The Evolution of a Company with Tania Philipp, Chief People Officer at Vor Bio

We have a real treat for you today. Tanya Philipp is someone that I've worked with at a few different companies and she is a biotech builder through and through and she is the chief people officer at vor.

Her passion for people just shines through. This is Tanya was born to do. This is how it feels. And she has so much good advice, so much actionable advice and I think you're just really going to enjoy the episode.

Welcome to Building Biotechs, a podcast by Reconomics Consulting.

We've helped over 75 biotech, life science and venture capital firms strategize, hire and retain thousands of employees. Employees to scale companies that bring life saving drugs to patients.

We speak with those at the forefront of growing biotechs to learn their tactics on building these companies from the ground floor to the C suite.

We're your host, Karina and Allison.

I'm so excited to have you on the show, Tanya, because we've worked together so much over the years and I have love your story. So I want to start by going back to the beginning. What did you want to be when you were 7? What are you now? And what was your career path to get there?

I think I probably wanted to be a teacher. Growing up, HR was not even something that I ever thought about. I think I love people and I grew up as the daughter of an Episcopal priest. So we were around people a lot. And then undergrad, my major was psychology and Spanish. And again, it's like, how do people work? How do they think? And then it wasn't until probably grad school that I started realizing that I really do like the science behind behavior and what makes people tick. And in terms of getting into biotech, hr, it was being at the right place at the right time. At a luncheon for a grad school mate's friend and she just introduced me to this head of HR and the rest is history.

That's really cool because most of your career has now been spent in biotech, right? If most, if not all, it could have been all of it.

All of it. I mean if you talk my couple years when I was out of undergrad and I taught, I was working with kids with special needs. So you dealt with the kids, the teachers, the parents, whole bunch of stuff. I knew I loved kids. I didn't like the red tape of public schools. The science in terms of dealing with adults, it's similar. So I just say it's a different sandbox, really is.

I sort of think of teachers as HR professionals. I think there's A lot of overlap there in terms of. You have to deal with a lot of different personalities. You're basically negotiating things all the time. It sort of seems similar.

Yeah.

Okay, so you just kind of fell into biotech. That's a little bit unusual because a lot of people do kind of steer themselves toward that. How have you liked being in biotech and have you even considered ever leaving and going to maybe a less volatile field?

Yeah, never considered leaving. I fell in love with it after my first job. And I think what was, what was interesting to me was when I would tell friends and family that I was going into HR and they're like, what, why you're so nice. Why are you going to into hr? And I think one of the things that I really love about HR and biotech is first and foremost, we care so much about people. They're just the lifeblood of the company. And just, I love, I have a, I have a such a sweet spot for research. So. Karine, as you know, I love the early startup phase. Um, I love the scientists. I have zero science in my background, minus, you know, my psych stuff. That's not a fraction of what we do. Um, and so I'm, I think I'm a curious person and I've just always loved the quirkiness, the, the change. I, I love dealing with change and just watching a company evolve. That, it's, for me, it's just, I can't imagine doing anything else.

When you talk about people like, why are you going into hr? You're so nice. I actually feel like HR as an industry has changed a lot too. And now people are like a chief people officer. Right. And like they have different names that are maybe not, you know, so HR and people management. So I'm really curious your perspective on the shift of the HR role over time and also how you've seen some changes in biotech and how they manage people.

Yeah, I, I believe I've just been really fortunate to work in companies where HR has been in the forefront. HR has been mission critical for the organization and not from a paper pushing file, making sure everything buttoned up. I mean, obviously that's important, but I've been fortunate to work at companies where the management team felt really strongly about making sure that we're taking care of our employees, you know, just their overall wellness. Not just are we paying them well, but are we creating an engaging environment, are we giving their them opportunities to grow and develop? You know, are we creating a space where people enjoy coming to work?

So we talk a Lot about companies that are in that growth stage of maybe the 20 to 50 people and then 50 to 75. There are sort of little benchmarks we think about and what are the shifts that you have seen and implemented? Who do you bring on?

