167 - Courage to Leap & Lead with with Lisa Earle McLeod, part 1

You've got courage to leap, courage to lead.

Be brave and be bold. Let it roar.

Welcome to the Courage to Leap and Lead podcast, where each of our guests share the stories of courage that helped them become powerful leaders. Before we start today's show, please remember to visit courage-consulting. Where you can find all the episodes and other excellent resources, all at courage-consulting.com. Now, here's your host, Leadership Courage Coach CB Bowman.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. It is CB Bowman. I'm so excited today with my guest. You know what? I'm not going to tell you why I'm excited. You're just going to have to listen and see. So I just wanna introduce Lisa McLeod. Lisa, welcome. Oh, wait, wait a second. True reveal, we're sisters. Okay, I'm letting you process that. NMG 100. So with that, I'm welcoming Lisa. Lisa, I'm so glad you're on today.

It's such a pleasure to see you.

I was—

when you said we're sisters, I was like, is this gonna be like some Jerry Springer Show where it's like, who's the sister?

the daddy.

Like, I don't know.

I said that with Marshall. I said, this is my— oh, and let me introduce you to my grandfather.

You know, it's a crazy world. You never know.

He loves to tell people. That made him crack up, and that was the beginning of the show. So Lisa and I belong to this great, great group of people called MG100, which stands for Marshall Goldsmith 100, of very special people, which has now grown to like 350.

I do not tell people that. I tell them it's Marshall Goldsmith's top 100 coaches in the world and I'm in. I do not tell them I was number 251. No one needs to know that. So button it, CB.

Now you know why I'm so excited to have this guest on today. So let's rock it out. She's written 2 books and I've only written one. I'm so upset about— actually, she's written more than 2. 5. Okay, Lisa, let's not— you know, I did like you until you mentioned that just now.

Look, I start— I— my first book I did instead of having a third child, so I'm claiming it, baby. Yeah, I was on the fence if I could have another child or write a book, and I chose writing a book. I swear to God, I probably chose the one that was more painful.

Giving birth. Oh yes, after writing my first one, I'm like, I don't know if I have another one in me.

You do.

Okay, so first, let's get to know Lisa. You know, I always like to start there. Lisa, tell us about, you know, give us the inside scoop. How did you grow up? Tell us about your parents. What's the deal here?

So I was born in Washington, D.C., in Washington, D.C. My parents are native Washingtonians. They went to George Washington University. My grandmother, I don't know if this is censored or not, was a baller before women were allowed to be that. She ran Catholic University's nursing program.

Wow.

So having said that, I actually grew up kind of, I would say middle class. My parents were kind of at the bottom of the middle class, you know, clutching the bottom rung when I was little to by the time I was in college, they were solid. You know, but one of the things that I did not realize that I got growing up, when my parents, um, were expecting my brother, they moved out to Arlington. Well, if you know anything about the Washington, D.C. area, you know that Arlington is like a super expensive hotspot. But I'm so old, it was out when they moved there. But one of the things that I got that I did not know was unique was I went to very diverse schools. And by very diverse, I mean public school. I mean, really diverse. I had 2 kids in my high school class whose fathers were congressmen. And I had a lot of kids on free lunch.

Wow.

So, and we were just all in class together.

Wow.

And probably because I was kind of somewhere in the middle, I knew that there were rich kids And I knew that there were poor kids. And I probably wasn't that self-conscious about it because I was neither. But I didn't realize, like, from elementary school on, we had a kid in our class whose parents ran a Greek restaurant. They had immigrated from Greece. I had, you know, a Hispanic family in my— that went— we went to school with whose parents, like, work in the back of a restaurant. We had kids that lived in the projects and we had, you know, affluent kids in it. And it was this, I didn't even know what a gift that was. I had no idea. But I see upon reflection, it shaped my worldview. And I also see the thing that shaped my worldview was, we, you know, people will make a comment about, well, it's government work. I didn't know until I was like 30 that that was an insult. Because I thought I went to school with a bunch of kids. Like I went to school with some kids whose dad worked at the CIA. And somebody's mom was like a docent at the Smithsonian. Somebody else worked at the Mint. And I was like, oh, that's, that's a noble endeavor, working for your country. So I— and I— my parents, you know, grandfather was military. So I had grew up in this little diverse bubble that I know from reconnecting with some of my friends of color, everyone did not experience as free to be you and me as I did.

Yeah.

But it was more so than most people of my age.

