259: Keep Showing Up - Finding Success On YouTube with Beth Le Manach

Foreign.

Hello, hello, hello, Alexa here. And you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. Thanks for tuning in today. Today's episode is a really exciting one, and today we're interviewing Beth from Entertaining with Beth, and among other things, she talks about YouTube and finding success on YouTube. And I don't know about you, but for me, YouTube is definitely one of those social media platforms that's just kind of like a black box. I watch a lot of YouTube content, to be completely honest with you, but I just don't really know how it works or how to be successful on YouTube. You know, other social media platforms are relatively simple to figure out. You know, like Instagram. You post a picture, you use some hashtags, you connect and engage with other accounts. But YouTube is a whole different beast. And Beth kind of has the YouTube beast figured out. In today's episode, she'll share some information about how you can create engaging content on YouTube, how she's found out that she can triple her revenue on YouTube and how to get YouTube to suggest specific videos when she wants to promote those specific videos. You know, it's. She's just so excited about the type of content that she creates. And I hope that this episode will make you excited about potentially either leveling up your game on YouTube or just starting to post content on YouTube. It's a really great interview. We hope you enjoy it.

So.

So without any further ado, Bjork, take it away.

Beth, welcome back to the podcast.

Thank you so much. It's so good to be here with you, Bjork.

Yeah. One of the things I love doing whenever we have somebody who's coming back on the podcast, is thinking back to first time that we connected, the first time that we talked about, and you were almost a single digit number podcast interview. You were episode 10, one of the very early episodes in 2015. September 2015 is actually when you publish that. So it was within the first few months of us doing a podcast. We're still doing podcasts. You're still building your brand, working on producing content. But my guess is a lot has happened since we had that first conversation back in 2015. Can you rewind the tape? Usually what we do is we ask people to go all the way back, but because we're able to pick up here, and if people want to listen to your entire story, they can hear that in that episode, episode 10. So you go to foodblockpro.com 10, but catch us up. Beth, what's happened in the last five years in your world?

Oh, my gosh. So Much and so much thanks to you, Bjorn. I have to actually say, after I was on your podcast, you introduced me to a whole world of podcasts. So I started listening to every episode you produced after that.

That's grassroots marketing for us, where the people we interview become listeners. And if we do that enough.

Totally, totally. But it really helped me like turn my little. What at the time was probably a bit of an art project into a business and helped me because I think at the time I was still working for a media company called Kin Community and I was running their production and programming department and producing for this YouTube channel at the same time. So that was a little bit crazy. I mean, I was working like 50 hour weeks, two hour commute. I have two kids. And I think the moment when I got home and my husband was there, like serving our daughter cereal and fish sticks for dinner, I was like, I can't keep doing this. So thanks to you and your podcast, I kept listening and I kept, you know, optimizing the business and learned all about this whole other world of vlogging, which, which I didn't know because I was spending all this time in video and YouTube and was able to turn that into a very significant part of my business too. So I think the biggest change. Yeah. Has been that, has been the ability to quit the full time job. That's been the best thing.

Well, congratulations. That's so great. Thank you. So we were talking about this beforehand, but there's this. It's a very long story that maybe I'll tell in the podcast sometime, but. And I will connect this back in some way, but you'll have to wait for the payoff. So I was going to see this physical trainer who. Or this, this, this, this doctor who, the guy that I work with to do physical training. The, the, the personal trainer that we have introduced me to. And I didn't know, but going into it realized that he works almost exclusively with professional athletes. And the only way, the only reason that I got in was because I had an in through this friend slash personal trainer who goes to him because he's this like extreme obstacle course race. Get in there. And it's like I'm definitely not a professional athlete. Like I joke that I'm a professional keyboardist, but after me comes in this like a wide receiver for the Minnesota Vikings and it's like, oh my gosh, like these, these are incredible athletes. And what I've found about that was suddenly I found myself wanting. Just even today I've been thinking about it. Suddenly I want to be more athletic. I want to work out, I want to achieve a certain level of athleticism just by associating with those people in this very short window. So here's the payoff and where the question lives. Do you feel like in listening to the podcast and hearing interviews with people who were building successful brands or figuring out how to monetize from a blog or building a business in a certain category, were there actual tips and tricks and things that you implemented? Or was it more of much like me being around a professional wide receiver for the NFL, suddenly saying, like, oh, I'm close to this. I can see this, I can see this person doing it, therefore I want to do it. How much of it was the tactical and how much of it was hearing people, hearing their voice, understanding that it could be done and being inspired from that?

I think it's 50.

50.

I think you're always inspired first. And to be perfectly honest, it was a little bit overwhelming in the beginning. Just knowing about blogging and SEO and P and all of these different things that you had introduced me to. I kept thinking, how am I going to wrap my head around all of this? Then hearing success stories of people who did and knowing that, like, if it's possible for them, it must be possible for me. Like everything you can kind of at some point figure out and spend enough time to learn. And I think that's what has been so great for me, is having someone like you show me the way and be such a great teacher and just little by little knocking things off the list of all the things I had to do to make it happen. So that's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

And obviously a lot of hard work. Like it's one thing maybe to draw the analogy to personal training, it's one thing for somebody to say, like, here's what you do, but it's not successful unless you are actually doing it, which is like really, really difficult, especially as you're navigating full time job, family.

Yeah.

