264: Persistence - Building a Seven-Figure Blogging Business with Chelsea Lords

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Welcome on. And welcome all to this week's episode of the Food Blogger Pro podcast. I'm Alexa and we are so excited that you're here today that you decided to tune in to this episode because, oh boy, howdy, is it a good one. Today we are revisiting a conversation that we had three, four years ago with Chelsea Lords from Chelsea's Messy Apron, and this is one of our most popular episodes ever. Well, I guess the last one was the first time she was on the podcast, one of our most popular episodes. And this one, I have a feeling is going to be a really popular one too, because she just talks about so many different things, so many different reasons why Chelsea's Messy Apron is what it is today. And it's just a really fascinating interview. She'll talk about the importance of finding people, like a little support group of fellow bloggers who understand what you're doing and what you're trying to to accomplish. She talks about creating content for her readers first and foremost, and just putting that at the forefront of everything that she does, which I think is just so important. And she talks about how she's making a seven figure income, which is fantastic and just so exciting to see. I'm just loving this little series that we're doing on the podcast right now where we're revisiting some conversations that we've had with bloggers in the past. And it's just so much fun to see what they're up to and how their blog has evolved and changed. We first talked to them. So if you've never checked out our first interview with Chelsea, it's linked in the show notes for this episode@foodbloggerpro.com 264 Otherwise, let's jump into this revisit of our conversation with Chelsea right now. So without any further ado, Bjork, take it away.

Chelsea, welcome back to the podcast.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here today.

Yeah, before we hit record, we were talking a little bit with any of these touchpoint podcasts where we're revisiting some of the conversations we've had. I almost always remember exactly where I was sitting when, when we had the conversation. And inevitably it's like, wait, that wasn't that long ago that we chatted. And yet so many things in life change, both personally and within business. And that's what our hope is for these podcasts is to touch on a few of those things. But I'd be curious to know for you when you look Back, if you can remember in that moment when we were having that conversation, what are some of the biggest things that are different in your life now compared to three years ago, more than three years ago when we had that conversation?

Yeah, a lot has changed and you know, similarly to you, it doesn't feel like it's been that long, but a lot's changed just in my life, personally and professionally on the blog. Like I remember that conversations we were having that Facebook was just booming for me and it was exploding and I was focusing on Facebook and now, you know, just the landscape, how much it's changed in the what to four years. It's just crazy how much it's always shifting. But you know, there's Facebook still very big part of my business. It's just not my primary focus today. So I feel like back when we talked that was like I was putting everything into Facebook. It was driving me the most traffic. And now today it's, you know, probably the second or third refer. And so just how just kind of adjusting with the blogging landscape, which I feel like is kind of a continual process, like every few months, every six months, every year, it feels so different.

Uh huh. What? So when you talk about the traffic referrals and for anybody that wants to check out that other episode, we'll link to that in the show notes and you can go back and check that out. Not that necessarily go back and you get all these tips and tricks and advice that are relevant because three years, like we said, is a long time. A lot of things change. But I think it's helpful context to frame some of these conversations when we talk to people more than once. But Facebook shifts, it becomes harder to drive traffic. What were the things that then took the place of Facebook? So if that was number one when we last talked, what moved into spot one or two and moved Facebook down.

So currently right now my number one traffic driver is Google. And also close up there is direct traffic. So people directly coming to my site, longtime readers, and then of course just Google search engine people searching for recipes and then coming to my site from that.

Yeah. Can you talk about what it was like to see Facebook starting to shift and knowing that the work that you had done and the success that you'd had there was starting to be over time it was trending down because I think that's one of the things that after doing this for 10 years, you, for 7 years you start to realize like there are ebbs and flows where something works really well. You put time and energy into it. And then eventually it stops working. That can be kind of discouraging. What was that like for you to see something that was working really well start to not work as well?

I mean, you summed it up perfectly. There's so many ebbs and flows. And it was a really hard time for me when my Facebook basically went from just driving tons and tons of traffic and obviously money, and it almost overnight, Bjork. It almost just died completely. Like, I got hit by some kind of algorithm. As bloggers, we called it the kiss of death. Like, I was reaching zero people. And it was really, really hard. Like, it was a very discouraging time. And like you said, it's hard to see something. You've poured in all this passion and this work, and obviously I'm putting that work on the website, but I was really strategizing my content to create, like, Facebook videos, You know, those quick hands and hands, and I kind of found my niche, I guess. I was making, like, four in one videos, and those took so much time, but they were driving so much traffic, and just every one of them was exploding on Facebook.

Can you explain what you mean by that? Four in one video?

Oh, sure. Sorry. So, like, four recipes in one video. So kind of like having a theme, like, I did a lot around the holidays. So I had, like, four Halloween Oreo balls, you know, decorated like Halloween, or like four quick crock pot meals, four chicken marinades. Kind of just having four recipes in one really short video for some reason, that just really hit it with my audience on Facebook. And pretty much every single one of those I did, like, just brought me in tons of traffic and just did really well. But those were taking me, you know, a lot of time. A lot of time brainstorming, a lot of time creating those recipes and then filming. And then I'd share them all of a sudden, and it would reach, like, two people. Is what my.

