미국에 30년 살고서 깨닫게 된 영어 잘하는 법 | 미국 주립대 교수, 30년차 실리콘밸리 개발자, 한기용 멘토

I didn't study English at all.

And now you're a professor at a major university here.

At Yahoo, I was promoted first 4 years. You don't have to speak perfect English. People don't care who you are, just express it. My name is Kyung Han. I currently live in San Jose, California. It will be 26 years as of next June.

I take it you like living in California then?

Yeah. Whenever I come to San Francisco Airport from Korea, I feel liberated. No one cares about me. Second, weather is so good.

Gotta love that California weather. What first brought you to California?

I majored in computer science back in Korea, and I got my bachelor and master, and I started my career at Samsung Electronics as a Windows application developer, and I stayed there for 5 years, and it was actually military obligation. And it was supposed to end May 2000. So I was looking for my next move from summer of '99. And my classmate from college, he went to Stanford for master's, and he co-founded a company called MySimon. And he sold it to CNET at $700 million. And then he started his second company. And that's when he offered me to join his second startup.

Wow.

I didn't have any plan to live outside of Korea at all. Because of that, I didn't study English at all. So when I moved June 2000, I wasn't really ready in terms of language.

Now your English is great. How did you—

Yeah, I'm not so sure. Yeah, along the way I made a lot of mistakes. I still do.

That's part of learning.

Yeah.

Do you have any specific memory, like a funny moment, one of those mistakes you made?

Yeah, I have so many. A lot of them are situational. It's not just the language, it's a combination of language, culture, and new situation you never been to. So here in California, there are a lot of drive-through restaurant. One day I came to In-N-Out and then they were asking me a bunch of options. Actually, they are not asking that many options. Only option is onion. So I wasn't really ready. And then they are asking whether I want grilled onion, chopped onion. I just say yes, yes, yes, yes. I developed drive-through phobia since then. Still, whenever I went to In-N-Out or any drive-through, I'm a little bit nervous.

That's fair. It's really tricky with the speaker. It's harder to hear. So many options. Like, even I get a little nervous sometimes. How did you improve your English from then until now?

I think first thing I realized is that listening is far more important than speaking. Writing is always hard, but these days with AI, it's not a big problem anymore. But back then, I thought I need to improve listening first. Otherwise, I cannot understand what others are saying. Then you cannot react. So I spent a lot more time on improving my listening. And back then, Friends was very popular. So I was listening to Friends, dictation, And then mirroring, things like that. But if you don't know the words or expression, your hearing is not going to improve. Or sometimes they pronounce so quickly, like instead of "auto," "auto." And to make things even worse, here so many diverse ethnic groups. And especially as a developer, you work with a lot of Chinese and Indian. Now I can understand Chinese accent and Indian accent without any problem. But back then, It was one of the hardest things. So part of the improving listening is actually learning more words, expression, and basically exposed to a lot of conversation, interacting with more diverse group of people so that you can get used to, and it's just a matter of time.

It's really impressive to hear how you first came here and going through a drive-through was difficult, and now you're a professor at a major university here. Mm-hmm. Speaking in front of lots of students, giving lectures, would you say that your confidence has really bloomed?

Oh yeah, yeah. So that's actually one thing I developed. First, I was shy and I was worried whether I'm conveying my idea, especially in English. But over time, I kind of developed more confidence and now I have thicker skin. So if I don't understand just say, "Repeat one more time for me." And if I feel like they are not understanding me, I also repeat what I'm trying to convey. So in that regard, over time, with age, I became more relaxed. That helped me. And another thing is language is a means to communicate. So if you can speak perfect pronunciation, syntax, it will be even better. But more important thing is the tone. Manner, body language, your attitude, all combined, you interact with other people. That's something I learned. It took a while, and that made me more confident in terms of speaking English and interacting with other people.

I love your perspective on that. Language is to communicate. You don't have to be perfect 100% of the time.

Yeah, yeah.

If you can kind of get your message across, then you did it. You're successful. I actually heard that you have a Aora English. Is that right?

Yes.

Can you explain that a little bit? Yeah.

So whenever I talk to founders back in Korea who wants to enter global market, US market in particular, they are concerned about two things. One, visa, which is the hardest. Second is the language. And many said, I cannot speak good English and I need to convince like VC or potential customers and they need to talk to future talent who might be their team members. And I kept telling them, as long as you can convey your vision, mission, and that's what matters. In Silicon Valley, two-thirds of the founders are not born in America. It's a majority immigrant community, and some of them speak very good English, some of them are not. But I have seen non-native, not so great English founders making big success. So here, how you can convey your vision, mission is far more important than speaking perfect English. I kept telling them you should have oral English or speak with confidence. It can be a little bit broken. That's totally fine.

