The Training Trap | E5 - Hard Refresh - An ISSA Podcast

Sam.

Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Hard Refresh. I'm your host, Kaden Hutchins. Alongside me, Karina Neff, my amazing co host. And we got some awesome guests today. Tony and Vince from Core America and Smart Inspect. Guys, take it away. Introduce yourself.

Thanks, Kaden. I'll go first again. Tony Mahoney, president with Core America. Pretty much been in the cleaning business my whole life. Our dad, this is my brother, our dad and uncle had a contract cleaning business a long time ago, and then in the mid-90s, switched to consulting, and I've been doing cleaning consulting and software ever since. So glad to be here and excited to be part of the podcast.

Thanks, Tony. As he said, I'm his brother, Vince Mayoni. I'm the director of the sales and marketing here at Core and Smart Inspect, and I've been with the company maybe 15 years, and I've worked all the way from in the field doing inspections or working with our consultants, traveling around. So it's great to be here.

And I just learned that they were brothers. I thought for whatever reason, they were cousins, but I'm jazzed to hear that they're brothers. I can't thank you guys enough for coming on. I've been connected to Tony and Vince now for some time, and I just, from a legacy perspective and from a subject matter expert, just so grateful for everything that Core America and Smart and Spec continue to do for the industry. So just happy to have them and get started. I still will time to time ping Tony and ask him for help. And he's always so kind and jump on a call and walk through all my crazy ideas. So do want to give Tony a shout out for that?

Thank you, Karina. Happy to do it.

Well, the coolest part, guys, is as fellow Innovation and technology committee members and as fellow technology enthusiasts, the depth of experience in this room virtually right now is pretty awesome. And before we dive into our topics today, I want to have a little bit of fun. So we're gonna do some Two Truths and a Lie. Now, it could be about your career, it could be about experiences in the cleaning industry or personal, but you're gonna try and throw Karina and I off your scent. Karina thinks she's a pretty good lie detector person. Going on. So, Tony, let's start with you.

Okay, let's see. I originally had some personal things, but I think it'd be more interesting if I stuck with the career. So go with that. I once did a trip for a consulting client to the Arctic Circle. In my travels, I once Served as a. Mainly a hand model, but let's. Let's say a model in a cleaning industry training book of how to mop and vacuum. Mainly my hands. I once traveled to Europe to three different countries on an inspection trip.

Man.

Quick clarifying question.

Yeah.

Arctic Circle. The fast food chain or the actual Arctic Circle?

Let's go.

Actual Arctic Circle.

Okay. I will tell you guys, as a communications major, 97% of communication is non verbal. And so I. I'm not getting a lot from Tony because he's just standing still. Because that's what I was looking at. Cues and the pauses I was trying to draw on. I'm Kaden. You. You teed up. What do you think? I think I have an inkling as to which one is the lie, but I'm gonna give you the power of the lie detector.

I'm thinking the details on the third option about touring Europe. I think there's some lie in there somewhere. He fibbed some part about it.

Yeah.

He might have actually gone to do the inspection tour, but the numbers weren't exactly what it was.

Actually don't know the answer either. And I'm his brother.

Okay, well. And I. I don't think it's a second because I think Tony's very humble. And so that modeling one, I don't think that he would, like, make that up. So I thought. I think that one's probably true. Arctic Circle. He answered very quickly, so he knew that fact. I think you're right, Kaden. I think the third one is a lie.

Yeah, you're right. You got me.

Yes. Look at that.

You actually go to Europe?

Not for work. I studied abroad there, but never been there for.

When were you at hand?

Right when I start. Right when I started at core. Our father, Tony Senior, he's our CEO and founder. We made a training manual for frontline custodians. Yeah, I just. Just begun working here. We went to some building and I was like, mopping and vacuuming and dad was taking pictures of me, and it turned into our. Our training module.

Wait, I have to see your hands. You have to show me your hands now.

You can't leave holding them up. Just holding him up.

That is amazing, Vince.

I love how you were just like, wait, when were you a hand?

No idea.

