How To Communicate Ideas To CEOs | Cheerie Home Ops Manager, Talisa Young (Podcast 330)

When you think of an idea, it's your baby, right? And you don't want anyone to talk about your children. That's the way I think about it. So that idea is your baby. You're protective over it and you might also be very sensitive to the feedback that you receive. So it's our job as CEOs to make that idea work and to try our best to make that work.

All right, we have a great episode today with Talisa Young, who's the operations manager for cheery home. Her CEO, Keenan Hopkins and I have known each other for 10 years. She's also a CEO alliance member. She talks about some of the idiosyncrasies and challenges and successes they've had in building out a really fast growing brand in the home health care space. Talks about going from a corporate environment into an entrepreneurial environment and the adaptation that she had to have in doing that. She talks about her first 90 days and some of the struggles in the first 90 days of coming into an organization that already had 80 people in place. They've now got 160 a year later. And also talks about some of the imposter syndrome that many CEOs have and some of the mistakes and lessons along the way of dealing with lots of remote employees where they have almost one full employee for every client that they have. So a huge PDF factor on the employee side of the business. I think you're going to love this episode. Make sure as well that you also check out all of our episodes on our Second in Command podcast YouTube channel. In addition to the podcasts that you can listen to anywhere that you listen to podcasts, we'll see you on the inside. So, Talisa, welcome to the Second In Command podcast.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, really looking forward to, to sharing with you or learning from you today and to having you share some of your successes and also some of the trials and tribulations that you've gone through in being a CEO and in your the growth of the organization Cheery Home as well. So why don't you start off by telling us what Cheery Home is, what you do as a company. And then we're going to dive into some of the growth and some of the struggles in the growth and some of the successes as well.

Yeah. So Cherry Home Inc. We are a home health care company. The company was created by the founder, Keenan Hopkins. He noticed the disparity in care and economic disparity in home health care. So depending upon your economic status, even the area that you lived in, you could be receiving a different quality of care. He created this company to really shake up the industry, take care of caregivers, give them purpose and drive and really believe in them and build them up as well so that they create that same sense of purpose when they're in the client's home, and then they're able to then provide the highest quality of care to any client, regardless of their economic status. Right. So that's why the company was created. We have roughly 130 clients, and then we have about 162 caregivers. The last time I checked, we started out with two and a half years ago with just 50 caregivers. Truly a startup company. And then within 24 and a half months, we've grown to 162 caregivers, as well as office employees as well.

I love this. It's funny. I met your CEO, Keenan, 10 years ago. We connected, and he had this crazy, harebrained idea that he reached out to me about. He's like, what do you think about starting off a food delivery service? And it would be kind of like Uber, but for food, and nobody was doing it back then. Does he always have these amazing ideas? Because Shiri's doing great. Your growth is going to be fantastic. Is he kind of a traditional entrepreneurial CEO with, like an idea every hour?

Yes, all the time. He has out there crazy ideas. And that's why I think our relationship works, because I'm very receptive of ideas and I like being on my toes. I like the change, I like constant change. But I'm also a very, like, detailed person that can, like, take those ideas and, like, be transparent with him and say, okay, like, this is out there and this will not work, or this will definitely work, and this is how we're going to make it work.

So this is really, really important. And everybody who's listening has gone through this situation a number of times where the entrepreneurial CEO has this crazy idea or amazing idea, and they kind of drop it into our laps and then they run back to work. How do you take those ideas? And as you said, you're really receptive to it. You're glad to kind of take them, but then you also have a bit of. It sounds like an art to say no at times as well. How do you balance that out? How do you know how to say no? How do you say no to them? How do you decide which ideas are worthwhile to consider? But maybe later, can you kind of walk us through some of your thoughts around that?

So I Had experience. Earlier in my career, I worked with a franchisee who was also a CEO of another company. One of the things that I learned is how to communicate with CEOs and franchisees. When you think of an idea, it's your baby, right? And you don't want anyone to talk about your children. That's the way I think about it. So that idea is your baby. You're protective over it, and you might also be very sensitive to the feedback that you receive. So it's our job as CEOs to make that idea work and to try our best to make that work. So I always take that idea and I'm like, yeah, that's a great idea. So I always compliment it and. And then I work through, like, okay, this is where we're at. This is our budget, this is our staff. Is this ideal? And then how would I roll this out to my team that I currently have? And then who could I delegate parts of this project to to make it work? If it works, then I give that plan back to our CEO and I say, okay, like, this is how we're going to do it. This is what we need. This is the support that we'll need. And realistically, we can't afford it, but this is what we could do to make this work. If it's an absolute no, I say it's an absolute no. But it's after I've worked through, and then I come to him and I say, like, this is why this absolutely cannot work. Like, just to show him that I've tried every way of trying to make it work.

