288: Email for Bloggers - Maximizing the Value of Your Email List with Allea Grummert

Foreign.

Hey there and welcome to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. My name is Alexa and we are so excited you decided to tune in today. Today's podcast episode is a good one and I know that for a fact because we've been working with our interviewee Ali for a couple of months now on Food Blogger Pro, Pinch of Yum and WP Tasty. She's been such a valuable resource and just a really great person work with and she has helped us refine and build and grow our email list and that's what she's here on the podcast to help you do as well. Today your email list is so important and in this episode, Allie will talk about why that is and then some strategies that you can use to welcome new subscribers to your email list as well as make sure that your email subscribers are getting the content they want and need from you. It's a really good one. We hope you enjoy it. So without any further ado, Bjork, take it away.

Ally, welcome back to the podcast.

Hello. Hi.

Good to have you here. I looked back the last time podcast episode published. I think it was November 2019. It was before the world kind of imploded on itself. Can you imagine? Remember then the simplicity of 2019 and how, how easy everything in the world was? Not true, but it felt like it when you look back. We're going to continue the conversation around email. We're going to continue the conversation around marketing and how we can be strategic around those things. For those who didn't catch that episode, be sure to go back and listen to that. But can you catch people up really quick? What's your story and how did you get into this world of talking about email and strategy around marketing and helping bloggers?

Yeah, so. Oh boy, is it a story. So I'm Ali Grimmert. I am an email marketing strategist and conversion copywriter and I specifically work with setting up welcome and nurture sequences so that your new subscribers have this like wonderful understanding of who you are and how you can help them. And so that's how I help my clients. And I got into email marketing as a blogger and as a, not as a food blogger, but as a money blogger. So you know, just blogging about budgeting on a Wednesday night.

Attendee.

Attendee. Yeah, ever since 2016, I've been a long term FINCON attendee. I was actually speaker this year too.

Oh, nice. Would you categorize the type of financial blogging that you're doing? Like we had an episode where we talked about fire.

Oh gosh, we're getting into it. I love it. I was definitely into the kind of the post college, how do I adjust with student loans and budgeting with a full time job kind of market so distinctly.

Remember the moment I walked through the like paperwork line of college and they handed me the paper of how many, how much student loan debt I had and I was like, all right, okay, here we go. I'm an adult. It was like this official transition into adulthood.

Yeah. So I paid off my car and my student loans. I just dedicated a couple years. I mean, I had been paying, I don't know, the minimums or whatever for a while, but then I kind of hit this stride of like, I'm gonna do it. And I went cash only for a while. I worked two job. I mean, I was spending $100 a month on food, which was terrible. Don't do that.

You were able to sustain yourself, but it wasn't enjoyable.

Yeah, I was not a very nice person either. Like, give me vegetables and I'll be a nicer person.

I paid off a lot of debt. It was like the literal Dave Ramsey always talks about rice and beans. It sounds like literal rice and beans of making it through, but.

Well. And it was winter in Nebraska. Like there were a lot of things going against me.

It was, you were really connecting with kind of the early settlers of Nebraska at that time. Cole. Yeah.

Little bit of scurvy, you know.

Exactly. So you go through this phase, you're doing the financial blogging thing, excited about that, making progress on that, see other people doing it at some point. It's like, hey, actually this email marketing copywriting thing is actually kind of interesting and go in that direction. How far, how far along were you into the blogging journey when that started to emerge as an interest?

So I did the blogging thing in addition to a full time job. And I actually have a degree in advertising and public relations. So I've just always been interested in marketing. I joke that my blog was my digital playground. Like I got to learn about Pinterest and SEO and images and Squarespace and the works. And so I was two months into self employment and I was like a general marketer, which is like the absolute worst. Everyone's like, can you help get me on Google Ads? Can you also do Instagram? And I was like, okay, so we.

Need to narrow down everything on the Internet.

Everything on the Internet is marketing. Can you do it? It's like, this is going to, this isn't going to work. So with email, with my blog, I had set up just a simple three email welcome sequence. And I kid you not, even after I'd been running automated for a year and a half, I was still getting people replying back to me. And so that always just stood out to me as a way to really build relationships. And people weren't just replying like, oh, thanks for the email. They're like, I am in trouble financially. I lost my job. Here are some goals. And so they were laying their hearts out. So for me, it was, it was more personal and yeah, a little bit. A lot more sustainable. I've never been one who really likes the fast paced social media side of things. It's like, was a Tweet lasts like 20 minutes. I'm like, oh, that's my intern days when I would spend hours writing 20 tweets, that they would disappear. Like, that's not really my cup of tea. So with email, it's more sustainable and you get to, you get to repurpose things and the information just doesn't expire. If it's still helpful, you can, you can reuse it too.

