143: 2 Million Page Views in 2 Years with Jessica Beacom and Stacie Hassing

In this episode, I talk about knowing your peeps. And then Jessica and Stacy from the Real Food Dietitians talk about how they built their blog to over 2 million page views monthly page views in less than three years. It's going to be a great episode. Hey, everybody, this is Bjork Ostrom. You're listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast and we are sponsored by WP Tasty, which is a plugins site for anybody that runs a WordPress site. We have two plugins, tasty recipes and another plugin called Tastypins that help you optimize your site for recipes if you are a food blogger, and that's what Tasty Recipes is for. And Pinterest, if you get a lot of traffic from Pinterest and you'd like to optimize both the alt text for your image as well as the Pinterest description, and do other fancy things like include hidden images that are triggered when people pin a recipe but they don't see on your blog post, then Tasty Pins is gonna be the plugin for you. You can find all of that@wptasty.com and every episode we do a tasty tip that has to do with the episode or just general best practice for blogging. And today we're gonna talk about something that was mentioned on the podcast today, and that is this idea of demographics. And I wanted to talk about demographics because there's this really cool thing that you can do with Dem that ties into sponsored content. And to find demographics, all you have to do is log into Google Analytics, go to your site, and then on the left side there's this area called Reports. You just click on audience and then you click on demographics. And then you can see there's three options there, Overview, age and gender. And what I like to do is click on overview and that should give you an overview of the demographics of the people that are visiting your site. Now, that in and of itself is really cool. But then what you can do is use this information to help build out your media kit. So a media kit is used for anytime that you do sponsored content and are working with a brand or pitching to a brand, they're going to want to know information about your audience. Who are these people? And you can use the demographics section in Google Analytics to get that information to then put that on your media kit. So in the case of Pinch of Yum, if we're to look at Pinch of Yum, it's a primarily female audience and we can see that that the gender demographic is 17% male and 82%. 82.7% female. So that's gonna be really important for any brand that is working with us because they're gonna have a certain target market that they're looking to aim at. And if they know that information, they may be more inclined to work with us. The same is true with age demographic, which you can also see within Google Analytics. So that's a great little tip. If you are building your media kit for doing sponsored content, be sure to check out the demographics area and use that to inform some of the communication that you're doing with those brands or the sponsorship opportunities that you have. Now we're going to jump into the good stuff. We're going to talk to Jessica and Stacy from the Real Food Dietitians. They're going to talk about how they started their site, the advice they'd have for anybody that's looking to enter into a partnership, and then some of the things that help them grow the site to a point where at the beginning of the year, they had 2 million page views in one month. And they did that with launching the site in a relatively short amount of time. So they launched back in November of 2015. So they've grown the site. They're having a lot of success, and they want to share that with you, which they're going to do on the podcast today. It's going to be a great interview, so let's go ahead and share. Jump in. All right. I am so excited to have two incredible guests on the Food Blogger Pro podcast. It's always interesting with two guests because we are doing an audio interview, so I can't look at you and know that you're speaking. I'm speaking to you, so I'll try and point out who I'm talking to by saying names. So, first of all, Jessica, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, Bjork.

Yeah. And Stacy, welcome to you as well.

Thank you.

Yeah. We're going to be talking about how you built your blog and in a relatively quick amount of time, built it up to a sustainable and impressive amount of page views. And the blog, Thereal food dietitians@therealfoodrds.com is a really incredible blog. But before we do that, I want to hear a little bit about each one of your stories, and we'll take it individually, and then we'll come to that meeting point where you became partners and started working together. And from there, we'll launch into talking about the blog. So Jessica would love to hear from you first. Before you were working on the real food dietitians. What. What was it that you were doing? And would love to hear you bring it up to the point where you met Stacy.

Okay.

I was actually a part time stay at home mom and was dabbling in a private practice as a registered dietitian. I had just built a new website and was just getting into blogging, but could never really find my groove and I never felt really compelled to share anything. And so that was kind of stagnant for me as far as the blog and the website. But I was seeing quite a few people face to face. And then I got to the point where I could only exchange so many hours of my day for dollars. And so I figured I needed to find a way that I could make my business like, scale it more on an online kind of realm. And yeah, so I did that for about three years. I kind of just struggled with that. And then that led to where I met Stacy.

Got it actually. So I want to dig into that a little bit. So you were, what it sounds like is you had maybe what we would consider portfolio work website, where it wasn't necessarily the thing that people were coming to and where business was being done, but it was kind of like, hey, this is proof that I am good at what I do, that I have other clients and dabbling in the blog side of things a little bit. But the primary business interaction was offline, so to speak. It was working with clients. So what was it about that process? Was it strictly trading time for dollars or did you get burnt out on the process of working, working one on one with clients? What was it that flipped the switch for you into starting to think about, hey, what would it look like to have something more scalable where I don't have to trade my time for dollars?

