258: Uncorked - Conversations on Race and Wine with Julia Coney

Hey there, friends. Bjork. Here you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. It's great to have you here. Usually you hear Alexa in the intro and outro. She's out today, so I get the honor of once again doing the intro and the outro for these podcasts. Just like the good old days. Really great conversation that we're going to be sharing with you today. We are calling this Uncorked Conversations about Race and Wine. We have the honor of having Julia Kony on. And Julia has expertise in and has written about and has spoken about these three things uncorked, which some of you are like, what does that mean? Well, it's actually a movie on Netflix, which we're talking about. We're going to be talking about race and we're going to be talking about wine. And if you can imagine a Venn diagram, go back to your math days. We're actually going to be talking about how that Venn diagram, wine, race and the movie uncorked all overlap. And being that we are the Food Blogger Pro podcast, we are doing what we can to stay within the category of food or food publishers or creators, of which Julia is one of those. But we are also wanting to make space for conversations about race and how all of those things relate to what we are doing. We're also going to be talking about what it looks like to use your voice as a creator to have some of those conversations and to step into that and what it looks like to do the work and how that ties into some of the 1% infinity concepts that we talk about this, that we talk about on the podcast a lot. I will say this. We have a lot of resources that we are sharing on this. We will link to all of those in the resources show notes for this, which you can get to by going to foodbloggerpro.com 258 so be sure to just type that in if you want to check out any of the things that we were talking about, any of the articles that I'm referencing, and you can cue those up and read through those. And as we talk about at the end, that's one of the things that you can be doing in the category of education, it is articles, it is books, it is podcasts. So excited to welcome you into this conversation with Julia. And we are calling it Uncorked Conversations about Race and Wine. Julia, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me so excited.

Yeah, excited to chat here specifically. I feel like this needs to be addressed right off the bat as we get into It. I was doing my research, my due diligence, and I came across one of my favorite videos that I've seen. And it is you on Instagram doing a. The payoff. You have to watch it all the way through because you think it's great. But then at the end, it switches to slow motion. It's you. It's this, what you're calling a sequence. Technicolor dream coat doing a dance at a resort in Mexico. And then it. And then it switches to slow motion. It's so captivating, so interesting. But I have to know, what's the story behind that kind of the background.

The funny thing of it is that retreat was a retreat created by a woman named Mailec Teal. She owns a beauty company called Curl Box for black women. And she created this retreat for 100 plus women to go to Mexico and just kind of like hang out and part business, part self help, but really just met all these amazing women. And. And so before the retreat, I was like, I want something fun. I'm usually kind of conservative. And one day I saw one of these like cheapy ads on like Facebook, but like this sequin coat, and I was like, I'm going to get this coat. And it was $10. Like, it was $10. And I bought this coat. I had never worn it before until Mexico. And my roommate was like, go into the bathtub and dance in the coat. The coat has to move. And that literally is what we did. We just danced in a bathtub in Mexico.

My question is, it feels like one of those things where you wear it for an Instagram video. You maybe wear it a little bit that night. My question is, have you worn it since? Is it?

No.

Okay. Yeah. But here's the thing, though. It served its purpose and it is. It is worth what you paid for it. In that.

In that regard, it is worth what I paid for it. I have not put it on since May 2019. Like, I literally brought it home from Mexico, wrapped it in plastic and put it in my attic.

Yeah. Well, as with all of the resources we'll share in the podcast today, we'll be sure to link to that in the show notes in case anybody wants to go back and watch that. One of the things we love to do as we kick off these conversations, Julia, is just to hear a little bit about people's story. And I'd love to know your story. I have to. With food and especially with wine, I always have to give the disclaimer that although this is a food podcast, this is Food blogger, pro. I'm kind of food illiterate. Like Lindsay, my wife is really the one that knows what's going on. But I'm really even more so wine illiterate. So I think I'm going to learn a lot from you today. Some wine insights would probably be one of those things. But take us back. I would love to hear your story and how you got into wine.

So here's the funny thing. I've only been writing about wine since 2016. Before that, in my main career, I'm originally from Houston, Texas, and I was a legal assistant. And so that was my background as being a legal assistant. And I also studied abroad in Paris. Was not interested in wine. I just come from a family. My family doesn't drink just for no reason. They just really didn't drink. And I didn't grow up with wine on, like, the table. Even when I went to Paris, the only reason I had wine so much because it was cheaper to order wine in a salad with an omelet. Didn't order a bottle. Like, that was like the thing. And I'm like a broke student.