I've learned so much.

All right. I lived in LA for work. I'm a scratch golfer. And I was once a hair model.

Okay.

Trying to pull on both. I was looking at Tony's face.

Yeah.

The whole time as well. To my advantage of saying like, which one? He's going to be like, what? But Tony kept a pretty straight face, so.

No. And rolled off his time when he was in la. So I think that's probably true. The model thing. Can it. Is it a coincidence they both were models? They didn't even know that they were both models. Hair model, Scratch golfer. What does that mean, a scratch golfer?

Uh, it means that you golf and you shoot. Even par usually.

Okay, okay, so I'm gonna say. Say that's true because I don't know anything about golf and he does. He probably is doing something with golf. Okay, I'm gonna say. But he does have really good hair. Nice and curly. I definitely think he lived in LA and he knows enough about golf. I'm gonna say he's not a hair model. You were.

Yeah, yeah. Did some local shoots around town.

I should have gone with my gut. Your hair is really good.

Yeah, I did live in la.

I'm not a scratch golfer. That's very good golfer.

Okay. Dang it, Kaden, you help me on that.

I was processing and then he answered it too quickly.

Kaden looks like he could be a hair model. He has a nice fresh coat.

I know, right?

Listen, put the two of you side by side in a magazine or something. Look good.

And last show, I asked him specifically about his hair routine because I'm so impressed. And it's always like, perfect. He's like, it late, takes less than 30 seconds. I'm not doing. I'm like, kaden, there's no way that takes you 30 seconds. I will tell you that right now.

It's good.

Marina. Yeah, I have. Now that you got me curious. Yesterday morning, I timed it. I was gonna text you. I timed it and it took me literally 33 seconds to do my.

That's shenanigans. I need you to actually put the screen up and do it because film.

Myself in front of me.

A tutorial. You and Vince are going to do hair modeling tutorials is what we're going to use.

I mean, Vince being a hair model. All right, so how long does it take you to do your hair? You just throw it in like, Tony, back me up here.

Tony's like, you guys had Vince's hair. I'm jealous.

Gosh. All right, we digress.

Okay, well, Karina, I'm going to hand it over to you for some quick control.

All right, so do check out the latest episode, the ROI Fallacy with John Hill. And the next episode is the great API debate with Gerald from Brightco. So we're talking through an open ecosystem versus a walled garden. Super interesting. I'm very intrigued by that episode. Excited for it. Also so grateful for the CLX turnout I'm manifesting a little bit and also thanking Tony for his leadership on the clx. We had our first virtual clx and this is really going to be always our flagship. So again, we're going to do one every quarter. Three of the four are going to be virtual and then the last one is going to be in person, Vegas. So stay tuned for more Vegas.

It's where all the best stuff happens, right?

That's right.

Yeah. No, really quickly though, before we move on, we have to put this into the like to manifest it. I think we should change the location of the show. Not in Vegas and we should move it back to the east coast too, somewhere new. Because I'm going to tell you, I don't like Vegas. I'm going to say that and I'm going to ride that wave.

Yeah, I'm.

I liked it at first and then after six, seven times it starts to.

I liked the alteration same. It's a lot of fun. Same, I guess had a better turnout from attendees wise. So I'm sure that's why I say it's just like, you know, we're just going to keep it there. I liked when we went to Orlando. Like, it was just, you know, Dallas was a little bit of a flop for me a few years ago. I just hate Dallas. I hate everything about their sports teams.

It's not right. I love Dallas.

The freeway system drove me nuts.

It just not Dallas. Okay.

Okay. Anyways, all right, well, let's dive into the main segment of the show. Clear the cash. And today's topic that Tony and Vince have agreed to debate us and I'm kidding that we're just going to dive into and have fun discussing is the training trap. So when it comes typically to technology, there's training involves around frontline users coming on board and then just the training in general of how people do their jobs and how technology can help and aid in this category. So, Tony or Vince, I want to start off with a question of just the most important aspect of training and when it comes to the cleaning industry as a whole.

Yeah.

