How Great COOs Build Trust and Scale Without Chaos | (Podcast 516)

Communication was big, but SOP creation was also bigger. One thing I also realized, a lot of these specific employees were irreplaceable. I don't like that. I learned that the hard way because the first company that really helped me build my skill sets, when I left the company, there was a half a million dollars in refund requests. And it hit, it really hit. Because I'm like, all right, I never want to be me in another company. So whenever I see employees that are exceeding expectation, I love that I'm going to support them, but I also want to learn what they're doing and I want to replicate their cut. My name is Imad Jabara. I have trained the biggest sales teams on the planet, taking companies from seven to eight figures through client retention. I've worked with people like Tony Robbins, Grant Cardone, Alex Rosi. I've helped build out their infrastructure, systems and overall package. And you're going to have a great time listening because I'm going to give it, I'm going to give you guys so much actual, tangible, step by step details that you can implement your company that will take it to the next level within the next 60 to 90 days.

This is absolutely an episode you're going to want to share, have your team listen to, and you can also watch and listen to all of our podcasts. We'll see you on the inside. All right, I'm excited for this one. We've got an in person podcast interview happening in Austin, Texas. I'm here with Ahmad Jumara, who is the COO for L2, Infinite Insurance and the past COO for Wojo Media. Is that right?

Yes, it is.

It was Wojo. Ahmad and I just met last week and I was really impressed with him and his skill, skill sets. We had dinner together with a group of COOs here in Austin, so I thought we'd be able to do an in person podcast before I jet off again. So, Ahmad, welcome to the Second Command podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here and I'm just excited to see what's next.

Yeah, looking forward to this. So why don't you start off by talking a little bit about Wojo. What was Wojo Media? What was the growth curve like as your coo? And then we'll get into some of the details there.

So one of the big things for Vojo Media that I was brought in for was actually initially client retention. Uh, the company was incredible at making money, but not the best at keeping the clients. Uh, so they basically brought Me, I think at the time when I came in, their client retention was about 20%. So the train was, like, insane. Uh, I came in and within, like, the first six months, we took it from 20% to 80%, which then tripled their revenue, basically, kind of like overnight, but not really. Um, and one of the big things that I saw in the company was there's a lack of structure. And what's crazy is you would think a lot of companies that are doing millions of dollars would have structure. They'd be, like, absolutely crushing it and organized. It's never. It's never the case. And you're just blown away. You're like, I like, how is this even possible? So going in there, kind of seeing everything for what it was, and then kind of like organizing. It's kind of like when you're a CEO, it's like a puzzle. You know, you see one piece, you see another piece, you just put them all together. Then finally, once you put all the pieces together, you start seeing the engine work the way it's supposed to work. And I think that was kind of like the pivotal wall for me to like, really kind of go in there and shift everything.

What were some of the early pieces then? So you saw some pieces that weren't working. I think there's also that. The return on time and return on effort. Right. As you said, there's all these different pieces you could be working on. How did you decide which were the critical few pieces to focus on versus the important many?

So the first thing I did was we. When I first came in, it was a founder, which is Wojo, and then there was a CEO, there was a client success director, and then everybody else. It didn't work out because now when problems were happening, nobody would communicate, especially based on different departments. So if you're running a marketing agency, it's broken down to different components. You have ads, you have graphics, you have copyright, you have all these different parts of this company. And it's like, there's a problem. Copywriting. How would the COO or the director know? Because it was just. They were all just part of one single pod. And you basically hope that the person that's running that pod is going to take all that information and give it to the client Success director. So the first thing we did when I first came in, I took the different positions, the different departments, the copywriting department, the graphics department, the media buying department. And we found the individuals that had the most talent, but also the ones that were kind of being a leader without the Title. We made the managers.

Okay.

