192: Bootstrapped Cupcakes: How Rob and Jen Built a Successful Business

In this episode, I chat about Pinterest strategies that you may want to be implementing on your blog. And then Bjork interviews Jen and Rob Morris from Cupcakeology about starting and growing their very own bakery. Hello lovely listener. You are listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast and we hope you're having a fantastic day today. Today's episode is sponsored by, you guessed it, WP Tasty, our sister site for WordPress plugins. WP Tasty plugins are built with rock solid tech and SEO practices so that you can focus on content creation, photography and more. You can learn more about WPTasty's plugins@wptasty.com and for today's tasty tip, let's chat about Pinterest, shall we? Pinterest is a long term social media platform, meaning that it can actually take a while for you to see the results of your hard work. So what are the things that you can be doing now in the hopes of seeing those impressive returns in a few months? And that is exactly what this new Pinterest case study post on the wptasty blog is all about. Pinch of Yum implemented some changes into their Pinterest strategy at the advice of simplepin Media, and this post breaks them down, each with the reasons why they're recommended. They There are eight total changes and we won't get into all of them right now, but one of them is increasing the total number of pins that you're pinning to 35 to 40 pins each and every day. These pins will get split between your own boards and group boards. To learn more about the other seven changes, be sure to visit this blog post at wptasty.com recommendations. And now the episode have you ever dreamt of opening up your own bakery or restaurant? Well, Jen and Rob did too. They opened Cupcakeology in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Due to a love of desserts and management, Jen and Rob learned a ton about running their own business and that's what they're here today to chat about. You'll learn about how they overcame the difficulties of starting their own business, how they decided to hire help, and why they eventually started a food blog. This is such a fun interview. I was smiling the whole time I listened to it and I know you'll love learning about their journey. So without any further ado, Bjork, take it away.

Jen and Rob, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you.

Yeah, for sure. So Jen, thanks. We we were trading some emails back and forth and it was funny because I said hey, I think I would really love to have you guys on the podcast to talk about your experience building this bakery and, you know, starting to get into blogging now. And I said, how about we do it? I forget the date that I said, but it was like February 13th or it was like February 15th. And you're like, well, is it possible that we can put you back just a little bit? Because this is like, literally the busiest day. Is that true? Is Valentine's Day? Yeah. Is that the busiest for you guys?

It's the second busiest day. I'm like, are you kidding?

He can't do.

It.

Would literally be you interviewing while also working in the background.

Hold on. I have to pipe this rose really quick. I'll be right back.

So I'm interested to rewind the tape a little bit and hear your story I was reading about on your about page. Kind of how you guys got connected and then how you built this thing together. That's another kind of stuff. Sub story with this that I'm interested in is you working together as a couple. It's something that Lindsay and I do and something that's this great gift and also a challenge at times. We'll hit all of this stuff, but why don't we rewind the tape a little bit and we'll have each of you kind of tell your story up until the point until you met each other and kind of what food looked like for you. You know, maybe it was baking recipes. I know, Rob, you have some industry experience with restaurants, but, Jen, let's start with you. What was your relationship with food? And B, growing up, from the time.

I came out the wound, I think, yeah, I came out the womb. I always loved food. And I started off with the whole Easy Bake Oven situation, Had my first Easy Bake Oven, broke that, got another one for Christmas and decided, okay, mom, dad, can I please use your real oven? Because this light bulb is not cutting it anymore. So I started baking pound cakes. I found a pound cake recipe in my mom's drawer in the kitchen, and I started baking that, and I tweaked it and everything. And mind you, I was about 9 years old at this time. So for Thanksgiving, we hosted, like, all of the holidays. And I used to love to bake little things even before I got to the pound cake. And my one that I can really remember is called Pudding Under a Cloud. I debuted it on one Thanksgiving. And it's simply I just found pudding and put Cool Whip on top and put sprinkles for sure under a cloud.

Yep, yep. I love that. Do you have any of the. From when you were younger, any of the recipes, family recipes or anything like that that are.

I do, yeah. A lot of our recipes we use in the bakery are derived from that. We've changed some things. Rob's changed some things, but a lot of them are based off of that £1 cake recipe.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's what we use a lot. And then we just took it from there.

Yeah. So at any point in your growing up. So obviously, you know, hey, I really enjoy baking. This is something I like to do. I want to own a bakery. Was that ever anything that you kind of realized, you know, at a young age? Like, this would be something I would love to do as a career?