Well, I think I'm going to answer your question with kind of a lay of the land of the industry right now that we're seeing. And you know, like, like any of the components of a cleaning program, they each kind of rise and fall in terms of what's most relevant at any given time. And like I said when I was the hand model back in the early days, the training manual training was really kind of focused on in the early to mid 2000s when we were making that manual. And I think other things sort of took its place for a while. And now I think the industry is really at a point where training is becoming extremely critical again and talked about. And I think there are several factors contributing to that. You know, as we talk to our customers and just to kind of give you some context, our customers include a lot of the end users, I call them end users. But colleges, universities, hospitals, corporate cleaning programs, as well as contract cleaning companies. You know, what's happening in the industry right now is a lot of COVID really changed a lot of the dynamics of the industry. A lot of folks that were very experienced decided to retire. And then of course there was a big labor shortage. And to fill that shortage and to backfill retirement, there are a lot of new, a big wave of promotions that have happened in the last five years. A lot of folks that are now in leadership positions or quasi leadership positions that weren't before and maybe were just good technicians. And then on the frontline level there are a lot of new folks just, you know, frontline entry level cleaning jobs which are, you know, obviously super important positions. And so there's a lot of training there. So there's sort of a perfect storm of training being needed and focused on all up and down the line throughout an entire in house or outsourced organization right now. So that being said, I think your, your question of what's the most important aspect of it, I would say actually kind of getting your arms around that problem and then deciding in the time of limited resources and limited time, how do you train all these different stakeholders that have very different needs and are at very different levels of technology and preferences with how they want to be trained. You, when we hire people here, I always ask them in my initial onboarding meetings with them, you know, how do you like to be trained? Is it by doing, by watching, by reading? There's a huge variety there if you just ask somebody. And so, you know, I just think training's such a critical topic, which is why Karina, we we're doing the CLX event as our flagship event. It was born right out of this intense focus right now on training in our industry. So I'm really excited to be here to talk about it because I, I think it's at a critical moment.

Well, and I would just add really quickly too, like one of the things that I have seen from a BSC's perspective. Right. Is if when you're on technology specifically, you need to train with a holistic approach of the technology offering. What I mean by that is like, oftentimes you're training the frontline team members on how to use the tool, but you're not training the area managers or the supervisors how to also use the tool. So then when there's troubleshooting happening in the front line, they don't know who to go to because that middle tier hasn't been trained. The admin team and the management team knows how to use the tool from a high level, but there's definitely a gap or friction point. And so I always. I'm super. I love that you say the stakeholders, Tony, because I think if you really want to have a technology be successful in a training, you have to bring all the stakeholders together so they understand how to use the system or the tool in order for it really to move, you know, and serve the client. Because ultimately, that's what we're asking for. Right?

Yeah. I would add to that why, you know, why are we using the tool? Not just training somebody how to use a tool, but what's the reason we're doing this? And, you know, it shouldn't be we're following you or you. We're adding more work to what you have to do.

It's.

It's a positive change. But, you know, why. I think the why comes first and then the actual training of how to use something.

Do you guys help develop the why for them? I'm curious, from a platform perspective and also from a consultant perspective, are you kind of guiding those principles or are they coming with a problem and the why and then helping and bring it to you and you unpack it with them? Like, what does that look like? What. What does that conversation look like?

Yeah, I think a little bit of both. Like I said.

Right.

Right now people are coming to us with the why. And it's those couple situations I mentioned, especially with leadership training leadership skills, because I think, you know, a good cleaning program in a lot of ways rises and falls on the. On the culture of the program and the whole team buying into the why behind why. They're even cleaning, you know, what's the purpose of a custodian or janitor. And if leadership doesn't get that and get that right for the culture and for the. For the organization, that that foundation is missing and it causes a lot of other problems, a lot of times I would say I'll call them upper leaders or Executives already have that, that need in mind when they come to us. But then I would say on a more micro level we're then kind of getting behind the why with individual people.

Right.