We could have like a Coke or we could do a glass of wine. Wine.

Right. But one of the gentlemen I work with was a big wine person. And this is the late 90s. So in the late 90s, it was really, you know, big California wine, Napa Cabernet. You know, everybody knows that Robert Parker. And he was getting so much wine that one day it blocked my desk. And I said, why do you keep blocking my desk with all this wine? I just don't get it. And he said, hey, I'm going to have a barbecue in a couple of weeks at the house. Want you to come? And I'm pairing all this wine with barbecue. I go to his house, do this crazy barbecue. And it's Claude of all is Camus. It's all these big Napa wines. And he's pairing brisket sandwiches, ribs like, nothing so pretentious, like steaks from a grill. And he just sat me down and we just discussed tasting taste with this, eat this. And it was just fun.

Yeah.

So that kind of. That piqued my curiosity of just really learning about wine in a way because he just introduced it in such a fun way that I was like, I want to know this. So, you know, this is the 90s. Started going to, like, tastings. Then I really started traveling to wine regions to visit because I was just that curious.

Yeah. Lindsay and I did a trip to California. And this is. This is immediately where my wine knowledge falls off because I don't know where we went or what wines we had, which isn't helpful for a wine conversation. But I remember experientially it was so enjoyable and so different than going to any other type of alcohol experience. There's just a different feel to it, which was really enjoyable. And also accessing a new area, which was really good. So at some point you make this decision, like, hey, I want to take this passion, interest, hobby and pursue it more professionally. Like get into writing about wine and pursuing it as a career. What, at what point did you start to have that inkling of that being something that you wanted to do?

Well, here's the funny thing. I moved from Houston to D.C. in 2005, and in 2006, a lot of people don't know I started a very popular beauty blog. So I was a beauty blogger before they were like all the other things. And that blog just showed me because I have a degree in English literature. So it just showed me that I could write, but also writing for enjoyment. And eventually from 2006 until 2010, I. The blog became so popular I created a job. So in 2010 I left the legal world to freelance. And so I just freelanced as a beauty writer. Beauty. Doing beauty work, doing travel work. And at the end of 2015, I just knew I wanted to move into food and wine. I knew I wanted to let the beauty go. Even though I love beauty products and I love that stuff, I just didn't want to write about it.

Yeah.

And I just don't. I just woke up and was like, I'm done. I don't want to write about beauty anymore. And I took a 10 year beauty blog down and decided I would be Julia Kony. And I knew a lot about wine and I knew Psalms and I knew people in the business and. And I didn't know that many black wine writers. I knew Dorothy Bader was a wine writer. Right. I knew because I read tastings in the Wall Street Journal, but I didn't see anybody younger than that. And so I said, well, I'm going to write blog. And so just of course Google found so many great wine bloggers to read. And that's when I decided in 2016 to enter the wine world.

Yeah, that's great. 2006, you were blogging before. It was cool. Like that's, you're, you're. That's.

I was blogging before Twitter came out. I want you to think about what.

Platform was it that you were using at that point? This is like. This is where I get into, like, we diverge from wine into technology. And I'm like, okay, tell me what I started on.

Blogger.

Yep. Okay.

Then I went to TypePad.

Yes. That's when you know that. That you are one of the. You are in the elite class of bloggers when you used TypePad. At some point.

Then I went from TypePad to WordPress.

Yeah.

And I was on WordPress when. When I took the beauty to blog.

Nice. So one of the things that you talk about on your website is I pulled this from. From your. And I heard you kind of hint at a little bit. Pulled this from your. About section of your site is focus on wine, Winemakers personal essays and the intersection of race and wine. What does that last part, intersection of race and wine, look like? And did you know going into it when you first started writing that that was something that you wanted to focus on? Or was it that, you know, that it was something that you needed to focus on? And maybe those things coincide. Maybe it's both of those things.

No, I just plan to write, like, about the wines I was drinking these amazing winemakers, amazing, you know, stories I'm getting because I was traveling to these regions and the issues with the racism came when I realized how many people aren't used to seeing black wine professionals and the way wine works. I don't know how it is in the food, but, you know, you have these huge, like, consortiums would come and visit these huge industries. These winemakers come and they hire. They pull in the media in all aspect to do these tastings. So some are lunches, some are like, stand and walk around. And in the end of 2017, I was at a tasting in D.C. and a guy who was also at the tasting came around the table and asked me where the restroom was. And I said, well, how would I know? And he said, you look like the help.

It feels like something that you'd see 17.