Yeah, so I was working primarily in a practice that focused on digestive disorders and diseases. So a lot of the people who came to me were extremely sick and their healthcare providers had really given up on them and so it was exhausting. At the end of the day I would take on everybody's emotional and mental burden and yeah, it was really hard and I really wanted to go back to operating more in the general wellness space and just talking about like more general things that weren't quite so heavy and didn't require quite so much research and so much lab work and interpreting labs and things like that. So yeah, especially having really young kids at the time, let's see, they were three and six, so they weren't even really in school full time yet. So I Just wanted something that was, quote, unquote, I guess, lighter.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then I could reach more people.

Yeah. And probably lighter from multiple different avenues where it's lighter in terms of the actual heaviness of the work that you're doing. And 100%, absolutely, that work needs to get done and what an incredible thing it is for the people that are able to do that. But for a given life situation, there might be times where it's just not a good fit. And it sounds like for you, you realized, hey, this is important work, this is significant work that I'm doing. And also at this point in my life in regards to the time that I have, the time that I want to spend with my family, and maybe a little bit from a business perspective as well, building something that's scalable, that will continue to work even when you're not working. All of those things together led you to kind of think about, hey, what is the next step? Is there something else I can create? And when you got to that point, did you have different ideas of what that could be or were you just really open to whatever could possibly fill that or check those boxes that you would need to get checked?

You know, honestly, I didn't even know how to scale that business to more online or to a broader audience. I was still thinking really small at the time and it was kind of like, well, maybe I'll offer a group class online and charge for it, or maybe I'll write an ebook and charge for it. But then again, I didn't really have any traffic to that website. So up to the point where I met Stacy, I was really just stabbing away at things in the dark and really just grasping for something. But I knew at the time I needed to get out of seeing clients. And because I have kind of a unique position, not, I guess, unique, but, you know, I'm a sandwich generation. So I have an older parent, a mother in law who lives with us who needs more care. And at the same time, I had these really young kids who needed more care. And so yes, I definitely had this. There was definitely impetus to get out of what I was doing, but I didn't know where to go.

Yep, absolutely. And that will be a good foreshadow. But before we jump over into launching the Real Food dietitian, Stacey, I would love to hear a little bit about your story. So before this site, what was it that you were doing? And you can take us up to the point where you met Jessica.

Sure. So I was a full time dietitian. A full time clinical dietitian and dietary manager at the local healthcare system. And that I was, I probably worked there, I think for about four years before I started kind of dabbling into this online world. And the way it started was through I decided one day I was going.

To start a Facebook page where I.

Could share like different nutrition tips, recipes and things like that. So that evolved into me teaching cooking classes out of my home. It evolved into me getting attention from people that aren't necessarily in my local area, but people were reaching out to me to help guide them through meal planning, nutrition counseling. So I started to then think about, well, I could, you know, grow a private practice and I could see patients or clients all over, you know, the nation and help them out. And so which evolved. So then that led me to this conference where Jess and I met, which is where we went there to kind of learn about how to grow our online business.

Got it. Yeah. And excited to jump into that and talk a little bit about that. Stacy, have a couple questions about your story personally. So one of the things that's interesting when you look back at your stories, you kind of stair stepped along the way. You had mentioned a couple different things that you personally had done. You started a Facebook group, you're starting to do some individual cooking classes, and then also mentioned kind of dabbling with a blog. Curious to know, as you went through that process, what were the things that you learned along the way that helped you build and grow? Because so often those early stages are a learning period. And I'm guessing that you took some of the things that you learned from that period of you just personally working on your site and your brand and applied them to what you're doing with the Real Food dietitian. So what were the things that you learned in those early stages?

Yes, so I think one of the biggest things I learned was the importance of building the community, building your community. So whether it was teaching cooking classes or I knew at that time my.

Facebook page was very small.

I knew it was all mostly local people that I knew. So it was really reaching out to, to those people. And I think it just made it feel more real because I knew I had a personal connection with those people and also that it came from a place of passion. So at this time I had no, I mean, I didn't really have an intention to create this, you know, blog as my full time business or this online. You know, the teaching classes and growing a Facebook page like it was purely out of passion to share this information with those people.

Yeah, that's great. And that's actually one of the questions that I'm going to ask for you together, knowing that you have a Facebook, a private Facebook community going to ask some questions about that. But before we get there, let's go back to this conference. So you each went at this point, Jessica, you didn't know each other. Right. So can you talk about what the conference was and why you personally, Jessica, decided to go to that?

Yeah, I had done B school through Marie Forleo.

And for those that aren't familiar, can you talk about what that is?

Yeah. B school is an online, I believe it's six weeks online business program. It walks you through setting up an online business, essentially from getting the email to building a website, to creating an email list and opt in. So I had gone through it very loosely, and when I signed up, I signed up through one of her affiliates, who was Nathalie Lussier. She was putting on a conference. I can't even remember the name now.

And this was the same conference that you attended, Stacey, is that right?

Yeah. Correct.

Okay, so this is your popie.

What was it called?

What was the name of the conference? There's one important thing that came from it and that is your connection from it.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Nathalie Lussier, but I can't remember what it was called.