I heard a funny story about your daughter talking about your English.

Is that right?

Yeah.

She and I speak Korean and English mixed. When she was in high school, I didn't know, but I was saying this expression, "Back in the days," as in plural, not singular. I think it kind of bothered my daughter, so she told me that, "Dad, I can understand what you are saying, but 'back in the days' is not natural. 'Back in the day' in singular is more natural." It was a big shock because I've been using that expression over a decade. And no one correct me.

And your daughter called you out.

So I told her that if you notice any more such wrong expression, unnatural expression, tell me so that I can improve my English. And then she said, then I have to interrupt you every other sentence and we cannot have a proper conversation. And she said, that's totally okay, Dad. You can convey your ideas. That's what matters.

I love that. And going back to career stuff, I guess, so you said you worked at Udemy, right? Can you talk a little bit about that, like Udemy, and then also what you're doing now?

In 2000, I moved to Silicon Valley and I worked for web search startup my friend co-founded. The company was acquired by another company which was LookSmart, which happens to be Sookie's company in New York, right? What a small world.

That is crazy.

So I stayed there for 6 months, the company declared that they're going to let go entire search division. So from there on, I prepared a lot of interviews and I joined Yahoo. It was February 2004. And at that time I had a first kid and I didn't have green card and I didn't make much money in the first 4 years here. So the situation weren't that great. But that made me be more hungry. So at Yahoo, I met great managers, coworkers, and I was promoted first 4 years in a row and I became a director of engineering and I learned interviewing, hiring, onboarding, giving feedback. And then eventually, after 7 years of stay at Yahoo, I quit. It took some courage because it was comfortable and salary was good, but the company wasn't doing well. Google was beating Yahoo in every sense. So eventually I left and I joined another small startup which couldn't secure next round of funding. So the company went bankrupt. So that's when I decided to take a year break. A lot of people ask me what kind of plans I had. When I took a year break, I didn't have any plan. It was more like an out-of-whim, at-the-moment decision, which I don't regret and turned out to be the best decision in my career. It made me stop, reflect, and what direction I need to go in the second half of my career. At the time of my gap year, my number one goal was finding my dream. I never had dream until then. But just because you have time doesn't mean you'll find the dream. It's totally independent. But I realized that as I was working for my former coworkers' companies as a part-time, finding a place where you can make an impact is far more important. You just feel you are alive. So with that lesson, second half of my career, I decided only work for smaller companies, startups. That was the main decision. And I joined a company called Polyvore, and then I joined Udemy. So that was 2014, and I stayed there for 4 years. And since Udemy, I took another break. First gap year or sabbatical, I was more anxious. But second time, I was really I was eager to start because from the first lesson I learned that nothing bad happened. So second break, I had more fun. I did whatever I wanted to do. So now I teach at San Jose State at Applied Data Intelligence Master Program, and I do angel investment career coaching for individuals. And I've been writing books as well. So recently I published a book called Leadership Practice. I didn't write it explicitly for the sake of publishing. I've been writing all the lessons I learned in the past two decades. It became this thick, and then I summarize, and then became a book.

Wow, that is an incredible story. Kind of took a different path in life, I would say. You went from the bigger companies to the smaller companies, and it all worked out for you, and now you're inspiring Young Minds and coaching other people on how they can do the same thing. So that's really incredible. Can you talk a little bit or maybe give advice about leadership since that's what your book is on?

Oh yeah, leadership is not a born talent. It's more of a skill, meaning you have to practice along the way. You are going to make mistakes. As long as you don't repeat the same mistake over and over, that's totally fine. If you say I'm going to be a good leader in 6 months, you are going to fail and you are going to blame your talent, not your persistence or consistency. So one lesson: have a longer time horizon and build small habits which can compound over time. I think that's the biggest lesson I realized after I became over 50. When I was younger, I thought strong motivation, but strong motivation can go so far, right? So with a longer time horizon, be composed, be consistent, and they will compound and you will have much larger lasting success.

I feel like this can apply to learning a language as well.

Exactly.

A lot of people say, I want to be fluent in a month or 6 months. But like you said, it's a long journey.

