265: Adapting and Adjusting - Having a Gratitude Mindset with Beth Moncel

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Hello. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. I'm Alexa and we are so happy that you have decided to tune into the show today. Thank you so very much. So today we're actually revisiting an interview. It was our 11th interview ever on the Food Blogger Pro podcast with Beth from the very popular food blog Budget Bites. And if you've never spend any time on Budget Bites, Beth creates budget friendly recipes on her site. And it's just a very awesome resource. She has different meal plans, she has an app, she has a team working for her. She kind of does it all. And in this episode, she'll talk about that, but she'll also talk about some of the struggles that she's been facing recently with hiring, with SEO and more. It's just a really interesting and encouraging episode. Like, even these really giant bloggers who kind of look like they have it all figured out, still have things that they're working on and still have things that they're learning every single day. So I think that's really encouraging. We hope you find it encouraging as well. So without any further ado, Bjork, take it away.

Beth, welcome back to the podcast.

Hey, thanks for having me again.

Yeah, it's going to be fun to chat. We've been doing a few of these conversations where we revisit old friends before we press record here. I said it's kind of like I think of snapshots of time as I compare them against school. So like, high school for us was freshman, sophomore, junior, senior year. And I think about how much changes in a person's life when you go through high school. And I feel like a lot probably also changes in a person's life for their business. And so if you think back to 2015, September of 2015 was the last time that we chatted and you were to do kind of an overview, a recap of what life was like at that point. What would be the overview? What was going on there and what was your life like?

Well, so that was 2015. I had been blogging for six years at that point, and I had just gotten to the point where I was getting a lot of traffic, like Google was finally picking me up, SEO was doing good. And it was about a year after I had discovered Pinch of Yum and your income reports. And so I had finally at that point realized how to fully monetize my website. So everything was going great. But I was kind of at this like, what now? Phase of the blog. I'm like, do I just Keep doing the same thing forever. Now I've kind of got some, like, financial freedom that I could, you know, expand. What do I do? And I really didn't know what to do. And I was kind of just like at that point, it was just everything, it took everything I had to just kind of keep up with what was happening anyway. So I was kind of just kind of, you know, still figuring it out at that point. I mean, I guess to some degree I still am, but I think everybody.

Everybody can relate to that. And I think it is one of the realities of, of us committing to being creators and business owners in the world is kind of this need to in some ways consistently reinvent ourselves if we want to continue to evolve the work that we're doing or the growth for the business or the impact that we're making. And it sounds like for you, you're kind of in that phase, like you had reached a certain level and had achieved a certain level of success. And then you said, okay, now what does it look like to kind of reinvent myself again or not plateau and go to the next level? Is that a fair assessment of what you're saying?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's just especially true in our industry because like you said, you know, you compare to when you're in school and it seems like so much happens over three or year time period. And in blogging it's the same way because this industry changes so incredibly fast. It's like every single day there's something new to learn or some new platform where all of the eyes are going. So it's like you're constantly having to change and adapt. And so, yeah, a lot has happened in the past five years, for sure.

Yeah. When you, when you think of yourself as a creator, so obviously really good at what you do, and you kind of have this unique mix of, of art and science. And maybe as a quick interjection, can you explain a little bit about Budget Bites and kind of the theme behind it so people can understand what I'm referring to when I talk about that kind of mix between you as a creator, but also kind of enjoying the number side of things and science and everything that goes into recipes from that angle?

Yeah, absolutely. So I started Budget Bites just as like a financial experiment of my own. I was trying to reduce my food costs without really sacrificing the satisfaction or the health element of the food I was eating. And like you said, I'm really into science, I'm really into numbers, but I also really love art and Cooking has always been something I enjoy because it combines both of those things. So this project combined my love for art and creativity of cooking with science and numbers and data. So what I do on the website is I break down the cost of all the recipes and I show how much it cost me so people can kind of see how much different ingredients can really affect the overall cost of their recipe or the cost per serving. And then I also do like a step by step photos for all of the recipes to help people who have never cooked before so they can kind of get their feet wet without being too intimidated.

It's awesome. I feel like it ties into. And I'm scrolling through your website here and I see, like, slow cooker white bean soup, 56 cents per serving. And it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm never gonna eat out again. When you realize how affordable, how affordable good food can be, do you. This is maybe a little bit of a weird question, but are you familiar with the fire movement? Financial independence? Retire early? Like, oh, yeah, totally. Okay. Do you feel like, are there some, like, fire fire people? And to fill that out a little bit, these are people who are, like, very budget conscious and save money as strategically as possible so they can retire, like in their 30s or 40s, before you normally would. I feel like they would love a site like yours. Have you noticed any users who kind of fall into that category?

