CB LIVE! Courage to Leap and Lead with Lane Gardner, part 1 Episode 104

Hello everybody, guess what? It's your favorite CB Bowman, and I'm here with our new platform, Courage to Leap and Lead. And you know, I've had some amazing guests, and I think this is my 100th show. But we need to celebrate.

Yes.

Okay. And of course, as always, I have an outstanding guest. And you know what? She's so outstanding that I'm going to interview her in 2 parts. And so you'll listen to the first part, and then we'll air the second part, not at the same day, This will encourage you to come back and listen to me some more. So we're going to do this in 2 separate parts. The first part, we're going to talk about her life and how she grew up and actually what gave her the courage to do what she's doing now. And then the second part is we'll talk about what she's doing now to make a major difference on the lives of people. People who suffer with mental challenges, shall we say. I met this woman at Renaissance Weekend, not Renaissance Festival. Don't get it twisted, sister. Renaissance Weekend, which is really an American think tank. And you meet the most incredible people, invitation only. And who would have known there were 250 people the weekend that I went. And you know the word synchronicity? My book is coming out on courage at the end of this year, so watch for it. And synchronicity put Lane in my path. She has the most fabulous stories about courage in her life. And the courage she's had to take care and guide others. So without further ado, let me introduce Layne Gardner, my new BFF. Layne, welcome.

Thank you. I am so thrilled to be here. We've been giggling since even before we aired— started airing this, and Oh, I've— you're my new BFF too. We've just, you know, I feel like meeting— us meeting over the summer was definitely, definitely synchronicity, meant to be for sure.

Absolutely. So first, just give us the name of your company, and then we're going to talk about you growing up in this Part A.

So I have a therapeutic arts nonprofit called Thread.

Thread. So you'll get the meaning of Thread as we go along. It's a powerful name. When I first heard it, I said, what, does she teach sewing classes?

Yep.

Yeah, I got it. I got it. It's a powerful name for what she's doing. But let's start at the beginning of time. Tell us, where did you grow up? Tell us about your parents. Give us the 411 on you, Lane.

Well, thank you. It's a— it is a bit of a winding story, but I was born into a military family. My father was a medevac pilot. Um, during the Vietnam War. And he and my mother were high school sweethearts. And, um, I have an older sister who, you know, came along quite a few, you know, 4 years or so before me.

Wait a second, wait a second. Yeah, I can't believe our connection. My family, my dad was in the military. Okay, he's laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery.

So is mine.

Oh my God. Yeah, are they near each other?

We'll have to find out.

And my parents met in high school.

Wow.

Oh my gosh. Okay.

Okay.

Continue.

So anyway, um, you know, my, um, my father was, um, sort of coming and going as he was, um, you know, stationed, um, over in Vietnam, um, you know, taking several tours of duty. And so You know, my early life was a lot of moving around, honestly. We were stationed at different, um, um, different, um, army bases, um, and, um, you know, there was sort of just this element of, um, you know, sort of always on the go, right? Always sort of, you know, having to pick up and, and go. And, um, so, um, you know, unfortunately, when my father returned home from Vietnam, I was about 4 years old, and the trauma that he was in, the, you know, in those days in the early '70s, there wasn't a lot of language, you know, for what soldiers were coming home with. And, you know, now we know it to be unbelievable extreme symptoms of PTSD. And so he wasn't in good shape when he came home. And so My parents divorced within about a year after that. It was, you know, my, my mother really didn't know what she was looking at, you know, as I'm sure so many family members in that era, or even now, you know, you're just not sure what you're looking at and what the symptoms are, what the, what the, the, the effects are that are so extreme. And so—

But life Even, even now— sorry to interrupt you, but I have to say this— even now that we know what it is, it's, it's still ignored. It's still not— hold on, guys, I'm just getting this call. Let me just turn that off. Sorry, guys, I forgot to turn off my phone. Um, but even now that we know the trauma that soldiers go through, every once in a while we'll hear a breakthrough in the news about really how they're being treated.

