Courage to Leap & Lead with Chris Toledo - Episode 142

You've got courage to leap, courage to lead.

Be brave and be bold. Whoa, let it roar.

Welcome to the Courage to Leap and Lead podcast, where each of our guests share the stories of courage that helped them become powerful leaders. Before we start today's show, please remember to visit courage-consulting.com. Where you can find all the episodes and other excellent resources, all at courage-consulting.com. Now here's your host, Leadership Courage Coach CB Bowman.

Hello everybody, this is CB Bowman, but you already know that. I'm so excited to see you today, and I have a special guest That's going to tell a really hair-raising story about the courage that he took to try to save a life. And so I don't want to spend any more time on my talking. I want to get right to the story. Welcome my guest, Chris. Chris, welcome to Courage to Leap and Lead.

CB, thank you very much. I am so happy and grateful to be here with you and your guests.

Thank you. So, hey, I want to find out a little bit about you first. Okay, tell us, you know, first of all, why did you want to be on the show? Second, how did you grow up and what are you doing now? And then tell us your story. So let's start with why did you want to be on the show?

Well, because you had the best podcast in the world, so I wanted to be on there. I wanted to give it a little bit of that. I, I, I, I've tuned into your podcast. I like your style. I like the way you approach it. So I just thought that would be— if I can get on that podcast, that'd be awesome.

Oh, you're so nice. I appreciate that a lot. You know, I work hard on it, so— and I have such amazing guests, so it does make it easier for me. Okay, so tell us about how you started in your career and then How did— what are you doing now?

Well, first of all, I have to say, CB, that I've just had just this most amazing life. I've just— I'm super grateful about the life that has unfolded in front of me. I started out as a young kid with a big desire to be a professional basketball player. And I'm, you know, I'm 5'8 on a good day. And so I always— it always just felt like my whole life I was having to be super scrappy to get whatever I want, which ultimately really led me to all of my success. After I played professional basketball abroad for 3 or 4 years, I went to work for an international organization, which has something to do with this story that I'll talk about in a quick second. Traveled all around the world in different roles with this organization. From there, I went to television. I hosted a television show that was aired on ESPN, and we filmed on the lot of Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida. Aired 5 days a week, Reebok City Jam, a street dance variety show. And then from there, the natural progression for me, it felt like, was to go into MCing and being a public speaker, which is currently what I'm doing right now and loving it.

Oh my gosh. So I am talking to a sports star.

You got that right, baby. That's right, CB, perfectly said. Yeah, I knew I loved you.

And what made you go to Europe to play sports?

Option, you know, like that was my— obviously my first, my first choice was to play in the NBA. And, uh, you know that I, I gave him my best shot, but my only option at that time was to go to Europe. So I went to Europe and I was like, hey, I'm gonna play pro ball someplace at some point in my life. Somebody's gonna pay me to play one game at least. I need to fulfill this dream. So I did. I went to Europe for one season. And then fortunately, after that one season, I got connected with some people in South America that wanted to bring me to South America. And they offered me to become on— I played on the Mexican national team when we played in the '84 Olympics. So just, you know, one opportunity, just, hey, you got to seize the moment. You know, you got to seize those moments when they come.

Yeah.

To be honest, one of the reasons why I really wanted to come onto this podcast was it just felt like, CB, it just felt like every step of the way, even though things worked out really good, but the main thing was at some point I just had to take a courageous move and basically throw caution to the wind. Like, okay, I'm just gonna do this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna at least give it a shot.

And so where did you play in Europe first?

In Brussels, Belgium.

Oh my God, where the little pizza is.

Yeah, and that's what— and that's where my brain started opening up too. I started learning other languages, and so my world started just opening up. I only played there for one season, which was 6 months, and then I went to South America, Central and South America. Um, just awesome experience though.

Where did you grow up?

So, uh, I, I was born in Tucson, Arizona. And, uh, I was actually born there, but at the time my family was living in San Diego. My father was a, was a collegiate football player. And so I was kind of going back and forth between, uh, between San Diego and Tucson. And then ultimately for my high school years, I, I, uh, was raised for my high school years in Arizona.

Okay. All right. Love Arizona. Love it. Almost moved there instead.

Oh man, it's so nice.

Yeah.

You know what's so funny though? Now as an adult, when I go back to visit my mom, I'm like, oh my God, it's so hot here. But CB, this is how, this is how your perception changes. Like when I was a kid, I didn't even realize that it was hot.

