Challenges and Strategies for Early-Stage Start-ups in the Biotech Industry with Priya Baraniak, Chief Business Officer at OrganaBio

Welcome to Building Biotechs, a podcast by Reeconomics Consulting.

We've helped over 75 biotech, life science and venture capital firms strategize, hire and retain thousands of employees to scale companies that bring life saving drugs to patients.

We speak with those at the forefront of growing biotechs to learn their tactics on building these companies from the ground floor to the C suite.

We're your host, Karina and Allison.

So Priya is delightful and what an interesting career path. I have not seen a career path quite like hers. I mean we hear about business folks that transition from a PhD into the business world, but her business role is really different than you would sort of think for a chief business officer. Priya Baraniak wears at least 30 different hats. She is officially the chief business officer at Organa Bio, but she also wears the hat of the lab director. She co leads their process and product development and manufacturing departments and she basically is the doer of all things. So I think what a really key takeaway here is that really small businesses require people that are willing to just sweep the floors or as she says, shovel the poop.

She is really fun to talk to. She is so open and transparent about the challenges that small businesses face and shared so many interesting insights about her career path which has been incredibly unique and and it's a great episode.

So we hope you enjoy.

Priya, thank you so much for joining us today. We are super excited. As always. We're going to kick it off by asking what did you want to be when you were 7? What are you now and how did you get there?

When I was seven I wanted to be an astronaut. My brother likes to joke that I'm a space cadet. So I'm halfway there. And then by the time I was in eighth grade, I wanted to be a biomedical engineer. And I at that point in time thought I'd want to have my own research lab, be a professor. And that dream actually persisted right at until the very end of my postdoc when at the 11th hour, I jumped ship for industry. My career is not at all what I thought it would be or where I would have thought that I would be today. It has been very serendipitous, very surprising, but wildly fun and rewarding.

That is amazing. And I have a question. So eighth grade is like very early to know that. I don't even think I knew what a biomedical engineer was in eighth grade. So did you know people who were in the field or was it just.

Something you stumbled into? I got really lucky so I Grew up in central New Jersey. And my 8th grade science teacher assigned different areas of science to everyone in the class. And we had to do a written report and then an oral report to the class about that field of study. I got genetics, but my best friend got biomedical engineering. I had never even heard about it up until that point. I actually, you know, funny, I did skip one thing. I thought about being a doctor all the way up until I went to my PhD. So I had at that point really thought, okay, maybe I want to be a doctor. And then when we were working together, joined at the hip, she was researching biomedical engineering, I was researching genetics. And the more I kind of learned alongside her, I was like, this is really cool. I want to do this. And so that's where the decision was made.

That's incredible. That's so impactful that at such a young age, like a teacher just assigned this workout and that was your trajectory. That's amazing.

Yeah. Very lucky she sent me on that path.

Absolutely. We always talk about we don't have quite enough scientists that are actually made here in the United States because we don't expose children really young enough, I think, to what could be. So that's great. I had a great science teacher, must have been sixth grade, and that set me, basically, we just blew things up in the parking lot.

I had such great science teachers all along, and they really just instilled that passion in me. So the power that teachers have to inspire and set people on their paths is really, I think, underappreciated. And our teachers in general, I think, are underappreciated. They are absolute heroes.

So there are a lot of ways you could have taken a career in biomedical engineering, but you ended up in sort of regenerative medicine space. How did that happen and what was that story?

So my undergraduate degree, I double majored in electrical engineering because why not? That would be fun. Right. So I really thought I was more interested on the device side of things. Right. And one of my early courses at Duke was actually taught by the inventor of the ultrasound and very device heavy. And I thought, well, this is really cool. This is what I want to do. And then ended up learning through my undergraduate advisor and just kind of seeing what was happening on campus about the whole field of tissue engineering and regenerative medicine. And I thought, this is really cool. This is the future of medicine. Right. And so I sought out a lab to do research in as an undergrad. I was very lucky that Doris Taylor gave me a chance in that field. She's involved with biofab and army as well. And so you may have had the opportunity to meet her. I knew nothing. I had never spent any time in a lab. I knew nothing about science really outside of what I learned in textbooks. But I was really eager to learn and really eager to have that experience. And she gave me that and was instrumental on my path forward in regenerative medicine and how I decided, yeah, I really do want to follow a PhD path and maybe be a professor myself. All of that was thanks to Doris.

That is very cool.

And so spinning off of that, you're.

Still with Organabio, but you're the chief business officer, so how does that tie in? And can you tell us a little bit about what your day to day is?