So then I started noticing so many things like that kept happening in 2017 that I was like, okay. Or like, I go. And that's, you know, I go to wineries, and the winemaker, like I said, looked at me when he opened it. He was like, oh, I didn't expect you to be black.

Yeah.

Because, I mean, I don't know what else you want me to say to that, because just, yeah, I'm here. You made the appointment. And so with all that, I kept going, okay, the industry has a race problem.

Yeah.

Because I was hearing from so many other people, their experiences.

And it Feels, like, so explicit. And I think that's what's helpful to hear these stories is there's no question about it. It's a direct reflection of somebody saying that back to you. It's not like this. I think it might be. It was like, no, somebody explicitly said that. And it draws. It draws such a clear story.

Because that's also the same year of the Napa Valley train, the wine train. If you think about what happened with those women who were in the book club, they got kicked off the train. They were all black.

Can you tell that story for those who aren't familiar?

So a group of women from. I want to say they were Oakland, California, went to Napa, which is close by, to have their book club and have fun on the Napa Valley wine train. It's a train that runs through Napa Valley to different stops. They get kicked out for being rowdy. It makes, you know, social at this time, going crazy. And clearly, it was a racial issue that. I mean, everything that came out about that was about that. Because other people were loud. I've been on that train. If you're drinking wine and it's in the middle of the day, everybody's loud. That's just one of the things.

One of these tours, I remember seeing these people get. We didn't have a bus, so. So we would drink a little bit and then drive. But I remember people seeing get off this bus, and I was like, oh, my gosh. They're just going around to these. And drinking. And drinking a lot.

And drinking a lot. So with that happening and being in a business, and that's when I was like, napa. The wine industry, because we also have to look at the wine industry in America, is rooted in California. Yeah, There are other places, but it's rooted in California. So that's why I said that they have a race problem. And then in January 2018, there was an article with Karen McNeil for some journal, and it was talking about the glass ceiling. And for me, when I saw the photos, and there wasn't one black wine professional, one black person in wine that I knew. So if you've been in this for 20 years, and I am only in this two years, how do I know people and you don't?

Yes.

And so that's why I wrote that open letter, because that's how I felt.

And when you say. Yep. When you say the open letter, can you explain what that was about and maybe contextualize it for people, kind of what that was like and how you felt? And Give a little bit of explanation for that.

So the article, the original article was called Wine's Glass Ceiling. So my title was your wine glass ceiling. Is my wine glass box an open letter to the wine industry on race? Because. And I explained and I really kind of bullet pointed things that were being said, things that were like, how could you write this article? I don't see these people represented. And it was basically calling out the industry. Like when we say, you say like it's a glass ceiling. Imagine what happens to black people and people of color if you're saying this as a white woman. And so it just kind of went nuts. It went viral because people were like, oh, who is this person that we've never heard of? Just all of a sudden like, I'm done. I'm just going to call it out, call it what it is. And for me, I wanted to. How do we, how do we really make change? How do we not have a winemaker say things to me? How do we not have, like even patrons in a tasting room not stare at me like I'm an animal at the zoo because they can't believe a black person is sitting in the tasting room?

Yep. It's interesting. There's a bunch of different articles that I was reading, a lot of which that you have shared and you have your black wine professionals that you're launching as of recording In a week, right?

In a week.

Okay. So I'm interested to hear a little bit about that. We will publicly state it as a motivator to launch that and a celebration of that coming up. But one of the things, one of the quotes that I pulled from an article here, Alicia Townes Franken. Do you know Alicia or familiar with.

We've talked. I just don't know her personally.

Okay, great. Anyway, she talks about her involvement in the wine industry building. Building Grill 23 and bar to be the, you know, best selling wine business in, in Boston. I'm kind of pulling from here. Anyways, there's this quote where she says she felt like race relations should have been added to my job description. Do you feel, I would guess in these past few weeks that has especially been true? Do you feel that for the work that you're doing, Julia, or do you feel like it's always been part of your job description and now in this season, like it's really been highlighted?

Exactly. I've known entering the business, like, I'm being honest. When I entered, I was like, okay, I'm really excited about this. I did not realize it was that bad. Until I jumped in it.

Yep.

And so yes, race relations are just, I think being black or being for me is part of the job. It's part of their job description is to have race relations. Because people, when you think those things and microaggressions, people don't really get it until you have to call it out to them.

