Find Your North Star with Bruce Wu

This week we have a really cool announcement, so stay tuned for this conversation with Bruce Wu. He is somebody that I absolutely adore. We previously interviewed Bruce Wu on our other podcast, Building Biotechs, in his capacity as Chief Legal officer and Chief People officer. But he is actually transitioning into executive coaching and I cannot imagine a better person for that role. He is going to be helping us a little bit in our community. So stay tuned for this fun and warm conversation with Bruce. He's just a wonderful human and I think you're going to really love what he has to say about executive coaching and climbing that career ladder up to the executive level, maybe in your future if you're not already an executive. So this conversation is for everybody. This is future career planning or it's how to level up your career. Right now. I'm Karina Klingman, scientist turned CEO of a talent strategy consulting firm. I've helped over 85 biotechs hire and develop thousands of amazing employees. So I know what works and what doesn't work when it comes to landing a job and then excelling in it. I created the Biotech Career Coach podcast to give you simple, actionable, step by step strategies to help you land your dream biotech job, then move up the career ladder. If you are exploring career paths, looking to learn about biotech, or simply striving to be the type of person who makes an impact and gets promoted, you're in the right place. First of all, I want to point everybody back to another podcast episode that we did on our sister podcast, Building Biotechs for a really full introduction to Bruce. But today we're going to talk to Bruce Wu about his new endeavor which is going into some executive coaching. So tell us a little bit about what this transition means for you and what you're really excited to teach folks.

Yeah, and thank you for asking that question as well. I think what has been driving this is the fact that I have been, in addition to serving as a chief legal officer, I've also been chief people officer. And throughout this journey I've come to experience a lot of employees who became managers, who became executives, who became or aspiring executives in C suite. They seem to feel lost. And looking back, I wish someone were there as I walked through that journey to guide me to or be my sounding board. Right? And then so now being where I am going through what I've gone through, I want to be able to repay and build the next generations up, so to speak. I speak also because I've seen the, the power of doing it Right. And why not help the next generation of workforce if you will do it right early?

Yeah. And I remember you telling us in that other podcast episode how from a very young age you really liked helping people. And so this seems very natural to me that you would go this route. But you're so right. I don't know what it is about biotech, but we turn out these PhDs, they don't know anything about working in a company, how to succeed in a hierarchy, how to manage people, lead teams, and yet we just thrust people into those positions.

Right. Geographically, I am in at the heart of Silicon Valley. Like you said, a lot of people are totally unprepared to embark on this journey. And you see the trickle down effect, right. When you have a founder, when you have an executive who is not well equipped to deal with a lot of the interpersonal dynamics and relationship that can affect the whole company's culture. And I've seen that again, again, that when you do it right, it can be so powerful. But when you don't do it as well, you have people turning over. Right. Back to the Silicon Valley thing, there's a mentality of never enough. I'm going to just, just going to strive, strive, strive. And at the same time, employees knows a lot of company, there are a lot of options out there. How do you retain talent? Right. Because if you recall when you talk about this, the DE and I, what I have personally focused on a lot is the inclusion piece. The diversity, the equity will bring people into the door, but is the inclusion that maybe make people feel that they belong, that keep them wanting to grow and stay at the company. Right. And so that's another reason that that has sort of propels me to want to just really share what I have seen, what I've learned, and really just walk with other people on the same journey and then learn from each other.

Last time you shared a fun analogy about inviting people to the party, but really making sure that they are on the dance floor.

That's right. And that's right.

Inclusion.

Yeah, that's that inclusion is where it's an invitation to actually dance rather than just show out the party and maybe stand on the side.

Yeah, I love that. So we have a little bit of an announcement and that's part of the focus of this podcast, is to introduce you and what you're passionate about. But part of collaboratory going forward, we've wanted to include some leadership training. Now, as people know, I focus on the early and mid career folks getting jobs and excelling in those jobs once they're there. But we don't really have any leadership training that is really formal in here. So Bruce has graciously agreed to come in and teach some of those classes for us.