You know what, now that you mentioned it, I have not seen anyone mention fire in my comments or on social media at all, which does kind of surprised me because it's totally in line with what I'm doing. I mean, I like the idea of fire. There might be more comments on it on someplace like Reddit, which I don't really hang out there. So maybe people are talking about it there, but not on my website.

Yeah, yeah. So the. A site that I occasionally read, not a follower of, but it's a site called Mr. Money Mustache. And he's like one of the thought leaders in that category. And one of the things he often talks about is like, how you can make great food that's not expensive. And I feel like Budget Bites is the ultimate case study of that, where it's like, hey, you can have homemade baked chicken nuggets and it's 90 cents per serving. Like, that's incredible.

I actually, I do get some referral traffic from that website now that you mentioned.

Oh, do you?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Yep. So he has a forum, and I'm sure that people posting to that forum will refer to different recipes so that makes sense. So you kind of have this mix, the art and science. Do you feel like that also crosses over into the business category? Do you find yourself enjoying the pursuit and learning about these things that in some ways are a requirement? Or do you feel like it's a necessary evil, so to speak, quote unquote, in order for you to do the thing that you truly love?

I think that is probably one of the only things that has kept me doing this for almost 12 years now, is that I have to constantly learn something. Before in the blog, the longest I had ever had a job was like three years because I would get bored. So I would just constantly move on to something new because I'm like, I just have to keep learning. And having a blog does that, Like I said, every single day there's something brand new that you have to dive into, learn about. Even if you don't become an expert in it, you have to at least know the basics so that you can hire someone who's an expert in it. So I love that part of it.

And that's actually one of the things that we're going to touch on, or I'd be curious to know, is like, for you as a creator, but also as a business owner, once you did get to that point where you were doing this full time, you knew that you wanted to continue to grow it, you wanted to invest into it. And what did that look like for you to figure out how to not only sustainably create content, but but also sustainably carve out time to learn and to make sure that you're staying on top of trends and things that were changing. How do you balance that from a day to day perspective? Like, what does your schedule look like and what advice would you give to people who are also trying to figure that out?

Yeah, I think I'm still trying to figure that out. And I'm not sure if I'll ever really be on top of that aspect of it. I will say that learning to delegate and, you know, pass off some of those responsibilities to other people has definitely been the hardest thing for me in this business. And it's still something I struggle with, but it's absolutely important because you cannot do everything. You can't be an expert in everything. And if you're going to grow, you have to have people in place that know how to do things that you don't. So, yeah, that was probably the most important step. And it's something I'm still really kind of trying to figure out. But, you know, that's that's what business is. Every day is a different day, and you just figure it out as you go.

Yeah. So five years ago, we had a podcast interview, and we'll link to that in the show notes for people who want to check that out. At that point, did you have anybody that you'd consider, like, as a part of your team or that was working with you? Or at that point, was it really just you showing up every day, producing content, doing everything that went along with that?

I'm not sure the exact timeline, but I think at that point I had one person, my social media manager, who I still use today, and I just had her basically just scheduling out things because, you know, like Pinterest wants you to pin like 500 times a day, like inhumane number amounts of work for different social media platforms. So she schedules things out for me and stays on top of the best practices and the rules because just knowing that stuff is a job in its own. So she does all that for me. And then I still respond to comments and everything on most of the platforms because I feel like that's the only way I stay in touch with my audience to know what they need and want. And it helps me creatively too, because I get ideas from them. So I still do that part myself.

I'd be interested to hear you talk a little bit about the idea of delegating and building a team. And I think one of the things that happens on kind of the growth trajectory of publishers, especially publishers, who they themselves are the content creators. So it's not like a. A site that's spun up that has 10 contributors. This is like you producing content, building a business around that. Inevitably, what will happen if you have success, you get to this point where early on you'll have time to dedicate to what you're doing and you can work to build up the income. As the income builds up, the time and responsibilities don't go away. So then you have to be strategic about how do you get some of that time back by bringing other people in to help out. Have there been things that you have learned along the way in terms of what it looks like to delegate to bring in a team? I saw that on your about page. You have some people who are helping out. Operations manager, nutritional consultant. Can you talk about the journey in terms of bringing people in to work with you and to work on budget bites?

Yeah. First I'm gonna say it's scary. It really is. So if you are at that point where you need to hire people and it's Scary to you? Don't worry. It's scary to everybody because you're trusting your baby with somebody. You know, this is your project that you've built from the ground up and you have to put it in somebody else's hands and that can be terrifying. But if you find the right to.

Dive into that, what were you scared about? Because I can relate to that. And you say that, I'm like, oh, yeah, right there with you. What for you specifically, what were the elements that were scary about it?

