, you know, in terms of the metabolic damage, it is very possible to slow things down, but it is also very possible to get things sped back up.

Right.

Just may take some patience.

Does age play into a factor of that age and gender?

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it's all going to play a factor, right? I mean, I know that the most. The study that came out, I guess it was two years ago now or was. No, it was just a year ago. About age and metabolic rate. I think they, I think it was 60, right. Where they saw that metabolic rates finally started to slow for people at age 60 just based off age alone. So a lot of times people think that, oh, I'm 40, my metabolism's down, I'm 50, my metabolism is down. It's actually not really adjusting based off of your age until you hit about 60 years old. Where it's actually seems to be adjusting itself down is as you lose your muscle mass, right? So as you, as you age, you. I mean, I'm not saying it's, it's easy to maintain that muscle mass as you age. It's definitely more difficult. But if you could maintain that muscle mass and you're in your regular body weight and everything, your metabolism should stay very similar to what it's been, you know, through your earlier years. But that's where it gets tricky, right? It's like, okay, energy levels are certainly decreasing, right? Because like, obviously the body just doesn't work as well, as we age, right, Things start to slow down. You know, metabolic processes, enzymatic processes, whatever, all these things kind of start to slow. Also, our lifestyle change is huge. Right. We get busy time constraints, kids, as you know.

Right.

And our time commitment we have to give to our movement and to our fitness and to our ability to build muscle and stuff is probably decreased. So that's kind of the area you're going to want to focus on most is like, not necessarily feeling bad about the aging processes. How are you managing the aging process? Like, are you able to stay active? And again, like when I was 21, 22, I could go to the gym for three hours and like, whatever, go for a run after and be fine. Right now if I did that, I'd be in the, in my bed for four days recovering. You know, it's like I'm only 35, but like, it's just, you gotta learn to adjust over time as the body adjusts.

Right.

And I think, you know, so kind of that science has shown that if we can maintain our muscle mass and we can maintain activity levels doesn't necessarily mean it has to be high intensity or insane weight training or any, you know, hitting maxes every day or whatever anymore. But maintaining those levels of activity and training are really going to help us maintain our metabolic rate. And then obviously, you know, body size, muscle mass, fat mass, and, you know, whether you're male or female is going to make a difference on, you know, metabolic rate and stuff like that. But those things are pretty well accounted for in like a traditional, like calorie, you know, estimator, like a Mifflin Singer equation or something.

So, so in terms of metabolic adaptation, is there a sense of time that we, that a person needs to be at in terms of, you know, recovering from, you know, bad behavior, or I won't say bad because there's no morality, but more like less than desired, less than optimal behavior. Right. So is there some type of arbitrary time that we need to be, you know, timeline that we're paying attention to?

Yeah, I wish I could, I wish I could put a time on it, you know, that would be easy.

Yeah, we'd all be millionaires, like in three weeks.

Exactly.

Your metabolism is going to be good.

That's it. We're just gonna put you on a refeed diet for three months and after that you're just gonna start burning fat and building all this muscle. And again, that's, that's where the whole individuality piece comes into play.

Right.

Like, I forget what the. I should I shouldn't say, don't quote me on this because I'm on a podcast, but it's all right. But. Well, the, the, that Michigan starvation study, right where they put people, you know, they essentially made people like live in a room and treated them like they would be treated if they were like in an internment camp or whatever and starve them out at like 1200 calories a day. These people all lost like mass amounts of weight.

Right, right.

And got very malnourished. And their metabolisms, and that's what why they did it is so they could measure their metabolic rate and their dropped really quickly or quite drastically. And then majority of them had recovered within like I believe three to four months of like being refed. But again that's a short term study, right, where they were, they kind of starved these people out over the course of a few months and then their metabolism recovered over the course of a few months. You know, if I'm talking to a person that's been doing this for, I mean I see, I see like, especially like women that are doing like weight watchers and things like that. They've been doing this for 20 years. Like it's, it's really wild, right? So at this point they like, everything's adjusted, right? Like they're, they're, they're hunger, like, you know, their ability to actually consume the amount of food that they should be eating and all these things is really, really adjusted. So that's going to take a lot of longer to recover. Right. So I think that's again going to depend on the situation and on the person. So if you've just, you know, got yourself into a situation where, you know, you had a rough couple months and you didn't eat for a few months, you might be able to bounce back quickly. But if you've been doing this for 5, 10, 15 years, again, it's like you've been digging this hole for a long time. So I don't know how long it's going to take for us to fill it again, you know, but I think that's where, where again this is where the patience piece comes in. And I understand nobody wants to, no one wants to be patient in the process, but it's, you know, probably, probably more beneficial long term to do it.