Yeah, yeah. And so, so what happened after that, after school? Because I'm trying to get to how the heck did you get to where you are now?

So I'll tell you one of the defining events of my youth. I was— when I was 15 years old, I'm the oldest of 4, and when I was 15 years old, my younger brother died very suddenly of menococcal meningitis. It's every mother's nightmare, and it was a life-changing event for me, um, because when you're young, you know, you think only grandparents die. You don't—

How old were you when this happened?

I was 15. I was in 10th grade, and my parents were very ill-equipped to deal with this. I don't know that anyone would be well-equipped, but they didn't even know that they weren't equipped. So like There was no, okay, you're gonna go to a counselor. Okay, get our aunt in here. Like none of that, the things that you would know to do. And so one of the things that I remember very well was being an object of pity at my high school.

And how old was your, your brother at the time?

He was 6 when he died. So we had, we had 4 children. And he was 6. And he was the third, and my younger sister was 2. Um, and so the thing that people don't talk about, when you lose a sibling, you also lose your parents.

Mm-hmm.

And our family had some issues before that. One of the advantages of being the age I am, when your parents are dead, you can kind of let the beans spill because you're not worried about them listening. And there were some issues in our family, most with my mother, who I have great empathy for. But if you are prone to depression and rage and all these other things, Losing a child doesn't make that better.

No, no.

But the thing that I remember was being this— going back to school and that feeling when you walk into the cafeteria and you know everyone's talking about you. And I knew that this is not teenage insecurities. I knew it was real. And there was this one girl Who— and I've since told her about this— who marched across that cafeteria, 15 years old. I don't know what her parents had told her, but marched across that cafeteria, put her arm around me, and said, I'm so sorry to hear about your brother. I'm going to stand here beside you, and if there's anything you need, you just tell me. 15 years old.

Tell us about her parents.

Oh, I didn't— and I knew her, but not well. I didn't know her parents, you know. And at a time, you're 15, you're not going, you must have the best parents on the planet. Yes, but it was a life-altering event for me, not just losing my brother, obviously, but upon reflection Seeing how words— one person can step into a situation and say words that make you feel less alone. And it was never— I, I didn't realize I was learning that lesson at the time, but I became someone who is very good at just saying the words and stepping in. And not being worried. And I remember years later, I mean, I'm a full-ass grown adult, and a family in our neighborhood lost a high school student, lost their child to a cancer. And so a bunch of neighbors were getting together and they were saying, we are going to drop some food off. And they were like, well, I don't want to bother them. And I'm like, I'm calling bullshit on y'all. What you don't want is you don't want to step into this space with somebody else's sorrow. That's what you don't want.

Yeah.

And guess what? Their daughter died. There's nothing you could say to make it worse. But it, it helped me. I didn't realize, probably growing up with a raging mother and this circumstance, just watching how ill-equipped not just kids, teachers were. They didn't know what to say to me. They didn't know what— I, I can see now looking back that it's no coincidence. That I ended up in helping people sell themselves, in emotional intelligence, just in helping people parse out the emotions and say the words and say the right thing and not say the wrong thing. Looking back, I can see this lifetime of experiences, and maybe I already had a propensity to that, but that was a life-altering experience. So how I ended up Down— I live in Georgia now. And how I ended up moving from Washington, DC was I wanted to go to college somewhere away, because I didn't want to be the girl whose brother died anymore. So I went to University of Georgia where I didn't know a soul, so I could just be away.

I have to let that sit. You know, it's interesting because I just interviewed Mark and Jason about teen suicide. And I did not understand the stress of today's children. I'm like, seriously? My mom would have said, you're stressed? Boom, back of the hand, get over it.

Yeah, go outside.

Yeah, go outside, go read a book. Yeah. So hearing that a child came over to you with such wisdom, right? It makes me really understand that today's children, they have a whole hell of a lot of shit to deal with.

They do.

Be able to deal with it in a way that emotionally impacts somebody as an adult.

Right. That I'm carrying this template of courage and empathy and compassion around with me from age 15 because I saw it. Yes.

Yeah.

And I, and I felt it. And I wasn't standing there awkwardly in the cafeteria with everyone staring at me like this person came up to me and put her arm around me. I mean, my gosh.

