Chart, Delegate and Thrive | Head of Client Success for Ninety.io, Christine Watts (Podcast 286)

Great thing that we do have is just our responsibilities chart where you can go through every single person's roles and understand is this still important to me? And so we have that pre baked into our one on ones with managers and direct reports. How many hours are you spending on these individual roles every single week? And then let's have an open, honest conversation. If you're spending way too much time in a specific area, are there things within there that you can drop down and delegate?

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Second in Command podcast where we unveil the heroes behind successful organizations. Today we've got a remarkable guest with us, Christine Watts, who's the head of customer success at a software platform called 90io. Christine has been the driving force between 90io's incredible growth, taking the company from 25 to 120 employees in just three years. They've also secured two rounds of funding in their series A and B rounds, propelling them to new heights, allowing them to add some incredible new employees as well. Their software is being used by EOS implementers and integrators in 26 countries, making a global impact. And Christine's expertise extends to knowing when to say no to clients whose software feature requests don't align with the company's vision. Her Colby profile As a fact finder8643 greatly aids in her gathering relevant information in her role. And additionally, her ability to deliver difficult news has proven invaluable in her position. Join us as we delve into Christine's incredible journey and glean insights from her experiences at the forefront of Nadia IO's success. Hopefully you'll also be checking us out on our second in command YouTube channel, as well as listening to wherever podcasts are listening to as well. We'll see you on the inside. You're going to love this episode. Christine, welcome to the Second in Command podcast.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Yeah, really looking forward to learning from you today, learning about you today, and also just kind of diving in deeper into the company that you run. So I've really been intrigued with 90io for a few years now. A bunch of years. I think I bumped into Gino Wickman, who started traction probably 12 years ago now, and you guys kind of got involved in and around the EOS space pretty early in building software. Can you walk us through that kind of path, where you got or how you got to where you are today?

Yeah, so we were started, there were three founders, two of them were EOS implementers. And so it was kind of a product that came out of them coaching. You know, Mark, our CEO right now, will talk about how he's had the vision for, you know, 10 years before that timeframe even too. But we got started as a product that was kind of just generic in the marketplace for business management. And we said we were compatible with eos cause we didn't have a license relationship. And a lot of EOS implementers used us and loved us. And then eventually we kind of moved into more of a formalized partnership with EOS over the years. We got started in 2016, launched out of beta in 2017, and I joined in January 2017 as the first non developer. So there were two developers on board and then it was just the three founders other than that and saying that.

It was kind of compatible with eos. Was it by design? Like did they intentionally say, hey, it looks like EOS is. Because that was almost at the pinnacle of eos's growth as well.

Yeah, exactly. And it was, it was really interesting initially. So we, we were completely in that community, right. So going to the conferences, you know, the very first conference, and working within the community of coaches. But software was a very new concept to people in terms of they had always been taught software is bad. So software means you're distracted, you're not in the meeting room when things are happening. And so we built it specifically around EOs. Run your level 10 meetings, have your accountability chart, your VTOS right there, knowing that the world was heading in that direction. So software can be a partner and it's not like the enemy when you're going into those situations. It helps you stay on track, keep recording. But there was that bit of pushback and learning curve for people when we initially launched that. We had to make them feel comfortable with that concept, especially the coaches.

Well, it's interesting because for years I'd said that Gino really missed a massive opportunity. They were training thousands of companies how to use the operating system. And then after a year or two they were like, okay, bye bye to the implementer. And it was just the visionary and the integrator kind of self implemented internally. Yeah, they didn't have any SaaS model, they didn't have any software. They never. And they were using all the systems, but there was no ability to keep them. And then you guys kind of came along and jumped on that. But you're expanding outside of EOS now as well. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?

Yeah, that's right. And it's, it's really interesting hearing the people that you talk to on the podcast too, because a lot of them have roots in a specific operating system. So whether they're using scaling up or eos or whatever it is, those kind of foundations are really important because as you're a small company, you, you need to have those kind of guardrails on to say we need to save ourselves from making bad decisions like we know the framework we need to use. But as you expand and get bigger and you have a coach and there's more complexity, being able to customize your solution to something that actually works for your organization is huge. And that's the area that we're working into now. So being able to work with partners just like EOs that have their own business operating systems, offering our own templates up for companies that might want to use those as well, then just offering more customizable solutions like your weekly meeting, maybe it's the same at the leadership level, but as you get into your marketing team, your ops team, finance, you have specific things that you want to pull into that meeting. Maybe you want to change the time frame, but the purpose is all the same. We need to be identifying our issues, looking at if things are on track. And so those are just all ways that we're looking to really enhance the client experience and make sure that everybody can get what they want out of it.

