144: Netflix, Everybody Loves Raymond, and Somebody Feed Phil with Phil Rosenthal

In this episode, I talk about one of my favorite books. And then I interview Phil Rosenthal from the Netflix original series, Somebody feed Phil. And the creator of Everybody Loves Raymond. Hey there, everybody. My name is Bjork Ostrom. You are listening to the Food Blogger Pro Podcast and we are excited that you are here. The Food Blogger Pro Podcast is brought to you by WP Tasty, which is the go to place for WordPress plugins. Right now we have two plugins. One is called TastyPins, and it's all about optimizing your images for Pinterest and SEO. And we also have a plugin called Tasty Recipes, which is for anybody that runs a food and recipe site. Every podcast we do something called a Tasty Tip. And the Tasty Tip is brought to you by WP Tasty. And today's Tasty Tip doesn't have to do with anything tech related, but it kind of ties into some of the things that we're gonna be talking to Phil about today. We're gonna be talking a lot about sticking with it, what it's like to be a creative, what it's like to write, storytelling, all of these really important things for anybody that creates content on the Internet. And one of my favorite books on that subject is called the War of Art by an author named Steven Pressfield. And we have some copies of that book that Steven gave us. And this was a while ago, we asked him to be on the pod. He couldn't make it, but he said, I have some books. I would love to send those to your podcast listeners and we would love to send those to you. So we have some books that we can send 10 different books, the War of Art, and would love for you, if you are interested, to enter by either leaving a review on the podcast, which you can do easily from your phone, or a comment on this podcast episode, which you can get to by going to foodbloggerpro.com144. That is the episode number for this podcast. 144. And what you can do is either leave a review on itunes or leave a comment on that blog post and then just drop us a note, podcastoodbloggerpro.com, letting us know that you have entered into the giveaway by either leaving a review or leaving a comment on this episode and then emailing podcastoodbloggerpro.com with the subject giveaway. And then we will pick from those emails the winners and send those books out. Now, if you are overseas, if you're not in the US we still want you to enter and you can do that. We will send you a digital copy of the book, whether via Kindle or your favorite e reader device will send a gift card or a digital version for you to download. And we'll pick out 10 different people and send them a copy of the War of Art. All about how to stay involved with any creative endeavor over a long period of time. Which is exactly the thing that feels going to be sharing today. As well as some fun stories explaining what it was like to create this show. The Netflix original. Somebody Feed Phil, which I have watched. I super appreciate both who he is and also how he talks about what it was like to create this. So excited to share this interview with you. Here is Phil Rosenthal from Somebody Feed Phil, let's jump in. Phil, welcome to the podcast.

Great to be here. How you doing?

I'm doing great. You know, usually with these podcasts we have a long setup time with Skype fine tuning and sometimes people have to set up a username for you. It was a little bit different because you have done this many times before on your show. You are Skyping with your parents every episode. Was that something that you had planned to build in? It's such a magical time in the show.

Oh, thank you. I know people tell me they like the show, but they love my parents.

Yeah.

So I'm wondering why I bother traveling. I could just sit in the kitchen with them.

Right, Right.

But I did a movie about 10 years ago now called Exporting Raymond. It's about me taking the sitcom to Russia to try to help them turn it into Everybody Loves Kostya in Moscow. And I Skyped with my parents from another family's house, a Russian family's house in Moscow. And that became the funniest part of the movie. So when I got this show, I thought, I'm going to Skype with them from every location because first of all, they're funny and you always want that. And second, I feel like the Skype call is the modern equivalent of the postcard home.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a chance for you to connect to say, what's happening. And instead of sending a picture, it is like the actual real time footage of what's happening when you're there.

And I show them what I'm eating, I can point the thing out the window and show them the sights. And they see, they see everything. They get everything I see them, I get. You know, it's a two way street. So it's. It's absolutely fantastic.

Yeah. One of the things that's interesting with your story is that. And this is probably true for a lot of creators, that as they go through the process of creating their art, whatever that might be, there's little pieces that you pick up along the way and say, hey, this works. There's something here. And for you, I would be interested to go back even before Everybody Loves Raymond. What was your first few steps into creating, into writing, into storytelling?

Watching TV as a kid and going to movies? That's it. I fell in love with the world. I'm old enough to say that. When I was four years old, Mary Poppins came out.

Sure.

Right. And so I went to that movie, maybe it was the first movie I ever saw. And I was just completely enchanted by it. And I said, I'd like to do that. I'd like to live there better than where I was living. And I would watch comedy on television. I would watch the Honeymooners, and I wanted to be them. And I never knew there was writing and directing and producing. I just saw the people, fell in love with the people, wanted to be with those people or be those people.

