https://www.listennotes.com/e/571018871ff740cba823ed5fbf9ebf21

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Hard Refresh. We got Rob Pulekki today joining us the man, the myth, the legend and the person that many people have told they think of him when they are sitting on a toilet.

So is that true?

It's so true. Oh, so true. TMI, you guys are inboxing me. Rob, I was thinking about you last time I was sitting on a public restroom in a public restroom. TMI.

That is very visual and also flattering, I would assume. A little bit flattering. That's amazing. I'm so pumped to have you, Rob. This is a huge honor for us. I know you're a podcast veteran, so we are pumped to have this conversation and get to know you a little bit better and ask you some really hard questions, right, Kaden? Are they really hard?

Very, very, very hard.

Very hard. Difficult.

Level of difficulty is high, guys. Thanks for having me on the show, guys. I appreciate you guys having me and taking the time. Let's get into some potty talk.

Yeah, let's do it. Before we do, we want to do some two truths and a lie with you. We'll let you take it away and then after that, we'll hand it off to Karina for some quick event sync and then we'll get into the meat of the episode. So, okay, two truths and a lie.

Here we go. Two truths and a lie. Okay, first one, toilet seat covers are absorbent. Second, I played tennis in college. Third, customers are afraid to use public restrooms.

New truths and a lie. Okay. All right.

What's the lie? What's the lie? Obviously, you know the lie. Come on.

I.

Okay, this is what I was thinking first. I don't know that you played tennis in college. I think you probably played, like, rugby. Taking, given your physique, I would say football, rugby, tennis, maybe not, but okay, maybe that's a little judgmental, stereotypical, no big deal. Okay.

That's really judgmental. I know, right?

But I can see the muscles. I can see the muscles. Not to say that tennis players don't have muscles. Okay. And I actually am scared of public restrooms in some places. So that is the truth. Caden, I think the second one is a lie.

Well, I know it's a lie because the first one is on every single post on LinkedIn from Rob. If you follow him, if you don't.

Okay.

One of the best accounts on LinkedIn to go follow. He ends every post with, hey, didn't you know? What is he covers are absorbent. It's the most gross thing to end with, but it's the truth.

Yeah.

Sometimes the more you know, you know. Yeah, and it works. People are, you know, I wish one day we'll have a national campaign about toilet seat covers, but they don't work. They've never worked ever since they've made them out of paper. So, yep, there's the two lies. I mean, the lie is I didn't play tennis, obviously.

I knew it.

I'm 300 pounds. There's no tennis for me.

Football.

Even pickleball, I'm too slow.

See, and you gave me a hard time. I knew tennis isn't in your cards.

No kidding.

Wait a minute.

Hold on a second.

I need to go back to this seat cover thing because I am actually really curious. Why do they have them in public restrooms if they essentially don't work, is what you're saying, right?

They've been tricking us this whole time. Whoever. So back in the sixties, seat covers were made out of wax. they were called wax seat covers, but they were clogging pipes, right? They were clogged because they can't disintegrate like paper. And so they started making them out of paper. And ever since they started doing that, I mean, people know when you sit on those things, your body makes them absorbent. And so anything that's on the seat seeps through. Yeah, that's. It's. It's. It's a little disgusting, but. I mean, wasting ton of paper, wasting ton of, I mean, you take out like 15 of those at a time. When you try to get one, they always rip. So yeah, they're absorbent. They don't work.

I will tell you that. That's gonna be my kids. Go ahead, Kaden.

I was gonna say that's gonna be the meat of our episode, 'cause you invented Washi off of this problem. So, but yeah.

No, I was just gonna say really quickly, so when my kids were really little, especially K, 'cause I have a little girl, I used to travel with these like, seat cover things, but they were like the ones that you put all over the sea because, you know, when little kids, like, they have, they hang their feet or their legs, and you don't want them to touch the ball. And now I'm like, what was I buying? Are they all people?

Yeah.

They're jumping on the, the toilet, using their hands to climb up. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

Everything.

No. Yeah.

It's disgusting.

Wow. that's really gross. I feel like we need to his backstory, too, though. A little bit about his, his journey, though, Kayden, right, before we jump into it, because I'd love to hear. We don't really do this, Rob.