Yeah.

And it's pathetic.

Yes.

These men and women who are protecting our lives, our country, even the gift of being able to say and think what we want, come back as damaged human beings.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, who could go through that amount of destruction that they are doing for their country and not come back a changed human being?

It's astonishing. You know, I'd never heard that many stories that my father would speak about what he endured during his tour of duties. But I— what I did hear was so harrowing, you know, being shot down, his helicopter, you know, having to float, you know, in the underbrush of a river for a week waiting to be rescued, you know, I mean, that kind of stuff. I know is not a unique story for people who serve, and you know, not to mention, you know, sort of being conditioned to be a killing machine, right? I mean, yes, that has got to that that alone psychologically has got to completely mess with your sense of humanity and your sense of connection to other people. And you know, my father. Was studying to be a doctor at the time that he was drafted, and so he was able to, you know, live out some of that passion by being a medevac pilot and, you know, rescuing the wounded. And, you know, he did pass away at a very young age from, you know, the impact of PTSD, but he was awarded almost every single honor for the military, Purple Heart, Silver Star, you name it, because of the courage. You know, this is a show about courage, right? And the unfortunate part about it was, is that he didn't get to choose that. That wasn't a decision that he got to make to go be in that position.

Yes.

And so I have always felt such sadness, you know, and he's been, he's been gone over 20 years now. But I've always felt such sadness for him, that his life was really taken from him, you know, in terms of, you know, having to serve his country, which, of course, is, you know, an honorable thing to protect, you know, the people of a country. But when I see the fact that it really robbed him of his life. It's hard to square that sometimes, you know.

I've never thought about it that way. But you're absolutely right. It robbed him of his life. It robs others of their lives. And there's no preparation. I mean, think about it. You come from the United States. How much war during their lifetime have they experienced? How much death have they experienced? Killing of another human being. What can ever prepare you for that? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. And all of a sudden, you're placed in a position of defending your country, defending your life, defending your colleagues, surviving. Survival. And I know for my father, he also had to face racism in the midst of that.

Yes.

And I remember being so angry at his funeral, thinking, you robbed him of his being a human being, and now you're going to lay him to rest with honors. How does that square, as you say, Yep. It just didn't with me. It just didn't.

Yeah. And to your point, you know, it, it not only is it such a tragedy for the men and women who are, you know, serving their country, but it also greatly impacts their circles of family and friends. And, you know, I, I never really got to have much of a relationship with my own father. For, you know, many of these reasons, you know, and so I hold that grief, I hold that loss for no fault of my own, right? But it, you know, and this again is, I'm so not unique in this. This is something that so many people go through, you know.

Nobody thinks of the children.

Yeah.

I remember when my father was sent over for the Cuban Crisis. And I was old enough to understand. And I lived for years and years thinking we were going to be bombed because of Cuba. And where will my father be? And he was not reachable.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

So what would— how would my mom take care of us? You know? And I just thought every day, looking in the sky, thinking, Are we going to be hit? You know, such fear.

Fear. Yeah.

You don't realize this happening in the minds of a child.

Yeah. Yeah, it is such an impact, you know, circles and circles and circles of impact, you know, it really does.

And so what happened?

So, um, so we, we, my mother took us back to where her parents lived, where she grew up. And, you know, we spent about 9 months hanging out before my mother remarried.

Yeah.

And my mother remarried someone who ended up being such a source of challenge for me in my life. And she joined a religious cult, you know? And that's been something that I've had to really work with not only just my own experience as a young person and the damaging ways that that impacted me, but also understanding how my mother fell into that, you know.

I was going to ask you that question.

Yeah. So I think that really, you know, I can understand that she was coming out of a very, very painful situation. you know, of divorcing with my father and all of the, you know, unbelievable experiences that she went through in terms of being in that sort of military situation and also the impact that it had on my father. I think there were probably— I think there was probably— oh, sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. This is— I'm so— Okay, how did the impact of your dad's PTSD manifest?

