Black Man vs. White Man: Trump, Privilege, and Entitlement w/ Billy Gene Is Marketing

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, geniuses around the world, I'm sitting here with the man, the myth, the legion, Ryan Moran. Now, I just want to let everybody know, full transparency. Wow. This is so prepared, unscripted on everything. And last time we talked, we probably talked about everything except for business.

Yeah. And. And I kind of preferred it that way.

Yeah, it was good.

I think you said, hey, why don't you come in for a quick 20 minute chat on E Commerce?

Yeah.

And it became a drunken argument about abortion, Trump and racism in America. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was our discussion on E Commerce.

And then the title of the. The gathering was called Black man versus White Man. And I just thought that was a. This is. Yeah. Black man versus white man part two. And I don't know if it's necessarily that we're against each other, because we're not, but I think we're both very opinionated and got to say, you know, we just got shit to say. So having said that, you know, we're just literally rolling cameras and talking to a microphone and I have a drawing board in case there needs to be.

Any visual representation to draw. This is a black man and this is a white man and they're against one another.

Yes. This is black, white, and. Yeah, there you go. Well, you can't really draw white, so it could be red.

And that's racist maybe.

Actually, I would like your opinion. I say, you know, that's racist. I would love your opinion on kind of the discussion in the world right now that is so. I wouldn't even call it polarized. It's so tribal, like everybody has their own identity and we're fighting with each other's identities and we're not allowed to offend each other's identities. You made the statement that I disagreed with when I was here last time, which was that we were more divided than we've been since the Civil War. That was a direct quote. You said, motherfucker watched the old video and went back. I actually haven't.

I don't know if that's a direct quote.

That's a direct quote. We can find it. But I'm curious on your opinion. Kind of just this state of. Of that conversation in the U.S. i don't think.

I don't know if. I would not say we were more divided. If I did, it's probably because you got me so drunk. Or maybe I got you.

It was your studio, my friend. Your team was bringing the wine.

No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that. But I do think they're. I see where you're going with your question, and I'll address both sides as a representative for all black people, as one black person, and I'm speaking on behalf of every black person there. I would say there's definitely a lot of shit that goes down where people are screaming that's racist. Where it's not racist. And I feel just as strong, if not more strongly about the amount of people who are ignorant and unaware of how certain issues do affect races differently. I think it's. It's not always the same. It doesn't mean someone's wrong is. Is more wrong than the others, so to speak. But there's definitely a ton of ignorance around that give you an example. So I was just in the running for San Diego Entrepreneur of the Year. I lost. Fuck you guys. For Ernst and Young. Ernst and Young. San Diego Entrepreneur of the Year. I go to the event. It's at the grand del Mar in San Diego. Bougie ass place, right? Get there when I. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you I was the only black person there. And I made a video ran after about how, hey, you know, this is one black man calling out to like women, all minorities is.

Let's accomplish more things. Let's put more positive messages out there. And I wanna see more people at this event. That was my message next time. Let's get more people of color here. And I had lots of white people DMing me something like this, dude, it's not all about race. Who cares?

Why are you bringing up race? Very, very common, popular thing I get from white people. And.

That'S the disconnect for me.

Got it.

Is because it's like, this has one. I wasn't even talking to you. This is. I'm talking to other people of color who for most of their lives have only seen a successful black man in mainstream media as athlete, musician, very little in between. If you go into the 80s, 70s and watch TV, look at the roles that we had and look at the who we're striving to be. And it's my message, a positive one to that. And everyone else has taken. A lot of these white people were taking it negatively, as if it's something against them.

Well, it would have been different had you spoken out against the organism, against Ernst and Young and said they're discriminating because I'm the only black man here. That would have been different. But you just calling out the community saying, let's represent.

That.

And then that's one of the things. But you say anything, and then it's like you're pulling the black card. That's what I'll get from a lot of white people in my DMs. I'm like, no, motherfucker, I'm not pulling the like. That's what I'm saying. So that's the. I think that's the conversation that's being had today.

Yeah. So I'm curious, in your opinion, if you think that we are better off in this conversation than we were five or 10 years ago. And I'm trying to be sensitive in how I phrase these.

Please forgive me, let me phrase. Because I'm not.

So when we were here, whenever we did Black man versus White man part one, we're kind of contrasting the Obama era to what we thought was gonna happen in the Trump era. And I'm curious if you think your community is better off now versus five years ago.

I don't look like that.

You say, as a black person, as a black community, are we better off than where we were with Trump in office?

So just like in the macro, do you see your peers in your community better off, or did you did. Was there a better sense of, like, identity when you had Obama in office?

It's too broad and too subjective. Okay. Like, you know, where do I go with that? Like this? It's not like. It's not really any.

Like, the nut I'm trying to crack is like, I see my pocket of the world, right? And my pocket of the world sees the economy doing better than ever, seeing more equality than ever, sees more conversations like this happening than ever.

When you say more equal quality than ever, what does that mean?

The pay gap is smaller than it's ever been. The opportunities are pretty much democratized, so there's more opportunity for anyone.

So, as a white man, honest question for you. Sure. If. If. Do you think if you were black, you would consider voting for Trump? I mean, interesting.

Yes, that is a very interesting question.

Ask me in five minutes after I process this. I think it would matter who I hung out with on a regular basis.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I mean, I think it would matter on what I valued and what my background was, who my parents were, more than what my race was, more than what the color of my skin.

Maybe that's the disc.

I know plenty of white people who hate Trump.

No, and I get it. And you said those other things more than what your race is. And. And I think that's probably more challenging to do as a black man, is to put these other things.

Before your race. When race really does play such a major impact in my life, how my parents were raised, my grandparents, et cetera, it's impacted me so heavily. So because of that, it's probably harder to. To blow off or not make as big of a priority. You know what I mean? Or pardon me, does that make sense?

So we're gonna go down a rabbit hole here for a second.

Is there one thing that stands out to you? You asked me our last time, do I think that Trump is racist?

Yeah.

And I said, I do. Remember that? And I said, I don't care to give it any thought. And he said, but do you think he is? Like, I'm not a mind reader. I don't know.

Now do you think he is?

I don't. I don't at all. And now. So here's my question to you. Is there has to be one thing that stands out to you as, like, the minute that you decide, like, the minute you were convinced that.

He was racist or that. I'll give it to you, that that community was racist. Like, there had to be a clincher.

Besides the tagline of Make America great again. Mind you, if this. If making America great again, let's go back to 1960 or 59. We were drinking in different water fountains. So besides the motherfucking tagline of make America great again, when segregation was popping. And maybe I can go further back to when I was a slave. Like, I'm trying to go back to when it was great, because when it was great, in all those situations, I was fucking up. You know what I mean?

I mean, that's an interesting reference point that you've got when you think about the past.

But all color, that didn't just apply to me. That applies to color and women. Like, who was America great again for? You know? You know what I mean? Like, who. What do you.

Do you think that was implicitly implied? Like, that was implied in that statement?

Well, again, it's all subjective. Right, Right. Every human being is gonna read that. But to me, as a person of color, if I'm a woman, what does it mean? I guess I just have a hard time understanding what else does it mean. Maybe you can help me understand, like, what the fuck else does that mean? But America, Grant, ain't nothing about that shit. I want to do it again. Yeah, I'm very glad to be born today and not then.

Well, I mean, as. I mean, hell, I own capitalism dot com. When I. When I. When I see the rise of socialism, and when I. When my reference point is watching the demand of us, like the infighting that we have or the demand for government to do our bidding, I mean, if I was running for president, I probably would have said something like, make America free again.

Right.

Because I see. I see regulate. I saw regulations going up, tax rates going up. I see. And, and so fine.

Yeah.

So what I'm saying is, like my reference point, when I think about make America great again, and I don't have an. I didn't have an emotional response secondary.

To that is, you know, and again, that's just your perspective. That makes sense. Exactly. But it's secondary where. And I don't know if he's racist either or not. Right. But what can I. What I can tell you is I do know with how smart he is, and that's undeniable. You can like him or dislike him. He's fucking. He can get the whole world talking a second with the tweet. So I give him that. But I also know he's that smart and he could bring us all together like that. He has so many. He has so many instances to take a stand and say, black people, Mexican, Middle Eastern, Asian women. I'm here to help you all. I'm here to bring us all together. He can do anything that he fucking wants to, but he doesn't. He stays quiet and he keeps it because that's his voting power to get reelected. Right. Is going with his court what got him. And I don't know, I might be throwing that out there, sure. But what I do know is with his skillset, and I think you'd agree that if you really wanted to and make it his emphasis, he could bring to bring more togetherness than ever before. I believe that. And he doesn't.

You might be right. I'm also curious to see if the division becomes a tool over the next couple of years. For example, you and I are having a very respectful, polite conversation on topics that other people would get very, very heated about. Right. And so this is a little bit different than most people are. We're almost forced into this conversation because it's like all this crazy noise. Can we please have a reasonable conversation? So I think, first of all, it's our responsibility to unite, not the President's. I'm also just curious to see how.

He's the leader. He has a bigger responsibility.

Yeah, well, there's. There's part of me that agrees with you, and then there's part of. Of me that realizes that he does what he does in order to get certain things done. And those certain things have resulted in really good things for a lot of minorities. And, and, and, and as a result.