It is the worst. Can you explain? So you kind of called it the kiss of death. What I mean, for people who are like, wait, what that can happen? We don't really know exactly what's happening behind the scenes, but from a. Like, our best guess is what, like, when you. When. When one day you were able to do that, the next day you weren't. Is there any idea of, like, what's going on behind the scenes to make that happen? Any hypothesis that you have around what Facebook is doing?

I mean, like, a lot of us as bloggers and friends that weren't having this happen, we all kind of, like, dug in and were Trying to find what was similar on our pages. And like you said, you just never know like social media. And I think even Google, they give and they can take and they can do it whenever they want. But I think it was just a really hard algorithm shift. It was when they were trying to introduce, you know, having these pages and they were just trying to go to long form video. I think for some, for whatever reason Facebook wasn't liking that I was sharing other content. And so it was just a lot of trial and error by other content. I mean like I was sharing like other bloggers posts or just other viral like memes I found, I guess and for some reason like, like every time I did that it was like giving me notices like hey, this is copyrighted comp 10. Like you can't share this or you know, things that weren't actually correct. But for whatever reason Facebook was flagging my page as that. So you know, today like I really miss sharing other people's content, but whenever I do it kind of takes down my reach. So it's, it's kind of, I think personal, depending on your page and what works. But as I've worked and problem solved and like tried to figure out the algorithm for my page, like, and I'm not saying this works for everyone, but what I was finding was I just needed to share my content, I need to share less often. I was sharing too frequently. You know, they wanted like longer form videos or. And it kind of is always shifting. I mean it's not like one way or another. Sometimes links do really well, sometimes just photos do really well, sometimes just videos. So it was just, it's just constantly a lot of trial and error and that's covered.

It's interesting. One of the things I've heard people talk about as they are, you know, whether it's a podcast or an interview or people from some of these companies are used to be there. It's interesting because a lot of times I think we, I think like, oh, somebody's there at Facebook, at Google and they know like exactly what the different pieces of the algorithm is. But I think it's so big and complex and there's so many pieces to it that even people within an organization don't have total clarity on exactly how it works. And obviously that depends on the position and where you work and how close you are to some of those decisions. But these things are so vast and there's so many levers that go into it that it's, it's something that not everybody has total, totally Clear understanding of. So when, when that, when that process happened, when there was like, oh, suddenly this thing that worked really well, that drove a lot of traffic, granted, put a lot of time and energy into it, but it paid off because you were able to, you know, create four recipe videos, put them into one that drove a lot of traffic. Now suddenly it doesn't. So very quickly you're like, well, this isn't worth it for me to put all my time and energy into doing these. What do you shift to? And does that feel like starting from zero in a new area? And how do you then learn about getting traction in a new space?

Right, that's a great question. And honestly, it's something that I contemplate a lot. I just think as the blog world and the Internet just shifts, it's something we have to, as content creators keep on top of mind always, constantly. Because I think anytime we put all of our eggs in one basket, it's just a very poorly thought out strategy. And so I think that was how I used to think. Like, oh, whatever is bringing me the most traffic, I am going to do everything to, you know, optimize on that. And now I feel that my thinking is more, how can I get traffic from all different sources? How can I make sure I'm never limiting myself? How can I work smarter, not harder? How can I leverage what I have and improve it while not putting everything into one basket? And so that's kind of when I got hit hard with Facebook. It was, okay, how do I pick myself up again and how do I get this traffic back in a different way? And the answer at the time for me was actually Google because it was something I had never felt focused on. I felt like I'm, you know, killed it on Pinterest, was obviously killing it on Facebook, which were driving tons of traffic. I was slowly, gradually growing direct hits, you know, have just gradually grown that all of my years of blogging and so Google is the one thing I had never truly focused on. And so I started, you know, diving deep into learning SEO and learning how to better optimize my posts, how to make my website a little bit cleaner and fixed errors on the back end. And so that's kind of where I focused. But I didn't put, like everything into that. You know, I kept trying to figure out Facebook. It was tons of trial and error to get my reach back up that, you know, today it's actually doing really well. I get a lot of traffic. Again, I was trying to figure out Pinterest, just trial and error, again, trying to figure out what. What to drive traffic and working on, really everything. I was making sure to keep, you know, good relationships with brands that I was working with and, you know, just make sure that my income was very diversified and that my website traffic traffic is very diversified.

Yeah. Can you talk about that on the income side, how did you diversify the income sources you had? Because I think a lot of people, especially in this niche, but in publishers in general who have the high sites or high traffic sites or sites with potential for high traffic, advertising is kind of the classic way to do that. But it sounds like you were intentional to look at other ways so as not to be completely siloed in one industry for income. How did you go about doing that?