Vince does a lot of that where he'll over the years I'll kind of work with a customer from that high big picture level. But then Vince has to then sit in front of somebody using our quality assurance app for the first time or maybe three people or 10 people and he's got to figure out well how does this matter to that person or that person? I think you have to macro level a lot of times they know what they need but then each person is so individual that you have to then kind of get under their skin and figure out what, how, why it matters to them.

Yeah Vince, I, I want to have you follow up on that. So with Smart Inspect and we've seen these similar patterns at OTVV but let's talk about some data that I'll share and I want to hear if you guys experience the same. But the amount of churn from a frontline employee in this industry in the amount of a two year span, the equivalent of our entire end users on our platform are completely new users. It follows the pattern of the amount of churn that happens on frontline employees. So this concept of constant is never done, ever. Always training on technology, on your processes as a business. Vince, to follow up with what Tony was saying, what do you do to constantly enable this thing that will never go away for the best organizations in the world understand how to train internally but that they have to have a perseverance to like have it just be something that they always have to do and recommit to again and again.

Yeah, I would say we try to do a front line big training for everybody but we'd like to train the trainer as best as we can. We don't know when people leave all the time. So if somebody new comes on and they don't communicate it with us, they need to have the resources internally to then train anybody new. But also just staying on top of it and having the resources available. I don't know what our churn is like that, that, that's.

Yeah, I'll comment on that. It's, it's not quite as high Caden. Cause we do a lot of, we work with a lot of in house organizations that are unionized and there tends to be lower there, especially the education market. But yeah, probably more on the contractor BSC side it's more similar to what you're saying.

Yeah, there Is a funny story. We had a customer in California and they're a very big customer. They had about 60 or 70 people we had to train and they were on all different shifts. Oh, I flew out there with somebody else and we had to do a training at 11pm, 1am and 5am in person with groups of 20 to 30 at a time. It was, it was difficult to train people that are extremely tired.

Yeah.

On a new technology and these different shifts and then will that stick? Is that going to take the next time they go to use any technology that we train them on? So we had to do some follow up trainings and things like that. But in that situation they had a few really good, I would say, stakeholders that knew the program through and through and they were able to take that initial training and then run with it and make sure everyone was comfortable.

Well, and I. That's a perfect segue into my second question. Training is obviously cyclical. Right. Like you need. Maybe not cyclical is the right word, but it evolves. And one of the things that I always see when you're onboarding a new tech platform or tool is how do you do an platform optimization phased approach so that you can not be overwhelmed by all of the offering that these tools have. And so if you tie in training, I'm curious for both of you guys, perspective from the OTB team and the Smart Inspect team. Like how do you line up platform optimization and training so that the user can kind of unlock new features as they're training? It's like first you got to get the inspection tool nailed down and the ratings, whatever, and then the next is analytics and the next. So like what's the approach there?

We, we've evolved in our thinking on that over the years probably because training has evolved like in the early. You know, actually I think Katie, I think OTVV and Smart inspect were kind of around the same time, like 2002. Right. Weren't you around there?

Yeah, 2003 is when we officially launched it.

So, you know, in the early years it was a little different. A lot of it was in person. You know, you didn't have virtual meetings and you might be lucky and be able to figure out a conference call with a bunch of people. But it was mainly a lot of input. We travel all the time and do it and in those cases you can cover more. When you're in person, you can bite off a little more of the platform because they nothing replaces that, you know, in person feel of reading people's body language, whether they're getting it or not, you can move faster or slower, but when you're doing it virtually like more training is nowadays we tend to think of it kind of like a video game. I'm not a huge gamer, but I ones I have played when I was younger. You know, you usually start by you learn some super basic skills and you feel good about that and then you might go deeper into level one, then you might be ready to fight the first boss at the end of that level and you just kind of learn more, more kind of tricks as you go. And so we start simple and really get them just using the basic features first, not even the other modules, not even reporting. And we just kind of set little micro goals and get them excited about easy wins and just trying to build on that.

