From 3 Employees to Global Ops: How This COO Scaled Smart & Fast | (Podcast 470)

One of our main job competencies at Environmental Incentives is meeting management. So we take it really seriously and even we definitely hold ourselves as the executive team, really accountable to that. But yeah, I think the other thing that maybe seems obvious is, but for the executive team is being really, really open and honest and both, you know, comfortable giving, but also receiving feedback. So crucial in us being able to work together and truly be effective.

Our guest today is Andrew Alexandrovich, the CEO of Environmental Incentives, a mission driven organization that has grown from 40 employees to over 135 employees under his leadership. With a background in environmental management and a sharp focus on strategic operations, and Andrew has helped secure over $400 million in funding while transforming core systems across HR, Finance and Enterprise technology. In this episode specifically today, we dive into the realities of leading growth through change. Andrew shares how he's helped transition teams from in person to remote to kind of a hybrid while keeping company culture alive. The role of annual retreats and keeping engagement happening with team while running a remote company. And he keeps the executive team aligned through every phase of expansion. He also offers thoughtful insights on team restructuring and change management, both during the highs and the inevitable lows of scaling a company. So if you are navigating growth or thinking about how to evolve your leadership team and company culture, this conversation is definitely for you. All right, here we go. We are here with Andrew Alexandrovich. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Of course. I am really excited about this episode. Andrew is currently working with Environmental Incentives. So why don't you just give us a little bit of a background on yourself and the company that you're with.

Sure. So I started working with environmental incentives about 15 years ago. When I started company was very much in startup mode. I was one of three employees, I think at the time, plus the two founding partners. And we've kind of just grown over the past 15 years. And through the company's growth, I've grown through different operational roles and most recently becoming the COO of environmental incentives in 2020. And at that point we were really looking ahead to scaling up to be a mid sized company working throughout the US and overseas. And my role was to build up our systems to get us ready for that growth.

Amazing. Okay, and what led you? So 15 years ago you were one of the kind of founding team members. What led you to joining?

So I started actually outside after my undergrad, so my background's in environmental studies and I found Environmental Incentives shortly after I graduated. Started, you know, in a entry level Role and kind of went from there. And as I grew through the years, I, like I said earlier, did all, you know, kind of played all the internal functions and building up the internal infrastructure of the company until about 2015. I decided to pursue my master's and at that point I, I decided to do the Duke Environmental Leadership Program and Master's Environmental Management, which is a professional program, working full time doing grad school kind of on the side. And did that because I wanted to kind of get the exposure to the more exposure to the technical work that the company was doing so I could kind of have that well rounded leadership skill set of understanding the work and then also how to function and run the business.

So you were doing that in combination at the same time?

Yeah, so I, it was a full, it was a remote kind of hybrid program. So I remained working full time at Environmental Incentives and you know, still, you know, managing a lot of the internal operations, but then also doing a grad program kind of nights and weekends sort of thing for a couple years.

Okay, sweet. I would love to hear how you feel that contributed or benefited your role and we'll circle back to that in a second. But could you tell us a little bit first? What, what does Environmental Incentives do as a company?

So we're essentially a management consulting firm that works with different organizations that want to design environmental programs. So our company started, we're started in actually South Lake Tahoe, California with the program to help some of the agencies there to achieve water quality goals for Lake Tahoe. So essentially our role was to understand what the goal that they are going for and then help the agencies develop a program to track and monitor and report progress for that environmental program. So since then we've kind of built through working, applying similar concepts with state agencies, local and municipalities, and even with some non nonprofits and foundations. And then our biggest client being usaid. So kind of applying similar concepts of working at the intersection of environment and international development.

Okay, awesome. Yeah. So I imagine that the operational piece of this company, there's probably some really important things that get to be measured and managed properly.

Yeah, yeah. And we're, you know, from the operations standpoint, you know, we're a service based company, so we are consultants. So you know, a lot of, part of the big part of my role was developing systems and you know, part of my leadership style was, you know, really developing systems that work for the users to be able to go and deliver our work. So you know, that was a lot of the, a lot of the challenge. And then you Know, within the federal contracting space and just some having lots of different donors from federal government to state governments to private NGOs and, and foundations, just you know, a lot of complex compliance requirements that don't always lend to efficiency. And so you know, finding that balance of having that people centered, like user focused while maintaining the compliance side was always a fun challenge.

