Courage to Leap & Lead with Marva Sadler, part 2 - Episode 126

You've got courage to leap, courage to lead.

Be brave and be bold. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Let it roar.

Welcome to the Courage to Leap and Lead podcast, where each of our guests share the stories of courage that helped them become powerful leaders. Before we start today's show, please remember to visit courageconsulting.com where you can find all of the episodes and lots of other excellent resources. That's courageconsulting.com. Now, here's your host, Leadership Courage Coach CB Bowman.

So, tell me a little bit more now about other challenges you've faced. You know, you are You've opened the door to some incredible conversation. So tell me—

Sure. Would you like to talk about a professional challenge or a personal challenge? Both.

You're so transparent. You're so clear on your experiences.

Well, let's talk about one of the most recent. I was in a car accident. I was rear-ended on the freeway. 4 years ago today, as a matter of fact.

Wow.

So commemoration. And it was the second time in a year I'd been rear-ended on the freeway. Both times traffic in front of me stopped. I stopped my car to avoid the, you know, the pileup that was happening. And the individual behind me didn't pay attention and ran into me. And this last time, I walked away from it, but my car was pretty much totaled, and the other guy's car was completely totaled. So you know that the speed was pretty high. And I thought I was okay, you know, I— but what had happened is I'd hit my head really hard on the headrest, and I ended up with a traumatic brain injury that wasn't diagnosed for a few weeks. And I kept trying to work because I had just taken a new job and I was a contractor, so I didn't have health insurance or any leave or anything. And I just kept working and it just kept getting worse. I eventually ended up— I eventually ended up seeing a neurologist. A chiropractor, a physical therapist, a vision therapist, and a traumatic brain injury psychologist.

What was getting worse? Was it headaches or seeing or what?

It was everything. But more than anything was I was losing my ability to think in any kind of pattern that made sense. I have a really good memory, or I used to have a really good memory, and I was at the point where I could not make a list of 3 things in my brain. I would get to number 3 and my brain would start to stutter, and it would just— then it would go on this like cycle where it would just repeat these 3 phrases or ideas in my head over and over, and I had to consciously shut it down. Loud noises, bright lights. Anything like that set me off, and I couldn't go outside in the sun because I would get just this screaming headache. And and it turned out that I still had problems with my eyes, that I the alignment of my eyes was off. So that was giving me a headache and making me tired, and I had to re-pattern. I had to go back, and the physical therapist helped me with with patterns that they teach. you know, babies learn to get their right and left sides to work together. The vision therapist tried to re-pattern my eyes so that they could coordinate. The neurologist tested my cognitive abilities and gave me all kinds of vitamins. She didn't believe in drugs, so she was dealing with, you know, vitamins and minerals and hormones. And, um, I went through just a real struggle, and then I got COVID. And all of the progress that I'd made just went. It just left. The next time I did the cognitive test with the neurologist, she would— she said to me, what happened to you? You know, you'd made all this progress. You were getting into the normal range, and now it's just all gone. I told her, and she said, oh, I'm so sorry because we have no long-term studies of the impact of COVID on traumatic brain injuries. But we know there is some, and we just don't know how long it will take to recover. I had by that time finished with the therapist and the physical therapist and the vision therapist, and I had to go back and start all over again. And all this, all during this time I worked and tried to create coping mechanisms, tried to figure out things that I could do that would make me more productive with the time that I had and the capability that I had. I got a virtual assistant, and I would assign the virtual assistant. So there were things I did like she does an end of report day for me every day. where she says, these are the 5 most important things you've got to take care of before you end your day. Here are the emails that are the most important. Here are the meetings that you need to prepare for tomorrow. She basically does that for me because for a while I was not capable of doing it for myself. What came out of that was a real clear intentionality about how I have to take care of myself. I meditate on a regular basis. I have found, you know, calming music. I have, I have all these things that I've worked through that work for me. They don't necessarily work for other people. They come out of that realm of things that are supposed to work for you. I take walks out with my dogs out in the forest that I live in and leave my phone behind and just appreciate nature for 20 minutes at a time. In order to— and I do it very deliberately when I know I need to calm my brain down. I have learned to speak my truth and be very calm about it. And one of the really funny things is one of the first things I lost was my filters, my verbal filters. And so I started swearing. I'd never sworn in my life.