Yeah, it's, it's. I remember early on this was maybe similar to your financial site in that it was an endeavor that I did that was exciting that I'm no longer doing, but kind of led me to other things. I had a site called Certify Solo and it was all about getting like Apple certification for certain categories. Like Iwerks was an old suite of product and you could get like Apple certified and different categories. But I remember setting everything up and it was like studying for the test. So it was really clear like, here's this where you need to study, here's this. And eventually I put in a little first name, an email opt in. And it was like that day there started to be people signing up. And I remember this like it was so different than blog traffic. It was different than an Instagram follower. Cause it was like a really dedicated point of interest that somebody's saying like, I want to know more and learn more and connect. And it just felt like a stronger commitment. Like if it was a video game, it felt like it recharges your character at a higher level, more valuable. And I think that's what email is. But the interesting thing is for our space on a finance blog, the perception, and maybe it is also the reality is it almost seems like that's more valuable than in other spaces, like in the food space. I think there's still some questions around, like, what do I do when I get an email subscriber? Why is this valuable? And maybe it's as valuable as an Instagram follower, or maybe Instagram follower feels more valuable. How do we. How do we make sure that we are maximizing the value of somebody who signs up for our email list?

Yeah, I mean, I think I want to go back to that, too. I don't want to skip over it too fast that people are giving you. They're this really important source of contact. Like, this is the. That you're getting into a coveted space, the inbox. Like, it's really easy to ixnay. You know, people who are sending you emails, or you go to a conference and give your name to all of the booths and you're like, how did I get on 15? It's like, so it's this place where you can really. I choose to provide content that makes people say, oh, I'm glad I'm on this list. Right. So that's part of the overall branding and relationship, is not even that each email is transactional. It's not that every email needs to be selling something. It's not that you even have to have ads in your email. It's part of your overall brand of, like, how do I want to serve my readers, whether they. No matter where they came from on my site or whether they've purchased something from me or not. So just as a holistic view, that's what email can do. What was your original question, Bjork?

Oh, yeah, no, I think that's good. And I think it's a good reminder because I think sometimes we can feel like, hey, I've got email. What do I do with it now? And that was kind of the original question. But to your point, it's like, hey, one of the most important things that you can be doing is figuring out how you can use it as another communication channel to help people for the reason that they signed up. Like, if you signed up for a reason, how do we do a really good job of serving these people? Much like on Instagram, somebody signs up, they probably know what they're going to get because they look at your feed and they have an idea with email that doesn't really exist. So how do you do that?

Well, yeah, so I would actually say that food blogging and money blogging, pretty similar. I mean, in both cases, the problem is I need help with something, whether it's I need to know what to eat for dinner or I need to know how to detox, you know, you know, over after Christmas, whatever it might be. But the important thing is that you're providing solutions. And even with, like my personal finance blog, I didn't have affiliate links or anything. It's just, here's how to use mint.com or here's how to. Here's how I budget. And you're sharing your personal experiences. People find that really valuable because. Right. That's like why we watch documentaries or read biographies. It's like, how did they do it? How did Steve Jobs. You know, and so we like that inside scoop. But you're already creating this wonderful content on your site. What email does is it makes sure that your most interested parties know about it because they're not going, you know, it's not like, I don't know, maybe people still do this. Do you have a bunch of bookmarked blogs that you check out every week, all 10 of them, or can you get them in your inbox and say, oh, you know, Lindsay posted a new soup recipe. Thanks, Lindsay. Now I know I'm gonna make this weekend.

Yeah, it's interesting when you think of those, those touch points. And email really is a touch point where people aren't opting into it. Like, people will do an email opt in, but after that they're trusting you to deliver stuff in a way that is valuable and in a way that's helpful and in a consistency that's appropriate. If it's Instagram, every time that you're going into Instagram, you're kind of opting into it. You're like, I want to go into Instagram and look at this stuff. Email. It's like, I'm going to go into email and who knows what I'm going to be presented with? And so it's really important. What I hear you saying is that when you are presenting stuff that is valuable, that is helpful, and that it also surfaces the content that you're currently creating and making sure that people see that.

Absolutely.

Let's break down what that looks like in terms of the different ways that people can do it. You can send a blog post. You can have what's called a sequence autoresponder broadcast.

Yeah. This is where I hear people tuning out. They're like, oh, it's about to get technical. Like, hang with me, guys.

How would you categorize those. Those different areas?

Yeah. So kind of going back to what you just mentioned too, about the Instagram feed, and you know what you're signing up for. What I always recommend, like I mentioned what I had with my old personal finance blog is a welcome sequence. And this is an automated. Oh, gosh, it's called a million things, like an autoresponder or a drip campaign. But the idea is that no matter who comes to your list from whatever opt in, whether it's an ebook or a purchase or whatnot, they get this introduction to who you are and what to expect. And what it does is it's kind of like what in advertising we call wayfinding. Like, when you're in an airport and you're like, am I going the right way? Yes, I am. Like, the bathrooms are over there or my gate is over here. That's what the welcome sequence does. It reminds them, like, yes, I'm in the right place. This is, you know, this person will help me. And it's also pairing that with trusting you, who you are as a person, as a blog, or as a business to say, if this is what you're looking for, this is what I provide, and here's why you can trust me. I mean, you're not necessarily saying it in those words, but that's what a welcome sequence does when you say wayfinding.