Um, he, he used a lot of substances. There was a lot of addiction issues. There was, you know, sort of this, this grasping at anything outside of himself. There was infidelity. There was, you know, incredible rage, incredible depression, incredible you know, sort of inability to just to be functional, I think, you know. And so I think that, you know, ultimately, what ended up sort of just happening was that everything just broke down, you know.

Yes.

And, you know, I think that for her, I think there was kind of— it was so unexplainable, You know, like I said, I don't think that there was much context for what was going on, you know, in that, in that time. And so, you know, looking back, I think my mother was, you know, searching for answers, searching for something that could give her hope and a reason for things, you know, and to feel protected. And to feel protected, right? And to not have to, um, not have to continue to go through the pain of healing, right? And I think that, you know, this is a whole nother topic for a whole nother session.

Yeah.

But I think that sometimes, you know, this ex— these extreme, um, religious beliefs can pull you out of, um, having to do the work of healing and, and sort of you know, offer these blanket answers, um, which I think is very appealing to so many of us, right? Like, oh, I don't want to have to— I don't want to have to figure this out.

Yes.

Somebody just tell me what to do. Somebody tell me what to do. Tell me what to think. Yeah, you know, and I think that, you know, that's where my mother was at the time. And so, um, you know, that's where we ended up. We sort of got— within a year, we got carted off to this this cult location, which was, you know, sort of set up in a, in the middle of the country, in a, in a, in a, in a college campus is actually where this whole thing was, was sort of—

Did they find her? Or did she find them?

Um, you know, I think that a friend of hers from her hometown was attending these meetings for for this particular organization and invited her. And I think it just was, you know, sort of one thing after the next. You know, I think that through those, through those meetings, I think is how she met my stepfather. And I think it just, you know, it was all, you know, I was very young, it all was very quick and very, you know, I don't have a lot of, you know, day-to-day memories of it. I definitely have some, you know, singular memories here and there, you know. My older sister and I were sort of just tossed into this brand new world. And, um, you know, I can't— I really can't sort of emphasize enough how much damage being in that sort of a cult-like environment does to a person, especially to a young person. Um, you know, just a little side note, I know we'll talk about this more more as we go. But my mother was a musician. And on my mother's side of the family, they were all self-taught musicians. And so alongside all of this, you know, mayhem, which I'll talk about a little bit more, was always this sort of vibrant creativity. And I inherited that from that, you know, from that lineage. And so the reason why I'm bringing it up now is because I sort of came into the world with this, with this you know, vibrant creativity. And so the impact of being a 4 or 5-year-old in this sort of cult environment was absolutely soul-crushing. You know, you're, you're, you're sort of brainwashed into believing that what you think or who you are isn't the right way to be. And you're sort of, you know, cultivated to become something other than yourself, which is, you know, deadly to any person's soul, regardless of the age. When you, when you're not in a place of, you know, feeding your true self and helping that to develop and grow, you know, those, those vibrant, creative, innovative parts of each of us get shuffled away somewhere. And that happened to me over the course of my childhood.

So how was that? For those of us who have not experienced that, um, how was that done? How do you— how is your sense of self stripped from you? How is that sense of learning, um, and exploration taken away from you? Fear.