Yeah, I mean, let's talk about that. The compliance piece with the people. Tell me like what were some of the challenges with team and then also doing that that you encountered?

Well, so we are. One of the great things about environmental incentives, it's a very focus on the person like rich culture of learning, adaptability and continual improvement. So you know, one, one of the things that we really focused on a lot with my team and as we were building the internal systems and the infrastructure is change management practices. So really like understanding, you know, there's of course there's compliance requirements that we have to make sure we're following and then there's the delivering the work that we are hired to do. And so you know what that means when you're rolling out a new system or process, whether it's related to just operations or HR or finance or whatever it is, program management, really just engaging the users and the vision and the definition and drafting that system or policy or process and then going through beta test and refinement period with the users. So that when we end with the final product, it's not a product that's kind of been developed by the operations team and then put out there and we find, you know, 10 different snags along the way and we're not able to deliver the work on time or efficiently. But instead it's, you know, it's something that's been sort of co created and people understand it by the time it's rolled out because they've been engaged and they're more bought in and you know, able to use it efficiently and still deliver their work on time and you know, within the regulations, whatever it is that relates to that process.

Sounds like there's a lot of different pieces to kind of navigate from a leadership standpoint, but then also strategically. I'm curious for you, in being at this company for 15 years and it sounds like you've gone through a few different transitions or key roles. What, what are the reasons why you were chosen to be the COO recently?

Well, I think the reason that I was chosen is I had kind of like grown with the company through multiple stages of growth. So you know, I became the COO in 2020. And I think at that point we were about 40 employees and, and to our peak, which was about 135 employees. And so at that point when we were 40 employees, we were really like, we were looking ahead to being a mid sized business still, like had a lot of foundational systems, but they were really set up to be a small business. But I had, you know, grown with the company at that point. I guess this was eight or nine years into my time there. Um, and so I really understood all the interconnections of how our different systems work from like program delivery to HR and the finance and the operations systems that, you know, help us deliver that work. Um, I just had a really deep understanding of that and, and also the company culture and the regulations because I had spent even that time up until that point getting the company's infrastructure set up to be that scale of a business and be compliant and efficient and all that. So cool.

I think that anyone who's listening, we have people who are already COOs and then we have people who listen who are, you know, that's kind of their trajectory of where they're wanting to go. And I think it's so important where even if your role says that this is only what you're focusing on and asking leadership and seeing if there's anything else that you can take on or can you understand other parts of the company so that you can have that, like you said, super well rounded kind of knowledge of what's happening. And then when you step into a role like you have, I'm sure it was probably way less of a transition than maybe the title says. What was that? Stepping into the actual title did a lot shift for you or was it kind of just a title? Like what were some of those things that were different if there was.

Yeah, well, I mean before I got the title was officially named coo, I was effectively running the internal functions of the business. I think the difference was two kind of two main things. The quality that we were doing it, you know, like I said, one was, one was built for a small business, the other, you know, was a mid sized business operating globally. Multiple, you know, director kind of VP level positions with teams underneath them. So multiple verticals throughout the company. So the quality needed to be, you know, much more instead of small business, you know, scaled for that size, like best in class kind of like industry standard systems and processes. So just quality and the approach and kind of maintaining the culture was, was one difference as I stepped into that role and then, you know, kind of like I just said, but the magnitude. So since we had more managers, more program managers, more program directors, more clients, just needing that, you know, quality to kind of of match that magnitude and to be able to do it at scale.

Right? Yes. Two questions from that. You said maintaining the culture, making that transition. What, how, how did you manage the culture when you guys were making that shift? And so many things sounds like it was changing. Were there any specific meetings or processes? What did that look like?

Yeah, well, we've always been a very people focused organization. And so, you know, I think some of the things to maintain culture. One of one thing I didn't mention too is, you know, as I became coo was right as Covid started too. So we were going from. Not only were we going from like, you know, all the changes that everybody was experiencing like on site to a fully remote company, we're now operating as a hybrid company. We were looking at this kind of doubling in size at that point. So what we did to maintain the culture is just, you know, different engagement techniques. Annual culture survey where we were polling staff around the time of our annual planning cycle to see what was working, what we could improve on, from everything from, you know, compensation to our systems to equipment and our softwares we're using. So doing that kind of annual pulse check with the company and building that into our annual planning cycle every year was one way that we maintained culture. Another was just we had a. We have a great team of staff that are really good at doing fun events for the company. We have annual retreats that you know, always has some kind of team building. Then we, we've been really good about having kind of like internal team building, encouraging things. Like we have something called the Sunshine Fund that just, you know, it makes it easy for staff to send a little gift, like flowers to a team member to recognize good work. So just kind of like little things like that, that especially being kind of a dispersed team going to remote were really important to help us stay connected and maintain that kind of small business, like really mission driven feel, but at a larger scale.

