CB LIVE! Courage to Leap and Lead with Charlene Wheeless, Episode 114

Hello everybody, it's CB. You know, I had a teaser at the end of interviewing Charlene because I want to talk about her book. And so I'm so glad that she's able to continue the conversation. And let's just rock right into it. Charlene, thank you for coming back.

Of course, happy to be here again.

We had such a rich conversation. I really appreciate it. If anybody hasn't seen part 1, you need to see it, right? You need to listen to it. It's, um, filled with all kinds of life information mixed with career information, mixed with heart and intellect. So With that, Charlene, I know you've written a book.

Yes, yes, I have.

Show it to us. Happy to.

Let me see that.

You're Not Enough.

You Are Enough.

You Are Enough. Sorry, that, that was— was that a Freudian slip? Meaning, for me, uh, You Are Enough: Reclaiming Your Career and Your Life with Purpose, passion, and unapologetic authenticity.

Yes. Wow!

That's a mouthful.

It is a mouthful.

You are enough. That's a very powerful statement. And you know, audience, that slip that I made—you've kind of wonder—is that the imposter syndrome coming out in me? Um, um, um.

Hmm.

I better think about that now. And realize you are enough. So what made you write this book? Because I know writing my own book now, it's a heavy lift to write a book.

Right, right. So I didn't know I was going to write a book. Right? Some people dream of writing books. I didn't. This comes off of— this is all part of coming off of my, my healing from cancer. When I left the corporate world, I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't have a plan, which is so unusual for an executive, but I didn't have a plan. And I wondered, what am I supposed to do now? And, you know, in our first interview, for the first part, I talked about, you know, I'm a firm believer that when something bad happens to you, that you have a responsibility to turn it into something good. And so good for others. And so when I had cancer, I never asked the the question, what am I— why do I have cancer? I only ask the question, God, please tell me what I'm supposed to do with it, because I don't know. But I believe that he brought me through for a reason. I left corporate in January of 2020, and sometime between January and February, I woke up in the morning and I said, I'm supposed to write a book.

Huh?

I thought, yeah, I'm supposed to write a book. I thought, well, I'm going to write a book about cancer. Then I thought, wait, I have much more to say than just cancer, and it all applies about life. Then I thought, I don't know how to write a book. How does someone write a book? I had gone to New York and I was waiting by train. I was waiting for the train and someone I hadn't seen in 3 years, I hear my name and I turn around and I see him and we greet each other. And I said, well, what have you been up to? And he said, I just wrote a book. I said, you're kidding. I think I'm supposed to write a book. And so, you know, one thing led to another and he connected me and that's how I got to writing the book. The reason I wrote the book is because I had something to say that others needed to hear. And in my book, I talk about climbing the corporate ladder as an only and as someone who's different, being a Black female where there aren't a lot of people around you, and the lessons that you learn. And then also how I applied those same lessons in my cancer battle and in life. I put those together as strategies for other people.

Can you tell us some examples?

Yes. One is in the very beginning part of the book, in my first chapter. It's called Quit Whining. I like straight talk, but what that is really about is understanding that it's choice, not chance, that changes your life or that creates a great culture or a great workforce or a great workplace. And so often when I was in corporate, there's so many people who talk to you as though they're trapped, right? They are stuck there. You have a choice in your life. And so it's the quit whining. If you don't like your circumstances, Change them. Stop waiting for someone to come rescue you and rescue yourself. I tell people, the Calvary is already here, and it's you. Let's get on with it. Another part in the book— excuse me. That also applies in your life and in my cancer journey. I had 2 choices. I could say, woe is me, I have cancer, and give in. Or I could say, I don't like this. I'm going to fight like hell. I didn't know the fight was going to take almost 5 years, but I was still going to choose to fight. Right. You know, another chapter that I have in the book is, if you do something good, tell someone. So many of us in work and workplaces just wait for people to notice that we're doing great work. Right. And again, that's not how it works. I have another chapter in the book that's called—

Wait, wait, wait.

Okay, I moved on too quickly.

Wait, wait. I love this interview. I want to go back. You're not getting away with, if you do something good, tell someone. As people of color, We are not exposed to, if we do something good, tell someone.

Right.

We believe if we do something good, someone will notice it.

Right. Mm-hmm.

How did you get to the point where if you do something good, tell someone?

Um, because I was never getting credit for the good work I did. And so then I thought about it, and, you know, a lot of companies have this performance appraisal process where they, they give the individual the paperwork and they say, okay, write down what you did, and, you know, and then give it to your boss, and, and your boss will add to it. And people would complain about it all the time. It's like, why am I having to say what I've done that's good? Why doesn't my boss know, right?