It was called off the Charts live. Off the Chart, Yeah.

Awesome. And so you had each attended this, Stacy, did you go through B school as well? Is that how you, um, were able to get the ticket to this event?

I did not. I was invited with. To go with a friend.

Okay.

Who was planning on going to the conference, so.

Got it. Yeah. And so, Jessica, I want to go back to the B school side. Um, I've. I know a couple of people that have gone through that and Familiar from a distance with Marie for Folio, for Leo, obviously from a distance. Folio. Thank you. What was your biggest takeaway from B School?

I think from B School, my biggest takeaway was that I was really naive as to what online business was. I wasn't aware that I could actually provide services online to clients. And so that was like. Like I said, I was stabbing in the dark. Do I write an ebook? Do I host a group class? So that opened my eyes to, like all of these other opportunities. And then I already had the website built, but I knew nothing about creating an email list or an opt in or how to use social media. And so I think those were my biggest takeaways. Were just very basic things.

Sure.

Get an email list, get on social media. Yep.

And yet, so important. I think basic, it's maybe similar to fitness and nutrition. Like, we know it's good to eat vegetables, and we know that it's good to exercise, and yet it's not always easy to do, even though the information is simple. And sometimes it's helpful to have that outline and those guidelines to say, okay, this is what it and this is how it looks, and this is how you implement it. So you're both at this conference. And, Stacy, I want to hear about the moment where you connected and was it a partnership, love at first sight, where you said, we need to do business together, we know it's going to happen, or did it take a while for that to develop?

Well, actually, so we met at the conference. I remember Jess giving me, like, a goodie bag full of, like, healthy snacks and so different things. So she knew. Jess, you must have. Knowing that there's going to be other dieticians there.

Yeah. I connected with another dietitian, and they found out there was going to be a group, so I brought them all, like, a bunch of locally made Colorado products.

Oh, cool.

Yeah.

So that's how. I guess that's the first encounter we had. And then at this conference, I think there was maybe four or five of us dietitians. And so we went out to lunch every day. And then that's where Jess and I even connected further. And from there, we decided, I guess it wasn't really like, right after the conference, but about, I would say, three to four months later, I reached out to her and I just said, hey. I just kind of checking in to see how her business was going, what she was applying from the conference. I asked her if we want, you know, let's get on the phone and let's kind of see where each other's at, how can we help each other out? And from there, we kind of started. Well, we did start talking about how we could collaborate together.

Yeah. And Stacy, talk about those early conversations, because I think a lot of people have that idea or think about that potential of working with somebody, but it's rare for that to actually happen. And then even more rare for a few years down the line to still be working together and to be having success with the site. So what. What did those early conversations look like, and what do you feel like are the things that you did that were helpful to set the partnership up for success?

Sure. So early on, our conversations were very, very much so out of support and out of how can we help each other out? What's working for you? We were both at this time growing, you know, trying to grow our online practice and then also grow our email list. So through that we're like, well, how can we work together to grow our email list? So we decided that let's create an ebook together and we will use that as our opt in. It started off very small. This wasn't going to be a long term thing at first.

It was very.

I don't even know at that point if we were thinking about long term partnership. It was more. So let's work together on this project and let's build our email list from there. That project actually ended up being several projects and that led into the start of our business together.

Got it. And I think that is a huge takeaway, whether that be with partnerships or contractors or employees or whatever it would be to build in ways to connect and work together to test the water a little bit. And it's the idea of like dating before you get married. And I think sometimes people are so anxious to have a new team member or to have a, you know, a partner that they're just like, let's just get married. And it's. And what you don't realize is you need that kind of quote unquote dating, period, to understand the person better, to see if you work well together. And doing those small projects is such a great way to do that. So big takeaway for people that are listening, that are thinking about partnering with somebody, whether that be an official business capacity or even just for projects as hiring somebody to work with them on a project basis to start to get a feel for how it, how it is to work together. So at what point did you say, okay, let's go ahead and go all in on this blog? Jessica, do you remember when you had that conversation and how that unfolded?

I do.

We actually didn't start with a blog. We had an idea.

Actually.

Stacey had been working on an idea for an online meal plan membership program where each week members would receive a meal plan with a grocery list and the recipes. And she asked if I wanted to kind of like buy into that project. And so I did. We hired someone to develop a website. It was very rudimentary and very crude and built on optimized press. And I felt like we were kind of teaching the web developer as we went what we needed and he was researching it. We wrote, I guess, not really blog content. We wrote a bunch of recipes. We preloaded this blog in anticipation of launching it the 1st of August in 2015. Yeah, it feels like forever ago. We launched it on August 1, 2015, to, I don't know, an audience of maybe a couple thousand. And we had a few signups and we really were using the blog as a way of like putting out an easy recipe and saying, hey, if you like this, we have a meal plan membership. The way we were delivering them was behind a membership, kind of like a membership program. You just log in and you would download your PDF and it was really, really clunky. We would have to send everybody an email and say, like, hey, you can download them, you can get them here. That went on for three months and we thought we were going to, like, poke it out our eyes because it.