Choose your own adventure. Every day is what we say at Organabio or any small company, right? So I guess maybe I'll work a little bit in backwards. So I am the chief business officer here and so oversee our commercial operations obviously sales, marketing, business development, product development, product management as well as project management all fall under my purview on that side. But I am also currently the co lead for process development and manufacturing and serve as our laboratory director as well because of my technical background. So it's wildly fun. I get to sit every day at the intersection of science and business and so having all the scientific discussions, looking at SOPs, MBRS, experimental plans, putting things together, reviewing them, releasing product alongside quality, all of that, but also marrying that to, you know, the business side. What are we seeing in the market as industry trends? What do people, cell therapy developers need to move the needle? What solutions are they seeking that don't exist today that we might be able to provide? And then defining, okay, what do those products and solutions need to look like? What's that target product profile for each individual customer, their very unique needs and then marrying all of that together, right? And it really takes that holistic approach of what does the customer need married to what can we do scientifically without sacrificing qual quality, but maintaining good cost of goods and economies to make it also manageable from a monetary perspective for our customers. Day to day I'm constantly switching hats between all of those functions which I really enjoy. I get to work with a team of brilliant people, scientists and business people and it's a lot of fun. How I got here was again, like I said, not at all my intended career path and not what I would have ever expected. Even now my parents sit there and laugh. They're like, we never would have thought that you'd know anything about PNLs and raising money. And I asked how a credit card worked when I went to college. I didn't understand that. So I've come a really long way on that front. As I mentioned, I. I always thought I wanted to be a research professor and have my own lab. And I was going to have an air hockey table in the back of the labs. My grad students could play air hockey when they needed to blow off steam. And at the 11th hour, I realized as I was finishing my postdoc that academia wasn't quite the right fit for me. Right. And I have a world of respect for academics and the people who go the tenure track route and we stand on their shoulders, but that just wasn't for me. And so I jumped ship to industry. We knew I had had my two first kids back to back during my postdoc, and so we knew we needed to get closer to family. At that time, we were in Atlanta, we were looking at the Northeast because we were like, we need some support, we need some help, and they need help to survive us. And so we looked up in the Philadelphia, New Jersey area. And my husband got a job with DuPont. And so I said, okay, well, now we're going to narrow the search to this region, the greater Philadelphia area, see what we can find. And I happened to find a small clinical stage startup in the area. And they were looking for a scientist to come in who had stem cell experience, tissue engineering experience, because they were in the final stages of applying for a 510 for a regenerative medicine device that combines stem cel, a matrix, a biomaterial for tendon repair. Right up my alley. So applied, got the job started as a scientist, but because it was such a small company, really got to wear a lot of different hats there and learn about all the different elements of industry that really take something from concept to being a viable product that can go in a human being. I knew nothing about that when I left my postdoc. We don't do a great job educating on those fronts. What are GDPs, what are GLPs, what are GMPs at the academic level and training for that. I know we're moving in the right direction there with a lot of the conversations we're having, so hopefully the future workforce will be more prepared. But I got to work with manufacturing. I got to interface with the FDA and help write that 510 and talk to them through that. I actually got to write patent claims and prosecute some of them with the patent office. Really Got to do a whole bunch of different things. And so it was a trial by fire, but learned so much in the 13 months I was there. And that came unexpectedly to a close. So I went to work one morning and I remember the night before I'd been talking to our board of investors. It was a privately held company talking about, here are the technicians I need. Here's our plan for R and D. Here are the resources I'm asking for as we go into second half of the year. And then the next morning I got to work. I was always there before my team, but as we got to 9am I. Where is everyone? Maybe Philly traffic's really bad. Maybe there was an accident on 76, which is always a nightmare. Who knows? But then as we got closer to 9:30 at the Kislan, things going on here and our CEO walked in and she was in tears and she's like. Things took a turn last night. The board decided to put all of our resources into fighting an IP battle. We actually already let everyone else go. I wanted to do this in person. We're letting you know we're shutting everything down. So I got laid off, which was a sucker punch in the gut. Not a good feeling ever. And now I know it's not a good feeling on the other side either. Unfortunately, having sat on the other seat, it's a hard situation all around. But for the first time in my life, I didn't have a plan. I didn't know what was next. I've always been that person who's like, here's what I'm going to do. Here's the next goal. Level unlocked, next goal, you know? And for the first time I didn't. I was like, what am I going to do? So I walked around the house for a couple of days, having no idea, and started looking then for some other things. Nothing really excited me. And I was very lucky that my husband said, don't jump into something just to jump into something. Find something that excites you. And it was funny because I went from zero jobs on June 4 to three jobs by October 4, October 5. So first my postdoc advisor called me and said, I'm writing a grant for the first ever national cell manufacturing consortium. I don't really know anything about industry and GMPs and how those elements work. So could you help write this grant with me? Because he and I always wrote grants very well together. So I said, absolutely, I'd love to do that. Then my old company called back and said, hey, a sister company is Starting up programs. You wrote all their SOPs. Will you come and do the work? And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? And then the real game changer was the following morning when John Rowley, who is the founder of Rooster Bio, gave me a call out of the blue. And he said, hey, I see you're not with Garnet anymore. It could be both of our lucky days. And here's what I'm doing. I just signed a lease for this company, just getting it going. I need someone with your background and your skills. I can't pay you. What do you think? And I said, it sounds great. Let's do it right? And he said, okay, but I need you to build the business side. Sales, marketing, get our name out there, get customers. You know, build that whole engine. And I remember saying to him, john, I'm a biomedical engineer. Remember? I don't know anything about this. And he's like, well, you're smart. You'll figure it out. And so we did. We figured it out. And so I serendipitously fell into the business side of things. It was not an intentional career path change.