Yes. Yeah.

It is what it is.

But, but it was, it was dry heat, number one. And compared to Brazil, come on, what are we talking here?

Yeah, dry, that dry heat. You're right, that humidity will get you.

Yeah, exactly. So, okay, so then, um, after you played sports and you went to TV, what were some of the lessons that you learned while you were playing sports about being courageous, other than, you know, when the hand is reached out to you, you take it, you grab it?

Yeah, you know, one of the main things that I learned that the— and, and, and it's, and it's That seed was planted as a professional athlete, that seed was planted then, that actually right now is probably the biggest thing in my life. But what I learned most was the importance of mindset, and not just the importance of mindset, but the importance of a positive mindset. And typically in the sport that I was playing, usually the guys are a lot bigger. They're just a lot bigger than I was. So I was like, There's got to be a way that I could level the playing field. There's got to be a way. And what I discovered, especially the position that I play, was that the more positive, the more positivity that I could exude, and the more that I could get my teammates onto a common positive mindset, that was my ticket. That's the reason why I was able to play at the professional level. Yes, I was a good player, but there was also guys that were just as good and probably more physically talented than I was. They were a lot bigger, stronger, and faster. But it was my mindset, it was my positivity. That's what got me there. And my positivity is what allowed me, that was a key ingredient for me to take these courageous steps that I had to take. But it didn't start like, I didn't just have courage just because I was a courageous guy. I just had the right mindset in order to put myself into position to take these courageous steps.

Yeah. Yeah. So when you went to play in the Olympics, I mean, that's big stuff. How did you get there?

Well, so I was ultimately— I wound up on in the— there's a pro league in Mexico. And so I was playing in the pro league in Mexico and then doing well. And so they invited me to a tryout in Mexico City to try out for their Olympic team. And that was in 1984. In 1984, the games were in Los Angeles. So I went for a tryout and I made the team and I toured around the country with them leading up to the Olympics. We ended up going to San Diego and playing in the, in the NBA Summer Pro League in preparation for the games. And so we got to the games that were in Los Angeles. We got knocked out in the first round, but I stepped onto the court though. I was there.

Wow. I love it. Do you have like a A memorabilia piece from the Olympics?

I do. I have a couple things. Yeah, I have a couple things. But what I have more though, you know, and I know you remember this, but you know, back in those days we didn't have cell phones. I mean, we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have all this stuff, right? And so I didn't— so I mean, I probably had a camera. I mean, I had some stuff, but, but, but even better though, like, I was so present since we didn't have all those distractions of trying to get the perfect shot, the selfie and all that. Yeah, I was just in the moment. Like, I could— I have this, this, these vivid pictures that still are alive in my brain to this day that I can recall.

Wow. Wow. You know, that's a great story because we do rely on our cameras too much.

Yeah.

It's, you know, like, if I see something— this is silly— but if I see it like a sign, like there's a new store that opened near me where you could take your dog to get a bath. And I said, oh, let me take a picture of it. Now come on, CB, it's right next to my chiropractor. I'm gonna forget.

Yeah, well, and, and, you know, like, often, like, and part of what I right now in my motivational talks, you know, um, I have my own trademark brand of positivity, but part of that talk, we— a lot of the talk is about visualization and imagination activation. And so this kind of— I think a lot of this was born, you know, back in those days when we didn't have that cell phone to take a photo of everything or to send a text or to call somebody right there. Like, you kind of had to be a little bit more patient and be a little bit more in your creativity.

Yeah. And be in tuned with everything that's going on, right? Not say, I'll come back to it later through my phone. Okay, so tell me about this company that you went to that allowed you to travel all around the world.

Well, so, okay, so fortunately I've had several companies that I've teamed up with that allowed me to go all around the world. And but, but the cool part though is like in different roles. So right out of, you know, out of college I played professional basketball, and so I was with organizations from there. Um, I went to work at an organization called Club Med. I don't know if you've ever heard of Club Med or not.

Yeah. So big in the day. Yeah.

