319: From Attorney to Food Blogger - How Mike Johnson Grew His Popular Instagram Account into a Full-Time Business

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Hello, hello, hello. You're listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. Today we are chatting with Mike Johnson from Mike Bakes nyc. Mike's gonna be talking about a few different things. He's actually gonna be talking about what it was like to live in New York in March of 2020 and to be working as an attorney. And during that month, March 2020, you can only imagine, we all remember March 2020, but especially in New York. He's going to be talking about what it was like transitioning from his dream job as an attorney to realistically, another dream job of working on his Instagram and his blog full time. What those first few months were like. He's, he's also going to be talking about what it looks like in terms of, you know, the behind the scenes business, how he goes about thinking about creating revenue, where that's coming from, and be talking about the things that were most helpful in growing his Instagram following. He has 170,000 Instagram followers. We're going to be talking about the idea of kind of Instagram first using that as a platform and then later on building a blog to support that and how you go about doing that, strategies around how you can direct people from your different platforms to your blog. And I'm going to be talking a little bit about kind of what that was like for pinch of. Yeah, we actually started blog first and then kind of pointed people to social. So a lot of great conversations with Mike from Mike Bakes nyc, talking about his journey, jumping in full time as a creator, what that's been like for him. So let's go ahead and jump into this interview with Mike from Mike Bakes ny, nyc. Mike, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, so we have the podcast, the audio, and then we also do video and you have a video where it's like, ah, you know, video, which is going to be really fun because we're going to be talking about your, some of the things that you've done with air subs and the work that you've done, you know, perfecting video and learning about video. But before we do that, I want to hear about your transition from an attorney, which is a successful career. It feels like one of those career categories where parents are like, I want my kids to be attorneys or doctors. You know, like these are the career path that, that is aspirational. And you did that, you achieved that. And you've recently gone in a very different direction and have focused on building your brand, building your following online. So when did that happen? And what has that transition been like for you?

Yeah. So Mike Bakes NYC actually started when I was in law school. So my, I had always been interested in, you know, like photography and obviously food and desserts, but I just pretty much started it. When I started, I was basically just going to like New York City restaurants and mainly dessert places and just taking pictures of my food. I had like pictures of New York City and stuff on my Instagram account. It was just kind of like a general sort of photography esque account basically. And I noticed that like the pictures of the food that I was taking was like doing, you know, much better. It was getting better engagement, people were like sharing it, things like that.

So it's better than what?

Like, better than like cityscapes or like the skyline and things of that nature. So I was just like, well, maybe I'll like start doing like all food and see like what happens from this. And so I started like only posting pictures of food and you know, eventually restaurants would start to like invite me in and things like that. And I did that for, I don't know, maybe one or two, maybe even three years. The bulk of my following, I guess at this point now, because I've been doing it for a while, I'd say about half of my following came from doing like New York City restaurants.

Yeah.

And I'd say once I hit like the 80,000 follower mark is when I was like, oh, you know, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna start baking and doing my own stuff. I was at a point in law school where I was, my schedule was just too busy and I couldn't like keep going out to restaurants and traveling around the city to get, you know, content. So I started making content at home. And that kind of led to people like asking, oh, like, where's the recipe for this? So at first I was sharing other people's, like the link to other people's recipes. And then eventually it was like, you know, why don't I look into. I. I had friends that were, you know, food bloggers like that, that do what I do, like Broma Bakery and you know, other people. Like, I was aware of, of the community and what was possible in being a recipe developer and food photographer and everything. So I was like, you know what, Let me learn everything I can about this. So I bought a bunch of like culinary science textbooks and I like enrolled in like, you know, photography courses and watched a ton of YouTube videos and like my little hobby became a like a second business basically. So I was like in school studying for the bar, all of this stuff. And eventually working as an attorney and then also learning everything I could about blocking on the side.

It's a lot of learning.

Yeah, it was.

It was learning how to be an attorney, I feel like, is enough. Yeah. Yeah. So a couple things that would be interesting to talk about. One, you know, when you were first starting out there, you said restaurants started to invite me in. Yeah, I think a lot of people would be kind of curious, what does that look like? And, and. And how did that. How did you make that connection? And then there are. They just, like, giving you free food in order for you to, like, document and post about it. Were you reaching out to them? Were they reaching out to you? What did that look like?

So New York City has, like, a really big. I call it, like, a foodie influencer scene. Um, sure. I'm like, there's a lot of, like, food Instagrams where it's like, there may be a person behind the account, but they're only sharing, you know, like, New York City restaurants. It's not, like, recipes or stuff that they're eating at home, but still food photography nonetheless. And so, yeah, restaurants will regularly. Sometimes they'll even host, like, influencer events. So they'll invite, like, you know, 20 food influencers to come. And it's like, usually when they're launching, like, a new menu or they have a new item and they offer you if, you know, I was doing more of, like, the one on ones because I just wasn't a fan of going in large groups. So, like, I would, you know, they would reach out to me on Instagram, be like, hey, like, we love your work if you're interested in coming in sometime. And I would literally just schedule a date and a time. Whoever, whatever manager was on call or on duty that day, like, knew I was coming in, and they would just, like, save me. I would have a table, you know, near the window, and they would just be like, order whatever you want. And everything was comped and I just took pictures and, you know, they would just ask. I never. So when I was doing it, I never at the time, like, no one really asked, like, oh, could you do this, this and that? So, like, it was never, like, you have to post this.