What were the things along that journey when you look back that were most impactful? Lindsay and I talk about it as unlocks, like the things that unlocked a new level or you were able to kind of upgrade or a new level of achievement. And it might have been a mindset thing, but maybe it was actually a tactical implementation thing. So as you look back at the last five years, as you made that transition, could you highlight any of those?

I really think the turning point for me was reading that book. And I know you've read it too, because I think I even Heard you recommend it. Is the War the War of Art. Is that the right title?

Yeah, for sure.

And just showing up and doing the work, like, at some point you can dream yourself away, but until you sit down at your seat at the computer and just say, yeah, this is hard, but I just got to do the work, that's when things really shifted for me, you know, because I think we. We do get into that paralysis analysis where we're like, well, should I do this and should I do that? Well, I got to take this E course. Well, wait, I gotta take that webinar and wait, oh, I gotta sign up for this. And you can start getting yourself in such a lather, trying to learn everything that you don't just sit down and do, you know, the top three things you have to accomplish for the day. And that was another thing. Just, I have 25 things on my to do list. But you know what? Today I'm doing these three, and I am not getting out of this chair until I do these three things. And just keeping your eye on the prize really helps.

That's awesome. So Steven Pressfield is the author, and he writes the book, kind of aimed at creatives in general, but talks a lot about writing and what that's been like for him. He wrote the book the Legend of Beggar Vance, which was a movie that will. I was going to say Will Ferrell. Will Smith.

Yeah.

Two very different actors Will Smith starred in about. It was a golf movie, but anyway, so he's written fiction, but then he wrote this nonfiction book and he's written some other ones about what it's like to show up as a creative every day. And I think kind of breaks apart some of the myth around it as, like, this thing where you show up and you feel inspiration, and you only create when you're inspired and says more like, hey, it's a grind and you're not going to want to do it, but you have to sit down and you have to start. And it doesn't always feel good. And there's going to be things pulling you away from it and. And that grit that you need, which I kind of hear you talking a little bit about, is so, so important to show up and to do it. So the other interesting thing, as you reflect on the last five years on making that transition, doing it full time, is this idea of introducing another element, another outlet, you know, as you think of yourself as a creator, not just on YouTube, but also with your blog, what did that look like to start to look at? Almost like syndication Of. Of. Of sorts where you have your YouTube channel, but that's not the only place where you're creating content. You're also creating it in other places. Is that a fair kind of synopsis of. Of what that transition was like?

Yeah. I mean, I think the real aha moment was going to a food blogging conference. And the bloggers over my table were very friendly and chatty and. And I really felt like such fish out of water. I was like, wow, I didn't even realize all these people are making, like, some pretty significant money from this. More so than I ever saw on YouTube. And they've all, like, looked at me. And a lot of these bloggers also had YouTube channels as well. And they started laughing. They're like, Beth, YouTube is, like, a nice to have, but the blog is, like, where all the money is. I'm like, really? And I was so inspired. I was like, wow. I, like. I feel like I picked the hardest thing first, video, just because video is like, yeah, so hard emotionally in a lot of ways, which we can get into that. And technically. And, like, there's a lot of things around video that make it hard. Not that blogging isn't like. I think where blogging is hard is learning all the technical and, like, tactical skills. But after three days at this conference, I was like, oh, my gosh, okay, I totally know what I need to do now. And then realizing that you just have to follow the money, so the amount of time Right. That you put into something has to correspond with what the ROI is. And so I realized, like, okay, 60% of my time still needs to be on YouTube, because that's where most of the money is coming from. But, like, the potential for blogging, like, I need to start putting 40% there and not 100% just on YouTube, because I can see that really paying off. And it has.

Did you see that play out in a way that you thought it would?

More, actually, and quicker than I thought it would. And I think. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why I think that is, but I think. Well, I think doing the work, I think, you know, getting a site audit and, you know, doing all the SEO optimizations and taking a few courses here and there and going to conferences and being part of Facebook groups and constantly learning. Like, I think that's one of the things with this industry is you can't learn it all and then decide, okay, I'm done now I'm just gonna go run my business. You have to allocate a certain amount of hours really in the week and maybe a course or two each quarter to continue learning. Because things change so often and I think if you're willing to evolve with the changes, even if you may not like the changes and you know, algorithm shifts happen and all this other kind of stuff happens, but you have to stay on top of it if you want to continue to grow and earn a living from it. Right.

So if you were to, if you had a pie chart and you were to look at that right now, what does that look like in terms of your business percentage wise? Revenue from YouTube versus ads from your site versus sponsored. Sponsored. I'd be interested in sponsored YouTube and then sponsored blog if that's something that you're doing.

Yeah, well, it's interesting. The thing that's crazy about this is there's so many places you can earn money right now digitally that you could be chasing every rabbit in the field. Right. And I'm a one man band so I don't have like the awesome husband, wife or the, you know, people who like has like another person. Like it's just me and I'm doing it all. I'm shooting the videos, I'm editing the videos, I'm writing the blog posts and developing the recipe. So there's only so many places I can be. So right now I decided that there are three main places that I earn the most revenue from and that's where I will be spending most time. And that would be a third of it is YouTube, a third of it is the blog and the other third is Amazon. So it's Amazon affiliate, but it's also Amazon video which I am now able to earn income from. So they have, it's going to be released I think a little bit wider soon. But right now I'm in a beta where you can earn money off the videos that you upload to Amazon and the products you've tagged. So if people watch your video and then end up buying anything within a 24 hour period in the home and kitchen category, you get a percentage of it's less than affiliate because it's like on Amazon marketing, but it's significant. Like it adds up. So I am spending a lot more time now. Now.