Yeah.

So in school, I started acting out in class. And the. The only healthy channel for that is the school play.

Sure.

And then I'm in the school plays, and then I'm in college, and I want to major in that. And I never wanted to be a serious actor. I just wanted to be funny, because that's what I value, humor. I loved it. I loved it. My parents are funny. You can see that. And everybody who was ever on TV or in movies who made me laugh, I wanted to be them.

And in. In your journey, one of the things that I would say, you can compare and contrast with other people who I'm sure saw those same movies, saw the same TV shows, and probably had the same feelings of, I want to do this. I'm interested in being this person. You. You took that path and walked that path. So as you look back at that, are there things that you can point to and say, here are the risks that I took or the mindset that I had as I ventured down that path. Because it can seem easy, right? Like you are in plays and then you're in college and pursuing that, and then you do writing. But there's also risks involved along with that journey. And as a creator, what were those risks that you feel like you had to take? And can you pinpoint those moments if you look back?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. The risks are you're going to spend a lot of time not doing what you love doing. So in other words, if we live in a world where everybody wants to do this, you're in for a lot of competition. To be honest, I couldn't handle it. Once I graduated from college, the acting life, it was miserable. I couldn't even get an agent because I didn't have the stomach for it. In high school and college, you audition and if you're any good at all, you get the part. Yeah, I was a huge star in my high school. I was a superstar in high school and a star in college. And then I graduated and moved into New York City and guess what? Nobody cared. That's a bit of a wake up call for any young person. Now you're in the real world, Right? And so I'm auditioning, trying to get auditions. I'm looking for auditions. They can't even get them unless you have an agent. And you can't have an agent until you're in something and they see you. So how do you do it? It's just struggle, struggle, struggle. Many, many odd jobs for years. I'm not talking about, oh, you have a few months of hard life, years of nothing, years of waiting, years of. And then you get a tiny role in a play in a warehouse in a terrible neighborhood. And your parents come to see how, let's see how their investment paid off in your theater degree. And you have one line in some terrible Shakespeare thing in the winter, and it's freezing in the warehouse and they're sitting there all bundled up with their coats, and you go, and the play is terrible. Yes, that's acting. That's 99% of acting.

Yeah, it sounds like you're speaking from personal experience at that.

Of course I am. Of course I am. And it wasn't until desperation, and I'm talking about desperation, that took years in the making. Some of us in college got together and wrote something for ourselves to be in. Why it took us years and years and years to get to this point, I don't know. But sometimes, like they say, necessity is the mother of invention. We wrote a show for ourselves to be in, and that became a hit. Now, it could have been that after years and years and years, we write a show for ourselves to be in and it becomes terrible, right? But this one didn't. This one worked. And suddenly we were working. And suddenly we were the toast of the town. And then another friend of mine came to my house with a word processor in 1987 or 8 and said, let's write a screenplay. And we wrote a screenplay, not knowing what we didn't know. And we sold it to HBO for thousands of dollars. Like, I went from being 100 to a thousand air.

Yeah. Which is a big jump.

And I went from eating tuna fish for dinner to eating whatever I wanted. And so the transition into writing was made evident to me. Oh, maybe this is what I should do. Sometimes life presents you with what you're supposed to do. Right. So maybe you don't try to be one of millions and millions of actors trying to make it. There's only one thing slightly more stable than acting, and that's writing.

Right? Yeah.

The only other.

It's interesting because one of the things I appreciate with that story is that you are pursuing it and doing it. And I think that's one of the things that's hardest to do, is to continually show up, but then also being present to the other alternative paths that are presented to you as you are doing that. And for you, that pivot happened with writing. And then you get into writing. You create Everybody Loves Raymond. It's a huge success. And it's interesting to see you now, in this stage of your career, shift a little bit and then be back in front of the camera a little bit more. So do you feel like that in shooting this series with Netflix, somebody feed Phil that you are able to scratch that itch that has been an itch for a long time, or did that go away and do you feel like now you are. It is a different, different thing that you are pursuing with it, or has that always been there and now you're able to fulfill that? In a way.