Was so soul sucking.

It was so much work. We didn't have any recipes created. Like, we couldn't just pull from this bank of a thousand recipes. So we actually had a phone call on a Saturday morning. I remember I was sitting in my office and I think Stacy called me. She was in tears and she's like, I can't do this. Then I started crying. I can't either.

And what was it specifically about it that was. That was so difficult because I think that's. There's a huge learning experience in. It's such a valuable thing. And I think that's one of the things that the podcast that we try and talk about a lot is like, even in not doing something or building something, there is immense value in jumping in doing it and, and attempting it, because you learn from that. So, Jessica, what do you feel like were the things that you took away from that experience of trying to build that business that informed the future decisions that you made?

Well, we definitely knew that we were filling a need. So from working with clients for so many years, we knew that a big need was people need meals planned for them. They want grocery lists, they want to figure out how to make these delicious things that make them easy so they fit in their life. So we knew we were filling a need. We just weren't doing it the right way. And we knew we didn't have the tech ability to create a website where they could select for entrees that don't include eggs or something like that. We just felt like we were never going to be able to really, truly fill the need because we lacked that ability, that resource.

And how did you know that what you were doing was helpful? Like, that there was a problem there that needed to be solved. What were the things that helped you understand that?

Well, I think, like for both Stacey and I just being in practice, we know that, like, that's what clients would come to us for. Can you just plan my meals for the week and give me a grocery list?

Yeah.

And that was the one thing we kept hearing over and over and over again. So, of course, having recipes on the website was like a way we could say, okay, rather than coming to me for me to sit here and write them out for you, you can get them on the website. And then that would essentially free up our time to be able to see other clients. And so that was kind of how we were thinking. We would automate half the business, but then still be working, live in the other half of the business, our own personal businesses.

Got it. And so, Stacy, you put this call in on a Saturday morning. You have this conversation. Do you remember what month was that? You said it was 2015. So about when did that happen?

October, I think, because we launched the blog in November.

Got it.

So it would have been like, end of October. Yeah.

Okay. It was actually the middle of October because I got on a plane a few days later to come to your house. Yep.

And then we spent the weekend building the blog.

Got it. And so how do you know when you should fold something? And how do you know when to continue building something? What were the things, Stacey, that you talked about and the decision process, what did that look like that led you both to the place where you felt comfortable saying, we are done with this, or was it just like that? You. Like you said, Jessica was poking your eyes out. But was it. Were there specific things that you said? This leads me to believe we should fold this business and start something new.

Yeah. So for us, you know, I think, yes, the poking our eyes out was definitely a sign that we should maybe reconsider. And we weren't excited about it. Like, it wasn't like we weren't excited to create these meal plans and to.

Create all these recipes that we had.

Enough to put on the next month's meal plan. Like, it was a lot of work and we were feeling burnt out. And, you know, it was very early on in starting our business together. And so if we didn't enjoy it, then why would we create a business that's not, like, fueling us personally? So that's when we decided. And the rest of the whole blogging thing came because we were sharing recipes on this membership, membership site that were free to anyone, and that's why people were coming to that site for those recipes. Not necessarily not to sign up for this membership program. So through that, that's when we're like, well, you know, blogging. You know, we talked about blogging and like, well, let's, let's do that. That sounds fun.

And so in October you wind down the other business and then in November you sp new business. And this is a blog. So Jessica, tell me a little bit about how you came to the came to agree on the niche that you would serve. And any advice for people that are looking to figure out a niche, how they can help figure out where the best spot for them would be.

Yeah, so we actually started the blog under the name Simply nourished Recipes. And that was a spinoff from the opt in that Stacy had talked about that actually turned into three 96 page books that we self published. So really in those books we talked a lot about clean eating, sourcing local, organic when possible and gluten free. And we had really good response from those books. We sold a fair number to our small email list and so we kind of just started there. And then from there, in 2015, the Paleo Diet was really hot and Stacy had gone to a mastermind with somebody who was really connected in the Paleo community. So we started to kind of focus on, well, let's focus some efforts there. Let's put out some Paleo recipes and see what kind of responses we get. So just based on it was more like an instinct, I think, or a gut intuition where we would focus than just like choosing. Yeah, yeah, I think it shows us.

Yep. And one of the things that is a couple of things that I would point out that I think is good with the branding of it. So the real food dietitians rd rds for the domain name, but there's a real specific explanation of what it is. Real food, but not specific enough to pinpoint you to a certain diet, which I think is really nice. So you can do whole 30, you can do Paleo. So it's this nice balance. And then there's credibility in the fact that you're saying you're dietitian. So it's this great combination of flexibility and also some credibility with the fact that you are both dietitians, which is a huge advantage with you and the content that you're creating. So you go ahead and you launch the site and in the email that you had sent. And this was great because we get a lot of email pitches for podcasts, but it was a great little credibility piece. You said in one year we grew from non existent to over 200,000 views. And then in two years we hit 1 million views in one month. And then today, this was earlier, kind of in January period where there was a lot of traffic, which you acknowledged, but said we're sitting just under 2 million views for the past 30 days. So massive, incredible growth and over a relatively short amount of time. Right. Especially for a content based business. November 2015 until early 2018. And I would love to spend some time talking about what the things were that you did that helped you guys grow, because a lot of people are interested in growing their traffic, and you guys did that. So, Stacy, when you think back to the past, you know, two and a half, three years, what are the things that were most significant in terms of getting traction with building traffic and readership to the blog?