Yes.

And my children and my team Just found it hysterical. My my youngest son would come to visit me once a week and do his laundry, but mostly he was coming to check on me to make sure I was eating, and he would you know cook something to feed me. And about you know some period of time in there, he asked me something, and I said, "I don't fucking know." And and he he got out his phone, and he texted all my kids. He was like, "Mom just said the F word." And so it's been, it's been a big joke with my family.

I think it's incredibly freeing. Hold on one second, Marva. I need to open the window. It is very hot in here.

Okay.

That Colorado weather was snowing yesterday, and now it is so hot out, it's ridiculous. So, I mean, I think that's— that is really the best story I've heard. You know, I did not— when I was very young, I started swearing and my parents said, uh-uh, we're not having that, right?

That's true.

Fast forward many, many years, meeting my husband. For some reason, I just started swearing. I'm like, where is this coming from? But it is so freeing when I'm talking to him. Of course, he's Italian. That probably helps. But I noticed that the other day. I said to myself, you're cursing an awful lot. So join the crowd.

Well, I don't do it much now. My Croatian team has offered to teach me good words in Croatian. I haven't taken them up on it yet. But what I have learned is I have learned to recognize my limits. For a while, I had something called dysautonomia, which means that your, your autonomic nervous system doesn't— it's like it short circuits and it behaves badly. Your heart and your lungs and your blood pressure and your body temperature don't regulate properly. And I could bring on really awful stuff by overdoing any kind of physical labor, or it turned out any kind of mental or emotional labor. I could trigger an illness by getting upset. And so I have learned that when I feel that I'm on the edge of not being able to cope any longer— and being on the edge for me is like I'm right at the edge of a cliff, and I just, I start to get like this kind of dizzy feeling in my head, and I literally have to just walk away from whatever I'm doing. Last summer I was out shoveling bark chips because I was trying to, you know, take care of my yard. And I had ordered 7 yards of bark chips, which is a lot, by the way. And I was out shoveling them.

Yes.

And my sister was helping me, and we were, I don't know, we were probably 15 minutes from the end. And I just, I'd been doing it for several weeks, a little bit at a time, and she was trying to help me finish up. And I looked at her and I said, I'm done. And she said, we've got this little bit left. And I said, we'll have to do it tomorrow. I'm done. And I put the shovel down and I walked into the house. I said, I have to lie down. And it has taken a great deal of discipline to get to the point where I recognize the signal and just go, okay, I need to take a break now. If I'm at work, it's like, I need to take a break and I'll be gone for 30 minutes and I need to just go lie down and reset my brain and come back. It's given me a great—

Can you spell that for us? I want to—

dysautonomia. Yeah.

How do you spell it? Autonomia.

D-Y-S—

I'm sorry?

D-Y-S, dysautonomia, A-U-T-O-N-O-M-I-A.

Okay. I want to look that up. That is really interesting.

My physical therapist found it when she was doing a stress test on me, which they were doing regularly. They were putting me on a treadmill and getting my heart rate and my blood and stuff to go. My heart rate wouldn't go up, and my blood oxygen just started to drop. I looked at her, and I said, I don't feel so good. And she came and checked my vital signs and she said, get off the treadmill now. And so then they started testing me and they— that's what they found.

So there's so much that's happened to you that other people— it would just take other people down, to be frank. The fact that you were able to think about getting help in business and you Instead of just sitting there and letting it get worse and worse, you went out and you identified an administrative assistant.

Mm-hmm.

That is just so amazing in itself because most people would say, I can't afford this. I don't know what to ask her to do. So now you have somebody to assist you in your work, and that is a great success.

Oh, and we continue these habits even today, even now that I'm much better at, you know, being able to follow through and track. I'm significantly more productive now than I used to be because my brain is working faster back again. But I still use these coping mechanisms because they're just so effective.

You know, I remember when I was working in corporate America. And I never believed in taking lunch. And I would get into so much trouble with my managers. And I'd say, but I need to finish this. And I, you know, I hated, hated taking lunch. And they would say to me, but the studies show— and I would say to myself, I don't care what the studies show.

Yeah.

But recently with my own company, there's something weird that I've noticed that When I get really exhausted, which is not the same as being tired.

Mm-hmm.

