The Whole Brain Approach To Pain Management with Trent McEntire

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 202. Today I'm sitting down with Trent McIntyre, and we're discussing the whole brain approach to pain management. Are you ready? Let's get started. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner, and this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance and movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up, coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and if this is the first time you're hanging out with me today, welcome. I'm super pumped that you're here today. I have a very special guest, Trent McIntyre, who's been helping people gain back their mobility for the last two decades. He's about to tell us a powerful story of being born with a mild form of cerebral palsy and how he experienced pain and stiffness every single day from the time that he was a child. The methods that Trent has discovered to repair his own body also became the foundation for what would be his life's work. And he's about to get into it today in this episode. So without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. What's up, Trent? Thanks so much for joining me on the show today. How are you?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Beverly.

I'm super pumped to get into our discussion today. So for those of us who have not had the pleasure of working with you, learning from you, I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

Yeah, that's quite a story. I'm happy to share it. So I've been. I've been helping people restore mobility and get their lives back for about 25 years, and it really branched off from my own story and my own recovery and rehab. And it really, it's like my own journey became what I would then share with my clients, which happens a lot. But for me, it wasn't my intention, it wasn't where I started. So I was actually in college pursuing a dance degree to become a professional dancer. And that was really like, my way out of my small little town. I. I was always athletic, I played basketball, I had some talent in dance, so I went to school, got scholarship, I Was like, okay, I'm go someplace and get out of my small little town and do something with my life. And I get into it a couple years, and I wake up one morning and I just can barely walk to the shower. Like, hobble, hobble to the shower with such pain from the knees down that I couldn't even describe. It was just like, wow, this is. This feels like career ending. Like, I don't know if I can keep going. This is tremendous. And. And it didn't make sense to me. And of course, I'm a poor college student, so I didn't have resources for any kind of therapies or appointments or consultations or anything like that to kind of figure out what was going on. And all the advice I was given was, like, crazy advice that was like, that's just not. That's not gonna help me. Like, putting Icy Hot on it. That's not really the thing here. Like, okay, this is like a pretty serious situation. And. But I also knew, like, this was. This is my future. This is how I was going to make something in my life. So I was really at a place where I needed to find a solution. Well, I happened to be home for Christmas, and I was just complaining to my mom. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I have so much pain and tightness from the knees down. It's pretty unbearable in the morning. I kind of warm up through the day, but in the morning I can barely walk, and I just don't get it. And she said, well, Trent, that's because you were born with cerebral palsy. And I was like, wait, say what? And I was 19, and I thought, I don't know what that is, and why didn't you tell me? And all of the angry feelings you have having something being hidden, it turns out it was probably the best thing that could have happened to me because I never had any kind of label to know that my tightness and restriction that I'd always felt in my life was the result of something, was a result of having a head injury at birth. Now, I only had a class one, so there are lots of people with a class one that don't even know it. But for those people that aren't familiar with the. With the situation is that, you know, you wouldn't know by looking at me that I had anything wrong at a Class 1, but I had tremendous limitation. I could barely bend my ankles. I had limitation. And my. My mom was like, yeah, do you remember when you were three? And I'm Like, I don't remember three, but I'm gonna listen to the story. And she's like, yeah, the doctors cast your heels down to the ground. Because I learned how to walk on the balls of my feet because my Achilles was so short that I physically wasn't able to put my heels down. Now, there are toe walkers that can put their heels down, but I was one that literally had no range of motion in my ankle. So they cast my heels to the ground to force the Achilles to stretch. And then I had this memory because I have an older brother, and anybody who has an older brother knows that the torture they give you is. It's part of their fun growing up. And I had this memory of having casts on my legs and my brother putting garbage bags on them and throwing in a snowbank, because it was hysterical to put the guy with two casts on his legs in the snowbank and not be able to get out of it, you know? And so I was like, yeah. And so I really. That was, like, the moment where I started to investigate for myself how I could recover from this. That was, like, the defining moment of.

When I look back, I mean, I have so many questions, so I'll just start with, you know, dancing. Okay. So.

Yeah.

How so? I mean, I know that this was an event, that this is clearly something that was, you know, very transformational for your career, but what was that transition like? So, just for context, I was in musical theater, so. So I actually came to New York so that I could be, you know, so that I can. So that I could pursue musical theater. And. And I'm very happy with how things, like, I felt like the decisions were my own, as opposed to something like this, where it almost feels like you took the autonomy of choice away from me in this moment. So what was that like for you?

Well, I was. I was. I was really upset. But then I can imagine the reality was this is. I've always been really independent. So when I went back to school, I was like, I gotta do something about this. And I. And so I did. And my training and my background in college also had significant movement therapies and modalities. So there was Bartenius and Laban and Feldenkrais and all these movement patterning modalities. That was a part of my training. Kinesiology, applied kinesiology, anatomy, like, all these pieces. And so I was like, well, what resources do I have? What do I have that. That I can look at and apply to myself and basically turn myself into my own therapist? Like, right Now. And so I started coming up with exercises and developing, you know, a strategy to recover. And some things made it worse, some things made it better. And the ones that made it better, I kept. And the things that made it worse, I threw away. And I just kept journaling what would work until I developed a routine that I could recover. And I rehabbed my injury. I finished. Finished college strong and got my BFA in dance and then dance professionally. And it would not have been possible had I not like, really applied myself of, how can I. How can I take this work and put it together to rehab my own injury?