I, but like a white person tells us that it's, yeah, I'm not, I'm.

Not allowed to have an opinion on anything. Which, which kind of doesn't mean you're.

Not allowed to have an opinion. But like when you're gonna like, I'm not telling you what's good for you. That'd be like me sitting here. It's like, well, Trump has actually done this, which is benefit. I don't know if it benefits you.

That's a fair point. You know, that's a fair point. It's a fair point that.

You don't call out what's good for the white man. And it is a little bit weird for me to, you know, that's an interesting point. I think the only reason why there's a temptation to do that is because the individual communities tend to act as boss.

For sure. I get where it came from. Yeah, yeah, man. I just like for me is I would with the whole. I'll tell you a story. I was speaking at an event in like, where the fuck was I? Nashville. And it was the craziest thing because it was though you asked me about like, what made you think we were divided or race or whatever. And I'm speaking at the event and this looks 60, 70 year old tall white dude comes up to me and he starts walking towards me and he has a red, you know, fucking make America great again hat on. And in that second, and this is me, right, I got a divided group of friends, I got white people, black people, Mexican, Asian. You see, everybody in here is different races, etc, like, whatever, right in that moment went to, you know, obviously black family, went to private Catholic middle school with a but 97% white college. Like, I'm very comfortable in most situations that you put me in. And he walked up to me, old dude wearing that hat. And in that moment, I'm not going to lie, I had like 30,000 different thoughts about how he has to be racist. And it's because of what I was saying earlier of like, again, what the fuck does again mean? What does great again mean? Like, I don't get it, like make America great again. I just can't get away from that. So for me personally, and again, I don't follow politics enough to go into legislation and everything, but just that stand was like, wow. And as me as a, you know, someone who works with a lot of brands and stuff. If that was my perceived brand, like, I would want to change that, especially if I'm the President of the United States, right? You can't control that completely. Like, people are going to take what they want, but it was just weird. Now the moral of the story is he came up to me, he's like, hey, loved what you talked to. He's bought a whole bunch of our shit, been to our events. Mad cool, super cool dude. Like, you know, like, I would, I would argue he's probably not racist, right? Like, coming from there. Again, I don't know him, but like, you know, we're all a little racist. But it didn't, it didn't have that bad stigma to it, but it was, it was still scary as shit because I was just, again, I can't get away from again. It's even like for me, like, you know, if you watch a black and white film back in the day, like, I can't help because, like, we all visualize ourselves in the context of what we're watching. When I put myself into a 1920s love, you know, romance movie, I know I was the milkman, bruh.

That makes sense.

But you know what I mean, it's just fucking like, it's so for me, like, that's what I'm probably about on a bigger message is my favorite message that I get is when, you know, a person of any color or gender says like, hey, I love what you're doing. Or like, for example, like my license plates, you know, my Lamborghini says I'm black. And a lot of white people in DMs, they didn't like that. Why do you have to say you're black? Da, da, da, da, da. For me, I took the Lamborghini and took it, I drove it around recently to where we grew up at my grandma's house, right? And everywhere you go is honks and thumbs up and like, hell yeah, pride, pride, right? And again, these are minority dominated areas and they're like happy to see someone else who looks like them have successful. And that's it, that's what it's about. You know what I'm saying?

Like, so, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, especially when you zoom out and look at a broader, a broader time horizon, right? I grew up not in the 1920s, obviously, so I don't have that reference point. There's a member of our team who's half black. One time I said, hey, what ethnicity are you? And he said, you don't know? And I said, honestly, I've never thought to think about it. I legitimate. It, it bypasses my brain. And, and I think that's, that's what.

Some people would probably classify as privilege. That's, that's, that's. But that's like, that's, it's a delicate line. And I'm so.

But that does not make sense to me because, because let me ask you this. What do you think is the opposite of racism?

I have no idea.

Try.

I wouldn't even know. That's a weird question. It would take some thought. That's some, some Aristotle shit. Opposite of racism is.

I don't know.

Because we all know what racist is kind of.

But that's even fucking.

It's getting pretty gray now.

Everything is racist.

I don't know.

I think the whole thing is.

But, but I mean, overt racism. We know it and we see it for sure. Right? So what's the opposite of that? Because I, I say that there's some ignorance there.

Yeah.

You don't see it, but you, you're kind of blind to it.

I would say that in some terms, but to me, I would say there's ignorance on both sides. Like, I would think, you know, I would call. What you just said is like, hey, I've never really thought about racist. You are the epitome of ignorance. Like to me that I cannot think of a. Like that to me is like, yes, that's the problem is that's an ignorant ass shit. It's like you're not even realizing that his experience may be completely different from yours. You know what I mean? Like that I would argue that's a little.

Yeah, but I recognize that his experience is different than mine, but I don't contextualize it to a certain community or a certain way. And I don't treat him any differently based on that. I'm genuinely very curious about that background and we have great conversations about that. But, but I don't immediately have a reference point when I meet somebody of a different race or gender and make a bunch of assumptions about them.

I don't think that's true.

I think we all racist than privilege.

I think that's. I look, I'm a fucking advertiser. Like, probably before anything. Like, to me all I see is race. Like, I see a motherfucker and I'm like, how would I put an ad in? You know what I mean? That's how it goes. To me, that's such a great reference point. I see white, black, brown. I see big, small. I see skinny, large, muscular. I see it all. And to me, it's like a lot of people don't want to have the conversation that we're having right now because you brought up in the beginning. And I think the worst thing that could happen for our country, racism, is when people don't want to say shit. So if there's anything I can give the Trump movement a little bit of credit for is the fact that it's forced these hard conversations, which people. And I think that's where the progress is actually made, is actually sitting down and have a conversation with someone. Yeah.

I am genuinely uncomfortable at certain points in this conversation, which means I'm learning something or I'm growing.

And same in some way too. And, like, let's talk about that idea of privilege, because I think it goes.

I'd love for you to go there.

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's way too much.

Like, you just nailed it. It's like, how old are you now?

I'm 31.

So are you 31? I'm 31, yeah. Oh, yeah.

And how old's your daughter?

Three. Okay.

Mine just turned four.

Okay, there you are. So you take that. And you're right. You're like, dude, I didn't have any fucking slaves. I wasn't fucking segregated.

Exactly.

Right. I didn't have shit to do with that.

And in my reference, I don't see race. I don't care about race.

You're like, it doesn't even everything to you. And I get that. And then people are like, well, you're privileged, and da, da, da. And sometimes people want to villainize you. Correct. And you're like, motherfucker, I was born. Like, what. What you want me to do?

And now I feel the need to defend my position, which usually feeds the other side.

Right. To me, the easiest way I define. First of all, I hate the word privilege. Specifically privilege. I think it automatically makes someone defensive. You tell anyone they're fucking privileged, they're like, I'm not fucking privileged. That's. That's a bad idea to call anyone that. But the easiest way for me to, you know, kind of relate to someone about it is back to that you're the average of the five people that you hang out with the most. I think we might talk about this a little the first go around. But to me is, you know, maybe the better word is entitlement. I don't know there. Let me just kind of riff and see where I'm going with this. But a lot of people don't, like, so University of San Diego Keep going back to the example, because 97% white, like, I was one of few black people there, very few black people that didn't play sports. And privilege to me is what people don't realize is the innate kind of leg up that you might have traditionally, statistically, as a white male versus a black male. And what I mean by that is that average of the five people that you hang out with, like, if you go to, like, my parents, my parents both grew up on welfare, you know, grandpa murdered, uncle murdered, drugs, insanely infused into the community. That's what you knew. And so a lot of people give them credit for. I made myself, I brought myself up, I did my own thing. But look at the circumstances that you're playing for. When I went to University of San Diego, the average was, yeah, maybe your parents were middle class and maybe they made the 40 grand a year. But you got to realize in those other communities, making 40 grand a year is the goal. That's, that's like the if I can make a 9 to 5 and that's the goal people. I went to University of San Diego with their natural innate conversations that they were having from their parents. And good for them because I teach my daughter the same way was building companies, investing wealth, stock, you know, bonds. I'm sitting in finance class and teacher goes, hey, how many of you invest into the stock market? Everybody raises their fucking hands, you know, all these things. And all I could think about is like, holy shit. Where we grew up and spent a lot of time as kids, nobody even knows what that is. And to me, that's the quote, unquote, privilege. It's just two people, two different people take their color out of it. But most of these people have these experiences, and most of these people have these experiences. And to me, when the disconnect happens between these two sides is it's a complete lack of empathy for the other side. And so it's these people saying, I came from nothing and look what I'm doing. Let me be clear. Your fucking nothing is not the same as their nothing. And that's probably where I get defensive is when I hear people say, like, I did it all on my own, da, da, da, da, da. I'm like, no, you don't know what it's really like to start from the bottom. So that's the entitlement and that's probably the resentment that comes from this side. But then the other side, it's like, don't villainize people because they were born with where we want to get our Kids to, you know what I'm saying?

Like, don't make them the enemy exactly because of that.