We bought them all. We made them all different managers. And then we had one 15 minute call every single day. We needed it because we needed to kind of catch problems as soon as they happened. That one 15 minute huddle basically got everybody in sync. Everybody had two minutes to talk about what's good, what's not good, what needs to be fixed for the week. And based on that, just collaboration, everything kind of became more structured and more organized, so we started rebuilding that culture. After we started doing that, I went and also then fired, like, the major weeds in the game. And what I also don't think is people don't realize how one bad egg can ruin the whole entire company. We had four. Everybody that just complained. Every time you told them to do something, they would always just give you some sort of rebuttal. But, but, but. And I'm like, please put a little. God. I'm just. I'm. I'm being nice. I'm helping you. Just help me help you. Right? But it's like, you get that enough, and you're like, all right, I'm done with this. I'm like, we're not gonna move anywhere. And then these people would then influence other people to follow in their footsteps. I just didn't want to deal with it.

I want to ask you about getting rid of some of those bottom performers. I also want to ask you first, though, about the daily huddles that you did. That was just the managers that were doing the daily Huddle. Correct. What time of day did you hold the daily huddle? What was the actual agenda or format for the daily huddle? And were there ever periods where you kind of thought about canceling it, but kept pushing and kept doing it?

Yeah. So the first two months, we had to do it every single day. And the reason for that is because there were so many problems that were happening that we had to basically fix everything that was already, like, in shambles. Basically, the agenda for it was we would get in and every single person would have two minutes. And the biggest thing they were focused on are, what are the problems that we're facing today? What happened yesterday? That was a major issue. What can we do today to make it better? And then what was the goal for the week? I like focusing on weak goals because everybody looks at the big picture goals. We can have them. But those are more for quarterly meetings. If we were doing quarterly meetings, then we'll focus on the bigger picture. But for now, let's focus on the present end. All right. There's problems that are going to come up in the. In the future. Let's wait, let's breathe, let's focus on the problems we have right now. Let's deal with them. And I look at it as like, let's brick by brick.

So it sounds like communication between departments was a big thing that you worked on, and then you elevated some people into these manager roles. I've always believed that a leader's core job is to grow people. What were you having to work with some of those managers on in terms of growing their skill sets or growing their confidence outside of communication between departments, what else did you work with growing them on?

Well, communication was big, but SOP creation was also big. One thing I also realized a lot of these specific employees were irreplaceable. I don't like that. I learned that the hard way because the. The first company that really helped me build my skill sets, when I left the company, there was a half a million dollars in refund requests. And it hit. It really hit because I'm like, all right, I never want to be me in another company. So whenever I see employees that are exceeding expectation, I love that I'm going to support them, but I also want to learn what they're doing, and I want to replicate that. Okay, the first thing was we took every single one of the managers and we got them to create their own SOPs for the basically daily task, the monthly task, everything they were looking for, the whole entire processes, we got that set up. And then I told them to build out processes for their whole entire system. And I had a bunch of templates that I'm like, hey, just take this, edit it, put whatever you need to do in it to simplify the process. Because I believe in making it easier for everybody else. I'm not going to have you create something that you don't know how to create. So I've already have everything set up so I can just delegate it to you. They came, they basically put the roles of the people that were working for them. They, the description, the daily tasks, the key KPIs. And if they didn't have decent KPIs, we had them rebuild the KPIs. And the biggest thing was really focusing on getting them to have their confidence. A lot of people don't have their confidence. And everybody thinks being a leader is easy. Everybody looks sexy from the ground up. Oh, my God, I can't wait to go and manage people. But there's a difference between being a manager and being a leader. A manager tells People what to do. A leader creates individuals that can think for themselves and they can actually move the company forward without them. So that was kind of my intention. I'm like, how can I make you guys think differently? So whenever they're comfortable with a problem, if they didn't give me a solution, I just like the message.

I like it.

And then they would just think of like, why aren't you responding? I'd like that message, too. I'm like, you already know. I already told you. I'm not going to repeat myself. You give me a problem, you give me three solutions, and then you tell me which problem, which solution you like the most, and then you go implement.

It, and then we'll see, you know.

Where we from there.