That's an amazing story.

So we here in this meeting are all pretty excited about regenerative medicine, but for the broader population. Can you tell us some of the things that you're particularly excited about and kind of what the industry is doing right now?

I think democratizing access to these things, that's always something that's really, really important to me. Right. Is how ultimately, how do we better the quality or save more lives from diseases that should be curable, that should be manageable? And it's not just about saving lives. It's like I said, bettering that quality of life or maintaining that quality of life for people. As a mom, I love seeing all of the advances, especially now with car t therapies and in the realm of pediatric oncology. Right. And we're saving children's lives. I mean, what an effect that has on families, on communities, on our future. You look at Emily Whitehead now, right? She's at Penn, going to college 10 years, 11 years after being the first recipient of that therapy, and what passion she's going to carry into whatever she does next. So that's going to be really exciting to continue to see her mature and her story grow and how many children now are benefiting from that, families from that. So I think it's really exciting to see all these follow on therapies, to look at the ways that we're looking at scaling them out, scaling them up to be able to generate more doses and treat more patients more effectively. All of the tools, platforms, technologies that are coming up that accelerate that process where it doesn't hopefully take a decade to get to clinical translation, we're now seeing therapies, get there in three years and starting to see that clinical impact, but also doing it at economies of scale and economies that really make this accessible to broader populations. So as we talk about decentralized manufacturing and more localized manufacturing and distribution networks as well, how we not make this accessible only to the 1% of the population who can afford it today, but to anyone and get these therapies to remote locations where cold chain maybe isn't as applicable and how do we deploy these? So I think there is a lot of really good dialogue in the industry and again, looking at these from a very holistic level of not just the science, but also the real market viability of these and global reach. And so I think the next five years are going to be really, really exc. AI and the introduction of AI and machine learning into this space, I think also is going to be such a game changer as we move into 2024.

I love all of that. I think the democratizing of this space is really key. Somebody you and I both know well consistently says we're just going to make Elon Musk a new liver. What's the point? Right. We want to be able to bring this to the masses and to families. I think your point is so well taken.

I think you're hard pressed to find anyone whose family has not been touched by cancer or some disease on some level. Right. And so to think of all the suffering and heartache that we could circumvent is huge.

And we touched on this a little bit. But for anyone who's a layperson, what are some of like the real challenges that you face when or the industry faces when we talk about regenerative medicine? Like what are the big key holdups right now that if we could break the barriers, we'd see massive advancements?

I think from a technical perspective, supply chain access to high quality, robust, reproducible starting materials as the economies behind this. Again. Right. So not only how do we scale up, but how do we do it in a way that curtails costs, makes these therapies accessible. It can't be $500,000 per dose or a million plus dollars per dose. Right. How many people are able to afford that? How do we bring insurance providers into this to make sure that these therapies are reimbursable and that there's a path forward on that. Every, every part of the value chain has its particular challenges. The thing is, the industry is coming together to really talk about it again and very collaboratively, which is great. Another piece I think that's going to be critical is we continue to educate our regulators. Right. This is new for them too. And so it's really a dialogue between the developers and the stakeholders in the industry and our regulators to say here's what we need, here's data in support of that. It is safe. Covid did wonders for accelerating some of these processes and approvals and hopefully we'll see that momentum come to bear on cell and gene therapies as well. But we also have to educate our legislators. And whether it's on a global level, a federal level and even a state and local level, there are challenges to obtaining tissues, to consenting donors, to manufacturing, banking. And then when you look at global harmonization of those things and making sure that again from a global perspective, you're able to deploy these therapies, it's going to take a lot of work on the legislative front as well.

How do we start to tackle that? Do you have any thoughts and brand ideas?

I can just offer problems, not solutions. Sometimes we try to be solutions focused. You know, again, I think it takes an army. And so some of what I think is great is we are crossing barriers and breaking down silos in terms of who's working on what and thinking as an industry on some of these issues and what we need to move the needle as an industry as a whole. We have to look at how we collaborate and don't worry about where we compete with one another to continue to have these conversations work together to move our shared vision forward. And I think that's happening. We see a lot of great organizations cropping up standards coordinating body over the last few years. The alliance for Regenerative Medicine gainsteam and has so many advocacy parts to their model and what they're doing. Biofab army, the National Manufacturing Innovation Institute's Nimble et cetera CMAT that's housed at Georgia Tech. So we're seeing a lot of consortia and different groups come up. I think where we need to be careful is we're breaking down silos, but we might be recreating them by having too many working groups and too many groups working on different the same thing in different ways. And so I think just trying to be transparent about all of that and including all of the relevant stakeholders and continuing those conversations is important. I think it's equally important that as scientists, we get involved in these things. We don't just sit in our labs and do what we do, but we take the time to go out and educate the next generation. Right. Run fun events to get kids excited about stem, to teach lay people about, hey, a stem cell doesn't mean you're killing a baby necessarily. Right. And there are still so many misconceptions or misunderstandings about what we do and misgivings about what we do. We're not stealing your DNA to clone you. No. Create a clone army. And so I think us going out, educating the public, being more vocal about that, again, taking the time to go educate regulators, legislators, et cetera, is important. We have to be willing to leave our labs and take the time to do that, invest in that. I would love to see more scientists in Congress, in Senate and bring this to the table more effectively.