Yep. And I feel like the article that you write, these articles that have been published, some of the. I was reading some of Dorothy Gator's writings and you know, she talks about, she said most more people are finally getting off the fence on issues of race and justice. They said they are examining their workplace cultures, looking more closely for bias. Outpouring of support from wine community right now. And some believe, but some believe it's more hollow promises, empty words of solidarity. Where do you fall on that line, do you think? You know, you see this response, in some ways you'd hope, you know, I look at Wine Enthusiast and their Instagram account, it's obvious that this is something that they're, that they're thinking about and intentionally pursuing. Would you fall on the line of like, hey, these maybe are hollow promises? Or do you think, do you see things starting to shift and change in a positive way?

I come from a glass, the glass is half full. So I am having hope that what they saying they're going to do because I am of the mindset also, if you don't, I am holding you accountable for what you said because you said it. And you know, there are people who still won't say anything. There's people who feel they, you know, don't need to say anything and that's fine. I don't have to drink your wine. I don't ever have to write about it. And that's perfectly fine if you want to do that. But I do believe that they know it now has been brought to their attention and they're going to change. Do I think it's going to be overnight? Absolutely not. But it is, you know, how is it going to look when you reopen your tasting room? Not just because of the pandemic and people are apart. How are you going to have your staff when people come to visit? That's really. The tasting room culture is really a problem in the wine industry.

What do you think that is?

Well, it's because I always say wine is viewed as a luxury product. If you compare it to other alcohol products, wine is viewed as a luxury. And the only time you equate black people in luxury is when we're entertaining. You not when we're at the wine glass. Like, not when we're talking about wine. Not when people tell, you know, ask me, oh, like you've been to Bordeaux. Yeah, like, you know where it is right now. Why would. There's no need to say that to me. But it's always those constant. Let me ask you a second question, because how can you. When that question wouldn't come to another person of another race.

Yeah, it's. It's interesting to see some of those quotes, some examples I'm trying to think of. The other article that I was reading. One of them was called Too White Wine. We'll link to all of the different articles. But I feel like the stories are so helpful and the context that it gives into the reality of those interactions and also what it feels like to receive those and the spirit of those. And. And I don't think I said this on the podcast yet, but we had been talking about it before. But you pulled an example of. I don't think I brought this up again yet. And we talked about it before, but talked about attending a Napa Valley tasting event last year. I didn't know you people drank wine. Somebody said that to you. And just it's like, oh, my gosh. And other. Countless examples of stories that people share within that. So for those who are in the wine industry, two related examples or two questions related to that. Who are some of the people or the brands or the businesses who are publishing content related to anti racism in a way where you shake your head and you're like up and down, like, yes, this, this resonates. Maybe you can think of specific examples or specific brands, or maybe it's just the general spirit of what people are saying.

You have people like Gary Pharrell Winery who just like they literally say, we take a stand. We will not. We will not. We're not standing for this. We Black Lives Matter. We're in support. Like, how can we help? Like, okay, talk. Like, you know, do you need somebody to talk to your staff? You know, when people come in when they're picking the wines, when, you know, people explain those little things when they're there with other customers. You know, you have a lot of people do that. You know, one of the things I always tell that a lot of people don't know Gallo for as big as they are the largest, still the largest family owned winery, they've had a Gallo African American diversity committee before it was school. They've been doing the work they didn't highlight. Like, it isn't New for them because they know we have these people in all aspects of the business. Right. How do we keep those people engaged? How do we let them know we support them? And this is before the past two weeks. This has been years on their behalf. And you have, you know, that's because they value, like, if you stay with us, then we're building a better company. You know, whether or not you drink their wines or not, you have to appreciate their, their, their initiative in doing that.

Yeah. It's almost like you nod your head yes to the people who aren't scrambling in a one month situation thinking, like, what do we do? But it's like they've been doing the work. So it's like those are the people who are like, yep, get it. They get they're doing it. This is like, maybe there's more intentional conversations around it for this period of time, but there have been for an extended period of time, which I think is. Makes so much sense. One of the interesting things that I think is so cool is the movie uncorked. And it feels like they're like, what is a movie that we can make that would be hit all of the topics that Julia would love to talk about and has written about. And like, do you feel that way when you, when you watch this movie? I'm curious to know what that was like for you. It must have been so exciting.

So watching the movie, like, you know, hearing about it and. Okay. And then being a part of like the preview of it. And I remember just watching it and it was so emotional for me. Like, my mom died in the middle of like my wine career kind of going crazy. So that part was emotional. Watching a movie where the intro is hip hop.

Yes. And almost the entire soundtrack.

Almost the entire soundtrack.