Yes. My dad and I, like, He's the major part of this because he really took my hand. And every Saturday or Sunday, we would go around to bakeries, and it necessarily wasn't in the area. It was just bakeries anywhere. We're in Pennsylvania, so we would grow across the state lines of Delaware, Jersey, and we would like to find different desserts. And even when I was good in school, I think that was a. He liked it maybe more than I did.

Sure.

That was, like, a thing. Hey, you got an A in meth. Let's go get a cake, you know? So I would like to pick the color of the roses. And he would pay an extra quarter for each rose so I can have an extra rose. But he took me to a bakery, a local bakery. He knew a guy who owned it, and he let me go in his kitchen in the back. And I will never forget, just flour all over the place, sugar all over the place. And it was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And I really wanted to, when I grew up, open a bakery, but I never knew that you can really make a living off of it. I mean, everybody talks about doctor, lawyer, you know, accountant, but I never really heard, like kids do now, that, hey, I can really make a good living owning my own bakery.

Yeah, that's awesome. And eventually got to the point where he said, okay, we're going to do this. We're going to try this, and we'll get to that point eventually. But, Rob, I want to hear a little bit about your story. I know that on your end, from the research I've done, from hearing your story a little bit, that you were involved in the restaurant industry in some sense, and I'm guessing that plays a huge role kind of in your story in launching the bakery.

It really does. You can. You can be whoever you want to be, you know, when you put your mind to it. Because I actually started off as a dishwasher. You know, I would look at the guys in the back through the small window and they order up, order up. And this was in old country buffet.

Yep.

Which was at all you can eat restaurant, you know.

Really? Yeah, for sure. We would as when I would do school trips for soccer, there was a chant we would do and I still do it with my friends where we chant O, C, B O, C, B because that's where we wanted to go. Totally familiar.

Right there with you was awesome. But the thing about the food is that, you know, it was made in such large quantities, but it had the gourmet feel to it in the old style home cooking. And I was just so intrigued by it, you know, And I did the best I could with those dishes. And one day my manager said, you know, would you like to actually work in the back? I'm like, sure, yeah, I would love to work in the back. But that's where he put me as a dishwasher.

It's kind of a lateral move.

So he put me on the machines. And, you know, as I started working with the big machines, they gave me a chance to start off as a prep person. And to me personally, the prep person is the most important. You know, you're basically getting everything together for the next day. And the cook, the line cook just comes in and does what he do. So, you know, I worked my way up. I became a prep cook, I worked in a salad area. Then I became a line cook. Then I took over the bakery. They actually let me manage the bakery. And I loved the bakery. I had so much fun in the bakery. The recipes, I had this knack with recipes. I remember them, you know, and everyone will be like, well, where's your recipe at? And I tell them it's in my head. Yeah, it would come out so great. And my boss seen that one day and before you know it, I was the complete kitchen manager in the back. And it was just awesome. It was so awesome.

When you look back at that, obviously that's a huge change from going to the kitchen manager from washing dishes. What do you attribute to mindsets that you had? Things that you're really intentional about? What were the things that, like, if you had to distill it down, the core characteristics, Because I'm guessing those same things exist with starting a business. It's just like this thing that you own, then sort of distill it down. What are those things that worked Whether it was a job and excelling in that or starting your own business and excelling in that.

As, as, as a manager, I was able to separate myself from the food for a little bit and see the other side of things. You know, I always thought that the manager was in charge of, you know, everything. The food, the people, the ordering. And you know, when I was able to see the business side of separated the food and you know, I realized that, you know, management is something totally different. You know, I got to take a couple management classes and courses and they sent me away and everything. So I learned the business aspect of it and that's what, what, what helped us out with cupcakeology, you know.

Yeah.

When you put those two fundamentals together, you have a non stop train coming right at you.

Yeah. And when you say those two things, you mean the understanding of food and high quality recipes and the product along with the business element, because everything. Yeah. So people will have sometimes one or the other really good food and then terrible business or great business and then terrible food. And that could be for product or whatever it is. Pairing those two things together, you can really find success. So on the business side of things, what were some of the things that you remember, some of the core takeaways that you were able to apply to cupcakeology?

Some of the core takeaways, one of the most important was food safety. Food safety was very important. And learning how to rotate your stock and certain temperatures and getting your employees to work together and produce the same product time after time. Quality control, just. Oh, it's just so much.