Yeah. And especially in those days. So what happened was, this is how beautiful life is, especially I think when you can be in, like, when you can really be in the moment and you can be in your courageous flow, like, like I was playing ball, you know, in my whole life, I just wanted to be a professional basketball player. That was it. That was the goal. And once I achieved that, like, I never even envisioned a day that I didn't play basketball every day for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

But then, you know, like all athletes, at some point it ends. Sometimes it ends by your choice, but more often than not, it ends because they release you from the team. And so, it was the weirdest feeling. Like, on my last team, they released me. They basically let me go. They cut me. And they said, you know, we can try to get you linked onto another team if you want, but There was something inside of me that said, oof, I feel so relieved right now. Like, I felt the sense of relief. And I just think having that, you know, just like not, not trying to cling on, but I just kind of relaxed. I went back to Arizona for a couple weeks and I just said, I'm just gonna just take a little bit of a break. And then like magic, Club Med came through. Like somebody called me that knew me.

Whoa, wait a second, wait a second now. Let's go back a little bit. Because I've heard this part a lot, that athletes, when they get cut, which I think is a terrible phrase, they just go straight, especially the well-known ones, they just go straight down to depression. There's nothing left for them in life because they're so used to the crowds and the playing and being You know, known, recognized. And so how is it that you skipped that part?

Well, I have to say, I mean, I would love to be able to say, oh, I did all the work that was going to put me in the position to be able to accept it. That, that's not really what happened. What really happened was, um, you know, when they released me from my team, I went back to, um, at the time my parents were both alive and they were living in Arizona. So I, I just went back and I was like, I just think I just want to just rest and I just want to just play some ball and just see what comes up. But no exaggeration, CB, like it was like the biggest weight off my shoulder when I, when I went home and I just found a little place that only ended up having for 2 weeks. But in those 2 weeks, it was a beautiful 2 weeks. Like I would go to the gym and play ball with the fellas and it was just like, it was just playing not to win. Who cared about winning? It was just completely about the joy. And I was like, Oh yeah, this completes the circle. When I started, yes, I had dreams to become a professional basketball player, but the reason why I wanted to do that was because I just felt so much joy from playing. And so I didn't— I literally didn't have one moment I was like, oh my God, like, where's the crowds? It was more like, oh yeah, now I can— I'm gonna keep playing, but now under— for a different purpose.

Yes.

So there was like no It was good. And I could have— like, I had teams that were calling me and say, hey, if you'd like to come and play for this organization. I was like, you know what, I think that— I think on a bigger level, I think that this part of my life is satisfied. Now it's time to move on to something else.

So it— I never quite understood. A team lets you go, then they refer you to another team. How does that work?

Well, so oftentimes, so, so when you're playing, uh, when you're playing in international leagues, so typically they only allow a certain amount of Americans on the team.

Ah.

And so there was only so many contracts. And so basically, you know, uh, the, they only had X amount of contracts and then somebody from the United States is some big star becomes available. Maybe they get, you know, they're released from some other team in, in the NBA. So, you know, bigger names come. And so, and that's what happened. So somebody, you know, a big superstar, um, you know, became available. And so somebody had to go and that somebody was me.

And so, and so they know other teams that are not filled to quota and they refer you on?

Yeah. Well, obviously it depends on the kind of relationship that you have with the organization, but fortunately for me, I was always probably because of my size. Also, I spoke the language too, But I was always the fan favorite. So I was the electronic media captain. I was like the— I was like everybody's like, even on the road for away teams, like I was always the favorite. And so I was, you know, I was in really good with the organization. So these, you know, like we just— and that's also where I learned how to— how, you know, yes, at some point you have to do the job. Like you have to be responsible for playing well. But on top of that, there's also another There's also relationships to be managed with people that are the management team. Like, there's an art to managing those relationships. And I understood that really, really well. And this happened at a really young age. So, I got used to— which served me very well later on in television. I got used to understanding what it feels like and what it means to be the leading man or the— I'm a man, so I say leading man, but it could be a leading woman. But the leading— the point person to, to a something big.

Fantastic. So before we move on, what are, what, what are some of the tricks of the trade to be a leading person?

Well, so what I learned, what, what I learned in real time is that when you have a lot of visibility, in other words, when like, you know, when every place that I play at the pro level, the crowds were massive and oftentimes they were smaller towns. So basically the whole town would revolve around this professional team. What I learned was that once you walk out— oh, you— I was living in hotels at the time. Once I walked out of my hotel room, from that moment up until I actually turned the key to get back into my room, I was on. I was probably being filmed, and that I was completely responsible, and that I was not just representing me, I was representing a whole organization and brands and sponsors. Every sponsor that had anything to do with this team, I was that, I was representing them. And I understood that every single thing that I did and said was gonna, uh, was and should be done in alignment with whatever the mission of that team and that sponsor was.