I can keep working, but if I stop and take a break and come back, I see new patterns.

Yep.

That I didn't see before. And I'm like, darn, why didn't you see that before? So talking to you makes me Realize that I need to take— I need to recognize when it's coming and take those breaks. Because I'm always afraid I'm going to lose my power, I'm going to lose my strength, I'm going to lose my thought. But in fact, those breaks make it clearer and stronger, and you see different patterns, as I mentioned before.

Your brain can actually process in the background When you're enjoying that, you know, 15 minutes of freedom or, you know, the look at the sky or whatever, your brain can process in the background and come back with a fresh view that when you're just trying to push your way through it— because I, I am one of those people who always just pushed my way through. And I, in that experience for the last few years, realized pushing my way through just didn't work anymore. I, I couldn't make it work. And so I had to find other solutions. And I agree with you, the, the 15-minute break, the reset, I come back with more energy. I come back lightened. You know, my mood is lightened. I'm, I'm able to be more friendly or more positive in my message. I'm much less likely to make a mistake. Like, make a really— like, say something I shouldn't have said or send an email that I shouldn't have sent. You know, I'm much less likely to do that if I— and so I find that when I'm getting to the point where I'm angry about something, I just go, okay, yeah, I need to— I need to walk away from this.

You know, I'm laughing because somebody said to me, you know, I'm a true Scorpion. I'm actually a double Scorpion. When you're really angry, CB, it's best not to respond to emails.

Mm-hmm.

Just let it go overnight. And for years I resisted that. And about 5 years ago, I started taking a break. Like, I'm really, really angry, send the email the next day.

Mm-hmm.

And that has saved so many relationships for me because I do tend to really express myself very strongly when I'm— Angry, right? So I totally agree. You start to look, and I say to myself, you know, you could have worded this a little softer and still made the point.

Mm-hmm.

And so I end up rewriting the entire email. And, um, it's, it's interesting that you're bringing up this point, because I think it's very much akin to taking a break, come back, Rethink, you know. Nowadays I say to my husband, do I sound really angry here? And he'll look at me and, um, this quiet way he'll say, well, maybe you could change a couple of words. In other words, yeah, calm down. So this The concept of taking a break is so fierce, and we power women, we just try to ignore it. We just go straight for it, right?

And it's so counterintuitive that taking the break will actually make you more productive, but it's true.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So tell me, what else did you learn? And one of the things I'm going to ask you about is after your car accident, Were you checked out by a doctor, or you just assumed that you were in great shape and just continued on?

I didn't get checked out by a doctor for a couple of weeks because I really thought I was okay. I thought I could power through. I got my son to drive me home because my car wasn't drivable. And it took a couple days for me to— from the time of the accident, took a couple days for me to really start realizing, no, there's something wrong here. And that I would say is, you know, if I could give like a public safety announcement.

Yes.

I would say don't ever walk away from an accident without going straight to some medical place and then really pay attention to the symptoms you get. Because 4 years later, I have just resolved the insurance to get my medical providers paid because the insurance didn't want to pay. And their reasoning for not paying my medical providers for what they did for me was that the officer on the scene, when he asked me if I was hurt, I said, no, I'm okay. And that— the insurance company kept pushing that in my way. And I just— I had to do a deposition about a month ago, and they said, you said you were okay. And I said, yes. And do you know what proportion of people with brain injuries think they're okay in the first 24 hours? The fact that I said I was okay doesn't mean I was okay. It just means I wasn't smart enough to realize I wasn't okay. And that's actually, that's actually much more typical than we think.

Again, I'm so glad that you said this because that, and I remember when I was in a car accident and I thought I was okay, and my father said to me, you don't know that. I said, what do you mean? I'm walking around and everything. He said, there's something that's called soft tissue damage that can flare up 5 years from now. And again, we, we are just so anxious as a society to get going. It, it relates to not taking breaks at work that— and, and this, I think there's also something about, for many, let's not make the situation worse.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Let's not blame the other person. Yeah, I'm talking about people that have integrity, not scam artists. Uh, and there's also something about, I'm embarrassed, I don't want to go to a hospital, you know, even though it's not my fault.