Nice. On the annual retreats, how, how many of those have you guys done so far?

Oh, we've done them every year since the company's beginning. They've looked different in times like in past years. There's been times that they've always been everybody together in one location. To having fully remote during some of the, the COVID years to kind of more recently, it's been like every few years doing everybody together. I think the last one we did was 22 or 3. 20, 20, 23. Where everybody was together. But then, you know, in most recently, for example was kind of a hybrid arrangement. Like where the concentration of staff. Yeah. That were together, we're together, but then some remote participants. But every year we all, we do them every year.

Awesome. Yeah. I feel like now that things are so remote, there is such an important difference when you actually get in person. Something. You know, one of the companies that I was with when we started doing the retreats, one, we were shocked at how expensive they were. I mean comparatively. Right. But also like we were shocked at just the, to get a nice venue to feed everyone well and have them have a good experience. And then also the activities. It was quite a substantial amount. And so then we were like, okay, how actually valuable is this and are we getting a return on this? What's the difference? And for us we found that it was absolutely a non negotiable and needed to happen. And so for you, I'm curious, what were some of the positive effects of doing those? And then is there anything that someone should think about if someone's on the edge of if they should roll that out for their company or not? Maybe is there anything that is like a decision matrix that you would have them go through?

Yeah, well, one thing I'll say as well is we encouraged for our remote staff. Kind of like the main expectation as we got back to hybrid was we're a hybrid company. So you know, if you don't live in the, in an area where one of our main offices is located, then you're a remote employee and we have a different pay scale for remote employees and then that you report into the office approximately once a quarter one of the headquartered offices or one of the main offices where your team is located. So kind of, I guess I just say that as a side note that that was a really important thing for that in person connection. But to your original question, you know, I think just for us, the non negotiable is, you know, we're, we're a service based company and that means working together across teams to come up with solutions and collaborate to deliver something excellent that no one of us can deliver on our own. So the non negotiable was just that we was the kind of foundational belief that we do that better when we are, you know, have a strong connection to one another and can collaborate with one another. So again, while it wasn't every day, even for the hybrid employees, we're in two days a week, it wasn't every day that we're doing that, but some regular amount of time to work together, build connection, understand the full person that you're working with and just kind of have that team morale to sprint when we need to sprint and solve hard problems together. Was, was the real driver?

Awesome. Cool. And kind of bridging off of that. I'm sure when you get together, there's this momentum and there's the energy and then you go back and it's like, okay, cool, now we're back into work and strategic thinking for you in the role of coo, managing the excitement and the culture of people and kind of being in the day to day of that, how did you or how do you manage both that piece and the long term strategic thinking? Because that's kind of the unique position of a CEO often is you're in the weeds, but then you're also working with the CEO or the other visionaries in the company and thinking, where are we going? Is there any sort of structure that you found that's been supportive for you in that?

Yeah, I think on the team side, just having a really connected and solid executive team that works well together has been crucial. And our, our CEO has been great at helping us come together as a group and kind of build out our long term arc. So we do two things. We do a five year strategy. So it's kind of like let's look at the long term arc on a five year scale and then do the annual strategy where we're really coming together every year and saying like, what are we doing this year? And kind of it's not like we're looking at the five year strategy at all to set our annual strategies, but it is like a compass that we're looking at. You know, we're in year three, how are we doing towards our five year strategy? So it helps, it's a helpful compass. But then really using that strategy framework to then get down into the details of day to day work. Because then, you know, as a coo, I'll take, you know, I'll kind of understand where, you know, our executive team and the annual strategy is, thinking big picture and then build an annual strategy around that. And then I'm using that to work with our program teams and the ops teams and all our internal teams to really guide our quarterly and monthly goals and make sure we're tracking towards progress. And that does give me the kind of long term vision and the day to day kind of managing workflow, program project management needs or day to day.

