Empowering Entrepreneurs with Leen Kawas, PhD, Managing General Partner at Propel Bio Partners

So that was a super fun discussion with Lean Kawas from Propel Bio Partners.

Yeah, I really loved her insights into building diverse teams and she has kind of done it all. So she was an academic and then she founded a company, had a successful exit and now she has founded this fund. And if you listen to one of our earlier episodes, Stephanie from Persephone Biosciences is one of the people who has benefited from her fund.

Lean just has such a interesting and fresh perspective on so many things, including the fda. There's a lot of good information in this episode and we hope you enjoy it.

Welcome to Building Biotechs, a podcast by Reeconomics Consulting.

We've helped over 75 biotech, life science and venture capital firms strategize, hire and retain thousands of employees to scale companies that bring life saving drugs to patients.

We speak with those at the forefront of Growing Biotechs to learn their tactics on building these companies from the ground floor to the C suite.

We're your host, Karina and Allison, thank you so much for being on the show today. We are so excited to chat with you and we're going to start it off the way we start off every show, which is asking what did you want to be when you were seven, what are you now? And how in the world did you get there?

Yeah. Thank you for having me on the show. I'm looking forward to having a dynamic conversation. So when I was seven, I wanted to pure cancer. And because my grandmother at that point passed away from cancer and there wasn't a lot of options for patients with cancer. So I remember my dad was driving us to school and I was trying to understand why did she pass away? And basically his response, we still don't have treatments for cancer. And I said, I want to cure cancer. And he laughed at that point because it wasn't like the science was not as mature as it is today. I actually ended up in drug development exactly where I wanted to. I studied pharmacy in Jordan and then moved to the US I got my PhD and then worked as a researcher and then started my first company, Ethereum to get publay. When I exited, I founded a fund with Richard Kane, one of the bigger investors I had in my company. Now I work with a large number of companies that are developing therapies, whether it's for cancer, neurological indications, orphan indications, pediatric indications that so we get exposed to a lot of technologies, a lot of companies and I'm on multiple boards right now. So it's amazing where I started and where I am today. The Second part of your question, how did I do it? I just working hard and not fully understanding what I'm getting myself into at the start a lot of the time. And one thing that I have to highlight is we do have something very unique here in the US which is the entrepreneurial windser people are raised to build, which is something very amazing and it's very unique to the U.S. you know, people start looking at the country with an immigrant lens and appreciate how amazing this country and the opportunities that we are given to build and deliver technologies that can have a big impact on humanity.

That's really interesting. I don't think that anyone's ever said that before and I guess we don't think about it on a day to day basis. You had a, a couple of major changes here. You went from an academic, you then founded a company, you had a successful exit, which is amazing and now you run a fund. Those are very different things and you've been wildly successful in each one of those areas. I'm just curious, how did those things differ and how did one lead on to the next? How did you end up going from a founder into this fund instead of just joining another company or starting another company?

Yeah, that's a great question. My first transition was when I was a pharmacist. I worked in a clinical setup and retail and then I said I wanted to recognize my dream and work on the research side and the point that I mentioned, cultural thing. When I came to the US I had the this is what I'm going to do, this is when I'm going to find a stable job, have children because this is the mindset outside of the US and then I got the opportunity to build a company. And when I first was introduced to the idea of co founding a company, I didn't fully understand what it means and but you work hard, you put your heart and soul into something, you build it. And when I left the company, Rick, Gabe was the other partner on the fund, very successful investor and businessman here in Los Angeles. Asked me, what's your next move? I said I have one idea of my next company. And he's no, we're going to start a fund together. And I was like, no, I'm an operator. What do you mean I'm not going to start a fund? And when he said let's meet at the end of the meeting I'm either investing in your company or we're starting a fund together. And one thing that he mentioned is you've done. Not a lot of people are Successful from being a single person idea, going out, raising capital, taking a company public. I had a lot of things I would say that were unique, but one I don't want to say against me still being a woman minority things that are not impossible but definitely harder. So he mentioned that you can help others build companies and building a company is a complex thing and when he said that it resonated with me because I had other people help me and to help me to get what I got and it's okay. Like I could be in that position where I could be value add not for one company but for multiple companies.