And I'm so excited to do that. Karina, this is going to be, I see a synergy of this collaboration. Right. Once you get into a door as a new employee, how do you grow organically, professionally and more importantly, personally so that you lead to next part of your career, wherever that may be. So I'm really, really excited.

Yeah, we are too. I think this is a big missing piece and something that folks in the collaboratory, once they get that job, they're going to want to stay so that you can help them to navigate those next steps. I think that's absolutely perfect.

It's a two sided interaction because every collaboration is that what we have talked about, growing professionally, personally, for yourself. But when you are the manager, when you're a new manager, how do you manage down? How do you manage up? They require different dynamic, they require different mindset, maybe even shifts. How do you do it effectively? I think that's. That would be something that we can explore as well. A lot of people can benefit from.

Absolutely. We do a book club every month and for two months we did some books that I know that you're familiar with and love. We did Radical Candor by Kim Scott and Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. And I think the surprising thing to folks in those book clubs were how candid conversations need to be to be effective. And again, that's not anything that academia teaches you. You kind of are thrust into this workplace and then things are swept under the rug sometimes and you don't have the conversations you need to have to either manage up or down.

Absolutely. And again, big fan of Renee Brown's work, Adam Grant's work and Team Scott's work. Absolutely. And I'm so excited about this because we, our philosophy, our approaches are so aligned and they're different in a way, so that makes it exciting. One of the things I have learned from my own journey is you build relationship not by avoiding difficult conversation. You actually build relationship and that connection by having difficult conversation. But how do you have it right? It takes a lot of efforts, intention to actually navigate.

So tell me a little bit about some of the courses that you would love to teach. We want to get some feedback from the community. So we want to hear from you, the listeners, what is exciting? What courses would you want to take that Bruce might be able to offer? So Bruce about the courses you think about Tuck.

So one of my true value, and I think I want to share, is to find your own personal North Star. And in order to do that, what I would recommend, one approach is to be vulnerable, right? To be intellectually curious. So I think one of the topics, and I'm using it intentionally because I want to make sure it's not just a single course because that topic can branch into many, many subtopics. But one of the things I found to be very helpful, particularly for new managers and aspiring executives, is how do you have difficult conversation and what do you do to have that difficult conversation or conversation? How do you find your North Stars? How do you grow professionally while aligning with your North Stars? I'll give you an example. Do you just want to be the next C Suite officer? Because that's what you're expected to do? Is that even aligned with your interest? Right? And so how you navigate while retaining, staying true to who you are, that would be a topic I would like to explore. How do you have again, difficult conversation? Do you find a negotiation from a mediation perspective? How do you have that topic with your, your manager, with your direct reports? And that can propel you to have further and more conversation. Maybe in, further down in the boardroom. How do you navigate with a group of people who are full of egos, right? Or who may be speaking a language that you're not familiar with. You, all of a sudden you're speaking with scientists. All of a sudden you were with a business person that may or may not. You might not even feel like you're speaking the same language. So how do you have conversation where you feel like you're speaking a different language? That will be another topic I think will be worth pursuing. There's also, I think be very, very helpful is to say how do you really circling back to the thing, two things, two, three things that we just mentioned. How do you find your North Star, right? Of all the things, how do you find who you are? So that way whatever you do find yourself, right? Are you an introvert? Are you extrovert? How do you use your skillset to grow professionally in the environment? How do you tailor environment so that it fits your personality? Susan Kane's work, for example, quite introvert. How do you harness the power that you have in the way that you feel called so that you can grow? So. So those are just some of the topics I would love to explore with folks.

I love all of those. What is your North Star?

My North Star is to be able to Be intellectually curious after you find out who you are. Right. It's not necessarily who you are, it's who you want to be and what you want to do. I see there that our life is a process of becoming rather than of being. And so that allows you to constantly grow and constantly morphing and be okay with it. In fact, it's okay, it's even better to put you in a semi uncomfortable position or situation so that you will constantly grow. It's okay to not know everything as long as you are growing and moving.