Career path, shout out. We should make sure that people are hearing that. I think you taking the time to do things like this, not that we have a giant reach, but it is important that we're talking about the issues. And even in the scientific community, I think we get a little siloed into different. We have a lot of different clients in a lot of different verticals and they really deeply understand the challenges in their vertical, but maybe not how they relate to challenges in others. Because I can't tell you how often we talk about the regulatory hurdles because XYZ therapy or vertical or therapeutic is new, but that's not novel. We all have new. That's pushing the public health envelope.

Right.

We all have new challenges and that's the speed of science. And so if we had more, more scientists on the other side, that would be really helpful to your point.

Absolutely. And learning from the past, drawing parallels between the specifics of what I'm doing. But okay, you know, what happened in monoclonal antibodies years ago and how can we emulate that? How do we learn from that? For instance, right. As we scale up, scale out and move things to industrial scale production, ultimately.

Wanted to bring it back to you and your experience. And specifically something you said when you got the call to join Rooster Bio and you were essentially second person, right. And you know, oh, I can't pay you, but we're going to build this thing. Well, you were there from 2013 to 2019, so you guys built it and it's successful. So can you tell us about the journey from kind of being two people with an idea to scaling this whole thing up?

To start out was John his co founders, so they were the first two and then built from there. We hired some people really quickly to help with just logistics, laboratory setup, management, things like that. And it was a small team. It was five of us maybe initially, really getting things off the ground. I think the thing with any startup now, Organa Bio is my third startup, right, Is that you need a group of people who have a shared vision, are very passionate about it, and everyone just needs to be willing to roll their sleeves up and do whatever it takes to get it done, right? Whether that's sweeping the floor to high level strategic thinking. Right. Whatever it might be on any given day, everyone's just gotta be willing to do it. And some days your day is really just shoveling poop, and other days you get to do the really fun highbrow stuff, you know, and you got to be comfortable with all of it and therefore all of it. So we were seven for a really long time at Rooster, and then we went from 7 to 15 for a while and then exploded to 50 quickly from there. Right. And so with each of those, definitely growing pains, as any organization faces not only an integration of new people, new personalities, culture, and how that evolves, how that shifts with the various personalities, but also the early team, again is used to doing so many things and wearing so many hats and having clear line of sight to everything in the organization. And so you really have to get comfortable being uncomfortable with that growth as well, right? As as your lane may narrow as roles and responsibilities get more and more defined, as teams mature, as the corporation matures and you're where you're adding different functions and people have lanes, swim lanes, even though the edges might be slightly blurred, the lanes become clearer and clearer. And there is an INC article that I always refer to that I really like about letting go of your Legos. And so you're over here building with your pile of Legos and you're building all this really fun stuff and someone comes along and says, okay, all the red Legos now are going to go to this other person, right? Because they're going to be building this, they're going to take that and they're going to build that part of the business over here. And there's always that but, but, but those red Legos were mine, you know, or I was doing that and now you're handing it to someone else. And so it's that mentality they say of let go of those Legos because you will get more Legos and what then you're able to build will be Even bigger and better. Right. And so that's how Rooster evolved. But I think we see that again at Organa. Right. We were small to begin with. We could all fit around a folding table when we first started, and then we grew and now we're upwards of 35. And these are things we're always mindful of too, is what are the swim lanes, where are they blurry? How do we help people maintain a flexible mindset while still having clarity around what they're supposed to be doing and what they're accountable for and responsible for, which can be nebulous sometimes in a startup and getting used to. Okay. Every time the organization grows, there are going to be changes and shifts and especially on the sales side as well. This can be difficult. Right. With reallocation of territories and accounts. And we've had to make so many changes time and again to our sales team and who owns what want just based on who we have at any given period of time. And really, it's like coaching a team. Right. So who are the players who showed up today who are well enough and on my roster that I can plug in, and how do I put the right players in the right spot today for maximum effectiveness and might change as the roster changes or the opponent changes? Today you might be playing shortstop and next week you might have to play third base. And you just have to be comfortable with that. That.