Yeah, it's interesting you see that as a shift. This is kind of a macro analysis of Amazon affiliate, but you see a shift happening where Amazon is pulling back the affiliate percentages you can earn as an affiliate who refers people from your site to Amazon and people who are really invested in the Amazon ecosystem know like those, those, those percentages are Consistently going down. So if before you could get, I don't know what the percentages are, but like 4%, if somebody bought a certain pan, now it's like 1% or something like that. Like these numbers are going way down. And the, the thought is that Amazon is doing whatever they can to shift people to going to Amazon as the place where they do an analysis of what product to buy and to do product comparisons. And so what you're saying makes a lot of sense where Amazon is switching and starting to maybe move some of those dollars to incentivize people to create content on Amazon and then also in doing that, sharing some of that upside. So what I hear you saying is like, hey, if you do a video, you put something together and in that video you mention a product or talk about a product that you use within that, and somebody ends up buying something, not just that product, but something in that category, then you're able to, as a like Amazon creator, get a percentage of that. And it sounds like it's in the beta right now.

Yes, that's in the beta. It should be soon coming to most creators, especially if you have a influencer page. So have you seen those on Amazon where you can actually have your shop? Yeah, so I started with that. I've been doing a lot of beta tests with Amazon over the years. I don't know why. Somehow they got my email and we've been participating in things and I find it really fascinating for food creators because so much of what we do is tied to our favorite product. A lot of the times, whether it be like your favorite whisk or your small appliance or this and that. And my videos have always just included that because I think it helps people succeed in making the recipe. So when Amazon asked if I wanted to do the video beta, I was like, oh, I've got like 400 videos and I'm always talking about products. Why not? And then it also can sync up with your Amazon page, your shop, so you can put those same products in there. So that when I do something on social media like oh, fabulous, Fine Friday, something I love, and I can send people to the Amazon shop and I've found that the sales that there's much more conversion that will happen when someone is dropped into a shop environment because it has all of my point of view versus just an affiliate link. So I try to send people to the shop as most as possible.

I think it's almost like a complimentary. It's almost like you'd send somebody to your instagram page where it's, it's a platform that you're building, you have your own recommendations, you have kind of curated products and now also producing content on there is. Is. Is that something where you are producing video just for Amazon or are you producing videos and then putting them on Amazon as well? And how, how explicit do you have to be in it being a product video versus a normal video that has a product?

Yeah, totally. Well, I think what I figured out early on is that my programming strategy for video because when I was, you know, we're into the phone, when I was hiring a crew, I had to really think about it because a crew would come and we would shoot four to five videos during that time. So those four to five videos, one had to be like for SEO purposes. Right. Something that I knew was just going to do well because search was there. One is for the community. So things that people are like really excited about, keep asking me to do. And I knew that would be sort of a community favorite and one that was kind of product focused. So one might. Which I knew that I could use on YouTube but I could also use on Amazon. So I wasn't doing it exclusively for Amazon, but it was definitely part of the strategy to have something that would work for Amazon. That's great.

You hinted at this. You said when I had a crew coming, obviously we are in very different season where being in close proximity to people in a indoor setting is not encouraged. And so you've had to shift a little bit. My guess is, and we've talked about this a little bit. Can you talk about what that's been like? Knowing that video is a really important piece of what you do. It's kind of the, you know, when you look at your history, it's the, it's the kind of way that you got started way that a lot of people know you and knew you in a way where you had video that was you speaking to the camera, professionally produced, there was a crew there, you could tell it was really well done. And then suddenly you can't have people come to your house anymore to shoot these videos. What was that like to make that transition?

Well, at first I was in denial a little bit probably. Like all of us, like the first two weeks of the quarantine, we were like, oh, this is sort of interesting. It sort of felt like a big snow day, right? We'll just sort of wait this out and see how it goes. And then a month into it, I was like, this isn't going to get better really soon. I Better figure this out because my whole business is tied to producing videos. Like, what am I going to do? And back in the day, I had spent a little bit of time producing my own videos and never wanted to go back to that because it was such a painful experience. You know, still look at some of those videos that are still on YouTube and I cringe a little bit. I think probably because I come from a video background. So even before all of this digital stuff, I produce lifestyle content for the Scripts network, so hgtv, Food Network, Fine Living. So I always had this bent for video quality. So it would really bug me if something didn't look good or didn't sound good, especially if I was the one creating it. It was even worse. I was like, I don't wanna do that. But I realized, like, if I was going to continue with this business, I, you know, could either show up or give up. And I wasn't ready to give up. I had, like, worked too hard on this and the following was still there. So I just figured out a way of like, how can I do this? How can I actually shoot this myself? And would people still watch it? And I think that was the big question is like, I don't. And I think that's what's so interesting about YouTube is like, it will confirm or deny your worst suspicions or best hopes because it's so vocal. It's such a vocal platform.

What does that look like? Is that through comments, through stats?

Yeah, both really. You really know, within the first, I would say two hours if something is doing well or not. And I think YouTube does a really great job of giving you metrics. They now have new snapshot metrics that will tell you like the first 24 hours how things are trending based on how you typically do. You can, you really can find out. But yeah, it's the comments. I mean, people can either be really, really kind or really, really mean. You know, I think that's probably true of most social platforms now, but YouTube especially, I think YouTube is just really tell it like it is.