But I think that's the disconnect is they're like, you know, don't call me privileged. I work for my shit. Dah, dah, dah, dah. And then the other side is like, no, you didn't have to work. And people don't realize. Like the true leg up is just having people around you who were successful and being able to look up and see people who look like you that were successful. Because when you see someone who looks like you, that's when you believe it's possible. Hope is not. Hope is a, is a true blessing that not a lot of people have. You know, if imagine growing up for 31 years and all you saw was fucking, you know, criminal activities, drugs infused, and the most successful person you Knew was making 60 grand a year.

So I'm totally jiving with everything you're saying. Now let me make an argument and then tell a very dangerous example that would get me in trouble. As a privileged white male, wouldn't you agree that privilege is less of a factor in success than ever before?

Yeah. Yes, I would agree with that.

So that's what I mean by.

Doesn't mean it's not gone.

So that's what, that's what I mean by more equality than ever, but still not equal.

How about that? Yeah, more than ever. Still not equal.

Here's where I disagree. Here's where I disagree. So I run a yearly event called the Capitalism Conference. Do you know what the hardest spot to fill every year is? The woman.

Yeah.

Now. Now I say the woman because I'm yelled at if I know. We tend to have multiple women on stage, but there's always a conversation. We need to have a woman.

Right.

Which is inherently kind of like sort of an offensive thing to say. Like we gotta have a token woman, right? But the conversation comes up of we can't have all men. Yeah, we can't. And it's the hardest one to fill because they're all booked.

They're all booked. Like all the one, all the headliners all too. And they're booked solid.

Okay?

If you want to be a high paid professional female speaker, you have more opportunity now than ever. And you have an easier time getting booked, but again than a man of.

Equal credit, but you keep using the word than ever. That doesn't make it the same.

So in this example, it makes it better, not the same? Sure. Okay, Let me ask you, Billy, what would the same look like, to you.

The same is going to happen with time.

You know what, at what point do you know that we're equal?

I don't know if there's a point of knowing that we're equal. And truth will be told. I don't know if everyone.

If we were equal.

If I'm right, we are equal.

If I'm right. Well, how would you know? How would you know that I'm right?

You. I wouldn't know. You were right. Like, you wouldn't know I was right. However, I think we can both agree on the fact that it's. It's like, what's a good way to explain that to you? Because I see what you're saying, and you. You bring up a interesting point to speak about most, you know, what.

Making love. But, you know, I see what you're saying. It's like, hey, for a woman, like, now is the time. Time. To me, I go kind of a step before that of just, like, likelihood, you know, going back to that example I gave you of like, hey, if this is the standard scenario that a black man or black woman, whatever, I'm using black because that's what I am is going through. And this is the standard of what a white male is traditionally going through. Who's more likely to win? If we're betting, who will we bet on?

I need you to say the example one more time.

Yeah. So sure. If I'm saying, like, you take a black man. Yeah. And, you know, unfortunately, a lot of black men know people in prison, drugs, all those things that I mentioned earlier.

Oh. Taking the stereotypical black man versus the stereotypical white man, who's got a better chance of being successful in this particular.

Case, I didn't use the word stereotypical, but sure, okay.

So I would say privilege and. Or race plays the least factor than it's ever played.

But would you agree that you would bet on the white guy?

I'm not sure that I would because in today's world, I bet on the guy who is coming from disadvantage.

But you. That's because you have. From my understanding of what you're saying, you have very little understanding of what it's like to be in disadvantage. It's, like, easy to say when you're not there. It's like, you know, again, like.

So there was a lot of assumptions made in that.

There was. That's why I said so I don't know enough. But, like, you know, well, I'll ask you, did you grow up in a predominantly poor neighborhood where, you know, there was A lot of gangs, murder, drugs and sexual abuse, etc.

Gangs, murder, that type of abuse? No.

And that would change your opinion if you live there for a year. On what disadvantages?

I think that's a fair point.

You know, I mean, so I think it's just like, that's what I meant. Back to the. Empathy is people just understanding. The reason why this is so close to my heart is because I feel like I got lucky. So people giving me credit for what I've created and what I built. And so do I, because I do work hard, but I would never be arrogant foolish enough to think that that was me. My parents went through the hard shit when they went from welfare to my dad selling cars to be able to put me in the private Catholic school. To me, with the deck of cards that I've been given, I should be a fucking multimillionaire. I should be a fucking billionaire. That's how I feel. Right. Like, with the cards I've been given, I feel lucky. I got to go to the good schools and I was always on sports and I was well liked. I had so many fucking benefits that came from them, that came from God, that came from other things. That's privilege like a motherfucker. Right? Like, that's. That's. That to me, right there is why I feel so passionate about success, because it's like, how can I not?

So I love that perspective because I would say that your stereotypical white privileged person is soft.

I agree with that.

They're spoiled. Their work ethic sucks.

Right?

They. They have had it made and had it easy for a long time, and not all.

And.

Yeah, of course. And they don't have the edge. Like, they. They don't. They don't. Their. Their privilege has made them unable to work as hard if somebody comes from the hood.

But it's an edge that everybody would bypass if they could.

Nobody's signing up for that edge. Like, yes, take me to the hood. Take me to all the bad shit. No, here's the. Here's the proof. Look how all the people that got out of this situation raised their kids.

Yeah.

Including me.

That's a really good point. But at the same time, I. I am very, very cognizant to not spoil Esther in sense of like.

Right.

I don't want her to. I don't want her to know what I do, what I make, and to think that she is going to get certain advantages because of who her dad is.

But she will. And she will get great about it.

And she will have her own disadvantages as a result of the opportunities that she too.

I agree with that.

So, so where I.

And that's what I mean by like the not equal thing. It's like, yes, those are disadvantages, but those disadvantage. And this is a great example because she'll grow up and you're gonna do a great job. Knowing you, like, of not fucking spoiling her. She's gonna be a hard worker all of herself. And then at some point in her life, someone's gonna call her privilege and she's gonna be like, fuck you, I busted my ass. My dad didn't give you anything. But the truth is she's privileged as fuck. And that's the whole battle. That's it right there. That's the exact example. Like, that's the, the cycle. That's the circle. It's like in both sides. Just have to say like, dude, good for her. She fucking came up with the good shit. That's awesome. You know what I mean? And her to say, hey, I was really lucky and fortunate. So I need to make. I need to go all in on social responsibility. I've really had these blessings, so I need to make sure that I pay it forward. Like a lot of people. Like, you know, hey, I would let my kids just do whatever as long as they're happy. I feel exact opposite. I would rather my fucking daughter be miserable as fuck and serve because of what she's given. Just fucking rolling around in fucking Lambo and fucking Penthouse and meeting some of the most successful people on the planet. You selfish fuck daughter. If you don't go all in on paying that forward, there's too many people who need it. She doesn't get the luxury of like, I'm just so happy. I want to be an artist. Fuck you. You don't get to do that, okay? Not in my house.

Let me ask you something. I think your greatest contribution is going to be your own happiness and your own success. You'll be a beacon, example. You will be an example and a present father. So what do you think the responsibility is?

So for me, for example, of other.

People who have made it, I don't.

Think my own being a beacon and being successful is enough. It's not enough. Like, you know, that's why, I mean, our mission is what it is. Like, we fucking give people the how to's. It's my whole business. I give people how to blink.

Sure.

As long as you have a computer and a cell phone in any area, no matter where yours, you can do the shit. And that's what you're referring to. Like, there's opportunity right now, but that's what I mean by actually doing. You know, it's not just me being successful. That's not. I feel like that's what everybody does is we get caught up in our own shit and like, we're like, well, you know, I'm going to travel the road for four years and take off, because that's going to make me a better person and purpose and give me perspective. And there's truth to that. But that's nowhere near doing something that actually is going to affect people. Does that make sense?

Well, it makes sense except for the fact that you got successful serving all of those people along the way. Which is why I say, at the end of the day, your success served a whole lot of people. That was your social response.

Yeah, but my particular business is that. But that's not necessarily true for everybody.

Well, somebody who is in a different industry has to be good to their employees. Has to be good to their customers.

Good. Yes, you're right.

There is an element succeed long term.

Look, it's capitalism, like what you're saying, right? Like, I agree with you to an extent. I just think, like I said, like, I don't think we're disagreeing there. I'm with you, but just like our kids, like, if I, if we, if we talk in 20 years and you're like, what's your daughter doing? Like, oh, she's just like, you know, traveling and doing her. I'd be like, bro, you need to get your daughter together. And I want you to tell me the same thing. My daughter's just out like, IG and partying. I'd be like, if you don't get your ass to work, girl like you. You know what I mean? Like, I guess that's just as long as she's building something that ultimately does put back.

Okay, so, so now let's make that.

Like, just being is not enough. Too many people want to be. Right now, IG models want to be famous for just being like, motherfuckers. Just want to be.

Okay, so do. What you are describing is what happens when people get soft as a result of having too much given to them. So, for example, right now, a lot of the, A lot of the conversation is around social safety net, raising minimum wage, universal basic income, which is something we talked about the last time we were here. That is what creates that mentality. When you have no disadvantage, there's elements. Then you get soft and you start doing Instagram selfies.

For sure.

So that's where I see danger in losing that edge, because you do go in that direction.