So you did get to fulfill your day, not have to be the end. That is so amazing.

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous, actually, because, you know, I. I had. I was in a great program with people that were smart, but nobody could help me. Nobody's like, oh, here's what. Here's where you go. Here's how you see, here's what you'll do. It was like, eh, I don't know, it was like, icy Hot. Use some ice. Like, good luck. I mean, it was. It was insane. And so there are other suggestions that were just wild. And I'm like, yeah, that's just not. My gut says that's not a solution.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so can you start to walk us through the process of what you began to do to try and rehab?

Yeah. So it's like, okay, so stretching is supposed to be good. Okay, so let's try stretching. Let me try every stretching technique that I know. Let's just go through like, every. Every book, every technique, every training that exists and apply them. I'm like, okay, that doesn't work. Like, I'm just as tight and has just as much pain the next day. It's not about, I'm not flexible enough. I'm not stretching enough. It's like, okay, while I was doing Pilates and like, okay, that's making me stronger, but only in like, these ways and not really like, helping my movement and these movement modalities, those are good, but they're not really making me stronger. So what I did is I'm like, what if I applied better movement patterning with strengthening? And so I started to put together as my. As my like, equation. It's got to be something that I'm going to get stronger. And it's got to be a pattern that I don't own that I'm trying to acquire. Now. Today we call that leveraging how our brains are plastic. And we know that there's a whole science around that. Then there wasn't literature published that you could access. So I taught for years leveraging brain plasticity with me and my clients before I knew there was a language for it. And so when books started coming out, I'm like, oh, I should read these. These are probably going to be good for my, my career and what I do. And as I'm reading them, I'm like, I, I. This is what I do. Like, literally, this is the, the vocabulary and the science and the proof that what I'm doing and experiencing was real when I rehab my own injury and is now real with my clients. And it's really the defining difference between me teaching what you might think is Pilates and what somebody else might think call Pilates. So I, you know, I kind of package it up and I use Pilates as my vehicle because people can kind of get on board a little bit with it. But what I'm really doing is figuring out where patterns are missing and filling them in just like I did with myself.

I mean, that's incredible. So now what you're doing now, are you still dancing or are you only.

No, I'm not dancing. My, my extracurriculars these days is, I coach volleyball, and so I have a college team that I coach. So I can apply the same things with other athletes. Because I was an athlete, and I was an athlete before I danced and dancing is definitely being an athlete. But I was, I, I stopped dancing before my body, like, like really fell apart. So I could, I could continue, you know, quality of life and not just give every part of my body to that profession. And I also have a family to support and things like that.

Sure. I mean, people, people. And in my opinion, people underestimate the, the what is required of a dancer's body. And that's outside of, you know, injuries. Like, it's just very demanding sport.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the expectation is. Is significantly high once you get to a. A level where you're being hired for something. You know, it's like you, you have to put in so many hours to keep your body at a place. And the contracts you sign, like, your body will look like this. It will weigh this much. You'll have these abilities, and when you don't, you're breaking your contract. Essentially. That's part of your job.

Yeah, it's pretty intense. And then the worst part about it, in my opinion, is that it's this feeling of like, well, if it's not used, there's someone else that's in that line. And the hundreds of people are in that line to take that contract. So that's why they can get away with things that are unhealthy.

Yep. Yep.

This is amazing. So now that you've created this methodology, essentially, how are you applying it to your clients? Once. Now you rehabbed yourself, how did you start to apply it to your clients? Because we all know it's one thing to do it ourselves, but then to actually help our clients have these results, it's different.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I. I got contacted by a Pilates studio they had just opened. And I'm in Michigan at this point. It was like maybe the second studio in the. In the state, you know, and they're like, we'd love you to come here and teach. And I'm like, well, I don't really teach Pilates the way you would know it. I. I have this thing called the McIntyre Method that I was calling it just because it was a very different approach. I said, as long as you're cool with me doing that in your space. I joined the team. They're like, sure, no problem. And so then what I did is I just talked to all my clients. I said, you know, I'm doing something a little different. Basically, I'm asking you permission to be a guinea pig. If you're willing to be a guinea pig and work with me, you'll get results you're looking for, and then I can learn and talk to you along the way to see about why it's working and what's going on, and spend the time pulling apart what I'm doing and looking at it, get a little distance from it to go like, what is it that I'm really doing and why is it working and how is it helping people so that I could really learn. So that was a. I did the app for years just to really get my head wrapped around, like, really clear and specific differences.

And what did you discover?

