How To Grow Your Business and Yourself w/ Aubrey Marcus

Even if this business that you have gets fucking smashed, you know, you'll learn from that, and you'll be better from that and stronger from that, and that experience will be something that'll catalyze and propel you forward. So whatever you're going through, like, the only way to lose is to suffer. It's really like, the only way to lose is not to lose your business. It's not to, like, lose. It's not any external metric. Like, the only way you lose is if you project yourself so far out of the present moment that you can't laugh, that you can't take that deep breath, that you can't smile, that you can't joke with your friends, that you can't, like, feel good through the process, because all there is is a.

Thanks, man. I needed to see you today. I appreciate that. Yeah, brother.

I think entrepreneurship is probably the greatest portal into personal development and this other conversation, and that's how most of us met each other. And.

You have seemingly continued to scale and grow and build, and from the outside, it often looks like just kept going and going and going and going from the inside. Has that been the case? And if so, how.

Yeah, I mean, I think we really.

Understood what we were and why we were doing it, you know, and that wasn't, like, immediate. You know, I had to make a hard pivot, like, right off the drop. So basically, I started on it began, and I was making hangover supplements. But people who are partying that hard don't really want to spend the money on. They're young, and they don't really care. And, you know, so we pivoted hard into our first, which is still our flagship product, which is Alpha Brain, which is a universal product for performance, for optimization that everybody could use. That wasn't just specifically related to partying too hard or some niche kind of idea. This was a universal expression. And with that came an understanding of, like, all right, what is on it here? For on it isn't like, the remedy to some, you know, destructive behavior. Onnit is something that can help people live a little bit better today, feel a little bit better today than they were yesterday. And, like, that identity of who we were and genuinely, authentically expressing that has been our superpower. It's been our secret sauce. And that's attracted people who are attracted to that vibe, you know, attracted to that feeling, that emotion, the truth of what that is. And, you know, on it as an organization, like, if you keep peeling away the layers in me or the people around you, you Just find more on it, you know, and that has been like this force that's attracted more and more people. I mean, even someone like jp, you know, who's been a huge ally for onit. This wasn't some big plotted out, strategic six figure deal where we're inking contracts and sorting some shit out like that. It was like we met, we got to feel the vibe, he dug the vibe and we dug his vibe. And so we started collaborating and working on stuff and then that introduced to a new audience. And you can duplicate this over athletes and all kinds of different influencers. And so I think we've grown. We have grown year over year over year and scaled and added employees and grown. But I think it's just been this natural gravitational pull and then the more gravity you have, the more gravitational pull you have and the more. So it just seems to be as we stay in alignment, you know, we have the biggest effect now where. And we've grown completely out of cash flow too. So I raised $110,000 to start on it. Pretty much wasted it all on my.

Party supplements and trying to promote those and unsuccessfully and was down to pretty much zero money when I launched Alpha Brain. And I wasn't like my family had money, but they didn't give me a fucking penny for this and weren't going to. My dad wanted me to be in finance. And so there was like nothing. There's no more resources there. But I got the manufacturer to give us terms net 30 on the alpha brain. So we had 30 days from when I received that first batch of Alpha Brain to pay him for the product, but I didn't have the money. But he didn't know that. He made a good bet though because, you know, we sold out in a day and a half, you know, of the first batch. And then I ordered and, you know, paid for that, ordered the second one, doubled it, doubled it, you know, and was able to, we were able to grow this and pull money out, you know, so that I could improve my lifestyle and we could pay investors and everybody who was involved. Well, there was really only two investors, my friend Bode Miller and another investment banking contact that I made some years back. Bodie put in 60, Howard put in 50. So it was $110,000. They made a good investment too.

But yeah, and then I think the period where we grew the least and had the most struggle is we hired.

I don't even want to give his title, but one of the top, like a really important executive committee member. And he wasn't of the same character and wasn't of the same ethos as on it, but he had a really unique and potent skill set. So he did. We did improve in some ways because of that skill set, but because he wasn't who we were, there created tension and friction and kind of Machiavellian, you know, sheltering of information and all of this shit that was in the company. And we had our slowest two years in that period, which was kind of sandwiched in the middle.

And that, I think, really looking back, it was due to that. And I was willing to tolerate that because of his special, unique set of information. But in hindsight, fuck that. There's a lot of ways that we could have got that information, but he was able to convince us that that information was vital and his skill set was irreplaceable. And in some ways, he wasn't lying. He was pretty unique in what he was able to do. But in a lot of ways, the biggest detriment that we faced was the mismatch of the identity of who we were, because he was repelling people as the good nature of ONIT was attracting people. And so that slowed down this gravitational pull where the bigger the planet, the bigger, the more gravity it has. And I think we're still in a state where we're still attracting more mass. And as that more mass attracts, we attract more mass. And as long as we can stay true to that message, I have confidence that that's gonna still continue to grow.

So rather than. Hey, Josh Bazoni, there's the genius I was just mentioning.

Grab a spot.

So rather than me try to lead, the best questions I can come up with, I just want to turn it over to the group. It's the purpose of a mastermind anyway, so we'll pivot over to Q and A. But one question that does come up is I've been to onit's headquarters a couple times, and first of all, full gym, full cafe, 190 employees, right? And I hear you say that it all came out of cash flow. I'm like, no way. How in the world.

No debt either. I mean, we had, like, a line. We have, like, a line of credit from the bank, but it's like, I.

Do not understand how that happened. Like, I mean, I'm just in the building going, how do you. How do you sell enough kettlebells and alpha brain to be able to pay for all of that? So I'm really curious about that. I'm also curious about the. Is the gym a separate profit Center, a separate business from the supplements. And how does it all.