Good for you. Okay, so you're starting to elevate them as leaders. You're making them do their own thinking a little bit. I love the whole elegant kind of creating the SOPs for each of the roles and each of the roles below them. When you're creating the SOPs, was there a system that you were using? Was it just Google Docs and Google Sheets? Were you pushing stuff into things like, you know, trainual, process, street? What were you doing for creating the SOPs? And then how did you make sure people used the SOPs when they were created, or was it just there in case you had to actually replace them later?

Well, the SOPs basically gave people, like, the. The framework. So the reality is, if they weren't hitting KPIs, they're not following the SOPs. And that's kind of how I took it. I'm like, whenever they have a problem, I'd be like, well, the problem's already in sop. You're basically telling me that you're not looking at the sop, because that question is literally on page three. And that was kind of how call people kind of out in a very loving way. But also it was like redefining the values and being like, what are the values we stand for? So if we say we're going to do something, we're actually going to do it. And I would focus really on seeing how these leaders were going to show up for themselves. And if they weren't going to go through the documents, I'd be like, all right, cool. If this is not the standard that you're now setting for everybody under you, do you really belong in leadership? It's kind of like, hey, I'm not going to reprimand you. But also, you are expected to show up like this. And I'M worried that now.

How many employees were at Wojo?

60.

Okay, so you had about 60 employees, but you said you identified four that were kind of those cultural cancers. The bad eggs that you had to remove. How did you go about removing them? And then I've often wondered and believe that almost 90% of the time, when you remove those people, you don't even need to add a new person to replace them. They're not doing much anyway, other than causing problems. They're not getting a lot of productivity. Often the team can just pick up. What was your experience there?

This was a very big learning lesson. I think when I first stepped into these kind of roles, even before the company. Before that, the hardest part was transitioning into the company and getting the respect. It was like, there's always, you're either too aggressive or you're too kind. And I learned my lesson with this one. I came in and I was kind of tired of the shit, and I was aggressive, and it bit me in the ass. Because the culture then shifted. Great. Because now we were defined as standard. But. But it kind of took a little bit longer for me to build everybody up. Because if you come in there and people are listening and they're just constantly. It's like a laissez faire attitude. And I don't like band companies. I'm like, you guys, I want top G. I want A players. If you guys are BRC players, I don't want you. So then everybody got nervous, like, oh, we went from being lazy and not doing anything to. To now actually having to work, which is, oh, what a shocker.

You're at the job.

You shouldn't be working. So when I went in there, I kind of called everybody out and I, like, just fired them. But what happened is not everybody was afraid because they felt expendable.

Right.

Which kind of goes back to what we were talking about at dinner, where it's just like, the one thing I learned the hard way. And being a COO is the most important currency in a company is safety and security. If your employees feel safe and secure, they'll give you the loyalty.

It's RAS Low's hierarchy of needs. Safety and security are at the bottom layer, or right after, I guess, the base of needs being met. Safety and security are second.

So that was really big for them. And I realized now every decision I make is based on how are these people going to feel safe in this moment and in doing feeling feeling safe, they're going to not make me feel safe.

So you came into the company. How many employees were there when you came in?

16. We got rid of like, more than four, actually like about like four to eight. Yep. And just fired all of them the first three weeks.

But you feel you did it too soon then. Scared people.

It's the way I came in.

Yeah.

I came in aggressive. I was. They didn't see my heart.

How old were you at the time?

30.

30. So there's some. I think what you've got now is some wisdom that is matching your leadership skills. Right. And the confidence that you had. Now you have some wisdom there that you need time to actually build that wisdom muscle a hundred percent. I think you've now seen that. So if you were going into a new company, you just joined L2, you're coming in there as the COO and a smaller company now, kind of a different industry or same industry, but coming out a different way. What's your approach been now, going in there as the coo, and what advice would you give leaders going into a new company as a COO for the first time?