Well, I was going to ask too. From a culture perspective, I'm curious how much of that impact a successful training program Sounds kind of like a duh. Of course it impacts. But if you one thing is culture, one thing is like mandated. Right. Like a lot of times with core, I think this is an assumption I'm making. Right. There's a lot of strategic partnerships with the clients that the these BSCs are serving. Right. And so the client is working with you guys and they're essentially saying, we've just selected smart Inspector. How do you guys bridge that gap of like, okay, is this part of your culture? What's the training pro? What's the training program within this company culture? Does that play a factor? Like how does that come in play?

I usually start with their mission and vision and core values as a organization. Usually every facility services department has that for just their department within the greater school or hospital or university. And then that's already been discussed, debated and defined. So if you start there and you tie in what you're doing to that and at least, usually the leadership at least is kind of aware of that and that's important to them. Yeah, so I think culture is really important. You have to meet people where they're at too. Like actually this week we have two team members on site at a public university doing leadership training for their management group. And we had to study kind of the situation there in that case, the supervisors are part of the union that the custodians are in and they're at a certain point point in their development as a program for training and they have certain needs. So you can't just assume somebody, you know is ready for a certain aspect of training when they really just need like maybe just start from the basics, like why, why cleaning even matters. I think Issa does a really good job talking about, you know, the meaning, the importance of cleaning. So sometimes you just start there. Other times you sense that the culture is ten years beyond that. And they've not only embraced that, but they're really sophisticated and mature. And then you can kind of jump right into more nuanced training of like, all right, you already know how to inspect now. Now we're going to get into the data analytics or how to use AI to enhance it, or how to tie your inspections to your CMMS platform. So you just kind of got to do your homework ahead of time, not make any assumptions. And then again, I like to start at the high level of what's. What are their core values and kind of their vision for a department.

I was also going to add drill in a little bit because I know from my perspective, I always like to know, okay, what does this really look like from a logistics perspective when you're training? What I mean by that is like, our companies, from your, from your guys's lens, they providing cell phones for the team members, Is it a phone allowance situation? Like, those are questions that I know BSCs have, because I've had them and I've had those bins. I'm curious to see, like, did that, does that come up a lot? Like, what percentage of your clients are actually giving the team members cell phones versus having a phone allowance type of program?

Yeah, that's a great question. It comes up a lot, I would say, yeah. I mean, especially when you have larger teams because different technology out there is cheaper. So devices, if you want iPhones or Androids, it just kind of depends on the team. But I would say I see a pretty 50, 50 split on an allowance for them using their device to use whatever technology smart inspect versus purchasing devices and maybe keeping them shift by shift. So you're not buying everyone a device, but when somebody comes in, they log into it. So you're still tracking individual performance, but you're not breaking the bank with buying 100 iPads for your, for your.

For your team.

But it does come up a lot.

Well, and it was used to come up for me when we were trying to implement clean code, right? It was, okay, we can give you a phone. The first kind of rub was, well, I'm using my phone and the data, right? I have to pay for extra data and is, what does that look like for me? So we're like, okay, we'll do a phone allowance for you. Well, how much? How do you categorize and we landed anywhere from $10 to $15 biweekly for them. Which is fair, right? Because the data is really that at that time that system was a QR code based technology. There was no apps. I was just going to a website. But I know from a like a dollar value perspective companies are looking at like, okay, what does it look like to give people phone allowance? And also how do you charge the client? Do you charge the client for Cormac? I think it's a little bit different for other companies that are bringing this tool to their clients. Do they charge them for it or is that a cost that they incur?

We used to, in the early years. I don't. So O2V was clean, intelligent. You'll have to answer. I'm curious, Kate, how you would answer this, but we used to be sort of in the hardware side of it as well. And we had these. Dell. I wish I had one on my desk. We had these. Really? Vince might have one. Before there were apps, we had these like IPACs. Yeah, there you go.

So that's familiar.