Yeah. What do you think that is? Is that just like the culture of the platform?

I think so. And I think because it's been around so long, it's also really anonymous. So you can have a you account, you know, butterfly 125 and it's not connected to your Facebook page. Like, I don't know, I don't know. But it is, it's just, it's very vocal. Luckily, I have been very lucky and have a very supportive community, but still, it's scary to get out there and throw something out there that's like kind of a hot mess, which is what my first video looked like.

Do you have advice for people who. This is a little bit of a rabbit trail, but I think it's important to follow advice for people who that is their ultimate fear is.

Yeah.

Putting something online where people can leave a comment and critique on anything from how they look to how they sound to what they're talking about. How do you, how do you navigate that?

I would just say that a, it happens to everybody. So, like, it's part of being initiated on YouTube. You have to know going into it that you will have some of the nicest, kindest things ever said about you. And you will also have some of the meanest, almost awful things said about you. And it could happen in the same day. Do you know what I mean? Like, so just know that that's what's gonna happen. And then the other thing is, is because there are the blocking mechanisms, you can just block people. And oftentimes, and it doesn't happen often, but over the years it just happened where I'm like, that's super obnoxious. And you just block somebody. And I always think of that scene from the wizard of Oz. When is it Glinda the good witch comes down and she has her little wand and she has the evil witch and she says, be gone. You have no power here. And that's what I think of. I'm like, you have no power here. This is my channel that you've come into and you're not invited anymore. So out you go. And that's how you have to think about it.

That's great. And I would say building off of that, if you're somebody who's extremely sensitive to that and know that some of those things would bounce around in your head. Maybe one of the best first hires to make is somebody to spend a couple hours a week to filter through those and to make sure that the worst of those aren't things that you see. Because that stuff can be impactful in terms of having a long term impact of how we think and about ourselves or, you know, about the content that we create. And part of it is developing thick skin around that, which I think comes in time. And I think your point to the statistics of it, like, regardless of who you are, what you do, how successful or capable you are, the statistics are percentage wise, there's always going to be some of that. Obviously that scales up and down depending on what it is and, you know, if you do something egregious, then chances are it's going to be higher, but it'll just happen. But I think it's also wise to, especially when you're first getting started, to allow yourself ample time for that thick skin to develop and to not jump in, jump into the weeds right away so you know that you want to produce quality content. You have a history with this. You hire a crew, they come in, and then suddenly that's taken away, and you have to respond to that. What did that look like?

It was really soul searching. And I think you kind of go through all the emotions right, where you're like, you feel depressed, you feel sad, you're kind of like, what am I going to do? You feel kind of stuck. And then you come around. And at the same time, this was all going on. My dog, our little puppy, fell off a garden bench and had to get, like, emergency back surgery. And I know it was horrible. I know you're a dog person, too.

Totally.

Yeah. And they were like, well, no, he's not going to walk again. There might be a 30% chance. I'm like, what? This dog is only three years old. How is this possible? But he's kind of a biter. He's like a nippy little thing. Not with us, but like most people, he's such a fighter. And this dog, lo and behold, just got himself up every day and kept trying to walk. And now he's like a walking machine. Yeah. So I was like, if he could learn to walk again, surely I could learn how to shoot a YouTube video. He was. He still was. So I think I just. It just hit me. It was like, okay, you can sit here and have your own little pity party, or you can pull up your sleeves like you've always done and figure it out. And I think it does sort of show you and the world what you're made of. So we all have those moments in life. And that, I guess, was mine and you.

It was interesting. You know, we talk about the idea of posting your first video or getting started with it, and kind of some of the hesitations that you have. I'd imagine that with that first video. That was the new way of you creating video. Maybe had a little bit of that.

Oh, my gosh, it did. And it was so bad. Bjork. It was so bad. You guys, you go see it. It's still there. It's like one. It's like a grilled chicken. Grilled chicken three ways. Or grilled chicken three meals. Or Something I had not figured out how to set the exposure settings on the camera. And so it was like nuclearly bright, the whole thing. And I knew it, but there was nothing I could do to fix it. And what was just interesting about it is like people didn't really care. They were just sort of like a plus for trying. And we're glad you're back and we don't. We didn't want to lose you because you didn't, because you let the quality thing get in the way. And I think that's what really underscored for me what YouTube is all about, which is at the end of the day, like it's not the high quality video and the professional this and professional that that people are really tuning into, it's the personalities and your unique point of view and that. No one can take that away from you. You know, you just keep showing up and you can deliver that.

Yeah. One of the things that you said that I think was so impactful is the you in YouTube. And you think about it and it's like, oh, that's really the heart and soul of YouTube is you. It is the person. And you see that in regards to the channels that are most successful is it's very user, it's very personality centric. And I think it's important to talk about that because for people who create food content, one of the types of content that has success on other platforms, or at least did in a season, was this idea of hands and pans videos, which is almost the opposite of you. You don't know who it is and it's. And it's just focused on the recipe. So can you talk about the difference between one of those hands and pans videos and the success that that might find on Facebook or Instagram or maybe platform like TikTok and then talk about YouTube and why YouTube is so different.