Right.

He or she should just know. Right? I'm one of those people who immediately saw the opportunity in that and said, okay, managers, leaders are there to solve problems. That's what they know how to do. As a result, that's often what they focus on and what they remember, the problems that you created that they had to solve, right? They're not thinking about all the problems that were averted that never came to them because you did such great work. So now they're giving you this opportunity to do that. And I tell you, when I would submit my performance appraisal paperwork, my accolades and things I accomplished, it was like 10 pages long, right? Because I was leaving nothing to chance. I was not going to let somebody make up their mind about my performance based on solely what they knew or what they remembered. If you do something good, tell someone. It doesn't mean that you're shouting from the rooftops, hey everybody, look at me, look at me, look at how great I am. It's not about bragging. It's about taking the opportunity to say the things that you've done, that you've been a part of. And oh, by the way, when you do that, you can also help elevate other people too. You can say, you know, John and I worked on this project together, and look at how great it turned out. Right? Or because of my partnership with Susan and our collaboration and our teams came together, look at what we did. Right? So it's not just about elevating yourself, but if you don't, who's going to?

Thank you for telling us that. That is so important because I think that as we're moving, as people of color are moving through this process of learning how to Tell people what they've accomplished. We don't think so. It's like going from A straight to Z. So then we, then we're labeled as braggadocious, right? Right. Right. Not a team player. But if you bring in other people into your success and what you've done, then you're labeled as a team player.

Exactly.

And not just bragging about yourself. That is critical.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Then how do you then use that in your cancer recovery?

Where I use that in my cancer recovery is really being able to— and it blends in a little bit with advocacy, but it's really about being transparent and honest, quite frankly, with your doctors.

Right.

It's like, okay, yes, I walked up a whole flight of stairs. Right. Not a big deal, maybe, but that can mean a lot to a doctor. Right. I didn't take all of my medication because the pain went away. Right. That's another important piece of knowledge. I've changed the way I eat completely. Right. I've done this. That's important for a healthcare provider to know, right? So it's really more about being transparent, you know, and at the same time, you know, sometimes, you know, one of the things that I've seen with people who've been sick or who are sick, they need to see a specialist. They don't want to go see the specialist because they don't want to hurt their doctor's feelings.

Oh my God, yes.

Right. And, and I'm kind of like, this is your life we're talking about. You know, go see the specialist and tell the doctor that you saw the specialist. You all are partners and collaborators in your care. If your doctor cares about you, he's not going to shame you for seeing a specialist. He's going to appreciate the extra, you know, opinion.

Yes, absolutely.

Right.

And recommendations.

Right. Absolutely. And you just kind of start it. My treatment started in Virginia, but it ended in Texas at a specialist center because that's what I needed. And another part of my— another chapter in my book is that everybody needs a champion, right? And it's about mentors are great, right? They kind of help you navigate the landscape. But a champion is the person who advocates for you when you're not in the room.

Yes.

And if there is ever a place where you need a champion and an advocate, if it's not in corporate, it is absolutely in healthcare. You need an advocate when you cannot advocate for yourself. You need an advocate and a champion. And so those 2 things, you need it at work Because the people who are making the decisions in those meetings, you're not in those meetings, right? You need someone to say, hey, have we thought about Charlene for this job? Have we thought about what her succession is going to look like?

Mm-hmm.

Right? And you need the same thing in healthcare. Why are we giving Charlene a different drug than we gave so-and-so, you know, who's a white woman with breast cancer? Right. Why does she have stronger painkillers than Charlene has? Do we just think that Charlene is tougher for some reason? Which, by the way, is very proven that often Black women do not get the right painkillers because doctors have some belief that Black women are tougher, you know, and can just handle it. Yeah. So those are, you know, a couple of examples. And I think one that's really— a chapter that's really important in my book is it's called Not Everyone Is Invested in Your Success. Right. And we tend to believe when we are the one minority, right, and we're in a high-level position, we tend to believe that, oh, everybody's on our side, right? And, you know, I call it— I don't call it this in the book— I call it when you go from pet to threat, right? And the pet piece, which I don't mean that in a pejorative way, but, you know, you are— you're the one, right? And And everything's great and everyone's like, oh, so excited that you're there. And you, you get lost and start believing that everybody is on Team Charlene, right? Everybody's Team CB. They all want to see you succeed. Well, you know what? There are people waiting, sometimes in plain sight, who are actually invested, fully invested in your failure.

Oh, so well said.