It's interesting you mentioned scaling up. So I've known Vern for 25 years and I think he took the Rockefeller habits and overcomplicated it with scaling up. You almost need to have 200 plus employees for scaling up to work. In my mind it's a great system, but yeah. And then I'm friends with Andy Bailey who built the Align software and Patrick T and who built the Rhythm software. I've known the community forever. Are you moving into that kind of more corporate or more mid sized company operating system or are you stay more in the small to midsize zone?

We're really looking to hit both because like I said, you want to have the specific framework that the small, let's say 10 to 250 want to use, which is really the EOS market sweet spot. But even for us internally, we're not going to be under a 250 employee company forever. Right now we're at 120, we're scaling rapidly and so anytime we're making decisions internally, we almost have that client facing mindset to say would we teach our clients to do this and how would we make it a process, a system, something in the software that helps them do that as well, and so as we're scaling ourselves, we're definitely looking to go up to that. Companies with 2,000 employees should be able to use our software. And not only that, the complexity there, maybe there's a PE firm and all of the companies they manage use it, and that's a really easy way for them to have insight and access and be able to coach those organizations or as you're aware of franchise organizations being able to have the franchisor and the franchisees underneath. So there's just a lot of opportunities there that haven't been explored yet.

Are you looking at the franchisor space?

Yeah, yeah, we are right now and we work with a variety of them right now, more on the individual level. But there's a bunch of franchise organizations where they have that specific operating system, whether it's EOS or another at the franchisor level, and they try and get their franchisees to use it as well. So we're exploring that space right now.

Interesting. I was the, I was the second in command for a company called 1-800-got- junk and. And it grew them from 2 million to 106 million in six years. But there was a group out of Vancouver, I can't remember what it was called, Water Street, I think it was, that was trying to do franchising software, but they never really got to that next level. But yeah, it's gotta be a huge market. And then I love that you mentioned going after the PE firm space and kind of helping them manage and oversee their capital or deployed capital by. Is there some pickup in that idea as well?

Yeah, there's a handful that already use us for it. And so it's, it's one of those things where you, the software is great, you can use it as is right now, but you're makeshifting a little bit of the solution because you can be in multiple companies, but you can't share information across those. And sometimes there's people that need to be in multiple and they want to see all of their tasks in one place as an example. So there's tweaks and things that we need to do to make it even better, but we do have organizations using it in that capacity right now.

When your software company, like when you're building software and you're building a SaaS model, how do you know when to say no to certain customer requests versus saying yes to all of them?

We've done a very specific methodology around this and I often have to explain it to clients too. Right. Because there's feature requests coming in all the time. And that's one thing I love about our market. People are so engaged and you never have to pay for product interviews, client interviews, whatever it is. They want to give you the feedback. They want to get on the phone with the PMs. But we really use a rule of 80%. Is this an 80% solution? 80% for all of our clients. And so taking it that lens, we actually have a full smack built out around that. We're able to use the tools ourselves is a big one. So we would never develop anything that we wouldn't be able to use. We see ourselves as our own target market. So there are certain things like that that we really put through the filter and make sure we're creating the right thing. And then there's a range of features that you're going to develop. Mark, the CEO is on the far end of the range of I want to start building things right now that people aren't even asking for because he's got that visionary mindset. Whereas internally, the product managers are looking at, well, here's the feature requests that are coming in. And how can we develop and create something that's going to be adding depth to the platform right now?

Did you guys raise money?

We did, yep. Through Insight.

And can you talk about how that process went? I don't know if you can talk about how much you raised, but what was the process of raising money and what did you learn through that process?

2020, I think is when it really started, because Covid really, like, we started taking off at that point, so everybody was moving to their houses or like, I need a way to. Again, that conversation of something like software, which was the enemy before to a lot of companies, they're realizing, oh, I need this in order to keep all of my people on track and be able to communicate well. So we had a lot of firms reaching out to us just purely based on our numbers. Insight came along. We went through an interesting process where we had an initial raise and then as contingent on hitting numbers, we had a secondary Series A with them. So add on funding.