Interesting. So you actually think through all of the logistics kind of the who, what, when, where, why and how for every idea or every project, how do you know which projects to not even spend that much time with? Like, do you ever just, you know, what you're with your gut or, you know, after a couple minutes, like, that is just not the right idea or that's not the right time. Do you ever make any assessments like that, or do you put them through some kind of a process, even a very light process?

I make assessments like that with budget because we are a startup company. So if it's something like we want to add this position, like something we're talking about is like a culture position that's solely based on culture. Right. It makes sense to do that, but we can't. If we're looking at the market and what an employee of that caliber would want to be paid, we can't afford that in our company right now. So that's an example. So that's why I would come back to my CEO and say, hey, absolutely not. With where we're at and what you just shared with me as far as like cash flow, budget, we can't afford this person right now. But here is how I can make that work. We can focus more on our culture. We might be able to delegate that piece to a different person in our office or break it apart to where we're all taking care of what needs to be taken care of. So I guess to answer your question, I do think through it, like for each idea and then I come to him with the answer. Like, I don't think that there's anything where I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I always try to think it through and give an answer.

How do you present your ideas to the CEO in a way that they can kind of play with them or think through them because they need their ideas presented differently than they probably present them to us?

I present it to him like I would present it to an employee. So like, what would be in it for him? So what's in it for the company? So if I have an idea that I've just got off of a call and I'm fired up and I'm like, hey, this is great. Like I got off of a call last week and there was another company that said that they had a chief compliance officer and all that person did was focus on compliance and we're a Medicaid based industry, like, we need that. So coming to him and like, hey, if we hire a chief compliance officer, that's going to free me up to where I can market and I can get us some private pay client leads and this is how we're going to benefit from that. So I spent it to where it's like he sees the full picture of how it's going to work.

I love that. No, you're showing the return on investment for that idea. Right. In a way that, like, as you said, what's in it for me? What's in it for them? So one of the roles of the CEO in my view is to save the entrepreneur from themselves. You know, one of the things I wrote about in my book the Second in Command is that at times we're the brakes to their gas or we're the leash to their Dragon. When do you kind of step on the brakes? Is it because of budget? Is it bandwidth? Is it just because you've run it through the process?

Yeah, it could also be like culture wise, kind of the space that we're in. It could be something as simple as like we've had a lot of office turnover and we need to make a decision on a specific employee or we need to make a decision on headcount or we need to add a different person to our team. So I think it through that lens as well as like, okay, wait, like I'm boots on the ground, I'm in here, I'm in the field, I'm talking to the employees, I know how they feel and right now this might not be the best decision for Cheery and for our staff.

That's interesting. So years ago I was on the board of a company that's in your home healthcare space and then I coached them for a year before they really even had their first locations. They had their one corporate location. They've now got hundreds. It's called Nurse next Door. And one of the things that was very complex about their business and it sounds like you have the same complexity. So I'm sure the model is very similar. I call it the PETA factor. The pain in the factor of lots of employees to do the revenue. Like you're a very, very people centric business. You've almost got one employee per customer in a way which is like that's really complicated right now. You've got high revenue per customer because it's large monthly fees and it goes on forever. Recurring. How do you manage the people side of the business? How do you manage the PETA side of people?

Yeah, it's really hard. I come from retail and I think that that has helped me because if you think of like retail, it's all frontline employees and large retailers. You could work in an individual big box location. You could have upwards to 400 employees in your space daily that you run into. So I think that that has helped me because I'm used to dealing with a large number of employees and I understand the struggles that frontline employees have to where I'm able to connect with them. It also helps kind of how we break apart some of the, the things that we deal with on the people side in the office team. So like we have an employee success supervisor that directly deals with the team in the field. So then I'm able to coach through her of some of the things that I hear from the team. We also ask for regular feedback so they have to take surveys regularly for us so we can check in and see how they're feeling. We also follow the employees, new employees, 30, 60, 90 days. So we do like 30, 60, 90 check in, calls with them just to, like, get a pulse, see how they're feeling, keep them engaged. And then there's times where we call every single employee if we have a new policy that has rolled out just so they understand, okay, like, this is a new policy. This is what we're doing. We're constantly checking in with them, and it does take up a lot of our time, but it's how we have been able to retain employees and how we've grown to 162 employees.