Those are some of the questions that I am curious to ask you about. Specifically. I had a note here about creating your own branded product that you sell. Not just like to go food, but you guys have. I was watching an interview you did where you talk about, I think it was some of the batter that you're selling and then what that's like to productize that. So we'll get there eventually. But Jen, take us to the point then where it's. We've talked about Jen's story, we've talked about Rob's story. At what point does it become Jen and Rob?

Jen and Rob business or Jen and Rob marriage?

Let's do both. I think both are interesting.

Jen and Rob started at ocb. Jen and Rob started at ocv. We just became great friends. He was there first and I came in as a. What was that? Hostess. Yeah, I came as a hostess and then moved to cashier. I really wasn't interested in going in the kitchen at that point, just because I kind of moved away from food for a little bit. But we became very good friends. He's funny, and he made me laugh all the time. But then just life separated us for a couple of years, and then we had a mutual friend who kind of connected us back together about four years later. And then after that, we were inseparable. And we just loved. Like, our favorite thing to do was get together, get a couple of drinks and tacos or some kind of really good food and just watch a really good movie. And I feel like our relationship's always been based around food, because food just. It was our comfort. It was our happy time, you know?

Yeah, for sure. That's really cool. That's cool to hear your story. One of the things that's. Lindsay and I, we talk about this. So she. We grew up in the same small hometown. She was a hostess at Perkins. And I remember often going out with our group of friends, and she would work, like, super late hours, which she was like 15 at the time. And I feel like it was borderline illegal. Like, she'd be like, wait a minute, can you be 15 and working till 1am but we'd go out with our friends and connect up. And so we kind of have similar stories of kind of knowing each other through. It was the same small hometown. But she talks a lot about being hostess at Perkins. So curious to know then, as you guys are hanging out, as you're having these conversations, getting to know each other more. I'm guessing at some point there is this business idea that comes up. Take us back to that point and what did that look like, and how did the idea start to form between both of you?

Well, he'll tell you that it's been many businesses.

Yes, for sure. I can relate to that.

I know. I always. I just can't stand the monotony of doing the same thing over and over.

Again for somebody else.

For somebody else, but for someone else. So we went through many businesses. I was a realtor at first. Then he got his home inspection license, and so we kind of worked that together for a while. And then after that, was what you.

Did a lot of mortgage?

Yeah, mortgage. Selling mortgages. And then we finally got to, I think, what it was when I worked. I worked in Center City, Philadelphia, and I brought home cupcakes or baked goods, like, every night. Right. And then on the weekends, we're like, well, where do we get a good cupcake or something good to eat? They were terrible around.

They were there. But they weren't good.

Yeah. So we're like, well, why don't we start something in the neighborhood, you know, since we can't find anything. And I think that's where it came from. That's where the idea of cupcakeology came from. Cupcakes. We had to think of a name, but we knew that we wanted to sell cupcake.

Yeah, yeah. And so this was almost 10 years ago. Is that right?

That. Oh, longer.

Yeah, that was longer.

Yeah. About 10 years ago. 2011 we started, but 2010.

Yeah, we were into it for a while because I also managed a Perkins. That's funny that you said that about your wife. We have plenty of French silk.

Yes. Yeah, for sure.

And I actually, you know, from the different type of muffins and cookies that they had, that side of the. Of the cooking experience is kind of led a little bit more to cupcakeology for me.

Sure.

Than ocb. OCB was more of a managerial thing, but the Perkins. Yeah, that was where the bakery actually started.

Got it. And so you have some experience literally working in a bakery, seeing what that process is like. They have the. Is it the mammoth muffins? Is that right? So you gotta get some experience with this stuff. So you have this experience. It's kind of come to this point. One of the things that I think is interesting, Jen, as you said, you know, always kind of looking to do something new. You talked about these other jobs that you've had, but you guys have been doing this, like, you've committed to this for a really long time. So 10 plus years that you've been working on it. Obviously it's something that you're committed to. And I'm guessing there's a new thing every day. It kind of evolves, so it's kind of built in that it will always be a little bit different.

Yeah.