Absolutely. All those things were going through my mind. The individual who hit me, the first thing he said to me when I got out of the car was, he said, oh, this is, this is so bad. This is my second accident in two months. It's the chemo brain. I had cancer, and he showed me this scar. I had to have a lump removed. And then, of course, you know, my empathy and sympathy went to him, and I was just like, "I don't want to make his life worse." This poor man, you know, he's already going to have trouble. And so I just really tried to minimize. And if I could go back and do it over, I wouldn't try to blame him or. Try to tell the officer that I was really hurt and was, you know, it was an emergency. But I would say, I need to be checked out by a doctor. I think there's been, you know, there's possibility that there was damage done. Obviously, look at the cars. How could the cars be this damaged and the people not damaged? I at least need to be looked at. And, but, you know, or quite honestly, I'm not sure I was in a position to advocate for myself because I didn't know how hurt I was. So, you know, I think it's also our responsibility to advocate for our loved ones, for our family or our friends who, who say, I have this issue, and we say, I'm coming to get you. I'm going to take you to the doctor.

That's a good point. And I think that there's a way you could do it, as you said, without adding to this gentleman's burden by just saying, You know, I feel okay, but we all know that it's best to be checked out by a doctor after something like that.

And I actually think that the police should be trained, the, you know, highway department or whatever should be trained to say, we have a policy that you need to be checked out by a doctor if you've been in a car accident.

That is a really good point. A really good point.

They, they see this stuff far more than any of us.

Yeah.

And they, they must know, looking at an accident like that, okay, this woman says she's okay, but she's probably not okay.

Exactly. I love that idea. I mean, we put, we put so many laws in place that we're just wasting time, as far as I'm concerned. And then there are laws that are really important to us. And we just don't Mm-hmm. So I'm getting a phone call. Let me just decline it. Good. Okay. You know, what's great is the audience that tunes in here, they, you know, we're just very real people. And so open the window, the phone, everything. And I just love it. I love the people that listen to this show because I enjoy doing it, and I so much enjoy guests like you that just tell us the real story.

Well, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.

And I, I hate to wind this up, so—

But we need to. We both have other things we need to do.

No, no, no. You know, we allocated another 20 minutes, so We can keep going for a little bit because I want to hear another story from you. I almost feel like I'm in bed getting ready to go to sleep. Mom, tell me another story. My audience is crazy, but they know, just like real. Tell us about one in business where you had to Really stand in your true north?

Um, I'll tell you a recent one. Uh, you know what, maybe not that recent one. That one might not be good. Oh no, tell us, tell us! Well, no, I, I don't want to tell something that might be recognizable as to who the players were and how they, you know, because, because I wouldn't want to ever say anything that puts somebody in a in a light where they can't defend themselves.

You can't disguise?

No, I'm not very good at disguising because, as you said, I'm very transparent and I'm, you know, I am WYSIWYG. What you see is what you get. I have never been able to lie. I've never been able to obfuscate. It just has something to do with being extremely introverted and extremely direct. It's that Big difference in the profile that just makes me just incredibly, you know, transparent. So let me tell you about it.

I'm the same way, and it's quite frankly, it's a pain in the ass, you know.

You know, I often wish I had more control over it, and I don't. Yeah. Um, I'll, I'll tell you about one where I felt like I was taking a risk, but I was really glad I did it.

Okay.

Um, recently, you know, within the last couple of years, so I was the CEO of WBEX and we were trying to sell the company. The owner, Ben, wanted to get out and he wanted to sell. And so we got down to the company that was looking to buy us, who did buy us, and I had the opportunity to meet with the CEO of the company, the, the owner and CEO, Alex Pascal, and a potential investor. And, um, Alex and I sat down to have lunch after we'd had this meeting, and I did something that was pretty unusual for me. I admitted some vulnerability, and I said, Alex, I need to tell you about this, that I had a car accident a few years ago. I had some brain damage. I still— so this was 3 years later. I still have word search problems. I don't have dementia. I don't have Alzheimer's. I know it would be easier to believe, easy to believe that I, you know, that this is something that you can see that's the beginning of a deterioration. It's not. I'm getting better and I'm working on it. But there are times when I will slow down looking for a word that my brain just can't find. Please understand what's going on when that happens. It's not that I'm stupid, it's that I have brain damage, but I will continue to work on it. And I just wanted you to know it so you would understand when you see it what it is. And also because I want to just be completely honest with you. Now, that was a really courageous conversation to have.