The more I learned about every aspect of the business first in college, where even though you're studying to be an actor, you're taking playwriting classes and directing classes, and you're directing plays and you're writing things for yourself to perform, or writing essays and writing little plays, you are learning all the. And I tell everyone in this field, if you're a writer, take an acting class. If you're an actor, take a writing class. If you're a writer, take a directing class. If you're a director, take an acting class. Because they're all connected. They're all branches off the same tree. And if you make the branches stronger, the trunk grows stronger. Right. So you. You want. And. And when I became a showrunner, I was pretty good at it because I had the disciplines in my head, all of them. I could approach a problem on stage from an acting point of view, a writing point of view, or a directing point of view. It wasn't always Like I'd been on other shows where if scene wasn't working, we went back to the writer's room and wrote till three in the morning, rewriting a scene that maybe didn't need to be rewritten. If we had just said to the actors, you know, if you stand over there and you're next to the person, then that line works better and the scene works better. And maybe it was just a staging thing. Right. Or an acting thing. If you say it like this or if this is your attitude in the scene, the whole scene's going to work. So this was. I got a very well rounded education. And to get back to your original question right now, it's very satisfying for me doing what I'm doing right now because I actually love every aspect of show business. Acting, writing, directing, producing, editing. Right. I love it all. I love every aspect of the business except the business. In show business. In show business, the business gets in the way of the show. So I don't like the business part. It's the actual obstacle to getting to do what you want. Right. And there's tons of waiting and miserable, lonely times waiting for your project to go or waiting for to learn the fate of any given project. It's agony. But once it's going and once you do it, there's no greater joy for me. But this is a judgment call for everybody. Right. So not only do I love all these aspects of show business that I'm getting to exercise in this show, but the show itself, the content of the show is everything else I love in life. Family, friends, food, laughs, travel. So the show is about all that. So this is like almost the pinnacle of my stupid existence, that I'm getting to exercise everything I love in show business and everything I love in life all in one thing.

Yeah. You know, one of the things that's so engaging about the show is you, obviously you are the main character of the series and of each episode. Thank you. And in reading reviews, which overwhelmingly positive, and watching it myself, that's something that you're drawn to. And I know a lot of the people that listen to this podcast are creators as well. They are writers, they are maybe in front of the camera. And I'm curious to hear you talk about how you approach that your character of Phil on somebody feed Phil. And is there a character dynamic? And, and if so, how do you develop that?

What a great question this is. You know, I. I'm older now, so I understand what my personality is. The first time I was in something as myself was this Movie. I'm talking about exporting Raymond. Right. Sometimes you'll be. You'll be on stage. Like we. We would go around the country while Raymond was on, and writers, we would. As writers, we would talk about the show. We devised this show where we would each tell a personal story of something horrible that happened to us at home and then illustrate the story with a clip from Raymond that that story became. Right. So as we were doing this, you're kind of becoming not a character, but you have a Persona that is. And you're getting laughs with that Persona on stage. It's kind of. Kind of a performance, but it's kind of not. You're just telling a story about who you are, but you're realizing, oh, this is. I guess the audience is reflecting back to you who you are.

Yeah. Whether you like it or not.

Yes. It's a type of theater. The way I sold this show was with a complete understanding of who I was, and that was this. I said, I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain. If he was afraid of everything.

Yeah. Which people can relate to, I think. Which is kind of what I was getting at with the original question of the draw to it is, I think when you watch Anthony Bourdain, you think, man, I am so boring.

Exactly.

Right. I wish I could be cooler.

Yes. He's cool. He's a superstar. He's an adventurer. He's a daredevil. All the things I'm not. I watch his show and I go, he is amazing. I'm never doing that. Right.

Whereas with somebody feed Phil, you watch it, and. And I feel like I can do this.

That's exactly the point of the show. I thought people at home who were my couch mates would say, if that putz can go outside, maybe I can too. And so I found a niche for myself, which is everything. Right. I understand when I edit the show, I have to look at that guy right in the back of my head. Yes. I'm not crazy. I know it's me. But I'm also looking at that guy trying to be objective and saying, this is funny to do to him. If an elephant, you know, hits him in the head with his tail, I understand why that's funny. It would be funny happening to everybody.

Right.

And it wouldn't be quite as funny happening to Bourdain because he's not as schleppy as me.

Sure. And. And you're referring to this great scene in. In the first episode where. And I think one of the funny things, too, compliments to like, building up to this moment is how that's edited is there's this really st. Strong contrast.

Right.

Where you talk about kind of becoming one with the animal herd. And, like, they kind of start to come. They. They like, are getting close to you and you feel like a family, and then you kind of get smooshed and then you have to back out and then one whips you in the head with its tail.