Right.

Sit on my stories and then feed at the time. And yeah, so that's pretty much what I did for. It was quite a few years. And that was basically a broke law school student. That's how I was eating and feeding myself. Totally was by getting these free meals from restaurants in the city.

So. So were you nervous about transitioning your account from one that was documenting restaurants and, you know, different meals that they would offer? Maybe it's a new restaurant, trendy restaurant, and they have a new menu item that they're offering. You go document that, doing your own recipes and kind of a shift in focus for the audience that you had built. So you have, you know, kind of 80,000 people. It's a substantial amount of people who are expecting a certain type of content from you.

Yeah.

Were you nervous to then switch and start publishing your own recipes in your own content that you might use those people?

Extremely. I. There was, like, a solid month where I think every single week I posted a poll in my stories and was like, sure, you know, like, what are you interested in seeing? Like, are you. Would you be interested in, like, homemade recipes and, you know, not necessarily, like, New York City restaurant photography? What if I changed my name? Because at the time I was Mike Eats nyc, not Mike Bakes nyc.

Sure. I was gonna ask about that.

Yeah.

Because I was like, oh, that's interesting that you call it Bakes when you started, when it was actually just documented.

Yeah, so it was. It used to be Mike's nyc. And so that's why I changed it to Bakes. It was like, it's still, like, close enough that if people see, maybe they'll be like, oh, let's check out and see, like, what is the switch? What's going on here? And maybe I won't lose that initial following. But, yeah, I was extremely worried at first, but I'd say over. I mean, I did. I am not going to lie, I did lose some followers. But overall, I started gaining traction with a whole new audience. And so I just started growing exponentially.

And part of it, part of it is what is going to be the best fit for you moving forward? And I would imagine one of the hard things is even in those early polls, the people are following you because you had created certain type of content. So it was like, you know, to use a really extreme example, if you did, like, nature photography, like National Geographic type photography, and then somebody's like, I'm going to pivot super hard into, like, muscle cars. And you're like, what kind of content do you want to see? Everybody'd be like, nature photography. And nobody would say muscle cars. Yeah, but there are still people who want to see pictures of muscle cars. They're just not the people who are following you necessarily. Now, for your example, the. The Venn diagram overlap. There's more. It's like food.

It's exactly.

You can stay in kind of the same category, but you still will lose people. Did you feel like any of that was true when you would do those polls where it was like, kind of slanted towards people who are just saying what you had always produced, but you was. Was it that you knew that this would be a better fit for. Of content for you moving forward and so you said, this is what I'm going to do.

Yeah. So when I did the polls, I'd say the closest it ever was was at one point, like, towards the last week of me asking basically the same questions. It was around like 5050. I'd say, like 55 were like, keep it New York City restaurants. 45 are like, oh, we're interested in, like, you know, developed recipes. But, like, in thinking about it, I just, I knew that there would be more of an opportunity for me, I guess, if I, if I did the, you know, went the homemade recipe and learned how to develop things and, you know, went that route just because at the end of the day, my. When I was doing this Instagram as like a hobby, not as like a business, I was doing it more so for the photography aspects, like the food. Photography is what is interesting to me. I don't like developing recipes. I do, but I'm just way more interested in the food side of things. Yeah. So I knew that there would be be opportunities down the line if I had developed those skills and was able to, like, you know, build out that skill set. More so than if I were to just continue doing New York City restaurant photography.

Yeah, like what, what, when you think of the opportunities, what would those be?

So I just, I knew, like I mentioned earlier, I. My friend Sarah from Broma Bakery, I knew about, you know, sponsored opportunities and things like that. And so I was like, maybe, you know, one day if I, you know, know, learn this skill set, maybe I will have brands reaching out to me that'll want to pay me. Because obviously I. I had had a lot of, like, restaurants and stuff out, but for the. The most part, I wasn't really making money despite my large following. Like, I think I did maybe two sponsored posts with like, Seamless and Grubhub and, you know, in partnership with another restaurant. But outside of that, like, I wasn't really making money. So it would truly watch just like, yeah, a hobby or passion project. And I knew for the amount of time that I was putting into it, I was like, oh, it'd be nice if I could, like, make, you know, a Little bit of extra money and use that for, I don't know, food or whatever I decided to use it for.

Yeah, totally. So at what point in making that decision to switch did you realize, like, oh, I can actually create an income from this? Like, was there a point where you're like, I'm glad I made the switch because now these opportunities are starting to come about.

