About the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches - Episode # 1

We are now live. Hey Jordan, I am so glad that this happened with you.

I totally understand.

So everyone, this is CB Bowman and I am interviewing Jordan Goldrich, who is a member of the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches. And we just want to talk casually about his experience in joining the Association. And we're laughing because we had such technical issues starting today, and I could, I could see that my lips are moving at a different speed than I'm speaking. So—

Oh, interesting. They look fine to me.

It's the red lipstick. It's a distractor. So Jordan, tell us about your experience being a member of Well, ACEC is an incredible organization.

It's the first time I've ever felt like I've been a member of a tribe. And, uh, I, I want to say, I— there, there are really a number of reasons why, um, but you're one of the big ones. I, I still remember, I still remember calling you. I forget how long it's been, maybe 6, 8 years ago, and— I heard about ACEC and I wanted to talk with you. I thought it would be a 15-minute conversation. An hour and a half later, we got off the phone because I was— we were just having this great conversation about what is coaching and, you know, your background in marketing and all the stuff that you're doing. So a big piece of why I joined is to support your mission. And Part of that is that we had the same vision that executive coaching is more than asking questions to bring out someone's inner knowledge and inner wisdom. It is that, but also the best executive coaches in the world are what you now refer to as enterprise-wide business partners, but they have business and leadership background. And they're able, when appropriate, to teach models, processes, and strategies. And I don't think anybody wants an executive coach who can't do that. So that is the main reason. Even if I got nothing else out of it, is getting that message out that executive coaching is different is important to me. So that's number one.

Yeah.

You ready to hear some more or?

Yeah, yeah. But I think, I think that the big difference too is that these days we hear so many different, uh, labels put on various practices in the, in the space.

Yes.

Because that is kind of like a level above a Master Coach. So tell us about your experience in the Association.

Well, my experience in the Association is, is that the Association is comprised of people who are coaching at the top level of various organizations, a lot of them Fortune 1000. And I have just met some incredible people. And it's, it's really, really been nice. And on top of that, I have learned a bunch of incredible stuff. So, you know, one of the things that has happened, um, out of COVID actually is that because we're an international organization, we had these meetings in different places once a year. And what's happened with COVID is that we've started doing all of these virtual meetings. And I've just been getting a ton out of those virtual meetings. There's It Takes a Tribe, which is a group of international coaches getting together once a month for a discussion about whatever is on their mind in terms of, you know, help me with this and being able to put it out. We have our Saturday morning meetings about developing a coaching business. Um, I certainly love being on the various committees. And so really what's happened is I've gotten to build relationships with coaches from, uh, I'm blocking on the country he's from. Uh, Dubai. Dubai. Yes. You knew who I was thinking about?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I, I built a relationship with someone from Dubai. I built relationships with people from England and from Canada and It's, you know, it's just been wonderful.

Do you think it's easy to get into ACEC?

I do not, actually. Well, it depends on what level you're getting into, but any of the levels are not easy. So the, the top level is Master Corporate Executive Coach. And you have to be— you have to have a number of years of experience in leadership. And you also have to have a number of years experience in coaching. And I will tell you that rather than checking boxes, I am on the certification committee. And rather than checking boxes, ultimately, for those of us who have been coaching people at the top levels, it's would we bring this person into our contract? So it's on some levels, it's a judgment call. But we're really looking at, you know, do you have 5 to 7 years of executive experience, or do you— have you written something? Have you published something? It doesn't have to be a book, but can you demonstrate that you are a thought leader in your own way? We also have a level down from that, which is we call the professional level, and that's for people who I think are content experts who don't necessarily want to be coaches, but who just have a lot to bring to the coaching community. And then we have an associate level, which is people who have a lot of business and executive background or leadership background, but may not have a lot of coaching background. So they're not quite a—

Ah, I'm sorry. My 4-legged son has decided to add to the conversation part of, you know, going live or something.

Yeah, you know, I read this great article about how nobody should apologize anymore for this stuff in the age of COVID We just say, thank you for your patience.

Thank you for your patience. And London, thank you for your conversation.

There you go. So where was I? I can't remember.

So you were talking about the various levels of—

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The associate level, which you just described. And then we have the subject matter expert level, which is somebody who's not necessarily a coach, but has contributed a lot to the field.

Yes.

And then we have the professional level.

Ah, I didn't realize that. I thought those two were the same. I know I'm getting educated here.

And so we have the professional level, which is people who are very high in the field but don't necessarily want to have another certification, right?

Ah, okay.

And, and then we have the Master Corporate Executive Coach level, which you serve on the committee as part of the vetting process. And while it seems like it's judgmental, it's really not.

Alert from calendar.