Well, I discovered that this is when the literature came out about the brain being plastic and brain patterning and movement patterning. I was like, that's what I do. I've been working. I've been leveraging the brain the whole time. It's all brain based. I've been. I've had a whole brain approach talking about sensory input and having a balanced approach to sensory input, not just making muscles, strong and flexible joints, which is a lot of training. A lot of professionals live in that proprioception category. Like, they're really just only in the muscles and the joints and they don't go to Higher order systems. And so because I was going to higher order systems, I was doing eye tracking and head movement. I'm addressing the real balance system and addressing how the brain prioritizes information we take in through the eyes and leveraging that. So I was, I was addressing the whole brain approach, which is what I just call it, the whole brain approach. Because when you're just making muscles strong, you're only, you're missing a whole part of the information you could feed the brain to improve movement, which is so powerful and awesome.

Now is this something that you, you. The whole brain approach, do you use this approach for everyone?

For everybody? Yes. I do it with every client that I work one on one in a group with professionals, with my team. My team, when they practice volleyball, it's a whole brain approach. Their warm ups are whole brain approach. And now when they first meet me, they're like, what is going on? Because they played volleyball for 15 years and they're like, this is not how I remember my volleyball warm ups. It's like, right, because you've only addressed your muscles to warm up. You haven't addressed your senses. And guess what? You're jumping and turning and flying across the court. You have to get your senses on board so you can do that efficiently and keep your body together and have awareness of your court. So you. Yeah, it's across the board. That's my standard for everybody.

I love it. So now, what are some of the biggest differences that you have noticed when people use the whole brain approach?

Oh, recovery is dramatically faster. This is like the, the. Yeah, it's like with, without that, we could do the same leg exercises, the same breathing, the same abdominal, the same arms over and over and over again. But it turns out the problems in the eyes, with their tracking, with their range of motion, with their convergence, and you're not going to improve because your eyes are trumping everything else and giving you bad information. So your compensations are coming from weakness in your senses. And so we can get changes to happen very quickly that last, because once you get the senses on board and you reinforce them, it's powerful. And your brain's like, okay. And typically there's a big deficit there, so you're filling in a pretty significant deficit that's just constantly informing compensation.

Oh, wow, that's fascinating. I'm also curious. Did you ever notice that there was a decline in injuries? Like, was there injury prevention? Because I feel like if the senses are. All the senses are turned on, that you're able to be more flexible when things are coming at you.

Absolutely. Part of the injury prevention is awareness of your surroundings. So you don't you. Well, you will not inadvertently put yourself into a situation because you'll see it coming. You'll see that you know there's an athlete there. You don't want to step on them and break your ankle. You'll see things you wouldn't normally see. Your peripheral vision improves and then your processing and your brain improves and your reaction time improves. And so you're just more efficient. And injury happens so often when you're, when there's a compensation, when you're wasting energy, when you're not being efficient, you know, your body gets tired, your brain gets tired of processing all the compensations and you get injured and you have overuse because you've overused something, because you're compensating and the joint's like, nope, I'm done. And then you think it's a joint issue. So then you do joint exercises. But turns out, yeah, most people are.

Always treating the symptom and not getting to cause.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's really fascinating. So you notice that the recovery time is better. People are preventing injuries.

Anything else. Here's what I do. I promise everybody that I work with, one of three things will happen. I promise you. You're going to get better, you're going to get worse, you're going to stay the same. I promise. Okay? And I do that because I need people to own the process themselves and to show up and participate. I'm not here to fix you, but I can show you, I can give you the information, I can give you the tool and I need you to participate in that process. Because if you know that I expect one of those three things to happen, then you'll also know that if it doesn't work or it stays the same, I'm going to problem solve it. We're going to find a pathway to make it right. And because they know this is a problem solving situation, as opposed to I already know what you need situation, then if something is not quite working, they can say something, I can see something. And like, hey, let's, let's try this instead. Let's see if this is an option. And so then I use before and after testing to verify and validate what's going on for them. I never go, this is what you need. There, you're all better now. Instead I go, okay, I hear what's going on in your body here. Where your limitations are, where your pain is, where restrictions, whatever is going on, have Them walk around so I can see their gait, have them feel their gate, have them do a couple movements that they can feel that I can see. Okay, now let's do this whole brain approach. Let's, let's get your senses involved. Let's really take this, this, this information to your brain in a powerful fast way and then retest, take your walk, take these movements and see what happens in just three or four minutes. And because they can see the difference and feel the difference, and then I can also measure it. We have both qualitative measurement, which is super important, and quantitative. So if you gotta be faster, you're an athlete that needs speed. We can measure it, we can measure and whatever it is you need to make faster, if you need to get to the ball faster, if you need to swing your bat faster, you gotta run faster. We'll just measure that, play some games, come back and remeasure. And so I'm a huge, I'm just a huge fan of before and after because this isn't about me fixing somebody that's so boring. Like, I couldn't do that for 25 years. Like, I just, like, I'm out, you know, problems, problem solving. I love it. And the, the people that I work with that figure out like, oh, he's always going to problem solve it. No matter what I'm feeling, no matter what's going on for me, I can just rely on him to problem solve it and I don't have to worry about it and I don't have to make it perfect. If something goes sideways, we'll steer it back on track without a question.