Sure.

So we really put ourselves out there in the beginning. We had a lot of guest blogging opportunities. We reached out to bloggers that inspired us, like, hey, we love what you're doing. Would you be open to having us guest blog on your site? So we really connected with a lot of people, whether they're big, not even bigger bloggers, just people that we really look up to and offered the guest blog, or we would like. Jess was speaking on a website called Paleo Hacks. So we did a lot of guest blogging there too. So the growth, I mean, again, it was work that we're not financially, you know, we're not getting paid for. It was all, you know, in the very beginning. It was a lot of our, you know, our time.

Yes. Yep. It's 100% sweat equity, which so often there's. In the early stages of building a blog, you have to put that in. Can you talk about specifically what the strategy looked like for guest posting and how you went about doing that? Jessica, maybe if you can talk about what that was like. It sounds like you guest posted on a site a couple different times. And then also talk about. After you talk about the process. Why was that valuable? What did. What did you get from that? That.

Yeah. So when we were guest posting a lot, I mean, it's safe to say that if we had two blogs to do for our website, we had to do for somebody else. And so we really were doing double the work for a good period of time. And when we would have a guest post, we'd always make sure that we were, you know, somehow linking back to a site or a recipe or, I'm sorry, to a recipe that was really similar that was on our site.

Sure.

So it was really like, hey, if you loved this, come check us out because you're Also going to like this. And so we always made sure that there was a way we could somehow get them back to us. So that was really our strategy, I guess. Like, how do we woo them and then woo them, you know, like impress them in the living room so they come check out the bedroom?

For sure, we can use the dating analogy further. So one of the things that I think is also important to point out is with guest posting, not only are you getting the actual conversion from people clicking on that link, but it's also such a huge SEO boost. And for those that have listened to the SEO podcast that we do, one of the most important things that you can do to build your authority as a site is to get credible links back to your site. And if you're doing that via guest posting, it's a lot of work, like you said, and definitely time and energy goes into it, but it's a great way to be able to build that link profile, especially in the early stages as you're just getting started. So at what point, Jessica, do you step back and say, okay, now we are no longer going to guest post? How did you make that decision to start focusing only on your own content?

I don't remember exactly when that was.

Well, and I. Sorry, I would say that we do still guest blog. I mean, we're still doing that.

Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely got it.

So there wasn't. So it's still part of your strategy, which I think is great. And I think for those that have the time and ability to do that, I think 100% encourage people to do that because it's a great way, like we said, to not only build awareness of who you are and, you know, build your brand, but also to get links back to your site. So maybe a follow up question would be for those that are overwhelmed and you can talk about this, Stacy, with the amount of content they have to create, even two posts a week takes a lot of time. Especially with the recipe post. You're doing photos, recipe development, drafting the content, all the social. How do you also fit in time to guest post? Are there ways that you can do that more efficiently or is it just like, hey, it's going to take a lot of time and you got to accept that.

Exactly.

It's going to take a lot of time and you have to accept it. I mean, growing up, you know, growing a blog, especially if you're on the fast paced, if you're on the fast paced track like Jess and I, like, you know, you really just have to be willing to grind and put in the time. Like, it's. And there's going to be days that you're like, I can't do this anymore, or, you know, and those are the days you just need to take a day off.

Yeah.

But definitely just.

Yeah, we just.

We've just put in a lot of time and we're continuing to do that.

We haven't.

I mean, we've been able to slow down a little bit, but, you know, we're still. Yeah, we're still grinding away, so.

Sure. Yeah. One of the things that you had mentioned as we were chatting and both before the podcast and via email was attending a Pinch of Yum workshop, which is so cool. So I'm sitting in one of the rooms here at the studio at the same place where you do the workshops. But it seems like, you know, Jessica, you mentioned B School as well. It seems like you have been intentional not only in working hard, but also educating yourself as to best practices within the industry, which is a lot easier said than done. And it's hard to do that when you're already have all of these things that you're trying to accomplish and take action on. So what do you feel like were the biggest pieces that you learned and would be interested to hear this from each of you, both Jessica and Stacy, the most important things that you've learned along the way and places where you continue to look for that information. And that could be anything in anywhere. It could be podcasts, it could be books, it could be courses. Would love to hear what's been most helpful in terms of actionable items that's allowed you to grow your site. And we can start with you, Jessica.

Yeah, I think for me, it's really been being a member of Food Blogger Pro has been like my ace in the hole.