So the first thing, and it seems kind of technical, I would look at implementing systems as soon as you can. I think there's, there's so many great systems now that just do a lot for you, so you're not spinning your wheels like opening a requisition. So I would say if you can get a really good payroll. It sounds so corny, but if you can get a really good payroll system and a really good applicant tracking system early on, because those you can kind of tweak as you grow. But just getting those two fundamental things done, it frees you up to, to sort of spend more time and understand the importance of really working with the employees to see what's going to work. I think every company's different. So, so 20 to 50, I think getting your applicant tracking and if you can get a really good payroll system that might have some onboarding stuff, great. 50 to like 70, 80 then. I think it also depends on who you have in the company. I mean for, for us, for example, at vor, we were predominantly research, we did a lot of focusing on career ladders because by then you've got people that want to understand what, what do I have to do to get to the next level. And that gives managers tools to work with. I think starting to formulate those, just those tools will really help you in the long run be successful. And then that's also your platform or your foundation for when you're starting to create other levels for other departments. So you, you start to get it streamlined and, and expectations are similar. Even though the jobs are different, the levels might be the same. And I think that's, the sooner you can get that done, the better.

You said when you came in what you liked was being able to like set up the systems right and get the strategies implemented and that you had buy in from the director level, which is so critical. But how was the employee reaction and how do you sort of mitigate some of the pushback when people are like, oh, but this was a startup and we were more flat and you know, the communication was, you know, more open and now we've got these systems and rules. That's not really everyone's cup of tea. So did you have issues with that or has it been kind of a non issue?

No, I have to say I'M really fortunate. It was a non issue. The other thing that I did early on, and this is the beauty of when you're small, um, I started having meetings with and it was predominantly research. So I started having meetings with the directors and research and we did a big calibration exercise. I mean I think there were only maybe 40 employees that we. Oh maybe maybe a little less, maybe 30 employees that we looked at. But we just level set everyone. Um, I think when I came in there were a lot of titles for below PhD and which is common. You know, people come in and they're doing offers and we just needed to level set everything. And I think having their directors there and having them be part of the process and just getting that connection with them early on and creating that community of trust really helped because then they had like they were part of the process, they had buy in. So I just, I kind of took them on the journey with me, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. Having buy in from the most amount of people is definitely going to make them want to help and have the project succeed.

Yeah, yeah.

Your messaging around that was also really key in that this is going to make everything easier for you. It's actually stressful when you don't have any parameters around what an offer should look like.

Yeah.

When you're a little baby company and you're like I really want this scientist but they're asking for this title and is that even something we can do and what is the, what does that cost and all of these things. It actually is a relief to have those systems. At least I feel like it is.

No, absolutely. And, and I think the other piece that's now helped us as, as we've evolved is we've pushed back, we pushed back on candidates that had this title but, but and wanted this amount of money and, and didn't have the same experience as everybody else. And when we bring these candidates in especially and early, early on, I mean even when you're screening candidates. So. So you know, for Karina we worked with, you know, now we've got benchmark and this. The industry has just gone so bonkers in terms of titles and, and years of experience. We've really toed the line and I'm so fortunate to have, you know, now these people are VPs. You know, when I started they were directors and they really understand the importance of, of level setting everybody and not upsetting the apple cart by bringing somebody in who really is just going to completely destroy everything we've created from a, from a fairness or an equitable position.

Are you seeing a little leveling off of that title inflation that we saw in the maybe 2021, 20, early 2022 era?

A little. I think it depends on the position. I think it really depends on the position. I mean, what we're looking.

I agree.

Yeah. What we're looking for now is so incredibly different than what we were looking for, you know, when I first started.

Yeah, yeah. The title inflation was a lot of fun.

Oh, right. Oh.

Can you tell us a little bit about sort of the challenges or the strategies you're working with now at 160 people? What does that look like? As opposed to the early days where it's like. The challenge is like getting the whole thing built. Now, are you just kind of ticking along or what's next? What happens at that stage?