I love that. Can you go deeper on qualitative measurements and quantitative measurements? Measurements?

Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, you know, you go to a trainer or a therapist or PT or ot, whatever it is, and you think about quantitative. Like, okay, we need you to lift more, more weights at more reps. We need you to be able to do three flights of stairs instead of two flights of stairs. You know, you can measure like a distance, a poundage of weight, a number of repetitions. We're measuring a number for qualitative. I want to know, like, are you sleeping better at night? Are you more comfortable in your chair? Can you lift your grandkids? Can you play longer? Can you do activities you couldn't do before? You know, is it, is it showing up that you're happier because you can do these things like your quality of life is improving? Yeah, you could move your arm up and down before, but now it feels Easier, it feels lighter, it's not as stuck. It doesn't create pain in your neck when you do it. You know, it's all the, all the pieces that affect how you feel during the movement, how you feel during your life.

Do you find that people have a hard time associating the whole brain approach work to their results or to their, to their quality of life results?

Do they think, oh, just, just at first because we can get, I can get changes in like two to five minutes. Like we can measure them, maybe we can make them measurable. And so because of that at first they're like, what did you do to me? Like, wait, like wait a minute, it's only been like three minutes and my neck doesn't hurt anymore and I'm taking bigger steps. I can stand on one leg. Like, what did you do? Well, when there's a deficit in your senses, when your eyes are so weak or imbalanced or your inner ear has bad information because your neck is so tight that you can't actually move your head to give good information to how to balance, there's a huge deficit. So you feel that deficit in. And it feels like magic. So at first they're like, this is magic. And then they start to trust it that it's actually just giving better information to your senses.

That is truly amazing.

It's fun. It's always got to be fun, by the way, because that's how your brain stays curious and stays interested in whatever's coming next. And you know, I'm sure like you work with a client that or a patient that is got something really severe and life altering going on, it's still got to be fun. Otherwise you're not going to get them on board to do the hard work they've got to do. I mean, I have a new client that I started working with last week. I've seen her twice and she had already done so much emotional work before she saw me that she was able to take on board the work that I was offering her without having to be like, I don't understand how to be in my body. I don't understand. Like she, you know, it's just like, it wasn't confusing. She was like, okay, this feels better, that feels different. And she was tracking with me. And it goes from being like, I don't really get it into two sessions later going, yeah, I see how this is coming together. So it doesn't take long for people, for people to get there.

So good. So can you walk us through if you don't Mind your assessment. Like, how do you. How do you take a new patient or a new potential patient and take them through a whole brain assessment?

Yeah, so I want to see how they walk. And I. I don't do a lot of. Like, my gait analysis is as casual as possible for the client or the patient because nobody wants to be stared at, you know, so I try to make it about them dropping into their body. When I'm doing gait analysis, it's like, okay, just take a walk down the back. And I want you to think about, like, how it feels, how your steps feel, how your hips are feeling, how what movement you feel, what movement you feel like is not there that you want to have there. You know, just the general qualities. And they're. They're thinking about that. And then I'm watching and making my analysis as well. And then I watch them walk in from the parking lot because it's a. It's a sort of a mirrored building so they can't see me watching them. So I can see how they're walking when they're not being watched, how they open doors, how they hold their purse or their bag or, you know, how they ride their bike in whatever it might be to get an idea of what their normal movement looks like. But then also I want to see like, okay, let's do a leg exercise. Let's just say we're doing something that is like, leg mobility or leg strength. Like, all right, I see there's a weakness there. I have a choice. Do I do more leg exercises or do I go to your eyes? Do I go to your vestibular system to see if it's actually a problem there? So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go higher order and then come back and repeat the same exercise and go, hey, get better. I'm not going to beat you up with a whole bunch of leg exercises when what you needed was an iron exercise. What you needed was some eye tracking or some. Or some VOR or, you know, something that is. That is more speaking to the brain in a way that's going to make your whole system come together. Because if you get stuck in that muscle and that. That leg exercise, we're going to make those legs strong. Like, okay. I mean, you'll make them strong, but they're going to be dysfunctional and strong. They're not going to. It's not going to bring it all together. You need it to come together neurologically, not just in those muscles.

So what are you Looking for in your eye tests that you perform?

Yeah. So at a simple level, eye tracking, being able to have the eyes do some smooth tracking, have them do jumping so they can go from target A to target B across the room, or depth perception, far away and close. I mean, I figured, like, let me just back up for a second because you got to know something. I couldn't read a book until I was 33. So, like, the second part of this story is that I would fall asleep when I would read. And reading was so hard. And, like, going back, you know, I failed first grade because of my reading. And when I was in third grade, my teacher was like, oh, you really struggle with reading. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you more reading to do.