And so obviously, my ebook was a big. A big way for me to diversify income. That was my product that I could sell, which just felt safe. You know, that's. No one. No one can take that away from me. And then obviously you mentioned website traffic. That's still my number one source of income. But something I focused a lot on and worked hard on is just keeping really good relationships with brands and brands that I'd worked with for years, like, pitching them different ideas. Like, hey, I know we did a blog post. What if we did an Instagram video? Or, you know, I think this is doing really well on Pinterest right now. What if we do this campaign? Or, you know, just pitching these brands that I'd worked with and keeping these relationships. I have worked with some brands for five years now, and I'll even reach out to them, like, hey, like, the holidays are coming. I am. You know, my traffic goes to this in the holidays. And I feel like a targeted Facebook video of your product in this recipe would kill it. Like, let's. Let's work on this together. Or. And along with that, I really raised my rates, like, a lot. I made. I feel like I made sure that I could create the best sponsored content possible that was worth it to these brands. And that, you know, that alone makes that basket of income a lot higher. Like, you're making a lot more for one sponsored post, which obviously is a great sum of money at one point, whereas website traffic is, you know, it's gradual and slower and you don't get, like, one big check for one post.

Yeah. So there's a lot of really cool stuff to pull out there. And we've been having some conversations over the last few months about brands and working with brands and doing sponsored content. Can you talk about maybe just Highlight a few of the things that have been most important for you to continue to have successful relationships with other brands. What is it about those relationships that have allowed you to maintain them and for you to have revenue from them, but for the brand to say, hey, this is worth it for us, right?

That's a great question. I think one of the biggest things is just remembering, like, they're people too, you know, these. It's not just like, a brand. You're working with a PR agency or someone from this brand, and at the end of the day, like, just being a decent, kind person, I think. And brands have told me they're like, you know, a lot of influencers are kind of divas or they're my way or the highway. And it's disheartening to hear that because, you know, I want us to continue to get work, and I want us to be realized for the potential we have for brands. And so I think the number one thing is I want to create an actual relationship. I want to be friends with this PR rep or with this, you know, actual person that's running this company. Like, I want to create a relationship, and I love getting on the phone, or my husband will get on a phone call and just. Just talk and just, like, create a base relationship. You know, be an actual, like, kind person, I guess.

Yeah, yeah.

And that sounds like an obvious.

Well, no, it's interesting. So we did this event with my friend Bruno, who has a company called Influence Kit, focused on calendars, content calendars and reporting and things like that. And he had a DIY kind of home improvement site called Curble. And that's like the number one thing he said was being somebody who is trustworthy, honest, hard working is enjoyable to be around and to work with. And it's kind of like any other thing in life, like your friends, your co workers. If you're building a team, it's the people you hire. If you're joining a team, it's the person you're working for. You want to find people that you enjoy working alongside and working for. And that's true for a brand because that's gonna make their life so much easier and their job so much more enjoyable. If you distill that down to what that looks like, would you say it's like, could you say, here's what that looks like. It's being nice, it's being kind, Showing up on time, delivering stuff on time. Other things that you'd add to that that you would say have been helpful.

Right. Like, even just small Asks, like, I think a lot of times, you know, brands will just want, like, changes made or things that you're like, okay, well, that takes me extra time. And a lot of people will be like, well, I'm going to charge for that, or I'm going to stick it to them, or I'm going to tell them why this can't happen. And a lot of times, I mean, if it's really, truly needing to be charged more, I will do that. But I feel like my rates are high enough that it's like, okay, like, I want you to be just as happy with, you know, what you're getting as I am trying to create something really great for you. And so a lot of times, like, I'll go the extra mile. I'll do things that, you know, maybe wasn't necessarily spelled out in a contract just because I want them to be happy. I want them to remember working with me and enjoyed joining that process. And, you know, there's been times and learning experiences for me where I've been like, oh, I'm not. I'm sorry, I'm not going to change that. Like, you're going to have to pay me to change that. And it just doesn't go over well. It's just not, you know, yeah, it took me extra time, but maybe it was something I should have specified. And I just think not having this attitude where, oh, I, you know, any brand wants to work with me or I make so much money, it's fine, like, whatever. Like, it's just a terrible attitude to have. And I can do anything for future relationships and, you know, all my traffic could go away. I don't know. And I could be really on these brands. And I think just keeping that in the forefront my mind, like, go the extra mile, like, make them happy with what they're getting. And, you know, sometimes there are brands that are difficult to work with, but if you just, you know, really try to make it a pleasurable, enjoyable experience, I think it ends well for everyone. And at the end of the day, they're going to come back and be like, hey, we really enjoyed working with you. We want to do something else with you. And they're okay with your rates being higher. They're okay with, you know, different timelines because they enjoy you and they know that you're going to be like, you're going to work with them.

Yeah, that's awesome. Can you talk about how you went about raising rates? I think that's something that people are always a little bit scared to do. Or hesitant, or they don't know if they should do it. They don't know what their rate should be. How did you go about approaching that? And any advice that you'd give for people who are trying to figure that out?