And this isn't me. You don't have to say Food Blogger Pro. This isn't me searching for something.

Well, it's, I guess, Food Blogger.

Probably such a Bjork super fan. Stacy knows I'm like a Bjork super fan. I'm like, did you hear his podcast? So, yeah, I do listen to the podcast. I always appreciate the way you interview and how you get so much information out of people in such a short amount of time. But I also like the fact that I can go into Food Blogger Pro and I can do have a question about photography, about video, about SEO. And in our business relationship, I tend to be more on the techie side and Stacy's more on the, like, the business negotiation side. And then we Both kind of like fall in the middle with like recipe creation. So whenever questions. We built our first website by ourselves. You know, it was like we just got the domain and we got a WordPress and that kind of stuff. And so I was in there a lot, like, how do I do this? Or how did I do that? Or what's the best plugin? And I still go in a lot for SEO things like how can we further optimize video in there a lot. So really that's like my go to resource. I feel like I'm so busy I don't have time to step outside of what I know because what I know is working really well.

Yep, got it. You had mentioned B school as well. Is that something that you'd recommend people check out or check out Marie's content? Is that something that's been helpful?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I thought it was great. It was exactly what I needed because I didn't really understand online businesses. And I think if somebody doesn't really understand, like, how do I create a business in an online space or what could it look like? Or who would I serve or how do I find out who I would serve? I think it's. It would be super helpful.

Yeah. Cool. And then, Stacy, how about you? What are the things that you, along the way have found to be most helpful in terms of informing decisions that you're making and also kind of giving you actionable items and you. We will opt out of Food Blogger Pro or any Food Blogger Pro related stuff, if possible, to get some variety for places that people can check out.

Yeah.

So for me, I think it's connecting with other bloggers, connecting with those who are kind of going through some of the same experiences you are. There's a handful of bloggers that started around when we did, or maybe a little before, but we've been able to really connect with them, network with them. What's working well for you in really just more of a collaboration that's been extremely helpful to learn from some of the other. Some other bloggers.

Yeah, that is such a big takeaway, especially with such a siloed type of work where you're not in a big office culture where there's people you're talking to and people can relate to, and if you have a bad day, people that get it. And so you can connect with those people to share that. Because inevitably everybody that's listening to this podcast has felt similar things. Whether that be discouraged or lonely or feeling like it's just not worth it, and they Want to give up. Like, we all feel that at some point. But the hard thing is when we don't have somebody to connect with and share those feelings with. So how did you go about making those connections? Did you pull a Jessica and bring little dietitian gift bags to the people? Did you reach out to them online or what was it that you did to allow you to authentically connect with other people and then maintain those relationships?

Sure.

So.

One of the bloggers I'm speaking of is a good friend of mine who we started around the same time. So she's nourish move love Lindsay from Minneapolis. So her and I have been on this journey since the very beginning. She started just around the same time we did a couple others was just through online connections, whether it was through Instagram, maybe met them at a conference we went to. But very kind of similar, I guess, blog content too.

So similar types of recipes.

So that was mostly through an Instagram connection. And that's just sending them a message and saying, hey, I like what you're doing, would love to discuss or talk blogging with you or whatever. So it's just being comfortable with making those connections and sending that message to someone who you feel that you could help or they could help you and vice versa.

Yeah, that's great. And I think a big encouragement for people that are feeling alone to say, hey, take that step, reach out, send a message, and you might not get a reply, which is totally normal. But don't let that discourage you as you're looking to connect with people. So specifically with the business, it's at this point where we're entering into 2018. It's an established business. Right. So you guys have built something that's really impressive. Stacy would be interested to hear you talk about from the business side of things, where have you found the most traction? You don't have to share numbers, but in terms of, like, percentages, what's been most successful? Is it working with sponsored partnerships? Is it advertising? Is it courses or content that you're selling? How have you gone about structuring the blog as a business in order to create an income from it?

So our blog, definitely ad revenue is going to be our number one source of income. And that was with ad revenue. It's traffic in our blog, that's kind of our focus. It's our traffic and getting our numbers up, because that definitely plays a huge part in our income. And then after that would be the sponsored content and any projects that we do for companies. So maybe some contract work and Then the next one would be affiliate. So those are really our kind of four main streams of revenue.

But yeah.

So starting with the ad revenue, and then sponsor content, and then affiliates.

Cool. And then for sponsored content, are you working with brands individually or are you working with an agency? Or how do you get those connections and meet those brands that you're working with? For sponsored content?

Sure. So it's a little bit of both. Sometimes it's directly with the company, and it might be a company we reached out to or they reached out to us. Sometimes it's through their agencies. But then recently we brought on a brand manager, so he's been a huge help in what we do. And so now he's kind of the one reaching out to brands, having the conversations, doing the negotiating, and then we're obviously a part of it, but not as much as we were before.

So helpful to have somebody like.

It is so helpful.

Yeah. Can you talk about how you came across this person? Was it somebody that does this as their job? Specifically a connection that you had from another blogger? You don't have to share information. Obviously, it's. You don't want this person to be inundated. But for somebody that's looking to connect with a brand manager or have somebody help, what would your advice be for them?