I love that analogy. I mean, first of all, I need to find the Lego article because that's fantastic. And I think delegation is really. That is like, very hard. Right. Delegating out your work when you're used to doing it and seeding control is very difficult. So Organa Bio has about 35ish employees, you said. So that leads me to. One of my favorite questions is around communication, because you started when it was small. So obviously communication in a small team is super easy and everything's open and transparent. How are you guys handling communication with your 35 team members? And are you all remote? Are you in person? What's the structure of the company?

It's hybrid. So we're headquartered in Miami. I live up in Pennsylvania, outside Philadelphia, and so I have always been remote and down to Miami, you know, as needed and as often as possible. They need me more in the winter months, by the way, but we have team members across the country and also a core team in Miami. So, yes, communication is always something that you have to be very mindful about and do with intention in today's world. Sometimes you feel overwhelmed by the communication. We've Got teams, we've got email, we've got text messages, we've got phone calls. Right. And so there are a million different ways for us to communicate. But look like any organization we've experienced pain with that over time. I think that what we have right now is a group of individuals who are working beautifully together in a non siloed way. We try to make key decisions by committing rather than any one individual so that all the different viewpoints are coming to the table to again provide that holistic view of the situation. Because I might just be thinking from a sales perspective but I haven't really thought about well, is this actually scientifically viable or where are the pitfalls here? What from a quality or regulatory perspective might be a hurdle or something that we have to think about and put those pieces in place. So I think we do a really good job right now of bringing all the right stakeholders to the table, having very cross functional meetings and conversations. And that is something that we haven't always done beautifully. Right. There have been periods where it has been siloed but right now I think we've moved back to doing that really well, especially in the last three, four months. And that is something that our leadership team is really, really committed to maintaining as we grow is that culture of transparency as well as cross functional team spirit. Right. We're all one team and this rising tide is going to lift all of us in all boats or we're all going to sink together.

I have a two slash threefold question for you, so answer what you want of it. So first of all, as a CBO here versus what a CBO does in other companies, can you sort of compare and contrast that? So kind of what is your role versus what, what would most people consider like oh, the chief business officer does this and then second slash third. I guess that's kind of too. This is typically a male dominated role. How have you handled that and navigated that?

Okay, so I'll start with the first piece which is, you know, I've only been CBO at Organa Bio so I don't have another point of internal reference. But my understanding of a chief business officer was always someone who was really bearing much focused on numbers and money. Right. Almost like a CFO light. Right. Who's driving the business? The strategy, the commercial strategy, sales, marketing efforts, but really with that eye towards revenue. Revenue. Revenue, Right. And what are our cost of goods, what's our market share, what's our profit margin, you know, top line revenue, bottom line, where are we all of that that is definitely a part of what I do. But we have a CEO who comes from, you know, a more classical business background. He's got that covered. We have a fractional CFO who's also on top of that in my role at Organa Bio again, I wear many, many hats. And so to me, chief Business officer, I do some of what a traditional chief business officer would do, obviously, but I'm also down in the weeds a lot more than I think a CBO at a larger organization would be. And I also wear, you know, some days I feel feel like I'm COO and chief of staff as well, or there are just many different facets to the job. But that's what I love about it. And no two days are exactly alike. And I'm constantly challenged, I'm constantly learning, and I'm constantly doing exciting things, even for me. So it's really fun in terms of it being more male dominated. Absolutely right. I'm a female engineer. I'm used to being in a crowded big lecture hall filled with, with men rather than women. It doesn't intimidate me. I've been very used to it, like I said, from young days of undergrad on. I think as with any woman in the field, we can definitely commiserate on times where we have felt mistreated, unheard, and even to an extreme at times harassed. But overall, I'd say that I've had many, many the positive men around me who have always treated me as an equal, given me equal opportunities. I get called dude all the time, right. And so it hasn't held me back. And that starts with my dad saying, hey, you know, girls can do everything boys can do. Go out, do it, don't let it hold you back all the way to the people I work with today. But it's very, very important to me that I've been very blessed in so many ways and to pay that forward. And so I love of strong women, you know, may we be them, may we raise them. I think it's great that this next generation of girls is even more outspoken and outgoing than we are and I think struggle a little less with self promotion than we do. And they have a healthy sense of self and they're less willing to put up with some of the things that we've put up with. And then you look at the generation before us, they put up with so much more than we did. Right. So for each generation, it's our job to bring those barriers down, break those down, make it easier for the next. But Definitely, Definitely. You know, that's something I'm very passionate about, is supporting other women, helping other women exceed and excel, and, you know, forming that community and then teaching our next generation of girls to be strong, powerful, and comfortable in their own voices.

If someone came to you and said, I want to follow in your career and I want to be the CPO of a biotech startup, what advice would you have for them specifically in regards to, you know, maybe education or things that you were like, okay, if I knew this, this would have made this so much easier. I'd be so fascinated to know, like, what facets do you feel like if you could have gone back in time and been like, okay, I'm really going to core focus on this one thing, or is there just not one thing because your job is nebulous and changes so constantly?