Yeah, this is a tricky, A tricky question, but I think it's just at the end of the day, like, what am I willing to do this work for? And what I mean by that is sponsored work takes a lot of time. Whether it's the back and forth working with a brand, whether it's the approvals or, you know, like just phone calls with them or discussing and negotiating, like, at the end of the day, it takes a lot of time away. And so it's like, in that time, like, what kind of content could I create for my site that could, you know, boost my traffic more? Or what could I do for my social media channels? Like, what is worth it? And just in. I feel like I've always been super transparent. I wrote this book, like, what I'm making now, like, on my website, traffic. I'm making, you know, seven figures from just traffic that it's like, what is worth taking time away from building that traffic, cleaning up posts, like, working to create new content versus taking time out and doing something for a brand that might not necessarily, like, explode on social media that's more tailored, like, what is that worth it to me? And I think question I continually come back to. And at the end of the day, like, a lot of brands will be like, I'm sorry, like, we can't make that work. And that's okay. Like, you have to be okay with that. And another thing that I found is really helpful is I'll go back to the brand and be like, yeah, I get that. Like, my blog post rate is really high. Would you like to just partner in an Instagram story? Would you like to just partner in a video? Would you like to just partner in me creating a recipe for you? And it always, almost always ends that they'll want something in a package deal. And so I'm not spending tons and tons of time doing this post that's not worth it. And instead, I can still make some income from it, but it's like doing smaller tasks that, you know, my team can help with or things that don't require as much of my time. And it's still good money. And so I don't know if that's like, answering your question, but it's like, basically like, what is.

It's great. Yeah, for sure. And I think that changes there's variables that exist within that. One might be how much you feel aligned with the brand. One might be how much time you have. One might be, like, how much you actually enjoy doing sponsored content.

Right.

So all of those kind of factor into it. And so it's hard to have this blanket answer of like, here's exactly how much it should be. And part of it too is like time value of your money. And that's very different if you're running, you know, a business that is, has, you know, seven figures of revenue versus in the early stages when you're trying to figure it out. So I think that makes, I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, for sure.

Like you're willing to turn things down when you're making like, I don't want to like, you know, drop that income basket, but it's like, I'm willing to do less of it if I am making such a high income in this other basket.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Not to like contradict myself, like, I still keep these relationships alive, but I'm not willing to do a lot of work for a little bit of money, I guess. Kind of where I'm at.

Yeah. So, you know, when we first did that interview, it's one of the most popular interviews that we've done on the podcast. And I think a huge part of that was this conversation that we had around the title of your book, which was making the first 40,000 in your first year of blogging. Making 40,000 in your first year of blogging. And I think that concept is really appealing for people because they can say like, okay, this is something that, you know, it's not this unachievable thing. It's going to be. It's going to meet me where I'm at and help me get started. So we want to make sure to shine a light on that. We'll link to that in the show notes. We talk a lot about that in the first interview you did, but a lot has changed since then. You share some of the kind of high level details of what the business is doing in terms of numbers right now. What did it take to get from that point where you are now? It's a big question and there's a lot involved with that. But how did you make that transition from starting out with what is a solid salary, $40,000 from creating content to now having a site that's producing seven figures of revenue and providing for your family and, you know, employing, I would guess, or paying certain people in certain, certain areas? Like this is Now a very legitimate business. How did you, how did you make that happen? And that is the million dollar question that a lot of people want to know.

I love that question and thank you very much. That was a kind way to introduce that. I want to say a few different things. The one thing that I always share with people is it takes so much hard work and grit. And I know I shared this in my first one, but it in my first episode with you, but just a lot, a lot of hard work and a lot of giving up. You know, fun, fun nights for work nights and especially balancing a family with children. Like it is just a lot of planning. It's a lot, a lot of hard work and grit. Beyond just that hard work. I think more than anything it's just having this mindset of persistence. And I am, if you ask my friends or family or anyone, I'm an extremely like stubborn person. I'm very, very persistent and I think it's just continually not taking no for an answer. We've talked a little bit about Facebook being like a huge failure for me at the time and just basically just having grit against failure. You look at the site and you can say, oh wow, like look at how it's grown and look at the income and look at who you've employed. But what you don't see are the long hard nights just trying to brainstorm how to fix different things on my site. What you don't see are the tears of, you know, like discouragement when things don't work out. And what you don't see is, you know, those hours and those days and just that hard work and that persistence and that getting back up after I've fallen down, you know, a hundred different times and watching his recipes that I put my heart and soul into just fall flat and you know, the hateful comments that people will send and just you don't see all those small day to day things. But it's just really like this refusal to take no for an answer, this refusal to allow failure to define the site. And just this grit and this hard work and just consistency doing that day in and day out. And it's been seven years, it's not been a small journey and I am so, so grateful. And it's not just been me alone. I have a team now and it's on so many people to bring this business to where it is. But it's at the end of the day, it's just a lot of hard work and grit.