Yeah, I've done some work on this with one of my executive coaches too. So a lot of folks in biotech are not exposed to the concept of coaching and whereas in other industries there often are coaches at various different levels. But luckily for me, I think it's more normal to get executive coaches when you're running a company. So I've consistently had really high quality executive coaches throughout my career running both recruitomics and now collaboratory. And so I did some work on finding my North Star and it was really surprising to me. But not, I guess my North Star is that I absolutely, I have to be learning consistently. I am never one that can sit back and not be learning something and I like to be surrounded by people who are learning. And so my North Star is whatever I do. And I guess this is sort of the guiding principle is what if you're going to make a decision, it should be aligned with your North Star. So if you're going to be choosing between jobs, opportunities, whatever, which one lines up. And so for me it's always going to be the one that gives me more opportunities to learn and grow and be a steward of learning for other people.

I'm so glad to hear that as well. It seems like you have gone through a journey of self discovery. Right. And for you to be, for anyone to be able to say I have gone through, made a bunch of efforts to now realize this is what excites me. That takes a lot of work. Right. And how do I get to the point where in your case this is what excites me. That sense of vulnerability is brave. That's awesome. Congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah, I feel it did take a lot of work and discovery to get there and now everything's easier because I know if I'm going to make a decision, I know how to evaluate it. Whereas before I would, I didn't really know how to evaluate things. Do you know what I mean?

Yes. And I would just even use the knowledge that I've used Actually very often is if you do the, if you just sort of puzzle or come sort of day to day challenges and you can sort of weather your, you know, day to day ups and downs. Staying true to who you are after, after finding your North Star is what is going to take to weather the storm. Right. I mean, you're gonna have ups and downs, but if you, as long as you stay true to who you are, and that can change too over our lifetime and it's okay. But as long as you stay true to who you are, it'll help you weather this storm in plural. Right. Storms. So that, so that no matter what happens, you are going to feel that sense of empowerment and that connection to the world and to, to, to others and more importantly to yourself. And I think that's very often lost in the world where prestige, pedigrees and whatever you want to call this ends up being the driving force. Right. And I will also add that a lot of times, weather, economy right now, a lot of people have to make difficult decisions. You know, do you close down the company, find a job? Right. And how do you make those decisions while staying true to who you are that will end up very often ends up being what drives you and propel you to the next leg of your journey. A lot of people didn't recognize or refuse to recognize. It's time to make a pivot. It's so important to figure out who you are and stay true. And so every decision you make will align with that.

Yeah. It not only affects three people you work with, but people you live with when you're unhappy in your job.

Right. For those of us who are in the, in the, in the position to make changes, people are watching whether you believe or not. Like I've, I've heard of people who are watching how we walk, how we talk, how we drive. I don't know. But like you, you the little sort of tiny things people see because they want to be the next leaders. So it's almost feels like almost our responsibility to be a good role model as well.

Absolutely. One thing I really love about you and I felt this during our first podcast that we did together. Honestly, that was the first time I was meeting you. It's the warmth and the positivity that you exude. And I think that just goes to your role model analogy. You are a great role model. I could see loving to work for and with you because of how positive you are. And that also is a ripple effect. Right. It's the, it's all of the folks you surround yourself with, whether it's in companies, at home, your friend group, they all have a lot of impact on your life. So you do owe it to people to be a reload citizen, a good role model.

Right. Well, and thank you by the way, and the feelings mutual. I've enjoy our first podcast together so well, so, so much.

Absolutely. Yeah. I, look, I've listened to it a couple of times just in doing research and things like that, and I think, wow, what a fun conversation. So I think that people will really enjoy working with you because of that warmth and that positivity. I try to bring that into collaboratory because everybody's really stressed in right now. It's the economy, it's biotech. It just feels really stressful right now. And so one thing that if anyone's done any individual one on one coaching with me or they've been in the small office hours, I try and bring my A game. I try and come with all of the energy that I can feed into people. And I've had people say they leave those conversations feeling better. And I think if you can internalize that and understand that every interaction you have as a manager, as a colleague, as a co worker or in an interview situation, you're leaving your energy with people.