I, I see what you're saying, and we're kind of on the same page there. You're saying is all the government programs that are helping people that are actually hurting them because they're giving them a cripple, like a crutch, right, to lean on so that you don't actually have to work hard because the government's going to take care of you. Is that what you're going.

I think there's a role for government, but expanding the safety, the social. Let me try again. The safety social. I can't say that now. Expanding government's intervention does not create the change that you and I both want to see in the world.

That may be right. I truly don't know. I don't know enough about economics and everything that's going on with legislation to make a statement one way or the other. I'm sure there's some programs out there that are the difference, and they're not. I'll give you a great example. Some is bullshit and people take advantage of shit, period. Okay? Other things are there and they change people's lives. But I went to University of San Diego. I told you that. Right. But I only got in because of a program called the Equal Opportunity Program. And EOP is basically, my grades weren't, you know, enough or what I did. I didn't meet their traditional things. So I had to go through a more thorough interview process. It's an opportunity for Minority Center. And I got to University of San Diego and then look at all I've created because of programs like that. So I don't want to discount, you know, these different opportunities that can help people. And it's one of those things that's shitty because you're going to have a percentage of people that take advantage of it. You're going to have a percentage of people that just work the fucking system, you know, and that's what poverty does. You know, people act out of desperation and they.

I agree with you.

So, you know, that's a hard question is, you know, what is the solution? I don't know. Do I think government should definitely play a role in it? For sure. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's, it's hard without it.

So would you agree that as those problems soften or as we get more equal, that then the government's intervention should lessen?

I don't think equal means given, so to speak.

No. What I'M asking is that when. If the government steps in to provide new opportunities for people who are in poverty, as poverty reduces, the government program should also reduce.

I don't know enough to make an answer. It seems logical, what you're saying. I just don't know enough about that.

Okay, so. Well, the challenge, I think, becomes that when you have the government then reduce its intervention because the program worked or because the economy got better, then you have people cry against the rich man.

You're taking.

Exactly. Taking away from people, which, I mean.

There was so many absolutes in that. Right. Like the program working. Well, what does that mean? Into who? You know what I mean? Like, it's just hard to say. Like, did it. Why? I don't know. You know, like, I don't. I don't know. I don't. I don't have that. That answer.

All right, let me.

The one thing. I can't just, just flip it on that, like, I don't agree with, you know, and I like, it seemed like you, you are a believer in government. They should just change the role a little bit. Cool. But I think some people go to the other extent where they're just like. I've heard the argument numerous times of, you know, just allow the, you know, successful people the decision to create more jobs and put back in the community because they'll do it. And I think more people operate on greed than anything. And I think if we rely on just people's good mood or good heart, that will go nowhere quick because people are selfish and greedy first. Self preservation, number one. Human instinct. And people play on it.

I'm not sure what you're recommending as an alternative because tell me.

We are all greedy to some extent.

Sure, me too.

Yeah. That. That means that we're forced to serve one another.

No, no, it means we're forced to serve ourselves in that case.

And. And if we live in a free society, we have voluntary choice of what we purchase and what we listen to and what we see.

Yeah. But you and I can only. Regardless if, you know, when we're talking about someone who's in poverty. You know, you're almost making it sound like.

With. With what you're saying. You're making it sound like people in poverty are like, it's the best way to articulate this.

Repeat stumps. Billie Jean, Ladies, gentlemen.

Stop me. But I want to make sure.

I'm saying, I think the argument that you're gonna make is that in the. In a totally free market, I'm making the assumption that poor People will automatically do better because rich people will be benevolent. And that's not the argument that I'm making. I'm saying that in a free society, poor people have the best shot out of any other system. You asked an interesting question a couple, the last time we were here. You said that there was that everybody can't be millionaires. And I said that everybody can be millionaires.

And then I asked you does that make everyone dollar does that make us like all broke? Like if everybody has the same, like you know, right.

So, so in the last, in the last five years the economy has boomed and on the macro people are better off. The average person is richer than they were five or 10 years ago. So do you not see that as an example of us all there not being a fixed pie of there being an infinite amount?

I don't see how that's an example of that. But I do think that's good that there's been, you know, the economy is going up, but I don't see that connection.

So, so what I'm saying is the average person is richer than they were 10 years ago. The average person is way richer than they were 100 years ago. And we're many times richer than we were a thousand years.

A ton of good shit that's going on, but there's a ton of fucked.

Up shit too and there always will be.

Okay, well you're going to say there's they can, there can. There's an infinite pie and there always will be problems and no, the idea is to get rid of those. Right?

So and as you solve old problems, new ones open up for sure. I mean the cell phone solved a big information problem and now we have the problem of disconnect having our nose in our phones.

Let me sum it up is.

What I was getting at earlier is here's the deal. We got people with cash, we got people without cash. We got people in really hard situations, we got people in really good situations. I believe in social responsibility is huge. I do believe the people who are killing up here have a responsibility to fucking humans and mankind, especially people in our own country to help these people. I do believe these people on the other side have a responsibility to the fucking selves and to their families to win. There's opportunities, they need to take advantage.

Of them and stop looking for zero disagreement.

The end. Yep. Okay, so that's it.

So only thing here's where it gets messy of what the government comes in and forces people to do, right? Do you force the rich person to be benevolent and give it to the person who is struggling. Do you force the person?

Because everyone can move at any fucking time and go somewhere else. You know, like there's, there's a fee for. To me, there's a fee. Like there's a fee for what we have, the opportunities, their economy that was built off of other people's backs in a lot of ways, there's a fee and if it costs a little bit more you have to give their program you may not agree with or that you disagree, then that's what the fuck it cost.

Yeah, I think that was a very well articulated dodge.

Dodge it was that.

Because there's a difference between the paying for infrastructure and mandating that the person at the top be benevolent, that be giving that they take care of people that they do not know and trusting that politicians in Washington D.C. or your state Capitol are the wisest people to allocate where that money goes.

That I don't agree with. Right.

Like it's even, even philosophically if we were like, you're right, that person does have a responsibility. So the practical implementation of that is somebody in D.C. mandates think the role.

Of government should be to protect our.

Borders, to protect our freedoms, to enforce the Constitution, to protect our rights. That's the federal government. And then, and then on the state level we decide everything else.

So each state makes up his own shit in regards to the issues that we're.

Absolutely. So for example, cost of living in California a little bit different than the cost of living in Ohio.

Right.

So to have the federal government come in and mandate this same federal minimum wage like this, this idea that we should raise the minimum wage to $15 is ridiculous because the cost of living in this area is different than it is in that area. So let states work out their own issues. I mean even, even disagreement based. Even the Alabama abortion law, which I disagree.

Talk about abortion.

Let's go there. So I disagree.

Fuck was waiting for this.

I disagreed with the Alabama ab.

What's the Alabama abortion.

So they passed the law that it was a crime and they could prosecute doctors who performed abortions in Alabama. Right. And it's currently being debated among supreme courts. But anyway.

So you're. You think that's a whack assumption?

I think it's a little bit wacky. Yeah.

We're on the same page.

Right. So. So I am. Well, here's where I'm going. There was a whole lot. Everyone who had what's called a Facebook page was sharing their opinion. And you know what? I heard a lot of opinions from people who don't live in Alabama. I don't live in Alabama. I vote in Texas, and I don't have any sway over anybody who lives in Alabama. And that is what a republic is. We have a federal government that comes together for a few things, and our states decide everything else.

So you think states should decide the abortion laws?

I do.

Why?

I do.

I mean, what would that go, like, humanity? Like, okay, maybe economics. That was a completely great example of minimum wage is this. In California versus Alabama, it's this. They should make their own things. Cool. Copacetic, Everything is all good in the neighborhood.

All right, cool.

But flipping that and now you're just talking about human beings and being have abortion. Other certain states that. Why would one state have that and not the other?

Okay, so that was the ruling of Roe vs Wade. Roe vs Wade protected a woman's rights up to a certain point and then allowed states to decide from there.

Okay.

And so.

But why do you. Why do you. Why do you think that's a good idea? Fuck the ruling. What do you think?

Okay, so the broad question on abortion is when does a fetus deserve equal protection under the law?

Gotcha.

That's really the philosophical question that we are arguing when we debate abortion. Because you can say protect a woman's rights and I can say protect a wife.

Do you think there's any when to get to the good shit? So do you think there's certain states that should be allowed to tell a woman that they can't have an abortion?

If that is what the people in that state decide is best, I have no problem with it. At the same time, the ruling of Roe vs. Wade protected the right to abortion up through the first trimester. So that's the current law of the land.

But. But who cares? What. Like, that's so irrelevant. Like, just from like. Let's just talk about.

All right, all right. So we're talking Phil's philosophy, not law.

Is that right? We're just talking about just good person being a fucking good person. I believe we're going to that category now. Like, bigger than federal.

Okay, so.

So.

All right, so. So I will take off my I'm a nerd on politics and philosophy and I will put on my human being hat.

Yes, I like that.

Okay.

By the way, you're always wearing that one, whether you're showing it or not. You're absolutely right.