Yeah, it seems like a through line that whether it Be in the genre of publishing, or as specific as food and recipe content, or just building a business. Or it could even be go so far as to say like a nonprofit, like in order. The amount of effort it takes to get something off the ground and flying and, and not only that, but like pointed in the right direction is incredible. And my guess is that even whether aware of it or not, you've developed some mindsets, some frameworks, some ways that you work along the way, and a few of those things you've kind of pointed out, and I'd be interested to hear a little bit more about that one is you talked about working smarter, not harder, which I think is a concept that a lot of us understand. But what does that look like for you in your day to day to work smarter as opposed to just harder.

For me, a big thing was giving up control and that's in the form of hiring employees for other people to do things that I am not as talented at. I'm not as naturally inept. Like things that I was spending more time trying to figure out that someone is smarter than me and just quicker than me, them doing that task.

Yeah. Do you have an example?

So we have a full time editor. I would say I am not a very good writer and a terrible editor. Like, I'm just not a strong, not a strong point for me. And so hiring an editor has just taken off a huge load from my chest. And she's amazing, just such a great worker. And I feel like I'll send in a post to her and it comes back to me and I'm like, oh, this makes so much more sense than.

When I wrote it first.

And my husband, like, same thing when we were writing the book. Like, he helped me a lot with that process of writing. Like, I just, I'm so painstakingly slow and it doesn't, you know, it just my thoughts don't translate to words as well as I'd like them to. And so that was a huge time saving thing for me where I could just, you know, kind of bust out a draft that's not super, super great, but she can, you know, make tweak it and make it sound really good and make it make sense.

Yeah, I think, I think for a lot of people that can relate to that because writing for somebody who has a blog is such a big part of it. But there's also recipe development and there's photography or there's video. These other things that people might love to do, but then they feel like there's this necessary Evil. Some people love reading. Right. But, like, for some people, they feel like it's this necessary evil that's just a total dragon. But I think it's daunting to the.

Whole creation process for me.

Yeah. Say that again.

That last part, it's just like a daunting process. It makes the creative part and the part that I love less enjoyable because I know. Oh, no, it's coming after, right?

Yeah, yeah. And I think that there's. Everybody listening to this can probably identify something that they feel that way about. Can you talk about at what point did you start to identify those areas and bring people in to help with them? And did you do that once the blog was profitable enough? Did you do that before? Like, how did you slowly start to build a team and start to task people with the things that were the biggest bottleneck for you?

Right. So it's really hard because when you first start a blog or a business, like, you don't really have the means to bring on team members, and you really do have to do everything, and you have to wear all these different hats. And that's what I think is just such a hard. It's really hard to start a business and to start it because you really do have to do all of these things. So I think for me, it was gradually, as the business grew and started making more money that I felt that I could spend that money, you know, reinvested into the blog, I guess. And so probably, oh, around year three is when we three or four, whenever I talked to you, I had hired my first virtual assistant. And that, like, made such a huge difference that I think, you know, as soon as I saw what that did for the blog and, like, even just for my peace of mind and my own sanity, like, I constantly been kind of looking, okay, what else do I not enjoy? Like, and what do I enjoy? And even making lists and, like, making. Writing down. Like, what are the things that I really enjoy doing? What are the things that I feel like I'm really good at doing? And what are the things that I don't love doing? What are the things that keep getting put off? Like, actually writing it down and really, like, digging deep? Like, what are you not good at? And that's kind of a hard thing to look at. Like, oh, you know what? Like, if I'm honest with, I'm really not the best writer. And that's kind of like a hard pill to swallow because you're like, I'm a blogger, right?

Sure.

But, you know, like, when I'm honest With myself. Like it isn't one of my strong suits. Like I feel like I'm really good at recipe developing. I feel like I'm really good at photography and I love those things. Like those are my favorites. And so as I really thought about it, it's like, okay, well let's get someone that is better than me that can help out. And like you said it was as the income increased, just being able to spend that income and basically reinvest it into the business. And every time I feel like it's been a payoff with every single employee because I feel like the business grows more, it makes more money because you know, it's, it's a better site. It's better than just what I could do because now we have lots of people doing what they're best at and making it just better site as a whole.

Yeah. Do you, are there a couple other ways that people are helping out with the site that you be able to highlight that have you know, kind of those different stages of unlocking growth or areas that you've outsourced that have or brought in people to help with that have been helpful along the way?

Yes. So I have a full time employee now that comes in and actually helps me prep and photograph and edit the photos. So we do creation, like content creation. And during that time I also have someone come in and help with my kids in the morning just so they're having fun, they're being entertained and I can just like really focus on doing that content in the morning. That's when I create to all of my content and then outsource a lot of video creation. Just a third parties and recently just hired part time to like create videos in house for the site. That's something I'm kind of working like I want to start getting into maybe like some YouTube style video and anyways we're brainstorming about video right now. So that's moving. And then my husband who's been a big, you know, big part of the site, he still does like all the accounting, he does a lot of brand partnerships and reaching out and keeping those partnerships, like you know, keeping them going or negotiating different contracts with them. Like we do a lot of that together but he kind of keeps that all organized, has like reminders to follow up and that's really, really nice. He's very organized. That's definitely one something he's very skill to have.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. So he's great. And then I said, you know, we have an editor and then just like other Small things that are sure, I guess outsourced obviously, like website development or you know, all the different things that keeping your website running.