Within our Tell us a little bit about what your day to day looks like. I'm sure every day is different but I'm really intrigued. Like when you go to work in the morning, what are you typically doing?

I I'm also a mother of two so that's like a two year old and a six year old. So that adds to the madness. But it's lovely right? Because every day is very different. We do a lot of research, we interact with a lot of companies, board meetings, reviewing businesses, meeting a lot of interesting people around the world. That's the beautiful thing. I today had a call with a person has a business in India on Monday I had I'm talking about a person who has a business in the Middle east and it's just like also this exposure to recognize the similarities but also the differences between the different cultures which is nice because you bring differences. I always say diversity. That diversity with video entrepreneur in any company, in any day to day allows the human and the organization to grow. So that's one of the things that I appreciate a lot my day to day. The diversity of my day to day and the diversity of the people that I work with.

And do you work with companies globally or are you mostly US Based with your fund?

I would say majority are US based. We have some in Europe but we're looking for talent globally. But I don't mostly in the US there's time zone conveniences and still the US is the frontier in advances and technologies and innovations in the healthcare industry.

And are your companies based in one single type of therapeutic indication? But we spoke with Stephanie from Persephone a couple of weeks ago for the show and what a fascinating company. Can you speak to the general theme around the companies you're supporting in the fund?

In general it's healthcare and life sciences. We do have a focus on orphan indications, neurology, oncology, GI and metabolic indications that immunology, some autoimmune application. Persephone is one of the great companies, I would say. And when we looked at Persephone, there were two things that was very exciting about the company. One, the technology and the innovative way that they're using AI to identify probiotics, whether it's commercial or ultimately long term therapeutics that will have a significantly differentiated product profile. And the second part is the team. Stephanie and she built a great team where I think that Stephanie will end up being very successful because she has the recipe of being a successful entrepreneur. Perseverance, not accepting a no. She doesn't hear no, she just hears, I'm going to make it happen. I'm going to find a way. So this is people also. We look for people that we enjoy working with, of course, believe in their skills because it's not just an idea, it's an ability to execute online here and fun people and people where the vision and also human side is very important.

Are there specific things you've learned along the way that you think are really valuable when people are at the point of bringing other people onto their teams?

Yeah, 100% and done some things right. I've done some mistakes. And I think for me, when I look to build a team, especially after Yema, having a hands on experience and now as I'm working with multiple companies, first of all, the mindset. Two things that I look for. One is someone who's always looking to grow regardless of their stage and their career and someone who endorses a beginner's mindset. And when I say a lot of people, beginner's mindset means oh, they don't have experience. I'm sure someone can have extreme decades of experience, but they still endorse a beginner's mindset. Which means that I don't approach all problems in the same way because each problem has its own unique aspects and you don't want to use the same mindset that led into the problem to solve the problem. So I appreciate people who are innovative and they look to learn from everyone. That's the. When you hire someone that is starting their career, they bring a very unique and fresh perspective. And this is as valuable as someone who's been doing the same thing or is working in the industry for 20 years. Right. And how can you balance that? Bring the best of the talent that you have. That's very important. And diversity in open air is very important. And giving a platform where people feel heard and it's not just, oh, we talk, we high five. It's a fun Environment. It's actually showing that you're listening and there's change as an outcome of people involvement because it gives them ownership. Okay. We actually change this thing because of what I said in the last meeting. They become owners of this idea, they become owners of this change and they do everything they can to make it accessible. This is the good side. But I made some mistakes. I'm happy to also highlight some of them.

Yeah, sure, we'd love to hear those. You learned so much from the mistakes.