Yes. I mean, I think what's interesting about the hands and pans and they do serve their purpose. Like it's great to be scrolling through a feed and see that and get inspired and want to make the recipe. But what's missing from those types of videos is there's no real emotional connection to that. And once you've seen one hands and pans, it's hard to really differentiate others. They all kind of look the same at the end of the day where I think with YouTube you're really putting yourself out there. Like it really is putting you on the tube in all of your quirks, you know, sense of humor, pov, all of it. And people are buying into that. So while, yes, there's a YouTube app and people are scrolling through their uploads, they have a personal connection with you. And when someone has subscribed to like 200 YouTube channels and they see you and you, they like your personality, they're going to click on that thumbnail first because they already feel invested. And it's in a weird way in a very like kind of on demand world. It's, it's almost the last bastion of appointment viewing because people will say, oh, it's Saturday morning. I know Beth is going to post her video on Saturday morning because I've always posted on Saturday morning. And like that is very hard to get. I think in today's world where we're like a school based society to get somebody to actually go to a platform because they know you're on it with a new video that day. Like half your marketing is done. Do you know what I mean? Because they've already known that. And I only think a personal connection can do that.

It's a different version of what, you know, growing up was your favorite show coming on at a certain time and everybody gathering around to sit down and watch it. But maybe on a more individual level, people knowing, hey, there's going to be a piece of content that's coming out this afternoon. And I'm excited about that because this is a channel that I really like. I can think about podcasts as maybe a similar example where yes it is, you have a podcast and you know, I have Mac Break weekly, comes out on Tuesdays and I know that there's going to be one to two hours of conversation around like the latest in Mac and Apple world. And, and that's just something that I know, like it happens on a, on a, on a schedule. The other thing that's interesting and maybe a little bit different with YouTube versus like the hands and pans video on Instagram is length. And would you say in general that the longer, longer is better on YouTube as long as it's engaging the entire time?

Yes, that's exactly right. And that is a really new shift I think that we've seen on YouTube. I think when I started you could get away with three to five minute videos. So like there was a world where hands and pans kind of worked on YouTube. And I understand why people are doing it. Like I do understand like making these videos that they can then put on their blog. They don't really want to put themselves out there. But my feeling is if you're gonna go through the pain and suffering of creating video. And we all know there's pain and suffering. You might as well attract a new audience on YouTube. It may as well work for YouTube. You can always cut that video down into hands and pans if that's what you ultimately want for your blog. But for YouTube now you really need to have a 10 minute video. Plus I think if and but that you will get a great return on that for a couple reasons. One, you are paying into more watch time for your channel. So not necessarily completion rate, but watch time. So this is a new metric that YouTube has really prioritized over the last few years, which is if you post a video that's five minutes long and you get a 50% completion rate, so you have people watching two minutes and 30 seconds, you've clocked two minutes and 30 seconds of watch time. If you post a 10 minute video and people only watch it 50% of the time, you've clocked five minutes of watch time. And it's the higher amount of watch time that YouTube likes and will surface more of your videos in suggested and in all these other sort of promotional places on YouTube that you are not getting audience. So exposing your video to new audiences, that allows you to grow. So that would be number one as longer videos can help you grow on YouTube. But you have to keep their attention. So you can't go on there and be like, okay, I'm going to read from this cookbook now and get my 10 minute video. You have to have the engagement because the algorithm of YouTube, there's hundreds of algorithms on YouTube, but engagement is one of them. So you have to, it's sort of that balance of like, what can I do for 10 minutes that's going to keep people's attention, that they're going to comment on, that they're going to like, that they're going to share, they're going to put in a playlist, they're going to do all those signals that YouTube says like, oh, this is a quality video.

Yeah. And it makes sense when you think of if you had a one minute video, you'd have to have people watch 10 of those to equal the same amount of attention given to a one to one ten minute video. And yes, and you know, so if somebody does watch a one minute video all the way through, but then they also watch a five minute video all the way through, that five minute video is going to be much more valuable. It's like five times more valuable for YouTube because not only are they running ads against that, they want people to stick around, they want people to continue to use the platform. So that makes sense. But then the question becomes how do you create engaging content? What does that look like and what are the things that you need to be aware of from a content creation perspective?

For sure. Well, and I think, and one other thing, we'll get to that same. But one other thing that I want to also point out is like yes, a 10 minute video takes a lot more time to shoot and to edit. But you can triple your revenue from a 10 minute video because once you hit that 10 minute threshold, it clicks in that you can now put three pre roll, three ads. So you can do a pre roll, you can do a mid roll and you can do a post roll. And so when I've looked at my analytics over the last few weeks when I've been doing longer videos because shooting them myself, I can do longer videos because it's not costing me any money. I don't have to get four videos out of a shoot day. I've tripled the revenue. So even though I've gotten the same amount of views because I've had three ad placements, I've made three times the amount of money. So you make more on that.

And with YouTube, are you picking when you want those ads to play or how many you want or is that just kind of a general like no ads, medium ads, lots of ads. How does that work in terms of deciding how many ads you're playing?

For sure you can totally pick it. If your video is 10 minutes, then it'll allow you that the box like opens up and then you can check it for mid roll. If your video is not, you can't. So they sort of limit it in that sense. You can manually insert them. Or what I do is I let YouTube insert them based on viewer behavior and I think that's actually better. And the funny thing is, unlike a blog where people will like complain about like oh my God, there's too many ads on YouTube, people don't for that. I've never seen it for that length of video because they're wired to television. Like that's what television is. You watch for a little bit, you get an ad like it's different, you know.

Yep, yep, that makes sense. So idea being you're creating this content, this content is longer and longer. Engaging content is going to be prioritized by YouTube and you're also able to include more ads on that. So when people go into it, if they're used to creating these hands and pans, Videos.