Interesting. Very interesting. That's a lesson that I think that we don't teach young people. You know, we teach people to think and be for themselves, but We missed the part about accountability to your surroundings.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I feel like I had really built-in lessons. The position that I played is called point guard. And I'm not sure, you know, for people that are listening, not everybody might understand what that is. But point guard is the person that dribbles the ball up the court. And the point guard is the one, basically the coach on the floor. They kind of control the tempo of the game. They, they, they kind of— they're, they're moving, they're moving things around, right? So sometimes you got to pick up the pace, sometimes you got to slow down, sometimes you got to calm your teammates down. The coach even might be going crazy. You got to calm the coach down. You just got to bring a little bit of order to everything that is happening.

Interesting. Okay, so now you move from there to What?

To Club Med.

Club Med?

Yeah. So I was home—

Doing what for Club Med?

So I was hired as what's called a sporteur. That was the person that's in charge of the land sports, which is a high— so there's all kinds, you know, there's land sports and there's water sports. But the land sports position is highly visible, is one of the most visible positions in the village. And once I got there, and literally I'd just come out of playing professional basketball. I was a professional athlete only 2 weeks removed. And so, when I got to the village, they saw my physical capabilities. And then, they saw right away that I had a really— since I had all this experience dealing with the media and dealing with people internationally, they saw the appeal that I had basically to the guests. And so, immediately, they lifted up my level of responsibilities. And so, I became Probably without— it was cool. I didn't have all the responsibilities, but I became the most visible person in the village. I emceed all the nightly shows. Ultimately, I worked my way into being the lead dancer in the nightly shows. I did all the welcoming. Even though I didn't solve problems, whenever there was a problem, I'm the one that they actually told, and they understood that I knew how to, okay, we can work this out. So, over the course of time, I just started developing this This leadership style.

Sorry, that's my phone. As the audience knows, I do real time, so it's a spam call, of course.

Oh, you found your phone. Awesome.

I did. I did. Yes. Thank you.

Good day today.

So yeah, so you were the lead person, so people came to you for problems. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, and so over the— so yes, they kept moving me into the position at the same time. You know, it's a, it's a French organization. And so I go into the mix speaking, uh, Spanish and English. And so when I was emceeing the shows, they would actually script it. So I would start saying it in French. But I learned something really cool, CB. I learned that making mistakes on purpose is one of the best ways to really get people to embrace you.

Yes. So many people are afraid to make a mistake in front of others. And You know, making mistakes is part of life. It's human. So go with the flow.

Go with the flow. And, you know, and, and some of the notes that I got from you prior to this interview, you know, you were, um, you know, we were to— you, uh, you were talking about what, what I have observed that leaders do that really has helped them become more courageous or to, to, um, encourage courageousness.

Yes.

One of the things that I noticed is Some leaders, uh, that I've seen got scared to make a mistake.

Oh yes.

They, they want to be perfect.

Yeah, it's just too much accountability in their head. You've got the board, you've got the employees, you've got the public, you've got yourself, you've got your family, and it just goes on and on and it snowballs into paralysis.

Yeah. So in the course of my life, I've had several companies that have given me these great contracts. They're like, all right, Chris, here's what your job is. Just come in, do what you do, listen, participate, and just tell us, just give us like, just give us feedback. How can we add fun into this mix? How can we make this more enjoyable? And so I didn't really have any— I didn't have to— I didn't have anything that I had to really— I just had to just be me and just just go by what felt right. And so I didn't have to be worried about doing the right thing or not doing the right thing. They just wanted me just to be. And so I had a chance to observe a lot of leaders and some very courageous leaders. And the best leaders that I saw were the ones that listened really, really well. And the second ones that were willing to just try stuff. Okay, yeah, fine. If it doesn't, it's all good.

Thank you. Yes, absolutely. You nailed it just now. Now, I know that you tried to save a little girl's life.

Yes.

Tell us about that story.