But you know, like French hip hop. And it was so cool. I literally last night thought like I envisioned myself this morning getting up and searching uncorked on Spotify. It was such a good soundtrack.

Yeah. The playlist is there. The playlist is there.

Awesome.

But also too to see wine described with rappers.

Yeah, I would. That was specifically one of the like. Totally. Yeah. It was one of the things I was going to bring up because it feels that scene specifically. So Elijah and I think Tanya was. Her name comes in and I feel I was going to use the analogy of like me being at the same level for Tanya in terms of like, she comes in and she's like, to set the scene, I'm going to do a terrible job describing it. But she comes in, she's like Looking for wine. And Elijah, who's this wine connoisseur, is like, what kind? And she's like. Like a good one. I feel like that would be me. And he's like, let me. Let me take you along the journey of describing what wines could be. And he uses hip hop artists to do it, which was just such a great. Such a great scene. So as. As you watched uncorked, were there things that if somebody hasn't seen it, or if they did see it, maybe they go back and watch it again. Would there be elements that you'd say, hey, be present to or be aware of this as it relates to wine and race and the nuance of what it might look like for somebody who is black to be passionate about wine and navigating that. Are there things where you. You would call out, like, to pay attention to parts of that story or for you, things that really resonated with that movie?

Well, one of the scenes that I would tell people to look out for is eventually when he goes to Paris and even before, when he goes to take the test, just look at the rooms in the color of people that are taking the test.

Yes, yes.

Initially, when you look and say, yes, there's him. Or what I loved is when he walked into the tasting in the beginning. Remember, he walked into the tasting and. Yep, you could see, like, him. Like, you could see everybody was night, but you could see he was almost him. And another, I think, black lady were like one of the 40 that. If you say 40 people, they were two.

Yep.

Of the 40.

Yes. And I remember that scene specifically. And it's. I think what I appreciate about it is it's not overt. Like, it's not like they're making this, like, obvious statement, but it's that it's a nuanced scene where he's there and he. But still feels a little bit of alone and seeing him kind of navigate that and you kind of. Without them ever having this, you know, explicit exchange where somebody. It feels like somebody makes a strong racist statement, you can kind of feel like, oh, what is that like for him? And you kind of wonder and ponder a little bit. Is there anything with the movie that you felt like, oh, I wish they would have included this or that they would have highlighted this in a different way? Because it wasn't just about race. It was also about family dynamics. It was about generational business. It was all of these different elements tied in together. But I'm curious to know, with your expertise around wine and race and the relationship of Those. Was there anything that you felt like was missing in that, in the movie?

Well, you know, when I first saw. I thought that I probably, you know, and that's why I'm not a movie director is would have said to make it, you know, to expand the scene when he was just telling his cousin like wine is just so white, you know, in that way. Just, just a little more dialogue on that part because. Or, or just really, you know, I'm not saying about like hardship, but just explaining like how does he feel besides that? Because there was so much, so many of his feelings. He kept to himself a lot. But I would have loved for them to expound on like when he said, you know, wine is just so white. How does he feel about that? That would be the only thing I would add.

Yes. And it's interesting even there's the character there as this contrast. Harvard, that's his nickname. But it feels like such a counter to Elijah's story where it's Harvard. I forget that's his nickname because he went to Harvard. And his dad is this Citibank executive. And then there's Elijah, whose dad owns a barbecue restaurant in Memphis. And their stories kind of intertwine and it's an interesting kind of as they walk along their journeys, sometimes experiencing similar things like both of their parents not necessarily approving or their dads not approving of their pursuit of wine. But how different that plays out was another really interesting storyline with that. So uncorked, it's been fun to see you having some conversations on Twitter with Delin who the story is loosely based on. Can you talk about your connection with him and. And his kind of high level story if people are interested in checking that out.

So D Land Proctor, he was one of the candidates in the original psalm film from 2013 Psalm documentary. And so when I first really was writing about racism and wine, he just emailed and was like, hey, I saw your stories. Like they're good. Like, let me know how I can help. That's literally was like this email out the blue. And since then we've become friends. So when the movie was coming out, he's like, hey, you want to. Do you want to see the movie in advance? You want to. Can you write a story about it? And the same time he's asking me, I am pitching, like, can I pitch this story to places? Because I have to write about him and what this movie actually means for a lot of black, not all black people, but a lot of black people. In wine, that's one of the Reasons like, he came on my watch party. I did a watch party for it. Him and Prentice Penny came and answered questions for people at the end of the movie to talk about it because it meant a lot. Not just his story, but to show a new perspective of what wine can look like. And I think for a lot of people who watch younger people who watch Netflix, they probably never thought that much about wine. Right. Is red, white or pink? And now they're like, oh, I'm just. It piques a lot of people's curiosity because I get the emails like, I watched it. It was so good. Thank you for telling me about it.