Exactly. I think also follow your guidance feeling. Don't feel pressured that you need to hire people. That will complement the image that investors are. That's the one thing that I think is very important, especially for first time entrepreneurs and women specifically. Don't feel pressured that you have to hire to satisfy intangible imagination happen. So as the world is changing and we are part of the change. I hired people that they were not a good fan but you know, they could talk football, they could talk golf instead of me sharing, you know, interesting things about my background. I think it's important sometimes for investors to relate to you, but there are ways that you can relate to investors. And I also didn't fire fast like I. That's the other thing I tell now. I tell everyone hire slowly, especially in an important position. The company, they, the co founder, they want to look for another co founder or another executive date as much as they could not feel pressured that you need to hire and if start working, fire fast.

Yeah, I think the fire fast one is such good advice. But it is so hard for people to enact because I think inherently most people want everyone around them to succeed and you keep trying to maybe fit the square peg into the round hole and then eventually it doesn't work. But by then everyone's frustrated. Typically even the person who isn't the right fit, I think they've realized and it's just, it's difficult things get harder at that point. So I think that's really valuable.

If it's not the right environment for this person, you're not doing them any kind of thing. But also the rest of the team. Right. But if there's specific things that you hold and it's this person is not fitting, whether it's the culture, whether it's like the way that they produce that work, it will impact the rest of the team. So that's the other thing. And it impacts you and it tells and creates all of this wasted energy. I think this comes with maturity and openness within the organization and environment as well, but also this comes with giving very clear feedback. You know, I always felt that I needed to quote, harsh feedback. Now I just give give very clear, straight feedback. And to my surprise, people were always like, we really appreciate how clear the feedback versus before. It creates that like, difficult conversation and nobody feels good about it. It's a growth journey. I'm sure five years from now I'm going to look back and there are some mistakes that I've done, but it's at least acknowledging and using it as an opportunity to grow and learn.

Yeah, that's very true. There's always learning that we can take away. I want to circle back on something you said a little a few moments ago. You were talking about not hiring to fit the mold of the person that maybe the VCs you think the VCs will expect or want you to hire. And I want to highlight that because this is actually something we hear a lot within our work in terms of hiring people. And it's something that we try to educate, you know, against doing is hiring for a certain background because you think that's the background that people are going to want to see or that will be successful. And it leads to maybe a lack of diversity because we're hiring all of the same people who have gone to the same schools and done the same thing. So tell us a little bit about this changing landscape that you're seeing in the funds in the VC world and how people, how we can take advantage of that to start to spread diversity or figure out how we can hire people that are going to bring that diversity of thought and background.

I'm just being conscious about it. That's the other reason why I wanted to be on the investment side because I'm more aware even I have my. One of the people that I hired is like, you're so big about inclusion and all of that stuff is how do you, how do you actually apply it? And like, sometimes I fall into that. Right? Like I said, I'm actually now liars if this is my experience. So I verbalize it in front of a team and we try to make sure that it's not impacting our decision. There are actually several studies that have been conducted to show return on investment and health of companies with diversified team, specifically like in general diversified team. And there are some studies specifically around women, like companies or management teams that have there's higher returns. Don't we all want to do better as investment firms? So I think like educating people about these statistics that there is significantly higher returns when you are intentional around investment and diversity. That is one thing that investors should be focused on. And the second part is in our industry specifically clinical trials. When you're testing for products, whether it's therapies or devices, you're running clinical trials on the society or the humans, which we are diverse. The. The one thing about diseases is they don't discriminate. Right. We all get. And now the NIH and FDA are very conscientious around. We want representation of diversified patient population in the clinical trials to be able to make informed decision how it impacts everyone in our society. And I remember one also another unique thing that me and my partner, we always focus on is patient involvement and the clinical development and drug development. And I remember this is one of the things like seven or eight years ago we've done a session with patients, Alzheimer's patients and we wanted to hear from them. Alzheimer's patients with tough disease. There's a lot of drugs that fail. And one of the things that I think happens is the way that clinical trials conducted and the controls and the patient commitment to the trial. So we, we wanted to include the patient voice in our clinical trials and design to improve the outcome. I remember a black woman who was early stage outliers. Um, I. She said I would never go into a clinical trial, blah blah blah. And I was like surprised. Yeah. I was like so what can you explain to me? She didn't know I was the CEO of the company at that point. She's. Because every company I go to look at the management teams. Nobody looks like. So why should I trust. This is very powerful. If we want our clinical trials to be more successful as companies to be more successful to recruit the right patient population, we need diversity in our management teams, not only in the people who are on the ground because obviously it is important. So I think we need to understand these things and be more vocal about it that there is clear enhanced return on investment when you are consciously intentional around diversity. And also it improves the quality of your programs like clinical trials and operations and you ultimately lead to products that have wider access and benefit to humanity.