So I, I have that for one of the first questions of where Washoe came from. But before you got to Washoe, you were an elected official.

I was. Yeah, I was an elected official in the state of Idaho. You know, I always say this. I went from politics to the restroom industry. you know, crap to crap. But the restroom industry is so much nicer than the, you know, the political atmosphere.

There you go, Chris.

Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, I was in government for, you know, about 12 years of my life. Graduated from college with a social work degree, you know, was the social services department head, and then I just moved up and became an elected official. and then at some point in time, you know, I was thinking, there's something else I can do. I've done as much as I can do in my career in government. And then I started getting into the, you know, the old man's club, where politics isn't really changing. They didn't like what I was doing because I was just changing everything. I was modernizing everything. I was like, you know what? That's probably it for me. I need to go try something else. And I had this, I I wrote down this one idea in my book. One day I'll do this. And so it was a good opportunity for me to switch careers. You know, I went on Shark Tank, was the full switch, quit the job, and now I'm selling toilet seats.

So cool. What an amazing story. How long were you in politics though? How many years were you in politics?

So two terms. So most people don't know, I was a county elected official and I was the county clerk. So a lot of responsibility. I ran an entire courthouse, ran every single election in the county. I was the comptroller, everything, jury duty, every clerk in the courthouse, 60 plus employees, $70 million budget just for my budget. So it was a huge job. And that's a one in a lifetime thing, never going back.

I bet you have some serious stories offline. I'd love to hear those stories. I'm fascinated with that stuff. Fun fact, I'd always wanted to be on jury duty. I've never gotten selected and I'm still bitter about it.

I always wanted to. Here's a tip. Here's a tip. If you don't want to be on jury duty, just start acting crazy when they interview you.

Yeah, you'll never be on a jury. No, I want to be on jury. I love everything Law and Order. I have been watching Law and Order. Of course, it's not reality, right?

It's not reality, but. Just like our wives. Our wives always watching SDU, Law and Order.

That's all she watches.

Yeah.

Every wife wants to be a detective.

Yes. It's not, it's intuition. It comes natural to us.

I'll leave on a business trip and she watches it alone and then she gets scared and I'm just, yeah. Anyways.

Yeah.

That's what happens when you really want it during the day.

Yeah, funny thing, guys, when I was in politics, you know, I really didn't think I was going to leave, but it took me about three years to get my first patent for Washi. I, you know, when my first patent for Washi came in the mail, it took me three years. 2015, I applied for it. I got it in 2018. And on the first line it said, Mr. Pulekki, congratulations. You are now an American inventor. I was kind of thinking, I was like, I'm an inventor now. What the heck? I didn't think I was gonna ever, I didn't even know what I was getting myself into. And so from that point, I had spent a lot of money to get this patent going. And so I applied for the show Shark Tank, you know, in 2018, 42, 000 companies, and I made it all the way to the end.

Incredible.

Unfortunately, I was cut. They made me quit my job to appear on a network. You can't be running for elected office while on a network. So I told them, Hey, I'll quit the job and I'll come on the show. And they cut me.

Wow.

Didn't even air my episode. But it was the worst but best thing that ever happened to me. Entrepreneur as an inventor and business owner because I probably would have given up about 50% of the company at the time. I just had an ugly looking prototype and a patent. I didn't have a business. And so I would have probably given up a lot of the company. I still own more than three thirds of the company now. And so three fourths of the company. So it was very hard at the time, but it was the best thing that happened. It gave me the exposure that I needed to. I was in the papers everywhere. Imagine this headline. Elected official quits his job to seek toilet seat dreams. I'm like, oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I hope you have those frames somewhere.

So it's been a long journey. It's been a long journey inventing a toilet seat.

That is the adventure. I love it.

Well, I'd be curious. Let's explain the invention of the toilet seat. What does it do? I've had the privilege of using Washy at Delta Sky Club in Salt Lake City. And it makes the Delta Sky Club experience even 10 times better.