So we also have Black Swan Yoga. I don't know if you guys are Austin guys, but we own that yoga franchise as well. And all of those are siloed, but all owned by the same equity and Cap Table structure. So anybody who's a part of Onit is also an owner of Onit, is also an owner of Black Swan. And we have. Because there hasn't been any other money taken into our equity structure is completely simple. All there is is shares. There's no preferred stock, and there's classes of shares or special rules or preferences. None of that, because we have never taken on money other than that first $110,000. And, you know, people can sell shares and things like that. And there's been things like that, of that nature that have been going on, but we've never raised money. So it's a very simple structure. And that simple. You know, Cap Table owns all of the properties, but we do track everything separately. So we make sure that the gym is separately and uniquely profitable on its own and that the yoga is as well. And the cafe has its own P L. And, you know, every aspect has its own P L, but it's all owned by the same, you know, the same structure.

So how do you get enough cash flow to pay for 190 people consistently?

I mean, so a lot of shit.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the, you know, foods and supplements in particular, it's a profitable business. You know, the margins are good. A lot of the work comes front loaded on the R and D and front loaded on some of that. But we were able to launch, you know, and get a lot of traction from the partnership that I made with Joe Rogan. And so, you know, we didn't raise money, but I had to give away a significant portion of the company to Joe Rogan at the start of. And that was, in a way, our capital raise. But instead of raising capital that we had to spend on advertising or marketing, we had that built in because he had this megalithic platform. But so I guess in a way, you know, it's just a different way to skin the cat, right? Like, I could have sold a huge portion of the company to investors who would have given me a bunch of money. And then I could have gotten smart like Josh and really learned how to market and acquire cold traffic and do those things in a really technically savvy way.

And grown that way, but instead gave that equity to Rogan, who had an audience and had this kind of on it mentality already and was able to just express it to his people. And that gave us that initial momentum and that momentum and the profitability of that momentum, we were able to parlay into more profitability and more profitability. Well, and I think we also benefited from, and we're still benefiting from, but a time where podcasts were undervalued, like podcasts, basically TV ads and you know, even Internet ads to a certain degree have had a pretty good amount of arbitrage. There's still a lot of opportunity in Face was particularly. There was a lot of opportunity in some of the social media platforms, but the big media platforms had been arbitraged and like where the value was, it was really tough and tight. But in the early stages of podcast, which was still this past seven years, it was still kind of early on the advertising side, like we were able to ride that wave where we're seeing huge ROI.

From not only Joe's podcast, but all kinds of podcasts as well. So we had that kind of macro thing in our favor and yeah, that's really allowed us to grow. But it was really that initial rogue in momentum that gave us the profitability to start expanding, expanding, expanding, expanding, and then finding other highly ROI positive profit centers, you know, where we could continue to keep the train rolling. Groot.

Kevin.

Hey, Aubrey, you're just the perfect person for me to ask this question, especially.

When you're mentioning, oh, so much pressure.

Well, especially because you mentioned 190 employees. So I've experienced in our company going from 0 to 17 that the 0 to 5, the 5 to 10. We've been different in how we've been involved in the business and the scale of it. So I'm really curious to hear about from your side, what it was like to go from like maybe in the beginning to 20 to 50 and 50 to 100 plus specifically about your journey. You know, are you still in the day to day? Do you rely on your advisors? Like, what have those relationships been like in order to get to the point where you have one night?

Well, I think, you know, initially, initially, no one is really gonna take a big bet on you, you know, to such a, such a strong degree. So the company's unproven. So it was basically like I found homies who were just willing to help who I could just trust. Like, hey, we have shit going on. Especially when like alpha brain hit and we had real sales. You know, it was like, hey, can you help with this? Hey, can you help create the API with the usps? So we can get these things automated, so we're not handwriting these labels. Hey, can you. And I had some experience in that because I was running a marketing company, but it was really like just kind of trying to find people who could plug the holes to kind of manage the growth that we were in. But really, you know, let me just double check to make sure. But yeah, like, all of the first five employees are no longer with Onnit. And Onnit has a very low turnover rate. You know, like, we don't. It's not like people are coming through a lot. But they were generalists because I needed generalists. We had a small nucleus, and I needed people who are willing and able to do a lot of things. And I'm able and willing to do a lot of things as well. So as we've grown, we can hire more specific people and then have the access to greater and greater experts who can really not only hold down certain areas, but advance them. So it was really a journey of friends who were generalists and then to slowly more and more specialists. But I think a really key turning point was the hire of my coo, who is a really beautiful complement to me.

He ran hotels, actually, before he was with onit. And hotels have many different departments, many different structures. They have their food and beverage, they have their overnight, they have their brand standards. They have all of these things. So it wasn't supplements, but he understood how to run a multifaceted organization. And that took a lot of that load off of me. And so now I'm in a position where I have really talented people in all of the different departments. And so I keep the bumpers on everything. I check up on everything. But I get to apply myself in my specialty and what I'm. What only I can do. And I think ultimately that's where we all want to be. We want to be doing the thing that only we can do. And if somebody else can do what we can do, ultimately you want to get somebody else to do that. You want to delegate that. And maybe they can't do it at a hundred percent of what you like. I could customer. I could answer every customer service email, probably a little bit better than our customer service team, you know, but that's not a good use of my time. They can get it pretty close, and we can make sure that they get it as close as possible. So I'm willing to give that up, except when something really needs to escalate, and then I'm always available for that, even at that level, and then focus on the things that really where my magic can be, and that's in outreach and speaking and getting in front of the camera and doing the podcasts and writing that book, which was deeply related to the human optimization movement. And then product development. I haven't missed a product development meeting since the beginning. You know, like everything that's created, packaged, labeled, you know, I'm deeply embedded in that process. And then all of our. And then everything else, we have a lot of other people who can support, but I'm really now in a position where I can focus largely on the things that are induplicable about what I can offer.