Yeah.

Maybe have a little bit of a formula for it. You kind of have to blow that formula up and rebuild it in a way where now you have 10 to 15 minutes of time to fill about something that you were previously communicating to varying degrees of success within a minute. So how do you expand that out? What are the additional valuable things that you include in a video?

Yeah, you can do it a couple of different ways and I usually use a few of these tactics in each video. So tactic number one, the easiest is to do recipes that might have more components to it. So if you just do like a blueberry muffin, you're probably not going to get a 10 minute video. But if you do a blueberry muffin with three different toppings, then that suddenly takes that one idea and then you're doing a crumb topping and then maybe you're doing, I don't know, almond crunch or an oatmeal, or maybe you're then doing a vegan muffin. So you can do one recipe kind of three ways. That's one way to do it. Another way to do it is to inject personal stories and personality into a video in a way that is teaching people things but is also entertaining. So if you're like stirring something and you say, well, you want to reduce these mangoes down because people know that they're not missing anything, there's just stirring going on, that's a great time to say, you know, the first time I peeled a mango, or here's how you cut a mango, like some personal thing that starts to engage people with your story, with who you are as a person. So that over time, when they watch enough videos and you bring up that mango story again, they're already in on the joke. And there's something really powerful about being part of someone's tribe in that way that you're always in on the joke. So that's another way to do it. And then the third way I would say would be to like break down certain tips and things. So if you're, you know, making a beurre blanc sauce and then you show people how to do it, and then you can also say, if your beurre blanc sauce breaks, here's how you fix it. So you're not adding any new recipe content so you don't have to develop it, but you're basically adding a tip that adds more time.

Yeah. And diving deep in certain areas. And I think diving deeper comes down to, you know, which path you go down depends on what you feel most comfortable with. And capable of. If you're somebody who's maybe more left brain and love the idea of providing clear guidelines and tips and advice around, let's say perfecting a certain recipe or a coffee or something, you can do that. But if you're somebody who loves storytelling and can and can tell really engaging stories around a recipe, then you could do it in that way. So some reflection on who you are and how you create content and the way that you do that best I think would make sense there. One of the things that you had mentioned that I think is so fascinating and so foreign to people who are don't use YouTube is this idea of getting exposure to your content. And in the blogging world, we think of SEO and search optimization and maybe Pinterest a little bit as well. But what is that? How, what does that formula look like on YouTube? And you talk specifically about this idea of different rings. I think that was for me, as I read through that, I was like, oh, that makes sense. But. But it was, it was a different type of idea for getting exposure to content.

Yes, exactly. So. And I think that's a bit of like a something that people have to get their head wrapped around in the beginning. They'll think, oh, I have 10,000 subscribers on YouTube. When I post a video, all 10,000 people are being notified. But that's actually not how it's working. I think a lot of platforms probably now work this way where you have to kind of earn yourself, earn your way through, through the various rings. So when you post a video on YouTube, the people who get the notification first are your sort of superfans. So these are the people that typically watch your videos every week. They comment, they're subscribed, they put things in playlists. So it kind of goes to them first. If the video performs well in watch time, in completion rate, and shares all the different metrics that YouTube looks at for, oh, this video is resonating, then it goes to that second ring. So this might be the people who then watch your videos occasionally they may or may not be subscribed and so on until you get to what I would call the brass ring, which is that ring of they're not exposing your subscribers, they're exposing the YouTube audience as a whole. And that's the brass ring or the gold ring, because then you're getting new subscriptions. And this can be posting it on the homepage or in up next or in related to a video that's not one of yours. And when I've had videos appear there and you can look at, you can see it in your analytics. It'll say suggested. And if you're suggested is like say at 10%. And then suddenly it starts to climb to like 20, 30, 40, 50, 60%. Like you're going to see tremendous growth there because that's all fresh eyeballs.

Yep. It's interesting. I feel like a good example of that is this YouTube channel that has started to pop up in my feed a lot and it's become a joke now because I like, whenever this person creates a new video, I send it to my friends, which I'm sure then they just continually show it is the Sax Squatch and it's a guy dressed up in a Sasquatch suit playing the saxophone like cover bands. It feels like the ultimate, like, fringe YouTube. Yeah, but what's funny is like there was at one point, for whatever reason, YouTube said, hey, this, I think you would like this video. And I feel like it's the ultimate YouTube suggested video. And now it's something that I. That I'm seeing all the time. But there's lots of other examples of that where based on your. In. What's interesting about it is it's based on your. Your personal watch history and the things that you have been interested in. Which maybe speaks volumes to how I'm consuming casual US YouTube content. But then it's also what I hear you saying is the performance of that video based on those earlier rings for that account. So if it proves to be successful with the inner rings, like the followers, the super fans, the people who know it and are familiar with it, then YouTube says, hey, if we show this to other people, they might also stay engaged with this piece of content like these earlier rings did. And it sounds like that's kind of how you get at growth, is you get outside of your immediate rings by producing engaging, interesting content that people continue to watch and then eventually get outside of that to people who haven't searched for your content or they aren't looking for it, but they come across it because it's a suggested video. Is that right?

Exactly. That's exactly right. Which is why it's so important to play to that superfan audience. Meaning do the content that they want create content that they've already loved. Because if it's going to resonate with them, it's like those rings in the ocean. When you drop a pebble, it's just going to reverberate. If you create something that's. That doesn't resonate with them, then you're not Going to get that early, like engagement signals that's going to send to YouTube to widely distribute it. So that's what makes it easy, is just listen to the audience.