It is, and that's my computer talking to me. me. And so, you know what, Jordan? Um, so, so anyway, so that's part of going live. Um, it— the certification in itself was really designed to point to a client's self-described return on investment in the relationship. So while we— I don't personally believe that coaching can be measured as an ROI, the way that traditional marketing is measured. I do believe that a client can perceive their own return on investment, and the committee looks very strongly at that to see if the client feels that they got their money's worth.

Yeah.

And part of that is, was the client able to make a difference difference in his or her organization so that it could be visibly noticeable and can affect change in the organization? Yes, productivity, like behavior change.

Yeah, so that's a great reminder because the interviews that we do with the references are around that. What was the difference that it made? How did this person demonstrate their knowledge of business, their ability to be a business partner, essentially. So a lot of it is around that.

Yeah. And then there's another component about assessments. They have to be certified in a number of assessments, and those assessments have to be globally accepted, not something you built in your basement or your living room.

Yes.

So, uh, and the— and even the writing that you were talking about before, well, it doesn't have to be a book. It has to be something that has informed the public about what we do, our field, the results, um, the engagements we've had, so that the public gets a chance to really experience What master-level corporate executive coaches do.

Yeah. So for me, some of the examples of that are, have you published some articles? Have you done some training in large corporations on leadership or on something related? And at least, can we at least look at how you think and talk to the public in terms of something you've written in a blog, for instance? So, yes, exactly.

Yeah. So, so before we wrap up, I want you to tell our listeners, what have you personally experienced in ACEC? What growth have you seen in yourself or in the work you do?

Yes. Well, interesting. There are a couple of pieces. One is I happened to meet one of Marshall Goldsmith's partners. Through ACEC. And even though I had read 3 of Marshall's books and I have been doing feedforward with all of my clients forever, my conversation— by the way, that's Frank Wagner, I'll give him a tip of the hat. My conversations with Frank have been so enlightening that I decided it was finally time for me to get certified in the stakeholder-centered model. And part of that was just wanting to get the whole model, and part of it was wanting to be part of that tribe. And also, the other thing that was really interesting, we did a coach supervision. It was sort of a tryout. So it was about 8 sessions, and each of us presented and got supervised as a coach.

Wow.

And I'm not sure I want to admit what I learned about myself in this public meeting. But I got a surprising piece of feedback from the group about how I look at myself as a coach and how I might look at myself differently. And this is, you know, I'm 68 years old. This is it.

Well, look, if you're going to tell that part, tell the part that you learned then.

No, I'm 68 years old. I was in analysis 3 times a week, 5 years. And I wasn't quite ready to learn something new about myself. So that's all I have to say.

Okay.

These are, these are some very insightful, very, you know, and it's, it's like our conversation too. It's, you know, it's, it's friend— it's like this. So It's cool.

It's cool. And I know that this morning we had a meeting, uh, the It Takes a Tribe group, and, uh, we had such a spirited, knowledge-based conversation. We put you on the hot seat, or you put yourself on the hot seat.

I did.

I did.

Well, one of the other things that I really like is getting introduced to your— I forget the exact name of it. What is it? Workplace Racial Equity? Is that the name of it?

Workplace Racial Equality.

Equality. One of the things that happens in ACEC is you get to express and discuss things in a real way. In that meeting this morning, I'll go on. Record with this one. We were talking about what are the best 360s to use, and my observation was that I think that because of the times, uh, and that we're in, and because of the legitimate reaction to what has happened to women in our society, and because it's academics who do it, is that the 360s have started to lean toward what I refer to as soft power. Which kind of doesn't eliminate completely, but really soft pedals some of the more traditional things like competition and even aggression. That, you know, certainly aggression needs to be channeled and can't be out there, you know, just unchanneled. But, you know, we need that. You know, partly, as you know, I've written a book, Workplace Warrior.

Yeah.

And I really talk about warrior spirit. And I think we need people who have an uncommon desire for success, who take charge, who lead their teams, and who accomplish the mission. And that's kind of gotten downplayed in a lot of the conversation if you listen to our thought leaders about leadership. So it's not many places that I could have said that. And by the way, I was one man in a group of 8 women in this conversation. And nobody slaughtered me.

Well, let's, let's tell the whole stories.

All right.

Because you basically said that the attributes of men have been watered down in assessments, that being that aggressive or winning spirit. And with a bunch of kick-ass women on the call—

Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

We basically said, Yeah, Jordan, you're gonna go with that, huh?

But, but, but by the end of the— but by the end of the conversation, I don't know that any— well, I don't know that anybody ended up agreeing with me necessarily. No, no one did. But no, no, Mercedes, Mercedes did. Mercedes and I agreed that it's paradoxical.

Okay.

Okay. So by the way, the purpose of this is to get the feel that we can have these conversations that are so loaded.

Yes.