How did the process change the company? How did it change the way that you operate?

Really just able to hire more and accelerate growth. I don't think we fundamentally change too much. Like, especially from our perspective, we're not owned by them or anything like that. So being able to control ownership and control our own vision and destiny, I think was a huge part of that. And making sure we maintain that the hiring aspect has been huge. I would say three Series A, I Want to remember the number of employees, but it was probably around 25 and now, yeah, we're at 120. So just able to really like let our departments experience some depth there was nice.

Yeah. When you go through 5x growth in employees, that drastically changes the whole company too. Have you gone from having a management team to a true leadership team now?

We definitely adopt that kind of super flat mentality. So our leadership team, people sitting below our CEO, we have 10 there. So a lot of people would say, wow, that's way too many. It ends up working out really well. We're still able to make great decisions. Again, we've had to like tweak our process a little bit. So like our quarterly planning meetings are two days instead of one day. Every quarter we're looking at things and seeing how can we tweak that agenda to make sure we're talking about the right things up front to make the right decisions in the room. So there's little things like that that we need to adjust. But other than that, I would say being able to maintain that flat organization has let a lot of people work autonomously and we're doing a lot of work around that right now. As we continue to scale, making sure our teams are set up in a way. Like on the engineering side, we have a PODS model. So product managers, designers, engineers all work in a team of no more than seven to 10 people and they're assigned to an individual tool. And so that lets them make decisions, have the information they need and develop against that tool without all of the bureaucracy of needing to like go through approvals and things like that.

One of the questions I've got around your software, which is so different from so many companies, is in the EOS world, it's pretty quite easy to get companies that use EOS to use the 90io software because the methodology is understood. You know, they understand the systems, they understand why they're using the systems, they understand why software is going to help them manage the systems. But there's lots of companies out there. In fact, like the vast, vast majority of companies don't use any operating system whatsoever. You know, they've got one, but it's not, it's not like a scaling up or three hag way or, you know, it's not like a system that's branded, that's been replicatable. How do you educate that market at the same time as getting them to use your software? Is there a coaching component to your software or a consulting component, or are you finding that there's a Pain point that they're, they're saying I just need to get rid of the pain. So we'll figure out how to use the software.

It's interesting because that's the exact thing we're working on right now. So we finally, now that we have really full fledged marketing team, creative team, we're going out there and trying to educate against those pain points. To bring net new people in that are pos unaware is kind of what we call them internally. They're not aware that they even need an, an operating system at this point. But really this is kind of the core reason we haven't even had a sales team internally even right now because we have such a product market fit within these specific groups. So really the coaches, the EOS implementers, they act as our sales force. They're the ones out there that are really identifying the client base and bringing them in. Other people find us really just organically. We probably have like a 6040 split in terms of companies that are already have a coach and are coming to us or that are not coached. But we're really looking at that uncoached market right now and identifying ways that we can go after them better. And we really see ourselves internally as a technology platform, support and service oriented and learning oriented. So we have a full education team where they're actually building out content and resources that are really the context and concepts behind the software. Because to your point, you can't just come in and start using it. It's not. We're going to start setting up a new CRM and here, let's go.

Right.

It's so much change management that has to happen within an organization. And so you really can't sell that to an organization right now. Right. We have to go through that process of understanding like what are your needs, where are you at? And if it's not a fit right now, we're here and we'll send you the resources you need until it's a better fit.

It's interesting. I've been an advisor to a company called 15Five for the last nine years. I'm an investor in the company as well. And one of the things that we noticed in their growth is that when companies that are using their software, when employees get fired or quit and move to another company, the software migrates over. Are you starting to see that at all when you know, executives move to other firms and then they're taking your software, they're staying a customer, but at a new company?

Yeah, we've definitely seen that a fair amount. And even on the point we're on the client success side, I'm like, man, I'd love to figure out how we can follow our clients on LinkedIn and be more proactive around that approach too. It's very cool. Especially for me. I'll have people email me and reach out just because I feel like my face and name are out there just in the YouTube universe as it's tied to 90 and have those same comments of I used it here and now I'm at a new role.