So in my context, I went to college thinking I was going to be a pastor Billy. So I have a little bit of a different background. I have come, I have reorganized my opinions on abortion. And I think that up until the point in which a fetus is not viable, it's dependent on the woman. And that is technically her body. Right? So up to a certain point, it is still her body. And what's going on in her body, the gray area becomes when is it not. When is it a. When is it a human being that is protected under the law? I tend to think that that's around viability, which is right around the middle of the second trimester. And Roe versus Wade protected it up to the first trimester and then allowed states to make their own decisions from there.

Got it.

So a lot of people think that Roe vs. Wade just protected the right for people to have abortions. It kind of did up to a certain point. And then states have their own flexibility from there. So that, I think is a fairly appropriate way to make decisions where the federal government.

I just, you know, I think there are some extreme cases where people are just very nonchalant about abortions. I think majority of the cases. Or women who.

Are probably feeling all sorts of ways and probably they have to fucking live with it for the rest of their lives as it does. I don't think they need someone else, a third party coming in and trying to give them fucking jail time or shit for what's already going to be the hardest decision in most of their lives that they'll ever have to go through. It's as simple as that.

There's. There's zero people. I don't think there's any argument there. The argument becomes, at what point point does that change? At what point is it a human life?

Look, I don't know enough about science, but I can tell you if that it's. If it's inside of you and it's your thing in your body, like, and someone's trying to tell me what to do and then how to handle that for the next 18 years. That sounds ridiculous in all accounts.

Okay, so. So the day before your due date, is it okay?

I don't know. It's never okay, right? It's never an okay thing, but it's not my fucking body. Like, I just, I'm not like, honestly, truth be told, I don't even know if fudgeing men should vote on it.

Yeah, I think.

I don't know.

I think that's a dodge.

I don't know.

I think that's not my shit.

It's like, you're never going to be pregnant. I never going to be pregnant. Like, Fuck. You know what I mean? It's just like going back to earlier, like you trying to tell a black person how they should feel about how the economy is doing and me trying to tell a white person about how they feel like the economy is doing. Anything between, like, it's, you know, there's a little bit of objectivity in there.

But a lot of it's just, well, so here. So here's the good news. 95% of abortions happen in the first two trimesters.

That's great news.

Right? So, like, when we're arguing. A lot of times when we're having these debates, we're arguing about the outliers.

Very, very correct.

We're having these. In most hot button political or racial conversations, we are often having arguments about the outliers rather than what is normal or average. And so. And so we're at each other's throats about the outliers, bringing up examples.

How do you feel about gay marriage? Pastor background?

I mean, I don't know what I think about straight marriage.

Billy, are you married? No, I'm not.

Okay. I'm not married either, but we each have daughters. I have a son on the way, by the way.

Congrats.

Thank you. And I don't know what I think about marriage in general. This is actually a very interesting debate and question for me.

So are you. Are you more of. This is funny. I'll talk to you about, like, let's go white people for a second. I stereotype like a motherfucker. Like, I. I always say I'm the least racist. Hispanic. I go. I go. I'm the least racist because I'm racist against everybody. Right? But you know, a lot of white. The white community things.

You can say that I can't. Okay, keep going.

A lot of white people or, you know, especially like in Sunita's area in North Sally Austin. I know there's a lot of shit, too. A lot of white people are very communal about relationships these days. That's just a fact. You can check history books and everything else you want.

What do you mean by communal?

Like, hey, you know, open, open. Okay, let's go to Burning man and fuck everybody. Burning Man's great.

I've never had sex at Burning man.

But Burning man likes man.

I'm this. I'm the sober, straight guy.

Forgive me. Let's trade spouses. All the games, babe. Very popular things in the white man's world. Can you share some. Shed some light, Educate me about just white people in their.

I don't Know, I'm. I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure I'm your prudest friend Billy. So, so. But I gotta, I gotta put a man in. Don't do drugs.

That's.

That's what happens.

But you know what I'm talking about in regards to the, the entrepreneur community, it seems like in the spirit, more spiritual, you know what I'm talking about?

This is a great tie back because I think what you are seeing is a lot of privilege caused people to be unhappy because they got soft. So we have lost kind of our tribal and communal identity. And so we are trying to find it in weird ways. We are, we are trying to remanufacture tribe and identity because we tend. The wealthier you are, the higher the propensity for loneliness and isolation because you can afford it. Right? So yeah. So you tend to live alone more often, you tend to live in big houses further away.

Correct. That's good. Correct.

So the wealthier you get, the more you tend to isolate.

They say white people are too bored.

Us white privileged people, us white privileged men are bored and we're trying to fuck some shit up for entertainment.

Okay, makes sense. Right.

So. But, but the reality is as you separate now, you've got, if you're following the traditional narrative of one person is going to complete all my needs, we both know that that's a fallacy and so we find other ways to do that. It used to be like my grandparents have been married for 70 years. I don't know how they don't hate each other, but they play cards together every day. Right. My grandfather had a bunch of work friends, a bunch of out of work friends. My grandmother had her bridge friends and they had a big family. There were lots of people around. Right. So if you wanted to have an intellectual debate, you did it with your drinking buddies. Right. If you wanted to talk shop, you did it with your co working buddies. Now we expect fewer and fewer people to fill more roles and that's breaking down, which is why I'm still open to marriage. I'm still willing to get married one day. But I'm skeptical of the model based on where we are and our social framework right now.

So will you get married in the next five years?

I. I have my doubts. I don't know that I'll.

Do you want to?

I think I. Sometimes I think I do. Like sometimes I think I want to get married. Sometimes I don't at all. Sometimes. Sometimes I play the statistics out.

31. I mean sometimes I play the statistics.

Out And I'm like, and I'm like, I don't, I don't know about these statistics. 60% of marriages end up in divorce. Why would I be so arrogant as to think I might be different?

And that doesn't mean the other 40% is happy.

That is absolutely correct. So I asked Gary Vaynerchuk what he thought was the future of marriage. And he said, based on the trends of things, I think 50 years from now, where more or less people be married, I think less. I think his argument was that he thought we'd probably. It'd be normal for people to have three long term relationships throughout their life, which is kind of what we see in a lot of cases now. I don't know.

So who's gonna be your 20s husband? Who's gonna be your 40s husband? Who's gonna be your retirement husband?

Right. That's kind of the trend now. Right. I don't know if the open thing will or the poly thing will play out.

I don't know.

I think right now as a society we're trying to find what the model is. And the fact is there is no model.

I was going to say that might be the model is to realize that there's no fucking model. Do whatever you want that makes you happy, right? You want to suck dick, suck dick. If you want to fucking, you know, eat a vagina, whatever you do, like.

I don't know how to recover from that one.

Dude. Do what you want. Do what you want, you know?

So I have, I have mixed feelings on marriage. I'm not, I'm, I'm not sure I'm open to it. I think that my brother, for example, has married the, the first girl he kissed, right? Like they, they met when they were 15. They've been married for like 13 or 14 years.

They almost wonder, is that better though? They don't even know what they're missing.

Exactly. They're best friends.

They know what that means.

But the thing is, is like they're perfect together. And I think that happens. It's just rare. And we think it's the expectation.

It's the same thing. Goes on one trip to Vegas, oh shit, you go on one more trip to Vegas, everything just goes to shit.

So it's the same thing in like business, right? We all talk about the success stories and we compare ourselves to the success stories and we think it's normal because it's the ones we talk about. But the reality is fast successes, deca, Million dollar businesses are rare. They are not the average and in this world, we are comparing ourselves to the outliers rather than what is normal.

Let's talk about entrepreneurship, for example. What's your take on.

It seems like there's a big movement for everybody wanting to be an entrepreneur. And I was just having a conversation with somebody close to me who does extremely well in sales, you know, almost a million a year being sales, and says, yeah, you know, I, I don't know, I'm. I'm thinking about going out doing my own thing though. And I said, for what? You make money, you don't have to take any of the fucking liability. You don't have to do shit. Like, you're in a great fucking spot. Why would you want to assume all the shit that I gotta do? And I'll trade shots and I'll take your shit and I'll go, You know what I mean? Like, is a very good thing. But it's right now the narrative's so hot about be a fucking entrepreneur. Be an entrepreneur. What are your thoughts on that?

I think people have mistaken the connection between entrepreneurship and freedom and they assume that being an entrepreneur means you have freedom of choice. The reality is I think the next trend will be entrepreneurs working for other entrepreneurs. People who are entrepreneurs now don't really want to be entrepreneurs. They want freedom. Now you can have freedom within an organization. You can have freedom by reducing your expenses. You can have freedom by being a capitalist. You can have freedom in a variety of different ways. I think that right now the model has changed from nine to five, 25 years ago to now. We're all rediscovering what freedom means to us. And that means right now it means going out on your own. And that will play out and plenty of people will get punched in the face because being an entrepreneur is really hard. We both know it means lots of 18 hour work days, a lot of worrying about money, a lot of overhead, a lot of shouldering the burden, a lot of taking care of other people. That does not look a lot like free time and calling your own shots. It means a lot of hard work and doing what it takes to serve as time.

And you get that, right? But I just like, I want to tell people, I'm like, look, you don't have to be an entrepreneur. Like, there's good shit, no doubt about it, but like.