I'm only laughing because I have a first grader right now who's battling with math. And the teacher's like, let's do more math. And I'm like, no, not more math.

What's wrong with you?

Anyway, keep going.

Well, so I was. I was at a conference. Well, before I got to the conference. Here's what happened. I will talk about the books that I read with my clients, but I'm not reading my books at that time. I was listening to the audiobook, but I would say I was reading because I had so much shame that reading was so hard for me that I would call my audiobooks reading a book. And I said, oh, there's this. This is great series. It's really for, like, young adults. But it's so fun that I really enjoy reading it. And I said, I got to get the next book before I go on my trip to California. And she's like, well, which one are you on? And I told her. And so the next time she came in, she brought me the copy of the book. And I was like, oh, gosh. Like, oh, thank you so much. Like, I'm not going to read this, but now I have to download the audio, listen to the audio on my trip so when I come back, I can report back. I felt all of this, like, pressure to, like, make her happy that I read the book she brought me, right? And so I took the book with me. I didn't read the book. There's no way. I can't read on planes. It made me nauseous at the time. And so then I went to this conference, and I happened to meet a vision therapist who did a couple eye exercises with me. And it, like, I went back to my booth and a friend had stopped by and left me a note because they'd missed me. And I read like, I've never read like my. Like it was on fire. I was like, wow, I need better understanding of the importance of eye tracking and eye convergence. And I was already working with a whole brain approach and I was doing eye tracking, but not with like direct focus to like really see how far I could take it with movement. Because vision therapists do eye tracking all the, all the time. But it's not related to movement. It's not related to recovery of injury. It's not really. It's like in a box. It's like an own little thing, as if it's not related to being an extension of our brain. Her eyes are an extension of our brain. We know that. So, so then what happens is I read the book on the plane on the way back, didn't get nauseous once. I'm like, this is amazing. And I get home and I'm telling my wife, I'm like, I got to get the rest of these books. She's like, oh, you mean the audiobooks? I'm like, no, I'm going to go to the bookstore and purchase the rest of these books. She's like, who are you? What did you do with my husband? Because you don't read. And because when I was in college, I would get up at like 6 or 7 in the morning and read my books before class, standing up to force myself to not fall asleep. And I've since discovered that, you know, falling asleep is a sign that, you know, basically one eye is doing all the work because your eyes don't converge on the same spot because their eyes weren't converging. Your brain basically says to itself like, well, let's just not see. Let's suppress the image of one eye and we'll just use one. The other eye to read. Well, it's exhausting to suppress that image and to use the other eye to read. And so that's what make you kind of fall asleep. And so when my eyes could work together and I could have them both see the same thing at the same time. Precisely. Think of like two flashlights where the, where the lights are exactly aligned, like they're stacked as opposed to being slightly off and having each eye see its own thing. So when my eyes got aligned, then I could see and I could read. And it was a life changing. And so that's when I'm like, well, what resources are available? How can I bring this to my clients? And I'm like, oh, the Resources are really boring. They're really dry. They're really ugly. Like, they're not fun. And some of the simplest tools to make your eyes, to improve your eyes are. They're boring. But also you have to have a license to buy them simple. Like little sticks with faces on top of them, like, really simple things. I'm like, that seems like a weird obstacle. So I'm like, I'm gonna make my own. So I invented. I invented the Brain Speed Ball to help my clients with doing eye tracking and vestibular exercises and work on the VOR reflex and. And make it a fun game and make it approachable for people, because everybody needs to exercise their eyes. Everybody needs to exercise their vestibular system. But how boring is it to make it, like, dry? And like, even my clients that bring in their homework that they were given from the vision therapist. The vision therapist is very. Skill. Very knowledgeable, like, really good at what they do. But that's not about movement. It's not about fun for them. And so they bring in their homework. And I'm like, hey, do you do this homework? Oh, no, I hate it. Well, they're giving you the right homework for the right situation. But, like, what if we could make it fun? And so I'm like, I'm just going to make a ball. And. And I made this inflatable ball, and I put A through Z and 1 through 12 on it. And then I had it manufactured. I was like, I'm going to solve my own problem again, this has got to happen. We got to have a solution that anybody can play that is a game and is approachable.

And I'll tell you just from my own context and from my own. My own experience, anytime I've done any type of. I work, like EMDR or any type of cognitive, I work, it's draining. It is so hard. If because it's something you're not used to, it will energetically zap me.

Yep. Yep. What happens is that those therapies I found are often done at too high a level. They're too hard. And so what I've spent a lot of time doing and gamifying this is how. How can you down level this? When I work with professionals in a leadership group where I help them, like, how far can you down level this? And that's the hardest thing. Cause everybody can make it harder. That's easy. Making it harder for a per. For a professional, a therapist, a trainer, a coach, like, you can make it harder. Can you make it easier? Can you make it Easier than that? Can you make it easier than that? And by making it as down level as possible, you really start to understand how wide that continuum goes. So when you say, you know, it's. It's exhausting. Well, it doesn't have to be easy. We don't have to make it so easy that it's, you know, never challenging. We have to find a way to make it challenging enough. For me, with the ball, it's like drop the ball once in a while. So it's challenging enough because if you're always catching the ball and you're always doing everything right, it's not hard enough. But if you're getting a headache and it's creating problems, then it's too hard. Yes. You know, we got to challenge the brain. We got to build new patterns. But it's so, so often your story is so similar. I hear all the time, it's like, yeah, like, it hurts. It's exhausting. I want to go take a nap now.