And, you know, I've had some great conversations with you about social justice and, and race and aggression and all this other stuff. I mean, we're talking about the real stuff in this organization. And if you want to be able to do that, and you, and you are one of those high-level coaches coaching at the top of organizations, This is the organization for you.

Thank you, Jordan. Thank you very much. And we're so proud of people who spend a lot of time putting together a book, which we have many authors as part of ACEC, that I just want to give a shout out to you because I've known you since even slightly before you conceptualized writing a book. And yes, there are many things that you you know, ran by me and topics and things like that. And basically they were all around the aggressive leader.

Yes.

And I'm so proud that you actually got a book out.

And thank you.

It's a really good, solid read. And I'm so proud that you're helping other coaches. So you've really become a coach to the coaches who are working with clients. who are aggressive, assertive leaders and some bullying traits. And you give them great coaching advice on how to help this particular group of people.

Yeah. So if I might, the, you know, our thought leaders who talk about them tend to call them demeaning names like bully, jerk, and certain bodily parts. And I just want to say, I think they've— there is no excuse for demeaning, disrespectful behavior. And on the other hand, I want to say part of it is cultural. So certain ethnic backgrounds in certain countries speak more directly. And then there's another piece of it that has to do with just having your self-esteem wired for success. And I think we need those people. And it's not that they don't need to learn how to speak a different language. But we have really swung towards it's okay to call them demeaning names because we want them to be more respectful. So that's the basis of the book.

I think you want to go back and explain the statement about that's cultural because I think you're going to be called out. People saying, what is he saying? My culture is demeaning? But there's a— you have a greater meaning in what you're saying. And so let's just chat about that for a while.

Yeah, so what I notice is that, you know, I came from a loud New York family and I grew up in a city housing project which had all backgrounds in New York. There were certainly African American, or at the time Black, Puerto Rican.

And now it's Black American.

Black American. So And you know Italian, Irish, and all of our parents used to hang out each other. We were all loud. It was amazing how they spoke to each other. I remember walking down the hall with my friend. I grew up on the ninth floor of this of this building, and my friend says, "I don't think we should go in." And I said, "Why not?" He said, "Your parents are fighting, and I can hear them." Nah, they're talking to each other. So I have that kind of wired into my brain. And so when I moved to St. Louis, boy, did people experience— you know, by the way, people in New York experienced me as a bit abrasive as well. But I've really been working on it for 25 years now. And I think I get told I'm much better. But, you know, I was much more raw about it back in those days. But the bottom line was I had to, I had to learn a whole new language when I moved to St. Louis. And now that I'm out here in San Diego, you know, it's different, but still. So part of what I mean by cultural is when I get around people like you, CB, from, you know, from the East Coast, or I do training in a manufacturing environment or in a construction environment, there's a very different culture around what it's okay to say and how to talk. And so I think we've lost That there's a piece of this that's cultural. So I've worked with people from South America who were working in, for instance, Germany, who were experiencing them as being rude. And, you know, in talking about it, we said, you know, check it out, see how they talk to other people. And it was sort of like, well, wait a minute, they talk to everybody the same way. Yeah, that's how they talk. It's their culture. And so it's not that there aren't some nasty people out there. It's not that there aren't some bullies. The purpose of the book— and there's no excuse for that— but it's that the purpose of the book is really about recognizing that some of this is cultural and that a lot of the people who get experienced as abrasive or as bullies Their core intent is not to hurt people. It's part of their brain wiring and it's also part of their self-esteem. And they, they just feel attacked when things aren't going right. So that's—

Yeah. So I want to encourage everybody to read the book and also just remember that Jordan is not talking about in this book the smaller group of population whose goal it is to harm somebody. What he's talking about is people who come across as strong, aggressive, or assertive people, but with the intent of everybody coming out as a win. Yeah.

So, so let me also fill in that women have it particularly difficult because women who are— have those traits get judged even more harshly than men.

Yes, we do.

Yes, you do.

Yes.

Black women, whoa.

As Frank Wagner likes to say, whoa. Yeah, we get hit with a double whammy. Jordan, thank you so much for coming on and talking to people about ACEC, the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches. And for representing us so well.

Thank you.

I thank you.

Thank you. It's been my honor and my pleasure.

Okay, bye now. And by the way, if anybody wants any information, please reach out to me on LinkedIn. Be glad to ask— answer any questions. And definitely feel free to reach out to Jordan, who's on the Membership Services Committee.

Great.

He loves getting LinkedIn Notes from you all, so reach out to him. Have a great day, and we look forward to seeing you as one of our members. Bye now. It is CB Bowman and Jordan Goldrich. So it's not saying that it has ended, so I'm not sure if we're still on.

Okay.

But, and so we could talk a little bit more about the book.

Oh, you know, I didn't— I, I have to say, I did not expect this to be