But take us back to the point where you said, okay, we're going to do this, we're going to commit to this. What did that look like in the early stages? And to set this up, the context for this, one of the things I want to do as much as possible on this podcast is offer different perspectives on how people can be building their own thing. And we're kind of. We've kind of restricted ourselves by the name of the podcast, Food Blogger Pro Podcast. Really what we want to talk about is entrepreneurial endeavors in the food world. And naturally, online is going to be a big component of that. Like in your case, I'm guessing it really helps that you have 4.7 out of 5 stars out of 200 votes on Facebook and 4.7 stars on Google. Like, online is an important thing, even if you're brick and mortar. So that's the context for framing up this conversation. So to rewind the tape, though, take us back to that point where you said, hey, we're going to start this. What were the early steps that you took? What were the earliest things that you had to do in order to get up and running with a bakery?

Yeah, that was the hardest part because we didn't have any mentors, we didn't have any guidance, anyone saying hey or directing us anywhere. So every little piece, we had to research and figure out. Trial by fire. Right. So that's one of the things that I think was really difficult. However, our passion for starting it kept us going.

What were some of the early fires? So you said trial by fire. And I can, you know, think back to when we were first starting, and it's like, gosh, I had this laundry list of things that I would consider to be fires. But when you look back at the bakery, what were some of those early things? Not necessarily fire meaning, like issues or mistakes, but fire meaning, like, these are really hard things that I have to figure out.

Right? Like, you know, how to get your license, how to, you know, incorporate. I was thinking llc. How, you know, get an llc. What's the most important. How to do your taxes, you know, for us, with the location. Where. Where do we go? Location, location, location. Right. So we had to figure that out. We didn't want to make a mistake with that. Just all of the little things to set up. Like, if it was just one place that we. One resource place. And that's one of the things we want to incorporate on the block too, for sure. To help others, because we had. Just wasn't easy for us. And so that's the main thing, like how to incorporate yourself and how to.

Pay other people and I work at the same time. How do we get it rolling? I'm not making enough money. How do we keep this thing going? You know, the cupcakes are good, but how do we continue to pay so that we can, you know, re up on the production and everything and still.

Get five hours of sleep?

Kids and the children.

Yeah, the job, you know.

Yeah. So what? Those are awesome questions to be asking. And I'm assuming a lot of people are asking those same questions for themselves as it relates to their blog right now or their business or whatever it would be that they. They are working on. So can you take us Back. And number one, how did you go about figuring that out? Like, I think it's interesting to talk about the specific answer, but it's also interesting to hear how people found those answers as they were working through it. What did you find to be most effective in terms of getting answers for some of those questions? If you didn't have those mentors, you.

Have to beat the ground. You know, you have to do the research and you have to put in the work in order to, you know, save money up and get yourself together in order to do what you're trying to do. It's not going to fall in your lap. You know, that was one of the main things that we always knew. So we knew we had to work double time to get everything started and get everything running. And that's what we did. You know, we beat the ground.

Nothing was handed to us. I mean, we didn't even have that much savings. Like, we had to start. And like I said, we started really small. When you think of a bakery, you may think of, like a storefront, something cute and pretty, but we started in an office building, right? So, like, you walk up. Imagine walking up into this communal building with a directory and different office suites. So you're like, am I in a bakery or am I in a. You know, and we had. They had to walk through about three businesses before they got to us.

Yeah.

But that's the only way to start. And I feel like if we waited for the perfect time, we might not have ever started. So I didn't care where we were. I knew that this is where we are. Okay. And when we first opened, we had to get a couple permits. And then our last one, the guys looked at me and said, well, here, you know, we'll license you to open, but you're not going to get any more than about two people in here. I looked at my husband, said, does he know who he's talking to? I am going work my fingers to the bone to make sure people know we are in this little place.

You know what else was good about that, too? Another thing that was good about that was the fact that we actually had core customers. So we knew that people came in and they took part in what we were given, that we had something. You know, when you have people who come into something like that and it's not like a true bakery style, you know, you know, you have a winner.

People have to work a little bit to get there. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. It's worth traveling for or waiting in line or going through three other business locations to get there.