This comes with some extra shit. And right now I've seen everyone is so impatient to get. It will do something for four months and be like, I've been at this so long, it's not working like what are you. What are you talking about? This shit takes a decade like everything else that. You know what I mean? Like, that's. That's what it goes and stuff. So many motherfuckers are unwilling. And everybody wants to go fucking traveling because of Instagram. Stay your ass at home and go work. Everybody want to travel. Fuck me if I see one more like.

Let'S flip this just a little. Because if you want the lifestyle where you travel and do the Instagram lifestyle, it takes a lot less money than you think you need. Right? The challenge is when you think that you can have the car, the house, the travel, the plane, the Instagram, all this and be free and have an easy life. No, no, no.

I said that there's a. People mistake entrepreneurship as equaling freedom. I also say people mistake money as equaling freedom. They're different. Freedom is its own thing. Freedom and money are mutually exclusive. Money expands the menu of options. But freedom is freedom. It is not correlated to money.

That's good.

Freedom is calling your own shots.

You should chop that shit up. 60 second banger.

You also made a statement that was interesting. We were talking about the burden that you carry as an entrepreneur. Right.

That is not fair. Freedom, per se, in the sense of, like, you can command the life that you want. Like, I made. I probably made more money and had more free time when I made less money. Right. They're different. So I think the buzz around entrepreneurship is because we correlate it with freedom, and what we really want is personal autonomy. But eventually it will play out that we can get that in other ways as well.

It's good shit. Any other subjects that we should go down a fucking.

Yeah, there have to be. Okay, so. So, Billy, there's something that really bothers me, and I need your opinion on it. And it. And we only scratch the surface on it.

Xbox is better than PlayStation.

Ooh.

Yeah.

You know, I actually agree with you.

Good man.

And it's this thing, I think, called the universal basic income.

You know, this term about everybody just, here's your money and go live.

Yeah. Yeah. I need your opinion on this, Billy.

Yeah, I think that's fucking stupid.

All right, cool. That was short enough.

So, I mean, some people don't deserve it because they have. I hate the word deserve more than anything, but mostly when it's like, I deserve X, Y, and Z. Like, I'm not a fan of that, but, like, it's just like most. Some people are assholes that are bad people that are doing horrible things that don't contribute Value and like, I'm not the motherfucker who's like, well, who cares? Love them anyway. I'm like, no, fuck you. I don't believe in that shit. Like, some people like, no, no death penalty. Just forgive them. Like, no, that's the chair. So choose. I don't give a fuck. Some people deserve that.

Welcome to being a Republican, Billy.

No.

Let me ask you, do you have a horse in the race in the next election?

No. I don't even care. I'm horrible. I'm so bad about all the politics. I couldn't tell you who the fuck is running. I couldn't do anything. I have no idea.

It's just like there's a very old man on stage.

Exactly. Who says a lot of crazy things. Yeah, like that shit. Like, I just honestly like your shirt. Entrepreneurs make their own economy. Like, you know, I'm a believer in that. My job is like, I'm gonna put my head down, let the noise keep going. I'm going to keep equipping people with the skills that they need to create fucking financial freedom and whatever. Whatever that means to them. Regardless of who.

Let me ask you, what, what is freedom to you?

I don't know if I really have like an answer. I just say doing what you want when you want it. I just think it's understanding, being happy with, understanding that doing what you want when you want doesn't mean you're always going to do what you want when.

You want.

Do you know what you want?

It changes. And I think when I get into the, you know, depressing states that everybody goes through as you grow, I think it's because we just don't reset our goals, you know? Like, I think because in the beginning it was like, yeah, I'm in my parents house, like, how do I get out of this uncomfortable situation? Let me, let me get away from this and get my own place. And that was like, that journey was so like, you know, obsessive. Like then from there it was like, okay, well how do I, like hire my employees and like make a team? That Journey became. And now we're at this place where it's like, I feel good. We have our fucking studio and our office and my house and all the fucking douchebag cars. Now it's like resetting again, you know, okay, hey, like, what's going to be the driver that gets you, gets you going? And I notice whenever I don't have that like next. You know what I'm saying? That's usually when it feels a bit lollish.

I'm in the same spot, and I've experienced what you're describing, and I have this phrase I've been playing with, is that freedom is in the doing. We think that freedom is the absence of responsibility, the absence of having to do things. But you are really free when you are doing the thing that you want, right? But I think we as human beings are really weak at the what we want.

And let's not forget how bored we get. Like, take everybody. You have two weeks off. You go two weeks of not doing something, you're like, get bored. What the Should I do? Yeah, that's everybody. We are wired. That's such a fake thing. You nailed it. It was like, yeah, like, I just. I just want nothing. No one likes doing that. That's not real for a little bit of time. And then you're like, God damn, man, I'm a piece of. I ain't doing.

We are wired to solve problems, and the challenge is in, like, what is the problem that is meaningful enough for us to put all the blood, sweat, and tears into it that we are willing to climb that mountain?

And it always changes. You know what I mean? Like, I think, like, right now, like, my focus is my daughter, right? Three, Like, I want her doing cool. I want to teach you how to edit videos that are really disgustingly engaged so we can make videos, you know, like, this changes. And sometimes it's the team and, hey, let's go on the team and make them better. And sometimes it's, yo, I just want to buy a car right now. I want a Jacuzzi on my roof. That's a big thing for me. Stupid shit. Then sometimes it's like, God, I just want to impact every person and host events and go speak and touch people, you know? And then it's sometimes, like, I don't want to hear about your shit. Leave me alone. Like, it's just very human. You know what I mean? I think everybody. It's just like, when I. I spoke a lot this last three years, and I thought that was the thing forever. When I wasn't speaking, it was like, I just want to get where I'm going. I want to speak at all these places. And like, I. That's the thing. I want that. I'm like, God damn it, if I have to speak at one more motherfucking event. Taylor, cancel this shit off my schedule. It's just the fucking progression. So I just tell people, it's like, whatever you're doing, I promise you, you get tired of it, you have to go to the next chapter of it.

Billy. I don't know why, but I actually felt like a relief when you said that. There's something about. I've never heard somebody phrase it in the way that I've thought about it. And the fact that there's another human being that has experience where, like, I got the thing that I thought I want to do, and you're like, actually, this kind of sucks.

Yeah, fucking sit in a plane and do there for 30 minutes.

Exactly.

Now you're. Yeah.

And the truth is, like, we are all winging it and figuring it out, and we all think the other person.

Has Justin Bieber or Taylor Swift.

Of course there was a Justin Bieber. Taylor Swift.

Right. But it was like this thing. I was like, hey, they decided that they're doing no more meet and greets for the rest of their thing. And the fans are, oh, my God, so selfish. Da, da da da da. And I'm like, dude, can you imagine going from city to city, traveling on planes, shaking hands for like fucking three hours every night? You'd be like this. Like, at some point you have to protect yourself. You know what I mean? It doesn't make them bad people, but it doesn't make them very human.

Yeah.

And so, you know, just. I'm okay with the changes. And just one of our core values here is embrace change, you know, with grace and flexibility, because that's the game.

Can I ask you a few rapid fire business questions?

How are we doing time? What time is it?

I have no idea. I think it's October.

We're good.

Question number one. Do you fear losing at all?

No. That's one that I just played footsie with you.

That's all right. Let me take my shoes off so I feel better.

Yeah. Nah, you know, that's one thing that has.

That was a great question, dude. I don't think about losing because worst comes to worst, I think the win will just look different. I'm so.

The win will just look different.

The win will just look different. In other words, it's like, okay, hey, maybe this model of what I thought it was going to be is cool. But because this is really the skill set to make money as, you know, it's like, all right, I'll just put a different out. I'll make it look different. Like, I don't know. I've just never been more confident in my skill set. I really feel great at what I do. So that's what gives me the strength of. Of not fearing that.

Yeah, got it. So you're very, you're ad driven. You teach creating ads. You're kind of known for your epic ads. So you don't fear a change in ad platforms.

I'm actually excited. Cause it's still an ad. Yeah. Cool. We bet on it. We bet on the fact that everyone's doing Facebook now. Then it's gonna be YouTube and then it's gonna be Jubilejoo and then it's gonna be VR. And when they do change, they're going to keep buying our shit because we're going to keep saying, hey, it all changed, you're freaking out, but this is how it's done.

Yeah.

And it's my greatest passion too. I love fucking. Well, sometimes I get in function, I'm like, I don't want to make another app. But then sometimes I'm like, all right team, let's go all in. I love that shit.

Okay, cool. My next question is, you seem to have scaled a lot in the last three years. Your team's a lot bigger and you're a lot more well known. What has been the primary drivers or primary decision decisions behind.

But I, I will, I will go deeper for everyone and I'm sure you'll agree with this, but simplification, oh, tell.

Me more, tell me more about being simple.

Passion like simplification. Like.

Every single time I've made a step to add on to the business or do this and this and this and that and word. Surely enough, we've always stunted growth. When we just say simplification. This is what we do. It's the one thing. And repeat it. I don't even say scale, I say repeat. That's ingrained in my thing is repeatability. What can we keep doing again and again and get better? Because one thing I found is when growing a team, when there's all these new changes, it's really hard to level up your team. Which means it's really hard to level up the profitability and the efficiency. So I have been obsessed with simplification. Like right now I. Dude, years ago I sent out an email And I fired 150 clients because I felt like we were too spread out. I gave them a 30 day notice and said, well, we're gonna do this. We're going all in an education. We're gonna be a rival there and again. Every time it's just speed and simplification because of repeatability. And that's when the team can get great at something and that's when you see the most growth.