Yes. So obviously we caught that moment on camera. None of the stuff you just mentioned had been written at all. This was an accident that happened, by the way. You have to get lucky. You're making a documentary if that camera is off to the left or off to the right or at another angle or didn't get it. We don't have that comedy moment that happened to be in the right place for that moment. So you have that moment. It's hilarious. What is the best way. Using everything I've learned from doing a sitcom. Right. What is the best way to set that up so that you laugh the most and then the writing comes in.

Yes. And the writing happens. Is made easier. I would assume, because of your understanding of who you are communicating yourself to be. Not only because of who you are, but. But also because of who you want to magnify on the show, so to speak. To creators that are thinking about who they want to project themselves to be, who the character is that they want to communicate to other people, what would your advice be to them in order of refining that and understanding who they are better?

How strong is this point of view? How strong is it? Is it like. Like they always say, you have to have a protagonist with a strong desire, a strong want. Right. Here's what's strange. What does Ray Romano. What does Ray Barone want in Everybody Loves Raymond? It's very odd. He wants to be left alone. That's a very odd thing for a protagonist. It's an anomaly that happened to work because if you're gonna be that, you better be really funny at that. And he is right. And you have to be surrounded by very, very strong other characters who will not leave him alone. So that was the dynamic. But it's odd to have the person in the middle not want anything.

And one of the challenges then for somebody who is developing a character, whether it be themselves or others, is figuring out what does this person want and how do they communicate that desire.

Exactly. So in somebody feed Phil. I know what I want. I want you to travel. Every single moment of that show is designed to get you to travel. I'M using food and hopefully humor as the way to hook you as the way in. I happen to be in love with food. I think a lot of the world is in love with food. I know that when I plan a vacation, I'm planning where to eat first, But I also know that that's not even the best part of traveling. The best part of traveling are the people you meet.

Yep.

But the way to get me to the country is how good is the food?

Yeah. Yes.

First.

Yes.

Because first I want to eat. If I'm going somewhere, I want the food to be great because I love it so much. But every single time, Every single time, no matter how great the food is, it's the people that will remain with you forever.

Yes.

And the experience will remain with you.

Exactly. And the perspective gained from that experience and those people.

You got it. So for me, this is the most important show in the world.

Yes.

And that's what I. That's how I have to view it.

Yes.

To make it any good at all, for it to be important to you at all, I have to see it as very, very, very important.

There's a. There's a line in the first episode where you're trying a unique fruit. I forget what it is, but you take it out and you say, I'm so glad I tried this durian. Okay. Yes. I'm so glad I tried this, because now I'm not afraid. And. And I feel like that is such a good example of what I understand the show to be about is trying things. So you're not afraid, and I'm.

You take a baby step out of your comfort zone.

Yeah.

That is all of life. That is how we grow in any aspect of our life. Oh, I don't know. Will I be any good at this? I don't know. Why don't you try it? Will this taste good? I don't know. Why don't you taste it? We're not two years old. If we're allowed to take a bite of something and not like it, we don't have to finish it. But we all have this, like, child inside of us. Like, what if I don't like it? Yeah. So. So what?

Yes. Yes.

And my wife used to say to my kids, when they said, we don't want to eat that, they said, you'll have a no, thank you bite. You're going to have a no, thank you bite.

Meaning.

Meaning you're going to taste it, and then if you don't like it, you're going to say, no, thank You?

Yes. One of the things that I think about whenever I have any type of big change or when I'm contemplating something new is not thinking about it as a permanent change. But, hey, why don't I try this for a week, two weeks, experiment, and then see what comes of it?

Exactly right. Exactly right.

To go back to the fruit. So you try it. You say, I'm so glad I tried it, because now I'm not afraid. I'm curious to know, for you, within this show itself, are there things that you were afraid of and in doing so, are now no longer afraid of them? And what are those?

Elephants.

Okay. Yeah. Elephant tails.

Elephants. To be surrounded by elephants. I mean, you see it in the show. I am not thrilled. I thought, I'm gonna go meet an elephant.

Yes, right.

I'm gonna go see an elephant. Or maybe I'd see a bunch of elephants. But. But I wasn't expecting to be suddenly surrounded by elephants walking towards me and surrounding me. It was very claustrophobic and actually felt like the scene in Jurassic park where things start to go wrong.

Right.

And so I was nervous. I don't do this. This is not who I am. I've never done this before. And they're still wild animals. I'm not, you know, if I. By the way, if I was surrounded by dogs, I would feel the same way. But these are elephants. They're 10ft tall. So, yes, that took some adjustment. But don't, you know, before, you know, I'm with an expert who's guiding me, and before you know it, I'm in love. I'm in love with the experience. It's magical. Listen, I had to eat ants, right, in an episode. I don't want to do that. I'm not Mr. Eat Bugs. I don't want to eat bugs. I really don't. The whole idea freaks me out. But I was in a restaurant. This is in. I'll have what Phil's having, the PBS show that is also available on Netflix. I'm sitting in Tokyo. I don't know if you saw this. Did you see this?