Let's talk a little bit about your growth kind of through the trajectory in the last three years. Really when you go from 25 employees to 120, how have you had to emerge and grow as a leader? Where have you had to grow?

Really? Just the delegation aspect. And I feel like so much goes into the people that we're hiring and in the context that we're providing them. Because initially you're bringing people in and they're just asking, how can I help? How can I help? And when you're answering emails till midnight and then waking up at 6am because there's bugs and like you don't have time to even think about how somebody can jump in and help you. But we really turned a corner in terms of whether it's the people we that we had coming in or just I feel like my own maturity and providing more context around situations. Here's what we're doing, here's the landscape, here's the direction we're going. People started saying here's what I need to do in order to take more off whoever's plate it was and they're able to be more proactive in that way. So as a leader I feel like I'm constantly stretching that muscle of how can I give more information in context, whether it's behind decisions or just how we're seeing the market move or anything like that in order to let our people be more autonomous and grow.

So you mentioned delegation. It's interesting. That's one of the 12 core modules in my invest in your leaders course is delegation. Do you have a system that you use for delegating and can you kind of walk us through some of your thoughts around delegation?

I would say we, we should have a better one. You know, there's so many things that are kind of like pre baked into how we operate, but a great thing that we do have is just our responsibilities chart where you can go through every single person's roles and understand is this still important to me? And so we have that pre baked into our one on ones with managers and direct reports. How many hours are you spending on these individual roles? Every single week. And then let's have an open, honest conversation. If you're spending way too much time in a specific area, are there things within there that you can drop down and delegate? Yeah, I'll be interested to see how that kind of grows and evolves over time.

Yeah. One of my thoughts around delegation has been around Parkinson's law. That work expands to fill the space that we give it. And when we delegate projects to people, we have to tell them how little time we want them to spend, not how much time we think it'll take, but how little time we want them to spend or how little money we want them to spend and then let them figure out how to do it within that bandwidth, within that kind of restraint. But yeah, delegation is an art, man.

It really is. And I'm coming from the place of, you know, being there. From the beginning I was just doing everything. And so I really had to teach and train myself. I don't have to do everything. It will still get done well. So like going through that own, like internal process of letting go of things that I do like, very much truly care about, it's important too.

Yeah, that's, that's a whole other area of growth. The ability to actually let go and let other people do it and free ourselves up. And one thing, it's kind of like the to do list needs to get done, but not by you.

Yes, I'm much better at that now. But I will say I definitely struggled with that initially, especially when like I was on the weeds in every product decision. I was designing things, I was talking to clients, every client conversation could turn into a product interview and discovery. And so those kind of things were very exciting because that was part of our success initially. Right. The feedback loop was so short. I was talking to people, we were getting things out there, I was getting feedback on it. And that's exactly what you need for an initial growth company. And so that's, that's part of what I'm doing right now is I'm not the problem solver anymore. But figuring out the systems to put in place so that feedback loop can stay short is really important.

90Io measures a few different personality profiles. Can you walk us through the different personality profiles you use, how you use them? And then I want to dig in around one that we use at the COO alliance called Colby.

Yeah, so we use both Colby and Type Coach even in the interviewing process. So when we're going through hiring and then we've also layered in print. I'm not sure we've done that organization wide, but through different quarterlies and things on our leadership team, we try and layer in new ones every once in a while. I would say, like you, we rely on probably Colby the most, I would say in terms of thinking about our working relationship with people and if they're going to be a right fit for the seat that we're bringing them into. So it's just a great context to frame conversation around and knowing, you know, I've got a client success operations person who is a high quick start. So knowing I probably need to coach him in terms of communication and bring people along whatever changes he's making because his natural inclination is going to be to just go.

Yeah, it's interesting. Most of ours. So your colby profile is 8643 and the very high first number means you're a high fact finder. So you like to start projects by asking lots of questions. What is your CEO Mark Abbott's Colby profile? Do you know what his is?

We're not too far off. He's actually also a high fact finder, which is a bit unique, I would say, for that particular role.

Well, I was curious, I was curious if he's more of like the engineering kind of type or does he approach business from that perspective more than a lot of entrepreneurs do?

He's a 7, 4, 6, 3, so he's just got a bit higher on that quick start side. But you know, we're not, we're not too far off. And that's the really good thing about working with him is he does want to like get in the weeds and actually know a lot. So he's not just going to like take things at face value. So I think that's been really helpful in terms of he's got a big vision and where we're heading but isn't going to shy away from getting into the details either.