So can you can you explain to me how in that context you simplified it sounds? I know you had an agency. I'm assuming that doesn't exist anymore based on what you're just telling me.

And you went all use it differently.

Okay, got it. So what did simplification look like to you?

Yeah, so it got busy when it was like agency hundreds and hundreds of clients and then it was like speaking event and then it was like fucking courses and hosting a course. And then it was like well let's do a private event. And then it was like well let's do this and let's.

You were doing lots of different things. Exactly. And you just decided to be choosier about what you're doing.

Our focus just got all over the place and. And the team would get frustrated. They got overworked and changed. So now it's just what do we sell? The genius advantage. We help people create ads. You can pay monthly or pay annually at the end. Yeah, that's one upsell if you want more. Hands on support with our team. School of genius. And I've also, this has been a big change. I've also made peace this year around my birthday, May 1st, I made peace with the idea that this is not going to be the only thing that defines me. I think before because for the last decade this has been my thing. The Billie genius marketing and da da da. And I've always just associated this. But now I'm like, no, this company is going to be a cash asset that spits out cash for myself. And the team helps a bunch of people, builds the brand like crazy because we're spinning ads. So it allows me to do that, let me leverage that brand and let me go into mobile mode now. So from 30 to 40, I'm looking to do some cool shit, you know, dive into the real estate game, maybe go a little bit harder with stock market, you know, start some other companies and shit. I'm really looking too, so. And the hard part is, is I've had to let the team do a lot of things. A lot of the, you know, something unique about this company is that I've done everyone's job from video editing to fucking sales to the back office. The numbers, even though horrible at some of these things, but I've done them all. And I bottleneck the company because it's always relying on Billy. And so, you know, I can't relate at all. You know what I mean? But the challenge is, you know, letting go. Okay, I'm let the team do this and knowing that it's going to be bad, not. Not good. It's going to be bad at times. There's gonna be some great times, but it's going to be bad. And finding peace with, yeah, this is an investment. This is a monetary investment. I'm spending money to let them grow and to me, get smarter about processing systems and making systems. That's beautiful. And yeah, it's the biggest investment ever because right now, if I. I'll give you tangible.

I'm sorry, it's so weird to hear you saying this because this has been my exact transformation over the last two years.

Well, we're in the same path. There you go.

It's actually really kind of trippy how you're describing it.

I think it goes to that Scaling up book by Vern Harnish is. You realize it's not the entrepreneur, it's what happens. You know what I mean? Like, it's the next step. It's like, you know, first you crawl, then you walk. Then you know, that's it. And like, the sales team, though, is a great example of losing money is, you know, at times they can be amazing. These can do great. But, you know, I know. So, like, I think they'll do like 350 this year or this month in like, whatever they're selling. Right. But I know if I took all of those calls, we would have done 750. Real talk. They'll tell you the same thing, too. Think about how much money that I'm letting go. And it's not much money. It's just happiness because I don't want to take up my sales calls right now at this point in my career. But I have to do that to allow them to get better, then listen to the recorder, call and workshop, you know, it with them. But that's also what makes me feel more comfortable about the L. Because if I need to come in and we're in a cash tight spot, I know I can kind of step in and substitute myself and get us out of it. That makes sense. So, yeah.

So you've built out an almost intimidating studio. This place is amazing.

Thanks, man.

So that's not cheap.

No. We spent a million bucks on all this shit in the back office.

Yeah. And you've got an incredible team. That is very attractive. Right.

So let them know.

So. So tell me, what has been the financial driver behind all this growth?

Ads. I hate to say it like.

Yeah, but ads to what I'll be.

I'll be specific. Ads to video sales letters. Straight up. It's. It's our. It's our everything. It's like, you know, and if we didn't invented y' all like an infomercial was like, they told you the secret. They're like, hey, we're just going to get on video and record a presentation and you're going to watch it. And some will buy. And do they. Do you make more than you spend? And that is our whole model.

I wish it was more complex. No, it's fucking getting great ad advertising. And when we have an ad that works, spending a shitload of money on it, we try and be around. I think the market is a $500,000 a month budget on our brand. When we hit that, and we're also making our margins, it also puts us out in front of the entrepreneur community like no other. Right. I don't even know another entrepreneur outside of your, like Gary V's that are probably seen more times than us because we just spend more money on it. Yeah, that's kind of our whole playbook.

You're sending them to Facebook ads or.

To ads training, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and pretty much the VSL is like this. Hey, you're here right now because you saw an ad. My background as agency is how I learned all this shit. Working with these companies. My students work with all these companies. This is what we do. If you want us to teach you how to advertise, to grow your business and stop fucking depending on referrals, click here. That's every message period. When I'm on stage, podcast, it all goes back to me. I'm adjusting up differently. That's the core, though.

Yeah, that's beautiful, dude. I'm trying to find a controversial final way.

I had to close up.

Final question. We already covered. Wait, wait. We covered gay marriage, we covered abortion. We covered isolation and loneliness. Actually.

Let's go. I'll give you something.

Let's go. All right, go ahead.

Interesting perspective again. Me being racist, and I just jump right in there. You know.

I think we'll call it privilege, even though I don't even like the word, but just for the sake, same term, you know, suicide. Horrible thing.

Yes.

I've had some close people in my life gone that way. It's just the worst. Right? All on the same page there. But, dude, I. I'm. I'm. I have a really hard time with traditional therapy right now. Oh.

And I've done a lot of therapy over the last two years.

And I've. I've done some too. I've done some too. And you know, the prescriptions and the medications usually come with this for stress and anxiety, where I genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, believe people just need more experiences and need to just go through more bad shit. Now I'm, I'm not a fucking psychologist.

But I'll tell you this, this is going to be good.

Where, where sue is. Who is the. Who is the person who typically commits suicide? The affluent, the white male. Right. Yeah. And to me, it's like, you know, the herds, like, get bigger problems, get better problems, et cetera, you know, if you.

Or get soft and purposeless.

Yeah, all those things. But one thing that you don't see as much and the minority community is suicide.

It goes deep. It's like, yep, why? And I honestly believe just being tougher and just going through more shit. Yep. When you see people fucking die all the time, whatever the fuck happens up here, you just don't care, you know? And so I just think there's this really depressed, like, people are really buying into depression. And I need to take this and I need to get my melatonin to fall asleep and I need to do this and do this. Like, no, motherfucker, you need to go through some shit. And it's just so strange to me. Like, it, like. And I feel weird about it because I don't want to sound unapathetic to people going through depression because I know it could swallow us. We've been there. I get things happen. But if that seems like the end of the world, then you need to dive into some shit that's the end of the world. You know what I mean? Like, I think you'll be instantly solved, and I don't know if that's right.

There are two things that make our lives feel fulfilled and happy. Meaning and community. When you are affluent, you lose meaning and community. So our psychological needs are met less. If you are not constantly doing what you're saying of redefining your goals, going back and having. You called it social responsibility. I call it plugging into your people. Like, I'm more wired and more incentivized to take care of my team, my family, my neighbors, the people I see on a regular basis. And that also gives me meaning and it gives me community. If you don't have that, the higher up you go, the more you isolate yourself, the more depressed you get, the more removed from community you get. And that's when suicide rates go up.

So. And I. Same page makes sense and it's well put. Now here's the other side to it, right? Is. And I don't know if this is right, but I think I have this unique perspective where I've just hung out with so many white people, so many black people. Like there's this thing of, you know, black people to a fault. And I speak with black, but I know it's a lot of minorities, black people to a fault. We're traditionally stereotypically not good at talking about our shit. And you don't talk about your shit, you deal with it. You don't spread it out. You keep your shit to yourself. A lot of minorities, you watching this? You know what I'm talking about. White people, it's like talk about everything. And you know, and me, I send them out. I'm like, this is good because you should talk about shit. It really does help. And then the other side is like, yo, motherfuckers be talking too much. Like it's, it's there, but then something happened, right? It's like, I've been to therapy, you know, I've done a couple shit, I've done some single shit. And just, I'm like, I'm not going to be the closed minded fuck who's not open to these things because there's definitely value in it. But the one thing I don't like is sometimes in these therapy sessions, people really, really, really, really, really, really, really go in and you start talking about your problem for an hour and then you actually magnify your problem and think it's fucking bigger than what it is. And so it's this really great line. And I don't know the answer, but I've seen so many people go to therapy and literally because they're talking about it so much, they're so focused on it that all of a sudden they magnify it. It's this big fucking thing versus the other side where it's like, shit happens and you bottle up, which isn't good, but there is some good into it because you learn to really fucking desensitize yourself to some things, which is good and bad. Which is good and bad, right? Like it's some things you shouldn't be desensitizing, you should be more empathetic. But other things you can blow off a lot easier. So I'm really in a gray area with how I feel.

I can't wait to respond to this.

Okay? I mean, that's it. It's just to open. It's like I'm not sold on one way, but I will put that out to everybody as like, fuck me. Like, we give way too much Power to stupid shit.