It's just, you know, if someone does something wrong, it can break your entire website and that can make things crash. And as a website owner, you probably know there's nothing scarier than when your website crashes, which, you know, every website crashes at some point or like, you know, when you hire someone to help you out with comments or something, which is a huge time suck. And you know, anyone who's growing website will probably at some point have to delegate comments to a team member. It's scary having someone be the voice for you. Unless you know that person really well, you don't really know what they're going to say. And I'm sure that's the same thing with fiscal businesses. Like you have a customer service person in a store or a waitress in a restaurant and they're representing your company. So it's just scary knowing if the person you're hiring is going to be a good representative. Representative of you and your company.

Yeah. And what have you learned about that that has helped you to not be as scared to do that for that to happen, or like what, what has made that not as scary? The things that you've learned that have.

Made that not as scary, that when it works out, it's such a relief. So you just have to keep that in mind that it's going to be worth a little bit of work that it takes to train somebody because once it's off your plate, you have so much more time either to yourself if you need that work life balance, or to dedicate to another project.

Yeah. And so as it stands right now, what are some of the roles that you have on the team that people have taken on and are helping out with?

Sure. So I still have that same social media manager and she schedules everything out for me, lets me know about trends and best practices, all of that. And then my operations manager, Kelly, she helps me with all sorts of customer service things. She helps me answer the comments on the blog, which was just a huge job because we get a lot of traffic, so we get a Lot of comments. And then she helps me out with a private Facebook group that we have for our meal plan customers. And then just everything in between. Basically anything that I don't have time for I can hand off to her as a task. And she's really familiar with my content which is so invaluable. And then I did that. We are using part time to help us calculate nutrition data for the website and then she's also going to help us create some dietary specific meal plans in the future. And then I have a marketing director, she's not on that about page, but she has helped me launch the e commerce site for our meal plans and helped me get our email marketing situated and optimized and just everything marketing related. She's amazing. So she really helped grow the business.

What was that like to find people to come in and be a part of your team? I think it's one thing like this hurdle of, you know, giving up some of the voice and giving up some of the ability to speak directly to your customers and only you being the person to do that. But then it's another thing to actually find people who you trust and know that understand what you're doing and how to speak to people and finding those people who are going to be a good fit. So how did you go about doing that?

Yeah, I just got really lucky. These people just kind of fell into my lap. And I think it's so important that you find people that you really click with on a personality level because if you don't have that, I think you're going to have a hard time communicating with them or just really working towards the same goals. So Kelly, just how did I find her? I think I had posted a question in a blogging Facebook group about has anyone ever hired operations manager, someone just a general manager for your blog? And I wasn't even really looking at that point. I was just kind of like inquiring to see if anyone had someone in that sort of position and how it worked out. And someone sent me a private message and said, hey, my friend Kelly used to manage this other really big blog and she's looking for work. And so I contacted her. We had like a Skype call or something as an interview and we clicked right away. So that was really great. Then my marketing director, I think I saw someone recommend her in a Facebook group for something else. I went to her website and I'm like, wow, she looks awesome. And again, we had a little zoom meeting or something and I'm like, yes, I want her to Work for me. She's amazing.

Yeah. That's awesome.

I just got really lucky both times.

That's great. Obviously, there's something to be said about not only connecting with great people, but I'm assuming another part of it is just being a great business and person to work with and to work for, which goes into it. So. Yeah, you talked about a few different things. You talked about kind of this idea of a marketing role and then also mentioned meal plans. I know you've also, since we've last talked, have launched an app. What does it look like from a business perspective as you've started to think about diversifying the different revenue sources for budget bites? And have you learned anything in that process and along the way?

Yeah, I actually had to learn that lesson the hard way about diversifying. So I had been using ads as my sole source of revenue for the life of my blog up to the point where we had our last podcast interview. And it was just like a steady upward track. From the time I started my blog, Google was just loving me, loving me, loving me, loving me. I'm like, great. This is fantastic. I don't have anything to worry about. And then 2018 came along, and I got hit with two Google algorithm updates really hard. So after the two updates, I had lost two thirds of my organic traffic, and it was devastating. So that dropped my. Yeah, it dropped my revenue by at least half. And so I'm like, okay, well, now I have to take this seriously. You know, I have to look for other ways to make sure my income is diversified. So I started thinking about other things and, you know, really went from there. I started exploring doing sponsored content a little more, because that's not something I had ever really done. But, you know, we're still trying to find the best paths for this business in our audience in particular, because I think every audience is different. So you really kind of have to feel it out and see what's going to work best for your business.