Right? Yeah. And I just— I, in the book, I talk about, you know, what these people, you know, can look like, you know, the, the characteristics. And sometimes they're your coworker who you work with on a daily basis who are just waiting for that, waiting for that opportunity. And if you are a minority female, let's not forget that our failures become the failures of everyone who looks like us.

Yes.

They're not just ours. So there's a lot at stake. Right. And so I talk about that as well. And I think where that translates into life and into health, one example that I'll give you is when it was time for me to start chemo, one of my doctors told me that It was a choice for me that now that I'd had surgery and had both my breasts removed, they had removed the cancer and lymph nodes, that it was really my decision as to whether or not I wanted to go through chemo. I thought, well, if it's a choice, then I choose no. I called another doctor who I knew in Texas at a cancer center, and he said, for what you have, The standard of care is that you have chemo. 2 great doctors. From her perspective, I don't know why, but from her perspective, it was a choice. From another doctor, it was, you want to live? You want to live? You need to have cancer. For everybody else, Charlene, this is the standard of care. Right. You just have to keep Remembering these things. I take these life lessons for work and try to turn them into strategies.

Wait. How did you make the decision about which doctor was correct?

Because the first doctor said to me, it's my choice. Chemo can really be tough on your body. And if I didn't feel up to it, it was okay. Now, mind you, I had cancer in one breast, but I chose to have them both removed, right? Because it's like, if I'm going through this, I'm not going through this again. I'm eliminating every chance I have to go through this again, right? And I had said that to both doctors, knew that about me. And the second doctor Said to me the keywords, the standard of care for what you have is chemo. The standard of care. The other doctor was telling me that I didn't have to have the standard of care. Why? Why doesn't that standard apply to me?

What did you discover?

I discovered that chemo was hard, but it wasn't a choice. It was not a choice. I looked up the books. Google is no replacement for a doctor, of course, but you can get information. In that information, there wasn't anything That said the standard of care was anything less than chemo.

Well, what was your thinking about the first doctor then? And by the way, why did you have 2 doctors?

Well, I actually had 3 because I believe in odd numbers, right? Because I needed to see— I needed to get 2 opinions that were the same, right, from different people. So because I just— I'm just an overachiever in that way. I love it. I love it. Right. It's like, I'm not afraid of a second opinion and I'm not even afraid of a third opinion. Bias comes in many forms. Sometimes we're biased and we don't even know it. But you have to ask yourself, for whatever field you're in, why would you recommend to someone something that was less than the standard of care? Just why? And why would you accept it?

Did your mind take you to, well, maybe they're recommending this because they feel that I could not tolerate it, having gone through the surgery, that they were doing it for emotional support or some other rationale?

No. No. The only thought that went through my mind about it once I'd processed it was, you don't know me and you're not paying attention. A woman who has cancer in one breast and has both removed is not someone who is interested in shortcuts. That's what I say. I'm not saying that this doctor wasn't invested in my success. But why wasn't the standard of care good enough for me? Why was it too much for me? Right?

I love the fact that you asked the right questions.

Yeah. I mean, you just— something just told me. Remember earlier in the first interview, I said sometimes when my life could go left, for some reason it went right? Absolutely right. That's another one. So I know we're talking about my book, but those are how my book is not just career lessons, it's life lessons, it's health lessons. And one of my ending chapters, not the end, but one of my ending chapters is it's not all about you.

Yes. You know, I hate to end this.

I know.

My next, my next interview is coming on.

Okay, I understand.

I want to know.

This has been so much fun.

Let's set up another one, maybe after the holidays, because I want to dive more into your book. I don't think I have a copy of it.

Oh, I'm happy to send you one. More than happy.

That would be awesome. Um, you have such pearls of wisdom for our audience that I am so appreciative to you and for your time.

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for the invitation. I loved being here with you.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, audience, you see I'm on a roll today. So we do have another interview coming up. You'll probably see it on a different day. Um, but know that Charlene has just committed— you see how I did that? She has committed to coming back, and we'll talk about her interview and other things that she's doing now.

Great. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you to your audience. Have a great day.

And wait, before you go, so the audience is prepared, where can they get your book?

Oh, okay. So my book is available on Amazon, Barnes Noble. It's in Target as well. You can You can also reach it through me on my website, which is charleenwielis.biz, B-I-Z as in zebra. And, uh, you can also find it by playing around on, uh, Instagram and finding me, and LinkedIn especially, and finding out more about me there as well.

Great, great. Thank you. We'll see you again for sure.

Great. Thank you, CV. Thank you to your audience. Bye-bye.