Because some, you know, businesses fail in the beginning when you, you know, you go big with it and the big storefront and 80 different recipes, and you just don't have the recipe to keep everything going. You know, sometimes you have to start off small.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, in the startup space, they talk a lot about, I've mentioned on the podcast before this ide of a minimum viable product. But it's the. Exactly what you're saying, but the, like, online version of that, which is some people work on something for a year and they have their grand opening instead of working on it for a weekend, opening it up, seeing if there's a need for it, if there's interest in really comes down to, like, push versus pull. Like, is. Is there a draw into the business that's so strong that it affirms like, okay, this product that we are creating is good. People are coming to it. They're willing to, like, work for it a little bit. That's when you can start to make it a little bit easier and say, hey, maybe we can get a little bit closer to more people so more people can access this. What did that look like in the early stages as you not only were working on it yourselves, but then thinking about, okay, there has to be a point where we have to bring some other people into it. That's one of the things that's different with something like a bakery, where a lot of people that are building a blog or a website in the early stages, they won't think about hiring until maybe a year, two years, three years down the line. I'm guessing that conversation had to happen a little bit earlier for you. So, Jen, if you think back to those early stages, what was that like to start to think about bringing on team members to hire people? And what would your advice be for other people who are interested in doing that with their business as they think strategically about building a team?

Sure. I think sometimes you can have a need or you can think you have a need. Right. For to bring someone else in. But for us, this is for us. Sometimes you look at your finances and your finances don't say, oh, there's a need yet. Right. So that means in our situation that we weren't pushing ourselves enough. You know, maybe, Jen, you have to get up a little earlier, you know, to get in there to get everything done. Or maybe, you know, you have to figure out a better process for something to get it done quicker, you know.

Yeah, that's so Smart.

Yeah. That's something you can't always just jump and hire because again, business fail really quickly like that things. You'll have slow periods. It's bakery. And every business is cyclical.

Yeah. I think that's so wise to think about what are the. Not necessarily. What are the ways that I can bring somebody in, hire somebody, you know, outsource this. But is there, you had said a system or a process or a tool that I could use that will help me out with this. And you know, the cost of it would be so much lower than what it would be to bring in a team member. And then the other thing that's.

So.

Valuable that you said is maybe I just need to hustle more to the point where I can justify this and bring in somebody else. And there has to be that period where, you know, you had this. I don't. I think this was you, Jen. I'm assuming it's one of you where you could post it about. You said I could complain about having to wake up shortly after midnight every day or be grateful that I get to see the sunrise in illumination with various colors every morning. I think that's just. And that's on your Facebook page. I think that's such a great example of the work ethic involved. And so often people don't think about that or understand that when it comes to the early stages. And like, you're currently in the middle of it, right? Like December of this year, still getting up and working hard and making it work. I think sometimes people don't see that.

That's right.

That's great. So you're at the point now where you've been working on the bakery for a substantial amount of time, and you have some. You have some systems established, you have some of a foundation with it. One of the things that I was curious about is how have you gone about connecting with and getting in front of people from a media perspective? So I saw that you were on a morning news show. I know that you had mentioned being on Steve Harvey or Steve Harvey having one of your cupcakes. What has that been like? And what would your advice be for people to help make connections in media to kind of build in some exposure for their brand or their blog or their business.

I think that came from us being in that small location at first because we had no choice but to get our cupcakes out there because no one riding by is going to see us inside working. So I had to create stories for the media pretty much to come in and highlight us And I would always, you know, peruse the Internet and write funny emails to certain celebrities that had talk shows or, you know, radio shows. And one of them was Steve Harvey. And I think I mentioned something about our cupcakes once they hit his lips, because, you know, Steve Harvey's lips are a big attribute. Right. So once they hit his lift or something. And that got the attention of his producer.

Yeah. So I think that is really interesting. And specifically, you had mentioned the word story. And I think story is so valuable in building a brand or a business or a blog. And I think as creators, we always need to be thinking about our macro story, which is like the story of who we are and what we're about and how we got to be where we are. Kind of almost like the hero's journey. And you guys are kind of describing that in a way with building up the things that you guys have built up. But then there's also the micro story, which I think can be applied to media and making those connections. And I feel like cupcakes offer a lot of fun potential for the micro story. And Rob, I'd be interested to hear you talk a little bit about when you had this morning news show. You had some micro stories around the cupcakes that you're creating and these really unique, kind of crafted to, you know, Philadelphia kind of cupcakes. And I'm interested from a business perspective are those ones that people are coming in and they're like, hey, I'm gonna buy this. I'm trying to think of Philly cheesesteak cupcake. Or is there a micro story in that that allows you to connect with producers and get exposure and kind of have some of these stories told?