Not this one, no.

Okay, so I'm in Tokyo. I'm at a very great restaurant. I'm sitting at a counter. They're serving you, like, a sushi bar. And he makes a salad. And the salad looks fantastic. And there's a little branch. It looks like a branch of a tree. And one ant is at the top of the tree and the other ant is at the bottom, as if it's about to climb up. And I thought, they were plastic. I thought it was a decorative thing. No, these are real ants. Oh, really? That's funny. They're decorative. No, no, you eat them. No, you eat them. I don't eat them. Yes, you eat them. Taste them. They taste like lemon. Oh, well, in that case, could I have some lemon?

Yeah. How about just lemon itself instead of something that tastes like lemon. Yeah.

Especially a bug that I'm supposed to put in my mouth.

Right.

And the lay with a lady and she pops them in her mouth and she goes, they're fantastic. I'm like, what is happening now? I have to admit, maybe the only reason I did this. Nah, I think I would have done it because I'm in Japan and I'm following my own rule, which is. Try it.

Yeah.

Is it so revolting that you. You know, I've heard way more revolting things than Anne. Right. And. But I was going to say that the cameras are on and you get a tiny bit braver because the cameras are.

Right, Right.

You're also feeling like, what could happen to me? I'm on a television show. Yeah.

There has to be some type of safety. Yeah, exactly. Right.

Which I'm sure people have said right before they die.

Yes.

And so I did it. And it took a lot of courage to bite down on that thing. There was a tiny crunch, which is. Sounds disgusting. I know. And damn if it didn't taste exactly like someone put a drop of lemon on your tongue.

Yeah.

And so now the questions. Okay, what did you do? Base these in lemon? No. What? What? Why? And he says, these particular ants, not every ant, but these particular ants from this particular place taste like lemon. Absolutely fascinating. Absolutely amazing. Now am I on the search for more ants to eat?

No.

But that was so interesting and so cool, and I'm so glad I had the experience because now I can tell you about it. Yes, it's interesting. It makes not just the show better. It made my life a little better. Yes. I have done this. Yes. I was brave enough to eat an ant.

Yes. Yeah. And it becomes part of the story, and it becomes part of your story. And. And in kind of a goofy, strange way, it makes the world a little bit better. Right. Like, your perspectives are broader. You've connected with somebody that you otherwise wouldn't connect with. And therein lies one of the beautiful things about food and travel.

One of the things my favorite scene in that episode is at the end. I go to this family's restaurant and they specialize in eel. Okay. Also not the food. I seek out the most but they're grilling different eels in different ways. And I'm eating this perfectly fine eel is just like fish. It's fine. And at the end of the meal, there are six of us. And to be honest, the scene was fine. I didn't really have a great connection with this family, mainly because of the language barrier. And, you know, I didn't have a lot in common, which happens. And I spoke to. We took a little break, and I spoke to my brother, the producer and the director of the show, and I said, I guess we should. We've been here a while. Let's wrap it up. You know, not every scene is gold. Maybe we won't use this scene. Let's just wrap it up. I'll say goodbye to the nice people. And just before we started rolling again, I asked the grandpa, what do you do for fun? And he says, we have champagne night, right? And I said, what's that? They said, I love champagne. And every Wednesday, I take out a vintage bottle of champagne and we drink champagne. And I said, that's fantastic. The whole family together. Yes. I said, that's funny. In my family, we have egg cream night, Right. Which is a Jewish Brooklyn thing, which is. You know what an egg cream is?

No, but I'm excited to hear about it.

Okay. So they looked at me like, what? What is that? Now, this is something that every Jewish household in New York, on the east coast, they know what an egg cream is. And I explained to them what it is, as I'll explain it to you right now. It is some chocolate syrup. Usually foxes, you bet. Or Bosco or whatever you happen to have. You put it at the bottom of the glass. You fill about a third of the way of the glass with milk. You stir it, and as you stir it, you add seltzer or sparkling water as you're stirring it. And a chemical reaction happens in that. A head of foam, like a beer, forms at the top. And some pharmacist or drugstore in the 1910s or 20s dreamed up the name for this magical, frothy creation called an egg cream, as if it was luxurious. And all it is is basic chocolate soda.

Yeah. With branding. It's a good branding.

Beautiful branding.

Yeah.