So, yeah, it's been, you know, this kind of steady journey where you just have to divide yourself.

Everywhere first and then eventually work yourself into a position where you're doing the things that only you can do. And that's. I'm very close to that position now.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So when you said, when you started on it, you had a very different set of products.

So when you started it, did you feel like you had a very clear vision?

No. Okay.

No, I was. I was just desperate to make something happen. You know, like everything I was trying, I was. I had a marketing company, but I knew I didn't want to, like, scale this marketing company to something big because I watched all my best ideas and all these things that I was doing get, you know.

Destroyed by men. Not utilized, not implemented, not. It was really deeply unsatisfying because ultimately you had no control over what. You just had to follow the directives of a different executive team and even your best inspiration, whatever it was, you had no control over whether you could actually put that out or not, you know, so it was an unsatisfying role to be in. And I knew I wanted to start a company and do something and.

You know, so creating those kind of hangover oriented supplements, I was like, I think I can do this, and I think there's a need. Nobody's making supplements to do this. So it was more in that kind of pure entrepreneurial concept, like, God, I just got to find a company that I can run and make that'll do something. But it wasn't until.

The idea for Alpha Brain, which was an idea that was kind of in conjunction with Joe Rogan, who's just a friend. And that actually coincided with the plant medicine journey I was doing down in Peru, where I really saw a vision for what I was doing and why I was doing it. And that's when really Onnit became Onnit. Before that, it was just an entrepreneurial idea to get me out of the trap of not, you know, feeling like I had control and the ability to create something of value, you know what I mean? So Onnit didn't become Onnit until that kind of secondary moment, until that pivot, you know, the pivot coincide into Alpha Brain where I cut the other product lines. It was just two products, but I cut the other products. That was when Onnit became onit and it was still called Onnit. It was still called onit.

What is most of your marketing budget.

Going through right now? Like podcast advertising, Facebook ads, display ads, influencers.

Not that much into influencers. We have some.

But that we, that we pay on like a monthly retainer. But most of it goes into Facebook ads. You know, that's been the primary thing. And then podcast, as you mentioned, and then we'll experiment with other things, you know, experiment with YouTube and experiment with Instagram and experiment with. We've tried, you know, other media partners, the Chive we've worked with total frat move. We work with like different media partners. And there's been, you know, mixed success with all those different guys and in different ways that we've explored it, but consistently, you know, it's been really the Facebook ads search, you know, search ads to Google.

But that's where the majority of our budget's gone. And then podcast has been also a consistent one. But that one's.

Yeah, that one just kind of ebbs and flows because now in the podcast space, like that opportunity before things got kind of armed out and things got really equivalent, you know, there was a ton of opportunity. So but now it's a lot tighter, you know, like you really have to have a compelling, compelling offer, compelling campaign for a lot of the big podcasts to really get your money back and get the roi. It wasn't like the early days, so you have to be discretionary. And really it's kind of like scouting for a, a new, your baseball team or something like that. Like you identify a podcast that's early. And our biggest ROI wins are when we see like this person has a great message and a cool audience, like let's work with them now, you know, and continue with them. And that's been kind of the biggest success as that's been concerned.

When you spoke about just being and being present and moment. As an entrepreneur, I've always, and as I've grown up seeing that the best things only happen in those moments. And like being here in this room, all the self doubt comes up and emotions come. And that all made a lot of sense to me. But, like, the questioning always comes, like, when I'm here surrounded by a bunch of men and I'm here in the middle of the.

I asked myself, like, he was crying.

Like, 20 minutes ago.

So is it like, I'm figuring out, like, I know for myself my strength is just trying to find that presence and being. And I sometimes think, you know, you need to be in a rush and you need to, you know, get to a certain place somewhere or do it a certain way. But I've only seen the best things happen. And my business only grows and growing. Not in a sense where it's a numbers game, but growing around me, growing myself, my team, the people and the energy around me. And so what would be your advice there? You know, when we're in those moments where we feel like we know, I know what I need to do and I'm going to continue being. And in those moments, how do you navigate through deciding.

To rush or to believe this? I feel like all I experienced at 1. Sometimes I tend to listen to those who have experienced or grown a business. And how do you deal with the questions, how to stay in the present and the being?