That's a really powerful story. I've heard stories like that. But more in a survey of people who declined to participate in clinical trials said so to hear that directly from somebody and we know that historically clinical trials have been mismanaged and we know that and it's. We have to come back from that. And I think it is leading from the top would be really helpful and powerful for the patients to see and.

That that Specific why I was so packed hole when I heard her say that because there's a higher number of women who. It's one in two women will develop Alzheimer's after the age of 80. And then the other thing is black Americans, they have a higher percentage of people who develop Alzheimer's as well. So this is like one of the main or very important demographics that don't feel safe go into clinical trials because of the lack of representation within the match.

That's a stunning statistic. I did not know that. One in three. That is horrifying.

Horrifying. It's one of my biggest fears. I am not afraid of getting old personally. I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of losing my ability to think because I really value that. I really love doing work. I don't see retiring. I see slowing down a little bit. But that would definitely. That's a big fear. So hope we get that solved.

We will. I think we will. There's. And the interesting thing, there's a lot of companies that are women led now that in the Alzheimer's space. It's an exciting moment I think for biotech, healthcare, Alzheimer's and diversity being intentional. It's still like, you know, that we have a long way but I think that there is increased awareness and intentionality and these types of conversation. Sprint awareness. We all want to do better. We all want to do better health wise, achieve our mission by having a significant impact on humanity and ultimately, you know, have significant returns on our investment as well.

We can do all, we can do all those things.

I'd love to touch on Propel a little bit in the economic environment that we're seeing now. How long have has Propel been in business?

It's almost two years.

Okay. Oh, two years. Okay. So you really started at like quite a dicey time. We talked to a lot of founders and early stage biotech CEOs and it's been tough, right? It's a really tough environment right now. It's been really challenging and we're coming off of the pandemic was a pinnacle of cash flowing into the system and now we're seeing a real reversal of that. As someone who is running a fund, what do you see and how are you like working with people to get through this challenging financial environment that we're seeing?

I think that when things are tough, it's when real opportunities come up. You know, a lot of people are like such a time knowing but very fortunate with the fundraising and the capital. So from a fund point of view, you're able to circulate it very quickly. But the deployment of capital and finding their management team that will be able to survive this because we don't, I mean it took longer than anyone expected, right? Everyone was think, oh, 2023, things are going to look up. Last week they were saying, everyone's saying, okay, like 2024 is looking up. And you know, you never know because there's a lot of things that are happening. But I think for us and I, I tell this to the team then in the same mindset, if you are investing in product that we believe will have impact our patients on people who are impacted by disease, the financial return we saw and the second part, it will separate, right? If you support a drug, for example, one of the companies we are investing in is a pro and this is a company that has a drug that potentially will get approved for glycemia, for patient orphan indication in children. If this drug gets approved, it will have a big impact on this patient population. I'm confident there's going to be financial alter like the CEO is a woman. I bring it up because it's a woman. And for Some reason women CEOs know how to manage. They run way better in their they don't run extravagant budgets. So they've been doing well in this environment. But it's also management. When we're looking at management, are they going to be able to manage cash? Are they going to be able to run the business and pivot in ways that will allow them to survive this tough period? And so far, Stephanie is one of the Shoshana is one of them and they're like they've been consistent. There's consistency also in the ability to deliver and head smarts.