Yes. That's how I felt. I was like, oh, my gosh, I have to go pick up my kids at the bus, but I need to sleep, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think too, like I say in love, because I recognize this in myself as well, is that the need to make it difficult or the. Or the desire to make it difficult is coming from a place of. I want my people to get results.

Oh, for sure.

So I know that it's, you know, it's definitely a nuanced conversation in terms of, like, how simple can you make it without sacrificing results.

Yeah, yeah. What I find is that, you know, when you find that you've made it too easy, well, now you know how what too easy is also so you know, the two ends for them. Too hard, too easy. Find something in the middle, and then it makes it clearer you're not just guessing and sort of like aiming in.

The dark right now. How. How long does it take for adaptations to stick with your clients?

It's. This is where I said, people are like, it's magic. What'd you do? Because it's rare that they go back. It's more commonplace that they stick. I'll tell you a story. We had a gentleman who had a traumatic brain injury. He was on a motorcycle, and he was going 50 miles an hour, head first at a 45 degree angle into a cement wall. Broke like 22 bones. They decided that the bones would be better off healing in their new shape than to refracture and to realign everything. And when I met him to work with him. He was just a couple days post. Any walking device, crutches, walker, wheelchair, like, all that stuff. He was. He was just. Just beginning to walk on his own. And he. He describes himself in walking as if he was a drunk penguin. And so he kind of like waddled side to side and would hold the wall to keep security. And I was like, okay, what have you been doing? And we go through the whole background of all the therapies, and it's like, okay, so we're gonna play a game. And so I got at the brain speedball and we played a game, and in under 10 minutes, he was walking like nothing was wrong. It was really amazing. And like I said before, like, I promise it's going to get better, it's going to get worse, it's going to stay the same. I don't know until we do it. I'm not promising you that this is going to be the fix, but I'm here to find the fix. So it's like, let's try this. Let's see if it works. So when he's walking normal, I'm just like. I still get goosebumps. I was just like, oh, my gosh. This is just. This is so amazing because now this is a step closer to him going back to work and recovering at a level that his quality of life can significantly improve. And so he went off and he went home and was, like, excited to his parents about what had happened. And they're like, yeah, that's great, that's great. We're really happy for you, but we'll see if it lasts when you get up tomorrow. We'll see. And he got up and he's still walking normal, what his normal would be. And it never went back. And that was then a domino that tips him into then going on a trip to national parks by himself, camping in a tent, and just going from national park to national park to, like, regain his independence. It's just, like, blew me away, you know, like, that one thing like that. So when going back to quality of life, like, he was able to test his abilities and build on them in such a profound way.

I mean, that is incredible. That brings tears to my eyes how amazing that is. Because what that was happening is, is not only are you giving them quality of life back, you're giving them the hope that they could have that type of life again.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

It's special. It's a special relationship, and it's a special situation to be part of.

No wonder you're doing this for 25 years.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, because sometimes the work can be mundane.

Yeah. For sure.

Even if you're doing something that you love.

Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think the thing that's kept the freshest for me is I've been willing to work with the people that nobody wants to work with. I'm like, oh, okay. Like, we had a gentleman who. Who wheeled himself in. He's paraplegic. And, like, my team, like, scattered. They're like, I do not want this. And I'm like, I can't wait. Like, let's see what he can feel. Let's see what we can change, you know? And so I get excited about that because I think that there's so many. So many opportunities for discovery of capabilities in people that weren't taking enough risk to find. And I don't mean risk that makes their safety in question. I mean taking a risk against what might be professional norms to discover something. So I like to take the risk to see what we can discover.

That's amazing. So this was going to actually bring me to. My next question is, how do people find you? Like, what is it you said? I'm. I'm going to take the patients that people don't want to. To take. So are you. How are people discovering you? Have they, like, exhausted all possibilities and.