They look at me like this is the wildest. Their eyes lit up when I describe the foam that forms at the top. They were like, oh, like this. And I burst out laughing. They were so adorable. These are. You know, the women were in their kimonos. These are Japanese women and men. And one is a great sushi chef. And One is the grandpa with the eel restaurant. And I turn to my brother and my producer and my director, and I say, oh, my God, what I wouldn't give to make them chocolate egg creams right now. They said, you know, Phil, we're not in the jungle. There's a grocery store across the street in Tokyo. We can get these things. I get it. Get it right now.

Yeah.

But to me, making egg creams for this family and them either, you know, some of them loved it. Some of them thought it was so strange it tickled their nose. You see it? I want you to watch this episode because it was so joyous and so fun. And here's the thing. We think we go to this land. What do I have to offer anybody? Right. I'm there to absorb their culture. You never think you have something to offer them. You're there for you. You think you're there to just see how strange and wonderful the other place is. You never think, oh, they might be interested in your culture or you have anything in your background that might be of value to anybody. This is the magical moment. This is the thing where you have the true connection. This is the best scene in maybe the whole series because of this connection that was made over something silly and wonderful as a chocolate egg cream.

Yeah. And. And sometimes it is those tiny, small things and the leap of faith that it takes to say, okay, I'm going to go out on a limb a little bit and put myself out there, share this story, and then also move forward with it and say, I'm actually going to. Let's go out and get this and make this. So for those that are. Would naturally be people that wouldn't engage in a situation like that, that would be less drawn to put themselves in a situation where they're outside of their comfort zone or that's challenging for them. What would your advice be? And it can be from a creative perspective or just from a travel perspective. Broadening horizons.

The best. I was going to say. Right as you started to talk, I forgot to say something. The reason that I'm able to maybe think like that, because the best class I ever took, and that was an improv class. I recommend it to everyone, no matter what they do in life, because the number one principle of great improv class is two words. Yes. And have you heard this?

Yeah. And one of the greatest contrasts of that is there's an Office episode where Michael Scott's in an improv class and he does the exact opposite of it.

Exactly. Of course he would.

Yeah. So.

But they're telling you the same thing.

Yes.

So. Yes. And turns out to be the most wonderful philosophy of life, besides being the rule of improv. So for those of you who don't know. Yes. And means you're in a scene with someone else and they say, can you believe our car broke down on the side of the road? And you acknowledge that that's what the scene is about and then add to it.

Sure.

So, yes, our car broke down and the only thing we have to eat is our dog.

Yes.

Right. So that. And now you have maybe a scene.

Right. Yes.

And the next person acknowledges that that's true and adds to that. And that's how life goes. Not, our car broke down on the side of the road. No, it didn't.

Yeah.

Now where are you in the scene? You're nowhere.

Yeah.

And so this turns out to be the key to life. The key to life. Yes. And.

And adding to situation. So let's say that you are having a conversation with somebody. It's going along with what they're saying, building on that and. And trying to go deeper with that. So.

Yes. How are you adding to the conversation?

Yes. And as writers, what does that look like? So for you as a writer, let's say, or even on the editing side of things, like as you are crafting things, how do you implement kind of an improv mindset? A. Yes. And a mindset in a way where maybe you aren't interfacing with a person, but it's more of the work that you're doing.

Okay. So just naturally gave the best example, the elephant. And you said the way we set it up, that's a perfect example of. Yes. And yes. We have this funny moment with the elephant. We saw that we captured an elephant hit me in the head with its tail. So, yes, we're using that, obviously. And how we. How can we maximize that moment?

Yes.

What if we added to that moment by setting you up for the unexpected?

Yeah.

And I could have said. I could have said, now watch this. An elephant's gonna hit me with its tail. That's not so funny. If. If. Then that. Then we show it to you. That might be a little funny. But, you know, if I set it up like, yes, the elephants love me now. Right. I'm one of the herd. Then you see that you certainly. That's the last thing you. You thought maybe you'd see an elephant. Give me a kiss. No, elephant hit me in the head.

Yeah. And part of it seems like becoming acquainted with or aware of and fine tuning Your ability to discover gems and. And then really drawing those out. And I feel like that elephant scene is a real gem.

Where.

Well, there's a. There's a podcast that I listened to called Startup and it's a somebody who's formerly with npr. Alex Bloomberg was his name. And there's this scene where he's trying to pitch his startup idea to a venture capitalist investor. And it's just this really great gem and building around those. And it makes me think about what are the, what are the gems in the things that I'm creating and how can I really draw those out and build around those? And I would assume in a lot of ways, when you are shooting, especially documentary style film that or show that what you're doing is intentionally setting up situations to try and unearth gems.