That's a great bullet point that you hit when you're in business and you start to think like a business minded person. You have to understand that everybody's in it to gain something, you know, and if you keep that in mind when you're trying to, you know, get in the limelife and whatnot, you have to know certain times of the year people are looking for certain people. You have to know how producers do what they do. And eventually you understand that the people who you see on TV aren't the ones who set this stuff up, you know, and once you get in tune with all that, you'll be able to navigate and get yourself out there at certain times of the year. You know, for instance, you know, Valentine's Day is very important. They need to have these broadcasts on tv. So if you can think of something that will get you out there, you know, like. Like we did with the cheesesteak cupcakes and everything, you know, and it rings their bell. They're gonna call you before anybody, you know, so it's just about navigating the media. Once you get to a certain point where you have the following already and people can speak for your product, they'll come right to you.

Yeah, that's interesting.

It's.

It reminds me a little bit of when you said, they're not the ones setting this up. Meaning, like, you are coming to them and saying, here's an idea that I have for something that we could talk about. Knowing that Valentine's Day is coming up, for instance.

Yes.

That's a really important holiday for you guys. Aligning that and saying, hey, it's gonna be really good if we get exposure for our business.

Yes.

It's also gonna be really good for you, which you talked about. Understanding what other people need.

Yes.

If you have this fun, kind of goofy out there, really interesting topic to talk about, which is, like, these unique cupcakes that we're creating. Yeah. So point being, think if you are interested in doing that for people listening to the podcast, if you're interested in having exposure on media, maybe it's connecting with, you know, local news and having a placement. Think strategically about what can I be giving them, not just, like, how can I go and pitch my stuff on the show.

Exactly. Don't be greedy.

For sure, it reminds me, we did this. It wasn't cupcakes, but it was muffins. We did a morning news show. It was, like, pumpkin muffins way back a few years ago. And it was the. Like, I was a disaster. It was so bad when I watched you guys doing it. You're, like, so natural, and you're there, and it's just, like, perfect family. And I'll have to tell the extended story of it, but there's a couple things that happened with it. Number one was. I don't know what they call it officially, but there's a scene where they show you really quick before they go to commercial break to, like, set up what's coming down the line. So they do this countdown, and I was supposed to be, like, stirring the batter for these muffins, and I was doing it, and then they're like, all right, five. You guys are gonna wave in five, four. And then I looked at Lindsey, and she had, like, a little flower on her shirt, and I. And I went. And I wiped it off, but I had. I had batter all over my hands. And so, like, instead of getting the flour off, I just had this, like, huge streak across her shirt, and they're like, two, one. And then we both, like, turn and wave. And I just, like, totally panicked, too. I was so nervous. It happens. So anyways, a lot of respect for you guys for doing that.

Knocked over all the cupcakes.

Oh, yeah. The last actual shoot that you were talking about, you know, we were setting things up, and, you know, everybody was so ecstatic about the cupcakes, and they were, hurry up. We have five seconds left. But they were still asking us questions, so we're trying to set up and pay attention to them. And I dropped a whole box of cupcakes.

Oh, no.

Yes. I dropped a whole box of cupcakes. And before the cameraman came on, you know, he had to pan other places, and we're rushing to get them put back. It was crazy.

No, you're not alone.

No, you're not alone.

Well, that makes me feel a little bit better, so thank you. So one of the things that I think is interesting with your story is that you've built up this brick and mortar business. You have some success with this. It has a little bit of a foundation under it. And now you're saying, okay, I'm gonna explore other areas and, you know, take something that has been traditionally like a single location bakery, and then starting to tell that story online. And sometimes we'll talk to people. A lot of times we'll talk to people who have an online thing and they make that transition to maybe, you know, a restaurant, physical location. But I'm interested to hear you talk about what the transition has been like for you as you start to think strategically about, okay, being in the early stages of creating a blog and starting to publish some of those recipes online. What was the idea behind that? What was the intent behind that? And what is your hope for as you start to publish recipes online and kind of build this as a new part of your business?

Right. There are actually a few reasons. One being as we started off with cupcakes, Right? And then now, one thing, being a business owner, you have to. Rob told me this too, because, you know, for me, in the beginning, it's like, I want to do this. I want to sell this, because they need to taste this. But he's like, you know, if you want to remain in business, you have to sell what they are willing to buy. Right?

What they want. Right?

Yeah. So we started off with cupcakes, many different flavors. That's the part that I Love, I love creating and blending flavors. So then the market shifts to these crazy cake boss type cakes with fondant everywhere. And you know, I don't want to do it, but that pays the bills.

Yep.