Yeah, take me back to the Google algorithm update. There's a. Another. One of the super early conversations that I had was with Elise from Simply Recipes, and she talked about going through that process and just what a bummer it is. You do all of this work at that point. For you, it's nine years of content creation. You're doing everything right, and then there's this algorithm change. It's like a. It's. It's. It's like a, you know, a flip. A switch is flipped and. And it impacts things so directly. How did you get through that we'll talk about the business side. But how did you get through it from the like, psychological, mental, emotional side?

Yeah, it was definitely a ride, let me tell you. But I think the only thing that got me through was having a gratitude mindset. So every day I'm feeling despair and frustration. But I had to remember that what I was doing is actually helping people. I get the most amazing thank you emails and messages every single day. And just the fact that I get to do something for a living that is impacting people so directly in a positive way is so much more than I could have ever expected my life to be. And that alone is just amazing. So I can't be upset because of that. And then Even with a 50% drop in revenue, I was still comfortable. So I'm like, okay, this is fine. I'm thankful for what I have, whether it's this amount or that amount. And that's the only thing that got me through. But it's frustrating because you don't know what's wrong. Google doesn't tell you. And that was the hardest part for me emotionally was just not knowing.

It's like, tell me and then I'll fix it.

Right?

This can be really easy, but that doesn't happen. And a lot of times what will happen with those updates and what's so scary is like, there'll be an update and it's meant to fix like a general issue that is happening, but then it will catch some of these other sites because it's an algorithm. It's not necessarily people that aren't necessarily supposed to be included in that. And you see that happening in, you know, countless different examples. So then from a business perspective, obviously it's like, like you said, it's not like suddenly you can't make payments or something because you have this successful site and you know, there's, I'm assuming, millions of page views that you're getting on a monthly basis. So it's like, it's like at that point it's a question not of like, it's, it's, it's how many millions versus of page views versus like, versus like, am I going to be able to make payroll? But still a bummer to process through. So then you have to rise up. You have this gratitude mindset. You're like, you know what? I still have this successful business. I still have millions of people who are coming and consuming this content and it's making an impact. And also I want to be strategic and I want to continue to play the game as A business owner. And I want to start adding in layering in some of these diversification methods to think more strategically, not just about it being ad revenue, which is so directly correlated to traffic, and also probably in terms of the amount that you're able to get per visit. One of the lower, on the lower end of the spectrum to start to think more strategically and say, okay, what would it look like to introduce some other revenue producing streams from the blog like meal plans or an app? How did you know what to focus on? And if you were to go back and do it again, what are the things that you might do differently?

Well, the first thing I had to do was admit to myself that I had to pay attention to SEO because until 2018 I had always just been reader first. I'm going to do what the readers are telling me they want. I'm not doing what Google tells me they want. It's what the readers are telling me they want. And up until that point it had worked great. And then Google's like, no, we don't like that. And so then I had to start considering Google in how I do things with the business.

And was there something you were able to pinpoint coming out of that that you did change?

Yeah, we haven't recovered fully and actually have another audit starting this week with Marie Haynes. I'm excited about working with them. But anyway, we haven't really fully recovered, maybe only like a third of the way. But one thing thing that I did do that I think had a huge impact was just before, I think the second update that hit, I had changed my about page to be more of like a landing sales page type thing to get subscribers because I was doing a blogging mastermind course and they kind of suggested this different format. So it wasn't really information about me anymore. It was more just about the website in general. And this is what you can get out of it. And after that second update, I realized that probably totally squashed my eat. So I changed it back to an about page about me with my credentials and my media mentions and things like that. I think that's where we saw some of the recovery.

Can you talk about that? For those who aren't familiar with that idea of EAT and why it's important for you as the main voice and creator behind Budget Bytes to have I look at your featured in section. It's like, oh, all of these different business or publications you've been featured in and where you've contributed. What is eat? And then why did you make that change on your about page.

Sure. I'm going to. Hopefully I can remember what EAT stands for. It's expertise. A is. What is A? Do you know what A is?

I'm looking it up right now. Okay, good.

And T is trustworthiness.

Authority. Authority.

Okay, so expertise, authority and trustworthy. That's the table, correct?

Yep. Trustworthiness, Correct.

Yeah. So basically you just need to have your website communicate to the reader that you're somebody that is giving information that can be trusted. Like you're an expert in this field, which I hope I am, that you have authority. And it's really most important for websites that fall into the your money, you life categories which are going to be things that deal with your health or your money. And I think I kind of got lumped into that category because I have so much about costs on my page.

Yeah.

So that's my suspicion. And so I just really needed to communicate like here, this is what I'm doing. I've been doing it forever. You know, this is why I calculate my costs this way. And you know, all these people look to me as an expert in the field. So that's what I was trying to do with the about page.