Oh. So I think there was a point where I had that, like, thought, but it was like, honestly, maybe a solid like nine or ten months after I made the switch that I was like, okay, like, this is actually, like, this was a good idea because I was very slow in making my. My transition to being like, to doing only my content. Essentially. I. I'd say I launched my website in May of 2018, and I posted my first, like, developed recipe May of 2018. The next recipe that I posted wasn't until, like, November of 2018. Like, I was very slow and, like, just very, like, apprehensive, I guess, of, like, am I making the right decision? Yeah. And so it took me some time to, like, fully lean into it. But I think, like, once I did and I like, fully transitioned to. I think towards the end of 2018 is when I was finally just, like, only posting photos of food that I had made. I wasn't doing any more New York City stuff. I think that's when I was finally like, okay, I think this is going to be worth it. I saw, you know, my follower count was starting to grow. And early that next year is when I started getting brands reaching out to me for a collab.

Yep.

And offering payment off the bat. So, yeah.

Which was probably a huge moment, like, really exciting. Was that. Is that Instagram then? That those people would be reaching out, like, is that a brand sending you a DM on Instagram and saying, hey, could we partner and work together?

Yeah. When I was first starting out, most of my. Most of the brands that would contact me were through Instagram DMs or they would DM me and ask if I had an email address that they could contact me through because I just did not have a professional profile and didn't have my email listed or anything. But once I, you know, added the whole, you know, how you can have a business account and have your email button and everything. Once I added that, brands consistently would email me rather than dm.

Yeah. And one of the things that's interesting is you see this starting to happen now. It's different than when we started, which is like, we would start almost like blog first so we start a blog and then like everything that we have is kind of supporting the blog, Facebook, Instagram, things like that. What you see now is like a lot of people will start on a platform. Instagram, TikTok now would be another example. They kind of validate some, some of the ideas they have. They are able to move forward with.

That.

Almost as like a testing ground. Hey, people are interested in, they want to do it. And then kind of building around that. Would you say that's kind of been your journey is validating on Instagram and then building off of that or is it the other way around?

Yeah, that's exactly what I did. And kind of how my journey or career path has been was Instagram was basically where the bulk of my following was at the time. And I was like, you know, maybe I should expand and get other platforms and my own blog and have my own space. And it's, I think for me at least on, on my end it's almost felt like I've been trying to play like catch up on like the blog end because like I already had this significantly large following by the time I launched my blog. And you know, I was just trying to like promote essentially and get the word out there that hey, like I'm on other things now, like this is what I'm offering. Yep, go check it out. And so and I guess like the all of the learning curve that is, you know, having your own self hosted website. So it has been quite the experience.

Do you feel like you've been able to kind of siphon off some of the success you've had with Instagram to the blog? Or have those been pretty separate? Like obviously the content can be used in multiple places, but can the audience transition over? Have you found success in getting people on Instagram to go to your site? Or is it kind of like you're building this thing in one town and then you're building another thing in another town and people aren't going to go if unless they're check it out, unless they're from the town that you're building the thing in.

So it feels like a little bit of both, honestly. I would say when I first started my blog and you know, had a total of like five recipes, my, you know, web traffic was all coming from social media. It was either, you know, Pinterest or Instagram. And just from me sharing, you know, swipe up links and posting in feed and putting, you know, the link is in my bio and all that stuff. And so primarily when I was first starting Out, I'd say, honestly, almost up. For the first year of me starting out, I also started off on Squarespace. So, like, SEO was not like, a really big thing. I didn't really know anything about it. So all of my traffic primarily was coming from, you know, the audiences that I already had at the time. I had a very small email list, things of that nature. And now I would say it's. It's primarily. I mean, I think my social media, like, all of social media. So whether it's TikTok, Pinterest, anything like that, I think only makes up like, 15, maybe 20% of the traffic that I get. So it's primarily all coming from organic search and Google and stuff now, which is great and I'm happy. But it does feel almost like I have, like, a disconnect in audiences. So I find, like, blog posts I like, regularly reference, things that have happened on Instagram are like, oh, I posted a poll on my stories, or like, I'll, like, plug myself in my blog post because I feel like I'm talking to two different audiences.

Yeah, yeah. Like, giving them the context around what's been happening in other places.

Is that.

Is that what you mean? So, like, hey, yeah. And it's also, I feel like, you know, as content creators, one of the skills that you need to develop, which it sounds like you're doing, is like, the ability to say, hey, I'm gonna create content unique for this platform. But I'm also gonna mention, you know, while writing a blog post, Instagram, but not in a way where it's like, you have to go to Instagram in order to receive any benefit. And in the same way, Instagram, not saying, like, hey, you have to go to the blog to get any of the benefit, but finding that right mix of like, hey, this thing's over here. You can check it out, and you probably should, but to not cut off all of the value in any place. Have you found. When you're publishing content on any social platforms, are you putting the entire recipe on there? Are you encouraging people to go to the blog and check it out? What's your. What are your thoughts around that?