There are so many things, and I think that's probably the biggest piece is be a lifelong learner and always be willing to learn more, to be uncomfortable. Say yes to every opportunity, right? So. So even today, things come to my plate every day where I'm like, I'm not really sure how to do that. I haven't had to do that before. I don't really know about that, but I'm like, but you know what, there's the Internet. There are a plethora of resources out there. So I'm going to go educate myself and I'm going to figure this out. So don't be afraid to say yes. Admit what you know, admit what you don't know. Be honest in that, be genuine and authentic in that, but also in that, hey, I can figure it out. Give me a chance to figure it out. And I think you'll always find there are people who are like, okay, yeah, take it. You know, see what you could do, run with it. So I think it's important to have that mentality, that attitude. I think the technical training that I've had, my PhD, my postdoc experience prior to moving into this role, is so beneficial. Even if I weren't helping with process development and manufacturing and our laboratory director, I feel so much more effective in my role as chief Business officer and what I'm able to do for our sales team, for our customers because of my technical training and knowledge. Right. And bringing that to bear. So I don't see having a technical background and going into business as a bad thing rather than coming from a business background. I think that especially in biotech, it really, really helps. What I think might have been helpful, of course, the early days would have been if I had had an MBA or some sort of formal training. But you can pick it up along the way. So along with going out, finding those resources and being really aggressive in learning and teaching yourself, I think it's also important to ask a really robust network and not be afraid to ask people and tell people, I don't know this and I need help with this. So can you give me a 10 minute TED talk on this or help me figure out where I should go for this? Right. And I think people are just so generous with their time, with their knowledge if you just ask.

Yeah, I think that's a really important message that people should really listen to and hear because we have a lot of conversations with people who hate networking. And to be frank, networking is challenging. Right. And breaking the ice and getting out there and like convincing yourself you're going to do it is a little bit. The more you do it, the less awkward it becomes, the more comfortable you feel, the bigger your network gets. So you go to a networking event and you probably know someone, but we do hear a lot of people say, like, it's just not something I like to do, so I'm not going to do it. But I don't think people realize like how limiting that can be.

Oh, it's so important to cultivate a network and, and to network. I never appreciated that when I was purely on the science side of things. I think again, I've just been lucky to end up with a nice network because I had great labs full of really intelligent people who are doing cool things now and that I'm still in touch with. Right. So that helped built in network. I've had mentors and advisors along the way who've had great networks and been generous with those in helping me to get to know people. But yeah, you gotta get out there and networking is so, so important. Important. I still have to psych myself up. Every networking event I go to a reception, I can walk in there and I think I can fake it pretty well. But I have to give myself like a pep talk before I walk in. It's still very painful. That first five minutes is just like, I don't want to be the one that, you know, no one's talking to, just sitting in the corner. I hope somebody will talk to me. I hope there's someone I know. Like that anxiety, that social anxiety is so real for me, me. But I think you just have to force yourself to do it. And like you said, it gets easier. The first five minutes can be hard, but I'D say, one of the things I do is always find out ahead of time who I know, who's going to be there and say, hey, look out for me. And so I'll start with the safe space, like, I know you. Okay, let's start with you, and then I'll ease into it. Right. But networking is important, not only from a self promotion kind of standpoint. Right. Of. Okay, if I'm going to be looking for a new opportunity, a new job, what's going to open that door for me is who knows me and who's who I can leverage to put in a good word for me or make an introduction for me. Right. But it's also as easy as selling. And if I need to sell to someone new, if they know someone I know and I can leverage that, it's easier to have that conversation. But it's also like, we were just talking about having a network of people where you can say, this is not my area of expertise. I don't know about this. Can I talk to you for 15 minutes? Would you be able to, like, drop some of your wisdom on me, please? It's just so helpful. Helpful.

I do think that if more people realize that everyone walking into the room feels like, oh, this is the worst, and I feel so nervous and awkward, then it would just be better. Like, we should all just admit it when we walk in. Like, hey, this is terrible. Let's just make the most of it because we all have to be here. But it's true. Like, very few people. I feel run in thinking, like, this is the best thing I'm going to do today.

I have a couple people, one person in particular on my sales team who I think is like that. And I just, I wish I could be like her. She's like, let's go. And I'm like, okay, let's go ask.

Her for her tips and tricks and then let us know because it is awkward, you know, first five minutes.

Like you said. I'm curious, as that individual on your sales team, do they come from a strong scientific background?

She does have a scientific background, but she spent a lot of years in marketing and was actually. She reached out to me via network, you know, on her next marketing opportunity. And I had met her at a conference, conference, and I said, have you thought about sales? Because I really feel like you should be in sales. And she was like, I have, but I don't know. And I said, well, if you're willing to give it a shot, I'm willing to give you a job. Because I really think you'd excel at this. And she's fantastic.

I've got a few really good friends from grad school that went into sales and they were exactly who you'd think. And the rest of us were like semi introvert or very introverted. And we did not go into sales. Sales, yeah.