I mean, it's a very. I appreciate your question because it's, I think, at the core of some challenges. And this is not, you know, like, as Ryan was saying, like, entrepreneurship is a way to learn about the self and ultimately a way to grow not only your business, but grow your faith in yourself and apply the pressure to you to see, really, you don't really know yourself unless you test yourself. So what you're saying can apply to anything, apply to your relationship. You can have a relationship where your parents love them and your friends love them, but you're like, fuck, I don't know if this is the one. But you can kind of uphold societal standards and be like, all right, I'm going to do what everybody wants me to do. But really, you know, that something isn't quite right. Or maybe it's the opposite, or people don't want to, you know, so there's so many ways where these outside influences will try to influence you. And I think Robert Greene, in his book Mastery, calls those counter forces. So those are things that are actually working against the truth that you know. And I think part of the entrepreneurial journey is trusting your own self and your own vision and who you are and not being. Not doing it in an arrogant way where you won't listen or you get emotional or you have to, like. But you listen. You're able to listen and say, that's an interesting idea. Thank you for the idea. But you're not compelled or you don't feel like you need to respond to anybody because you trust yourself. And that'll come from fucking up, you know, trying what somebody else says. And all right, well, that shit didn't work. Oh, and I tried what I really believe, and that thing really worked well. And over time, like, a child learns language. Like, how does a child learn language? Well, they keep practicing and trying and hearing and trying things out. Or humor. How do you learn to be humorous? Well, you try things and you see what's funny, and you keep going. And I think giving yourself the space to recognize that this is a journey that you're on. And as you become more clear and more experienced in your journey, you'll get better and better at finding the balance between receiving ideas and receiving help and the times when you know what's right, and the times where maybe you're stubborn and have to admit, like, whoa, I was wrong. I was really wrong there. I don't know what I was thinking, you know, so there'll be this kind of balance. And what I've really found is, you know, there's an old, old quote from Hermes, Trismegistus, as above, so below, as within, so without, as your internal character, fortitude, experience, you know, capabilities, grows trust and faith in yourself and understanding of everything. And as you become better inside, everything outside changes more easily, and the growth comes more easily. So, you know, in those moments, just recognize that this is your own personal journey, and entrepreneurship is the way that you're getting to learn this and the way that you're able to access the pressure and mistakes and the risk and the things that will actually teach you what you need to know about yourself. And so just stay open to the learnings. And it sounds like you've already learned a lot. It sounds like now it's just about, how many more times am I not going to listen to myself? How many more times is it going to have to take and have compassion for yourself? Maybe it takes a lot more times. Maybe it does. That's okay. You know, everybody learns at their own pace and their own speed, you know, and you're learning now. Maybe it'll take you some more times, but eventually you'll. You'll learn. And that's the. That's the beauty of this. That's the goal.

Roxelle, you mentioned being in a room of mostly men, and we're Actually worse at this than you are.

Well, it's actually probably what I need to learn because I hated men for a long time.

So.

This idea, I mean, can you.

I could not count. If I lived for another thousand years, I could not count the number of times people ask me for the formula.

Like the perfect way, and I want to punch them in the face. It's like they're looking for the thing that they can. Looking for the step by step manual. Right. And the bigger you get as an entrepreneur, like, that need for a step by step thing can sometimes just get louder, especially when you're a man. Because we think like, this is the goal and this is how we're gonna get there. The difference with us is when we get into a room like this, we hear how somebody else got this number to this level. We now feel that imposter syndrome or that the inner voice comes up even more. And we can only do one thing at a time because we're men. So we think about giving up the thing that's working working to go do this new thing. So we're worse at it than you probably are. And I would say you're probably closer than most, than most entrepreneurs, most men, at being in tune to what you know is right for you. Because I have this phrase I like right now, which is unique value. Unique value is valuable because it's unique. So trying to model exactly what anybody else is doing usually screws it up. It's why we have a really hard time duplicating what somebody else has done, because they're bringing something, they've scaled something that is unique to them. And.

The way that I have been able to catch that and shift it is, am I going into my head or not? If I'm going into my head, I'm going, well, we could do this.

I'm probably still gonna do it because I'm a stubborn man. But I learned real quick that it came from something that I was intellectualizing rather than something that I felt like was unique to me. And so I know this just from doing podcast episodes where I think what would get a lot of downloads, I'm immediately attached to the number and I go, you know what would get a lot of downloads if I did this thing? And then I do the headiest podcast on a topic where all I get is more people who want more heady stuff. And the minute I go, I'm just gonna do whatever I want. And I do one where I, like, in my head, I'm like, this is a bad idea. But it's like it's coming from a place that feels unique to me. Everybody that I want to do business with shows up, but I just get out of the way. So the way that I measure that is in my head, or not. Because whatever you do, you're gonna end up scaling that piece. And I don't like being in my head because I attract other heady people who are just completely disconnected from who they are. And the more you stay there, the more you attract people who resonate with that.

You'll find the joy is there, too, when you're doing it in a way that is your authentic expression, you know, like, everybody here could be. The only thing that everybody here can be the absolute best in the world at is being himself.

Everything else can be someone is better than them, you know, but being you, no, no, you got that? And, like, there's a joy in the expression of your. As you said, your uniqueness, you know, and, like, what you uniquely bring, it doesn't mean you can't learn and adapt and add things. But knowing, like, knowing your song and trusting your song and not trying to sing someone else's song and, you know, do a cover of the person next to you's, you know, music, like singing your own unique song is always going to bring the most joy and typically the most success. So we're basically happy for you. The movie. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Thank you.

Can you talk about enjoying the journey more? Because I wish I would have, you know, sold hundreds of millions of dollars of products, and the whole way out, I just beat myself up, compared myself to other people.

I didn't really enjoy the process.

I look back, I'm like, man, I wasted years of self doubt and. And internal turmoil and pain that I could have just avoided with a different mindset. So.

Yeah, I mean, I can look back and see the same thing in so many ways. And, like.

Understanding that there is only the process, like, there is never this mythical place, like everything is. Is just a place on the infinite mountain that you're climbing, right?

And that all these things that you'll catalyze as more information and more knowledge in a better way and more understanding.

It always works out like we're literally batting a thousand. Everything that's ever happened, we've gotten better from and learned from. Even all the failures, you talk to Mossad, but they don't regret the failures. I don't regret all the bad ideas I had and different things that I've tried that didn't work. And, you know, like, the. You know, all the things that seemed catastrophic, that weren't catastrophic, that forced me to look at the deficiencies that I had and all of this. There's like a way to.