Fear is the number one strategy that's being used, which is creating a sense of otherness, like we're different from the people out in the world. We are the people who have the right answers, and everybody else out there doesn't. You cannot be a good person without this connection to us and to the divine God that they had created, which, in my opinion, I, you know, I have very— I have a very different belief of the divine, which is not, um, a— an entity that, you know, uses fear to control people, you know. Um, so I— it's really about sort of breaking down this sense that we can advocate for ourselves. We have all— I truly believe, and this is a very hard-won belief over many, many years of of a difficult journey. But I truly believe that we have the wisdom and the answers within us, you know. And it's a, it's a bit of a collaborative journey with mystery or the divine or God or whatever it, whatever that definition is to each of us. But in a cult-like environment, that you, you're absolutely made to believe that you, in and of yourself, can do nothing. You, you in and of yourself are not worthy of love or of being kept safe, you know, or, you know, that you need to go through this belief system or, or this structure of this hierarchy of, of, you know, cult leaders in order to, to be safe, to be taken care of, to be, you know, a value. And it's, you know, it's, it's incredibly scary, and it's incredibly damaging. And, you know, you, it's sort of, you sort of are made to believe that everything outside of this tiny little world is to be feared, is to be, you know, is not, is not good enough for, for what They are trying to teach in this very isolating environment. So, um, so it's very dangerous. And it's very dangerous to the human soul. It's very dangerous to, to anyone who has, you know, a lot to, to offer the world, you know, and I think that we all have innate beautiful gifts in our own way. And that, that destruction of the belief and the uncovering of your own gifts is something that happens in situations like this.

You know, you know, thank you for explaining that. Because I remember Jonestown, as many of us do. And for the life of me, I couldn't understand it. I said, why, why would people want to do this? Yeah. to themselves? Why would they want to kill themselves on mass? And I, I never had an answer.

I think there's an element of, you know, this sort of do or die mentality that gets promoted, which is, you know, you have to live for your beliefs, you have to stand up for your beliefs, there's no there's no black, you know, there's no middle ground. It's only black or white. And, you know, I have a hard time with that kind of thinking. You know, I'm someone who believes in what I've coined for myself as the third road, which is learning about each end of the spectrum, and then what is the best third road that brings in the, in the most beneficial pieces of both sides of the coin. And so in this black and white thinking, in this sort of, you know, almost zealot-like thinking, there is this element where if I'm not living out this belief system that I've been indoctrinated to, to, you know, promote and live you know, and live with, then I can't exist. I have, I have failed my God, I have failed my, my, you know, my mission, my belief. And so I think that's how it happens. You know, that there, there is this sort of almost martyr, martyrdom type mentality that takes over.

Yeah, I, you know, I could see The progression for your mom, I mean, being hit with, this is not the person I married. What, what did I do wrong? I've made some wrong decisions that have created this, et cetera, et cetera. And then coming to meet somebody who says, here's a place for all your answers.

That's right.

And you, you walk into this and it's, Oh, what a relief. I don't have to make any decisions anymore. I'm safe.

Yeah.

And that's the farthest thing from being safe.

Yeah. And I will tell you that after, after, you know, quite a few years of growing up in that environment, that safety, you know, totally unraveled. you know, and it— I mean, obviously, it wasn't safe, you know, but, but my, my mother and my stepfather ended up, you know, actually getting kicked out of this situation because they, you know, it wasn't like they were necessarily like, not believing in the beliefs, but they weren't— they started to, to challenge the way it was being done. And so what happened after we were outed from this is we went into, you know, what I— to me feels like, as somebody looking back at my childhood, is like kind of the dark ages of my life, which was, you know, late elementary through high school, where we were sort of living alongside a mentally ill alcoholic stepparent, who was also a religious zealot.

Now, okay, I'm getting confused.

Okay.

This was your stepdad?

Yeah.

Who had been kicked out? But he was still a religious zealot?

Yes. Yes. And so I think he sort of went into his own, you know, world of delusion about his own beliefs and his own, you know, mission for what he felt he was supposed to, you know, how he was supposed to help the world. And, you know, sort of these kind of grand illusions of saving people, basically.

But I could see where, especially like for your mom, who felt like she was in a protected environment, And she would, she would believe in this, in the beliefs of the system, to now be told, you're no longer going to be protected. You have to leave.

Yep.

You know, and then that probably spun her into a world of, what do I do now? You know, I've been protected, what I believed in, twice now.

Yeah.

Is not reality.

Yeah, that's right.

For her.