Yep. So the idea being one of the ways that Google is analyzing whether they should show you high in search results or not is if you have a certain level of expertise, that's a certain level of authority and a certain level of trustworthiness. And one of the ideas behind that is on your about page, that's one of the best ways to validate your level of expertise, your level of authority and the fact that you are a trustworthy source. And so the updates that you made, when I look here, guessing, kind of the quick info snapshot, who I am, what I'm about, here's my education, here's my story of when I started the site. Here's all the different places I've been published. Money magazine, financial diet, podcast, you know, the kitchen feed feed, all of these different examples where you've contributed. And so essentially it's a recap of saying like, here's why I'm an expert and I have authority and you can trust me. The other interesting thing that you pointed out that's worth mentioning is this category of your money or your life. And that being a category where it's like Google wants to make sure that a post that they show high for, like an easy example is a medical related issue is from a publication or an author who has high expertise, authority or trustworthiness. So somebody isn't just publishing Something so they can show up high in Google, but somebody who actually has that expertise. And that's, that's the interesting thing with, you know, looking at your story. It's like, well, obviously you have that. You've been doing this for 10 years. You know, multiple thousands of hours of time spent into that. But this one change potentially could have been something that played into that. So as you're, as you're starting to recover from some of the traffic, one of the things you're learning is like, hey, I'm going to treat SEO differently and I'm going to be more intentional about this. I'm going to continue to learn about it. Is there anything else that you took away from that, just from a search and traffic perspective that was important or worth mentioning?

No, I think the SEO thing was just so big, I had to learn how to do keyword research. I had never done that a single time in my life. Suddenly I'm like, oh, I guess it is important what I title my recipes, things like. So it's been a long learning process and I still have a lot to learn, but I realize now it's important and I can't just ignore Google, especially.

Since my also is when you talk about switching jobs, it is a new job. And it's like suddenly within the same business, you have a new job. And for somebody who has a personality like yours that appreciates that it allows you to essentially have a new job every couple years.

Yeah.

So as you're thinking about not only recovering the traffic, thinking about being strategic, about looking, analyzing other places to focus on for revenue opportunities, how did you decide, like, hey, I want to do experiment with an app or meal plans, or were there other things that you looked at and decided, maybe I'll pass on that?

Yeah. So most of it is really based on the feedback I get from my readers. So, I mean, people have been asking for an app forever. I'm not sure why it's free on the Internet, but people like the app format, I guess. So when that opportunity came along, I decided to jump on it and just test it out. And then the same thing with the meal plans. People have been asking me for meal plans for years, so I had to start listening to my audience a little bit more and not just doing what I enjoy doing, but I needed to give them the content that they need. So I had thousands, not thousands, like over a thousand recipes on the website. But I realized I needed to start putting these recipes together in a way that made them usable to people. So that's how we came up with the meal plans, and we're going to be doing some other things hopefully soon that will just make it easier for people to make use of the content, basically, because, I mean, no one wants to sit on the Internet for an hour every night searching for recipes to make. You know, they're all out there, but it's like information overwhelm. So we have to start organizing and condensing information into more digestible chunks for people.

Yeah, it really is. I think that point is an important takeaway just with content in general, but also with things that people would purchase, whether that be a meal plan or something else. Where I think sometimes we think what our job is, and this is speaking specifically to people who have a food blog or recipe site of some sorts, is like, I just pump out content. Like, that's my job is to continually define new or trending recipes and publish those. But one of the things I'm continually learning and realizing is that our job is also to organize that in a way that makes it as easy as possible to either discover or as in a way that solves a certain problem that people might have. And I feel like meal plans does a good, good job of that. Where somebody might have, let's say, a specific diet that they follow, or maybe it's in your case, like a certain budget that they're trying to. To follow, and they would be willing to pay for you to do the work of doing that for them. So then they don't have to go through the process of, like you said, spending three, four hours, but instead paying, you know, a certain amount to have somebody else who's already done that and to do that in a really effective way. What was that like for you to balance the free content that you published on your blog on a continual basis with the kind of new offerings that you had. Were you publishing less? Were you working more? What was that like?

I was definitely working more, which is probably not the right answer. But, you know, it was easy for the meal plans because we were actually using content that's already on the website. We're just offering it in a curated package, basically, and in a downloadable form so they didn't have to see ads to use it. And I think there's value in that alone. So all we really had to do was. Well, I had to. First I had to curate the meal plans, which was utilizing my expertise. Like, I didn't want to delegate that task to somebody on my team because I wanted to have my stamp, my personality on it, because I think that's what people are going to pay for. And then, you know, we had to build out the grocery list and there's a whole lot of proofreading and, you know, putting it into a PDF format and stuff. But since it's a project that we're doing on our own, and I'm not like answering to a publisher or something, I can take as much time as I need. So if I wanted to really hustle and just put my head down and work non stop till I got it done, I could do that or I could stretch it out if something like a pandemic happens, just for instance. Right?

Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the great benefits of the independence that comes with building your own thing, whether it's independently producing and publishing a cookbook or doing meal plans, or, you know, on a broader scale, like having a business that you bootstrap versus taking investment is you have that freedom and that flexibility to move forward at your own pace. But then also one of the things you lose is somebody setting a deadline and saying you need to deliver and ship this. So I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on how you, as a business owner in general, you could use maybe the meal plans as an example. How do you keep yourself accountable to continually showing up every day and doing what you do?

Yeah, I do have to set deadlines for myself. Otherwise I will just procrastinate and just do the stuff that I enjoy, which is recipe development and photography, and then just kind of like slack off on the other stuff. So I do have to set deadlines. And for the last round of meal plans that we launched, I not only set a deadline for myself, but I scheduled a vacation right afterwards.

Nice. Oh, that's an interesting little.

I couldn't push it off. Right. So it had to be done. It had to be launched by this date so that I could take a vacation afterwards. And I knew I was gonna need it because I was working extra hard while I was finishing up. So I thought that was a really helpful technique and I'll probably use that again in the future.

Oh, I love that. Did you. Had you thought of that on your own or do you heard somebody talk about that in terms of like a motivator?

Yeah, no, I thought of it on my own. Or it might have been. It might have been born out of the discussion between me and my therapist. We talk about work life balance a lot.

Yes. I feel like I talk about this with Lindsay, but I feel like those people who are like therapists as an example Counselors, people who are professionals in helping you understand yourself, I feel like, give you incredible tools like that, like tools in your tool belt to help you in a situation where you normally wouldn't have a tool. And one of the great benefits of having somebody weigh in and say, like, I understand what you're saying. Here's a tool that could potentially help you that feels like a really great tool that you're able to implement. So did it work? Were you able to hit the deadline?

Yeah, it did, and it got really close because, you know, I'm also depending on my team to hit deadlines for things like proofreading and stuff, because a lot of times I can't move on to my next step until they finish their steps. So it does take some organization. And we use Asana to keep on top of tasks. And I really think if you do have a team, even if it's just one other person, a tool like that is so invaluable.

Yeah. It was actually going to be one of the questions that I was going to ask you when we were chatting about team. I saw that you're not all local, so the team's not all in Nashville. What does that look like in terms of communication and broadly speaking, both for your team and you individually? Are there tools and software services that you use that make your work easier to do or that you really rely on and appreciate?

Yeah. So definitely Asana. I love that we can kind of like keep track of all of our conversations and anytime we share a link or something, I can always find it again. We tried using. What's the name of that one service where it's like chat rooms? Yeah. We tried using Slack and it just. I was not digging it. It wasn't working for my personality.

So what didn't you like about it?

I just. I guess I didn't like the user interface or how things were organized. So, like, the conversation is always there, but I didn't feel like I could find things as easily as I can in Asana.

It's like one giant stream of text versus blocks of text.

Yeah. Organized by task and project. So I need that higher organization. And then I recently started using airtable for my production schedule because for the first time in my life, I am, like, working ahead. So I have like a month of content, which is amazing. And it's so funny because I think I heard Lindsey say that just before the pandemic. That was the first time she had ever done that too, which is funny. I'm like, oh, now I don't Feel so bad for never having done that.

I think it's one of those things where you look at other people and assume like, oh, everybody has this like three month calendar of what they're doing and producing it two months ahead of time. Can you talk about what airtable is?

Yes. Okay. So I'm really loving it because I am a very visual person. So it's like a spreadsheet but more visual. So you can assign things colors and you can look at things in different views. So like for my production schedule, I can look at my recipes in a list view, I can look at them in a kanban view. I'm not sure if that's how you pronounce it. Where it's like stacks of cards kind of that go in different columns. I can look at it in calendar view and you can use all sorts of different types of fields like a checkbox, selecting an item from a list or a date. So it's just so flexible. I absolutely love it. And you can share that with your team so that everybody can see it.

Yeah, it's like a spreadsheet on steroids. Like you can just do so much and there's the. I haven't used it a lot but I know a lot of people who really like it. So do you have a goal for how far out you want to be scheduled?

So last year. Okay, full backstory. I have really bad seasonal affective disorder. For anybody that doesn't know what that is, it's like in the wintertime when it's really dark, my brain just shuts off. Like some people get really depressed, but I just get like where I zone out. I can't focus, I can't work or anything. So last year when I went through it yet again, I was like, you know what? Next year I'm taking the entire month of November and December off. I'm just going to do it. So I'm starting to work ahead now and I'm going to work ahead as much as I can until I get to the end of the year, which will probably take a few months to actually get that much content out. But then once I have it scheduled to the end of the year, I'm going to stop and then pick it back up in January.