Feel what you feel, what you need to feel, but also not have to react in the ways that are so detrimental and so self destructive. You know, like extrapolating, you know, feeling the fear that you're going to lose something in your business, something's not going to work, and just sitting with that rather than creating these crazy hyperbolic scenarios, these elaborate prisons that you can suffer in for long enough. You know, I think there's a more Wu Wei path where you're just holding. And that's a daoist concept of, you know, the easiest effort. And there's that thing that's available, but it requires just some face, faith. And not faith in a higher power, but just faith in yourself. Faith that whatever you go through, you'll learn from. And even if this business that you have gets fucking smashed, you know, you'll learn from that and you'll be better from that and stronger from that. And that experience will be something that'll catalyze and propel you forward. So whatever you're going through, like, the only way to lose is to suffer. It's really like the only way to lose. It's not to lose your business, it's not to like lose. It's not any external metric. Like, the only way you lose is if you project yourself so far out of the present moment that you can't laugh, that you can't take that deep breath, that you can't smile, that you can't joke with your friends, that you can't like feel good through the process. Because all there is is a process, you know, that's all there fucking is. It's just one long process of learning. And you know, you look at. I read some of the top deathbed regrets from this author, Bronnie Ware, and one of the top deathbed regrets was I wish I would have let myself be happier.

I wish I would have let myself be happier. Like, almost like putting yourself in the pain was like a badge of honor or something that you feel like you needed to do. But you could replace that with like a faith that, yeah, you're gonna be alright one way or another. Like, worst case, all of us have a friend that will give us a couch. We're gonna be alright. We're all gonna be all right. And then we'll learn from that. And then we'll be able to tell that story of the catastrophic moment where you lost everything in your business and somebody else will be inspired by that, and you'll have the information there, and you'll be the person of character, you know, smoking that meerschaum pipe and looking out at the sea and talking about the time where all the waves came and crashed and your boat got smashed on the rocks and you're puffing away, and you'll be that person. That's fucking cool, too, you know, so. But yeah, man. I mean, that's the truth. And we can still get caught up in that now. And I'm sure me and you still do, even though we know that we have that wisdom, there'll still be those moments. But as time goes on, we release those more and more with more and more faith and more and more faith in the process and our experiential learning journey.

Question for the two of you. Do you still do things you don't enjoy after having that realization?

Yeah.

I think I should delegate that.

I still do. Just. Do you force yourself to do things that you don't like doing?

If they're my unique ability now? Yeah, if they're my unique ability, I think I do.

That. Answer your question.

I don't know what you would consider your unique ability. So I guess my context that I'm taking it from is I notice I catch myself, even though I have that idea of enjoying the journey more, I catch myself forcing myself to do things that I don't like because I think they're important for some reason. And I've actually given. Just recently started playing this idea of, well, what if I just didn't have to promote that thing? Or what if I just didn't have to send that email or make that podcast? And then I find that my batteries charge and now I can do it with a lot more ease and it becomes enjoyable.

I think it's a balance. There's some of that that you can do, but I think there's some times where the battle. The battle is. Is there, and there's the lines are. You know, the armies are pitched, and maybe it's the arm. The battle is your growth or your opportunity or whatever's going on, but. And you as a leader, have to show up to the front lines, and you may not want to that day. You know, like, that may not be what your preference would be, but knowing who you are, like, Alexander the Great didn't take a day off where he's like, nah, fuck it, I'm not gonna jump on Bucephalus today. And I'm not gonna wear my double plumed helmet. And I'm not gonna be the first person who receives the volley of arrows on my armor. I'll just let my army do it, you know, like, there were some days I'm sure he didn't want to fucking fight. He loved fighting, loved conquest. Like, overall, generally, he loved what he was doing. But there's gonna be times where it's just your place and your role to step up there and do it. And I think that's. And then there's gonna be other things that you like, really don't need to do. You know, I don't really fucking need to do that. I don't need to do this tiny little interview. I don't need to do this thing. I don't need to do that. That's unnecessary. And what's your why behind it? But certainly, you know, so when there are those times where you have to show up and you have to be at the front of the army, especially, like, let's say some kind of crisis happens, some kind of thing happens, like, you may not. You may be tired, you may not want to do that, but you as the leader and as an entrepreneur, like, you have to be on the front lines and you have to be there so that all your people who might be scared and might be worried and might need you, like, they know, they know that you're going to show up. And I think there will always be that kind of balance. But I think getting. Changing your perspective to like, I have to do this instead of I get to do this. That's an important mental shift. So no matter what it is, we have the choice to say, oh, I get to do this. I get to show up on the front lines. I get to be at the head and at the helm of this thing. And I think that's an important mental shift. But there will be times, and I think that's important, especially as you scale to a bigger organization where you are leading people emotionally as well. Remember, I've told this story before, but to go stick with the Alexander the Great.

Story, there was a time where he was leading his men on a campaign in India. And it was hot and it was sweaty and they were fighting elephants and it was fucking a really brutal, rugged campaign as they pushed their army into India. And his men finally came to him and they were like, fuck this, man. I'm gonna go home. Like, this sucks. Like, we're done. We're done fighting. So it was like a revolt, it was a rebellion against him. And that was what was brewing. And he goes out in front of his men and all his generals and he strips off his armor in front of all of them, and he looks at everybody and his body is just covered with scars, scars everywhere. Because he was always at the front of his army riding his horse, double plumed helmet. So nobody had any confusion who the head of this army was. His giant rearing stallion, always. So he always got hit and always took wounds. He stands before his army and goes, bring forth a man who has bled more than me and we will go home.