Wayfinding is a word that I learned this year because we're remodeling the second floor of this building, and there is no wayfinding right now.

And it's annoying.

People come up and they literally are like, they. They step out of the elevator and they look to the left and look to the right, and a lot of times they'll come, like, knock on our door and they'll be like, where's the jeweler? Like, you know, there's. Yeah, people don't know where they're going. And I think a lot of times people set up email in a way that somebody will sign up, and it's. People don't know where they're going or if they're in the right spot. And in a building or in an email sign up. If you don't know if it's the right thing, chances are you're going to leave. Like, you're not going to stick around for a really long time. So how do you let people know that they're in the right place? And how do you let people know where to go as it relates to email?

Okay, so as far as making sure that people know that they're in the right place, a lot of it is just stating it. If this is what you're looking for, or if you're looking for this, this or this, you'll find that here, and I'm going to send that to you, set some expectations over. You'll get an email from me, every Tuesday and Thursday or on Sundays, you'll get a roundup. So part of it is just telling them what's coming. And this is where I know I talked about this in the, the membership Q and A. I don't know if.

Everyone'S watched that, but yeah, membership Q and A. So for those who don't know, there's a Food Blogger Pro, members have the opportunity to talk to experts, of which you are one. You're the email expert on FoodBlocker Pro, weighing in on the forums, live Q and A's. We do the podcast. Everybody can view these, but then we have member only areas. So just jumping in to explain that. So before that you were talking about. We were talking about wayfinding. We were talking about finding your way. We were talking about the welcome sequence. We were explaining kind of like how, how you do that. When somebody signs up, you can state it. I think that's important from a copywriting perspective. But then there's also these things that you can do. We've just started to work with you to help to do this for Pinch of Yam, which is like people, it's like, it's kind of like wayfinding, where you imagine you get out of the elevator and it says like, here's, you know, this direction is bathrooms. This direction is, you know, Edward Jones. And this direction is like the playground. There's not a playground here, but it'd be awesome if there was. And you can kind of do that in email as well, where you can present people with things and then they can make a decision on where they want to go. Yes. How do you do that? So you state it. Here's who we are, here's what we're about. You send an email. That's communication at its most core. But then there's also. It's kind of technical, but there's a little bit of strategy around giving people the option of kind of choose your own adventure.

Yes.

Is that something everybody should be doing? And at a high level, how do you do that?

Yeah. So it's something that you can grow into. You don't have to do it right away. I would rather have you have a one email welcome sequence as a baseline and then grow from there. But what we're talking about is segmentation. So from a high level, how would you separate your audience into different segments, different groups, if you will. So with Pinch of Yum, it was. We learned a lot through research. We have a lot of new, New home chefs.

They don't.

They don't know how to get away in the kitchen. And that's not something that we want them to feel ashamed about. We want to. To support them in that. And so they get. When they say, yep, I'm new to cooking, they get a 5 email sequence that's different than if people say, nope, I've been around a while. Just hit me with that. You know, your top recipes. And so what we're able to do with that segmentation is really nurture those new home chefs, new home cooks with. With the tools, literally the tools that they need. With Pinch of Yum, it's like, here are the five things you need in your kitchen if you're going to get the most out of Pinch of Yum recipes.

Yeah. And so somebody signs up, they get an email that says, hey, super excited. Here's what we're all about. You're in the right place. If kind of that general sense of a touch point and then saying, hey, who are you? Where do you fit in here? Because if it's somebody who has been cooking and has opinions on the best spatula and they've been doing it for 20 years, chances are they're not going to find it super valuable if we, you know, say, hey, here's a really good spatula, or here's the blender you should use, because they probably already have it. Whereas for somebody who's just starting out, you know, I think of our friend Joe, Our Christmas gift to him was a blender, like, hey, Joe, like, you gotta make some healthy smoothies in the morning. Here's a blender where you can, you know, use that. And so he would be somebody who'd come in and be like, hey, I'm new. I want to learn a little bit more. And so you're kind of segmenting through that. You do that in the welcome sequence. Everybody who signs up is going to at some point see that and opt into that. Anything else that would be important to point out as it relates to a welcome sequence in terms of what the intent of it is and how you should go about approaching it.