And you know what it does, guys? It really elevates restroom experiences because, like I said in the beginning, people, customers are afraid to use a public restroom, whether it's in an airport, they don't know what to expect. So Washy is very simple. Washy is a toilet seat that allows a user to wipe down the seat, with an alcohol-based cleaning solution before they sit. We're getting rid of toilet seat covers. This is new innovation. Get rid of toilet seat covers. They don't work. Basically, you grab some toilet paper, wave your hand over a sensor, sanitizing solution comes to the surface, and you wipe down the seat before you sit. It dries quickly. It has a fragrance. It smells really good. And instead of covering the seat, we're actually, you know, sanitizing the seat down. So you have peace of mind.

I love that. Okay, Caden, how did you feel about that, though? You're talking. You sat on. You have the experience. Walk us through. When you laid your tush on that seat, what did you feel?

So. So, Karina, this is a porcelain thought.

No.

My porcelain thought.

Full circle.

There was the confidence. I mean, in general, I was actually just at a restaurant last week and there's this one restaurant that the food is so good that I tolerate the hole in the wall experience.

Yeah.

Even of their restroom. That's very few. Like the restroom. literally sets a precedence of my interpretation of the brand, the food quality, whatever it is. It's a public restroom, right? And Delta Sky Club obviously elevates the experience anyways. They're way better than the public restrooms in the airport versus the Sky Club. But yeah, Washi was there. There's a little sign, I knew how to use it. You just waved it and it was just, did you take a video of the confidence? Like, I did not. Rob has plenty of videos of the restroom. Yeah.

I'm gonna need a video.

If somebody found my phone and they opened up my photos, they would think I was a serial bathroom stalker. I would get arrested.

Oh my gosh. Well, that's amazing though. The partnership with Delta Sky Club, how can I talk, can I ask about that? Like how is that everywhere? Every Delta Sky Club has Washi now or what?

Yeah, so just a few on the West Coast. Here's what happened with Delta Sky Club. A customer emailed their corporate leadership, took a picture of a disgusting toilet seat nest. You guys know what a toilet seat nest is, right?

Oh, yeah.

No? So it's, what's a nest?

It's when people put toilet paper and create a nest on the seat to try to cover the seat with toilet paper.

Oh, okay.

You gotta see one.

There's another one.

Google toilet seat nest.

I'm doing it.

So, He walked in and he saw a toilet seat nest, took a picture, emailed corporate and said, this is not the experience that I'm looking for when I pay 500 bucks a year to come to this club. You should try Washy. And so their corporate emailed us, knocking on the door, Hey, what's Washy? Can we try something? So we tried it in San Diego, Delta Sky Club, and we got rave reviews, five star reviews from all their customers. put a little QR code on the back of the door so that, you know, people get to take surveys and tell us their restroom experience and rave reviews. All five star reviews.

What an amazing customer. Who is this person? I hope they're on like, brand ambassador list 101. Like, this is incredible. It's like what you dream.

Think him all the time. Yeah. So he messaged me on LinkedIn as well. I sent this. to corporate, they need to improve their restrooms. So I thank him all the time because he got his business, you know, he, right. And at that point of our business, we were so young, you know, we didn't know operations, we didn't know ship, I mean, I was going to install the toilet seats myself.

And so, no way.

We're a startup and so customers are complaining and if you're a brand, you're gonna, you're gonna please your customer. And that's the one place that you should start thinking about if you're a big brand is that I can sell the best food, I can sell the best products in my store. But once my customer goes in the bathroom and they see something disgusting, your image and your brand starts to go downhill.

A hundred percent, the perception of feeling, a hundred percent. So you have a good perception of Delta Sky Club, Kayden? 100% return to that restroom and put your tush on that seat. No problem.

Every time.

You will look for that bathroom.

Rob, you've done this on LinkedIn, like the gate, the gas station food series. Yeah, talking about gas station food, both of us being in Utah, I don't know if you've ever driven down 15 as you head towards St. George, but there's, I think it's a Chevron or an Exxon, and that's their number one ad. clean restrooms. And I was like, it does not have a washi in there. Maybe it does now. It's been a while. But I went there and I was like, did not live up to expectations. So I go to Maverick two more exits down because they take care of the restroom better. My wife will not go anywhere else.

Yeah.

