The Myth of More Bodies | E1 - Hard Refresh - An ISSA Podcast

Sam here.

Everyone.

This is the official first pilot episode of Hard Refresh and man, we are excited. It's just going to be Karina and I today before we start bringing on guests because we have quite the wait list that's already starting to build up on that. But until, until that happens, we're going to take this first pilot episode and we're going to dive right in to our first segment like we said we would, which is quick control. Karina, do you want to take it away?

Yes. Okay, so we're just gonna give a couple of updates in regards to what we're working on. It's so funny because Kaden and I have been geeking out and. Okay, I actually have to set the tone first because I have gonna challenge myself to expand my vernacular because I realize I say the same words over and over and geek out and excited. So I really want people to hold me accountable. But so we are actually gonna join the Tech and Innovation committee here in like a couple minutes. But we want to be able to kind of show everybody. We're working on the webinar that's posted already actually from last week's thread, which was about implementation, adaptation, automation. And so that's ready to go. And then we have some content that was shared from a couple of the committee members, so that's on the LinkedIn group. And we're also really excited to think through maybe a town hall or a webinar that's going to be live. We got really great momentum. Like Kayden said, there's a couple people that are interested in joining as guests and they are brilliant in our space, great energy and can provide a ton of value. So we're ready to go.

Yeah. And it's honestly, it's just going to be dive in, figure it out. And as we hear back from the audience on what is resonating, we'll adjust and fine tune and try and create more value. That's the whole purpose of the committee, is how do we generate value and resources for the cleaning industry. So, yeah, diving into segment number two though, our clear. Okay, Karina, before I say this, I have never heard someone say cache.

Cachet. Clear. Cachet. Ca. I say that all the time. Did you clear a cachet?

Yeah, I call it just cash. Did you clear the cash?

Oh wait, who's saying it wrong?

I don't know. Just when you said it the other day, I was just like, huh? I was like, I've never heard someone say that. I said, but it's not. I mean, it's It's. It doesn't come up in conversation. It's not one of you. But no, I just realized, I was like, I always just said, clear the cash. And maybe no one's ever said anything to me.

Okay, we're definitely.

Sounds way fancier.

It does sound. And I tell. I will tell you, I've said it so many times because when we were like, troubleshooting for Pioneer team members, they'd be like, karina, it's not the lot. The website's not working well. I'm like, clear cachet. You gotta clear the cachet. Now I'm like, oh, no. As I say it, the whole. It's like, ar, Kansas. This is hysterical. But like, my son thought that it was Ar, Kansas for so long, and I was like, Honey, it's Arkansas. And he was like, why spelled A, Ar, Kansas, Arkansas. Oh, no, you're 16. That's not good. But let's. We digress.

Yeah. Well, the topic for our cachet today is the myth of more bodies. Now, this one's interesting because this isn't just relevant to cleaning, although that's what we're going to focus on. Often we think like, oh, human beings. Throw it at the problem. More human beings. You just might be adding to chaos. So, Karina, let's dive into this. What's this myth?

Okay, so this is kind of where you and I are different in the sense of immediately when I met you, I can tell that you're very process oriented, super disciplined. And I think that's one of the things I admire about you. I am more like, whoa, we'll figure it out. Like, it's totally fine. And it's, It's. I always think that people will be able to produce and if you empower them. And, but. And we talked about this a little bit a second ago. Like, what ends up happening when you do put the people before the process? There's inevitable friction that will come. Whether someone's having a bad day, they forget a step. And if you don't lead with your processes, then it's going to inevitably crash. And so. And then you're also talking through, like, implementation and onboarding and like hiring someone new. So I think bodies. Bodies sound so bad. Like people, team members. Right. I always lead with people. But I think that it's fair to say that processes should lead.

I've converted you.

I know it was. That wasn't even a challenge I submitted immediately.

I'm like, well, here's the thing. Like, I always had the belief and mindset that, like, hey, always bring in A players.

Yeah.

And I. An A player. A players are the ones that build processes. Right. What makes them A players is they're strong executors and great leaders. Develop other leaders. Well, you do that by actually having a playbook and systems that you're running right now. What, what would be funny is if you asked my team if I'm a process guy, they would be like, no, really, Caden's a visionary. And he's like. And, and so the, the reality is, is I try and I try having foot in both. But the belief system that's evolved over the years is that people are not your greatest asset. Your processes are. But people build your processes, so people still matter.