Yeah. What does that look like? What does that look like for you? So as you think about paying attention to your audience, listening to your audience on YouTube, how would you like, would there be an example of how you would do that and then fold that into your production in a weekly or monthly basis?

Yes. I mean the simplest way really is just to ask them. You can always do that. And I've started doing that now that I'm shooting these videos myself because I'm only shooting one a week. So like the ramp up time is really small. So I can basically say at the end of a video, okay, what do you guys want next week? I've got this really great pasta recipe or this really delicious Nutella ice cream. Tell me what you want. And then everybody chimes in and that's easy enough. So I just did that. But the way that I used to do it, because I produced so far in advance, sometimes that wasn't as easy because people don't want to delay between when they request something and then like two months later you bring it. That's a little frustrating is to look at past success. And this is my new little YouTube growth hack that I think is so valuable and I've seen it play out really well, which is look in your analytics for your top 10 videos, what was number one or number two a year from now? So I did this around Christmas time with this puff pastry video that I produced. And I could see that over the course of like two or three years, every December, this video would spike and would just do really well. And that's the thing that YouTube is doing now that's a little bit different is they will resurface old videos. They could. This was a video that was like four or five years old. But whatever reason, it was in my top 10 because they are now resurfacing videos. So it doesn't have to be a new video. Chances are if you look in your YouTube analytics, I bet half of the videos are old video that continued to perform the best. So I took this puff pastry video and I was like, okay, I'm going to produce a new puff pastry video knowing that this one seems to do well. And I did that and put the new video as an end card in the old video. So as that old video was getting all of these new views on it, it's now driving to the new video and Then the new video had the end card driving to the old video. So basically what you try to do is create a reciprocal relationship between those two videos because you knew one was successful, that the new one is going to be successful. And what that does for YouTube is it tells them, oh, people who watch video A, then suddenly watch video B. We should suggest these videos to each other in up next. And I've done that, and in two cases had a video reach over 100,000 views in just like seven to 14 days. Only because the old video was so successful, it was driving all of these views to the new video. And they continue to do well because it's the gift that keeps giving. Once YouTube has established that connection, it just keeps connecting them.

Got it. So I'm going to recap here to see if I can understand that correctly.

I know, sorry, it's really in the weeds.

No, it's great. And it makes a lot of sense. So this is with. With all of this, assuming the goal that YouTube is trying to accomplish is keeping people on the platform, which we will call watch time. And so as a creator, like you said, you want to think about creating longer videos. But another way that you can impact watch time is for people continuing to watch multiple videos of yours and that being watch time. So if they watch two five minute videos, that's 10, you know, two 10 minute videos at 20. So the idea is you had a really popular video and what you did is around the same season when that spiked, you created a related video and then you use that, you put in an end card on the old video that allowed people to click and play the new related video. And for those who aren't familiar, end card is just essentially it's a little like picture in picture, ability to click and then see another video. Is that a good.

Yep, that's exactly right.

So people would click on that and then they would watch the next video which was related. At the end of that one, you would put an end card back to the old video. So there's kind of this reciprocal relationship. But the interesting thing that you talked about was it sounds like one of the things that happened was YouTube eventually saw that a lot of people watched that video by clicking on it and then started to autoplay it as a video that played right after they finished. So those are two different things. One, somebody clicks on it and says, I want to watch this video. The second is there's an autoplay video. Once somebody's done that just goes into the next video. Kind of like, like you're watching Netflix or something. But on YouTube, they, I don't know, they do a little countdown or something and then just start playing the video. That's something that YouTube controls for the most part. And what you're saying is you. There was potential that that was connected where they saw a lot of people were watching the old video. And then so eventually they just said, hey, let's just autoplay this as the next video. Is that right?

Yes, exactly. So you sort of force the connection and that ends up creating a lot more views. Because. Because the secret and the is you have to see what's the video that's on fire. Because the video that's on fire is delivering so many views. So that video was delivering, I think in the course of 28 days at Christmas, it was delivering its own hundred thousand views. So I want to get in front of those people for my new video because I want this new video to do equally well. And it did. But you have to pick the video that's on fire. And sometimes if you miss the window, and I've had that happen, I did a Back to School or sort of like a Healthy Lunch box series on a video that had about 3 million views on it, and it was with a brand. And I said, oh, well, let's do it in January, because that's when that video is on fire. And it has been for the last few years. But because it was with a brand that kind of like dragged their fee, we couldn't get this. Long story short, the video did not post until February, did not do half as well because we missed the window because the old video wasn't on fire anymore.

Yeah, when it peaked, it happened earlier than when it peaked. And so it didn't work in the same way. Yeah, as the puff pastry. That makes sense. So one of the things that was interesting was at the beginning of the show, you had kind of talked about how expanding beyond just YouTube was really helpful in regards to building the stability of the revenue for your business. But obviously YouTube still being a source for that. What. What is for people who want to fold YouTube into their business strategy, create some revenue around it? What is the best way to do that? Is it ads? Is it working with sponsors? What do you see right now in terms of revenue creation from YouTube and the best way to do that?