Everybody looks around and looks at his scarred body and goes, okay.

We go on. And I think there is that moment for entrepreneurs, and that moment could be for me. It's. I don't let other people terminate people. For me, if I've had any contact with a person, I'm the one in there who's doing the terminations. Do I like fucking terminating people? No, I fucking hate terminating people. But I know that I will do it in the best way possible and that the company will know that. I'm not delegating that because it sucks firing people. I'm not delegating that thing to somebody else who has to take the emotional brunt of that issue. But then I'm going to step up and I'm going to do it. And if there's a challenge that comes with the company or something else, is there, Like, I'm there. So. And I think that's important as a leader, that your people know that if they need you, there's no hesitation. It's not like, oh, where's Aubrey? Oh, he's on vacation. And we got to deal with this shit and I got to fire all these people. We got to handle these. No, no, no, I'm back. Here I am like, what do we got to do? And I think, you know, that that plays out in a lot of different ways, from both the. The sweat to also showing up when you need to. But then, you know, yeah, as you said, having the discretion and knowing I really don't need to do this, you know, like, this isn't crucial.

For me, the biggest challenge I've had in enjoying the journey is putting the pressure on myself, on the things that I know I don't want to do that I think are my responsibility. And when I traced them down, it kind of came back to the idea of not I have to do this because I didn't feel like I was enough.

And on the other side of that realization is I now give myself different permission to relax. The things that always put on my shoulders. I took it as like a badge of honor to be burnt out, overwhelmed, and not ask for help. And the enjoyment of the journey changed when it was giving myself personal, like, my to do list. I now do the things like they. It's almost like they have their own time. And it doesn't mean you neglect responsibilities. It just means that they kind of. The things that are really important kind of naturally come out of that place when you're really filled up.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think that's. That should be the general strategy, with the caveat being that sometimes you just gotta fucking show up, no matter what. Doesn't matter. You know, and there's. And there'll be those moments like when I launched my book, like, fucking grueling week, like there was. But that was how you launch a book. That's how you get to the New York Times bestseller list, is you fucking go. And every. Every opportunity you have, you stack them and you just go. And I was speaking three, four, five times a day, giving interviews, doing podcasts, being on social, doing lives, doing all of the things. And, you know, and it was a. It was a run, and it was a run, and that run required recovery afterwards. But there was like, that was what. And that was what I. And again, it was what I got to do. But sometimes it didn't feel like that. Sometimes it was like, I just want to. Like, I do not want to get out of my hotel room right now, you know, so there will be that kind of mix where you can really understand what's important, make sure that you're doing the right things. But sometimes you'll have an initiative, a campaign that you need to win or something that you need to do, or it'll be some crisis where you got to show up or some way that you can serve. Really, this is about serving your company like a way that you can serve your organization, your customers, your people in a way that is really meaningful.

What else?

I was gonna ask something wasn't necessarily about entrepreneurialism, so it's going back to the first bit, but speaking to imposter syndrome, I suffer pretty. Pretty bad with it.

It's really difficult.

I'm trying to become aware of working some issues. And so I just want to know, like, any advice on how to let go so you can start working on that, start believing and trusting yourself that that worth is there, you know, and that it's because I do believe in what I'm doing. I do believe in the change and the effect that I have. But for some reason I struggle with being worthy of that. Like why, you know, why am I, you know, why me? When why not someone else maybe more capable or somebody else smarter or you know, to what, to whatever, anybody, to society, torture myself too. So anything.

That you, you know, any couple steps or maybe exercise or thought process or anything, you know, it's funny because. So I was up really late last night, up until 2:30 in the morning. I just had a huge coaching weekend out in Los Angeles. It went really, really well. We got all the feedback and everybody was thrilled and. But I was like wondering why I didn't feel fully satisfied and why I couldn't own the positive feelings that everybody was expressing to me. Like what was it? And some part of me recognized that there was a mixed motivation that I had in the weekend. Like there was some desire to impress certain people. There was a desire to, you know, be profitable, There was a desire to do these other things. And me understanding who I am, like I recognize that the thing that I hold most precious about myself is my desire to be of service.

And I think so I had this kind of almost imposter feeling where I'm talking about being of service. That's really a lot of what I was talking about. How do you become fit for service? You know, that's a mastermind that I'm starting on January 1st. Fit for service. But as I was expressing it, I was also mixing my motivation for service with self centered goals, but not being really aware of those, but it was like convoluting my own internal landscape. Nobody else would have noticed that, but I wasn't feeling.

Really in truth with myself because I wasn't recognizing and maybe because there's some shame around the fact that I'm talking about service, but I'm still somewhat being self centered. And so when I removed that and recognized like, oh yeah, when I was doing that live podcast and I looked after that person in the crowd and I saw them on their phone and it made me feel bad because I was really trying to impress them with what I was saying.

Yeah, that's not what I should be doing. I'm doing a fucking podcast for the good of the whole room, you know, so all of these little things that made me feel like I wasn't authentically expressing for exactly the right reason. And so I think the biggest safe haven for that and for your truth and faith in yourself is to surrender yourself to the good of all. Surrender yourself to service, surrender yourself to that idea.