And then I fell into it. So yeah, I've had to learn how to stand on that other side of the table. And you know, when I was in grad school and postdoc I'd go to conferences and I'd be that person who walked by the booths like this. Like don't make eye contact, don't talk to them, maybe just grab a pen while I walk by and do a, do a drive by. And so standing on the other side of the table was so eye opening. You get a real appreciation for how hard those individuals work, the skill sets that they're bringing to the table, how hard it is to be on the BD and sales and marketing side of things. But also, you know, you learn so much about yourself and human psychology when you're on that side of the table as well.

I think it's important to note it can be learned and that it is something that you can develop as a skill even if it seems really scary. Because listening to you, I think it probably surprises a lot of the folks listening that you, you are uncomfortable with it even still have to do that little psych up dance before you go into a networking event. And I think that is important to hear because a lot of people limit what they think they can do based on what is comfortable. But you are a discomfort seeker. You've already said that you enjoy being a little bit uncomfortable because you know it's pushing you to grow. And I think that is in multiple areas of your career. Not only have you sought roles that are going to challenge you, but you also put yourself in situations that not always super comfortable. Maybe we could talk a little bit more about comparing and contrasting the three different startups that you've been at to date in terms of the building process and maybe some challenges that those really early stage startups kind of share. Some of our audience are brand new founders and they are about to go through that phase. And I always think of that time between maybe like 10 or so people to about 50 as a really challenging growth curve because you are, it's like the no man's land, right? It's like you are putting those swim lanes into place, you're building things out into departments and so it's all fun and games till you get to to that point and then what happens then?

And especially when it's rapid growth, right? So when you're hiring like one individual at a time, you have a chance to really vet that one person, but then also spend a lot of time with them, integrating them, making sure that they're getting the culture. We all have our work language, right? We talk about love languages, we have our work languages as well, and understanding each other's communication preferences and modes and all of that. But when you hire really quickly, that's when I think also it gets really hard, right, because you're having to build that bandwidth, those resources, build that team quickly. But you don't get that much individualized time with people that you do early days or as you're hiring one at a time. And that's where I think you start to see some misalignment, some miscommunication or silos and sometimes that culture drift and people don't have that clear line of sight to everything like they used to anymore. You know, some of the learnings, it's really important to be mindful of who you're bringing on board. And I think this is a lesson I've learned multiple times. The hard way, and I'm trying to be very mindful of now is while getting a body into a role is helpful and it seems like we really just need another set of hands or we need someone to do this. When you're too quick to hire, the pain can be prolonged by making the wrong decision. So I think it's really, really important to take your time in that hiring process and to really make sure that that person is a good fit, not only from their skill set and what they bring to the table in terms of performing their job function, but are they really going to integrate with the team? Right? And do they bring the right attitude, the right mindset to the table? And are they going to be a team player? Are they someone that people are going to say, hey, I'm glad they're on my team, or are they going to poison the well? And when you have a small well, it doesn't take a lot of poison. One toxic individual can just have ripple effects across the organization that can be catastrophic. So I think that's really important. The other thing is, I've said this multiple times to people, being at a startup sounds so sexy, right? And everyone wants to be at a startup. I was on the ground floor, I was a founding member, but really it is like we said, most days it's just shoveling a lot of poop and just doing whatever it takes to get it done. It's blood, sweat and tears, right? There's really nothing sexy about it. Although that's. That might be how it looks from the outside. It's really just sheer determination, willpower and a high threshold for pain because you're so passionate about what you're doing and you're so passionate about that mission and what you can do if you're successful. And you need team of people who are that dedicated to it and who can work through that pain, who can be solutions. Focused problems abound. Every day there are problems, right? So you got to just expect that any given day you're going to have your list of challenges and do we have the right people who are going to stay focused on how do we find solutions, how do we solve this together and how do we move forward rather than getting bogged down in all of that and all of that noise. And so it really does take people who are flexible, who can understand that your organizational goal can pivot in a matter of a week. You could say, this is what we're focused on and an opportunity can come out of left field and you go, that's what we're going to focus on, know and people who can make that pivot and still be comfortable being uncomfortable pretty much all the time.

What about hr? When do you feel like I know that you've done it? Like, I mean, I look at your background and you wear all the hats and I know that at some level you get brought in on HR and especially in the early days and that can be so hard. So when do you think, like, okay, this is a startup and we need to get HR in like now. What is your break point there?