Well, I would say. So our brand manager is in a similar. I guess he works for more.

What would you say, Jeff?

Like, outdoorsy type companies or.

Yeah, he actually works in the outdoor retail industry.

Sure.

So he has experience in the whole brand connection. So connecting influencers with brands and through conversation with a friend about this was around the time we were thinking of hiring a brand manager. I was just talking to a friend about this, and then a couple days later, she, you know, sent me a text and was like, hey, tell me.

More about this position.

And at that time, we didn't really have the details, you know, all laid out, but so I just sent him, like, well, this is what we're thinking. And then I asked, do you have someone in mind? And she was like, well, yeah, my husband. We're like, okay. So honestly, it's just if you, you know, if there's. If you want to, like, add someone to your team or you're thinking of doing something different with the business, just talking about it, because usually it, you know, it's one of those things, put it out in the world and it will come back.

It's such an important thing where I think sometimes we think these things that we're doing, whether it's creating a Product or looking for a new team member. They bounce around in our head and they feel so loud. But what you don't realize is nobody else has any clue that that stuff is bouncing around in your head. And you need to let people know and people love to help. Like, if I go back and, you know, tell my parents and my family and my friends, you know, we're looking to hire a video specialist, right? So that's what we're doing right now. Alana, our video specialist, is moving to South America. And so we're like, okay, we're looking for a video specialist, but nobody knows that unless we say that it's such a simple but important takeaway. I think that's great. One of the questions that I wanted to ask specifically to you, Jessica, was, you know, you had talked about kind of leaning to the tech side of things. So can you talk about what tools have been most important for you as you've built your blog? And this would be software, could be apps and knowing that you're in a unique situation where you're in two different states. So Jessica, Colorado and Stacy in Minnesota. Go Twins. But you're in these different places working together. So what are the tools that have helped you with that and just in general tools that have helped build your blog?

I would have to say, like, Google Analytics is really my go to. I don't know how to really use it. I wouldn't say I'm a super user. But just getting the information, like what are most popular posts and where is the traffic coming from has been really helpful for targeting where we're going to spend time as far as social media goes. But then also, yeah, it's hard to say I'm not a super user, like I said. But yeah, I do a lot with Google Analytics just seeing how does things.

Perform to dive in on that. Because I think usually myself included, a lot of the times what we use Google Analytics for is we jump in, we say, hey, great page views, and then we leave. So if somebody's looking to go from the very, very basic of just looking at how much traffic they're getting to maybe going one step further and using it a little bit more strategically, would you have one or two pieces of advice of where people can look in Google Analytics to get a little bit of a better idea of like maybe what a popular post would be or where traffic is coming from, some of the doing a little bit more investigative work in Google Analytics, what would that look like?

Yeah, I spend a lot of time in the acquisition tab, just finding out where that traffic is coming from. And then sometimes I'll go in demographics, too, and see where a lot of our readership is in the US because then that helps us know that if we have a lot of people in the Midwest, we're going to be posting on Instagram at a time that's going to be, you know, not at dinner time in Minnesota. So we definitely focus on that kind of stuff, like, when is the best. And I know that Instagram has insights like that, but I don't feel like they're as reliable as. Because what happens on Instagram doesn't always happen on your blog. And so that's another way I use Google Analytics, is we'll post something on Instagram. We'll see, like, how many people are coming from Instagram to a post. Was it an effective post?

That's great.

Or like, yeah, well.

And just to say real quick, so the acquisition tab, great area. I don't know if it's what you call a tab area section, whatever it is in Google Analytics, but literally how traffic is acquired and there's all that cool stuff that you'd mentioned that you're able to check out and spend some time in. So if nothing else, a takeaway for people listening to this is, hey, jump in and explore the acquisition tab a little bit. You don't even need to have an actionable item the first time you look at it. But just go in there and look a little bit and see. Explore the acquisition area. I think that's great.

Yep. And then I used to look at bounce rate a lot, but then I realized that because most of our traffic comes from Pinterest, people are really coming in and they're leaving quickly. And so I feel like our bounce rate is a little skewed by the fact that it's mostly from Pinterest. So now I look at pages per session and the amount of time per session and finding out, like, how long are they staying? And I know there are tools like hotjar that I've kind of thought about using to see, like, where are they going and how are they navigating within the site, but just having gotten there. But I think that's really helpful to know that, okay, the average person is coming and they're staying for four minutes and they're seeing seven pages, and then we can kind of compare that.

Yep, that's great. So how about from the partnership from a distance standpoint? So this would, to use the dating analogy one more time, and I promise this is the last time we'll use it, but it's like a long term relationship or a long distance relationship. Right. So it's like you're involved day to day, checking in, working on different things, but you're in different places. So how do you go about managing that? Is it a lot of phone calls, email? What are the different ways that you found have worked well for you to work together? And Stacy, I'll let you answer that one.