Yes. Yeah. Was there. When you reflect on what it meant to you, would you be able to pull out some. Some of those elements where you said, hey, after watching this, I felt this. Or here's what it meant to me as a black wine professional.

As a black. I felt proud because I have watched all the wine movies over and over again. And now I have a wine movie that actually I love the soundtrack. And it is equally funny and joyful and sad, like a good movie should be. That's how I look at the end of day. It's still a good movie. And also when you. When you know, you watch a lot of other. I don't think there was a wine movie that I watched that was like, oh, my God, it's the best ever, or anything like that. But it also piqued my interest. That's what. It keeps me curious. That's the one thing I want to say is curious. Right. And so the movie still made me love that curiosity that wine brings. So I put it up there with the like, I love Bottle Shock. I love Sideways still. Because I still, once again, make. Keeps me curious that I. Wine is always so interesting and fascinating.

Yeah, that's great. Uh, so uncorked. If you haven't watched it. A note for listeners to make sure to. To check that out. Also, you can queue up the. The Uncorked playlist because that. That is also. That'll be at the top of my list this week. Speaking of black wine professionals, we talked about that before. Tell me a little bit about launching this new initiative. Kind of the reasoning behind it. Jasmine, who we work with on our team, has black food bloggers. I remember talking with her a little bit and she's like, it was something that's really stuck out to me was she said this was when Hands and Pans videos were getting really popular. And she said, you just don't see black hands in those hands. And Pans videos.

We don't.

And I've thought about that so much, and I think about that in the tech. I love tech. And you think of these tech videos and it's been, Marques Brownlee is this tech mkbhd. And it's like, oh, it's so nice to see black hands. But you don't see that as much. And he reflects on that and talks about that. Talk to me about black wine professionals. Where does that come from? Is it a similar spirit in regards to the need to create this community in this place to. To highlight and to. And to surface those creators or professionals?

Well, here's what it. So did you watch my Instagram Live?

I watched some of it, yep. The most recent one, well, the one.

Called Silence is Betrayal. Your Silence is Betrayal.

I haven't seen that one. No.

So I went on Instagram when it was Blackout Tuesday, looking at the silence of the wine industry, not wanting to take a stand on Black Lives Matter. You can see it now. It's three weeks later, people are still like, no, what do we should do? And you watching people, you know, not taking a stand, not saying anything. They don't, you know, I'd rather take people imperfect than perfect on what you stand. That's how I look at that. So after the live, I was just emotionally drained and I kept going, what do I do? Because I know PR people who have reached out. Like, I just don't know that many black wine professionals. I just don't. I don't know. Do you know any? Can you help? And over the years, they've asked, can you invite black wine professionals, you know, to things? Can you invite. And then when I realized, like, okay, if I want to create something and be a change, I have to make it. How do I do this? So it's only three weeks old, literally, to tomorrow, that I decided to create a database. So, in a listserv. So if someone wants a person to come to their event and their event happens to be in Santa Cruz, California, just throw that out. Here's a list of people over there. But if your event happens to be in Philly, here's a list of black wine professionals. And when I say professionals, I don't necessarily mean psalms.

Sure.

Or people on the floor. I mean, if you're in media, if you're in market, if you are, you know, your job is. Is in the wine industry, you could be an importer, a distributor. Here's a list. So people can't say they don't know these people. They don't know these people actually exist because now there's this platform where I'm highlighting everything that these people are doing or also where they are. I plan to have like a resource for jobs because that's one of the things about the wine industry. A lot of the jobs are word of mouth. You know somebody who knows somebody. How do I know friends?

And if your only friends are white, then it's the only people you're going to hire.

I'm encouraging people to email me so I can post jobs listing.

Cool.

So people can see these people who would never know or never even think that. Like, I didn't know that. Some people don't even know those kind of different jobs exist in the wine industry. Because I think when we think of wine industry, we really just think of the service part.

Yep.

And we don't see the sales, distribution and things like that. So it is highlighting these people. So when the world opens back up whenever they may be and we have these tastings again, here's a list of people you can invite. And also, if people are looking for quotes from people, it's kind of like a version, like a stagnant version of help a reporter out.

Sure. Yep. Can you talk about. For those who aren't familiar with what that is, just so they kind of understand that is.