Hey there. Just a quick break. I wanted to let you know that if you're listening to this podcast because you are exploring careers in biotech, which it turns out quite a few of our listeners actually are, you might be interested in the Biotech Career Coach Podcast. It is brought to you by our sister company, the Collaboratory Career Hub, which is our career development community. If you would like actionable tips on job seeking and career development, that is the place for you. It is a companion podcast to our Career Coach column that we write monthly in Biospace, but we go a little more in depth and sometimes we have special workshops and all of that good stuff. So if that sounds interesting, click the link in the show Notes or search for the Biotech Career Coach on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts back to the show what makes you.

Confident in someone's ability or like a company's ability to have good management and to manage their financials? Is there something that you specifically look for that's either a red flag or a green flag, or is it culmination of many things?

You're dating the company, right? When before your investment you're meeting with a company, you're looking how they are things, you look at their budgets and what I look for and of course this the continued optimized process. But what I look for is someone who understands the business, all areas. You cannot be a CEO of a biotech company that especially small we invest in at smaller biotech companies later stage assets, but smaller. We don't invest in Lilly or Pfizer. It's really the companies that need help and capital and beyond. If the CEO is not aware of the details of the advanced stage and it's not controlling the details, but you have to have a good understanding of the business to have effective communication with your team. So like we look into that. The second part is when we are in a zoom call, most of the meetings right now is in a zoom call. It's also important for us to see how the CEO interacting with their team. Because if they're interrupting or they're answering all of the questions or they're not setting the stage, if you don't see that there is empowerment on the team, on the call, find the CEO and understand for them. If I ask a question and nobody's there, I don't want them to like to call five people to figure out the answer. That's also important. So the dynamics between the team is very important. Thirdly is how they take feedback when we have a dialogue. If they're so stuck in the way and they are not looking to be innovative in the way that they think in the authority interactions with the fda. I think anyone who is outside of industry or even people who's been in the industry for 30 years, their dieting reaction towards the FDA, very rigorous, very hard to make changes at the FDA. So they go into this like safe path with FDA. And when you go and meet people with you in the mds, we are looking for innovation. We especially in Alzheimer's and they realize everything that we were proposing to them. As long as it's scientifically logical that there's no impact on the safety of the patients and that it gives confidence and that the drug works. As long as you're achieving these things, there is no like walks that they're trying to prevent us through there. So also like how they are approaching their product development because each product is different. So the innovation and their willingness to hear other voices, whether it's from us or from the other team members. So how they receive feedback is very important. And that organizational skill and follow up and all of that, it's very important. When we look at the management, that's.

Really actionable, that's really solid advice and it mirrors a lot of we, we think about how we find clients that we want to work with and partner with in some of the same way. I wish we got to observe the interactions more because that is so telling. That is a missing piece for us is to be able to see the teams interacting with each other and seeing that dynamic because that cultural environment of the give and the take and the letting people have ownership, that's really valuable and beautiful.

And I tell people when you are hiring someone, don't just ask. Put references for people that they work with what are important. Make sure that you're asking for someone that they managed or they were working with just because that is very telling as well.

A hundred percent. Yeah. Our trifecta for references is a manager appear in a direct report if applicable.

Exactly. Yeah.

It feels like that gives you a nice 360review of the person. So we're wondering about communication within companies and we talk a lot about good communication. But can you tell us a little bit about how you've managed conflict both in the teams that you've managed personally and then also when you hear about things. I'm sure you hear about things in some of these companies in your fund. How do you advise those founders?

Yeah, this is one thing that I'm actually really. I tell people, don't turn away from conflict isn't as a way that you can build a relationship. And as long as there is respect and understanding that the goal is mutual. Right. A lot of people, they, they want to win an argument or what we want to. I tell everyone what we want to achieve as a team is getting to the rightness. Okay. So conflict, if it's pivoted into a healthy and dynamic heated discussion, can one improve the team relationship trust. And then the second part is we get to the right ads. So that's one thing that and I and for me, when, even when I have a heated discussion with someone, I remind them that this is because we got to that point where our trust was elevated and how we recover from a hated discussion is what's important. Right. And trust, transparency, honesty and most importantly respect is. Is very Important and as a leader, to always remind everyone that our goal is mutual. So let's listen to each other and appreciate the different point of view rather than resistance, which is another thing where this kind of highlights the importance of a growth mindset. Because if you have a growth mindset, you're. You're comfortable with conflict, and you're comfortable with, how can I tease out the benefit from this conflict?