Yeah, I mean, it's such a good question. I think there will always be brands who want to activate on YouTube. You know, you definitely can. If. If your audience size warrants it, you can command a pretty good amount of money for that. I have seen those fees go down over the years just because there's so much more choice now for advertisers on YouTube. Yeah, it's become a little bit saturated, but it's a great thing to add in conjunction with everything else. And that's what I have actually done is I've just done one price. I don't piecemeal it all out. I do one price. And with that they get the YouTube video, the blog posts, the social amplification, the newsletter. They kind of get everything. And I don't let them pick it all apart. I just kind of say, here's the one price and you get everything. And they see it as such added value because so many brands right now need content and they need video content. Like video content's hard for brands to do. And what they can do on YouTube, which is a great service for them, is they can use your video and cut it down and run it as a free roll. So they can take like minded channels or demographic or interests and run it across other channels. And you have your video and you've probably all seen that where it's like, wait, this looks like a YouTube video, but it's like an ad and then you click on it if you're interested in it, and then it'll take you to the full length video.

The idea with that is a brand will pay somebody to create a video and then they'll run a little pre roll ad that will be in front, like let's say it's a flower company and they'll run it in front of another cookie recipe, but it's just a cookie recipe itself which you click on and then you can see that. But essentially it's a way for them to do kind of a certain level of kind of grassroots type marketing where they're getting in front of other content that already exists to see the content that they've paid somebody else to produce.

Right. And in an environment that's at home, do you know what I mean? It feels so much more organic to run an actual YouTube video as an ad as opposed to an ad before a YouTube video. So they really like that. And that seems to work well.

Yeah, yeah.

I would just put a term on it. You know, like most brand deals like that, they can only do it for three months. Yeah.

Yes. Yep. Yes. That's great. Beth. We've covered so much and I feel like there's so much more. We could do like two or three episodes with the amount of knowledge that you have and your enthusiasm and your ability to speak into these issues that is encouraging and exciting for people. You know, if somebody's in. In the place where you were five, six, seven years ago, they've been doing this, they're excited about it, but they need to make that leap. What have you learned along the way that you'd give as advice to them in how they can make that transition? If they want to be doing this full time or even just want to level up a little bit, what were the things that would be most helpful? Whether that be an encouraging word or on the ground, tactical things or reading a book, Maybe it's the War of Art. They pick that up and read it. As we come to the end here and wrap up, what advice would you give to people who are along that journey with you, but maybe a little bit earlier?

Yeah, I mean, I would say look at what it is that you really love about food content. Like, everybody has their own unique point of view. And for me, it's always just been this, you know, sincerest form of love when we cook for people. And I realized that, like, getting on video, I had to get beyond the, oh, I don't like when my hair looks, or, oh, I like the way I talk, or, oh, I don't. Because I had to keep going back to why I was doing it, which was to get people to make their own memories in their own homes and create sort of this nurturing, loving environment around food for their friends and family. And so when I'm feeling insecure or when I have to like, oh my gosh, go now, shoot my own videos, it was that feeling of why I was doing it. So I think really focusing on the why, because that sees you through the uncomfortability of it and the insecurity when you can really focus on what the. The purpose is. And then the crazy thing is that you find other people that share in that purpose, and that's where you get this really amazing community. And when they come back and say, you know, I'm the first person in my family to go to college and I made your apple tart when I told them I got my acceptance letter and now this is a tradition for you're like, okay, mission accomplished. That's what I set out to do, and that's what's happening, and that's a great feeling.

I think it's such a great reminder that we can have these numbers or metrics or goals around business success or whether it's building followers or fans or likes, and I think those are good. And those are helpful, but those will never be as fulfilling as having a clear why and working to accomplish that. And they'll also never be as motivated. Inevitably, you will get to a certain level and then just want to be at the next level and it doesn't really end. And so to embrace that why and have a clear understanding of the purpose behind it is such a good reminder. My guess is there's going to be some people who are interested in following along with what you do, seeing your journey as you continue to produce video and following along with what you do. Beth, where's the best way for people to connect with you online if they do want to follow along?

Sure. Definitely. On YouTube I'm entertaining with Beth and Instagram entertaining with Beth. And those are usually the two places I check first for comments in the morning, so those are good spots to find me.

Awesome. So great, Beth. So good to connect again and hear what you've been up to. And thanks for sharing some of the high level advice, insight, inspiration, and then also some of those cool, tactical things that are happening on the Grinder. And I really appreciate it.

It absolutely. It's always good to be with you. Bjork. Thank you so much for having me. And stay safe during these crazy times.

All right? Yes, you too. Appreciate it.

Insane. Okay, take care. Bye. Bye.

And that's a wrap for this episode of the Food Blogger Pro podcast. Again, thank you for tuning in in and for making the show a part of your week today. I just loved this interview with Beth and I loved when she said that, you know, she was either going to show up and give up, and she's worked too hard to give up. And I think that's just a really great reminder. In life and in business and running a food blog, it's easy to feel like you're at a crossroads where you could either, you know, just give up and scrap your whole blog or keep going and pushing yourself. And I just think Beth's story and her experiences are just such a great reminder for when things get tough. So we hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did, you can leave us a comment on the show notes for this episode@foodbloggerpro.com 259 and that will take you right to the show notes. And you can check out some of the links that how they mentioned in this episode, like the Sax Squatch YouTube channel that Bjork mentioned, along with some other resources that Beth mentioned in today's episode. But that does it for us this week. We appreciate you. It's just so awesome that you're here. We love connecting with you in this format, and we'll see you next week. So until then, make it a great week.

Sam.