That's right. And, and I think that the, um, the early feeling of stability in, in meeting and marrying my stepfather, you know, over time gave way to, you know, what, what were much more deep-seated issues with him in terms of mental health and, and substance use and, and this, this, you know, sort of grandiose religious belief, I think that she, you know, to your point, landed in an even almost even worse situation, you know, on the other side, because there was no safety.

Yeah. And what's ironic is she Ended up with a second husband who turned out to be like the first husband that she left, except now you had the added of the religious beliefs.

Yeah. Yeah.

My heart goes out for her.

Yeah, it was. But you know, what's interesting though? My mother was not solely without power. I will say that, you know, I think that she herself wanted to continue to believe these things.

Sure.

And so I think that she, you know, made decisions to stay in these bad situations because of the beliefs, because of the fear of perhaps admitting that she was wrong, perhaps admitting that she had made a mistake, perhaps of having to face, you know, a lot of difficult experiences that would require, you know, healing and examining her belief system, you know. And so, you know, my— sadly, my mother passed away about a year and a half ago. And I've definitely had to to do some soul searching for, you know, the choices that my mother made and the ways in which she was a great mom and the ways in which she was not a great mom. And, you know, that's kind of a hard space to hold. And I know there's so many of us out there who have been in situations where, you know, their parent made choices that were extremely damaging to the children, but still were good people and offered love and support in the ways that they could. And so, you know, I'm on a healing journey for sure, in terms of, you know, my, my, the way that I feel about my mother and, you know, certainly since her passing. But, you know, the process of being in these situations growing up, for me, ultimately, you know, led me to fight for my true gifts and talents in the long run, because, you know, I sort of had them crushed out of me. And I, you know, eventually got to the point where I was sort of like, You know, I'm done with this. Like, you know, as a teenager, as I was heading off to college, you know, I kind of couldn't handle the, the, the destruction anymore, you know. And so what I ended up—

Now, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

Thank you.

My next question, I'm just going to raise this up a little bit, because it looks like I'm looking down. Um, so when your mom left, she stayed married to her second husband with, with all of this going on?

Yes.

How did you survive all of this? How did she protect you from all of what was going on?

She didn't. So we were subject to that, my sisters and I. the way that I survived was being involved in the arts. And that was really my escape. You know, like I said earlier, my experience, my early experiences of making music with my family as a child, and, you know, this sort of, you know, spontaneous music making that, you know, really taught me about the power of music to rise above all of these difficult experiences and all these differing beliefs and all these, you know, arguments and everything that were happening, I learned from a very early age that music and creativity was a way for people to connect. It was a way for people to feel better. It was a way for people to be together beyond everything that they disagreed on. And so as I got into middle school and into high school, that was my escape. I started getting involved in the local community theater. I started, you know, taking dance lessons. I started taking voice lessons. And, you know, that was a very different world. That, that, that world of the arts is inherently a safe space, right? There's support for everyone to be themselves to express their gifts and talents, to, to connect around these shared gifts and passions. And so that was sort of my salvation, my saving grace, my, you know, my sort of my— the boat that sort of carried me out of these very difficult waters. And that was the way that I survived. I— Yeah.

Started getting involved in that. So you were— how many years were you in the cult?

Um, 6, I believe.

So you were 10 years old when you came out? A 10-year-old, from the time that you went to what, high school? How did— I mean, at 10, did you know that music was the way to protect yourself?

Yeah.

Did you use music then?

Yes, I did. I knew that I could. I could, you know, being, being in the arts, you know, I was doing a lot of performing. And even as a kid, I was singing and you know, community centers and in shows, like community theater. I was, you know, performing at churches and that sort of thing. And I knew very early on that that gave me a bit of like a safety cushion, that if I was, you know, singing and, you know, making people happy with my creativity, then I got a little bit of a— I don't want to say a free pass, but I definitely had a little bit of wiggle room. to, to, you know, um, have support. My mother would take me to these lessons. My mother would take me to these performances. You know, my family would come and see the performances. And so, you know, it definitely gave me a little bit of, of, um, I hate to say it, but like a little bit of like a free pass. Um, only in that way. Only in that way. Yeah. You were allowed to sing and Um, well, there were performances of, you know, these, these very curated, you know, religious, um, plays or whatever that I, I do remember participating in some, um, when I was there. But it was really that, um, you know, um, my mother, I think, kind of was going back to music for herself to help herself feel better, um, after we had you know, left the cult, she started writing some music. And I think that it was kind of just everybody, you know, kind of had this space for music in our lives, even though all of this insanity was still ensuing. It was a bit of a safety net for sure.