Well, starting, I think frame is the most important thing. People don't need to really like you. They need to respect you. And I think after they respect you, then you can really start developing that, hey, listen, I'm here for you and I'm here to support you. But at the end of the day, there is this. The bigger picture is, what's the mission? What's the vision? How are we going to get there together? How can it be symbiotic where it's like, I value you, you value me, we give each other value in the. And also the biggest thing is really focusing on the systems and structures. There was one piece of advice that I got that I'll never forget, and it shifted my, like, my whole perspective on just business and delegation. I was working with closers, which is where I messed up. And I remember at the time, I skyrocketed in the ranks, became the top coach to a point where then I was building out their backend for their B2C. We took it from like 0 to 1.4 million in like three months. I remember I was feeling like I was amazing. Like, yeah, look at me. Look how big my. You know what I mean? Like, look, I'm great. And I went to one of my mentors at the time in the company and I asked her, I was like, hey, like, tell me I'm great. I just did something that you guys didn't think was possible. And I was still my arrogant. Like, I wanted to prove Myself. And she was like, all right, so hypothetically speaking, you get hit by a bus tomorrow, what happens to the department? Yeah, well, it blows up and goes downhill. And she's like, and you're proud of that? Like, excuse me. She was like, you just built a liability and you're bragging about building liability. Wow. Stop me. I felt that in the heart.

I was that leadership or gaslighting, I.

Don'T know what it was, but it was. It was a lot of.

But it works.

It did because it showed me something where I was still the bottleneck. I was the one that did all that stuff. And it was all around me because of my own ego. I wanted people to look at me like, I'm doing all this, but the reality is it wasn't team. And then I hated her for a couple of months and then I came back and was, no, she was right.

So if you were leaving someone today that came in with that kind of bravado and wanted all that praise and you wanted them to make sure that they put systems in place to cover themselves, how would you give that feedback or that advice or that direction without necessarily potentially hurting the confidence? You know, could. Do you think you do both now?

Yes. Before, no. I think before I would have reacted.

The same, exact same way.

But I think now it comes down to. I always try to find there's always three types of truth. The spoken truth, the unspoken truth, and the unknown truth. And it's like a lot of managers will focus on the spoken and unspoken. The real value comes from the unknown, which is you want to make a lot of money. You want to make a lot of shift. Why? Well, I want to buy all the fancy cars.

Cool.

But why? What are you trying to impress? I'm trying to impress people because I didn't get love when I was in high school. Oh, so there's a deep rooted cause pain right there and then for me, it's like I understand the true buying motivators. And I think through that, then associate it with the values and it comes back to your company mission. So say then when I talk to you, I don't talk to you as the employee that's trying to make more money. I'm trying to talk to you as the employee that wants to retire their family. So the way you're acting right now is never going to retire your family.

I think an approach too, of just saying to the person, or if I just said to you, that's amazing, like, you've totally crushed it. We are ridiculously proud of you like this is stuff to celebrate in the company. Let's actually look at this from a different growth perspective as well. So what else do you think we could do now to make sure that if you got hit by a truck tomorrow that you haven't just left them with a liability? Right. So it's kind of like praise and versus just cut you out from the legs and expect that you rebuild. Do you think that would have worked?

That's a really good frame. I would love to kind of hear your perspective on this. I always get kind of mixed feedback sometimes about that. And from your experience, I mean, build amazing companies. Does the positive like, you know, the positive sandwich, does that always work or is there like a. Like a. What do you.

What do you. Yeah, so the idea around the shit's the shit sandwich. The positive sandwich that it comes out in the book the one minute manager, huge core around the grounding around situational leadership, which is one of the modules in the invest in your leaders training. Yes, it absolutely works. You have to praise people twice as often as you actually give them criticism. It doesn't have to happen in the same sentence. It doesn't have to happen in the same day. But our role as a leader is to grow people's skills and confidence. Almost like they're walking up two ladders with their left hand and left foot climbing up the skills ladder and then right behind it, their right hand and right foot are climbing up the confidence ladder. If at any point we knock down their confidence, it's hard for them to get their skills. Our job is to grow their confidence. Their skills, their confidence, their skills. So I think your leader, she had an opportunity to go, that's amazing. Well done. Fucking a bubble. Oo, this is fantastic. Keep your, your confidence high and let's actually feed off of that and see if we can work on the skills of not leaving a liability or a detriment there. What she did was knocked you down a couple of rungs and expected you to somehow climb back up to where she was right at, wanting to give you more skills. But I don't think she needed to destroy your confidence to get you there.