Well, now it's all about data, I think what's been interesting, and I don't know if I'd say it's a challenge, but we have on site manufacturing, so. Which is a completely different function department. So, you know, when I started, we were all research, and then we started to bring in regulatory, and then we started staffing up our process, analytical, development. And so now I think when I look at where we are in terms of a company and where we're focusing, it's quality manufacturing and. And process development. So. And I. And now we're on three floors. So we're not just one floor, we're three floors. And it's all about how are we staying connected? And I've really. I think one of the things that I've encouraged and one of the things that I love about VOR is the employees really feel strongly about making these connections happen. So the growth has been interesting. And I think what we've really tried to do is help people understand what different parts of the organization are doing and how they all fit together. And that's it. It's easier said than done. But we really tried to create lunch and learns and mix people up. I mean, I can get into more of that later, but it's. It's just making those connections. So you're not just only hanging out with your department? Oh, you know, oh, why aren't these people at happy hour on a Thursday? And it's like, oh, well, they're doing a run, you know, and that just happens to be the schedule. So it's. It's kind of changing the awareness. It's a little bit of, you know, helping people understand that these different departments that are coming in are doing what they're doing and when they're doing it. So really connecting those dots.

And if I'm not mistaken, employees at vor, you have a fun name. And I can't remember off top, is it.

Oh, varations.

Varations.

Thank you.

Yes.

I remember hearing it and I was like, I can't recall exactly what it is. Yes. Can we talk about the culture there and like some of the fun things you guys do?

We, we will figure out a way to put the word vore into anything. I think we have our extra extraordinary awards. We'll say we, you know, our logo has a lot of purple in it. We'll call it vorpal. We have. What do we have? We had like our vorster, which is our toaster. I think we got a purple toaster. It's hysterical, I will say. And Karina can attest to that because she hired a ton of these people. I think for me, I always look at silver linings from COVID And one of the things that some of the core people at VOR were concerned about with hiring people during COVID was how do we figure out if these people are going to be cultural fit? So I think when we all went into lockdown, I'd say we were probably at like 2016 people. And by the end of that year, so we started 2020 with 26 people and by the end of 2020 we had 75. So we hired a ton of people virtually as Karina could attest to. And I just loved that the employees were, were so concerned about how, how do we hire for fit. So we really took the time to say, okay, what matters to you? You know, what questions are important. Yes, we understand the importance of sitting there and being in the room, but you know, let's talk about what FIT means to you and let's incorporate that into the interview process. And I think because of that, the, that core group of employees who they brought in really appreciated what it takes to make a company culture. So this is not an HR driven thing. It's not a management team driven thing. This is a VOR thing. And everybody at VOR really feels responsible for the culture. And I, I, I have to say I've never worked at a company with a culture like ours and, and it's, it's palpable. And people, even when people come in now to interview, they can, they appreciate why so many of us are on site. You know, we have not had issues with bringing people back on. People want to come to the office if, if you're the only One on Zoom. You have serious fomo. So I, I really think that, that what we started then has sort of kind of just continued to carry on and people just feel so strongly about ensuring that each one of them are part of the culture. We've also, we've also done things where we get different groups of people together. So like Robert will have a CEO roundtable, Lee Schwartz, who's in HR with me, we do an HR roundtable. We'll do Mix it up lunches where a member of the fund committee hosts and we pull different groups together. So we're really trying to create small groups that one have an opportunity to speak. Hopefully they feel safe about it and just connecting with people. So we'll try lots of different ways to create space where different people are connecting.

Yeah, it is a fun culture. I can absolutely attest to that. A lot of great people there.

I have a question that's a little bit about sort of your advice and personal experience. So I always think it's so interesting when people come on the show and they don't have a scientific background because I don't have a scientific background. And so I'm always curious if you were speaking to someone today and they were like, wow, I really want to have your job. I want to go to HR in a biotech, but I'm not a scientist. What would you tell them to set them up for success as they're pursuing that career?

I actually ask this when I interview all candidates. I'll say I'm not a scientist. Help me understand in non scientific terms what it is you do. And those types of people I believe are going to be really successful. Well, at least at vor because we really encourage a culture of curiosity. So and I, I think, I think it's really going to depend on how your scientists work and how people in other departments work. I really couldn't, I wouldn't be successful in a culture that doesn't encourage curiosity. And I've really, even Robert, our CEO does an amazing job explaining things and nobody, at least myself and the other non scientists, we, none of us ever feel that we're being talked down to that it's condescending. I mean we truly feel like it's a conversation where people are working to help us understand, you know, the technology, the platform. So for me I would just say my advice would be be curious, ask a lot of questions and see how the answers are coming back to you because that's going to help you understand just in general what, what the culture's like.