Moms, you know, especially women who have to sit down a hundred percent of the time, have kids that need to take to the restroom, remember? where clean restrooms are. And so the brand Maverick on, you know, on the West Coast is a brand that, hey, there's a Maverick, we can stop and use their restroom. How does, why does Maverick even want clean restrooms? Because now dad's gonna go fill up on the gas. Mom's gonna go buy $40 of snacks, and that's how they make their money. And so you, you have cleaner restrooms, which equals more revenue because everyone's stopping. You know, early on we started getting event centers with Washi, you know, airports, But then the gas station industry hit us hard. They started knocking. Once we got one gas station, they started talking and they were knocking on the door like, Guys, we need your product. We have the biggest problem with bathrooms because nobody wants to nobody trusts our bathrooms. And so in the South, we are very popular. We started doing a lot of business in the South, seven states in the South. And in, you know, here on the West Coast as well, but the South.

I love that.

That's amazing.

What's the perception about labor though? I'm curious from your perspective, how does Washi impact, if at all, right? The labor of that day porter matron team member, like what is that perception? What's the impact? What have you heard?

Yeah.

So the ROI for Washi comes in a few ways. One is your brand recognition, brand improvement in restrooms. Obviously we do QR codes anytime we install Washi She, we do QR codes. Their customers get to take surveys. So now we have over 2,000 five star reviews for a toilet seat, guys, in a restroom. And so nothing in the restroom is getting five star reviews. You're not getting five star reviews from great toilet paper or from soap or from paper towels. And we're getting five star reviews. So we're blasting this everywhere. Like we're the only product that gets five star reviews. And so as for brand, we're improving brand. ROI for labor and just being clean. No more toilet seat covers on the ground. Maintenance hates picking up seat covers on the ground. And when we're in hospitals, the doctors are saying, guys, we put up a sign and say, hey, wipe the seat before you go. But if you make a mess, wipe up your own stuff.

Yeah.

Be clean.

Be responsible. and so when they go into hospitals, they're walking into shiny toilet seats because the person is cleaning up their own stuff. And so there's different things, different ROIs that's coming from Washi and yeah, it's just been great.

But I think you touched on a really important part of this, right? It's like the brand integrity or brand, there's not perception. Like the brands that are willing to do use Washi are the ones that are elevated, that they value a certain level of clean professionalism. an innovative concept. And they also expect that from their patrons, I think, as well, right? Like, to your point about going to the restroom, if you make a mess, like, clean up after yourself. Don't just leave the toilet paper on the ground. And I always joke around with the kids, like, when I ever, when we go to the bathroom, I always wipe down the sink because I've been a janitor all my life, right? So I like, wipe down and like, put, make sure the toilet paper is fixed and the paper towel, and they're like, Mom, you don't have to do that. I'm like, Yeah, you do. Others are going to come into this space and it's nice to come into a clean restroom. It takes nothing for me to wipe this down. So I love that you're talking about the brands that are willing to use Washi. It shows their commitment to clean and their commitment to an elevated experience.

Yeah. Karina, look, we need some good people like you being responsible, taking care of their own mess. Here's one thing that I've noticed because I've traveled the world. you know, I've gone to Asian countries, Asian countries, especially Japan. The culture there is very different. The culture there is very respectful of other things, very polite, clean. You see, you see bidets in airports everywhere because they know people are going to take care of things. And gas stations in the South, we've had vandalism. Who wants to kick a toilet. Say, guys, the culture here in America is, Hey, I'm gonna go into this restroom and destroy this thing and leave. So the culture, you know, needs to change. However, these big brands like Starbucks, Target, what they did with restrooms is really unique. When we were having the gender bathrooms go in, Starbucks went and changed all of their bathrooms to gender neutral bathrooms. and so that changed something, right? That changed something because men and women are using the same bathroom.

Right.

And so men are disgusting. Yeah. And so women have to use the bathroom. Women have to use the bathroom after a man goes and pees everywhere. And so I know this is a little TMI, but this is my world of, you know, now Washi comes into play where women feel comfortable after using, you know, after a guy uses the bathroom. they can go in and, you know, clean the seat down for their kid to take care of business. So different brands are, are, are actually spending a lot of money changing their bathroom and restroom behaviors.