So that kind of takes the flavor away. But I had, you know, I did what I had to do and I rocked at it. And then we moved to our new location and then I said, I'm not doing any more fondant buttercream only. So. But it's shifting in our area more back towards traditional cakes and away from cupcakes. So, you know, I kind of, not that I was losing my passion, but I had to continue to feed my passion with making different recipes and blending flavors and things like that. So that's why I'm like, well, let's just start a food blog. Let me be able to create, you know, different flavors and recipes and things like that and put it out online where I know there's a big market, there's a big world out there, you know, and that's the first reason. And the second reason is because people have followed us. We have such loyal fans. I mean, our fans are amazing and we had a lot that followed us from day one until now. And they often ask, some of them want to start their own business, you know, or they just want to know, you know, maybe figure out how to quit their job and, you know, become a. Not a single mom. Become a mom, a stay at home mom, you know, and how do they finance that? And they ask us business questions all of the time. So that's another big piece of the food blog that we want to put out. We want to have like a resource. Yeah, like giving back and telling our story and, you know, creating just this resource space for them.

Yeah, that's awesome. And you, I would assume it's one of those things where you don't even know what, you know in regards to, to running a business and everything that goes into it. And that happens for us sometimes where people say like, well, how do you do xyz? And it's like, oh yeah, like that's just knowledge that you have that other people don't. And so you're able, able to give back in a way that supports other people, helps other people out and kind of shortens that path a little bit too, to allow them to get up and running more quickly. So curious to hear a little bit about that. When you think of that, do you think of offering that advice in regards to similar paths, like, hey, if you want to start a bakery, if you want to start a retail location or is it more of in business in general? Here are some of the things that we think that you should consider and know as you want to build your own thing.

I think it's more of business in general. People have tons of ideas, and, you know, we like to hear them all. And the crazy thing is, when you're talking about business, there's so many different leagues. So, you know, to steer someone just to a bakery and not help the others is kind of like, you know, we want to help as many as we can, because the model can be applied to anything.

Yeah, for sure.

That's the great part about it, you know, So, I mean, we actually started talking to schools. We go around speaking to the kids, and they're very interested, you know, but the people who are a little further and still are a little confused, it feels good to help them out, because when you give them that direction and they just. They glow, you know, and they come back and they show you their progress, and that kind of warms our hearts because we know how it was for.

Us, you know, And I think, Bjork, going back to what you just said about you not realizing all that, you know, when we started the blog, Loving from the Oven Blog, I know this sounds funny, I initially wanted to kind of separate it and have, okay, we have cupcakeology, brick and mortar, and then let's start this online thing, Loving from the Oven Blog. And let's just kind of start from the beginning. And you know how when you start something, you naturally, you look at others and see what they're doing and how they format it. But he's like, babe, we are already the professionals in business. Why are you separating? He said, you can tell people, you know what we know you can give back. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I didn't even realize that. We do know a lot about this process. We just don't know food blogging per se. But we know a lot behind it that food bloggers have to learn initially, and we already have that knowledge.

So, yeah, it's interesting. I think one of the things that is a universal truth with any. Any skill or, you know, expertise is it's almost. It almost takes a few years to be in it in order for you to feel comfortable saying, like, oh, I know enough to just kind of do my own thing. But it feels like, I think in the early stages of anything, it feels like there's, you know, rules and in terms of how exactly stuff has to happen, and you're in it long enough and you're like, well, there, you know, obviously are rules and, and, you know, we have processes that we have to follow and stuff, but in terms of, like, best practices, there's kind of general guidelines for things, but also people have opinions, people do things drastically differently, still find ways to be successful. And that's kind of what I hear you saying is, hey, we've done this. We found success. We kind of know what that looks like and feels like we can apply it to a different industry. Just because it's a different industry doesn't mean that the formula for success completely changes.

Yes.

And I think the one thing that I have to practice what I preach, or I had to go back to practicing what I preach, is you have to use your gifts. There's never going to be another Robin Gin.

Right.

I mean, there are thousands of cupcake bakeries around, but there are no cupcake bakeries that have Robin Jen. And same with the food blog. The new food blog is not going to be another Robin Jen. So I have to do it our way with our story, and that's what's going to make it flourish.