Good for you for doing that. That's incredible. And I feel like extremely self aware to be able to say this is something that I know historically will have high probability of happening. And how do I set myself up for success it both within the business and then personally for that as well. Do you Find that. That. Does that correlate to weather and is it have to do with like. Because I think of that as like a very common. Like, in Minnesota especially, it's like in the dead of winter, you'll hear. Hear a lot of people process through that. Lindsay got one of those like, like artificial lights, not like photography artificial lights.

But like, Yeah, I got one too.

Just so dark all the time.

Right.

Does that correlate for you with weather and sun or. I'm curious to know what that just personally, if you're willing to talk about it, sure.

Yeah. No, I have no problem talking about it. For me, it's 100% the sun. Like, I feel like the sun is what energizes me and just gives me life. So in the winter, not only is it overcast all the time, but it gets dark at like 4pm and when it gets dark out, I'm like, okay, I'm ready to be in my pajamas. I'm going to bed.

So do you think, would you do, like, would you do a. Any type of trip at that time? Like, go somewhere else where there would be more sun? Lindsay. And the reason that I ask is because we've talked about, like, hey, what would it be like in January or February for us to be in like, Austin for a month just to escape the Minnesota cold? Is that something you think you would do?

Yeah, if Covid's gone by then I would totally do that. Yeah.

I forgot about the global pandemic.

I know. It's easy to forget about, isn't it? Especially when you're. Your life is already like social isolation.

Cool. So when you think about, we had a conversation five years ago and you had made this big transition, continuing to build on that, building a team. You're diversifying. You're also, I feel like along the way, not only thinking about how do I set. Set this business up for success, how do I set myself up for success? I feel like that last story you shared is a great example of that. This is kind of a big question, but when you think about, let's say we do another podcast episode in five years, do you have thoughts on where you are hoping to be and build things towards, or would it be helpful to bring that question back, like two years from now or one year from now, how far out can you see and what do you envision that being? I guess is maybe the question, you.

Know, the honest answer, I think would disappoint a lot of people, but it's. I hope to be retired by that point.

Yeah. You're fire. That's fire.

Yeah, it is. And yeah, even before that acronym came along, like, I knew I wanted to be retired. I just, you know, I want to have the freedom to live my life without being in front of an audience because I never, you know, I love what I do, but I never wanted to be. I never wanted to be a social media influencer or famous in any sort of way. It's just not my personality. I'm extremely private and introverted, so that part of the job really, really taxes me and I don't think it's good for my mental health. So I hope that at some point I can retire and just have my life back to myself.

Yeah, I think there's so many people who will hear that and be like, oh, my gosh, I get it.

I hope so.

And if not all of it, maybe just a sliver of it. And to understand, like, there is an inherent pressure and weight and difficulty that comes with doing what you do, you know, and it's even different than, you know, I do this podcast, but like Food Blogger Pro, and the things that I do is very different than what Lindsay does or what you do and, and the volume at which you are speaking to people. It's hard and especially for somebody, as you're saying, would trend towards being somebody who wouldn't naturally want to do that. But I feel like it's super interesting for me to explore that. Can you talk more about what that looks like? Do you imagine at some point taking budget bites and bringing in somebody who would manage it and you'd still own it, or do you imagine and building it into an asset that someday you'd be able to sell and to exit and then to live off of that money, or what does that look like? I'm curious to know.

Yeah, maybe a year ago I was just so exhausted from it all that I was just like, I'm just going to let this slide and shrink into oblivion because I just can't handle it anymore. I'm just overwhelmed. I'm going to just ride out on the residual income until it disappears. But. And I was like, wait a second. If I'm just gonna stop paying attention to this and stop putting effort in, I might as well hire somebody who will put effort into it. Right. And manage it. Kind of like you're saying. So my short term goal is to kind of move into a role that's like a newspaper or magazine editor where I have people doing the work, but I'm directing them. So I'm like the creative Director. It's still gonna have my voice, my stamp of approval, but they will be doing work for me so I can relax a little bit, and I don't have to deal with hundreds of thousands of personalities on a daily basis on social media. And then long term, I would like to sell a brand. Yeah.