Yep, yep, that's for sure. So if you look back now that you've been doing this for seven years, would you be able to highlight things that. Two parts to the question. I wish I would have done that sooner. A lot of times people say bring a team, hire people, it could definitely be part of that. But other thoughts that you have around things that you wish you would have done sooner or known about sooner. And then as you look back, things that you would have said, if I were to go back, I probably wouldn't do this again. Maybe it would fall in that camp of like, hey, this is what you would consider failure. It was one of the things you had said was like, I've seen failure a lot and I've worked through that. What, you know, if you could go back, what were some of those things that, that you worked through? So we can start with the things that maybe let's start there and then we can end with the positive. So are there things you'd go back and you'd be like, gosh, I don't know if I would do that again. It wasn't worth it. And if I gave myself advice, I would say don't do that.

Uh huh. I mean this is probably, probably a bad answer but I am like so grateful for every failure because I feel like it's led me to where I am and it's taught me like those lessons that I've needed to learn. So I think like it's an essential part of the business. But I mean that's like a really high level answer, I guess, like digging in. I think the biggest thing I wish I hadn't done was. And this is hard because when I started blogging it was kind of like, tell a personal story or tell about your day or like, you know, I wish from day one that I had just written content that was really helpful. Like content that helps readers make that recipe better or helped people understand how to cook or bake better. I wish, like that's my biggest thing, like from day one, because as I'm slowly going back and like updating content, it's just first of all it's cringy and second of all it's not helpful. Like I wish that I just kind of had more the mindset of like, let's make every post something that is very helpful, high level to someone that's, you know, never cooked or someone that's Somewhat familiar with cooking or even to an expert that somewhere like, this post is helpful. And I think that's been the biggest. Like, oh, I wish I had written like that from day one.

That's great. And I think the idea of having a really clear understanding of who's coming there and what their problem is and doing whatever you can to help them solve that. And a lot of times for people who are publishing recipes, the problem is they need to find something that they can understand how to make it and have success with that. And if you can do the best job of that, you'll get traction in your area of focus. And if that's recipes, it's being as clear and concise and as helpful as possible, which I think is great advice. How about things that you would have done sooner?

I mean, definitely done that sooner, too, because I'm slowly going back and, like, rewriting posts. Like, I wish, like you said, like, just had had that clear mindset of how can each post be super helpful instead of, like, how can each post be, like, clever and funny until, like, a cute, you know, anecdote or whatever so that I wish I'd done sooner. I also wish I would have hired sooner. Like, I'm kind of, like, a really cheap person. And like, oh, sure, how much money can I, like, personally make from this? Like, it was. That was what was kind of a driving force. And so, like, I wish I just, you know, like, hired people sooner and kind of given away some of those tasks that honestly, like, just kind of led to some burnout through the years. And it wouldn't have happened as much if I had already had more of a team.

Yeah. Yeah. I have a friend in the Twin Cities here. His name is Ryan, and he had a IT outsourced IT company that he took over for his dad. They eventually sold, and there's this whole story around it. He now has a podcast called Intentional Growth. Before that, it was called Life After Business, but he interviewed people who had gone through the process of exiting a business kind of in a similar way that he did. But one of the things that he talks a lot about, not even necessarily relating to exiting a business, but he talks about switching the mindset from income growth to value growth. And I think it's one of the things that, as solopreneurs, we don't think about that a lot because it's not something that is, in our industry, talked about a lot. Like, it's not just how much income can the thing you're working on create for you. It's like, how valuable of a thing can you create as the game? Not even with, you know, everything that we do. We're not building with an exit in mind, but we are building with value in mind. And it sounds like you've taken kind of a similar approach where you've said, hey, what would it look like to not make as much, but create something that is more valuable because it's more sustainable? I can work on it longer. I can have a better relationship with it. The things that people are working on are creating value. So if you were to do that sooner, how much sooner? And what are those positions that you would have hired sooner?

Honestly, I probably would have done it the second year I was blogging and probably would have just gotten, like, the virtual assistant. Just help out with all the different online tasks, creating pins, sharing on social media, like editing images, just all the tiny little details that go into it that end up taking up so, so much time.

Yeah.

And something that actually really helped me shift my mindset. I don't know if you've read it. It's called the E. Myth Revisited.

Totally. Yep. It's great.

That was like a big, like, wake up call for me. I think my husband suggested it and it was just like a really good, like, really, you have to spend money to make money and what you're saying, like, you have to, like, invest to create, like, that value in the company. And I just wish I had, like, understood that sooner.