And it's also, I never thought about a child losing another child in the family. I mean, I lost my sister, but that was before I was born. How that affects the child, the surviving child, right, in terms of their environment. I have never thought—

Changes overnight. Because no matter who your parents were before, they're not that. They're not that anymore. And my parents also didn't have a spiritual center to lean on. And I mean that literally and emotionally. And so there weren't that group of caring adults to come around us and say, okay, parents, you're not thinking right.

Okay, Lisa, how did you figure this all out? Did, did you figure it out as an adult? No, you had to figure it out before. Now that I asked the question, because you moved to a different state to go to school, how did you— I mean, it boggles my mind at 15 that you realized what was going on.

Yeah, don't give me too much credit. I knew I didn't want to be the girl whose brother died.

Yeah, but even that is a lot of real—

Yeah, to say, I don't like being perceived this way. And it was funny because I went back to my high school class reunion, and I have no judgment on a bunch of 15-year-olds that don't know what to do. No judgment. But I went back and I thought, I wonder if that was— you know how teenagers always think everything's about them? I thought, I wonder if I made that more of a stigma than I thought. And one of the women came up to me at my class reunion, 40 years, and said, you know, I'll always remember when your brother died, and that was just so scary, you know.

Oh.

And, and so I realized I did not imagine this. This actually happened. So I'll tell you something else. So I've always been good at reading people. And I'll tell you one time when I realized it, which is related to my brother dying. We had a new girl in school, and I, prior to my brother dying, I was always someone that, that I had my own experience with being the new girl one time. So I was always really good at knowing what that felt like. And we had—

Yeah.

Come sit by me. I'm gonna— let me see your schedule. Let me tell you who to look for in all these classes. I'll see you at lunch. Like, Like, I was game on, you know, could have had a future as a greeter. So I meet this girl, she's transferred from Texas, which wasn't uncommon because a lot of people's dads that were military ended their career in Washington.

Mm-hmm.

So you get these kids that have bounced around to a lot of different places. So she comes in, she's from Texas, and we are sort of like the preppy ponytailed girls. She has like Texas hair, and people are like, what the— hairspray and everything. But you know, I've been— we had a lot of different types in our school. So I was like, come sit by me. So she sits by me. I befriend her. I say, come look for me at lunch, because I know walking into a new cafeteria. So she comes, sees me, eyes light on me. I'm like, come sit at our table. It's gonna be great. So I say, I'll see you again. at 6th period, which is drama class. By the way, Sandy Bullock was in my class. My kids can't believe— Huh?

Get out of here.

Yeah, got kids can't believe we're the same age. Anyhow, worked out better for her than me. But, um, so this young girl, you know, from Texas comes into drama class. And you had to walk across the stage to come sit down in the seats. That's where we did our class.

Yeah.

And I see her walk across looking for me because I've told her, I've marked on her schedule the classes to meet me in. And I see her look across and I realize someone's told her. I can see it.

Oh, about your brother? Yeah.

And I can see it in her face. Someone's told her. And it's not like someone's told her that I'm a raving drug addict and she's afraid of me or anything. I mean, this is a fairly nuanced thing, but I realize she looks at me and I'm like, there it is, that little bit of pity. Yes, I see it. I, I can see it from across literally a stage as she's walking and looks at me. And I see her eyes have changed.

What did you do?

That was probably one of the moments, the fact that I remember it. That was probably one of the moments when I realized I need to get out of here.

I'm out of here.

I, I'm not going to be this person. And sadly, I remember going to college, and after you meet people in college, especially in a dorm freshman year, you're all chatting it up. And it's not a first question, but as you get to know people, oh, do you have any brothers and sisters?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

At that age, it's a more common question. And I remember proudly— this breaks my heart now— saying I have one brother and one sister. And I remember thinking, I'm not the girl whose brother died anymore.

Yeah.

No, I think— I can be whoever I want. Nobody knows that that happened to me.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wait, so what happened to your mom and your dad?

They stayed married. A lot of times people don't. My mom, my mom never got over it. And when I say never got over it, I'm a mother myself now. I have great empathy for her. And I understand why she never got over it. But, um, when I say never got over it, she, I don't think, ever experienced happiness again. And when my sister, who was much younger than me because there were these other kids in between, my sister was a senior in high school, my mom got breast cancer and died.

Hmm.

And she was 53. And so I always say she got out of her marriage the only way a Catholic can. Girl, what does it mean? But I have great empathy for her. My dad used to always say about her, I think she's 10 IQ points too high for suburbia. He was not wrong. She was a high school AP math and AP chemistry teacher who probably should have been a doctor or scientist.