You know what that reminds me of? I heard a really influential person recently say, nobody ever wins an argument. There is no winning an argument. Because if you've won an argument, we've squashed somebody else. Right. And that doesn't lead to the right answer to your point. So I think my favorite thoughts about conflict are. I love Bernay Brown's concept of the Rumble because the Rumble really is get everything out on the table. We come to this from trust and openness and candor and find the right way through, and it might bring nobody's point. Yeah, I just love that.

Yeah. And I have, like, my partner, Shrek. She's another amazing lady. We have very heated discussion. With respect. It's just like, very passionate discussion. And we appreciate that because we always come out with, as you say, it's. We come out with a solution or decision that really is a combination of an outcome of that discussion that is neither what I, you know, propose or what she proposed. It's always like an optimized combo. And that's how we try. It's like, exactly what nobody wins. Like, we want to create. You want to create an environment where differences of opinion can be respectfully and, as you say, in a candid way, discussed to lead us to the truth and the right and valuing it with people.

Do you have any tips about how to help people manage that conflict, though? You know, if you have two people getting so heated in a boardroom, how do you calm them down? Or like, what is it? Everyone takes a breather and you come back in five minutes? Or are there certain phrases that are like a go to for, okay, we gotta level set this and take it back down a notch. Do you have any actionable thoughts around how people can not diffuse conflict, but maybe reframe it in the moment?

Yeah. So. So thank you for the question. I'm typically the person in the conflict, not the one who's defusing the conflict. Just to be, like, very honest here. But, you know, I do. So Shway is the one who's bigger, I think, reminding people that the goal is shared like that. She always says, like, the goal is Share and let's slow down and because there's good ideas on both sides, let's slow down and, you know, write down the points from this side and the points from this side. And you feel like sometimes two people are saying they thought the same things, but they missed the beginning or the end. So I think, like, reminding people the goal is. Sure. But I'm typically one of the people that are being, you know, calmed down. Like, I'm getting better the older I get. I'm getting better.

That would be me, too. I have a little bit of a fiery personality. So I, like, always helpful. And people are like, all right, take it down a notch. But I like that. I don't know how long I'm going to embrace that.

It actually triggers me more when people say, oh, let's go calm down. Take a reader. For me, it's like, I. Our goal is shared. Let's have an action as an outcome of it. Let's write down what or discuss the key points. I like. And I think with someone, maybe it's culture, because it's. I feel like, why are you telling me to calm. This is what comes to my mind was like, why are you telling me to calm down? Like, but it's like my mind, I get distracted versus, again, let's find me. Basically, what are the topic. What are the key points that you want to mention? What are the key points from the other side that, you know, make it more of an actionable. I also, when I realize that I'm getting, like, heated up, I like, also try to diffuse it with healthy humor, but not. Not to make. Not to ridicule the moment or just, okay, we're getting ridiculous at this point. Let's try to get something out of it rather than stay in this loop.

Yeah, I think that's the big thing, is being able to break the cycle of exactly what you said. You may be saying the exact same thing that someone else is saying, but you're just not hearing each other at that point. So I like that, though. Sit down and make the list. How do we get to the shared goals? Because it distracts everyone from their anger. Because then you have a task.

Right.

I just want to say that it's not cultural. There is a lot of psychology research showing that if you tell someone to calm down, it has the exact opposite effect.

Anyone listening to this podcast, that is the takeaway. Do not tell people to calm down. Nobody likes it, and no one's calming down.

When you think about supporting people within your funds, you bring somebody in and now you want them to succeed. There's a monetary investment and then there's also the personal investment. You believe in them and you want this drug, this therapeutic whatever to go to market. What are the things that you provide in terms of support? Who do you connect them with? A lot of these people don't have a lot of experience bringing a company or a product through to the market.