Yes.

And who had not yet offered to hire me. And to his credit, he said, I really appreciate that you told me that, and I appreciate that you trusted me enough that you would give me that information.

Mm-hmm.

And I think it's been very good for our relationship. He did hire me. I'm still working with coaching.com for Alex, and we continue because we started that way. We continue to have very kind of candid, Blunt conversations, and so there are times when I just tell him. There was there was a time a couple weeks ago when I had pneumonia. I didn't realize I had pneumonia yet. I was pretty sick, and he started to say something to me, and I just looked at him and I said, "I'm really sorry, Alex. I'm really sick. I can't have this conversation today." I acknowledge that I made a mistake, and I acknowledge you have every right to talk to me about it today. But please don't, please don't talk to me about it today. Let's talk about it another time when I am in better physical condition to be able to respond in a way that's productive for both of us.

Now that's courageous.

Thank you.

That is so extraordinary. You know, one of the things in my book that I talk about, which is coming out in April called Courage to Leap and Lead, is that we don't spend enough time applauding ourselves for microcourage, which is a term that I've coined. And basically it just means that it's everyday small actions that lead to a big shift. The fact that you were able to say that to him, and we both know Alex, who is a very hard-driven person—

Mm-hmm.

—means that you really flexed your courage muscle. And the fact that you started the relationship like that, and then when it came that you needed to use that muscle, the groundwork was there.

Mm-hmm.

And that is just building your courage muscle to allow you to be courageous in other things that you do. And so I really applaud that. You know, we think about courage as being macro courage, which is running into a building to save a life or jumping into a pool. But the fact is, and this is what my book talks about, is that every single day We have courage and we do courageous things, but we don't take the time to say, well done. So I'm saying to you, well done.

Thank you. I appreciate that. And to his credit, he listened to me. And that, you know, that is not surprising because he does listen really well. But I I think that the lesson there, you know, it doesn't really matter whether the individual on the other side receives the courage in the way that you want them to. What matters is that you experience the courage yourself, because the more that you have those moments of courage and can build on them, the more free and brave and capable you become.

Absolutely. But— and I'll tell you something else. The fact that you allowed your courage muscle to speak allowed you to say the words in a way that he could cognitively hear them. Mm-hmm. That's a big difference than just saying the words. Because saying the words is like, hey, Alex, I don't want to talk about this now. Bye, I'm out of here. But you explained the conditions, and you gave him the option to be able to discuss it at a later date. You welcomed the discussion for a later date. That is courage.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

So with that, ladies and gentlemen, I hate to end this conversation because Wow. I cannot wait to transcribe this conversation into an article. Mauva has been so kind. Kind is probably not even a strong enough word. Inspiring? That's not it either. Motivating? That's not it either. I don't know what the word is. But you have allowed other people to experience your experiences and to be wiser because of your experiences, to be able to take care of themselves, to be able to fend for themselves, to be able to take care and support others that have gone through the experiences that you have. This is what this show is about, and I thank you for being present. in this show and sharing with us your true self. Thank you, Marva.

Thank you. Can I, can I just say one last thing, CB?

Absolutely.

Um, one of the reasons that I participate so transparently in podcasts, or really in anything I do, is because I realized for myself a long time ago that the only thing that really matters in life is the way that we interact with each other. You know, how much money you make, what title you have, those things are all just artificial constructs. But what really matters is our relationships with other people and whether we are lifting them and helping them, because that's what carries through. And I happen to do it inside a business environment because I'm particularly good at that. But what I really care about is the people. And so thank you for giving me this opportunity to share something that I hope will be useful.

It will be useful, and it's clear that you care about others.

Thank you.

So with that, everybody, I hate to say goodbye. But it's not really goodbye. It's just, I'll see you next week. Please tune in, subscribe, and subscribe to my LinkedIn newsletter. It was just released today. You know, it's the first week in the month. And today, this month's topic, I take on a really serious subject, which is the suicide rate for CEOs. And I look at that from a courage lens, and I won't tell you the rest, but please take a look and reach out and listen to those people that you know may be in that situation. With that, that's— this is CB Bowman saying until next week, please tune in to Courage to Leap and Lead. Thank you, Marva.

Thank you, Suvie.