So, yeah, I mean, the intent of it is to welcome somebody kind of. I think I've heard it explained. It's kind of like your best of what is it that people really need to know? And what's really cool about writing out a welcome sequence, and I do this for clients all the time, is it really makes you figure out what's most important to share. You might have blog posts that you love, but they're not really what people are coming to your site for, so you can introduce that to them later in a nurture sequence. But in the welcome sequence, it's saying, you know, there's. And this is less segmentation and more just like, let me introduce you, let me show you what I got. I got a podcast over here, I've got the blog over here. I do an ask me anything on Instagram every Wednesday. So click here. So it's just. And it's less about, you know, quote unquote conversions. I mean, you're ultimately building a relationship with someone to let them know this is what's available. Take your pick. When you're doing sales emails, you're like, I just want them to go to this product or this whatnot. But in the welcome sequence, it's like, hit me with everything. Hit me with what you got. I mean, organize it in a way that doesn't overwhelm them. So with the welcome sequence, it can be the reason why it's called a sequence is it can be more than one email. So you could have the first email that's like, are you really annoyed with not being able to find gluten free recipes? That's. I was too. And so I created a blog and these are my top favorites. Tomorrow I'll send you a few more resources and then, you know, maybe emails three and four are your segmentation emails. Like, how can I be most helpful to you? Yeah, you know, you can have them reply back. You can have them click and then that click the technical side of it with that segmentation adds a tag and then sends them into a related sequence.

Yeah. So point being to talk through that, they get an email and literally the software will track if they click on that, then it registers, hey, this person clicked on that, put them in this bucket. And this is beginner bucket. Anybody that goes in the beginner bucket gets beginner bucket people emails. Yes, they go through those emails. Would you recommend in a welcome sequence that you don't send anything else to them? Like, do you say, hey, when it's welcome sequence, just make sure that's all that they're getting. Don't send them. Like, if you have a new blog post, make sure you're not sending that to welcome sequence people. Or is it not as big of a deal?

Here's a hot tip. Ooh, this is fun. So basically, if you can create a segment in your email sequence. So like in ConvertKit you can create a segment that is everyone who is not currently in any of these sequences.

Got it.

And so when you are sending out Your live broadcasts or weekly emails or your new blog posts. Just send it to that segment so you don't have to wonder, who do I need to exclude? Like, it's already there. It's like your bundle of people. And so you can also, you know, have a tag that gets added at the beginning that says like, new subscriber. And then once it's completed, that tag goes away. So then in that segment for your new content, could just exclude anyone with the new subscriber tag.

Subscriber tag. That makes sense.

But what you're doing, right? Like, you know what it's like when you get like 16 emails from a company in one week and you're like, I'm sorry, did you know I was new here? Because I'm feeling overwhelmed and not welcomed at all.

It's like you're the only person walking into what is the store. The buckle. Yeah. Yeah.

Is that a super Midwest thing or anyone else?

Where I was going with that. The buckle challenge, it's from Nebraska. Is it really?

Yeah.

That's awesome.

The buckle challenge, for anyone who doesn't know.

Yeah, you go, go ahead.

Is it's a boutique chain. Well, yeah, in the Midwest at least. And the salespeople are so commission driven that, like, the joke is they the. Well, the challenges. If you can go and touch the back wall of the buckle and make it out to the front probably without anyone talking to you, then you, like, win. But it's like impossible because the salespeople are.

Yeah.

Persistent.

That's so awesome that you knew what I was talking about there before I said it. So that makes a lot of sense. One of the things that I think is valuable, we had kind of been talking about a little bit before, earlier on, before we press record, is this idea of bloggers, content creators, bloggers specifically, really have a mindset around, hey, my content schedule is every three weeks or every week I produce three pieces of content or two or one or whatever it is. I publish to Instagram twice a week. But email can kind of be this black box where the only thing that really is represented by email is like metrics. Like, we're not logging into it in the same way that we would Instagram. So there's not a draw. We're not looking at pictures of new content that we're creating. So I feel like one of the most powerful tools being email can often get neglected just due to the fact that we're not presented with that as a platform over and over and over again. I think if we were, we would be creating more within it. But do you recommend that creators create a rhythm around how much they're interacting with email? And even like, hey, if you have a welcome sequence, or probably wouldn't be a welcome sequence, it'd be like another sequence. Should you just always be kind of adding and expanding a sequence? You do have a sequence that lasts, you know, three years and every week you just keep adding an email to it, or is there a diminishing return on that?