God, I love these expressions. Okay, so what happened to you after college?

So, and my dad, you ask, my dad had a whole other life after my mom died. My dad got remarried. His career took off. He had a whole other life. He just passed away a few years ago. He had a second marriage. Somehow my dad managed to fit 2 25-year marriages in one lifetime. It's pretty impressive.

Kudos to him.

Yeah. So he, you know, got married and had a whole other life. So what I did, my path to get where I am is 2 parallel paths that have finally come together in my life. Um, when I was in college and I did not have a lot of direction from my parents, because I see upon reflection my mom was falling into a black hole and my dad was trying to save himself. So again, no judgment. But I knew that I grew up a little on the poor side. It felt kind of poor. And so I knew that I wanted to be more successful and be successful in my own right, you know, make money. So I decided that through varying jobs in college, I want— a pivotal moment for me was I was in a job interview with the college newspaper and they were interviewing for sales reps to sell advertising and for writers. And I said, well, what do they pay? And they said, well, sales rep job, you can make about $100 a week. A writer, you got to write like 5 stories for free and then you get $5 a story. And I was like, that sales rep thing. Yeah, tell me about that. Because my— I, I was fortunate my parents paid my tuition, but I had to like fund, you know, Yeah. So I went into sales. And when I say my life has been 2 parallel paths, it's so clear at this age that I was always interested in sales. I was actually a very good salesperson. I was actually a very caring salesperson and did really well. I went to work for a big company, went to work for Procter Gamble, did well there, moved into sales leadership, then left there, went to work for a consult— a small consulting company, ended up being the VP of sales. But the parallel path was always this Meaning, purpose. Why am I here? What, what, what am I doing with my time here on this earth that matters?

Yeah, I'm not surprised given your history.

Yeah, right. Not surprising. And so it wasn't until the last— in my 40s, I would say the last 20 years— where that really came together and I was able to bring together my very practical knowledge of sales and how companies work and how to, how to drive a sales team with this larger purpose element. And it turns out they weren't as binary as I thought they were.

So audience, now you know the secret as to why I'm so excited that Lisa is on the call. I am Admittedly, the worst salesperson in the world. I've had jobs in sales and I failed miserably. Miserably. I don't even know how I have a successful association now. I just— sales to me is like chalk on a chalkboard. And I have been through all the selling programs the IBM, that this, that. And I've been told millions of times, when you love it, it's not sales. And think about it as marketing. Think about it as providing a need, providing— I hate it, hate it, hate it. To meet somebody who's written a book about being— several books on how to be the best And who actually is successful in sales. Bowing down to you. Kudos. And a woman at that. I want every secret. I want to go from 0 to 1,000 in being able to sell. Tell me.

So the thing I'll tell you, I'm going to challenge you. You're not the worst at sales.

Oh, I am.

Oh, we're— oh, we're getting to the bottom of this, honey. So here's the thing.

First, first, show your latest 2 books, please.

So I am the author of Selling with Noble Purpose, which was my breakout book. I wrote it 10 years ago. This is the updated version that we just did last year. And then I also wrote Leading with Noble Purpose. And it is about— both of these books are about the same principles. Organizations with a purpose bigger than money who truly want to improve life for their customers, and salespeople who truly want to improve life for their customers, outperform people just focused on the money. And the research could not be more clear. The reason a lot of people think they are bad at sales is because sales is one of the few professions that we have allowed to be defined by the people doing it badly. So our image of salespeople is pushy, aggressive, out for themselves. The research tells us there's plenty of those out there, but they are not that successful. What we found in this anecdotal study I first did 12 years ago, which launched the noble purpose movement, was the salespeople whose true north was improving life for the customers outperformed the salespeople who were just focused on targets and money. And the money follows the meaning. And that's the important thing, that when people think I'm bad at sales— now, if you're a poor communicator, if you get nervous in front of other people, like, all those things will make you bad at sales, to be real. But most of the time, the reason people are bad at that is because their boss is in their ear saying, close it, close it, close it, close it. That's what makes them bad at sales. If their boss was in their ear saying, how can we make life better for this customer? What are this customer's biggest challenges? How can you solve for those? When we shift leaders to coaching on that, the revenue increases. the profit margin increases because now they're not just trying to say, look at me, look at me, buy from me, which results in a very commoditized sale. When the strategic north is customer impact and your business model is priced accordingly, you will make more money. So that's what I would suggest to you, that the reason you have a successful organization is because you are selling with noble purpose.