That's a mind shift. It's a change of mentality of how you perceive the restroom. There's so much that you, when you're walking in, I still like going to Target, going to Nordstroms, there's a huge difference. Going into a really nice restroom and going into one that has paper towels and paper and toilet paper on the ground and sticks to your foot and you're like, dang it. And then you do one of these, right? Like, don't touch anything. Don't touch anything. Don't touch anything. That's what I make K do all the time. Like, don't touch anything.

Well, so Rob, being in a restroom tech space, obviously the sensor dispenses the solution. Can you talk about the vision of what's next? Culture, I mean, culture in America needs to change. I've definitely seen that firsthand that we just we have no respect for the public restroom. Anywhere.

We don't. Yeah.

So how how is something as maybe as simple as technology of Washi, have you thought of other ways that Washi can evolve the restroom experience being an inventor? You know, I'm sure your mind's raced on other ideas and future things that you hope restroom technology comes up to speed with as well. Are you willing and able to share any insights or your thoughts and vision as a, as a visionary of the restroom for where we're going?

Yeah.

Guys, Kaden and Karina, one crappy idea at a time. I gotta stick with Washi for now, but no, but there's, there's a lot of things that, you know, restrooms can improve. Washi is the first smart toilet seat for public restrooms. So you connect, you know, Washi connects to an app. It lets maintenance know if battery or cartridge levels are low. And so you get a notification if you're a maintenance guy. Hey, terminal two, bathroom number five, seat number one is low on cartridges. Washi takes a soap cartridge, you put the soap in the seat, and that's how it dispenses the alcohol-based cleaning solution. And so instead of the maintenance guy manually checking every single seat or manually checking every single dispenser, every single air freshener, They get notifications on their phone. Hey, this is low because the number one complaint in bathrooms is smell. Second complaint is you're out of paper. Third complaint's dirty. Those three rotate. And so we're improving that, hey, customers want soap, customers want paper towels. They want this thing to be, you know, filled. And so the maintenance people get a notification so that you never run out of supplies. Kimberly Clark in Georgia Pacific, had some technology that came out. And so we adapted to their technology. And so we're the first smart toilet seat. The seat also has a few sensors in it. So the sensor to dispense the cleaning solution, there's a sensor in the arm of the seat. The arm of the seat is so, you know, there's a u-shaped seat, right? So these are the arms of the seat. It's a little education there for toilet seat users. But, there's a sensor in the arm. So when you sit down on the seat, Washi knows that somebody's on the seat. And so you can determine use, you can determine, you know, it deactivates the dispenser so it doesn't dispense on someone. And so we have all kinds of, you know, Technology in the seat on how you can count how many people have used the, you know, use the seat if it's low on cartridges, batteries. And so we're kind of at that point, I think. for the restroom industry, there needs to be the culture shift of taking care of restrooms. Karina, like you said, you go into a Nordstrom bathroom here, you're shopping and you go into a Nordstrom bathroom, you're.

Like, you're like, you see the light.

Yeah, yeah.

Honestly.

Oh, nice.

I've arrived.

Yeah.

You just feel so important. You're like, oh my gosh, look at what they gave me to use the bathroom. You feel like a hundred bucks, but you go to a gas station in Chevron, you're like, oh, my gosh, this is just, yeah, I'm never filling up on gas here ever again. So those experiences brands need to keep in mind that you can drive customers away or you can keep them coming back.

Right. It's super important. How long before you're in residences, like before you offer this to the greater public? Because I'm thinking about, I'd love to have this in my bathroom. And so I have two boys that have a very hard time with seat down and up, and I'm like, this would be ideal.

Yeah.

So we're actually launching our B2C product, Washi Home this year. Washi Home dispenses, yeah, dispenses on the top surface, and it also sprays into the bowl. So there's a mechanism where you spray into the bowl, helps clean. So before you go, you spray. It's like a Poo-Pourri. It smells really nice.

Yeah.

Sprays into the sides of the bowl. so when you flush, everything goes down. Karina, close your ears. They call it charticles. No more charticles stuck.

Did you make that up? Is that a real term?

No, that's a term. You gotta look that up.

I got charticles. Like charting?

Charticles. The particles that stick to the bowl are no longer to be stuck to the bowl. And so, yeah, we developed a. A home seat. Ever since I've made Washi, everyone has, I mean, not just 10, 20 people, hundreds of people. We have a list of over 500 people. I need this for my house. Can I buy this for my house?