Yeah, so, um, you know, as, as I described earlier, my responsibilities were, were really on the rise, and it was super rare that I had some time to myself. I was either running a tournament, I was, I was emceeing a fashion show, I was always doing something. But this one particular day, it was, I don't know exactly what time, but it was mid-morning and I had about an hour to myself. And typically all my job was very physical, so I was always running or playing basketball or doing something with everybody. But so I didn't, I rarely had a chance just to exercise and just kind of do it for myself. And this one particular day I had that. So, I know now they have the old fancy, the whatever we call the iPods and all that. But back then we had the Discman. Remember the Discman?

Yes, I do.

Your older guests, they're gonna know, but there was a huge thing with the cassette thing right there. Yes, it weighed about a ton. So I was like, oh, I'm gonna go to the beach. Yeah, put my Discman on. So I was running down the beach, and at this one village, it was in Eleuthera in the Bahamas, a Bahamian island. Um, it was beautiful pink sandy beach, and I was running with my Discman. Its water is turquoise blue. and they have a kids club. Kids club where, you know, the little— the parents put the little kids in there. And so one of my friends worked at the kids club, and as I was— I couldn't hear anything because I was jamming to my walk— to my Discman. And I could just, you know, I could see somebody super like in panic mode, right? And I'm like, whoa. I could just see it. So I was like, whoa. And so I ran over there, and, uh, a little— in a girl— little girl of Indian descent had just got pulled out. Like, I guess in all the commotion, one of them just kind of got away, and then she got pulled out. Well, in this particular beach, it was a trip. Like, the water would just— like, the current was pretty strong, but you could be in like literally like 1 foot of water and then next minute you're like in 4 feet of water. So it kind of went like that for a long time, and there was definitely a current. And so they're like, ah, you know, you see the girl just getting pushed out there. I'm a really, really strong swimmer. And so I was like, well, here we go. So I just, you know, ran out there and swam out there. It wasn't that far, but it took a second to get there. And so when I got out there, it was just this little kid, right? And, um, you know, I'm a parent now, so I know what it feels like, what it feels like to lug a little kid around. But at the time I was not, so I didn't really understand. But what I noticed was, you know, when I got this kid, you know, when I— it was a different feeling, right? Like, like basically it was a lifeless little body. But I didn't, I didn't know that feeling, right? I was like, God, this feels kind of like interesting. So You know, hustled, hustled, hustled. Finally, you know, got back, and by the time I got to the shore, they had already called the medical people. They were, you know, doing everything they were going to do, and their parent— you know, the kids— they'd already got the kids' parents on the beach. And so they, you know, they took the kid, you know, they rushed the kid to the hospital and pronounced this baby, you know, deceased, you know, upon arrival. And so at the village is what they call— it's a really tight-knit group of people there. Club Med prided themselves on having workers from all over the world, from different cultures, so a lot of different perspectives. And there was like 120 or 150 workers. And so the issue became not only just dealing with that, but just how are we going to deal with all the workers? How are we going to build the process at— And you know, CB, I'm not saying back in those days mental health— people didn't have— there weren't mental health professionals, but it was a different deal back in the day. It wasn't as readily available and as accepted, so we didn't really even talk about mental health.

Right, right. But we don't talk about it enough. But yes.

But, you know, especially back in the mid-'80s, it was a different deal. And so the parents of the kid, they were of Indian descent, you know, they were huddled with me. And with the people from the club and the Bahamian officials as well too. And we had to make a lot of decisions. How are we going to handle this? How are we going to move forward? Who's going to talk to the other workers? And what's the message that we're going to give to— and, you know, like in a village, you know, rumors fly around super, super quickly. So we needed to kind of corral things. So they chose me. They chose me to be the one not to create the message, but to deliver the message and to lead everybody through this, this little situation. And so we did. So that night, it was probably midnight or 1 o'clock in the morning, they called everybody. We had a meeting in the theater. And, you know, I did, I did, I told everybody what was up, what had happened. I told everybody what the next steps were going to be. I told everybody the message that we were going to unite around. I told everybody how we were going to, how we were going to make this something that we could all be proud of, how we handled it. even though it's not a pleasant situation, but we're going to handle it in a way that we can be proud of. And, you know, I was young, CB, but I also, like, I could just, like, the messages came to my head, like, I'm ready for this. Like, like, that doesn't mean that my heart wasn't, you know, hitting, bouncing out of my chest. I was definitely a little scared too, for sure. But it made me realize This is what it's about. Like, like in those moments, I was like, like I was, I was like, okay, this is what courage is to me. It's like, it's like fear, right? It's just a line in the sand. If we go to the beach and we draw a line in the sand and I'm on this side of it, all I have to do is just do whatever it takes to just get past that line, which takes half of one second. So if I can somehow just get myself just to walk past that invisible line of fear, I'm, I'm, I'm past the hardest part, and then I can just go about and do, and do what I need to do. So I led these people. So we— this went on for quite a while. And, and, you know, people at Club Med, they go for what, say, from— for one week. So this particular group that we had was there for one week. I also had the address— I, I had to also address the guest.