You know, someone. I have never looked at it from that perspective. I just looked at it as like, who said needed now? How do I delegate myself?

Bad roles.

That's my. That was.

Well, it's kind of like, you know, I got spanked back in the 1970s, but. But my dad could have probably raised us in a different way. I mean, it worked and, and I grew, but we don't do it that way today. Right. I think it's the same way with the leader. She probably didn't have it modeled to her before, but I think that's something that, you know, everyone who's managing people. I'd love to know what your thoughts are in the comments, but I think that's just a better way to do it, is a great job. And versus fuck you.

Yeah.

You still have better to do. Right. So your approach as a leader now in leading and growing people, how do you show up every day with them? What do you focus with them on? For me, is it still things like SOPs and SOPs in the beginning, but.

Usually I've realized that I usually delegate that very, very quickly. I really focus on integrity with them. And I always say the intention is all it knows. All right. I want you to make your own mistakes. I look at it as like, if you're making new mistakes every day, I'm happy. If you're making the same mistakes every day, you're not growing. And that's kind of the main focus where I'm just watching on how they interact with their team. I'm watching how they show up for themselves and I'm watching exactly. The skills are developing day by day. It becomes more of like, kind of like management of expectations. And that's kind of like, been my main role, especially right now with the new company. The first three months is all micromanaging. You're gonna have to micro the first 90 days, just until you can build the trust. Because I don't. I see a lot of CEO, CEOs and just people in general just come in and they give like. They don't train their COs, they don't train their teams. They just be like, oh, hey, do this.

Here's more. Yeah.

And you were just saying. I'm like, well, you didn't teach me. So it's like, if you didn't teach me, how can I grow? I see this in sale managers all the time, where a COO will come in, they're afraid of sales, so they'll bring a sales guy, they'll have him do all the sales. They don't know anything about the process. God forbid that person leaves, then they're stuck back at square one. So I'm like, you do it first for three months. You get the recordings, you get the breakdown systems, you do everything and then you bring somebody else and you have them copy what you're doing. Now if God forbid, they leave, you still have something that you can present to the team. And you're also not screwed because you also understand. So you can train them if they're the one training themselves, building everything themselves and they don't know what it is. You can't get mad at them for not having success that you haven't clearly defined as a leader. But again, all this stuff sounds sexy, but you have to experience it. Like all these are problems that I.

Let's talk, I want to talk about that onboarding. So I've always believed that companies, if you take two months to recruit and hire somebody, you should take two months to onboard them as well, right? Two months to integrate them into your company, your core values. If you're bringing a new manager into the company and they're coming in for, you know, they're going to be leading people coming in at like a mid to a senior level role. What's the onboarding process? You would typically put people through?

90 days. I usually have a SOP every week one and I have a checklist every day, day one. So Monday would be like, get on this meeting, get this done, go through this video, go through his document. Shadow Day 2, Shadow this person, do this, this meet with every single person that you meet with in the company just to kind of get to know each other, to build that kind of like integrity within the company and just step by step. For the first three months, I'm very micromanaging and I tell them, right everyone, like, hey, I'm going to micromanage you. I'm going to be on your ass. And it's not because I don't trust you. I am doing this so I can build the trust to help you be by yourself so I don't have to touch you later on the past. They're usually very receptive as long as you're very open with it. And I'm like, I don't want you to be frustrated. I just want to be open about this communication. And usually, like I said, the first month is just getting integrated in the company. Second month is really kind of focusing on systems and then third month is really about maintaining the skill and seeing can you do it without me?