Well, it's interesting as, as organizations scale, once you get past the entrepreneurial zone and you're into more of the mid sized company and you guys are starting to bump into that now. The skills of the CEO really do need to adapt. They can't be that high quick start and starting to, you know, you can't be a super high quick start and run 120 person company. It starts to fall AP and that's what happened to me at 1-800-you- got junk as the CEO. I was a very strange profile for a CEO. But it's because we were so entrepreneurial in this massive trajectory. But you know, Once we hit 3,000 employees system wide, I was banging my head all over the place. It was ugly.

Why can't we move faster on all of these things?

Yeah, it was, it was crazy. We had 330 cities and four countries and 13 operating PNLs. I was pulling my hair out. It's funny, they replaced me with the former president of Starbucks US and she came in and said what a cute little company. And I was like, gets so big in looking at the ability to say no to clients. I think there's an art there. And is it a not now or is it a hard no or is it a no? Because how do you say no when some of these requests are so niche that they don't serve the 80%?

I almost consider this one of my superpowers is giving people bad news. I used to say that was my job. Right. Because initially it's like you have so many bugs, people want things, you can't deliver them. And so it really is an art form. I would say it kind of falls into different categories depending on the request because sometimes things people are asking for, it's just physically not possible because you can't line up data from one day of the week and then make it show on a different day of the week. Like there's just like physical limitations that you have to describe to people. But I don't know, I, I really just approach it really from like a personal mindset of how would I want somebody to tell me this information too? It's one of those things where I think it varies person to person or request to request. But I, but having that kind of centralized mindset around, here's who we are having our snack really well built out and knowing like product wise where we're heading definitely makes things a lot easier in terms of when people come in with those requests.

So you said you were the first non tech person to kind of join the company and I'm sure there's. Now there's lots of you that are there that are non tech. But what was it that Mark saw in you that that allowed him to continue to put more responsibility on your shoulders and, and give you bigger parts of the organization to scale and to run?

I don't know, was it given to me or did I take it? I don't know because even like coming in. So initially I was client success in marketing and I saw the founders giving the developers direction and I was like well I'm just going to step in here and kind of be this middle person. So then I ended up in this product seat and so I feel like maybe it was a combination of both things with me feeling like I know how to fix this problem or set things up in a better way. And so I'm just going to jump in maybe sometimes without asking, maybe in general on, on the other side of the equation of like more responsibility being given to me. I'm a fairly level headed person. Resiliency is a big one to me. So having thick skin, making sure like I'm always coming to situations, I'm not getting hot headed. So I think that's like a big aspect for being able to work through a lot of that kind of like early turmoil and trouble where it's like it's, it's, it's not an easy road to get here and that, that's why when other people are like well I'm just gonna go build my own software and like do this myself. Like you should definitely try that. Good luck to you. You know you've had client, we've had clients that have told us that before. It's like I know you'll be back in six months, love to talk to you about it, I'll even give you some tips. But it's not gonna be something you can just go set up on your own.

Who do you compete with from the operating software point of view? Have you got competition out there that you're directly competing with and is it a competitive market or is it still a fairly early stage market?

Really early stage when we got started and I think companies are just starting to become more established within it. So we've got one other one that came up with us specific to the EOS market and they no longer are. Now we're the only licensed provider of EOS software. So I would still consider them as far as like in that business operating space. And then you mentioned align earlier they're pretty much like in that competing space as well. Just offering a business operating system. Everything else is a bit more adjacent to that okr software performance management like the 155 aspect, we've got aspects of that within 90 as well. So really we our system as whole business tools. So what does your whole business need in order to operate? And so we're trying to pull aspects of that performance management, project management, all those different things and have it combined into one tool.

But you're trying to stay squarely in the operations side of the business too. Right. Like you're not migrating into the tech side of operations or you're not marketing to marketing operations like you're staying in the ops.

Exactly. Yeah. And so I, as we continue to build tools, there's things that are complementary to our offering right now. Like wouldn't it be great if you could survey your employees and get an enps or ask them a question every Friday and see like how they're feeling or how they're doing within their roles. So things like that I would say still fit into that kind of operations mindset as opposed to. Yeah, getting too specific within us, within a niche.