So I'd say nine times out of ten, I primarily, I'll say for my own recipes, I don't ever put the entire recipe on. I guess that's not completely true. I'd say 98% of the time, I'm not putting the full recipe on, like, Instagram or TikTok or anything. I will just, like, I do a lot of, like, behind the Scenes like step by step videos of me making recipes. So I will, you know, like an edited video of me making the recipe start to finish. And then at the end I'll do a swipe up link to the full recipe. The blog post, there are some, I think there are a total of maybe three or four recipes that only live on Instagram. And it's either they were like adapted from a friend from a cookbook, or it was a sponsored post that I did with the brand where it was only for Instagram or to live on stories and not to go on the blog. So that's just where the recipe lives. So I primarily do, I do try to encourage people from Instagram to go to the blog to get the full recipe.

Cool. And at what point did you go full time? When was that?

It was March 2020.

Okay. Wow.

Yeah.

Was that like. And in New York too, was that, was it like beginning of March, end of March? Like, I feel like March 2020 is like one of the fastest changing from beginning to end months.

Yeah, it was end of March. So I, I, When I was working as an attorney, I was working, initially I was working for the city slash state as a prosecutor. And November of 2019, I left that job and went to a private law firm. Um, I just, I figured if I was going to work long hours, I wanted to make money. Honestly, that's what it was. So I went to a private firm and from. I was there from November to March and three weeks. So New York City are like stay at home orders. You can't leave the house. Went into effect in March. So when we were working from home, it was the third week of March, the managing partner of the law firm I was at sent out an email to all of us and was like, basically it was, it said that the one of the attorneys that was working for, that was in charge of like the finance for the firm had been stealing money from the firm for years, like 20 plus years. And so the combination of this attorney stealing money and oh my gosh, Covid and everything, they just couldn't afford to keep operating. So the firm itself actually filed for bankruptcy. And they were like, you guys, oh my gosh. In a week and a half. So I was frantically applying for jobs in the city, which was, I was getting interviews, but basically it was like, we don't know what's going on. Yeah, totally new people line, you know, whatever. So I was just like, this is the, It's a now or never. I was like, this is the perfect time for me to Try. I, I'm very risk averse and obviously I went to law school and, and got my, I'll say dream job of when I was growing up. So I always had excuses for not taking Mike Bakes and my full time. And so this was kind of when I was just like, all right, maybe.

The only way that it would have happened.

Exactly.

I was like, this is global Pandemic, the company you're working for going bankrupt. Like, it's really every door shutting.

Exactly.

And then like your, your brand and food work is like the store is still open.

Yeah, exactly. That's, that's exactly what happened. I honestly, I think I might have taken the leap myself had none of that happened. But I honestly, it probably would have been two or three years down the line. I don't think I would have done it as soon as I did. So I just told myself, you know, March hit, end of March, rolled around. I was like, all right, let's try this out for, you know, two or three months and then if it's not working out, let's. We'll figure out something else.

What were those first? Yeah, go ahead.

I've always kept my law license valid, so it's still my fallback option as a worst case scenario. But sure, yeah, it's been. I haven't looked back since March. I'm definitely happier and enjoying what I do now.

Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think you're happier?

And I honestly, I, I've always been someone that's been, I'll say, like a creative person. So like in middle school and high school I did all of my electives were, you know, art classes. I did like ER IV art. I was in yearbook. Just everything like art related, essentially, I've always been interested in and I think just the nature of how I was raised, it was always like, oh, those are nice to have as a hobby, but like, let's get something more secure as a job. So those are just. That's kind of how I like grew up looking at everything that I was doing, it's like, oh, these are like fun hobbies. Probably can't make a career out of it. And I think once I like got older and like, I guess wiser in a sense and like knew that it was possible to actually make a career out of it is when I was like, all right, let's like work for what I'm actually interested in. Not to say I'm not interested in law, obviously.

Right.

All this money and all these years studying and going to School. But it's. It's like what started as, like, a creative outlet for me became, like, what I found myself. Like, it was like, wow, I really enjoy what I'm doing more so than when I was, you know, working as an attorney. Um, so having the opportunity to kind of, like, pursue that and go forward with it has been amazing.

Yeah. Knowing what you know now, would you have still gone to law school?

Yes, only because. So now I. I have a manager that handles all of my, like, brand sponsorships and everything like that. But when I was first starting out and, you know, brands are reaching out to me, the fact that I went to law school and knew everything about crafting contracts, I had that background knowledge. I was definitely, I'd say, more ahead of the curve than the average, like, food influencer, food blogger that's just starting out. Like, I just had that kind of legal knowledge that really helped me and helped with negotiations, like, and getting paid more money than I'd say most people that were, you know, just starting out.

What did you know about. What did your experience as an attorney help you with and with negotiations? Like, what did. What did that look like?