Exactly right. So what we're doing is not only do we want to find the best places to eat in each place we want to have, the show is trying to do many things at once. It's a hybrid of a show. It's unusual because most food shows are food shows and the deep dives by serious chefs into food. Or now Anthony Bourdain has evolved into a true journalist and getting into the political and social aspects of every country he goes to. And he does it brilliantly. David Chang has a new show which is Deep Dives into Comfort Food around the World. And it's also great. My show is about food. Yes. Travel, yes, mostly. But it's also kind of a sitcom, it's kind of a sitcom. And you, you, you totally get that because you talked about my quote unquote character. And what we are looking for is obviously good situations to put me in.

Right.

Like what if I was on a horse? Right. What if I had to take a step out of my comfort zone and maybe take a dance lesson? Right. Maybe do things. Because if it's just me eating, it's boring, right?

Yeah.

So if we're eating, I don't want it to be a white tablecloth restaurant where I sit there and have a three hour meal by myself and just describe the food to you. There's other places for that. I want you. That's not the point of the show. The point of the show isn't dissecting the food and analyzing every food. Yes. You're gonna, we're gonna have it. I understand that. This is the building blocks of these types of shows. You have to have the food porn, I get it. And we have it. But it's also travel porn and it's Also, hopefully comedy porn, that you're getting all these things at once. So it's a new type of show. Why exist otherwise if I'm just going to do what everybody else does? The only thing I have that separates me, the only thing I can bring to the table, is maybe this sense of humor that I have.

Yeah. And one of the things that's interesting that I've heard you talk about before is this reality that the show itself had been something that you had thought about and kind of dreamed about for a really long time. And this would be a good subject to wrap up on, because I know there are a lot of people that listen to this that have an idea of a thing. They have an idea of what they want to create, and. And they feel like they feel discouraged because they haven't been able to give life to that. And I know for you, the concept of somebody feed Phil had been a concept that had been bouncing around in your brain for a really long time. And I would love to hear from your experience and to have you speak to the people that have had that same feeling they have. This idea might be a restaurant, it might be a certain type of blog, it might be a podcast, some type of creative endeavor. And they know that they want to do it, but it's still in their. It's in their head. How do you either keep something alive and know when to act on it, or after you've acted on something, give it life so it actually sees people and meets the light of day?

I would not give up. This is not the first. I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this, but the perseverance. Listen, we knock our heads against the wall trying to get a job, right? Any job. And then we knock our heads against the wall trying to get a job in the field we want. But sometimes that's not satisfying either, because this isn't what you dreamed it would be. So after years of doing that, and when I say years, I'm talking about the years after Everybody Loves Raymond, after I had some success, I'm knocking my head against the wall trying to get another sitcom going, trying to do something else, trying to write screenplays, trying to do everything. And yes, I had a little success with the documentary I made. Yes, I had a little success with the book I did. Yes, I had a little success doing other things, but the dream was always, boy, wouldn't it be nice to have this food and travel show? Because I got so inspired by seeing Ray Romano go to Italy when we shot the Italy show. And I saw that would happen to the character that I wrote of a guy getting woke to the magic of travel. I saw it happen to the person. And since the year 2000, I wanted to do this for other people because I realized there's no greater high than turning people on to what you love. Right? That's everything. That's what we do in life that we. All we try to do is connect with other people. Hey, if you. If I like this and you like this, then we're friends. That's it. So this was always in the back of my mind. Now how did it, how did I get it to manifest itself? Well, I tried it out a little. I sold the idea to somebody, a very cheap company that just filmed a couple of scenes with me and a buddy. I thought maybe if I had a buddy. And we went around and that was okay. Nothing great. Nobody wanted it. Then some chef said, hey, you want to come with me to this place and we'll have a show? Said to me, I'm like, yeah, this is what I've been dreaming of. Yeah, great chef. And we went and filmed like a 10 minute test reel. Nobody wanted it. I learned from that. Then another company said to me, I'm giving you all the steps because I think it's important.

I think it's extremely valuable.