Well, there are about five questions there I want to answer, so I feel like I need to keep notes so I don't forget any of them. But so the thing with Instagram, it's so interesting because I think people have more of a fear of sending emails, right? They think that they're going to be a bother. And so it's so funny because you can post like 16 times on Instagram in a week and you're like, I'm not bothering anyone. But then you send an email and you're like, oh my gosh, they're all gonna unsubscribe and they're gonna hate me. And it's like, what if the content that you're sending them solves a problem? And honestly, this is probably why I love email. It's because it's not knocking at your door being like, you haven't sent an email lately, like, everyone's gonna unfollow you. Like to be separated from those metrics, I think is really helpful. And as much as I love metrics and I love data, part of it is the same consistency you put towards your blog content, put that towards your email. So it doesn't have to be this like, you know, grueling pace of like scheduling stuff out on Instagram or whatnot, but allowing yourself to share the content that you've created. So you're getting direct traffic back to your site, which is great for SEO and all those other reasons, but it's maintaining top of mind, which I think we forget about. That's also an advertising word I learned in college. You know a phrase. So instead of just holding back and only showing up in someone's email once a month with this, like maybe hyper curated newsletter, it doesn't have to be like that. You know, it could be sending out an RSS feed for a while. Just knowing that your information, like, I've published it in a good. I published it on Thursday and it went out on Tuesday to my list. Like, part of it is closing the loop in your mind that's like, oh, I have this content. But I want to make sure I'm sharing it the best way. Well, here's one way you can at least be sharing it versus not sharing it at all.

Yeah. So we have the welcome sequence. One of the other sequences that you've talked about is kind of this. And I think it's really smart and something that we don't really think about because we're so often focused on new content. Making sure that people see your best content, like making sure that that's a part of it. Would that be another type of sequence that you'd be creating? So it's kind of like, hey, welcome, here's what we're all about. Tell us a little bit about yourself. And then are you creating a new sequence that's kind of like. And now I want to make sure that you see stuff that's really awesome that people really like, that's going to help you. Does that come off of the welcome sequence? So like welcome sequence segment, another sequence related to that segment.

So basically, so for instance, with the pinch of yarn, we have the welcome sequence and then we have the beginners and then we have like your general welcome, like nurture content. So sharing the best instant pot recipes or whatnot. And when those are completed, then you'll start getting live content from Lindsey and the team. But then you can also start getting kind of. If we wanted to build it out, this ongoing list of additional content. Right. We have to remember that this is for your new subscribers. They don't know everything that's on your site just because, you know, you sent it out six months ago or a year ago, they've never seen it. And how helpful would it be for them to know it's there? So we've kind of got two different things. Jerk. So like we, you can curate that from the get go and say, these are my top 15 posts. That's what's going to be in that ongoing nurture sequence. Or as you're creating content like you mentioned just before, tag that into, just copy that over into a nurture sequence. So even if it's not your best of content, which is where I'm at, all of my nurture content, the automated stuff that goes out on Tuesdays, is the stuff that I first started writing when I first started creating my email list. And I will tell you, it's not phenomenal. Sure, I've become a better writer and I'm like a little embarrassed, but like, is it still helpful for someone? Yes. Doesn't mean I'm showing up top of mind and in Their inbox. Yes. And it's helping me to build that relationship. So you kind of have two different ways to go about it. It just depends on a. How long maybe you've been around that you can actually say, these are my top 15 to 20 posts.

Sure.

But also, like, save yourself some time and energy and just repurpose the content that you've been sending out.

Yeah. I think of music as an analogy in terms of an industry. I think obviously the production of songs is at a smaller scale than the production of blog content or recipes. But you think of when somebody has an album, it's like 11 songs. There's maybe one that's a hit that really gets all the attention. And it's on the radio, it's on Spotify, they're playing it on Jimmy Fallon. You know, there's clips of it that show up on TikTok. Like, it's kind of everywhere. And I think there's. Then when you sit down and you think, what am I going to listen to? It's like, maybe evermore. Like, I've just seen that everywhere and people have been talking about it. Is that Taylor Swift's latest album?

Absolutely. Taylor Swift, yeah.

And it's because it's top of mind. I think advertising at its core is being top of mind. So when there is that trigger point of like, what should I make tonight? Well. Oh, yeah, that email from Pinch of Yum. Maybe I should go and check Pinch of Yum to see if there's something there. So it's not even just like a click. It's not just an open. It's also a touch point of getting your brand in the inbox and reminding people that you're there and that you're helpful, which I think is great. You had mentioned RSS throwback, right? Yeah.

1995 for a long time. Something like that.

When they started, Yum was just. We would send out an RSS email when. When a blog post would go out, we'd send it. Send a RSS email out for it. What? You know, that's kind of like entry level, just getting into it.

Minimum viable situation.

There's very, very basic.

But it's happening versus nothing at all.

Yes, yes. When you work with creators, when you work with bloggers, what do you see a lot of times coming in? Like, what's the lay of the land coming in? Like, if you were like a home organizer, you come in, you're like, all right, great, I see this, and there's a lot of room for improvement. Do you have kind of a before and after. If you were to boil down like the most common scenario you see average scenario you see coming in and then immediately the areas of opportunity that you see for enhancing or improving or optimizing.

And I'm going to sound like a broken record, but most of the client work that I see that comes so I have an audit. So I literally like go in and just look at everything. Is that they don't have any automated sequences set up. In most cases they're like, I know I should and I. But I've been blogging for 5, 10 years and I just never did.

Or.