So I think what you are seeing is people's inability to contextualize their own problems. Because when you haven't had a lot of them, when you haven't had a lot of setbacks, the smallest one can be the biggest problem in the world. Which is why I say I bet on the guy or gal who is coming from less than the person who has had it made for most of their lives. One punch in the face derails that person's trajectory, where somebody who's coming from the bottom gets punched in the face a lot. And that's why I bet on the person who's coming from nothing versus the person who has a lot of advantages and has never cycled as an entrepreneur.

And I get it. I get it, right? Like, I think there's. There's levels, but it makes sense. I understand what you're saying.

It's kind of like the. I fear for the person who has, like, I come from a very religious background. I fear for the person who comes from the cozy churchy background, gets married in a stable family. And then one little thing like someone cheats and life is over, dude.

And I mean, that can cripple a.

Person who has not been punched in.

The face right there. And I don't know why this memory, I've never forgotten it, but it was just. It really, it impacted me because I still remember it almost 10 years later. And her name was Renee. And she. In class one day, she lost her shades. And I'll never forget this. And they're in little bougie shits, whatever the they were. I don't do brand shits. I don't know. But she loses her shades and you know, she's outside and she's bawling because she lost her shades.

Was Renee hot?

She was very hot.

Okay.

She doesn't shot. Yeah. She looks exactly how you think she would look. So the whole team acts like it always got 4.0.

Was she wearing yoga pants?

Oh my God, the whole deal. I mean, to the T. Like, you should probably wear them now. Like every. Everything you would think, right? And she cries about it. And I just like. It was the weirdest feeling for me because I literally like, stomach wise, I just like, I hated her in that moment. And I say that because I shouldn't have hated her in that moment. I realized that was not the. That's not how I would have trained myself to film a situation. Right. It. It should have been more of an empathetic of like, I'm sorry, that you feel like that's a big problem. How can I help you gain more perspective? But it really fucking made me furious that whatever is happening in your life is so fucking money that the shades were able to bring you to such a low.

Mm.

And it just was this. This moment of, like, wow, like, people need to talk. Like, if she had a friends outside of her own friends that had other shit, she would have lost the shades and be like, at least I'm not Susan, because she's fucked up right now. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Tai Lopez actually does a great job of talking about it. Of the whole, like, hanging out with the thirds where, you know, a third of the people you hang out with are same as you. A third of the people you could probably help, and a third of the people you're getting help from. Dude, I think that's so crucial to anti therapy. Like, ways like that perspective, that stack, I think helps people go through a lot of stuff.

We have lost the ability to, like, see where we are in, like, the global landscape or even the historic landscape of things. We're so much better off than we were 50 or 100 years ago. A thousand years ago. We are so much better off than so many other places in the world.

Dude, I agree with all of what you're saying there, for sure.

And this is why.

You and I are coming to the same conclusions from very different sets of experiences. This is where I get frustrated on the racial divide or the perceived racial divide. Cause I think, as I said at the top of when we started hanging out today, like, we're more equal than we've ever been. We have more economic opportunity than we ever have been, and it's continuing to get better. Why are we arguing about the little things and not celebrating the progress and doubling down on that?

I was good.

I hit a button.

I was with 80%. Yes, I was with 80%. But, like, hit Melanie. We're not doubling down yet because we haven't won yet. That's why we ain't doubling down. You. You just. Again, you. You nailed it. We are so much better than we ever are before. But shit, we. We just. We hit the halfway mark, boy, we still gotta go. But we just.

We just spent the last 20 minutes talking about. But it's how my peers are depressed, lonely and suicidal because we're soft.

Say we're playing a sport, right?

And okay, now we know about race because you win it every sport. Billy. That's black advantage, black prevalence.

That is actually true. So let's just Say we're playing a fucking sport, okay? And you know, for the last 20 years, I beat you every single game that would happen. And then, and then at the end of it, I'm like, you know what? Look how far we've gotten, though. Look how far we progressed. This is you. You know what? We were all, let's fucking double down. You'd be like, I've been losing every game. I ain't doubling down on this. You wouldn't look at me like I was crazy. That's what you just said to me. No, but it's like, it was like, yeah, you were winning. Of course the game wants, let's double down on the game.

Hold on.

The game is always nice.

Did the team next door say, hey, we don't have any white kids, so we're going to give you double the salary?

Oh, God. Now are we talking about this? Do you think. Well, do you think the women should be soccer team should be paid more?

Hold on. Ask the question again, please.

The women's soccer team, the U.S. you know the whole debate about should the women's soccer team be paid more?

I think they should be paid whatever the market decides they should be paid.

I agree with that.

And I have no idea what the ad revenue created by the women's soccer team is.

I don't either. I don't either. So.

And you know what? This is the first time that we've ever talked about the women's soccer team.

That's true. Yeah.

So my guess is they're all probably going to get raises because we're final. The market finally wants to see women's soccer for the first time ever.

Well, to me also too, it's, should.

Women, should the WNBA get a raise? No. No one watches the WNBA watch one game and see the stadium quarter filled.

If they're in the Women's World Cup. Wasn't that like every four years too? What's that like the World Cup? Is that what they played in? Is that it? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I love women, you know, I don't need any trolls. So I'll give you all raises.

Whatever.

Raise up. I. I raise up.

I will take all the trolls.

Yeah, take the trolls. I'll take them.

I love it. Yeah, I love it.

But raise up. All I ask is other women who really want them to get a raise. If you ain't never watched the first women's soccer games, fuck out of here.

I think we are all so quick to find an identity in problems. And you and I both know that that changes nothing. It comes from owning responsibility and deciding.

To be a big believer in accountability. And let's leave everyone with that.

And I have problems, you have problems. I have context for my problems. I don't have context for your problems and all that. This. And when we actually have real conversations about it, it contextualizes our problems a little bit better. And if we all just doubled down on what we were good at, we would a lot be happier and wealthier and richer for sure.

And I would say, like, the reason why you and I are able to have this conversation is male privilege.

I think. You know, I think.

My. One of my coaches, Jim, shout out to Jim. He introduced me, I'm sure it's been around for everybody. He introduced me to the whole hierarchy of happiness where it's like, needs, success, fulfillment up top. And I think one privilege that you and I both do have right now, we're embracing on is the fact that we're out of the needs category. Category. You have enough money where your needs are met, it's not going to be your stress that you're thinking about. Sure, there's financial pressures at times. We may do some, you know, but, like, we're good. And to me, I don't know, I know very few. I should rephrase or, you know, speaking aggregately, numbers of people who.

Are worried about helping others or understanding other perspectives when they're trying to get their own shit together. And that's where my mission really comes from, is I want everybody to have that fucking cash. You know what I mean? So we can start to think about these things. We can have this conversation because we're out of the needs category. Some would even call us successful. And I think you think about fulfillment a lot for yourself and as a whole and for your community and events you put on. And I think about that a lot, too. And so, you know, philosophically, I can't.

Help but wonder if they have to be correlated. Like, could you just. Do you need a certain amount to not have to have the needs met? Or can you just go all in on serving people?

And that's nailed it. So you look at like a religion, right? Like, that's. That's not about, like, having, you know, success. It's right to service and thing. And that's how I like a lot of things about religion. You look at other countries, right, and how, you know, they do it. But specifically in the US we have major issues with this. Usually US is always. People feel like they're always trying to survive, even though they live in a home with a warm bed and car. It's still considered, you know, survival for a lot, even though that may not be case.

Well, we covered a lot today, Billy. We did, we got, we got through.

A lot of black man versus white man 2.0.

You know, we discovered all of the black privilege. You have a better athlete than me, you have a bigger dick than me. You know you're going to get paid more as a speaker than me. I'm just this poor white privilege guy who's soft gonna be alone.

There's still definitely benefit. Like, like, look, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like, you know, there's not great benefits to being black. Right? Like, you know, obviously there's still, as everything I said still goes intact today. But like, it definitely helps that like when people are getting pressure to think about more diversifying their stuff from women to stages like.

You think about black entrepreneurs. There's not a ton of well known, well known ones doesn't mean there's not, but well known ones. So it is easier to compete in certain things because of that. But I would happily give up my personal competitive edge to make it where there's so many black people you don't know where to go. Does that make sense? You know what I mean? I would personally give that up in a second, but there are some niceties to it.

Well, we're getting soft as white men anyway, so I'm pretty, I, I, for.

The record, I love white people and I, and I love, you know, black people. I love brown people and I also hate them all black people.

There are good people and bad people. If we stop trying to stereotype them by their race and we just analyze the character of people, Isn't that what Martin Luther King Jr. Said?

Don't judge.

Judged by the character. Is that, is that the most privileged thing I could do?

Sorry, I don't see race. Okay, who's the whitest white boy that said something good about race too?

You end with the Trump quote.

Make America great.

I believe it was Donald J. Trump.

Who said, my brothers and sisters, Cheers, man. I appreciate you coming through today.

All right, man, that was good stuff. This is an awkward way to end.

We got to do it again.

Now.

This is just stereotypical. I can't even do a handshake.

I tell you, stereotypes are real for a reason. Everyone should embrace stereotypes.