Yeah, okay, so then I get this. I never stop talking about this. Yes, I'm working on other things, but I never stopped talking about this. And so now, okay, we're going to do a week in London with a famous chef and we're filming it for American Express. Okay. I thought this was the show. I thought this was going to be the show. It wasn't the show. They had no intention of making it a show. They were going to take scenes from what we shot and have card member experiences for rich people. I'm like, what the hell is that? And I did like 27 restaurants in seven days with a famous chef. And it was a torture. And guess what? From all these three or four other experiences in the food world, I got a very good idea of what not to do, which turned out to be extremely valuable in pointing me towards what to do. We learned just as much, if not more from what not to do as what we do when we hit it. And so by the time I got to pbs, I knew exactly what the show should be. And this show, somebody feed Phil is exactly the other show. It just has higher production values being on Netflix now. And I have a theme song. That's the big difference.

Sure.

And hopefully I got a tiny bit better at doing this, because now we've had some experience.

Yeah. And I think it's so valuable to hear those steps, because what happens for the average consumer of media is we'll see a new show on Netflix, and you pull it up and you're like, oh, this is good. That must be really cool to be able to suddenly do this show without having any of the context of what it took for you to get there. And I think the other thing that sometimes happen is, you know, you'll see in the little. The trailer as it. As it starts like, oh, from the creator of Everybody Loves Raymond. Like, that must have been super easy for him, because he did Everybody Loves Raymond. And then. So then he just does this if he wants to. But to hear 10 years.

Yeah, 10 years to get this. This little thing that seems like. Like. Oh, just a. Just a whim.

Yeah. Well, and I think what it is, right, you work hard for 10 years, and then you're an overnight success. And I think that can happen when you don't have the context of the full story. And it's one of the things that we try and talk about often on this podcast is the amount of time, dedication, and energy that goes into it. And that's why it's so important that it is something that you love, which you can hear so clearly in your voice, Phil, as you talk about this, that not only is this a creative outlet for you, but it's also a passion project in that it makes the world a better place by encouraging people to travel. Or for those who can't travel, it gives them a tiny little portal to get to those places to see other people and to see the smiles on other people's faces and to connect in a way that we maybe wouldn't otherwise, which I think is immensely valuable.

Well, yeah. Again, we spend our life knocking our heads against the wall to get the job.

Yes.

Do it for the job you really, really, really want.

Yeah. And I think that's a great note to wrap up on. But before we do, Phil, can you talk about where people can follow along with you online? And then obviously checking out Somebody feed Phil on Netflix, which they can do just by a simple search. On Netflix.

Right. Somebody feed Phil on Netflix. I'll have what Phil's having. The PBS show Netflix also happens to carry, so there's six additional episodes. If you've already seen the six on this. Waiting for more. The struggle never ends. Right. I'm still fighting for more to keep going so that I Got to do that. Exporting. Raymond is also on Netflix about the journey to Russia, which is one of the genesis points for this.

Yeah. And just a quick rabbit trail for those that aren't familiar. That's the story of the. The attempt to translate literally and figuratively Everybody Lives Loves Raymond into To Russia.

And Russia's topical again. So it's.

Yes.

So we have it. But it really is. And it's really funny because I thought I was an expert in something, meaning my show, and I went to a land where nobody cared.

Yes.

Right.

Instant loss of credibility. Like you just don't have that. Yeah.

Very humbling. But if you want to follow me on Twitter, I'm Rosenthal. Just Philrosenthal and Phil Rosenthal on Instagram. And then I'm on Facebook and I think there's a website coming for everything I'm working on, including a travel guide of every place we go in the show.

Awesome.

I think that's going to be called philrosenthalworld.com cool.

And when that comes out, we'll be sure to link to that in the show notes as well for people that listen to this after the fact. Phil, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Truly a gift to be able to talk to you for a little bit and to watch through all the different content that you've created through the years.

I love talking to you. Thank you so much.

Thanks.

Hey, friends, wasn't that a fun interview? Phil is just such a fun guy, and I really think that my fellow food fans that are listening right now would really get a kick out of somebody. Feed Phil and I'll have what Phil's having. There's actually an episode of I'll have what Phil's Having where he has David Leibovitz on, and he was on the podcast just a few episodes ago. He's one of the very first food bloggers. So it's just a fun little tie in to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. But now it is time for our reviewer of the week. And this one comes from Katie from Black Fern Kitchen, and it says, I just started listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast and only three episodes in, but I love it. Some great useful tips so far and I'm looking forward to making my way through the rest of the episode. Great stuff. Thank you so much, Katie. We really appreciate it and we're glad that you're liking it, even if you're just three episodes in. This is our 144th episode already, so you have lots more to look forward to. And remember, if you guys want to enter the giveaway contest, be sure to leave a review on itunes or on the blog post for this episode@foodbloggerpro.com 144 and then email us and let us know that you left a review@podcast foodbloggerpro.com and from all of us here at FBPHQ. Make it a great week.