What fascinates me, Lane, is how somebody at the age of 10 and younger made the connection between happiness through music and despair through being in the cult? How does one at that young age mentally make a connection that this is my road? For saving myself?

Well, the thing that comes to mind for me is something that I think, you know, most people can relate to, is when you're in a dire circumstance, you have to search within yourself for what, what can you, what do you have access to, to help yourself, right? If you're in a dire circumstance, you, you you do that. You, you see, you look around and you look within and you say, what, what do I have here? What, you know, from a place of desperation, from a place of, of lack of safety. And I think that that's how, as a young person, I just had to search for what is going to help me. What's gonna, you know, how am I going to stay alive, literally, you know. And I searched I think, within myself to, to, to find that I had these gifts and talents. And that was what I was going to use to get myself through. And we do that as people, right? We look for the tools that we have within ourselves.

Not necessarily. Because there are many people who I'm going to say are not as fortunate as you to be able to look inside and say, what can I pull out to save me? I mean, that, that is— that was a breakthrough event for you that many people don't have the opportunity. They, they look inside and they say, there's no, no place for me to go. There's no place for me. to grab onto. There's no lifeboat.

Mm-hmm.

That I have. So I believe that yours was an exceptional experience and opportunity, an exceptional thing that you were able to do for yourself. It took exceptional courage to be able to say, I know I have within me something that will save me. I need to find it. That, my dear, is courage at the age of 10. Come on. Yeah. And actually even younger than that, because, you know, 4 years prior to that is when you were bought into the cult. That— I wish there was a way that you could say to people who cannot find that strength, this is how you find it.

Well, I think we will get to that. Because I do believe, you know, and as we're alluding to, this has become my life's work. Right? And this— I have been doing this for many, many, many years, and it's evolved and grown. I do believe— and I've worked with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of young people and with adults— and I do believe that each of us has that lifeline somewhere within us, and it's different for each of us. It doesn't have to be a musical talent. It's just something. that is our true essence, that has strength and has courage. And, you know, I do think that with the support to, to uncover that, that we, we, each of us has that beautiful, beautiful gift within us that's unique to us.

I think I totally agree with you. I think where I'm going is Where do you find the strength to say enough, as you said before, and I'm going to find the answer? That's the critical point.

Yeah.

So many are missing. We would not have the turbulence that we have in this world. We would not have the incredible upsets swing of mental illness, the recognition even of mental illness. If people were able to do that, that is the secret sauce. Right?

Yeah.

And how do, how do we direct that? Certainly the people that you touch in your work have developed through your work, That recipe. But how do, how do we get that recipe out to the masses so that they are willing to go and get the ingredients, put them together, bake them?

Yeah.

Have solution in their life. And with that, audience, I'm gonna say stay tuned to part 2. But Before we go, Lain, I'm going to put you on the spot. Okay. And I'm going to ask you to sing us out of this episode of Talking to Lain Gardner.

I will tell you what I am going to sing is a song that I'm actually recording tomorrow for a beautiful, beautiful friend of mine who passed away over the spring. And before he died, he asked me to sing this at his memorial service. And I think that it's so apropos to what we're talking about now, because I think that each of us, as much as we have gone through, there are elements of our lives that there is a component of grace that we experience that carry us through such difficult times. So I will end with Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a soul like me. I was, was lost, but now I'm found. 'Twas blind, but now, now I see.

Stay tuned to part 2.