I know.

That's the very first thing that I thought.

Yeah.

So we're launching, yeah, we're launching a home version. You can be on the list. I'll put you at the top.

But please, it's coming up. We're selling it on your website. Are you selling it with a district, like a company with Target, Walmart, Home Depot. Where do we buy it? I'm actually really interested. I really want to buy this.

Yeah.

So. So we haven't launched yet. We're still in the final stages of design.

Okay.

It's my second design of a toilet seat. I thought I was going to be done with this industry in, like, five years, but looks like I'm going long term with this thing. But we will be launching the actual product by it, by end of year.

Okay, so. Wow.

Which will go direct. Yeah, we'll go direct. And then probably in 26, we'll probably go retail. Here's. Here's a great thing that happened to me early on. You guys know the product called Squatty Potty?

Yep.

Yeah.

No, no. Squatty Potty is top five products of shark tank. It's this little stool that you put in your home.

Oh, yes, I do. Yes. Yes, yes.

That product is a Utah product called Squatty Potty. And so when I got cut from Shark Tank, they heard about me. Shark Tank people talk and they heard about me. They offered me a deal way back when. And it was a slap in the face deal. I was like, heck no, I'm not taking this deal. And so years later, the former CEO of Squatty Potty, the guy that produced the Squatty Potty commercials, I have them on our board. And so when we launched this new home seat, you know, and all things kind of revolve, happened for a reason. I met these people early on for a reason. That's because I was going to launch this home version and so they're going to help with the home version. And I think it's going to be a big winner.

Huge. I think it's going to be huge, honestly. Very first thing that I thought of was, I want this in my house for obvious reasons. and teenage boys. I feel like you should have teenage boys as part of the ad, you know, like they're the main users of this and making sure they clean because, boy, are they disgusting.

I mean, heck, it's nothing. There's plenty of husband and wife conversations. So the ad should be, we will save your marriage.

Yeah. All right.

I'm writing that down. Come on, give me some more. I'm writing that down.

Okay. Question about analytics, though, because you touched on something really important, and I think from, like, a tech perspective, you're capturing ratings, right? You're capturing ratings for these locations, these restaurants, these stalls, et cetera. But you also have an app. So how do you leverage the data in a way that is it from a ROI perspective? Is it for a operational improvement perspective or all of the above? How are you using that data?

Yeah. So it's really for operational improvements. So when someone opens our app, it goes, you know, C2 app is through Bluetooth, then goes to the cloud. So I can log into on my desktop and see every seat in America, what levels are at, you know, what battery levels are at, cartridge levels are at. And so, you know, if a customer is like, hey, these guys are probably out, let's just ship them a bunch of cases of soap. And so we're always being proactive. It's for operational excellence. Like, hey, in the bathrooms, the number one complaint is we're out of product. okay, let's, let's get product to them. Hey, so it's really for, hey, we don't want to be a headache. This is a new product. I don't want to be, I don't want to be a burden on the company because, hey, customers complaining, this thing doesn't work. This thing is dead. Well, why is it? Because we haven't given them the tools that they need to keep Washi active and, and alive. So, yeah.

One more question. Sorry. I'm, like, on, I just can't. You're getting so many. I can't. Okay, what, how do deal with, like, the dwell time, though, because aren't you supposed to, like, when you spray a product, aren't you supposed to let it dwell for a minute? Like, does that, does the product have that pause time or. No.

Yeah.

So, so our product is alcohol-based cleaner, and so it uses, we don't have a dwell time because we need it to be dry when the, when the customer sits down. So when they wipe the seat, it dries within two seconds. And so.

Oh, wow.

You know, it does have an all-go component to the cleaner, and so we don't have a dwell time.

Okay. Because I think disinfectants are the only ones that need dwell time, right, Kaden?

Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

And for our product, we're marked as a cleaner. We don't put any claims out there that we're killing 99.99%.

Yeah.

You know, probably one day we will register our product, but Not today.

Yeah.

All right, Kaden, sorry, can you walk.