I think, honestly, it was just more of, like, it helped, like, I guess in the way that I would phrase what I was trying. The point that I was trying to get across. So I felt that, like, they were asking for a lot and not paying what I thought that they should be basically having a intelligent way of saying that without being like, hey, I think you should pay me more. Being able to structure, like, all right, I'm going to be offering, you know, XYZ and giving them some sort of, like, data or something to back everything up to, kind of be like, hey, like, this should be more. Or, you know, if you're not willing to pay more than maybe let's negotiate down some of the deliverables I'm going to be providing to you. Whereas I don't think a lot of, like, beginner food bloggers are, like, necessarily confident in doing that. They're like, oh, a brand wants to work. If me, let me just say yes to everything. And, you know, I'm excited for this opportunity.

Yeah. I think some people are, like, you said, so excited about the potential. It's like, yes, let's do it. Not knowing, to your point that you can actually come back and say, hey, super excited about this. It's not like you have to pretend not to be excited, but in what I heard you saying was like, list out what you're providing him. Here's what it would look like when I pride this, you know, like these photographs, I would be developing the recipe. I would be, you know, communicating with you back and forth, two rounds of revisions. And usually I would, you know, charge this amount. You came in at this amount. Is that kind of what you're saying is like kind of breaking it out a little bit, providing some context. It's not just like in a post on Instagram. There's a lot that goes into it. Calling that out and then saying, with this in mind, here's what I would expect to get paid for that exact. Yeah, got it. What were those first two to three months like for you when you got. When you were like, I'm no longer an attorney. You're still technically an attorney, but, like, working as an attorney. And I'm doing this very different thing of like, building a food brand online.

So it was very stressful because I was actually working on finishing up my first cookbook at the time. My first cookbook was completely written and photographed while I was still working as an attorney. So the month of March, the end of March is actually into April is when all of my photos were due. I'd sent the manuscript off at the end of February. So I was like, working as an attorney, working from home. And then like, in between, like, zoom calls, I would be like, be in the kitchen, like, preparing something for me to photograph after the zoom call. So it was like a lot of, like, back and forth, a balancing act. It was, it was. Yeah, I didn't sleep much. And then obviously, you know, the stay at home orders, orders hit and people went crazy. So, like, there was a whole ingredient shortage. So, like, I luckily was, you know, kind of stuff because I was working on a cookbook. But I had to, like, plan out in my head, like, all right, this is what I need to get these cookbook photos done. And then like, this is how much, you know, flour or sugar I have left for any, like, recipe testing and new recipes. So that's when I started doing, like, small batch desserts and things like that. And so for the month, like March and April, everything that I put out was small batch recipes because I figured if I had trouble getting flour, maybe else was in the same boat.

Interesting.

So it was, it was, it was definitely an interesting time. For the first, like, two months, I'd say it wasn't until like, summertime. So I, you know, I say end of March is when I went full time. I'd say like, June, July is when I, like, finally got into the groove of, like, Waking up and like, all right, this is what I'm doing today. And, you know, kind of getting some sort of schedule figured out.

Yeah. What does that look like at a high level? What is your day to day, week to week schedule?

So it is constantly changing. I don't know if it's. I haven't found what works for me or if I just like find something that works and then get bored with it.

Sure.

When I initially started out, I was doing kind of like an hourly type thing. So, like, I would wake up, I would do computer, like check in, check on emails, then, you know, anything I might have missed, catch up on social media, reply to comments for like the first hour of the day, essentially. And then I would go straight to the kitchen and do any recipe testing that I had or preparing. If I was doing a shoot that day, preparing whatever it was that I was planning on shooting. If I had a shoot, then, you know, afternoon would be the shoot and sometimes I would start editing. There was no shoot. If I just recipe tested, then I would do like back end blog stuff, working on blog posts, things like that. And nighttime was I. I. The one thing I have tried to hold on to is like not working all hours into the night because, as you know, you had done that for. Yeah. As anyone that owns a business, you, like, there's always something you could be doing. So it's like.

Yeah, yeah.

It's hard to like, you know, separate, give yourself doing something. But I have tried to hold on to like not working too late. I'm not gonna say that's always what happens. But now I'd say I do. I try to do like daily tasks. I break up what I'm doing for the week by day. So like, I have one day where it's only computer stuff. One day where, you know, if I'm in the kitchen, I'm only in the kitchen for that day. Whether it's like, I'll do recipe testing and shoot days on the same days. But I try to computer work separate from creative work because I just find it's. My brain processes it better and I'm. I go into shoots feeling better when I'm just like, oh, I've only been in the kitchen today. I haven't been staring at a computer screen.

Yes.

So I'd say now and for the past, honestly, probably like the past four or five months, that's been my sort of schedule. I would say it changes from week to week. So I don't always do like, you know, not every Monday is a computer day. It just depends on like, what, what I'm working on. If I have deadlines that are approaching, things like that. I basically have a calendar that's a bunch of sticky notes on it that are coordinated with. This is what I'm doing for today. It's cool. People that have ocd, it's their best friend. Honestly. It's very, very neat and organized.