I love this. So one of the things that I think has been really important in the growth of Cheery Home is that you have the real focus and almost an obsession around customer engagement and employee happiness. Right. So I'm going to balance this question out a little bit. I want to know one thing that you feel the company or that you are doing really, really well around employee engagement and keeping your employees happy. But then I'd love to know one thing that the company has really screwed up on and messed up on or that you've done wrong around the employee side. And what did you learn from that?

One thing that we do really well is what I just touched upon, like the engagement, talking to them, talking them through everything. We're very patient with our people. We have a very diverse team of different demographics and different backgrounds, so we know that everyone takes information differently. So we're very patient with the way that we roll things out and how we teach them. I think we do that really well. Where we have made mistakes in the past is we've hired the wrong people for that employee success manager role. If you don't have a person that is truly servant and people focused in that role, you're going to burn a lot of bridges with employees and you'll lose staff quick. So we did have the wrong person in that role. So coming back around, we did have to do a lot of repairing of relationships and engagement and apologizing. And then we also have had to be, like, very transparent with them of like, hey, we didn't have the right person in that role, but we have the right person now. And this is what right looks like.

What was it about the person that was wrong? What kind of did you find out? And then secondly is, do you think the company missed that on hiring when you were hiring or when they were hiring that person originally? Did they miss that? And how could they have found that in advance? I think it's a really good debrief for companies to recognize that we were probably excited when we hired the person. What Was it that we missed in the process that we found out about later?

Yeah, I think not investing because it is a startup company and there is a budget. We hired someone that was fresh into that role and we didn't invest in developing them into that role or prepping them to lead a large team of 160 employees. That is a lot. And that can be very overwhelming. And you have to be people focused and servant. I think this person was more operational, which was good in a sense. But that doesn't always translate to frontline employees who need like more of an emotional leader and more of an emotional connection. Especially with them being in the field. They need to feel connected.

Yeah. It's one of the reasons why I launched my invest in your leaders course is so many of these managers and leaders are all of a sudden promoted to their ceiling of complexity and they don't have the skills yet. Things like situational leadership and coaching and one on one coaching and delegation, like they don't know how to, as you put it, servant leadership. What does servant leadership mean to you? Is it flipping the org chart upside down where you're there supporting the person, growing their skills, growing their confidence? Can you go into more detail as to what servant leadership means?

It's exactly what you said. I think a lot of times when people hear servant leadership, they think that it means that we're letting the employees do whatever they want. And that's not what that means. We're still holding them accountable, we're still asking for what we need, but in turn we're asking for what they need and we're there to support them every step of the way. And I think it's also just like we talked about that manager being in the wrong person for that role. We didn't necessarily set them up for success. And servant leadership is setting your team up for success and giving them the tools that they need to be successful.

You just said something that I kind of jumped on right away mentally. And it was some people think that servant leadership is letting people do whatever they want to. How do you say no to Gen Y and Gen Z? I think we've lost the art of saying no. Where we've tried to become so inclusive and care about everybody's feelings. And how do you say no? How do you artfully, as a leader say no?

One of the things that like grounds me and how I say no is like, I think that that generation, like we have, especially with COVID and the pandemic too, like we have been like very like focused on emotions and mental health and how people feel. And that's great. But it doesn't mean that you don't do your job. You still have to do the job. You still have to do what's in the job description. So I say no by reminding them of what the job requires. Like the job requires X. This is what we need. And yes, we create a safe space for you. And yes, you can talk to me about how you're feeling, but it doesn't deviate from what we need you to do for the job. So I think no without necessarily saying the word no. No.

It's good though. I mean, it is a bit of an art that we've, I think, lost and have to get better at for sure. So you mentioned Covid. One of the things that's interesting about your model, about Cheery Home, is that virtually all of your employees, you know, all of the ones that are dealing with your customers are in the field. They're not coming into your office on a daily basis or probably even weekly or monthly basis, are they? They're pretty much always in the field.

Yes, they are.

And so how do you build that kind of a company culture where you're working so hard on building this amazing company culture and yet your entire workforce is distributed and work from home? How do you bring the culture to them like that?