Can you talk about that book and specifically what you took away from it and maybe talk a little bit about the. If you remember the, like, the store owner that they use as the example. Yes.

Yeah. It's been a couple years. It's a really great book, though. I'd recommend it to anyone blogging or any otherwise. Oh, good. But I think it was a pie owner. Pie shop owner and. Right. She was, um.

Yeah, I read it, like, years and years and years ago, but as I remember. That's right. Yeah.

Um, she was just trying to do everything and eventually you just burn out. Like, you can have such a great work ethic and have everything in place, but you just. At the end of the day, you cannot keep doing it and scaling it. I think that's, you know, a big part of it is if you want to scale, if you want to grow the business, if you want to change it into a, you know, adding value to the world and to other people's lives, like, you just. You do need help. And so it's. The whole book is shifting your mindset from this is my business and I have to do everything to how can I grow an actual company. And that was like my biggest mind shift was I'm such a control freak and like I know it works, but it's not like it's not like it can't be reproduced. Like it's not like it's only me that can blog on Chelsea's messy apron. It's not like I'm the only one with these talents and these skills. Skills like there are people that can help it grow and can help it grow better than me because they have better skillsets, they have better talents and put that together and you've got, you know, such a better company and so much more value. And I would say every single one of my employees is better than me at that task that they're doing. And it's just like, it's wonderful because I feel like I just grow and learn so much from them and we're all working together to create something better for users. And I think biggest takeaway from that book is it's like you're going to burn out. You're not going to be able to scale, you're not going to be able to do what you want with this business if you insist on doing it by yourself.

Yeah, you had, you had mentioned that a couple of periods where maybe you kind of brushed shoulders with burnout. What, what did that look like and how did you come out of that?

Oh, again, just kind of like I'm a really stubborn person and I don't think burnouts like lasted long. It's probably you know, like a month at a time where I'm just not working to full. It's not like my heart's not in it. And I think trips like help a whole lot. Like just going on a vacation, which is hard now but like even just like a weekend away camping is like a huge like fills my bucket. Just spending time with the people that I love, like my kids, my husband. Like they just like fill my bucket, you know, and I think just taking a step away and another huge thing I would say are just my friends that are in the blogging community. I have like a tight knit group of bloggers, like all food bloggers and they are just like, just means so much to me. Like they're just so refreshing to talk to them and understand they're going through the same things that they're struggling with. The same things people are sending them mean messages as well. Like it's just like having this group of close knit friends that are just there for you. And so encouraging and helpful. And I have one friend that she's just. Will dig into any problem ever and just like, try and help solve it. And she's just such a, like, light in the blogging community. And I think that's a huge, like, surrounding yourself with people like that that just want to see you succeed and want to commiserate when you do. And it's just really. It's beautiful.

Yeah, I think. I think it's one. One of the hard things about what we do is that it's all online, and a lot of times we're doing it on our own or siloed and. And that can be so isolating, especially when you have something that is like a negative experience or you are having a hard time. And to have that group to reach out to is so helpful. Would you have any advice for people who want that and how do they go about creating something similar as kind of a support network or a group of people they can go to that get it?

Yeah, I think it's taken some years to, like, kind of find my people so cheesy, but, like, just finding people that are kind of in the same boat as you, people that want to have community and a friendship and a support group with you. I just think people that are, like, blogging maybe. I don't even think we're in the same, you know, like, niches. Like, we all do different kind of food on our blogs, but more just kind of like how long we've been blogging or we just have connected over different things. I think a huge helpful way to find these friends is to, like, go on blogging retreats. That's hard right now. I know, but that's kind of how I've, like, created my group through retreats or through conferences, through chatting online. Like, we have a Facebook chat kind of always going, and we're always sharing things or things we saw or things we learned. That's so helpful. Like, that is, you know, that's gold. Like, getting a piece of advice from, you know, another blogger similar to your size. It just kind of helps you grow along with them and grow with that. I don't know if I'm explaining this very well.

Yeah, no, that makes sense. I think it's. It's that. Right. Mix what, what. And I think a couple pieces to pull out from that that are. That are helpful. Like you. It's people who get what you're doing but aren't necessarily doing the exact same thing. And I think that's helpful to Have. So it's not like you're both publishing the exact same type of recipe on the same day, but it's people who still really get the nuances and intricacies of what you're doing. And I think the other piece that's helpful is I think in a group like that, it's helpful to have people who are maybe a little bit ahead of where you are and potentially people who are a little bit behind where you are in terms of the growth of the business, the site, whatever it is. So not only can you help, but there are people who can also help you. And, you know, there's lots of different categories where people could be in different places, whether that be, you know, on certain social platforms, traffic that they have skills and inability in managing a team or producing video, whatever it might be. So it's not just one category that people could be ahead or behind in, but it's helpful to have that good mix.

Yeah, you sum that up so much better. But sure.

Well, it's easy for me because I can sit back and listen. Yeah.