And there's just this incredible liberation and excitement that comes from that. Because then it's like I always cry when I watch the heroic epic movies. Always every time I've watched 300, like fucking 12 times, I cry every time I could watch Brave Art, there would be like my 20th. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna cry. Interstellar. Doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be like epic battle. Like when someone is willing to, to sacrifice their own well being for the greater good and truly like truly be willing to submit to service. It's the most inspiring thing I can see and it's the most inspiring thing about myself. And so I can do a weekend like this, but have mixed motivations and nobody will really know. But I'll know. But when I really do it, like I did with that Burning man speech, right, like really just purely am of service and like just surrendering myself to the, to the possibility that this could help somebody, you know, in some way. Whether that's through products, whether that's through information, or whether that's through that. When I surrender to that and surrender my own self centered outcome, you know, then all of that other worry kind of evaporates because who else can do that? And what does it matter if someone else. This is your thing, this is your mission, this is your why. This is your surrender. This is you. This is your thing. It's not about this external outcome that somebody can maybe do better than you. Nobody can do this better than you. Nobody can serve better than you at what you're serving for.

So I think it's really reorienting from these external, validating self centered ideas to this idea like who am I serving here? My customers, my people, my audience, my family, myself, like, and just fucking send it for them, you know, and just who cares about the rest? Who cares if I take some arrows? Who cares if whatever. Like I'm just gonna give it, give it my best and let the universe sort the rest.

Brian?

Yeah.

I have two questions. One.

I've been kind of wondering if some sort of psychedelic might be part of the next part of my spiritual journey. So I'm curious, kind of.

Where you would recommend a person to kind of.

Have your entry point into that.

And then two, I'm wondering how do you actually take cold showers in Texas in the summer?

So those are my two. That's a problem. That's a legit problem. Yeah.

There'S no solution to your second question.

I have a. Except for I have like a chest freezer that I laid on its side and it Has a little lid that I pop open in the chest freezer with Epsom salt. Stays really cold. So I can do cold immersion in the summer. But showers, yeah, you're fucked. It's gonna be like luke cold. Is that even a word? Should be luke cold. Psychedelics, they are a very powerful tool. And I think if you look at the research being done by Maps and being done by Heffter.

Two of the medicines I think really emerge from the clinical research and from a scientific perspective, and that's MDMA and psilocybin. And I think following the protocols that are put out and publicly available by these nonprofit organizations that are doing phase two clinical research on depression, anxiety, trauma, all of these different things, you can actually track down some of those protocols. And unfortunately, those practices are still illegal, and it's hard to get enrolled in the trials. But you can find practitioners and people who are able to hold that kind of space and follow that similar protocol. I mean, Maps even has a fucking playlist that you can just get off their website, you know, for. And they have the milligram dosage between 80 and 120 milligrams. And you can follow the protocol or have someone help lead you through the protocol. And I think that's one option to do it. And same with psilocybin. Heffter has those protocols and have a guide that kind of guides you through this process. But do I have a place that I can recommend that you go do that? No. So other options are the traditional plant medicines, and there are some, again, opportunities to do the traditional plant medicines in different places. Costa Rica has two organizations that are offering ayahuasca that are pretty. Supposedly pretty good. I haven't been. I know Blue Morpho in Peru offers ayahuasca, and they're very good. I've been there. Spirit quest. Unfortunately, Don Howard, who's been my key, like, shaman through this process, he's retiring now, so that place is in flux. But so there's the traditional plant medicine side, and then there's the finding people who are willing to administer and kind of follow the process protocol that's been proven and clinically and rigorously tested for benefit.

Yep.

Anything else.

Going once.

Here, thinking, God, you ask this question right now, they want to do it, but you should do it. Who is it? Who is it?

I'll go then.

All right.

What do you think happens when you die?

I don't. I don't. It's not a think for me.

I believe. I know because I believe. I've felt the Release of the physical container. So I don't. It's not like I, oh, I wonder. It's like I've been there, I've felt that. And that's a crazy thing to say, right? Like, whoa, that's fucking crazy. I acknowledge that. And I don't. Again, I don't expect anybody to, to just take my word for it. But.

When we pass in my understanding and experience of that, we retain our awareness and our identity of who and what we are. But it's free of all of the limitations of the ego and the mind that, you know, required all of these justifications and has built itself on edifices and of untruth. And so we release into our highest version, highest expression of ourself, free from all of the judgments and limitations and rationalizations and understandings that we have. So it's a real awakening, eye opening experience. And I think as we retain that, you know, that identity of self, I also understand that there's a second death that you might want to call it, which is. So the first one is the release of the body, but retaining that kind of understanding and the identity of who we are. And.

Also the opportunity for reincarnation and also the opportunity to take another body in another time. I don't know exactly how that works, of course, because that's pretty technical at that point. But I felt the release into just the spiritual body. And then I've also at that point where I've released into that and I've done this on plants and not on plants, where I've been able to release into that through meditation and different other things. But.

There'S a second death. And that death would be the pouring of our cup of water into the ocean entirely, which is when the whole universe itself collapses, you know, as it expands and contracts. I've seen it as a heartbeat. Obviously we don't have the, the data on that because we're still in an expansion place and all things that happened before the Big Bang are erased. But I hypothesize that there's an expansion and a contraction back to that single source of infinite energy. And as that happens universally with all matter, it also happens with all spirit. And at that point we lose our identity and become merged one and refreshed as that one source. And so we are gone. We are truly, fully, completely gone. And we are just one with God. So we lose our identity and then that will fracture into the other infinite expressions and identifications that we all are, or that other life forms will all be. So I really look at it as, you know, kind of two stages. The first is the release of the body and our idea identity as this person. But a retaining of information and a certain sense of personality and a certain understanding of who and what we are. And then there's the second release into the unicity.

And again, don't take my word for it.