We work with a lot of candidates that are scientists and one of the major things that we try and help them to do is to communicate what, what they do to a wide variety of people. Um, and I think it's, it's interesting because I got into talent acquisition because I found it difficult to communicate my value to non scientists, AKA the recruiters. And I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder when I started thinking, well, they just don't understand because they're not scientists. No, I was a bad communicator. And I think that that is, that has been something that I've really, really solidly taken with me because as a scientist, yes, I do speak that language. That doesn't mean I'm an expert in every single scientific area. And it behooves candidates to be able to communicate at multiple different levels. And so what I've told them, I think speaking specifically about Robert, he's a fantastic communicator and I think that's a great example because I let candidates know that when you look at people who have climbed the ranks and they're, they have the big lofty titles, I can guarantee you they're good communicators because you cannot get there without being able to communicate that science to everyone and then think about the patients. At the end of the day, that's who you're really impacting at one point or another. And they don't understand the science. So I think that's just fantastic advice.

And I think, I think you have to be a little brave, right? I think you have to put yourself out there and that's hard because you don't know everything. Especially when you're starting out, I think you feel like you have to prove yourself. I know I know everything and I know I'm going to learn. And it's. Some companies is really crazy what they're doing and it's hard to understand. And, and I mean the other piece too is talk to the scientists, talk to the research associates, put on a lab coat, go in and do work with them. They love that. They love that walk through the labs, you know, go in their space. You have to have closed toe shoes. But I mean seriously, you'd, you'd be so surprised that, and I think scientists love it that a non scientist is taking interest in their work. So put yourself out there.

Hey there. Just a quick break. I wanted to let you know that if you're listening to this podcast because you are exploring careers in biotech, which it turns out quite a few of our Listeners actually are you might be interested in the Biotech Career Coach podcast. It is brought to you by our sister company, the Collaboratory Career Hub, which is our career development community. If you would like actionable tips on job seeking and career development, that is the place for you. It is a companion podcast to our Career Coach column that we write monthly in Biospace, but we go a little more in depth and sometimes we have special workshops and all of that good stuff. So if that sounds interesting, click the link in the show notes or search for the Biotech Career Coach on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts back to the show.

Now that we're on the communication topic, which is like my favorite, aside from candidates and everyone in the organization being able to communicate on their own behalf, as your company has grown from let's call it sub 30 to now, you're at like 160. Communication has to have changed drastically. And it sounds like you guys do a lot of face to face and the roundtables and the lunch and learns and I love all of that. But at the crux of it, what do you think is the biggest shift or how have you managed, you know, handling communications, especially when maybe you have to share not positive news? That can be really difficult.

Well, one, we now have a more formal corporate communications department, which is great, so we partner really tightly with them. But I will say Robert's a big believer in company meetings. So we always have company meetings after a board meeting. And we also put in what we call a bagel breakfast. No slides, there's an agenda and we have topics that we're going to talk about. And then it's kind of open for open discussion. So if there are any leaders of departments or department heads who want to share news, we work on that. I will say there's two facets to communication. I think transparency is huge. And I think the biggest shift that we've had to deal with is going from being a private company to being a public company. Because Robert is all about transparency and loves to share and really, really has worked to create a culture of trust with the management team. So I think what we've had to do in terms of communication is set expectation so that employees understand that these are the things that might change as a result of going public, because he's a big believer in ensuring people can exercise their equity if they want to. So I think how we've communicated has stayed the same in terms of the timing and the, and the meetings and the opportunities. Now it's kind of what we're communicating, so there's that. The other piece too is we've also put together, we have an intranet which. Can you guess what it's called? More Net.

It's got more in it.

And. And people have really embraced it. It's. It. And it's. It's kind of. Again, it's change behavior. Right, where people aren't going to get 655 emails all the time, which I think has been a good thing. Um, and so we do a lot of communication. You know, we have good news, we have book clubs, we have a bunch of stuff that we do there. So. So I think we kind of shifted that. And so now when we're getting together as a company, it's really all about, you know, what's going on at. For. In terms of science, fundraising, clinical data, you know, manufacturing, that kind of stuff.