But yeah, that's awesome. And then in terms of like, if you were to look at the, all the different components of what you do the. As a, as a business and pie chart it out, I know there's a lot of different things you're doing. You're working with brands and sponsors. You're doing, I think you work with mediavine. Do Air subs. We interviewed the founder of Air Subs, which we'll link to that podcast in the show notes. What does that look like in terms of the pie chart and curious kind of what your thoughts are as a business owner of how you want to adjust those. Like more sponsored content, less sponsored content, more around like classes, less around classes. What are your thoughts around that?

So right now my focus has been trying to do less sponsored content and bring in more passive income with media buying through ads and SEO. So I have been. For the past, I will say part of this has been I lost like the first like 25 recipes that I posted on my blog randomly. WordPress. We don't know what happened, but essentially my photos are gone. So the blog post is still there, but all of the photos are gone. So I was like a, you know, some, A lot of them I have the shoots for, so just like re editing the photos. But I've been like reshooting old recipes, revamping old recipes, you know, reworking them and like really going through and like optimizing the post. Because before it was just like, this is me. That's like really good and here's, here's the recipe. So now I've been like going through and like, you know, actually, you know, you know, now that I know about SEO and everything, you know, optimizing this blog post. So my focus has been on getting, you know, my blog to a healthy, healthy position essentially to where I don't need to necessarily rely on sponsored posts or anything like that for an income because I'd say that's primarily where most of my income is coming from right now. I should say it's sponsored posts and then a tie between, you know, the baking classes that I'm offering and ad income.

Yep.

So I'm trying to get that ad income a little bit larger on the pipeline. So I can. I. I'm already picky with the brands I work with, but in a sense, I think having that increased traffic would allow me to, I guess I could say, be even more picky, which would be. Would be nice. And I could focus on putting out recipes that I only want to do and not really have to think about, like, oh, how can I incorporate this product that I'm probably already using anyways, but in a way that makes the product shine.

Yeah. And there's just additional considerations when it's not just you thinking of something you want to do, but it's you thinking of something you want to do that will also work for the goal of the brand.

Yeah.

Which might be different than what your goal would be, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just creates complexity and content creation.

Yes.

I see that you work with an agency. Can you tell me about what that has been like? And knowing that, like, you technically can review contracts and a lot of times that's why somebody would work with the agency is like, review contracts, do negotiations, all things that you can do. What was your thinking with working with an agency and what has happened?

Like, yeah, so I am with Smith and Saint. I think I signed with them probably September of last year, maybe October, and it's been great. I was a little apprehensive at first, only because. Not. Not because of them, but just I. I had the mindset and I had actually talked to. To a friend maybe a week before Smith and Saint reached out, and we were just like, oh, I don't think we'll ever get an agent. Like, I was like, I like the negotiation side and, like, you know, I can handle, you know, xyz. And then maybe literally a week later, both of us signed with the same agency. But it has been great, I will say. I. So it's primarily run. It's two sisters that started it. And I. Why I really liked them when I first, like, met them was because they're kind of the same story as me. They are both attorneys that have now left kind of the practice of law. So, you know, same boat that I was in, I was still using what I learned in law school for, you know, contracts negotiations and stuff. But I was getting up when they had reached out. It was, you know, started, you know, quarter three, getting ready for quarter four, and I was starting to spend more time on the computer answering emails back and forth than I was, like, in the kitchen or getting to, like, do anything that I enjoyed doing, like, I wasn't taking photos or anything like that. I just felt like I was like on the computer three out of the five days of the week. Yeah, working. So I was like, you know what, let's, let's try this out and see, you know, what happens. And it's been great. I wish I would have done it sooner. They handled all of that for me. So now I, you know, I'd say traditionally, now brands are reaching out to them directly. Any brands that, like, I might have worked with in the past or that contact me directly, I just like loop in my manager and we kind of like, you know, tag team and do everything together, but we're like, you know, in constant contact through text and everything. And she just kind of like handles literally everything dealing with, working with brands. So, like, she has, you know, she'll do all of the Google Calendar invites and the deadlines, all of the negotiations. She handles all the contract stuff. I basically don't get involved with a brand until the contract is signed. And I'm like, pitching recipe ideas and we're like going, going over that stuff. So it's given me a lot of time to, like, focus on other things because as you running a business, there are many things to focus on. So it's truly freed up a lot of my time and I could not be happier.