All right, so go ahead. You're. No, no, no. So. So you're growing people, you're integrating people, you're bringing them into the organization and then you yourself as the leader every day, it's kind of the biggest thing you've ever grown, right? The company keeps getting bigger. It's like pushing a snowball up a mountain. It keeps getting bigger and you're kind of clawing your way up with one hand and pushing the snowball up with the other. What skills do you work on as a leader? What skills are you trying to get better at yourself?

Well, for me, I'm always, I've realized one of the big things, especially at this level, delegation is so, so powerful. But also training people has been the most valuable skill I've had to learn. So constantly learning about leadership books, constantly learning about communication books, also constantly learning about what's the new things that are developing, like AI. How can I integrate into AI? How can I one make my life easier, but then everybody else's life easier, I think. And you understand this more than anybody when you're at that position. A lot of decisions you have, you make can destroy a company. And it's kind of terrifying. You know, it's like there's a lot of pressure a lot of people don't see. And it's like you have to sit there and just be confident, yeah, this is going to work. And you're like, for three weeks, you can't sleep, you're shitting bricks, you're like, I, yeah, you really hope it works. But it's like, but it's kind of one of those things where if you're a commander in war, you can't be the, your legs can't be shaken. They are. Everybody else behind you, they can see.

Right there with you. Yeah. So I've noticed this as well. Two things. One is when, when leaders point their finger at somebody and blame somebody else. Just three fingers pointing back at you. But the second part that you just illustrated is leaders have to sometimes fake the confidence. But we need to have some kind of a group where we can actually say we don't know what the fuck we're doing. So one of the reasons we started the CEO alliance was to give all COOs a place to come in and meet behind the scenes to go. I'm scared. I don't know if what I'm planning is working. I've just recruited somebody. I'm not even sure how we're going to pay them yet. Where do you go right now? How do you kind of work through some of those worries so that your team doesn't see your leg shaking?

I have a lot of mentors, a lot of very, very successful mentors. I think in the years I've gone through, I think one thing I really appreciate about you as well is like, you're very heart centric. I started finding, it was very difficult to find hard centered people that are Making a lot of money, you know, and initially I had a lot of individuals that I would go to that were just money driven, very good at what they do, but they didn't really care about the people, they cared more about the profit, they cared more about the product, they cared more about, they didn't care about even the customers. And it wasn't until I really kind of found those kind of mentors that were like, that were successful, that had the same values, we could communicate and I can feel their authenticity that really kind of things started shifting for me. So I usually go to them. I have like three really big mentors that have sold and exited like massive, massive worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And they're the people that I really kind of go to for support in that way. And obviously some masterminds, but sometimes I feel like the mentors that are almost hundreds of millions are, have been more, you know, but it also depends. I've also never been in a complete COO mastermind. So that's also another different.

Not yet. Not yet.

There it is.

When you're working with a mentor and you're thinking of reaching out to a mentor, how do you approach that? Is it a one off call? Is it a regular call? Is. Do you meet with them in person?

You just take them out to dinner? Nice dinner, you know what I mean? I'm like, hey, you missed. Are you craving steak today? Let's go. You know what I mean? I'll take him out to dinner. Also just calls, you know, I mean I, I also provide a bunch of value because a lot of these mentors as well, I, I have a skill set sometimes that they also meet. So I'll just constantly even pour into them, like maybe their sales process something that they'll come to me. So we've built this kind of mutually beneficial relationship. Where are they? Leagues ahead? Yes. But there's also a lot of things that I can provide for them that they don't have and that they can come to me instead of.

You know, you've spoken a lot about sales and I've always believed that one of the core skills of any good leader is to be good at selling. Right? Not just selling to land clients, but selling your team to deliver more, selling your team to take on better challenges, selling partners to work with you. Do you agree and do you think anybody could be a second in command without being good at selling?

No shot. I don't believe that at all. Because you're literally selling ideas every single day. You're selling it to the CEO, you're selling it to the managers, you're selling it to the employees, you're selling it to the company, selling to the shareholders, the customers. You're constantly selling. So if people come in there and they're afraid to sell, this is not the position for you. You can't be a leader.

Yeah.