You had to pop in a SD card and the program would run on that. And we were very much in the hardware. We were setting them up, we were mailing them and they break and someone sent it back. And then we got into barcoding and we were sending these expensive barcode units to our customers and helping them print barcode labels. So we used to definitely be in that world and then we completely got out of that world. So now we, we don't get involved in the actual device other than giving them some guidance. But that's all on them. We just provide the application and the platform. And the only other thing I was going to say is that what's tricky about our industry is the frontline workforce is not generally mobilized in terms of getting a company phone yet other than maybe some day porters or specialty positions or certain, certain, certain customers that are kind of more invested in technology have done that. But I would say at least 80% of the frontline workforce does not have a company phone and therefore would not feel comfortable probably running an app that they have to use and pay for on their personal device. So that's something that I don't know if you see that too. Kayden. But just the little challenge that we are constantly debating, wondering, you know, is that going to catch up at some point or every janitor, custodian will have a frontline phone or will it never be there because of the economics of our industry? And so that's an important question to.

Think about, I think security too. Um, that, that comes up a lot. You know, trying to explain to them that there's no on premise server. We're not tying into your network. You know, it's, it's a SaaS based, that's cloud based. Lot of, a lot of roadblocks in the beginning. Talks with the company is, you know, the security is a big, you know, big topic that comes up a lot.

Same with connectivity though. I think to that point, like we were having issues with connectivity in these large class a buildings in D.C. and we weren't able to perform the inspections. And so then we created the offline app capability within Quora so that they could still perform that inspection. And so property teams were like, you can connect to our WI fi so that you have it or you can use the offline capabilities. But to your point, Vince, I think when you're dealing with gsa, for example, or secure spaces, there's no way you can tap into their WI fi. They would not allow it. So you have to do mobile or cellular data. And so how do you like, set realistic expectations when you do these trainings? And see, these are some of the blockers you're going to face.

Yeah. And same thing with photos and restrooms and things like that.

Yeah.

If you're in a healthcare space, then you have to worry about hipaa sometimes are you taking a picture and somebody's in the background. So, you know, there's, there's a lot of different, you know, tributaries that go into the launch.

Yeah. I will tell you a horror story from that. We have these proof of service reports. We had them. We still, they still have them. But I remember one of our clients saw one of those reports and the picture was from the bathroom, somebody's feet, and they were like, oh, you can't take a picture. Like all your apologies. We didn't realize because for them they're just doing a proof of service. The team members. Right. So just that training, the evolution and there's a lot of people turning, new team members are coming in. So how do you make sure that they understand how to use the technology in a way that you're sensitive to security and all of the, all of the things.

Yeah.

What's fascinating is the fact that this, this conversation is happening like about 10 years ago, Tony, and maybe you experienced this when, you know, the, that Palm Pilot was still a thing on, you know, showcased on a website like the, the conversation has evolved and it's being challenged more. But the, these are things that are concerning for some. I mean, there's phones that aren't allowed in certain facilities to this day, especially in government facilities. And so, you know, people are taking a pen and paper process in there to go upload it later. And so. But the industry is evolving and we're seeing a lot more relaxation on the fact and understanding that 75% of the world has a smartphone. Right. And we're getting to the point where unlimited data is the norm. Right. The idea, like, if we were to all go back when cell phones came out and. Or before texting became just standard unlimited, you paid by the amount of text you could send in a month.

It was free after 9:00pm Right, exactly.

You know, all of these things that, like the industries of technology have evolved in telecommunications especially that. I think what we will see is our ability to go through an adoption rate, continue to scale and skyrocket in the next few years alone.

Well, and I would also challenge us to talk through the language barrier. That's another thing that's a huge component of this. I remember when I was at UIC in training, there was like 14 team members, all spoke Spanish, obviously, but I had to do the training in English and in Spanish. And the training is different. It's completely different. I can run through it, but from a technical perspective, mine's like Spanglish. Right. And so for them, when I was training, I remember it was much more like cultural training and emotionally training them through it because they're very fearful of what's happening. From an English perspective, it was more like, these are the features and the functions and how you do it. And so it's a huge issue for when I was having conversations with building service contractors, like, who's training them? Can you train in Spanish? What does it look like for them? And I'm curious, you guys have, I'm sure, training in English and in Spanish, right?