Yeah, it's a. We've been using this kind of business framework called eos and they have all of these different kind of tools, so to speak, but one of them is called gwc and it's kind of a analysis that you do for any of the functions of your role. So like, a function of your role in this example would be negotiation and brand relationship. And GWC stands for gets. Get it. Want. Gets it, Wants it. Capacity to do it. And so in that exercise, like you would get it right. You're an attorney, you can do negotiations. You know, it wants to do it. Maybe like, it sounds like you were like, this is kind of fun. I like doing it. It's something I enjoy. Capacity to do it. No, like, you just don't have the time to do it. So in the GWC test, you'd say, well, I just don't have the capacity to do this. So then what? Well, you delegate that to somebody else and find somebody who can do that really well. And it's such a freeing moment. I remember this feeling when I was processing all of the invoices that would come in. So any contractor, vendor that we would work with, they would just email me and then I'd go and I'd process that invoice. And I was like, it only takes like five minutes for me to do that. But I remember when we hired somebody and one of the roles that we assigned to them was like processing invoices. I trained her in on it. And it's a really freeing moment when you can get an inbox, a message in your inbox, an email in your inbox or message that's a dm and you can just forward that. It's like that's the amount of work that you need to do is like route it to the person who needs to see it. Yeah. And I think the. The more that your responsibilities increase, the more that you're having to figure out who you're going to route stuff to within your team. And it sounds like that was a big win for you. Do you have other thoughts on what those roles will be in the future? Are you thinking about working with other people? What's the next, you know, area that you're going to look to bring somebody in to help with, whether kind of an agency in. In like this or a team member? Any thoughts around that?

Yeah, so I. Two. Two positions immediately. Top of my head. One is I am going to eventually hire someone out to do everything relating to Facebook and Pinterest because I just spending time on those two platforms and I just feel as though, especially with Pinterest, that it's just so viable for. For my business and. Yeah, it does. Out of all of the social media platforms, I would say, at least for me, it is. Pinterest is the highest traffic driver. So it's. I know it's something that I should put more effort into it than I do and I just don't have the capacity to do it. Yeah, yeah, that is a big one. And then the other one. And this was a plan that I was wanting to do even while I was before I was taking Mike Bakes NYC full time and then Covid hit and I could not. It was impossible at that point. But I do want to bring on a second person in person. So like someone that's in New York City to help when I have, you know, like heavy shoot days. So like.

Yeah, yeah.

This week, for instance, I have, I think five deadlines this week. So I have five photo shoots or shoots that I have to do. And it's just like to have an extra set of hands. Whether it's like helping with hands in the video, helping with stuff in the kitchen, preparing stuff, things of that nature. Yeah, it's I know it'll help me because I obviously my. I guess the photography side of things, it would make things, my process so much, so much easier.

And there's something to be said about really looking hard at, like, what are the things that don't matter if I do them. And one of those is like scheduling stuff on Pinterest. Does it matter if you do the photography? Probably. Like, people can probably get to know your style, your feel. Does it matter if you do the writing? Probably. Like at this point, if it's you and it's a personal brand.

Yeah.

Does it matter if you know you are prepping the recipe and like measuring stuff out? Probably not. Like, and it's interesting to think about what are the things that are most cost effective to hire and also least impactful for what you're doing in terms of like, you being the one to do it, which is always kind of a fun game to play to kind of analyze that, which. It sounds like you've kind of pinpointed those two. Last thing I'm curious to hear you talk a little bit about is air subs. So we, we touched on that briefly. But what is that like to do an air subs class? How do you get people to sign up? Is it primarily your blog? Is it Instagram, is it email? And then what are just logistically, how do you pull it off?

Yeah, so I. Air subs has been. It's been very interesting. I am enjoying it. I was a little unsure of how it was gonna go, but I. I've been offering three classes a month and they've traditionally been on weekends. I'm moving away from that starting next month because I've had people reach out asking for like, oh, can we do like a Friday night class? Or something like that? So I. But yeah, I do three classes a month and it's varied between recipes that are on my blog, recipes that are not on my blog, that were in my first cookbook, or just recipes that, like. There's been, I think, two classes where it's a recipe that is like, it was only available for that class. It's not anywhere. And I've been promoting it on Instagram primarily, and then also my email list. I am ashamed to say that I've been offering classes for probably like five months now and still don't have any information about it on my website. There's a page in the works that's just in draft. I just haven't published.

Always something, always be doing more.

Yeah, I'm just like, people like DM me. And I just. I'm like, I. I need to work on this page. So I could just send them a link that'll have all the information. Yeah, yeah, it's just one of those things that's just like, it's on the list. I just haven't finished or gotten to it. But, yeah, so primarily my email list, every time I. I offer every time next month's classes are open for registration, I will post on Instagram a carousel post with the three images of what we're making, and then I'll send out to my email list as well, with links to sign up for each class. But, yeah, it's been. It's been great. Air Subs handles, like, everything, essentially, I just, on my end, I input, you know, the class information, the price of the class, the time, things like that. And then I upload a PDF that I create that has, you know, an equipment list, the ingredient list, and then the full recipe. And then when people sign up, Air Subs handles sending out, you know, all of that information, they send out the Zoom link. And so really all I have to do is once I pick the date and time on that date and time, just remember to start the Zoom meeting on my laptop and everyone is there. And I have. I have it set up to where Air Subs will automatically upload the recording. So I record all classes and save them to my cloud and Air Subs will automatically upload it to their website. So people, if they can't make it to class, can watch the replay. If you did make it to class, they can watch the replay as well. And then those classes are also available, like for on demand purchase. So all of the past classes that I've done, people could, like, you know, purchase it and watch it right then and there. So they're not interacting in real time. They can't really ask the questions like you could if you were there, but they at least get, I guess, the nature of being in class and hear the questions that other people ask and things of that nature. And I kind of walk through everything the recipe has to offer and the technical sides of baking, things like that.