Yeah, like 10 minutes or 30 minutes a day over a few years, your language will be so much better. In terms of English at work, as an individual contributor, your English is not that important. But once you become a manager, you have to convey feedback. So how you speak what words, expression you pick up are going to be really important. So that's when I was really paid attention to a lot of other good managers, how they speak, like during meetings or when they give feedback to other people. Second thing is that's when I started reading a lot of books on business leadership, which I had no interest at all. There is two books I highly recommend. One is Crucial Conversations, which made me a better person as a manager, coworker, husband, father, things like that. Second book is a sister book of Crucial Conversations. It's Crucial Confrontation. Mm-hmm. So this one is more from work environment. As a manager, how you can give feedback. So those two books, one, I learned a lot. Second, there are great English expressions. So I wrote them down, memorized, and whenever I keep feedback, I rehearse with those expressions.

I feel like I should read the Crucial Confrontation book, actually. I could probably use some help with that. Can you talk about some of the differences you might have noticed between working in Korea versus working in the U.S.?

Here in America, especially in Silicon Valley, there are a lot of people with big dreams. They are not shy in terms of expressing what they want. Korean people in general don't act like that. So if you want to be more successful and recognized here, I think you have to talk about your ambition, your dream. Don't limit yourself. Don't be too self-conscious. Just express it. So that would be number one thing. And second thing, here it's more individualistic. People don't care who you are. So I think here you can pursue your dream without being conscious of what others think of you. But in back in Korea, it's more collectivism. So people care about others' opinion. Instead of going your own way, people wants to go with what others are going. And that actually translates into working hours as well. So in Korea, a lot of people, their definition of work-life balance is when I'm in office, I work. When I'm out of office, I don't work. Office is becoming a boundary. But in America, at least in my experience, people are not really creating that type of boundary. Whenever you have some important work, even outside of office, people can still work or they always think about the work. But at the same time, if your kid is sick or you are sick, it's completely okay to work from home or go home early or report to work late. So in general, where you are during work hours don't really matter. So if you are motivated, people don't care about number of hours and people have longer hours of work. Another difference is here the compensation can dramatically different. Back in Korea, just because you work longer hours and achieve more doesn't necessarily translate into a much better compensation. But here there is a big difference.

Was it difficult for you at first to adjust to the American work culture?

I didn't have much problem. I feel like it suited me better. I don't like drinking. I mean, drinking for fun is okay, but drinking for the sake of drinking, I didn't like that.

That's true, the hoesik culture. Do you find that at the American companies you've worked at, there's a lot of Is team culture still like eating together or drinking together?

If there is a hasek, then it's mostly lunchtime. And whenever there is a gathering, weekend, it will be family. Team members will bring their family. It's more family-oriented. But sometimes I miss drinking beer on the way home. There's no such thing here.

A lot of companies now are talking about going global. Do you think it's necessary or not?

Depending on domain you are aiming for, Korean market might be big, but a lot of times I don't think it's big enough. So if you're going to suffer as a founder, you better suffer for bigger market, bigger opportunity. So that's a common mistake a lot of Korean founders make, which is in Korea is small. So if you start smaller domain, you have to add a lot of additional features so that you can cover more horizon. But in America, you don't have to do that. Small segment is big enough. So I think that's probably the biggest mindset change. And second similar thing is in Korea, there are a lot of regulation. So if you are accustomed to regulation, you don't think outside of the box. And with that mindset in America, you might start too small. So I have seen founders who avoided regulation in Korea and carved out a business. And then when they moved to America, they realized that there is no such regulation. So those are the things you are not in America, you never realize. So I think whether you enter global market or not, I highly recommend come to America or go to Japan or any other country and see what kind of opportunities are there.

So you told us about your book that was recently released. Do you have any other projects that you're working on now?

For now, I'll continue to work as an adjunct professor at San Jose State. State. Other than that, another sort of potential project which I hope to work on is writing a novel. It's sort of converting leadership book I wrote into some characters and plot, things like that, so that people can relate better and understand better. And maybe if that goes well, convert that into cartoon or things like that.

I read so many novels, so I'll wait for this. I'll be looking forward to this.

Thank you. Again, thank you for inviting me, and it's an honor to be in this channel. And for the subscriber or viewers of the channel, you don't have to speak perfect English. Just be persistent, consistent. Time is the most important factor. As long as you are consistent, it will compound. Over time, and your language will be so much better. So don't give up. Continue to work, study. And I highly recommend Callie's book, which was really great and which my wife really liked.

Thank you so much. Thank you. It was such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I learned a lot and I genuinely enjoyed our conversation.

So thank you. Thank you.

Pleasure was all mine. If you want to learn more about leadership, make sure to check out his book. We will leave the link below in the comments. Thank you so much for watching, and we will see you next time. Bye!