So while we're going down this rabbit hole, I. The expansion and contraction. I've thought of that as breathing.

Yep.

Expansion, contraction. Expansion, contraction.

What in nature is in a cycle, right? Like, it would only make sense that that's the cycle.

Do you know in.

In the Old Testament what God says? His name is.

I am, and in the Hebrew that's Yahweh, which is the sound of breathing in their translation.

Travis, I think there was something you wanted to ask. And I'm gonna give you the last word related.

But I find it easier to, I.

Guess, get more stuff done.

Fries and business. When I feel like I have something to prove to the world. And then when I feel like I'm enough and I've already made it, I have less of a kick in the butt and I'm less inspired. Like, just let that go. It's not that urgent. How do I get the effects of the grinding behavior while having the happiness.

Of feeling like I'm enough?

Well, you're using ego as motivation. And it is. It is motivating. It's motivating as fuck. Like, there's no doubt about it, but it's. It's. It comes at a cost. It's like burning coal inside your house. Like, you have to breathe the exhaust and the. The kind of effects, the catabolic. Like. Like the. The challenging, destructive effects of using ego as motivation. Because there's no doubt that it is, you know, and that will get you to do things that are energetic and above and beyond what you might normally be willing to do. And then there's the contentment of the ego, which may mean that, no, I'm fine just kind of lounging around and I don't really need to do anything because I have nothing to prove and blah, blah, blah.

But there's another way. There's another energy system that you can activate. And that energy system is love for all humanity and the desire to be of service. Right? Like, if you look at any of those heroic movies that I'm talking about, it wasn't William Wallace didn't want to become William Wallace so he could fucking be. Be something for his ego, you know, it wasn't like, I want to do this so I can be great. You know, I was like, I need to do this to free Scotland because I love Scotland. You know, like I need to do these things because I love people. I love the people I'm serving. I love my family. I love my ability to offer resources and information and capability to a greater, to the greater good. And that love is a much cleaner fuel. That's like having like a, like a sun as your energy source rather than having to burn things constantly, which will give you motivation, but it's always temporary and it's always leaving you with this kind of caustic reaction as a mess to clean up. And I think so finding and awakening that love and compassion, you know, for those around you will then replace that energy source and actually give you much more energy and an inexhaustible amount of that energy. When you're called to service in that way, there'll be nothing that will stop you. And you'll be able to do everything that your ego got you to do and more because you won't have to bear the brunt and the unhappiness and the dissatisfaction and the dark side of using the ego as motivation. So feel free to dip into the ego still. I'm not saying like nobody used the ego as motivation. Like sure, go for it, but know that it comes with a cost. And then work to build up that love powered, service oriented side of yourself and that will ultimately give you the fuel. Appreciate it.

Yeah, I've felt that ego is only after to serve itself and it can, and it's really good at serving itself. And that's one way to accomplish. But the first time I think we ever sat down together, we were talking about how we're biologically wired to serve one another. We're wired to be in a tribe and it's why we are willing to give our lives for each other.

In certain instances. And that motivation is, I think, way more powerful than I know. Because once serving yourself has diminishing returns because it can only get so much and at the same time there's never enough. But service to other people goes really deep into.

What is inside us and what's possible because we're literally biologically wired to do that. And today we're so disconnected and so doing our own thing and so behind screams that we are.

Only thinking about ourselves and comparing ourselves to other people. But when it's truly.

A deep need to bring something to the world or serve someone else, it's a completely different energy source, as you call it.

Yeah. And that's really just. How do you love people more? That's the question you need to ask. How do you love people more? How do you love your customers more? How do you love your employees more? How do you love your family more? How do you love yourself more? You know, like those are the questions that all of us can ask because when we feel that love.

I'll bet on that person any day.

Aubrey, any final words? I don't like open ended questions, but I feel led on this one.

No, just, you know, grateful to be able to share with all you guys. Grateful for your attention and, you know, hopefully I think you're in good hands here with Ryan and if I can be of service in any way, let me know. Obviously, I'm launching my own Mastermind as well. Coming up. I don't know what the.

Rate limit on Masterminds is, but for you guys, but we'd always, you know, welcome the application. And for those of you interested in following me along my journey, you're welcome to take a look at that. And those of you in the audience who are listening as well, like, check that out. That's called the Fit for Service. Mastermind launches January 1st.

All my information is on my podcast and I'm always really vulnerable, putting out everything that I learn on my newsletter, which isn't marketing, it's more letting you know what guest is on the podcast and what challenges I faced this week. And so you can sign up for that. That's all@AubreyMarcus.com and that's pretty much it. Just happy to have been here with you guys and felt your presence and, you know, let me know.

I think it's really easy as an entrepreneur to forget the impact you're having in the world. So I just want to publicly, again, thank you for.

The one. I was incredibly thankful for you beforehand and inspired by you beforehand. But now I have literally felt a personal transformation as a result of the paintball. That kind of shot at me from one little insight. And.

I've shared that story publicly one time and I've gotten more messages from other people saying, I thought I was the only one who wrestled with this idea. I wasn't enough.

As an entrepreneur. I thought I was the only person who struggled with this. And so I just want you to know that you've had that impact on me. I know I'm not the only person who's in that audience who felt that. And then all of the ripple effects of the people that you have touched through that one insight, just that one. And.

You were impactful and inspiring beforehand and to see how you have become like next level Aubrey since, it's terrifying.

And I will be telling that story for the rest of my life because I feel as though that was a complete turning point in my life. And I'm very thankful to you for that.

Thank you brother.

Thanks for being here.

Hugs.

Thanks Aubrey.

It.