I want to say it's an email that comes out almost. You pick the categories and you literally help a reporter out with quotes. If you're an expert or knowledgeable in that field, you help the reporter get a quote that they can put in a story. So this is that version. But it's going to be that way. So if somebody's writing about wine and wine makers or wine shops and they need a person who lives in the area, they can go and say, okay, here's five people. I could send a question to all five. And that's my. That's how I find them.

Yes. And it's solving the problem of people coming to you and essentially asking you to be a recruiter.

Yes.

And building a solution around that, which is so smart and so cool. I think that's great. So it was interesting when you were talking about the silence piece and not taking a stand. This is going back to a quote that I'd read before from the Conscious kid. We'll link to this. It's a Patreon thing. So some of it's free, some of it's available. But this was talking. This was an article that Lindsay, my wife, sent me about talking about race to kids. And I feel like, it's worth pointing out, because it's been helpful for me to understand the role that silence plays, and it kind of divides it into three categories. Racial talk leads to greater racial understanding and helps undermine the power of racist laws, structures, and traditions. So that's one. Racist talk, on the other hand, helps to perpetuate the status quo and to further entrench racial myths and stereotypes. And then this last piece, which I think ties into the silence, it says, avoiding race talk makes race itself unspeakable, which in turn gives it a negative connotation. And I think the question then becomes, like, what do you do to make sure that you are having these conversations and actually talking about it? And I'd be curious for you, Julia, to speak to those people who would maybe fall into the category of avoiding race talk right now. How do they walk across that bridge to start having those conversations? It's a really big, really difficult question with a lot of it depends. But if you were to hold their hand and be like, we're gonna do this, and I'm not gonna hold your hand the whole time, but maybe for a little bit, here's how we can get across this bridge and start to have some of these conversations.

Well, I think first I will say this. I am very comfortable having the uncomfortable conversation about race. All black people are not like that. So I don't think it's a. I think it could be reaching out. I've had more people reach out to me and reach out to my friends who are talking about this and just ask a simple, like, how. What. What do I need? What can I do? Right? And I think also right now, we live in a time of great resources. There are so many lists in Google and telling people. I mean, if you go to Amazon homepage, my God, it's a whole books, right? Which is great. So I think also learning and also I think books are a great way to start because you can do that on your own. I think that is a first step is like, let me read something that will make me uncomfortable. And then going from there, like, if your kids are in school or you're in school, you work with people, look at your surroundings, and if you know, you have co workers that you probably never talk with about this, and just reach out. If you're already on a zoom call or later, just ask, hey, was there anything I said that I could have not said to you? And that's what, like, just. It's already there. It's just, you have to be okay with, like, reaching out and saying that. And I'm sure if a lot of people reached out to their co workers and colleagues, they would find they would have the conversation.

Yeah, it's another quote from that article that I feel like ties into this and I think it also ties into a little bit of what you hear saying is this idea we talk about on the podcast a lot, this idea of 1% infinity, which essentially means getting a little bit better every day. And I've been thinking about that personally as it relates to deconstructing my own prejudices and biases and knowing that it's a forever pursuit and work that I will always be doing. And the quote from the same article, this is the one talking about students and kids. It says students should be encouraged to realize that no one is free of racist beliefs. Therefore the aim is not to not have them, but rather to recognize them and access the content knowledge, which I think is what you're talking about with education conversations, talking to people needed to refute them. And then this last piece I think is really important and ties into the education piece again. Self awareness about race is a lifelong practice that asks us to notice race and racial biases consistently and critically. And you can't do that, but to continually introduce new angles and views and stories. And I know even from this podcast that will exist for people that you have introduced stories and ways for people to understand the world and what it just a tiny, tiny little sliver of some of those stories will add to self awareness that people have, which is such a gift that we so deeply appreciate.

Well, I always say this, yeah. Oh, I gotta say this about wine. And also when we talk about food, because I think food right now is also having the same moment. Is food political? Is wine political? If we talk about it in that way, wine is considered a communal product. And the most important thing we're missing is community, right? If we're trying to bring everybody in because we're missing a big component that people want to support the business people want to buy. It's a multimillion dollar billion dollar industry. And to think that you live in a world where that world that only that money comes from a certain sect is a problem. And so one of the things, and you'll probably notice too, if you go to restaurants or anything, I always say this, people want black people swagger, but they don't want the struggle because how many restaurants or how many places I've gone, they're playing hip hop music, right? They're playing this music and they're not thinking like maybe that, like I shouldn't play the one with the N word in the room because hey, notice like if a black person walked there, I don't want to hear that. I mean, I just don't. And it's little things like that to be just be conscious of.