Or they have something that's really outdated and doesn't really represent who they are and who they're serving and the kind of content they're creating anymore. So it's really like a blank slate. It's like I just email my list whenever I feel like it. Um, so there's that. So there's not really any structure for your new subscriber. They just start getting your information from the get go. Another. And I think, I don't know why, I just like kind of skip right over this. But it's a simple solution too, is kind of giving each day a purpose. So like if Tuesdays is like a letter from the editor or. And then Fridays are the days that all of that old content that's automated just goes out on Fridays. So get it in your mind too that like you're creating a schedule that you get to stick to and no one else is. Like, first of all, no one probably cares exactly what day things go out. But that also helps you clearly communicate to your readers in a welcome sequence on Fridays you're going to be getting some of like I'm going to pull something from the archives, something that you might think is helpful. Um, and so that's part of it too is just setting up in your mind. And so when you're setting up your sequences to say, just deciding like, Mondays is older content, Wednesdays is brand new content, Friday is a roundup.

Yeah.

And I think that, that, that. I don't know, having something like that in your brain just makes it easier to comprehend what's happening otherwise. I think a lot of times with email we don't see it, you know, played out on a calendar like you would with Instagram planning or something.

Yeah, yeah. There's. It gives it some type of structure that you can build against, which I think is really helpful. One of the things that I love about some of the things that you're talking about is I've been trying to think a lot about how do we introduce little multipliers. So like we have this thing we all own. What is this asset? It's content, it's traffic, it's a social following. And we're feeding that right. So we're putting content in and we have a system around that. What is something that we can introduce that like we work really hard to do at one time. It's kind of like if we have a. Stick with me on this. If we have like a factory line, right? And we have all of the things along the factory line and we're producing content. So like we're making it, we put it on the factory line and it ships out. How do we pause on like putting stuff on the factory line in order to create a new thing on the line that makes forever, going forward, all of the other things that we're producing better? And I feel like sequences and email is an example of one area where that exists, where if we don't do content for a week or two weeks and instead focus on this other area, all the future content that we produce is going to be more beneficial because we've added that multiplier to make, to make it better down the line. So I think too often we get caught up in, in the like feeding the beast of the content machine or the content.

This is how we can share it.

Yeah, yeah. Multiply it, amplify it, you know, going back and making sure that our pre existing content that is awesome gets seen, you know, and I think a welcome sequence in email does a really good job of that. So we talked about that welcome sequence. We talked about this idea of like, hey, after somebody goes through a welcome sequence, they can kind of have this additional touch point depending on if they've segmented into a certain area to dive a little bit deeper. Rss, you know, at the very, very basic level or a more kind of crafted touch point, if you have a new piece of content that's going out, is there anything like if you think of the buckets of email, do you feel like that kind of covers the different buckets or would there be any other areas that would be worth pointing out in terms of kind of broad category for email, Honestly, I think that wraps it up.

So having the welcome sequence, any sort of like tailored nurture content for your newbies and then having your, your evergreen content kind of on autopilot. I've heard it called an endless broadcast, you know, so, so you have those things and then in addition to that, like you Mentioned you have your live content. That's what fuels your endless broadcast. Other places I can imagine would be a lot of time. A lot of times people like to do short sequences, like a teachable thing like how to make bread at home or whatnot. I think the important thing is just remember if that's someone's first touch point with you to make sure that you're still introducing yourself. You know, let's not make assumptions that anyone knows who you are.

Yes.

And yeah. And then send them through your welcome sequence or send them into your nurture content based on, you know, where someone might be at the end of that sequence. Um, but like, that's not even super necessary. I think if you're creating content and you send it out to your list every week like that, a minimum, that's fantastic. We're just talking about, like you said, like, how do we maximize that? Having a welcome sequence prepares people even more for that content. And the value of a welcome sequence is that it's going to boost your open and click through rates and your engagement for the long haul. Because.

Can you talk about why that is?

Well, it's a certain familiarity. Right. Like if you. Yeah. Walk into a place and no one introduces themselves. Themselves. Like you're like, okay, well I'm leaving. And it's not really noteworthy. Versus if you walk into like I think of like a church and somebody says like, hi, Ali, nice to meet you. My name's Bob. I'm like, oh, Bob, Bob. I remember Bob. You know, it builds that certain familiarity.

Bob knows me. Yeah. In some sense.

And Bob knows me. He saw me and. Yeah. And it's funny because it's like, it's. Maybe it feels like the least sexy part of marketing. It's like it's not a webinar. It's not, you know, like an Instagram. Was it igtv? Clearly. I hang out on Instagram a lot. You know, it's not sexy, but it's warm and welcoming and it sets that tone for when they get an email from you in the future. So that's also part of it. Like, let's not send an email from like, I don't send an email from Duet. Mine's Allie. Mine is from Ali at Duet. Like, I want them to associate my name with being a person and that you're a person. And like, that's part of our long term relationship.