So I want to talk about going public. That is always a really exciting topic, especially in hr. There's some interesting shifts that happen from the talent perspective. Setting up, like you said, setting up a robust applicant tracking system that could take you through that process was very important from the beginning. Knowing that that was a goal. Um, so a compliant ATS that we didn't have to then shift in a panic as we were going. Going through that process. What else changed? What else were you considering along the way? And how is it different now?

No, there's a lot more stuff. I think actually there's certain components of going public. That's great because now, from a compensation perspective, everything's out there. Right? There's a lot more transparency with comp. Um, and we've got really hard guidelines that we have to follow. So there's not as much wiggle room, which I think is good because it kind of is guardrails, and those are super important. Um, but I don't think. I don't think a ton has changed just from an HR perspective, because at least from from where I stood, I always set the department up with the assumption that we were going public. So I just started to put processes in place so that it would be seamless for us. I think the biggest piece, honestly, is just what we communicate and how that's really been the biggest. The biggest thing for us is what we can and can't tell employees.

Yeah, you did a really good job of setting that up. It really was totally seamless.

Did you take that approach because you had been in companies that had not done that and then gotten to the IPO stage, or were you just like, I know this is where we're going. So I'm doing it. What sort of led you to make those early decisions?

Just lessons learned of all the hoops you had to jump through and recognizing and, and having people come to me and say, next time you do this, remember X, Y and Z. So I did. And the other piece too was I sat in on. I knew, I knew Robert's vision. And so I sat in and talked with a lot of heads of HR that had taken a company public and just looking at lessons learned. So I guess my only thing there would be if, you know, people reach out to your network or ask around, because all of us are willing to share, we so value less than guard from each other.

Well, I think that talks, you know, speaks highly of the transparency factor too. If you know where the company wants to go and they're very transparent about that vision, it's a lot easier to plan ahead for that. Right. Whereas the secretive or the curveballs, then you're like, oh, I would have done this so different had I known.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How are you seeing some of the new technologies that we're looking at coming into play in your, in your world right now? You scared of AI, using AI, banning AI, like, what's going on?

No. You know, it's really interesting. We had a conversation the other day about ChatGPT, and I was talking to Robert. He said, it's the wave of the future. And I said, yes, you're probably right. I think it's all about educating. I think really it's, it's. I think we have a really solid relationship with the IT group. So HR and IT are again, tightly connected. And I think I am terrified of AI, but that's because I'm getting older and I'm like, why? But I do think we need to be open to it. I think AI can be really helpful in terms, especially from a benefits perspective. Perspective. You know, if you can have like simple FAQs that employees can kind of plug in and get the quick answer they need. So I've actually had a couple HR peers that have given me some, some guidance on AI and, and what they've seen be helpful. So I probably have to like, step up my game and, and maybe look at some of these online seminars. I, I think, I think AI in the right environment can be absolutely essential and again, can. Might be able to take some burden off of, off of the team, especially for a quick FAQ, Q&A type stuff.

Yeah, I could see that being really, really true. We, we have an intranet. We don't have it. It's not called anything cool unfortunately. But part of that is a knowledge base which honestly ends up being a lot of videos because we're. My team's totally remote. Right. And so if you're going to do a process for a client that someone else may need to step in if you're sick or whatever, we do a video walkthrough that goes into our intranet and we have a chat bot that's trained on just that, just that content. And so we're able to. It's built on GPT4 but it's only trained on what we tell it to be trained on. So we can go in and have a conversation and say I need to generate an offer for X, Y, Z. Like and then we know exactly where in the timestamps the videos should be. And that has been so helpful.

Yeah.

So I could see employees benefits are confusing and they're especially for newer employers, employees who are just entering the workforce. What even is workers comp. Why should I care about it? What, what do I need to know those sorts of questions?

Yeah. And it's tricky for me because I feel so strongly that HR should be a. Well, we are, we are a service organization. We are here to help employees. That, that is essential. And so where I have to do my, my mind shift is okay. But there might be some questions that you know, an employee can get really quickly and it's like. So it's that balance of. But I want people to come talk to us and ask questions but I want to educate them and teach them to fish. So, so for me it's just one of those things that I'm, I personally am struggling with because I, I love that face to face connection from an employer perspective.