Yeah, it really feels like the self awareness piece which doesn't exist unless you're doing the work. And that was one of the things that I've heard you mention a couple different times is doing the work. And I think, what does that look like? It looks like listening to a podcast like this. It looks like reading articles, books. Would there be other things that you would add to that list of what it looks like for people to do the work. And I'll say this, to do the work in a sustainable, long, forever pursuit. I think there's one thing about like doing the work in a time when a lot of people are doing the work, but what does it look like and what encouragement would you give to people in order or to do that sustainably for a long period of time?

So think about how we believe in working out, right? We're not trying to work out for tomorrow. We're trying to feel better in life. Look at it like, how can I, maybe I should like look around and support a small bipoc black indigenous people of color, like I don't know, condiment company. Just think about something just like there we go there, right? And if we're talking about wine, okay, I know I normally order X amount of bottles a year. How many can I get of those that are actually made by black people, made by a Mexican guy. How can I change the way, like I'm not saying take all your stuff and throw it out or anything like that. I'm just saying being conscious as we do our health, make it a priority to seek those things out.

Yep. It's interesting to tie back to the tech industry. One of the conversations and articles that I read was about venture capital and businesses and how the people you know in your circle are the people you end up working with and the people that they know. And if that circle, like for me in growing up in small town Minnesota is majority white. And if I don't do the work to get outside of that, to think who are the, where are the black owned businesses that I can shop at or business owners or order online or people to follow or podcasts to listen to, movies to watch? If I'm not intentional about that, it's going to be really easy for me to just sit inside of that circle. And, um. And so that's been a challenge that I know that I've had that Lindsay's been talking about. And I think that we're bringing to podcast listeners now, which is. Which is such a valuable and worthwhile forever pursuit. I know that it's something that you have been talking about, been. Been writing about for a really long time. I'm guessing we'll continue to do that. Julia, if people are interested in following along with what you're doing, if they're interested in checking out your writing or maybe working with you to do freelance, is that something that you're doing? Can you do a quick little promo for what you're up to where people can find you? And we'll link to those in the show notes as well.

Okay. I am Julia Kony. Literally all my social is Julia Kony. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all juliaconey. I am freelancing, so I am doing that. I'm also right now consulting on this topic. So I'm doing virtual zoom meetings with teams to actually have this discussion as a team member, especially in the wine industry, to talk with the staff while they're slowly, especially places are reopening, having this consciousness of understanding everything right now. So I am working with that for people. But Black Wine Professionals is launching next week.

Yeah.

So in that I'm still doing, like, chats and talks and all that kind of stuff with people. You know about this because I will say this is a movement that is, as a black person, feels very different than a lot of other things that have happened. It feels like a consciousness in a. Literally, we're changing an entire culture. Like, everyone's changing, not just us. Like, we're all changing. We're all not standing for it. We're all taking a stance on that. And, you know, this is what we want. This is democracy for the people's voices to be heard. And that is where I am doing all that work. And, like, people can find me online. I mean, I answer. I try to answer all the DMs. There are a lot coming in. So if it takes a minute or emails, just know I see them. It's just a lot at the moment.

Yeah, totally. And it's not. And it's not like quick, easy response. Like, it's. It's. It's an investment to. To have those conversations, even if it's an Instagram dm. So, yeah, great. Julia, thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you so much.

It was really great to talk to you. And to connect and just really appreciate the work you're doing and the insights that you shared with our audience.

Oh, thank you so much. I can't, can't wait to like promote this. So I'm excited and read the other articles you were quoting from as well.

Great. Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks, Julia. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

One more big thank you to Julia for coming on and sharing her insights, her experience, her stories, something that is so extremely valuable for me. And my guess is that it is valuable for you as well. I just want to share one more time the show notes foodblockerpro.com My guess is that if you have listened to this podcast, there will be at least one, maybe two handful of different articles that we reference that you might want to check out. And we will link to those in the Show Notes area. So be sure to go there to check out those articles and follow along with Julia and everything that she's up to at juliaconi in all social handles, as she mentioned, as well as her website. Juliaconi.com thanks so much for following along for listening to this podcast. That's one of the great joys that we have is to be able to have these conversations and to share them with you. We appreciate you and we're excited to continue to do this next week as we continue conversations with creators, influencers and people who are working to build strong businesses and to make an impact. Thanks. Make it a great week.

Sam.