And I think some of the things that you are doing right now set you up for that, like diversifying the income and building a team who understands that. That. One of my good friends here in the Twin Cities has a podcast that used to be called Life After Business. And he did the podcast for, like, five years, and he just rebranded it to call it the Intentional Growth Podcast. But he. It's one of the things that he. I would say, like, every third episode, he would talk about this idea of, like, entrepreneurial burnout and people who get to a point where they just are so burnt out that they. It was like, exactly what you had just said. And he said, it's so hard to hear because the business itself has this inherent value. And I think what you're doing is so smart because recognizing that, capturing that, building a little system around that at a point where you still do have some energy, some excitement, some interest in it, and knowing that that time might come. And so if there's a takeaway for people who are listening, even if you're in the middle of your journey and you're thinking, I can't ever imagine burning out or getting to the end or not enjoying what I'm doing, I think there is deep wisdom in building a system in a way that allows you to, whether it be involved, but in a sustainable way for a long period of time, or if the right opportunity comes, to have somebody that comes and says, hey, I would love to purchase this. This valuable thing that you've built, to have it be set up in a way that allows you to do that, which I think is so wise that you're. That you're thinking of doing that. So, Beth, let's ask this question as we're coming to the end. Let's say you. You go back, and instead of me interviewing you five years ago, September 2015, it's actually future you. Like, you get. Let's say we have a time machine. You get on that call, and you're like, hey, Bjork. And then instead of somebody saying, hey, hey, Beth, it's Bjork, it's actually you saying, hey, Beth, it's Beth from the future. We have five minutes. What advice do you give your past self from five years ago? In that little block of time.

Oh, man. But I don't have the wisdom that I'm going to have in the future.

Well, assuming you do, that's a very good question. So assuming you know what you know now, what advice would you give?

Oh, wait, what advice would I give my 5 years ago self now or. Oh, I'm so confused.

Sorry. It was a super weird way to set up that question. Most simply put, here's what I was asking. I was trying to. In my mind, I just loved the idea of you getting on a call and then it being you from the future on the other end, too. Here's essentially what I'm asking. What advice? Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give your past self?

Okay, okay. That's what I thought. All right. So pay less attention to what you want to do, Pay more attention to what your readers want, and be less fearful and take more risks, especially in the area of hiring people. I think that just really helped me back.

That's awesome. So essentially building a team and thinking about how to bring people around you sooner and not. Not waiting as long around that. And then what was the first part that you said? Oh, pay attention. What your readers want versus just what you want. Yeah, you had kind of touched on that earlier. Talking about being involved with the comments and interacting with people.

Yeah.

Can you share just briefly about what that looks like and how you integrate that into your content creation process? Like, how do you. How do you source that information from readers?

Yeah, well, I mean, you get so much feedback and comments, like things like what ingredients people are not enjoying or hard to find, so, you know, not to use those in future recipes. People constantly ask for substitution ideas. So you already, like. I already know at this point when I'm writing a recipe what substitutions people are going to ask for. So I can just include that in the content already. And then people like. I mean, it's kind of like a hive mind. People have the greatest ideas for ways to change recipes or ways to serve recipes that I would have never have thought of. So it's a great sort of just creative cauldron. You know, reading those comments.

That's awesome. That's great, Beth. It's been so great to connect. And we just have so much respect for what you've done through the years and continue to do. And it's really hard to show up every day. And you've done it for 11 years. And it's always fun for me to talk to people who have been blogging and creating content for longer than pinch of yum. And it feels like that like 2006. I just talked to my friend Bruno who has a site called Curbly. He started in 2006, but like a 2006-2010 range was like really, really early blogging.

Yeah, we're the OGs.

Yes. And I just have so much respect for people who have continued to do that for a long period of time and appreciate you sharing your wisdom and insight, both personally and the things you've learned both personally and within your. Within your business as well. So if people want to follow along, if they want to see what you're up to, follow you on social media, what's the best way for them to do that?

Instagram is probably the best. It's just budgetbytes. That's where I spend most of my time on social media. Although lately I'm trying to really limit that to once a day or just go to the blog and sign up for our newsletter. We send out a newsletter every week with the newest content and stuff that's trending, so that's a great way as well.

Awesome. That's so great. And if anybody is part of the fire movement trying to retire early, there's some great recipes that you can use that are healthy, tasty, and very affordable. You've done a great job building what you've built, Beth, and it's been fun for us to watch along the way. So thanks for coming on the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. And I really love watching what you guys have done over the years too. So it's good to talk to you.

And that's a wrap on this episode of the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. Thanks for tuning in today. If you have any thoughts or takeaways from this episode, we would love to hear them in the comment section of the show Notes of this episode. You can find them@foodbloggerpro.com 265 and we'd just love to hear from you. There were also a lot of resources mentioned in this episode, so if you want to find the full list of them, you can find them again on our show notes@foodbloggerpro.com 265We appreciate you being here so much. This podcast is constantly one of the biggest sources of joy for us here on the Food Blogger Pro team, and we're just so thrilled and honored that you decided to tune in today. So thank you so very much and we'll see you next time. Make it a great week.

Sam.