One of the things that we do is not only do we call them and do check ins, we also just launched an app where we're able to reward employees and give them direct feedback from their clients or something that we noticed that they did, where they kind of went above and beyond. We also recognize their birthdays, their work anniversaries on there as well. And it's almost like a social media feed. Like all employees are able to kind of like come on there and say like happy birthday. So it's like something that keeps us connected and we're able to provide instant recognition. We give out gift cards on the application as well. So they're able to cash those in the points in for like gift cards to places that they'd like to go to. So I really like that. And then we also keep up with like constant email communication with our field employees of like any changes in the office. We're moving office spaces very soon, so that'll be something exciting. We'll do like a mixer for employees. So we try to do like small events that are impactful so that it connects them and we're able to kind of all come together.

I love that. What's the app called? That you're using.

It's called Nectar.

Nectar. That's really cool. Now, what about you and your role? I mean, you've been with the company for approximately a year. Where have you struggled in your role?

I think my biggest struggle has been, like, truly coming from a large corporation to a startup company, Coming from corporate, where the CEO is appointed by, like, a board of directors, to where now I'm working with the CEO that is, like, the founder of the company. It's much more personal. And with it being a startup, there's so many systems that we have to put in place. There's so many policies and procedures that we have to create. I've really struggled with that because I'm used to having that structure and I'm used to having things done for me. And then I think also, like, I struggled with imposter syndrome because it is a larger role and there's a lot of weight. I do a lot within the company. So I'm like, oh, man, like, can I handle all of this? Like, do I have the training? Am I qualified? So that's something I've struggled with too.

You just really touched on something really beautiful about the imposter syndrome, and it is absolutely present in every one of our COO alliance members and has been for the last six and a half years. Why do you think we have that imposter syndrome? What is that? Is that what keeps us in check? Does it keep our ego in check? And how are you shedding that slowly and realizing that you have the skills? Because you clearly do.

I think imposter syndrome is great. I think it does keep our ego in check. I think it makes us aware, it keeps us grounded. But it's not good to stay in that place. It's good to, like, you have moments where you kind of come in and out of imposter syndrome. One of the things that I do is, like, I remind myself of what I have accomplished, and then I have a really good family support system around me. So when I'm feeling like that, I'm able to talk to them and say, like, I'm feeling, like, a little inadequate or intimidated or, you know, like, this is really big. And my husband's like, wait, like, you've done all of these things. Like, you're qualified. You've got it. So sometimes I just need, like, that extra support and push and a reminder that, like, I am exactly where I'm supposed to be.

I love that. It's interesting. Like, it is the thing that I've noticed about the CEO alliance as well is the first year is all about connections and confidence, where everyone does get to meet all the other members and they slowly start to shed that imposter syndrome, and then they can kind of settle into their roles. So I'm glad that you're with us on that. Another question I've got. What was it that Kenan, the CEO, saw in you that made him feel like you could go from that corporate environment into the entrepreneurial environment? Because it's very different.

First, when I interviewed with Keenan, like, two weeks before I interviewed with him, I had wrote down a job that I wanted. Like, I just scribbled and it was just kind of creating my dream job. And then I saw the posting for Cheery, and I was like, oh, this is exactly like what I've been looking for. So when I interviewed with him, one of the things that I wanted was I didn't want to work in that corporate environment anymore. I wanted freedom. I've been trying to be, like, more creative. I've always been very operational, very structured. And so I wanted to kind of tap into, like, my creative side and bring some ideas to the table and feel like I was heard. I also wanted to see, like, my impact on a company. And sometimes in larger corporations, you don't always see that. Sometimes you just feel like a number. So I expressed that to him, and then I think also my background, he was looking for someone that could bring, like, some diversity and inclusion. And I have experience with that. An HR background. I have experience with that. And I think he needed someone that was people focused as well. And I have experience with that.

He saw the good parts of you and saw the great fit you because you had a vision for what you were looking for, saw that instant fit as well. So then that begs the question about your first 90 days. You join the company and there's also 70 or 80 people there that I'm sure a few of them wanted the job that you got. So how did you manage that transition where you get to come in now? You got a couple people that are a little pissed that they get to work for you that they didn't get the job. So how did you manage your way through that one? And then what was your focus around the first 90 days? Can you break that down for us at all?