Us through the interaction? It's like, you know, it gets way better experience and way more sanitary than without or using a toilet seat cover. So, but okay, so I'm fascinated on like the analytics. So do you enable your customers to go in and see like traffic patterns, knowing that even from the point Me being in the software space, I'm like anything that's like predictive and automated. I think it's 100% true that so many complaints come from like the downtime of dispensers, paper towels are out or whatever. These pieces of technology that are going in the restroom, if major chains can come on board and literally like just, Hey, I'll get the product exactly I need and after three months of usage, it can anticipate this day of the week, you're going to have this amount of product. These cartridges need to be changed on Tuesdays and Thursdays of the first week of the month because that's that's the traffic pattern like that. That level of insight and data no longer reliant on a human being of checking. Obviously, that's very powerful, but at the same time, it's also going to get into the point of how do you digest that data with perhaps artificial intelligence for predictive analytics and to automate the whole thing. You cut out the middleman inventory is automated. It's automatically shipped and it's just they're ready to go.

Yeah.

And so restroom traffic throughout the year comes in waves. This is, yeah, guys, we're talking about restroom traffic and there's some restroom psychology that I'll get into, but restroom traffic comes in years. In the summertime, boost of traffic because everybody's out, everybody's on the road, Thanksgiving, you know, holidays, but they're slow. So, so restroom traffic goes in waves. And so AI and making sure that they need product on a consistent basis is exactly why they're running out because they don't have technology that does this. You know, you can do a subscription based inventory where you're sending them, hey, we're going to send you 40, cartridges a month. However, during the summer, the traffic is higher. So, okay, that's not going to work. Over the, over the years with our customers, we've learned those patterns. And when they went, you know, a month or two before those summer months come up, we get on a call with our customers and say, hey, based on last year, this was the amount of inventory that you guys went through. And so we send them the email, we send them, this is probably how much you need. And so prepping them. And if they don't need that much, they have it in stock and they can use it until they're out. Those, those type of analytics are very important to the restroom industry because it's the number, you know, that's the complaint of not having product. As far as restroom psychology, there's a book out there that talks about restroom behavior. And so when you walk into a restroom, stall number one is hardly ever used. So when you go in, stall number one is hardly ever used.

That's the one I'll be using.

Four and five, three, four and five are mostly used. So if we set Washi in five stalls, stalls number three, four and five would run out of solution faster than stalls one and two. And so the rest of psychology and what we've learned on behavior in, in bathrooms, it's kind of weird, but it's kind of interesting at the same time.

So interesting. I love that the same thing happens. Porters, right? Like, people think that you're coming in and you're replacing the toilet paper. You're actually just moving it from one stall to another, right? Now, you're not really replacing the toilet paper. You're switching it out and, like, being creative. But that's so interest. Is that. So there's a book on bathroom psychology.

Did you write said book? I didn't write the book. You know, it's very. There's a lot of smart people before my time, but there's actually a little book about restroom psychology and how people. interact. It talks about what sink people use. If you see rust on the, in the middle sink or the, the end sink is because those sinks have been used the most. Sink number one is not used, you know, so it's different, especially men, when they go to a urinal. Men don't like to stand next to each other in a urinal. Why? I mean, there's bathroom psychology there. If there's, if there's seven urinals, and a guy is there and you go stand next to him, that's really awkward and the rest are empty, right? And so they go into that kind of stuff. And so it's really, it's a real fun read if you have some spare time.

But I think you can also, you can make a claim here about sustainability. I think you touched on this earlier in the episode, right? Like, because you have Washi, essentially, you're getting rid of the seat covers that don't work. We established that, but also. A lot of times people will use toilet paper to line the seat. I'm not saying any names on top of the seat cover. So if you don't do that now, you're saving on product. And obviously there's a reduction of waste there as well, right? So I'm sure you get that a lot, that this is a huge play on sustainability.

Yeah.

So early on in 2019, 2020, we did a ton of surveying. The number one question is, for me in our first survey was, do you wipe the seat down before you go? Like, what do people do? Like, are they getting toilet paper to wipe the seat down? Are they just putting the seat cover on the toilet seat? Like, what is the behavior? What if there's something on the seat? Do you avoid it? Do you, or what do you do? And if that's the only stall, what do you do? Like, we had all these questions and over 80% of people said, oh, yeah. I wiped the seat down anyway. I grabbed toilet paper and just wiped the seat.