This is true.

Yeah, because you believe, because you know it's helpful.

Absolutely. However, that aside, so I have my new book, Courage, Sleep, and Lead, and I want to do workshops to help people change failure into success. I have been hemming and hawing making those calls to get those workshops Is I just can't even deal with it.

Okay, so we're gonna do a lifetime thing.

Oh no, we're not.

Oh yeah, we are, honey. So first of all, you're making calls to get the workshops. Take that off the table. Oh, take that off the table.

Okay.

Tell me, as someone who has failed multiple times, my business that I have today was built on the back of a bankruptcy. A personal bankruptcy. Okay, so yeah, yeah, my husband's business.

I believe you. Okay, sorry.

Yeah. Oh yeah, in the two in the recession, the 2008-2009 recession, my husband had a small manufacturing company. It went under, took our life savings with it. So yeah, so you are helping people. To have the courage to overcome, to, to move beyond failure. Is that right?

Helping organizations, yes.

Helping organizations move beyond failure.

Yeah.

Why does that matter?

Oh, one, it increa— so are you asking how— why does it matter that they failed, or why does it matter that they flip?

Why do they need to have this Change. We— I can think of a lot of reasons why they fail.

One, it affects the mental well-being of employees.

Yeah, when a product launch fails.

Yeah, yeah.

Market changes, their self-esteem is wrapped up in their job, they feel awful.

Totally. And their pride in their company.

Yeah.

2, it freezes people in terms of innovation. It freezes people in terms of creativity.

Right, because now I'm afraid, my brain shuts down.

You're afraid. And because they don't want to look bad, they leave the company. Or because they're admonished because they failed, they leave the company.

So, right, because they don't want to show up every day where everybody knows. It's like somebody that cheated on their spouse, they need to move.

Exactly.

They don't need to be showing up there. But, but it, but it's not like somebody cheated on their spouse because—

But, but their, their income is affected because especially if they're on a bonus or a commission, they failed, their income drops, their family's affected.

So when you talk about booking these workshops, You have a different look on your face than when you talk about the people. You have an entirely different look on your face. And so I—

Yeah.

Your whole face lights up when you talk about the people. You become more animated when you talk about, I've got to sell these workshops, you contract. So what if instead of thinking I need to book these workshops, you probably have a good contact list. You just called up, sent an email and said, I'm preparing for my book launch and I'm talking with leaders about the role that failure plays in employee retention, in innovation and employee morale. And I'd just like to have a conversation with you about it. And then if they say this is an issue, this is an issue, you can say, Well, I am doing these workshops if that would be helpful to you.

Drop the mic.

Right. Because you're putting a yes or no workshop decision in front of them before you even had the chance to let them think through why this might be helpful. And if they say, well, we haven't had a failure, well, our people went through a resilience workshop last year. Okay, maybe it's off the table. And you go, so what'd they learn? What about that? I'm doing workshops. What about that workshop was so good that I could do it mine? Then there's no pressure. And they will feel you showing up differently, because what I want your potential corporate clients to feel is what I just felt when you described it to me. And you can't get there if you start with, do you want the workshop or not?

Wow. Wow. What a difference. It feels different.

It— your face looks different because, uh, you probably love calling people up and talking.

But now I will.

But I mean, don't you love talking about this is what failure does to us? This is how it affects us. How is it affecting your team? What examples have you seen? Wow, this is a big issue. Because the conversation is not, do you want to buy the workshop or not? The conversation is about the subject that they care about, which how their people are experiencing this and you have the expertise. And so that's the mistake that almost every seller makes is that they're leading with the thing they want the person to buy. Instead of opening the conversation with what's going on with that person. And there may, may or may not be an opportunity to buy. Based on what you've told me, I'm pretty confident most people need this. And so that confidence that I'm going to call up 10 people and it's probable that 8 of them, you know, probably need this.

Well, especially with the quiet quitting, right? What's behind that, right?

But I mean, you're so knowledgeable about having this conversation, and I— and that's the thing, we do it to ourselves because you know your outcome and you don't like having to sell this thing, this push people towards an outcome. But if you reset your true north Your true north when you wrote the book was to help people with this issue. Don't change your true north.

Wow, wow, wow! I am stunned. I have never heard it put that way. No wonder why you have a bestseller list.

Thank you.