The first 90 days was really about establishing connections and then also being very transparent with this team and proving to them that I was the right person for the job and that I had their back and building that trust and establishing that trust. So the first 90 days. I'm not going to lie. It was rough, especially coming from that corporate structure. You know, you have like an onboarding process, training, like a rollout, and, you know, a strategy to integrate you into the company and the systems. And there wasn't that. I know I was thrown in. So I think I created my own systems, my own onboarding, which was great, but it allowed me to, like, connect with the team. I also had a lot of meetings with them, I talked to them, I did one on ones, I asked them what they needed, and then I acted on that very quickly. So there was a problem that I could fix that was easy for me to fix, to gain trust with them and to establish that trust. I fixed their problems.

What's the biggest PITA factor with all of these employees? And how do you as a company manage around that, manage through that?

The biggest thing is that they're not adaptable, just the environment and, like, the demographic of our employees. Like, we change so frequently within a startup. There's so many things that we didn't know that we needed that we roll out. And then having to communicate that change to that large group of employees who are in the field, that is very hard. And how you communicate, because they can interpret an email in a different way. So a lot of times you have to, like, pick up the phone, go to a client's home, really do a lot of the work to convey just one message or one change.

I love that company. Why did you join the COO alliance? What was it that you were looking for and what was it that had you, you know, join, or was it Keenan that said you're joining?

So Keenan presented it to me as an idea because I had been asking him. He was like, what is the one thing that you feel like you're missing? Coming from the corporate environment, I was like, really and truly collaboration. Like, I had so many peers, I could pick up the phone and call if I had a question. And I'm also new to, like, home healthcare as well. So I'm in a completely new industry. It's a startup, and I felt like I didn't have peers to call or anyone to collaborate with. And I felt a little stagnant, too, because I felt like my best ideas came from peers and from just talking and bouncing ideas off of other people. So it has been really great for me to have a peer group.

The last kind of question around your growth. So what is it that you're working on today, other than the imposter syndrome and those connections and stuff? What Is it because I know you're very detail oriented. What are the skills that you're working on to continue to grow as a leader? Because every day this is the biggest company, you know, or not the biggest company you've ever been in, but the company is the biggest that it's ever been. Right? The company's continuing to scale.

I'm really working on like organizing, just kind of like planning my day a little bit better and also working on like my own development. So carving out some time in my day for like personal development. Whether it's like listening to a podcast or reading some of a book, I feel like sometimes I get so, so like, because I am detailed, I can get really into a task or really into the details where I don't step back and make time for my own personal development. Some of the things I'm working on, I just want to like, continue to work on people skills, organizational leadership, and really like carving out ideas and plans since I have so many ideas coming at me all the time from Keenan. So just how I'm planning that out and delegating that to my team now.

What about planning your day? You said that's something you're working on. Do you have a system in place for that currently? And how do you plan out your day and how do you. You say no to all the major things that you could get sucked into on a day to day basis as well?

I've had to really learn to delegate and then also be transparent with my team of like, okay, this is my day. This is what I have. These are my tasks that I'm working on today. I will not take on anything else. Like this is my Mac. So I've had to be transparent and I've had to say no. The only thing I'm using right now is my Outlook calendar to plan my day out. That's my biggest thing that we're using. We talked about like some different systems. We have a project management based system as well that we use, but I use that more so for my team. I don't really have anything that I'm using specifically for myself.

Does your CEO use the project management system or does he kind of operate in a vacuum around it?

He operates around it. So we put things into the system and I think he looks at it as a way to like keep him in tune with what's going on, but he doesn't use it.

It's incredible to me how many entrepreneurial CEOs believe in systems for everybody else, not for them. All right, Talisa I want you to go Back to the 22 year old Talisa and give yourself some advice. What advice do you wish you'd known or wish you had when you were just starting out in your career that you know to be true today?

I think saying no was important at that age. Knowing that I could say no and having the confidence to say no. Also just being kind and easy on myself, just knowing that everything was going to work out. I think I was so worried about who I was going to be and what I was going to accomplish, but just like trusting myself more at that age.

All right, I love it. Talisa Young, the operations manager for Cheery Home and CEO alliance member. Thanks so much for sharing with us today on the Second in Command podcast. Looking forward to getting to meet you in person in about 10 days as well.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

To be a really good CEO, you have to be good at operations. You have to be good at basic company systems, right? That's the exact thing you don't want to do as a CEO. What I would suggest for anyone who wants to have the seat is to say, can you give up the control of being the one who decides how things are done and just start saying, here's what I want to happen.