So. Good. So now I think it's important too. I think, and when I'm talking to people, because this is the same thing as business building, right? Is that it's not linear. Learning is taught to us by school. We're educated, we are taught in our conditions to believe that everything's going to be linear.

But.

But the truth is most things that matter is not a linear experience when it comes to learning. So how do you get people on, you know, how, you know, and as a coach, I'll say this. How can you navigate the difference between this is biofeedback, this is the stuff that we, we just gotta be patient in the process. We need to stick to it versus like, oh, no, no, no. This is an indicator that what we have set up right now is not working and we need to readjust and assess. Assess it.

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I would say, especially in terms of the biofeedback. I mean, I really want people to be making pretty consistent progress in terms of hunger and appetite regulation, reduction of cravings, you know, mood improvements, all these things. So basically what I'm going to do for, you know, when we're measuring that stuff is if it's like an acute situation, I'm not going to worry about it, right? So if you were tired, you know, if you were tired on Thursday and Friday and you know, I talked to you because a lot of times people will message me, right? Oh, I feel tired the last couple days. I don't know what's going on. Maybe something's wrong with my food. And then, you know, you kind of do a little bit of digging, right? Well, how was your sleep? Did you change your exercise? Are you under more stress than usual? What's going on with work or kids or family or whatever, Right? So we always want to make sure that we're kind of taking account, like looking at the whole big picture, right? And if it's just more acute, like one off situations, then I, I tend to kind of sweep those under the rug at the beginning, right? It's just like, all right, hey, we all have those days where we wake up and we don't have a ton of energy, right? But if now we're running into the third day, fourth day, we're starting to feel hungry or cravings are starting to really kick in or something like that, then obviously, you know, I think at that point it's really time to make some kind of an adjustment, right? And then usually for me, the adjustment that I would make with somebody is I'm always going to gravitate toward like the renourishment process, right? So I mean, I guess it would be two ways. If someone's really like, then you would have to get into the diet, right? What are you doing? Are you eating healthy? Are you eating well? Have you been really overdoing it on sugar and calories and all this other stuff? If that's the case and you're feeling a little bit sluggish from that, then obviously we have to dial things back a little bit. But usually it's the opposite for me is where I'm seeing. All right, no, some things got in the way and you missed a few meals or you haven't been sleeping or whatever. So then I'm usually be. I'm always going to gravitate back toward the whole nourishment aspect. I'm just, I'm a massive believer in like the, the value of the actual nutrition you're getting. So like the, the power that just like having the right amount of like vitamins, minerals, antioxidants like polyphenols and all these different things that we can get from our food. The, the actual impact that those are going to have on our body and our, our wellness and our, you know, all of it.

Right.

Energy levels, sleep, stress reduction, management of hunger and cravings and all these things. Things. So usually I'll go back there and just say okay, well where can we implement a lot more food and a lot more nutrition?

Right.

And then that's usually where I'm getting back to like, well, hey, what can, where can we add these super high volume foods so we can really like increase the amount of food you're eating without maybe increasing, you know, without totally blowing out your calories. Right. So then that's where I'm going to get really into like recommending a lot of like lean proteins and like again I love like veggies and berries and even you know, good quality like, like carbohydrates.

Right.

It's, you know, all going to be super advantageous in terms of nutrition and you know, it's all pretty minor calorically. So that's usually where I'm gravitating toward with people.

I'm curious in your experience and opinion, how you, what are the levels of honesty that people are with themselves? How present are they to what is actually happening nutritionally in their. And nourish based in their day to day action? How present are people and what are some of the things. Because in my opinion I feel like we are all on autopilot. So you know, what are some of the things that you ask your clients or coaches can ask their clients to help them get present to what's actually happening?

Yeah, that's a, that's great. So I, I do, I mean on, I Do macro. Like, so with people that I work with, we. They have a food log. We count calories, we count macros. I use Chronometer app, which is awesome because it measures micronutrition as well. So we actually have the ability to go in there and look at like a weekly nutrition report or I mean, we can look at a report from anything from like a week to the year, but. And actually start to pinpoint on some of these things.

Right?

And it's not, you know, it's not perfect. I mean, they use really good nutrition databases on that app, and that's why I love it. But. But like, for the most part, it's going to start to maybe tip us off in some areas, right? So that. That us actually does, I think, help the people that I work with a lot, just with their. Their mindfulness. And it just brings it in the fort. Like, they can see it, right? Like, it's. It's there, it's listed, it's got numbers, it's got charts, it's got rings, whatever. You know, it's very, like, visual for people to see. So that is something that, you know, I guess really helps, like, the people that I work with is that we actually, like, these are things that I'm telling them right off the bat, like, hey, we're going to be focusing on not only like, yeah, we're going to be focusing on calories, we're going to be focusing on some macronutrition, but we're also really going to be food quality fol.