I don't know if I have a defined break point. Honestly. Sometimes it's nice not to. And especially when you're in a small company and problems about, you know, it's nice to be able to joke freely and have again a safe space at work. Right. Where you're really a family feel at that point when you're very small. It has its benefits to being having some freedom in what you say and what you do without worrying about, oh God, what'll HR say about that? But HR is helpful. Absolutely. Right on so many levels. We brought HR in at Organa Bio. So we were founded in late 2018, 2019 is really when we started operating operations and got things going and we brought HR in, I want to say towards the end of 2021. So a good part. Early days we didn't have HR. We had some HR functions that were different. Members of the team functioned in those roles. But I think especially as you grow again, you need safe spaces for people and you need people to feel like if I have an issue there's someone I can go to and talk to about this in a third party connection kind of manner. And I can't go to the head of quality about hr. If the process, you know, head of manufacturing is what I want to talk about. That could get messy. So I think it's important from that perspective. I don't have a prescribed time. I think it really just depends on your organization and again what you're sensing. But I think it's really important to be plugged into what your employees needs are, what their mental state is, their emotional state and whether it's time to bring it in. And we, we actually have, have a fractional head of HR who's working with us rather than a full HR department. But I think it's been very beneficial for all of us.

Yeah, I think one thing where, you know, we've found it to be really helpful is in that onboarding stage. So like you bring someone on but then you're asking someone who has all these other hats they're wearing to also like train this person and provide a great onboarding experience and stay on top of like all the things and that can be so overwhelming, especially if you don't really have an onboarding system in.

Place, which we haven't. That's another pain point I think that's worth mentioning in the startup realm is how do you right size that onboarding and training process and usually you're bringing someone on because you're hurting, people are in pain and you need that individual and you just need them to go and you forget about the training sometimes because you're like just go, just jump in with the seven anchors on and swim, swim please.

It's so true.

It is so hard.

We hear over and over, over from more established companies when we bring on guests from you know, HR where they have 200 people and they say onboarding is the most important thing. And we have this amazing robust, it's a three week process and I'm like, oh my gosh, startups don't have that luxury. So it really is so challenging and we love the fractional model of that. We have several HR folks that are on speed dial for us who we know work with startups, they'll come in and a part time, fractional capacity Just to ease those little things that you really don't want to deal with internally. It's a valuable. For startups, that's so valuable.

Well, and then the other thing you realize is you're growing geographically or is you're hiring people. Right. We have people in California. Their regulations, their employment laws, et cetera, are very different than most of the country. Right. And so there too, just having someone who's well versed in. Okay, if you have an employee in New York or Pennsylvania versus an employee in California, we had to rewrite our whole employee handbook because we hired someone in California. Having people who, again, they have a certain set of skills and expertise, that's really helpful. As you, as you grow and mature.

What do you see as maybe the next phase of your career at some point, maybe not in the near future, but someday.

That's the million dollar question. Karina. I joke, like, what's next? What do I aspire to? And I joke about being a kept woman, that that would be my next aspiration. I love what I'm doing today. There's nothing about what I'm doing today that makes me want for something different or something more, quite honestly. And how blessed am I to be able to say that and feel that way? I think as long as I feel like I'm continuing to learn, I'm continuing to grow. I feel challenged in what I do, which is making me grow professionally and personally. That's what I'm always looking for and scientifically. So if there's another area that I can learn and contribute on, I'd be happy to do that, but I don't really have a defined next thing.

I bet regenerative medicine will keep you busy for the rest of your career. I think there's a lot to learn there.

There's so much to learn, so much to do, and it's just such a fun field to be in. And I really, I think, ultimately so fulfilling because like I said, if we're successful, people are going to be better off for it and lives are going to be saved. And I'll be happy going out on my deathbed knowing I contributed.

So we always pretty much end with this question. What is your favorite book? Fiction, nonfiction. Could have read it at any point in time. Just something that you think, man, if everyone could read this book, that would be awesome.

Okay. My absolute favorite book of all time is the Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas. I mean, the story is just vivid and breathtaking. And yeah, it's a story of revenge, which is kind of fun he gets his ultimate revenge in. So I think everyone should read it. It's so much fun. But you have to read unabridged version. It is long but it's worth it. I love the Alchemist by Paolo Coelho. The other end of the spectrum. Really short, easy read. It's a fable, but love the story in that. And then of course I have my few handful of nonfiction books. I love biographies. Right now I'm working my way through Invera Nui's life in full. So love reading biographies and about people's journeys and how they got where they are and the challenges they experienced and how they overcame them. But love. You know Stephen Covey, your 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, EQ, Pete Lencioni and 5 Dysfunctions of a Team. The Ideal Team Player. You know those are all some of my favorite go tos.

Those are awesome. Thank you so much. I will add those to our ever growing list of amazing books that people should read.

So Priya, where can our audience find you if they want to learn more?

LinkedIn is great. Otherwise it's priyarganabio.com is my email quick and simple. And like I said, I've been very fortunate to have people who have given me opportunities, helped me at every stage of my career and who continue to do so. So I try to pay that forward. So always happy to talk to people, especially women aspiring as well as in the field, and be that person for someone else.

That's wonderful. Thank you so much. This was a lot of fun. I learned a lot.

Thank you guys. Thank you so much for the opportunity. This was super fun. I feel like we could talk all day.

Thank you. This was great. Building Biotechs is brought to you by.

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