Yeah. Being in the industry for close to 15 years right now. You build a network in connection and that's something in advice for anyone who's starting their career. Build genuine connection. And it's important that you. For me, network and connections are very important. So I've. I've been really lucky to have a very strong network within the industry, whether it's drug development, manufacturing, supply chain finance. And we actually have very strong advisory board supporting us, whether operationally or supporting some of our companies. The ex chief medical officer of Glaxis med that had 26 joints approved. So having someone like Ron on our team that we can like really bring him on. And some of the companies and entrepreneurs that don't have the same level of experience, we have ex FBA people are part of our advisory board as well and really help people navigate and be creative around FDA interaction. Also having, because I also did some business internationally, whether it's in Asia or Australia, and also opening up the potential for companies. And a lot of people are fearful of a global footprint or global partnership and just, you know, giving them some guidance about the benefits and opportunities for having these global partnerships. So it's. I say we approach our investment in our companies with a private equity mindset where we bring more than just capital, we bring value and expertise, whether to us, the team or operational advisory board or our merger network.

Alison probably thinks that I intentionally cue up a question every time that brings it back to networking, but I just, I feel like every single guest talks about how important the network is and it just is so true. We come back to it time and time again. And the nice thing is that science isn't done in a bubble. It doesn't have to be. And here we are to support each other.

It's impossible to do science or build a company or develop a product in a bubble. Like you need the network, you need the different point of view. And it is one of the most rewarding aspects of being an entrepreneur and building a company is having a genuine network that you can depend on, not only professionally. When I was working at my first startup, I had an advisor who was an executive in T Mobile. She had multiple companies that she built an exit to. You know, sometimes I would freak out. I was like, what should I wear? Instead of stressing out, then she would tell me what to wear. Okay. And I've never felt that this is. Was an awkward question for me. Build a network around you that can or can be friends or can, you know, be colleagues that you can depend on them and enjoy working with them as well.

So what's next for you? What do you want to achieve in the next 10 years?

I want to invest in companies that are building technologies that can help human health. And I would love it to be accessible globally and to truly have a humanitarian like for everyone. The other thing is I would love. I have a daughter and I. Part of my mission is to continue to. Equity and equality is for everyone is important in providing opportunities for people. One. One thing that we do in the fund is also provide internship opportunities for students or newly grads that are from diverse backgrounds. So really try to be part of that. You know, I'd say movement is very important for me. Am I giving back to the future entrepreneurs? I had a lot of people that helped me and yeah, it's just continue to give back.

What is your favorite book that you think everybody should read anything?

It was. It's a book about the. The boats boys.

The boys in the boat Boys.

Boys on the boy. Yeah. That is where it just like captures a lot of the human behavior, human emotions that apply to a lot of things. Importance of a team, importance of perseverance, commitment, focus. So I like it because it's kind of like captures a lot of the things that I believe and. And it's an inspiring story. And I lived in Seattle for a long time, so it was one of. And it was one of the first books that I read when I moved.

To the U.S. okay, I'm definitely going to read it. You're the second person who's recommended it. And I think there's also a movie out now. So I am watching it.

Yeah. Yes.

Awesome.

Thank you for that.

Lean.

Where can people find you if they want to connect with you?

LinkedIn. I'm very unresponsive. The other thing that I would achieve in the next 10 years is try to respond to every email or LinkedIn message that. Good luck with that.

I feel like we're just getting more and more communication thrown at us. I feel like my next 10 years I might just go off the grid entirely.

Well, we'll link to your LinkedIn in our show notes as well as your website and all of that because I think people are going to want to connect with you, learn more and follow your career. And I hope in the next 10 years, you, you or some of the companies you work with find a cure for Alzheimer's. That is what I'm holding out hope for.

Interesting. Someone called me yesterday saying the same thing. So yeah, I'm excited.

It's a worthwhile mission. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been fantastic. I think a lot of people are going to get great insights out of this and you're probably going to have a little flood of people trying to connect with you on LinkedIn.

Thank you so much, guys. This was wonderful.

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