So I was going to ask you, do you think that you are. Have always been an A player? Is that something that is inherited or is it something that the culture influences? And I know that there's needs to have different types of players, but like, expand on that a little bit because I'm curious from your perspective as a CEO, Right. Like, what are you. How do you think about that?

Yeah, I definitely didn't used to be an A player.

Okay.

Like, I think about and even employees that I've, I've mentored up, like, my definition of like holding someone accountable has evolved over my years of experience. So. And I think as a, as a cleaning company operator and in house team, you're. You evolved in your experience as well. For me, I look back on some embarrassing. I'll tell this story really quick. I remember the first time I ever hopped on a call with a customer and I was with our CEO at the time and he was, he introduced me on the call and I just like, was silent. I was like. He's like, say hi. And I was like, oh, hey. That's all I said the very. I mean, this was like a decade ago. But I, I think back on, like, if that was my experience with a staff member, my immediate judge today would be like, that's not a player talent. You know, So I definitely believe it can be built up and worked on. But I think that's the key to it is the person has to realize that, like, I always got to evolve. I've got to improve, I've got to become better.

Yeah.

And to the point where have gotten into the position I am as a CEO. So. Yeah. And it's. And it doesn't stop. There's other CEOs that I admire and look up to and view as better A players than I am in leading their companies. And So I try and pattern after them. So it's a constant work in progress.

I think you're an exceptional leader. I'm going to pivot a little bit. Did I have to sugarcoat that first before I pivot? So, no, I'm curious from like, a body's perspective, right. Because this is, I think, a question that I get a lot in terms of, okay, I'm gonna add a new technology, I'm going to implement software, I'm gonna do this. Tech is amazing. But who's doing it? Who's leading the charge first in the implementation of technology? Who's helping with the maintenance of the technology? Like, who are the people that are involved? And we can go as granular as, like, is it ops? Is it client engagement? Is it the senior leadership team? Like, how would, how do you answer those questions for companies?

So when someone comes to me and they don't have this mapped out, I say, hey, just a heads up, it probably is not going to work out.

Yeah, okay.

So I think it's all of them. But what's interesting is we have such a strong dominance in the amount of personnel that have to work front lines. That is our industry's offering. Right?

Right.

That's cleaning. So what's interesting is if we're trying to implement solutions, robotics, technology, whatever it is, it's to scale that back because it's such an. It's the highest expense on anyone's books most of the time. But like that, scaling that back, making the frontline more productive, adding things to their playbooks that make them faster at their jobs, all of those things. It's kind of a catch 22. You have to add more administrative bodies to reduce those bodies. So it's, it's, and it's. And it's not. The goal isn't to just go, let a bunch of people go. The goal is to say, hey, how do we grow without having to add more personnel?

Right.

I tell my staff all the time, I say, before you come to me with a request to hire a new employee, right now, it's, hey, is your Entire team using AI to do 25, 50% more in your day?

Right.

At a cleaning company that's going to be at the administration level, obviously a frontline cleaner is not using AI to clean faster.

Right.

But at least not today. But the idea that eventually administrative personnel need to realize that they need to invest more in administration on the onset to make it leaner at a later future date when they're really scaling.

Right.

But to answer your question, you need executive team sponsorship and beliefs. First and foremost is you all have to know the problem you're going to try and solve.

Yes, Amen. Love that.

And it might be multiple. And when it's multiple, people even come to us for multiple. They go to any technology stack and they have multiple problems. The problem with that mindset is when you go and try and solve multiple things at once, it gets hairy. Things get. You've got to be able to say, this is number one, they're all important, but number one, number two, number three, and we're going to solve them in that order.

Right?

And so that's. And then you have someone that's got to be a project owner, like, who's responsible for the outcome of getting there. Doesn't mean that has to be their, like, sole job.

Right?

But they can't be someone that has a full plate already and then say, hey, somehow you need to spend an extra 25% of time on this initiative. You can't do that.