Like, yeah, yeah, I have. The people that have been everywhere and seen everybody, and they're like, I'm not better. Like, this is not. There's. I know I could be better. I know they could feel better. I could move better. And then they get referred. It's. It's nine times out of 10, it's a referral, and they've had a conversation. They've kind of shared their frustrations with somebody, and the person's like, you know what? You should go see Trent. And then we have a conversation. Because I have to work with people that are a good fit, and not just for me, but that I'm a good fit for them, because I'm not. I'm not a fit for everybody. Because if you really. If taking that chance and kind of getting outside of the box is too scary for you, I might be a lot for you, you know, but if you're ready, if, like, you're at this place where it's like, yeah, I can't lift my grandkids, and they're four, like, this is not okay. And I'm not. I'm not so old that that should be a problem. I'm not 95. Not lifting my grandkids, I'm 62 and can't lift my grandkids. Like that's a problem. So, yeah, I just feel like I've always believed in potential and it's so often that, that people will fight against the idea that as an adult that you still have potential. As a 40 year old, as a 50 year old, as a 60 year old, as an 80 year old, you still have potential. Yes, you do. Because your brain is plastic. Yes, you do, because you can make new patterns. And, and I find that sometimes they can share and they can borrow my belief in that potential until they can find it themselves. But I think that's what drives me, that's the energy behind what I'm doing is I just, I believe it could be changed. So why not try?

Right? Right, right. So good. What type of pain are people coming. What type of pain do people have when they're coming to you?

I mean, you name it. So it could be low back pain. It could actually be like a spinal surgery, recovering from a stroke and limitations that come with that. I have class three cerebral palsy, Ms. parkinson's. I mean, literally, like every symptom and condition you can think of and joint replacements, you know, that's, that's a, that's a really fun one because they, once they like, oh, you can take steps and drive, okay, you're done. You're on your own, right? Like you're 80% better and the rest will heal. And that's really important. That's a really important thing. Thing that like, okay, you're well enough to go like live your life, but then your body has to understand like how to behave with a, with a joint replacement. Now you don't, you have less nerve connection there. You have, you have foreign parts and they weigh differently than your bones do. And now your gate's different and now your hip hurts because that leg's heavier or all the things that can happen. So yeah, you name it.

Oh, that's so good. That's so good. That's amazing. Okay, so I will, I do want to ask you this one thing in terms of, of if a trainer or coach or a rehab clinician wants to learn more about working with eyes and work and working with whole brain approach. Like where are some of the best places that they.

Yeah, so there's two resources I'll give you. So one resource is really speaks directly to the professional and that is the movement gap.the dot com. And the movement gap is that place that people fall in when they're done with the therapies, they're done with whatever the medical profession can help them with, but they have a restored quality of life. They can't do the thing that they want to do. And so many people fall into that gap. So the movement gap really has content that speaks to the professionals and the people that are in that gap and how they. How they get supported. The other resource I'd give you is fire up your brain.com and that really is a site for everybody. That's where I feature the Brain Speedball and talk about different programs for different populations and how the games work and how important the senses are and recovering and improving these. These various issues.

Okay, great. And these are your resources, right?

Yes. Oh, yes. Okay, good.

Okay, good. I was going to say, do you have a certification? Are you going to start a certification?

Yeah. Well, I'll give you a glimpse into the bigger vision for this. So I'm about to release two new programs that I'm just super excited about. I have a concussion recovery program that I'm releasing, and I have a Parkinson's program that I'm releasing. And what will happen is that Parkinson's program will become a certification that professionals can take and then be part of a network that provide special classes and events nationally so that people with Parkinson's or their. Their caretakers and loved ones can come to a series of classes or an event and have somebody who understands how to use the brain speedball, how to work with the senses and give them something that's fast, simple, and easy and fun to do at home and to help them be social. Because that becomes one of the issues with Parkinson's is they. They have less and less social socialization as they go. So that for me, the vision is like, I can only touch so many people myself, but there are so many professionals that have such heart and passion and knowledge and desire to be that helper that I want to help mobilize and connect people to that. So you'll then be able to then find these coaches on the Fire your brain website. So if you are that person, you know, let's say you or your. Your loved one has Parkinson's, you can find a coach, or you or your kids have adhd, you can find a coach. You know, all the conditions that we deal with. You have this connection where you're not by yourself and the solution is really affordable, it's really fast, it's super easy, and you don't have to, like, take on a mountain of knowledge to learn how to use it.

So good. So Amazing. And I'm so excited for that. I can't wait to see that come to fruition. That's going to be amazing. All right, last question. Last question, I promise. Because you were mentioning, you know, Parkinson's and how sometimes that can be very challenging to be in a social situation. I'm just curious. Do this. The do the techniques. Do they all. Can they also apply to someone who has extensive stemming, like someone who's autistic, and they have.