Yeah. So this is on the complete opposite side of that. Very transactional, not relational. Is there a point where you say, you know, this is great, we want to make this connection. We want to make sure that we're serving and helping people. And also we're a business, and we want to make sure that occasionally we're asking for whatever it might be, like a sale, a purchase, have you seen or worked with or have opinions of bloggers who are doing that well. And, like, again, very transactional. Like monetizing email.

Yeah.

In a smart way.

Yeah. I think it can be trans. I think we can make money without it feeling transactional. So let's go back to your segments. So part of it is, like, you're personalizing content based on what someone has told you. So, like, instead of just blasting everyone with the same thing, you know, like, if you have an ebook for beginner home chefs.

Yeah.

That's who you pitch it to. You don't pitch it to everyone, and you're gonna see a higher conversion rate that way. And for me, the absence of annoying emails that don't apply to me is just as much as valuable as sending the right email to the right person. So, like, if I'm an expert on bread baking, I don't need your intro to bread baking course, you know? So that's a huge part of it. And then you're also. That allows you to personalize the content because you know exactly who you're talking to. So, like, yeah, so in that email, it's not like. And this is for you. If you're this and this and this and this and this whole wide range. Like, you get to say, if you're a new home chef and you want to accomplish these three or four or five things, this is for you. You're able to really target that person more specifically. And specificity is a huge reason why people take action, because they're like, oh, this isn't just some vague ebook. Like, these are things that are actually going to help me for right where I'm at.

Analogy Buckle. You come in and somebody does come up to you, and they welcome you, and they go, hey, pair of pants. You want them? It's like, maybe, but probably not. Everybody versus, hey, welcome to the Buckle. Glad you're here. What are you looking for? Looking for cool graphic tee. We've got those. Here's a few that you could look at. Point being, it's speaking to people where they're at in a way that hopefully is helpful. Then enters into the game of, like, we are content producers. Most people who listen to this podcast, Pinch of Yum being an example, is there then this balance between free content and paid content? Pinch Of YM kind of does that, but not really. Like most of what we do is just free. But I think there's huge opportunity which we haven't capitalized on in creating a certain level tier of a product that is paid for and maybe higher touch or more specific or whatever. It might be a cookbook being an example of that, whether it be ebook or physical. But it's a great piece of the puzzle if somebody has that to introduce as a part of their email sequence.

Even, even affiliate programs, you know, so, and I feel like this needs to be stated one of the general rule, you know, break it if you want, but it's to send like three valuable emails before you send a pitch email. So think about like if you're going to be pitching an affiliate program, say it's Instacart or something like that. The three emails before it talk about the value of meal planning and the value of having your meals delivered. Like, think about how you can kind of prime your audience before you make a pitch. But just even thinking about that, that feels better as a marketer, as a content creator, because you're ultimately solving a problem. Otherwise you wouldn't be pitching that affiliate. Right. If you're out there just hitting people with affiliates and buy my thing, buy my thing, maybe find a different job. I don't know how it's working for you versus how can craft this in a way that actually knows who I'm talking to and wants to benefit them.

Yeah. And I think, I think there isn't a natural escalation of the relationship that can occur. I've seen that where I'll sign up for an email list or purchase a product and the exchange or the ask isn't like, hey, also buy this thing. And usually when it is, it's like a really quick unsubscribe for me. Like, yeah, hey, thanks for buying this, you know, chair. Here's four other chairs you should buy. It's like, no, I'm good. Versus or maybe a better example is, you know, peloton, right? So you sign up for peloton. The ask that they have after you sign up isn't, hey, here's some peloton gear. Like, you should buy it. It's here's where you can join the community on Facebook. Like, here's where you can follow us on Instagram. Like, it's still kind of an ask, but it's like an escalation of the relationship to then have another touch point somewhere else. Where to me until I was thinking about it now it's never actually felt like an ask, but it is a call to action. Maybe that's a better way to say it.

Yeah, they're micro commitments is what I've heard them called too.

Totally. And it's like then you're starting to get these micro commitments in other places. Places. And to your point, then you are top of mind more because then now you're also on Facebook and in email and you know, maybe following on Pinterest or whatever it might be. And I think there's strategy in having those micro commitments in other places. So like your blog isn't the only place where you'd maybe ask for email. Are there other places that we should be thinking about that? Right. So we have like, yeah, email opt in like at the top. Get my free ebook. Like how do you get people to actually sign up and what's the strategy around getting people like very, very top of funnel, to use a marketing term first getting people in. How do you do that? Well.