Hmm.

Because also heard And so now everybody's nervous and scared. So, and that was it. That was a different set of communication. That was a different kind of courage. And I realized that, you know, in going through all that process, I realized there's not just one brand of courage. There's a whole bunch of different— there's a different flavor to courage. And you gotta just be able to touch the right courage button for the right moment.

Yeah. Yeah, so it's also in the eye of the beholder, right? Yeah. Yeah. So what, what message did you give to the parents and the staff and the guests? What were the messages that you gave?

Well, so here's, here's the, here's the other part that was just mind-blowing. The parents of the kid are the ones that were telling me This was preordained to happen, and we are happy. We're lucky that you're here to help us through this. So you're the chosen one. I'm like thinking, I'm like, you know, obviously I was years away from being a parent, so I didn't have that parent-kid understanding. But even at that young age, I'm like, okay. But they gave like it was like they were consoling. They were. I saw that they were trying to console us. I'm like, if their kids want that, like this has nothing to do with me other than I just happen to be working here. But if they can be strong like that, then it's time for me to stand up. It's time for me to recognize that this is that all opportunities are created in the moment of decision, and I decided a long time ago to be somebody special. I decided I wanted to be. make myself a professional basketball player. And at that moment, like, all opportunities were created. This is just another opportunity that's being afforded to me, and I'm going to take full advantage of it. And so we just let everybody know that this is how— this is how it was supposed to be. We're, we're gonna be okay. We're going to be sensitive, but we're not going to fall apart.

No.

Did the parents have other children?

They did not.

Oh, it was an only child?

The only child. You know, I'm not sure currently, I'm not sure that they didn't have more later on, but at that time, that was the only child.

It was a young couple?

Young couple. Um, you know, I'm, I'm guessing a little bit, I'm guessing like early 30s, so younger, younger.

Wow.

That, that takes amazing strength on their behalf. Because they were able to see you, one, and to see into the future in terms of your mindset, you know, to make sure to comfort you, to let you know that you did everything that you could, but it wasn't in your hands.

Yeah. And, you know, CB, it was just a beautiful thing. Like, like it made me realize at that time too, like this courage thing. Like, it's— courage is, to me— and once again, I'm not some scientist. I don't study— this is just all my experience, right, that's speaking through me. But what I learned, though, about courage, though, is in order to get your courage up, to feel like you're going to be maybe interested in being more courageous, you got to be willing to encourage.

Yes.

When somebody encourages somebody, you're giving them, you're giving that person a piece of your own courage that says, hey, I believe in you, maybe even before they believe in themselves. And so by encouraging people, it strengthens your courage. And so I got such a heavy dose of encouragement through this. I'm like, okay, life is great. Life is just awesome. And I, and I, and in this moment I was like thinking, okay, my life has already been pretty cool, but I just have a feeling that it's just gonna continue to just Be blessed.

Well, you will continue to make a difference in the lives of many people. And so I'm so glad to have met you and to hear this incredible story of gifting back and forth. Gifting.

Yeah.

Well, Chris, it, it, you know, I hate to cut our interviews short because I need to get to the dentist, which I am not looking forward to doing.

Right.

But I wanted to be sure to get you in today because I had read what you wrote about the little girl in your life. And I think it's really important that people understand that you can reach your dreams and then those dreams stop. And it's okay to have new dreams and new goals.

Yes.

And to be happy and comfortable in those. And as you said, it's a mindset shift, right? We can't look back and say, I wish I was, or I wish I had. You have to look at the present and say, let me grab it. Let me be happy. Let me move forward, right? Let me learn from what I did before.

Yeah.

And let me embrace others.

I love it, CB. I love the, I love the philosophy.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, audience, um, I hate to say goodbye to Chris. He's been a powerhouse. All I could say is if he's speaking near you, go and hear him.

Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely.

Thank you, Chris, and we will talk soon. Audience, I will see you next week after the dentist.