Yeah, we. We have some Spanish speakers on our team and we've done a lot of translating. But a lot of it goes back to what Vince said earlier is training the trainer. You know, we don't try to replace kind of the systems they already have in place to teach, you know, the frontline staff that maybe have different language backgrounds. So, you know, we really, again, in those situations, we. We have some capability and we could certainly help. But nothing replaces someone on their own team that knows those little nuances and knows the cultural. Different cultural aspects so that we, again, we kind of go back to that concept with that.

Yeah, well, it's so funny. The other thing That I remember too, from, like, really, really nitty gritty is like, I would be on site and helping them understand how to use, like, just scan the QR code. And some models of Android, you can't do it through a camera. You have to download something on Google Play Store, right? And they're like, how do I do that? I don't know how to do that. I don't have credits. And so I would carry Google Play Store gift cards just in case, because I needed to be able to download the app on it. And so they're like, then it was an. If it was a free app to scan the QR code. There's just so many different, like, variables that come up and you're like, holy smokes, I didn't realize it. So then you have to add that to your training manual. It's like, how do you download the app? How do you scan QR code? How do you do this?

A lot of questions on what's my Apple password?

Yeah, I don't know.

Not sure what your Apple password is.

And it's almost impossible to get it. I will tell you, when I lost mine, I'm like, oh, so basically I have no phone.

Just.

I've done a training before where at the end of the training, I thought everything was great. And then four people put their hands up and they weren't even in the technology to begin with. Maybe on the website, it's like, yeah, you really have to build it on the front end. You know, especially with people that aren't. That tech enabled that stuff.

I know. Troubleshooting is a real thing.

Yeah. Karina, when you were talking about the QR code thing, I thought of a story. This is years ago when you used to have a dedicated QR code scanning app. It's more native functionality today. But those apps often fed ads according to the user's behavior on their phone. Yeah, well, we. We got a complaint of inappropriate ads when they scanned our QR code. And we're like, that has nothing to do with us. Because the client saw this inappropriate ad and they're like, how would you ever allow this into your technology? You're like, that's not ours.

Yeah, that is hysterical. 100% anyways.

But we're. We're coming up on time. I like to end each episode. Karina doesn't like the name Porcelain. Thought she made that well known in a text to me after our last episode. But we don't have a new one.

Because I think of toilet. Every time you say Porcelain, I think of Toilet. I know, I just don't know.

Totally appropriate for the, for the cleaning industry. But basically it's just the one takeaway from, from you, Tony, and from you, Vince. We'll keep just to you two today on like the one thing that you would want people to remember and take away when it comes to training their employees.

Yeah, I'll go, I'll go first. I think the one takeaway would be to personalize it. You know, I found even training our own organization or any organization, if you could bring it down to the human level of the people sitting in front of you or on the screen with you, they're much more receptive. And to do that, you know, there are other things that go with that, like doing your homework and knowing who's going to be on the call and what level stakeholder they are and what they probably are going to be wondering or feeling. All of that plays into personalizing it. And I think you get your best results. And even if you're not perfectly trained, by the end, they at least know like you've at least started a personal relationship with them and then you can build on that. So that would be my one main takeaway.

Yeah, I would say mine is similar to that. I was going to say conversation rather than preach, likes to just get told, do this, do this, press this. I mean, it's after five minutes of you talking and someone listening, they. They're probably somewhere else. So as Tony said, personalizing it, having a conversation with them, learning where they're at and just kind of take it from there.

You can tell he's my younger brother. That's been preached to a lot over the years. So very sensible.

Now I understand the dynamic.

Yeah.

Tony's like, yeah, that's a new social hashtag. Don't preach.

I read you, Vince. I read you loud and clear.

Loud and clear. Awesome. Well, guys, thanks for joining. To all of you, those of you listening to the episode, I hope you caught something. It's not always what is taught, it's what is caught. So I hope you caught something from today's discussion with Tony and Vince. Guys, it's been a privilege to have you on board and awesome discussion. So thanks everyone.

Thanks for having us.