Oh, gosh. So I feel like in general there's a phrase for this that when I was at university was called integrated marketing campaign. So we tend to think because I'm learning about email funnels, that it's, it's all going to happen in email. As though like Instagram and other sorts of media, media don't work or we do Instagram and we forget about email and it's like, yeah, well email has a higher close rate and higher sales as a result than Instagram and better segmentation and whatnot. So just in general think of it, it's all integrated. Your website, your language, podcast or whatnot. Um, gosh, I think a lot of it is knowing where you want your home base to be. Like where are you most going to be able to relate to your viewers, your readers, your subscribers? I would say don't let that be Instagram. Don't let that be a social media platform that can disappear tomorrow. That's also a huge reason why I like email. Is it? When's the last time you changed your email address? My Gmail I've had for like 15 years and so I'm not going to lose people if an algorithm changes. And so thinking about like long term sustainability driving people to that. So I'm going to say drive it to your email list. Even if you are on Instagram, even if you try out Clubhouse or you're on what was the video Periscope like? Those things are cool and they're always going to pop up. But what's your home base for Always being able to communicate and get in touch with your subscribers, your most interested people, when you need to. Like with Instagram, if I'm pitching something, you know, like I'm launching something, who's all going to see it? It's already blocked by so many algorithms where it's like, at least with email, I know it got delivered.

Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. And then it's on you as the creator to make sure it's quality enough to get opened and that you interact with it. How about, like, if you were to look at a blog post and you were to say, I would recommend. Probably depends is the answer.

But test it so the marketer will.

Say that if somebody had to start, like, where would they start with trying to strategically get as many people as possible to sign up for their email list.

Oh, man. Well, have a, have an in blog or an inline blog form, like in your post or have it in your sidebar. Have it in your footer. Just spread out. I just recently did a review on my marketing and most of my subscribers are coming from landing pages. So I'm like, maybe I don't need inline forms. I just need a button with a picture of the opt in and it directs to the landing page because that's converting well enough. Yeah, like, have an announcement bar if you want. Like, I have kind of all those things. Figure out where people are even getting to those landing pages. I realize that so many people come from my resources page to the landing pages and then they convert. And so then my, my announcement bar on my site just drives people to my resources page. So they get to pick which of the five resources that they want most. So yeah, I would say, like, just get it set up, but don't feel like you have to tweak it all the time. Like give it some time to work.

Yep, that's great. One of the. We haven't done this yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if we end up doing it on a recipe page the most. If you look at like a heat map. For those who aren't familiar, heat map is like blue is people don't spend a lot of time there. Red means people spend a lot of time there. You can, like, Hotjar would be an example of a company that you could do heat maps with. You could install it and see it on your site. The hottest part of a recipe post is going to be the recipe card. But it's also there's. There's like the least amount of call to action in that area. Not that you want super Strong call to action. But one of the areas we've thought about and potentially will test is like, what does it look like to have a really simple like opt in, sign up something like that in that area. Because people see that a lot when.

You could direct them to a lead magnet. Whether it's like a cookbook with 25 different recipes or it could be, you know, this is a bundle of five recipes that are all really similar and that's what you asked them to download. And this recipe that you're on right now is included. We just make it easier for you to reference again later.

Yeah, that's awesome. We've covered a lot. But also it's covered a lot of the surface of all that it is. And it takes a lot to dive deep into it, which is what you do. And it's been great to work with you. And I know the pinch of Yum team and Food Blogger Pro team has also really loved working with you. If other people want to work with you, connect with you, follow up, how do they do that? Ali and also pointing out that you're an expert on Food Blogger Pro if people want to reach out in the. In the forum or if we do upcoming live.

I love those forum chats. Yeah, I love those.

But how do people connect with you?

So I've actually I've got a landing page just for Food Blogger Pro listeners. So it's Duet D U E t co FoodBloggerPro or you can just come find me at Duet Co. You can book a discovery call with me there. If you would like to hire me to work work with you in your blog, one on one or your business. Otherwise, on that Food Blogger Pro landing page, you can get a freebie called your first welcome sequence where I provide a bunch of different prompts for you to be able to kind of craft out exactly what would be in your own welcome sequence.

Cool. Awesome, Ali. Super great to connect with you. It's so fun to talk with experts who have a deep understanding and also who are just fun people to talk to. It makes it so much easier.

Thank you. Same to you. It's been a joy.

Yeah. To do a podcast episode and excited to stay connected and and work with you and see you around Food Blogger Pro. So thanks for jumping on the call.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

And that's a wrap on this episode of the Food BloggerPro podcast. Thanks again for tuning in today. We hope you enjoyed this interview with Allie. And I wanted to mention that the resource that she mentioned at the end of that episode Duet co foodbloggerpro if you go there, and if you're really, really fast, you can be one of three people who can get a free strategy call with her. There's a link right there in the middle of the page to schedule your free 20 minute strategy call, so be sure to be quick and get on that if you are interested. Otherwise, you can find all of the other resources and links that were mentioned in this episode at the URL for this podcast. So foodbloggerpro.com 288 you can find all of those there links to Ali's site as well as some other important and helpful links. So that does it for us this week my friend. We will see you next time. And until then, make it a great week.

Sam.