Right, right. And actually I, I would say in addition, I love everything you say. What I'm adding is, in addition, what I would like to add is it's important to me to have the person or the teams I work with to feel that sense of connection and belonging. Right. I think that again is. I, I don't believe anyone in the world should feel they're totally alone. It has nothing to do with how well they are working or how, how much a good job they're doing or how poor of a job they're doing. Nobody should feel they're alone, whatever the journey is. And so I want to make sure whoever that we end up working with, they feel they're connected and then they can propagate that to their teams or their managers and their direct port. Right. And I want them to feel like.

They'Re listening to Hey, I just want to cut in to say that if you are enjoying this podcast, you may enjoy the Building Biotechs podcast from our sister company, Recruitomics Consulting, which is a talent acquisition strategy firm that specializes in helping small biotechs hire exceptional talent. In that podcast, we interview amazing people who are building biotechs. They are industry leaders in all different verticals and it will allow you to explore career paths in biotech and to get to know companies that maybe you've never heard about. So if you are a biotech fan, you are exploring careers in biotech, I highly recommend the Building Biotechs podcast. We'll link that in the show notes or you can search for it on Apple Podcasts or anywhere else you get your podcasts. All right, back to our show. So, Bruce, what can we expect going forward? Are we going to hear from you on the podcast? Are you in the community? What are your thoughts?

The answer I give it to you will evolve because I would like to see what the feedback is. I think it's important for me to grow professionally based on what I'm hearing and how to then help people. Right. I mean, the whole point here is to actually pay back to the community to lift the next generation up. So the answer I'm giving is going to change and I would like it to evolve. But at the same time, in the meantime, what I've envisioned is to be active in the community. Right. So we talk about individual and sort of a coaching. I love the idea of office arc because again, it's back to the nobody should feel they're totally alone and they could be just a matter of, hey, I want to do a periodic check in. How do we navigate this? I love, I love the idea of share my knowledge in a course format. I've been adjunct professor and I will love that as well.

Yeah, we'll do a poll in the community and we'll see what people are interested in. And that's going to evolve, I'm sure, as people get further along. It's interesting because the community thus far has been made up of primarily job seekers, but those people have gotten jobs and now they're in a different stage. And so I think too, with this offering where you're going to be able to provide a little bit more depth in terms of developing as a colleague, as a leader, we may be able to attract a different group of people into collaboratory entirely a little bit later in their career.

Yes. And I would say from my journey as chief People officer, in addition to the other C suite roles I have seen, I think that's where I would love to share my experience and just ideas with people who are. Who are recently founding a job or who are looking for jobs or who are thinking about in the same job in the same workplace and then go to the next level or branch out horizontally. How do you do it effectively? Those are things that I would love to explore with the community.

Love it. Love it. So Bruce and I went on to talk for a very long time about other potential offerings and I am so excited for him to be in our community and helping all of our members. Bruce is just so kind and caring. I'm sure that you could hear that during our conversation and I think you're going to love working with him. So my encouragement is if you are not yet in our free biotech career development community, go join it, because you're going to be able to interact with and see Bruce in there. And if you're looking for support in an ongoing basis, we're going to be getting some of these office hours spun up with Bruce so that you can actually ask questions as your career unfolds and just get a little bit of guidance from him as you navigate some of these difficult conversations, as you try to climb the ranks as you think about what you really want, what is your North Star. So if you're excited about that, jump into the community and we're going to be asking folks what types of courses they want to see from Bruce very shortly. Thanks so much and bye for now. Thanks so much for listening to the Biotech Career Coach Podcast by the Collaboratory Career Hub. To join our free Slack group and to get access to other great free resources and material materials, head over to CollaboratoryCareerHub.com and be sure to connect with me on LinkedIn Pro Tip when you connect with me on LinkedIn, you get instant access to my entire network of biotech folks, which is powerful for your career. If you found this podcast valuable, please subscribe or follow us on YouTube so that you never miss an episode. And if you leave us an honest review screenshot that review and send it to helloolaboratorycareerhub.com we'll give you totally free access to to our popular LinkedIn course so that you can learn all of the secrets behind creating a magnetic LinkedIn profile that drives your career forward. Have an amazing week and we'll see you back here next Friday.