I love that. And it reminds me of one of my favorite posts from He's a technologist slash kind of futurist guy named Kevin Kelly. And I think I've talked about on the podcast before, but he talks about 1000 true fans. And that's a great example of that. You guys are already there, I'm sure. And now it's thinking about how can we build a thing where we are speaking to our 1000 true fans? And I think everybody that's listening to this has a version of that. You are able to connect with and serve 1000 true fans. And those true fans are people who will, you know, if you have a new cookbook, they'll buy it, or if you release a new product, they'll be interested in it. And if you are able to cultivate that, which isn't easy, but if you're able to cultivate that, you can have a lot of success. And I hear that as kind of a through line with you, talking about, you know, people from the very beginning that have been with you throughout the entire path and your entire journey. Super, super inspiring to talk to you both. One of the things that I would love to end on for this podcast is to have each one of you speak to somebody who's in the early stages, who's. And this could maybe be, you know, you Speaking to yourself 10, 11, 12 years ago as you're starting, or you could Also, think about it as speaking to somebody who's in the early stages of starting their thing. What would the advice and inspiration be that you'd give to that person? And Jen, we can start with you.

Okay, Take action. Take the leap. Do it. You will have notes upon notes upon notes on where to go, where to start, how to do it, when is the right time. Oh, I should wait for this. It will never be the right time. You have to do it. And I kind of apply. I'm talking to myself now with the food blog. I think I heard you say it. I don't know what episode because I'm binge listening to all of them on Food Blogger Pro. But you said exactly this, like, you have to just start it. You will tweak and tweak and tweak that blog forever before you publish it. And that's what I was doing. I was tweaking, tweaking and tweaking it. And I'm like, like, listen, get the recipe and get it out there. And now like each and every day we're tweaking it and making it better, but it's out there. We started and that pressure was like, woo, yeah, it's gone.

I love that. Yeah. And once you, once you do that, you'll start to realize, okay, this is what it feels like to publish content. This is what it feels like to put something into the world. This is what it feels like to see on your Facebook page, Rob, standing on a chair, slash the table with the big artificial light in the background. Know, like, you start to see, like, okay, these are the rhythms that I need to get into. Start to create consistently, which is so spot on. And what about for you, Rob? What would be the advice be that you'd give?

The advice I would give is speaking to my younger self. You know, don't be afraid to educate yourself. You know, educate yourself as much as you can. And, and that doesn't mean school all the time. You know, you can educate yourself from other people, from YouTube, just being around people. Don't be afraid to take someone in as a mentor. You know, don't be afraid to work in the shadows of other people even though you're not there yet. Don't try to be too big, too fast. If you have a goal, you know, stick to it. If you have 20 different objectives, you know, pick one and stick with it. Or two, you know, if you have too many, you'll be all over the place. That was a major problem that I had. And just, you know, be caring and be Patient. Being patient is very important, you know.

Yeah, it's so true. They talk about people underestimate what they can do in a overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can do in 10. And I hear a little bit of that truism in your advice where it's saying it's 12 years of doing a bakery and 12 years is a long time and you can't do what you guys have done in one year. And you have to be patient with it and see it through. Which I think is so true with the work that we do as well, creating, publishing things, developing an artistic skill, writing, photography, all of that, which is great coming to the end here. But I'm sure people will want to follow along with what you guys are up to, both the bakery, if they're close or passing through, swinging in, and then also your blog. So can you give them a heads up and we'll link to these in the show notes as well. But where can people find what you're up to and follow along? And also how can people get some of those incredible Philly cheesesteak cupcakes if they're around or just a regular one if they're not?

Sure the bakery is www.cupcakeologypa.com and we're at Cupcakeology Bakery or Cupcakeology PA on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And the new blog which we're so excited about is lovinfromtheovenblog.com and then we're @lovinfromtheoven blog on Instagram and Facebook and Lovin from the O on Twitter.

Love that. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast, Jen and Rob, really great to connect and excited to watch you guys continue to build the things you're building.

Thanks so much for having us. It was fun.

And that is that. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Food Blogger Pro podcast this week, friend. And as you know, we always like to wrap up each episode with a reviewer of the week. And this review comes from itunes and it's from user wordnerdy and it says I've been food blogging for years and I still learn something new with every Food Blogger Pro podcast. Thank you Bjork. Short and sweet. We love it. Thank you so much for the review. Word Nerdy. Each and every review helps the show get in front of more people. So we really appreciate every review you and we appreciate you so much. Each and every listener of the podcast just makes us so happy every single week. So from all of us here at fbphq. Make it a great week.

Sam.