Sure. So Jess and I, we probably have a phone call every day. And that's just we, you know, we check in usually in the morning. Okay, what's on your agenda today? This is what I'm planning on doing. Kind of really hit those top priority items and then we do a lot of work on Google on the Google Doc. So that's how we're sharing our content back and forth. It's nice because we can both be working at the same time on a project. We can see what each other's doing. So we organize pretty much every. Our entire business in Google Docs.

Yeah, Google Docs is amazing.

We always say our business is built off of Verizon and Google Docs, which is so cool.

That's the. I could geek out on that for a long time. Just, you know, the Internet and you can. One of the things I remember, I was in college when Google Docs released the feature where you can type and then see what the other person is typing at the same time. And it's just mind blowing and then it quickly becomes normal. Right. But a really cool feature, especially if you're collaborating on a document. So we're coming to the end here, but there's a couple more things that I wanted to hit. One of the things that I had talked about and would love to hear you share just a little bit about is this idea of having a private Facebook community. And when we were first talking, Stacy, you had mentioned this, the importance of community and noticed that to be a theme that carries over with your site right now where you have a private Facebook community. So can you talk a little bit about that, Stacey, why you decided to create that Facebook community and why private a private group over an open Facebook page?

Yeah, so we actually, we do have both. We have our Facebook page and then we have our Facebook group and in the group we share more of our, you know, more of our real life day to day things. So whether it's this is what I'm eating for lunch or this is what I meal prepped and it really is a way for us to really connect with the people that are reading our blog or following us on social media, and it allows them to have a safe place or feel like they have a safe place to ask questions. So really, it's just to build that community, which is so important when, you know, with an online business, because sometimes we lose. We kind of lose that.

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It's such a small difference, but it's such a big difference, right? The difference between a group and a page, where a group feels a little bit more like a really big community and whereas a page feels like maybe a really big concert where, like, people are showing up and they're just watching as opposed to engaging on the same level. And I've seen a lot of brands switch over and start to use groups versus a page just for that reason. They can engage at a different level. So we're coming to the end here of the interview and would love to hear each of you share just a little snippet of what your encouragement and advice would be for people that are in the early stages or maybe they've been doing it for a couple years and want to kind of pour some gasoline on the fire and grow things as quickly as possible while also maintaining their sanity, which it sounds like you guys have done well. So, Jessica, what would your advice be to anybody that's looking to start and to grow and to also maintain their passion and interest with what they're doing?

Yeah, I would say definitely don't feel like you have to reinvent the wheel because chances are it's already been done. It's out there. So connecting with others who are doing something similar, not being afraid to reach up to somebody you admire and say, hey, I have a question. Would you have a minute to answer it? I know in the beginning that was really scary for us to ask these big bloggers, but now that we're getting those questions, like many dozens a week, it's our chance to kind of pay it back, too. But not being afraid to ask and to connect with others, because chances are there are so many people out there in the world who can consume this content that we don't really have to compete, that if we just collaborate that we all win. Then, yeah.

Awesome. That's great. And Stacey, how about you? Same question.

Yeah, very similar to Jess, you know, really to focus on, like, what you're passionate in and what you want to share. And sometimes you just have to put your blinders on and not, you know, not look at what others are doing out there. Not look at what, you know. This blogger is doing or that blogger. But really just put your blinders on and do what feels right for your business and for your readers. And really always, you know, go, go back to your passion. Like, what are you passionate? What do you want to share? It's your, it's your blog and so that's what's most important.

Yeah, that's awesome. Really great interview. Super fun to connect with you both and to hear your story. Last question would be where can people follow along with what you're up to? We'll link to it in the show notes as well. But Jessica, can you share a little bit about how people can follow along with your blog and then also with the different, different social media handles that you have?

Yeah, you can find us at therealfoodrds. So rds.com and then our social handle is therealfoodrds on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest.

Awesome. Great. And like I said, we'll link to those in the show notes as well. Jessica and Stacey, so fun to connect with you both and to hear your story. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Thank you, Bjork. It's been a pleasure.

Hello, hello, hello. And thank you so much for tuning in to the Food Blogger Pro podcast this week. And now it's time for our reviewer of the week. And this one comes from Madison from the blog sunnytimes.com and that's times like the herb. So cute. And it says, hi, my name is Madison. I recently started a food and wellness blog called Sunny Times. Although it's still a work in progress, I am so grateful for how much this podcast has already helped me. It encouraged me, most importantly, to actually launch my food blog. The tips and tools discussed on the blog are so helpful. Not only is this podcast helpful in building a blog, but it's also really helpful in refining your life skills such as how to handle setbacks in your life and career. They bring on really reputable, well spoken guests. I come away from each episode feeling incredibly inspired and ready to take action. I love this podcast and Bjork is also an amazing host. He keeps it light hearted while guiding the conversations in a really meaningful, fun way. That is a great review. Thank you so much, Madison. And we hope that this episode also helped you refine those life skills. So from all of us here at Food Blogger Pro hq, make it a great week.