You know, it's tough to know all the things that are in your own benefits package even when you've designed it. Like I'll get questions about a benefit that I put into place and I'm like oh gosh, that was six months ago. What is the thing? So even to be the face of the person who can ask me the question and I'll find the answer but it won't take me six days of reading through like old agreements and figuring out, you know, X, Y, Z that's so beneficial to put it in the hands of the HR team for those quick responses. So I think there's two use cases there.

Yeah. And it's amazing because took me for. I'm like why do we have team? It's just like sending an email what's the difference? Right? But people love teams. Love it or slack or whatever. And it's like, it's the immediacy. So I think this is the piece that I have to get over the hump on is that if people have a question, put, you know, pop it into a little chat, and it's, it's all about the now. Right. So I just, I really have to embrace that.

Well, I also find that, you know, for myself personally, when I'm sitting down and figuring out something about my benefits, I'm usually doing it like nine o' clock at night, like after bedtime and like after the workday. So I'm like, wait a second, like, what is this thing? And then it's, you know, it's nine o' clock at night. If you could just get the answer, that's great. But otherwise you're sending emails and it just prolongs the entire situation. Yeah, well, speaking of benefits. So for anyone listening to this who is, you know, maybe founding a company, maybe they're really early stages, they haven't quite brought in hr. They're still thinking about it. What are some cool benefits that people can bring in at the early stages that you think really help to build the culture?

We have unlimited PTO or unlimited vacation, whatever you want to call it. I think one of the things that we have done is we did this thing called summer free days. And this is something that doesn't necessarily. If you have unlimited PTO or unlimited time off when you're a small startup, you, you might have somebody who came from a company where they had Fridays off. And you know, that's not gonna work for a startup because it's like all hands on deck. But I think what you can do is try and do something like summer free days, where in, you know, maybe starting in May, all the way through September. Because I think the nice thing about giving something to everybody, similar to a holiday shutdown, it's everybody's disconnected. And I think people are just looking for a little bit of time. And people don't wanna feel like they have to check their email or, you know, be on call or whatever. And so we started implementing summer free days actually during COVID when we felt like people just needed a break. Um, so it was no ads, no meetings, no homework, nothing. And we kind of carried that on. And employees have come back every year and said, we love our summer free days.

Very cool.

Yeah, I remember that you used to call them no homework days. I thought that was. Yeah, no homework days.

We called them no homework days.

That was a really, that was a lot of, that was a lot of fun and people did appreciate that a lot.

And then I've always thought about that.

Yeah, yeah.

And we just, and it was, it's sustainable. And then we just transitioned it and now we call it summer free days.

So you work sometimes with comp and benefits specialists, which I think is really, really nice. Not every company gets to do that or has the budget to do that. But what do you learn from those conversations? I've certainly learned a lot from those conversations about even benefits I did not know existed. And things that trends that we're seeing. Are you seeing any benefits trends where it's like, well, everyone needs AI insurance? I don't know.

Yeah. Am I seeing trends? I think what's, what we're starting to see more of is, oh, I can't even let you say this. Pet insurance.

Okay.

And I think the other piece too is, you know, a lot of is, you know, what can you do in terms of educational assistance? You know, there have been some changes that have come with the CARES act where you can take the money that you, that you use towards educational assistance and use that for helping employees pay off student debt. I think that's been a really great, interesting benefit that's kind of trended. Again, it, it is hard, it's budget dependent and you know, you're really trying to conserve your cash. But I do have the, I do have the fortune to work with compensation consultants and I think what I'm learning is that just try and be consistent with your increases. Really trying to stay, stay, not try and do these extremes. I think we've really tried to be careful. There's. And the other piece too, especially as when you're a startup is understanding the importance of your equity and how you can get creative there. Because that is the piece that I think a lot of people are going to be interested in and using equity as a really good, a really good retention tool, especially in the early stages.

Can you talk a little bit about that? Like, can we go into depth a little bit about like what that really means?

And yeah, so for a lot of startups, they're, they're really going to want to conserve their cash. So they're going to use their equity. Especially if you're coming in early, they're going to use the equity as a tool. Like you're coming in early, you are getting this, the, these maybe incentive stock options. It just depends on how early you come in. And you hope that down the road that These are, things are going to pay off in the end. I mean, I always say to employees, if the patients win, we win. Right, because it's all about the patients and I think just educating people on the upside. I mean, the market's a little wonky right now, so it's a little tricky. But, but if you truly believe in the science and you believe in what you're doing, then, you know, it'll, it'll come back and, and you know, it'll be a benefit in the end.