There again, the company changing from the 25 employees to 120 employees. How has the leadership team changed? How has the leadership team had to evolve? And that's been pretty fast growth. Have there been any hiccups through that growth?

We started off with an interesting model of most people coming in fractional. So I was probably the one full time person on the leadership team maybe up until about two years ago and everybody else was coming in with their own layer of expertise but working maybe one, two days a week. So it let us hire really qualified people into those roles. Before we really needed somebody full time. And we're getting to the place now where we a thousand percent need everybody to be in full time capacity. So I would say that's probably been the biggest change, structure wise that we've gone through is just pulling everybody into really being full time within their seat to build out their department.

And have you had to hire some external hires to bring them into the organization? And what's that been like doing that when you bring in the senior external hires?

Yeah, we've hired everybody externally. I would say our interview process is really good mainly because we have such a firm ground on. Here's our vision and here's the type of people that we want to bring in. So really hitting home our core values. We know where we want to be in 10 years. So just all of those factors to make sure we're weeding out the wrong people. And then typically everybody goes through, you know, the 3, 4 interview process. Even when we were hiring our head of data, Mark did the interview and then just shared the zoom link out with all of us and was like, hey, here you go. What do you guys think? So I feel like that kind of like openness through the process has been really helpful as well.

Now when you bring in an external senior hire, like let's say it's a leadership team member and they're coming in over top of you know 70 other employees that are already there and have been there and working hard. Can you walk us through how you kind of socialize those hires internally before they start and what the onboarding process is like for those people?

And I would say our most recent one is probably on the marketing side. We had a new head of marketing start in January and so through that we really made sure that core members of the team were part of that hiring process as well. So they were in on the interviews. So I think that helped create the buy in internally because they also want to be mentored in a specific way. So we haven't had the situation where somebody's coming in over 70 people and they're not going to know majority of them. Like when our head of marketing came in, he could have an understanding of who each person on the team was and be able to like really work individually with them. So I think that's been a huge benefit is we're not bringing somebody in and then them having to convince, you know, tens and tens of people why they're the right fit. But there's that kind of like immediate trust and relationship that could start being formed.

Anything on international or global expansion or is most of your expansion in the US right now?

We're in 26 countries. We've always been a global company, which is really interesting. So we on the client success side especially, we have so many that works overnight shift as well from Germany. So we have 24, 7 support there. But employee wise, we're not expanding outside the US necessarily. We do have a couple people in different countries and that lends itself well to being able to support multiple languages and things like that. But globally we're not going after any specific markets. We're really trying to follow those coaches along the path that they're going. So if we have UK based coaches, like any way that we can go after and support them through training sessions they're running or conferences or anything like that, we want to be a part of that journey. Journey.

So when you're so kind of tightly tied and compatible with eos, how do you get coaches that are non EOS coaches to start to adopt? Is there a. Do they feel like there's a competition that they're having to deal with or do they feel like they're kind of joining the dark side?

You never really see the other side, I would say, at least from my perspective. So those people coming in shouldn't feel like they're competing in any way with any other specific coach. They have their own referral link in, the client actually gets a unique experience based on whatever the coach set up so the coach can come in. And if they're not using EOS as an example, they can create their own template. So every time their link is used, the client set up, everything's named the way they want, pages are configured the way they want. So it's a pretty unique experience, I would say, for those coaches that have very individualized operating systems set up.

Let's go Back to the 21, 22 year old Christine Watts. What advice would you give the younger you that you probably know to be true today, but you wish you'd know when you're just getting started Being more.

Bold I've always kind of been in these leadership positions maybe because people just see me as like having a cool head and being able to like speak reason into situations. So going back all the way through like sports growing up, I was always the captain and playing D1 in college, like same thing. And so through a lot of those situations I feel like I dealt with hard things but I didn't own it. And so I feel like now I'm doing a much better job of getting out of my head, dealing with the imposter syndrome and like being more bold in those situations.

Christine Watts, the head of Client Success for Naughty IO thank you so much for sharing with us on the Second in Command podcast.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Learning to say no and truly reframing no as an act of service. Right? If we think about raising kids, the most spoiled kids in the world are the ones that always get everything that they want. They never have to work for it. We know this to be true. Your team is exactly the same way. And so operators in my experience are incredibly service oriented people.