Okay, let me tell you a story, because this is, like. This is my other goosebump moment. I just. I love the story so much because it was just. It just happened. It wasn't even a measurement. We were testing. Okay. Because I do, like I said, a lot of before and after testing to see what's changing, what's improving. But I had a colleague who was like, you know, I was at a conference, and she said, I'd love you to work with my daughter. She's 13 and she's autistic. She's on the spectrum, and I think it'd be really good for her and the sensory integration and the sensory training. We work with her. I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to make it about her autism or a label or sensory integration. Let's make it about something she loves. She's like, well, she loves to dance. And I'm like, okay, listen, like, I got you. Like, let's make it about. Let's make it about that. So bring her. Bring her by the booth, and I'll work with her and help her with her dance, like, in quotes, right? And see what else can happen as a result of it. So she came up, and I was like, you know, what? Is your dance teacher just, like, always telling you you need to improve or fix? Because that's. Dance teachers are good at that. You know, you're never. You're never fast enough, good enough, high enough, whatever. Okay. So she's like, yeah, my dance teacher is always telling me that I'm looking down when I'm doing my jumps and that I don't jump high enough. I'm like, okay, so why don't you just, like, do some jumps across the ballroom floor here? We're just in this conference center, like, just randomly doing ballet across the floor, and you just see what it feels like, and I'll see what it looks like. And so she did that. And so then we'll play a game of brain speedball, and we'll just retest. And she's like, okay, so you played for Three or four minutes. I was like, okay, do the same thing. And she's jumped remarkably higher. Her eyes were up and she stopped and she's like, what? What did you just do? What is that? What just happened? Like, something happened. It's huge. What. What is that? You've got to tell me what that is. Because she just, like, she felt it in such a huge way. And so I just. Because she asked, I gave her some of the science. I just said, you know, listen, your eyes have such huge influence over your abilities in your body that we just unlock those abilities. And so we played for a little bit longer, tested some other things, had a great time off. She goes, her mom's really happy. Well, after the conference is over, I get a message and the mom's like, I've got to tell you what happened. What you don't know is that the day before you saw her, the conference was in Las Vegas. By the way, the day before you saw her, she wanted to go to the Strip. So we take her out to the Strip and we're crossing the road, and the sensory input was so overwhelming that she just, like, fell to the ground. And I had to, like, carry her off of the road back onto the sidewalk because she was just so overwhelmed to go back to the hotel. It was. It was bad for her. And then you worked with her, and later that night and the day that you worked with her is the party that happens every year at this conference. And it's like a three hour party, and we normally stay for half an hour. That's when she gets overwhelmed. We go back to the hotel room, turn the lights off, she gets quiet and recovers. And she said, trent, she stayed for the entire three hours. And when we got back to the hotel, she wasn't exhausted. She's like, never have I seen this. Like, it was just a remarkable shift for this young lady. And I said, that's what's so beautiful about not making this about her condition, her label, this thing that every other therapist is talking to her about, but yet it profoundly affected her sensory integration to not have that overwhelm. It's just beautiful.

That's amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. So yes, yes.

The answer is yes, that is amazing. Okay, so you already gave us two resources. So anyone else who wants to learn more about working with you, what are some of the other best places that I can send them?

Well, I mean, you can connect to me on Facebook, Fred McIntyre, or @Fire up your brain on Facebook, but even on the websites, there's a way to get A hold of me through that too. So, you know, whether it's just you have a question about your situation or you want to learn more, if you're a professional and you really want to try to investigate how to integrate this into your practice, it's so much easier than people think it is. You know, this isn't about, like, how hard and complicated can we make make this. You can, you can overnight decide. I'm going to have a whole brain approach. I'm going to bring this into my practice and take the risk to be a little different in my space and see what happens. That's how. Listen, if it comes to, if you want to talk about, like, how to, how to attract and keep clients and patients when you get results faster, when you make an impact at that level, like, you don't have to. You don't have to do nearly as much marketing, that is your marketing. That is, that is the message that gets delivered. Like, I saw, I saw him twice and my back stopped hurting after two sessions. I didn't go for two months and it stopped hurting after two sessions it stopped hurting. And then I had to reset my goal because I thought it was going to take me six months to get over my pain. And it didn't. So now I have a new goal.

Yeah.

So that's beautiful.

So good. So good. Okay, great. So we'll make sure that we link all of that up in the show notes. And Trent, I really appreciate this was such an awesome episode. I really appreciate your time and pouring into my community.

I really appreciate it. Oh, it's my pleasure. Absolutely.

Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. Before you go, please help us help more people. In Honor of our 200th episode that was published in November of 2022, we are currently for the month of November for every every review that has been submitted for the podcast in November, we are donating $20 to one of my favorite charities that their mission is near and dear to my heart. Children of the night, while I personally have not been affected by human trafficking, it is a cause that is very near and dear to my heart. And so in this giving season season, we are sending a donations for every review for the podcast to this charity for the month of November. And so if this show has helped you in any way, if this episode has helped you in any way, please leave us a review screenshot it and email the screenshot to Chris C H R I S at b simpson fitness.com not only will you be contributing to a great cause, you will help get our message out to help more people raise the industry standard and start generating the revenue that they desire. Because the truth when more really good people have more resources they will give more and help more people. Thank you so much. I'll catch you on the next show. Thank you for listening to the PT Profit Podcast. If you like this episode, chances are your friends will too. So it would be a huge service to us if you would please leave us a review and share with your friends on your social media channels. When you leave us a review be sure to take a screenshot of it and email that screenshot to my team@info simpsonfitness.com and we'll send you a very special Instagram podcast that will show you how to create compelling content so that your ideal clients come to you and you go from wanting clients to a wait list of clients ready for your services. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you on the next episode.