What I heard in that, it Sounds like you've got this bigger term, bigger long term vision picture of what we want the company to look like and then you're honing back into, okay, actually what can we do this year, this quarter, today to get closer to that. Has there been any, any moments in time in the company looked at that five year vision and was thinking, man, is this actually what we want? And you guys, do you revisit that and change it or do you really stick with moving through the challenges to make that happen? Has there been any if likes like that?

Definitely. I mean we have, we're, as a company, we're really kind of like learning, focused and adaptively managed. So we're always looking for like, you know, is this still right and are we on track and do we need to make any pivots? Kind of surprisingly like our five year strategies, they're very high level, kind of like, you know, what kind of impact we want to be making or what does our client base look like, what's our, you know, revenue and staff count look like? So we've actually done like we, the last five year strategy. It was amazing. We were like, you know, it didn't look like we were going to hit all the targets we wanted to hit. And then just a bunch of stuff happened. Like we got some new contracts, we got traction in different areas of work and we kind of made it happen in the last like years four and five. And I kind of see a similar trajectory right now. So. But you know, the pivots kind of are happening at that annual scale. So that's the nice thing about this framework is. And then, you know, the annual planning, even the pivots are happening at the quarterly scale. So. So yeah, we're always looking to adaptively manage it and change course and that aren't super wedded to that if the context changes.

Yeah. One of the key things that you mentioned that stands out to me is also just how maybe you didn't think some of those things would happen, but then certain things start coming in. Have you read Cameron's book Vivid Vision?

I did a while ago when I first started the COO alliance. Yeah.

Okay, awesome. Yeah, so I actually, I, we were kind of just talking a little bit before the episode, but I'm working with Jen Hoodie who is partnered with Cameron on some Vivid vision stuff. So I work with her company and I was watching some of these testimony testimonial videos of people who got their vivid visions done, which are on a three year timeframe. But one of the women she Was saying like, man, it was like the last six months of my three year chapter and there was all these things that hadn't happened yet. But then in just the first final kind of quarter of that, all these things started to happen. And she's like, when I look back on my vivid vision, all of these things have come true. And there's now like studies that are coming out of seeing pictures and reading things every day of how much it actually trains your brain to be in alignment with the energy and the actions and bringing those types of opportunities to you. So even if there's things that shift or change, having some sort of, you know, because I think that's where people get stuck is they're like, well, I don't know what it's going to be and what if I write it and then it needs to change? I don't know. Like we're needing absolute certainty. But at the end of the day, things are going to shift and evolve. But if you at least have some sort of an idea of where you're going, you can kind of steer the airplane with some sort of coordinance and at least get, you know, what's the quote? Shoot for the moon and land amongst the stars.

Yeah, I think, yeah, I loved that part of Vivid Vision book and I, I think, yeah, you're exactly right. Just having that compass to kind of guide you. Even if the specific strategies or the timing or, you know, the bumps, the highs and lows along the way are different, um, it's so helpful just to have that, that vision ahead of you.

Yeah. Speaking of lows, are you open to sharing with us what has been maybe one or two lows or challenges in the world that you've been in?

Well, was it, I think it was about the beginning of 2024, just the way our funding works, we kind of get these, these large contracts, but they, but then the client buys into them. So we'll get a ceiling, you know, a $90 million ceiling over five years. But then different offices within our, our client's agency buys in up to that amount. So we, we were looking, you know, we have several of these types of contracts and we're looking ahead of kind of like making staffing and resource decisions around those with assumptions of a certain amount of buy in. Coming into our contracts, we kind of were getting towards the, you know, through our quarterly forecasting and coming up to our annual cycle, just realizing that we weren't getting the buy in as quickly and it was just taking our clients longer to, it was taking longer for our content in that, that traction with our clients. So so we had like a bridge that we were coming up on of, you know, we have all these great staff. We do think the funding's gonna come through, but, you know, it might be three months later, it might be six months later. So what do we do? So, you know, we what we did is we kind of, you know, managed that transition to have like a staff bridging initiative where we just, you know, we're really transparent. Like part of our culture is open and honest. So we're really transparent with our staff and, you know, said this is the challenge ahead. And we really looked at kind of like key contributors and where people's skills were most aligned to the work that is already secured and we expect to come through and essentially had to make some staff retention but also staff reduction decisions within that.