And I think that that has to go a long way in helping to build the culture. Right now you're actually invested, not just maybe psychologically, but financially. You' you have skin in the game.

I mean, you have skin in the game.

Do candidates, I mean, this is a very broad question. I'm sure some candidates come in and they totally get it. But do you often find that candidates are confused by that part of their benefits package when you're making offer?

Some are and some are not. Some are very savvy and some will say, you know, what are your outstanding shares? You know, because they want to understand their percent ownership. So I'm telling you, it's like opposite ends of the spectrum. I mean, Karina knows. Karina and I have dealt with enough. You got some research associates, some entry level scientists that are savvy with just with their knowledge of the market and whatnot. And, and they're, they know that they're coming in early and they, they really do want to have that opportunity to, to get in early. Um, so you just, you have to be prepared for both.

So, Tanya, where do you see yourself in the next phase of your career? It sounds like you're really happy at VOR right now, but like 10 years down the line or you dream retirement, what do you see coming down?

Traveling. I want to travel.

Yeah.

Travel and volunteer. I can't, I can't sit still. I. I love what I do. If, if. I think somebody asked me a long time ago, if you won a million dollars or whatever, you won the lottery, would you keep working? And the answer is absolutely. I love what I do. Yeah, it's so fun.

Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. If money is no object, I see it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I pick the hours and all that, but I would. I. I love what I do.

So we talk with a lot of baby biotech builders who are much earlier stage. What is a great piece of advice you might give somebody who is just entering into their new venture?

So one, if you're a founder, bring HR in asap. Even if it's for a couple hours a week, just do it because it's going to set a really great found for you. If you're an HR person coming into a small company, just get to know your people and understand what makes them tick. Get their trust as soon as you can. It's going to make your life so much better. So do the little thing just to earn trust and you will be set just in terms of buy in understanding the culture. It's. It's so. It's just so easy, you know, do what you say you're going to do and earn trust and you'll be successful.

It's like really good life advice.

Yeah, right.

It's.

But it's, it's amazing how it doesn't happen. I mean, I'm just. For me, the piece that, that resonated that I told you all earlier was I can't believe you're in hr. You're so nice. And it's just not about being nice. It's just about being a good listener and, you know, doing what you said you're going to do goes a long way.

Tanya, what's your favorite book?

Our women's group at Vore read Lessons in Chemistry. So if any of you all have so good. So good. Read the book before you see the series. And a nonfiction that I just finished that I think is great for any team is Boys in the Boat.

Oh, is that. They're making a movie out of that, too.

Yes, they are. It's coming out on Christmas. And full disclosure, my daughter's a rower, so she wanted to read it together. I listened to it because it's fabulous, but it's dense. But there is a tremendous amount in there, just about teamwork. Because I think with rowing, it's everybody. Everybody has to be on the same page, right? Versus, like football. Or you can have your couple of your stars rowing. One person screws up. Everybody's. Everybody's held accountable. So I think those would be my two books.

Those are awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah, we'll add those to the list. You can grab the list. We'll put the link in the show notes if you want our full list of books. And Tanya, where can our audience connect with you if they want to learn more or they want to be in your world?

Yep, sure. So I'm on LinkedIn. So Tanya, Philip, 1L, 2P's, no S. And you also, you can see our website. Find me there. Vor. The VOR website is part of the leadership team.

Excellent. We'll link all that in the show notes. And this was so fun. I always love chatting with you and I really think that you are going to be inspiring a few people to hopefully jump into the HR space. We need. We need that. We need passionate people like you.

Wow. It's an absolute pleasure to spend time with you.

Thank you.

All right.

And that's it. Thank you for being.

Thanks.

Building Biotechs is brought to you by Recruitomics Consulting. You can find Building Biotechs in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Make sure to click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes and join our mailing list for a weekly dose of biotech news and a podcast overview. And if you need to install a recruitment engine that saves time and money for your growing company, reach out for a free strategy session. I'm always happy to share my expertise and show you techniques to simplify your hiring process and maximize returns. On behalf of the team here at Recruitomics Consulting, thanks for listening.