Well, and I think there's something there to be said in terms of, like, there are people that are responsible, but there's ultimately somebody that's accountable. Right. And so when you do implement technology, especially something new, I think there has to be someone that's accountable, but there's stakeholders that are involved, one team, one plan. And I love that you said that about the problem or what are you actually trying to solve? Because it does become very, not bleak, but, like, big and massive. You're like, oh, my gosh, this new platform, this new tech, and this is like, no, what. What are we trying to do? Are we trying to figure out an inspection tool? Are we trying to provide quality control assurance? Are we trying to get better numbers for our analytics? Like, what exactly are we doing? If you hone in on that, I think you're going to be successful. I think one of the things that I always struggled with is from an operational perspective, those are my guys, Those are my people, right? Like, I had such great relationships with them because I generally wanted to help make their lives easier. And so when I would roll out a new feature for Quora, I'd be like, guys, this is amazing. Like, and they were like, oh, it's not like, this is actually going to be more work. I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah, it'll make your life so much better. And so they're like, karina, there's a lot to go into. So then I got much smarter about how I was designing or developing programs or not programs, features with like, baseline Assessments, understanding their problems, what they were doing. And that's a critical piece to this is there's gotta be check marks or benchmarks that you have to hit in order to say, okay, this rollout is successful. And pulling everyone in at this, everyone has their hand in, is actually super important because if you don't have all of the cogs to this wheel, it'll break down. And that's something that, like, I first started with operations, and then it wasn't working. I was like, wait a minute, why? It's because operations actually needs client engagement, and they also need human resources, and they need finances that they don't know what we're working for. It's always going to be fractured.

Yep. The. The. The idea of, like, having internal journey maps.

Yeah.

Is.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah. It's. You got to be able to literally see, like, a workflow. You got to see a problem in front of you because. And. And we do this in product development. We're doing the same thing. We're. We're going through, like, all right, what's the. What's the journey of the operational workflow here? Yes. All right, well, we're missing a very obvious piece right here. Or right. Hey, this is connected to this. And we haven't. We haven't gone and built for that. So as a. As a commercial cleaning operator, in house cleaning facility operator, if you don't have that map, like, you can't have it mapped out in your head, because then no one else can see it.

So, Right.

If you were to go literally whiteboard, say, hey, this happens, this happens, this happens, and then you get key stakeholders to say, all right, this requires human resources. This requires more personnel here, here, and here.

Right.

Well, is the process requiring us that we have more personnel? Or if we cut this process and had it go here, then we actually only need half the personnel, and it actually still delivers the same outcome.

Right.

So when you kind of going back to the idea that more bodies solve the problem, that. That is. The problem is you haven't identified the actual problem. You haven't looked at the workflow. So you're. You're bleeding out, and you're just like, hey, we need more nurses to help stop the. You know. Exactly. It's a lot of things. It takes patience, but a lot more things will be solved efficiently if you backed up, created out a mapping of your entire workflow and how you like to operate, find out where there's holes and see if you can realign resources. So you could say, hey, we Have a hole over here. And if we fix this one, maybe with technology, maybe not. Some way fix it with a process. You can't. You don't fix things with technology. Technology is the means to an outcome.

Right.

So you fix this process. Oh, well, instead of having to let people go, now we can deploy those resources without having to hire more people and move them over here. Because this one does require human capital.

Right? I love that, man. I'm so glad we recorded because that was good. No, I will tell you, I think one of the things that people often overlook is the fact that a lot of things that you're building, creating and adapting, implementing, require organizational structure or reorganizational structure at the foundation of a company. And, and that piece of the puzzle is also super critical when it comes to communication and how you distribute communication and how many times you do what. Without those things, it's really, really difficult to implement anything, not just technology.

Yeah, a hundred percent. Like you could have a very manual process that you were trying to implement and still fail at its use and execution because you didn't do the pre work. So.

Yes. All right, guys, we did it.

Yep, that's it. So if you have comments, comment on this thread that we post this on and let us know your thoughts. And maybe you don't like the people aren't your greatest asset. Processes are at me. Tell me why. It doesn't mean I don't like people. It just. I believe people build your greatest asset. And so you make sure you hire the best people to build the asset. That's your process.

I love it. Next time. I won't be swayed so easily, like literally out the gate. I could never be a good lawyer because I'm like, oh, you're right, guilty. Totally fine. Next time. I promise, guys, I will be stronger on my. On my challenge. Until next time.

Okay, thanks everyone. We'll see you next time on the hard refresh.