But even, like, in my group, like, I. There's one friend that she's doing a Food Network show. Like, she's so freaking awesome, and that's something I don't even, like, have on my radar. But it's so fun to see her, you know, grow and diversify her income that way and just, like, become this awesome Food Network star. But it's not even, like, really something I'm, like, wanting to do. So just different. Different fields, but same field, different things. They're doing, skills. It's so, like, helpful and enlightening. Like, you just learn so much from these people.

That's awesome. And I think that's helpful for people to think about what does that look like for them? Because that can be one of the most beneficial things that you can do is connect with a group like that, not only for support, but for advice, insight as you look to grow. So one of the questions that I love to ask for. People have been doing this for a while. So you. Last time we talked was, you know, three, four years ago. We used four as the marker, even though it wasn't quite four years ago. But if you look four years from now, 20, 24, what would you hope for for your business, for your site? Do you have an idea of what that could look like and what you're working towards, or is it kind of a question mark at this point?

It's kind of a question mark, to be honest. I think more than anything, like I just want to, as I think about the future of my website, like the constant is always. I want a really high quality, helpful website. Like, I want it bring people joy. I want it to be as like, concise and helpful as possible. I want people to enjoy the recipes, I want people to love it. So I think like, that's not really, you know, like a numbers goal or anything like that, but at the end of the day it's like a, I guess, you know, you mentioned like a value goal. Like I just want it to be a really well loved website that people use the recipes frequently, they're saving the recipes, they're enjoying the recipes and enjoying the content. And that's kind of like every day when I think like, you know, what am I doing? Like, it's, it's for the readers, it's for people that have supported me through these years. Like I truly have this love for them, even though I don't know them. And it's kind of, that's always my driving force and like where I want it. And I also think as I think about that, I just always feel like the money and the growth will follow. Like I think if the readers are first and my focus is always on like giving them the best possible content and just like realizing how great they are, that they're reading my website, that they're trying my recipes and just like how much I love them, like just keeping that in my forefront that I feel like this, the company will always grow and I feel like it'll always. Well that's kind of like my, my focus always.

That's awesome. And I think helpful to focus on that first because that is the engine that drives the site. It's the success of the stuff that you're creating, the content. And if you lose focus of that, you know, it might not happen right away. But you, the most important part, which is the success that people have with your content, recipes in your case, you know, that will be impacted and you'll see that. So what a great, great way to think about it. Like if you think out in the future, hey, would love to continue to have the ability to create content that is helpful to people. And that's kind of the heart of what you do and you do a great job with that. So Chelsea, for those who aren't familiar with, you know, obviously we've talked about your site where people can find it, but for those who want to follow along if they're not familiar, familiar with what you're up to yet, obviously after this podcast, I Know that people will be interested in learning more. Where can people connect with you? Maybe check out some of your recipes, a recipe that you would highlight that people should go and try if they haven't tried any of your recipes before, can you do a quick recap of where people can find you online?

I think that's the hardest question you've asked me. I can't pick one recipe. I love them all. I know that's, like, so dumb to say, but I. Gosh, I love. I love food. I love the recipes on my site. So my website's chelseysmessyapron.com and I think all my social channels are the same. I am like a huge vegetable lover, so probably like the most made recipe in my house. They're called sweet potato burrito bowls. Haven't made that. They're my favorite. So I think. Sorry, did you have another question in there that I didn't answer?

No. That's great. That's great. Highlighting the best recipe and then where people can find you. And we'll be sure to link to all of that in the show notes as well if people want to just click on a link to make it easy. So, Chelsea, so great to check in again. Really appreciate your insight, your advice. I know that you focus on helping people with recipes, but in this interview, I know that you'll help a lot of other business owners, bloggers, and creators along their journey. So really appreciate you coming on.

Oh, well, thank you so, so much for having me. Bjork, you're like the best. You make my words actually make sense. So thank you.

Well, thanks for coming on and sharing. Really appreciate it and looking forward to another podcast episode in the future.

Awesome. Will do. Okay, thank.

You.

And that's a wrap on this episode of the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. Thanks for tuning in today. We hope you enjoyed this conversation with Chelsea. I just think there were so many awesome takeaways. My favorite, like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, was that she just puts the creation of her content for her readers at the forefront of everything she does. And I think that was really prevalent in this whole episode. And I just think it's a great reminder, especially when it feels like, like you have to do all the things. You know, sometimes blogging is just one of those things where you just keep tacking on things to your to do list. Oh, I have to do this. So I have to make video. Oh, I have to share content to Facebook and Instagram and Pinterest. But, you know, the content is actually the product that you are producing, so your recipes are the product, and that's just a really important thing to remember. So I think this was a great episode, and if you have any takeaways or or feedback about this episode, we'd love to hear from you in the show notes in the comments section for the show notes of this episode@foodbloggerpro.com 264 and we'd just love to hear from you. So we hope you enjoyed this episode and we will see you next Tuesday. And until then, make it a great week.

Sa.