All the books you've written, check. Top of the bestseller list, check, check. So which of your books would you recommend, assuming people have a time crunch? Which of your books would take you through what you just did for me?

Selling with Noble Purpose, which is if you are in a spot where you need to sell yourself Sell a product, if you are running a sales team, that's the book you should read.

Put it up.

And it's interesting when we chose the subtitle for this book. So the title is Selling with Noble Purpose, which is just what we talked about. The true intent is improving someone's life. But what the subtitle captures is drive revenue and do work that makes you proud. And if you— I was at a program, um, 20 years ago. I'd written my first book called Forget Perfect, and I— Marianne Williamson was the speaker, and I went up to her afterwards, little first-time author with my book. She takes one look at her book and goes, wow, you must have had a really critical parent. And I was like, oh my God, how did you know that? She goes, look at any author's book. The title tells you what they struggled with.

Yeah.

And so the reason I'm bringing that up is this subtitle is Drive Revenue and Do Work That Makes You Proud, and it is combining those 2 lanes of achieving financial commercial success, making money and making meaning. And so the thing that I worked on consciously for the last 15 years, unconsciously for the previous 15, was bringing those 2 things together because we think we have to choose between making money and making a difference. And we don't. If you are selling something, if you are part of a company that improves people's lives in any way— one of our clients is an air conditioning company, and you might think, well, how's that? I don't want to live my life without it. Another one of our companies is a plumbing company, same thing. So I mean, if you're selling a widget, a software that helps people do better accounting, I mean, you're selling something that literally has the power to change people's lives, this being able to get over failure. But even down to the, you're selling tennis shoes that help people run and stay fit, you know, whatever it is, if you're selling something and your customers are buying it, Unless it's like crack, chances are you are actually helping them.

Lisa, do you have classes for regular people like me?

Regular? You are far from regular. We have a number of our courses on LinkedIn Learning. We have a Selling with Purpose. We have a Selling with Empathy. I say we. Elizabeth Letardo is my business partner. She is, um, an industrial and organizational psychologist who specializes in creating engaging training programs, and she is also my daughter.

Well, I mean, that's cheating right there.

I know, I know. I've— and because we have different last names, um, people will say, how did you ever get someone as smart and talented as her? And I'm like, I grew her. I literally grew her. She's her own woman. She owns all her own stuff. But I'm like, I'm like 100 years ago where the farmer's like, I'm gonna have 4 strapping sons to farm these fields for me.

Love it.

It's the ultimate long game.

I find somebody like that.

Yeah, it is the ultimate long game. I didn't know that that was the game I was playing when I was doing it.

And by the way, everyone, long game. Dori Clark, a friend of mine.

Yeah, yeah, Dori played a lot of long games better than me, but on this one, I win.

I win. I love it so much. So, okay, so other than the LinkedIn class— and by the way, the LinkedIn class is same name, Selling with—

Yeah, yeah, there's— if you just Google, go on LinkedIn Learning, and we do a lot of programs for companies. So, but they tend to be bespoke programs with their content, their sales team. We, the work that we do really falls into 3 buckets. One is a lot of companies struggle with activating purpose. They either don't have a purpose and we help them create it, or they have one and it sits on their website and doesn't do anything. So we help them activate it across the entire organization. So we have some big clients we've done that for. Like Hilton is probably one of our biggest clients where they have this purpose to fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality. And they need every single member of every single Hilton hotel to bring that to life. So it's a big job, but they are doing it. I love them. Then, so that's one part of our business. Another part of our business is working with sales teams on sales training and sales coaching. And then another part of our business is I'm an executive coach. And it's usually around emotional engagement, commercial success, lifting up a workforce around a shared sense of purpose.

So if somebody wanted to know more about how to find your company, where do they go? Because your name is only on your tag for Zoom.

Yeah, just Google Noble Purpose. You'll find me.

Really? Wow.

Yeah.

So my puppy chiming into the conversation.

Well, I love this new world that we're in. I don't have a baby crying in the background, although I— the first 10 years of my business I did. But yeah, Noble Purpose was— it's interesting because that I knew when I landed on that phraseology. which was about 15 years ago, I knew that it was important that it be noble purpose and not just purpose. And so we went through the process and trademarked it for workshops and speaking and articles and books and all that, because I knew that I couldn't just say purpose. I needed something to really put a stake in the ground.

I just realized that we are out of time. So I'm going to say to the audience, which I love, we're gonna do part 2. So hold on. Okay.