Yeah.

And actually, what they're doing is they're just moving whatever is on that seat around the seat. Oh, they're thinking they're doing something, but they're actually just moving, spreading it all around. And so that's where I came up with Washi. It was like, hey, well, now we have a cleaner that, you know, you can actually, like, clean the seat. Like, you know, It's fresh. And so the second question that was very popular was, did you know that toilet seat covers are absorbent? And did you know that toilet paper is absorbent as well? So, gross. Guys, have you put down toilet paper?

What if you double line? Does it matter? That's what I do. I put the seat cover and then I put the toilet paper on top and I do like this crisscross situation. Is that the nest that we were talking about?

You just gotta. You just gotta know body heat. Your body heat, depending on, like, if you're in Florida and you're hot and you go into a bathroom, your body heat is going to go through that paper. Like, especially guys. Guys will. I don't know about women. I can speak for guys. Guys will stand up. And that total seat cover is stuck on their butt because. So. So body heat makes here. Just go get a piece of paper and go.

Sit down on it.

Sit down on it. Go sit down there for like, you know, a few minutes and see what happens. But anyway, you know, we had these questions and we're looking at behavior, what they actually do. And we found that 80% of people wipe the seat down anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. I definitely wipe the seat down. I always do that. And then I put the seat cover and then I put the toilet paper around the seat cover and I do like a crisscross situation. TMI.

You're gearing up.

I know, I'm just, just in case, but none of that works. So I'm gonna only use wash your bathrooms from now on.

I was thinking about this whole invention of just, you know, sometimes I'm, I'm so surprised how things didn't get addressed sooner, right? When society's behavior is we are also grossed out by restrooms and, and yet it's 2025 and we're finally like having someone go tack this specific. most vulnerable part of the restroom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know?

Anyways, so, Rob, I actually really appreciate.

The Candor of this conversation, though, right? Because this is, like, really gross stuff. But also, like, we should to. To, like, make it a little bit more less gross. Like, change the mindset of this. We all use the restroom. I'm like, why is it so taboo that we can't talk about wiping down a restroom, making sure you don't, like, pee on the toilet seat? Like, come on, guys. 2025. Rob's leading the church. Yeah.

Yeah, it's. Yeah, well, and I didn't do my quick coming in.

Control section, by the way. I didn't do the.

We did it.

Just Zoom.

We just, like, straight in.

Yeah, I know. It's okay.

That went by quick, guys. It's already 10.

50.

That went by quick.

I love this. This is so much fun. So much psychology in the restroom. Now that I think about it, like, when I walk into a restroom, I definitely am like, okay, looking at the stalls. Yeah, I definitely go to the farthest and the biggest because I always go in with my daughter and then, yeah, if I'm alone, I'll do like the second one or third one. Interesting.

Yeah.

I always feel. I also always feel better when I walk into a restroom and I see, like, the day porter or the day attendant or the staff or someone like. cleaning. And I'm like, just hit the jackpot. Walked in, clean.

Before we, before we end, guys, I gotta make this plug. Washi for the month of June is doing free trials for any facility.

No way.

We have so much data, so many five stars with our product. Now we're putting our money where our mouth is and say, look, try our product. We have, we, we we posted it. We've already had seven trials are set up and so you get to try Washi in a men's and women's restroom for free. We take care of everything from installation to shipping to customer service to QR code serving. You try Washi out 30 days for free and let your customers tell you if they like it or not.

Wow, that's awesome. I have a lot of friends in property management. I'm going to send it to them. That would be huge for them to put in these facilities and get these back into the buildings with a clean toilet.

100%. Well, if, if you guys have enjoyed as listeners this episode today, go give Rob a follow on LinkedIn. Always stay up to date on what he's doing and what he's producing and, and his take on gas station food. That's an important thing to get insight on as well beyond the toilet seat.

So, yeah, a wealth of knowledge he is.

Yes. Rob, thanks for hanging today. It's been a blast and we hope to catch you again in a year from now when Washi home has come out. We've got to do a follow-up episode.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thanks, guys.

Thanks. We'll see you.