Right?

So I think that kind of sets the tone and that, you know, and that's kind of how I build out meal plans for people and how I recommend things to people is. Is that, you know, we always have food quality as being a major, I guess, like, importance in our day.

Right.

And then for like a coach, I mean, so I have. I have a little. I don't know what you want to call it, little saying or whatever I use. And I. It's really helped me as a coach just to get people thinking a little bit more about how to simply kind of go about it. Right. So obviously you're not always going to be tracking macros. You're not always going to be able to see your micronutrition every day or every meal or whatever. So I just use this little saying like minding your P's and Q's. And I think this is an easy one for coaches to tell a client is mind your p's and Q's, right? So our peas, our plants Our protein is number one. Right. I'm always going to recommend people be on a high protein diet all the time. And actually, you know, a lot of times we think like Americans are overeating on protein. From what I've seen, in my experience, most people are under eating on protein and then plants is the second one.

Right.

So in terms of food, I got other ones, but those are kind of the two big ones in terms of our food.

Right.

Is that we want to make sure doesn't matter where you are, right. I don't, I don't care if you're at home, I don't care if you're out for a meal, I don't care where you are. You can still focus on getting. Does that meal have protein and what's the quality of it?

Right, right.

And then is there some kind of plant associated with it? So did I get a, you know, when I went out for a meal, did I get a big salad and then. Or in a double order of protein or did I have a spaghetti with melted cheese on it? You know, like that's going to kind of deter, but it's, it's easier for people to think about it that way. So those are our peas or our protein and our plants. And then our cues is the quality and the quantity. So I tell everybody like, as long as you're paying attention to the protein in the plants, the quality is there. So you've already got that one kind of knocked out.

Right.

So if the focal point of, of all of your meals is a, is a heavy dose of protein and a whole as many plants as you can consume, essentially, you know, then our quality is taken care of. And it also allows for us to have an increased quantity of that meal as well.

Right.

Because I want people eating as much as they can possibly eat within the parameters of the goals that they're trying to achieve.

Right.

So I think when we pay attention to kind of these, these two, I guess, like biggest rocks in my opinion of, of nutrition, then that, that really opens up like it's going to really improve the quality and it's also going to allow us to eat more in terms of quantity. And then when we are eating these things that aren't necessarily along the lines of the P's and Q's, then the quantity just has to be a little bit lower. That's essentially kind of the deal, right. Is that when, you know, as long as we're paying attention to our protein and plants, that gives us a really good opportunity to have a high quality and A good amount of quantity. And if we're not paying attention to that, we know that the quality is not as great. So we can reduce the quantities a little bit.

You know, know, Adam, this has been amazing. You just. That is so concise, so simple, straightforward and easy for people to just really sink their teeth into for a lack of a better back of a letter metaphor. Right. So thank you so much for pouring into me and to us today. I really appreciate it. This has been really insightful. I learned a lot. So for those of you who want to connect with you and go deeper and talk more with you in and your work, where are some of the best places I can on them?

Yeah, I think. Well, and thanks for having me on. I'll start there. I appreciate it. It was a great, great chat. And yeah, I mean, hopefully my thing is I try not to make nutrition too difficult. Like, I try to make it as simple as. Especially as simple as we need to make it.

Right.

Like, sometimes it gets a little intricate, it gets a little bit involved. But, you know, the less we have to make it that way and the more we can just focus on the stuff that's kind of been working since the beginning of time for us, you know, I think the easier it can be.

Right.

So, yeah, And I appreciate you having me on to talk about it because I can talk nutrition all day, so I love it.

Yeah.

And then. Yeah. So for anybody who wants to. To find me, my email is ar nutrition.net so there I've got like, obviously all, you know, I've got actually quite a few free resources and stuff on there as well. So I've got all the coaching programs and stuff that I offer. I also have like a free course on mastering your macros and then also like a summer success planning package, which I'll probably quickly turn over to a fall success package. And then social media. I mean, mostly I'm on. I'm on Instagram, right. So that's Adam underscore Ross underscore RD. And I'm trying to get myself into TikTok. I posted a video yesterday that got like zero views. After the first, like six hours, I was like, so if anyone wants to help me out on TikTok, it's Adam Ross underscore RD. And then I also do have a free Facebook group. So if you just message me on Instagram, I can send the links for the Facebook group or if you grab any of my free resources, I think it's going to send you the link for the Facebook group anyway.

So love it, and we'll be sure to link all of that up in the show notes. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

No problem. Thank you.

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