Like, you literally can't be a leader. And you can try and you will lose most of the time.

I've said that, that to my two boys who are 22 and 24, that the only time that no means no is in the bedroom. And if you're not in the bedroom, no just means you haven't explained yourself. No means that you haven't, you know, shown them different options. You didn't hear their objections. But in the bedroom, no means no. But in the rest of the sales world, you know, no doesn't mean no until they say F off. Get out of here. Right.

2%.

Get out of my office. So we're really starting to grow companies right now in pretty rapid change. Right. If the rate of change outside your business is greater than the rate of change inside your business, you're out of business. Yeah. AI is coming in pretty fast and furious right now. How are you, as a leader, starting to think about and leveraging AI and how are you working with people inside of your company on leveraging AI?

So that was one of the big chairs where a lot of the employees were coming to us and they were worried that AI was going to take their position. One of the big things I told them was, if you want to have job security, learn how to integrate AI and then make your. And learn how to integrate AI but also to triple the amount of workload you're doing. If you develop that skill, then we won't need to hire outside sources to do that. So in other words, I told him, I was like, I'm not going to sit here and tell you you're safe, because I don't know. And I don't know how the company is going to move. But what I can tell you is if you want to be very safe, this is what you should do.

Yeah.

And I'm all about kind of giving my team a heads up and being like, this is kind of what's going on in the company, just to be transparent. And I'm not trying to create fear, but also, I don't want to. I don't like the whole, like, yeah, one day you go to work and you're like, hey, by the way, let's have a talk we gotta let you go. And again, this kind of goes back to what you're saying before where it's just like, I always try to give people as much notice as possible. If I know they're gonna get rid of them or something is coming up, I'll give them warnings, sure, but they have to be on paper for hi, fire them.

It is the classic outage though, of like, you are not gonna get replaced by AI. You'll get replaced by an employee who's using AI. So, yeah, you have to be able. It's. It's kind of like you couldn't come into a company today and say, well, I'm not going to use a laptop, I'm not going to use wi fi, I'm not going to use the Internet. You're. You're not going to work here either. Right? So AI is just a tool that's at our disposal. If you were to go back and give yourself, you know, the younger you some advice, what advice would you give the younger you that you know to be true today?

Be patient. Be patient. You don't, you don't know it all. Like, it's just again, so much ego and even I still, I feel like I have somewhat of you, but I think it's more like a little more heart centered. But there was just so much where I just wanted to do it all so fast. And I was trying to avoid the suffering, I was trying to avoid the pitfalls. I wanted my team to love me before having them hate me in the beginning. I want to do all these different things. And what's crazy is I had to. I only learned those skills that I wanted only through pain, only through failure, only through losing the opportunities that I thought were going to change my life. So if I can go back and just be like, just be patient, it's all going to come. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep just getting better one step at a time every single day. And I promise you're going to be in the position that I'm in right now. But, you know, I learned the hard way, I shouldn't have to. But if, if you can, if you're listening right now, if somebody gives you advice, just shut up and listen. Especially if, if there's somebody that you want to switch positions with, please, for the love of God, just shut up and listen. Just trust.

Yeah. Whether you follow it or not is one thing, but just listen to it. Don't debate them on it. For sure. Take it. All right, what's next for L2?

We just got our capital funding, so we are super excited. Yeah. I mean, the company's already evaluated at 18 million, so I'm pumped. It's a whole new world. It's like, really first time playing with VC funding, so I'm nervous again. This is one of those moments where now I'm scared because, like, I heard all the horror stories. I'm trying to navigate, but I'm trying to listen. I'm trying to go to all my mentors. I'm like, all right, what is the best approach? How do we not get screwed? But I'm really excited because this is, again, coming from an industry where most of the things are bootstrapped. You take zero and you make millions. Compared to now, where I have all this money to play with and just build the company the way I want, it is a different mindset as a whole shift. So I'm excited.

I love it. Ahmed, thanks for being on the second grand podcast.

Thank you for having me.

Appreciate it.

This was amazing.