Cool. Yeah. And just one more plug for that interview we did on the Food Blogger Pro podcast. We'll link to that if you want to hear more about Air Subs for any listeners. Great way to monetize for somebody who focuses on a specific type of content from Instagram, because it's a really clear call to action. You know, that people are really interested in what you're doing and this is maybe kind of bearing the lead a little bit, but, like, you've had this success growing your Instagram account. Would you be able to pinpoint that to something like, what obviously incredible content, like a really important piece, most important piece. Are there other things where you'd say, hey, as a creator, these are the things that I think maybe helped with the growth of my account. Because you've been able to achieve something that not a lot of people have, but a lot of people want to achieve, which is significant growth. I think you have 170,000 followers now and continuing to grow. How have you done that? Like, what does that look like? And what's your advice?

Yeah, I feel like people ask all the time, and I'm just like, I wish that there was like, a magic formula I could provide. Honestly, for me, it was like, focusing on, like you said, content was like, number one, and I think always will be number one. And for me, especially when I was, you know, starting out and then when I made even, you know, after I had, you know, grown this following and was doing Mike Bakes and YC on the side, I think once it hit me again, once I started to go full time, was not falling into the comparison trap and, like, looking at, you know, either friends that I'm, you know, people I'm friends with that are bloggers or people that, like, I, you know, other bloggers that maybe they don't know who I am or I haven't spoken to them but just admire their work. It was. It was just trying to, like, not fall into, like, oh, my God, like, my photos will never look like that or I will never have, you know, this amount of followers or, you know, whatever it was, and just kind of like focusing on what, what I was doing and, you know, finding my own photography style and, you know, all of those things. I think once I kind of, like, really leaned into that and just kind of focused on, I guess, being so corny to say. And I hate that I'm about to say this, but, like, being my true, authentic self as far as, like, the food blogger world goes, I. That's when I noticed that, like, I was. I was growing. So, like, my, you know, I'm someone. I would say, if anyone who scrolled through my Instagram, my captions are very, I'd say, witty, kind of like a sarcastic person. And I make sure that. That, you know, shows on social media and in my blog posts. And it's. People have responded well to that. I'm just kind of like a casual blogger. I Would say the way that I speak to my audience.

Yeah, yeah.

And that has worked out well for me. But yeah, just I think just like trying to show my audience who I am. I think when I first started out, I was like so focused on the food that I didn't really.

Yeah.

Show too much of myself. And I think that's what made it easier maybe for me to transition from New York City restaurants to my food blogging. Because when I did that, that's when I started showing my face more and, you know, being on stories personally more. Whereas before it would just be like, here's the restaurant I'm at for the day and I would talk, but like I wasn't like showing myself or interacting with the camera or anything.

Yeah.

So that's been, I think, a big, A big thing for me as well.

I was just having this conversation with Lindsay the other night and was talking about the significance of the person in. In social. Instagram, in this case, not all social, I think Instagram. And I was thinking, I was, I was kind of like debating myself and I was like, well, there are these accounts that do really well that don't have like a person behind them. And the example I used was like a sports account like Bleacher Report. But I think what's different with that is what they are publishing content about is people oriented content. Like it's. It's athletes. Or you could use it in the food world too. Like, there might not be a food account that's like super popular, but it's publishing content that maybe showcases people and the significance of both the quality of the content, the recipe, but also that being attached to a person seems like there's something to that. I think people want to follow people, people want to be connected to people, but they also want to follow people who are producing really good things in the world. But if it's just really good things in the world without a person behind it, there's some, there's some type of intrigue that's lost. Like it's the difference between like going to a restaurant and having an amazing meal and watching like sitting at the bar and watching a robot make it. Yeah, you could have the same thing. And if you have this like, chef who is maybe interacting with you and talking with you, they can make the same meal and it feels different. Like, which sounds obvious to state that, but that's a little bit of what I hear you saying and there's a nuance to it. But. But I can track with what you're saying and it makes sense for those who want to follow along. As we're coming to the end here, Mike, can you talk a little bit about, you know, you've mentioned your brand name but where can people find you? Where can people follow along? And maybe as a last thought for those who are in the thick of it, you know, as a, as a fellow creator, what would your encouragement be to them as fellow creators and developers, photographers, whatever, whatever it might be.

Yeah, so I, I am Mike Bakes NYC on literally every social media platform. TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, everything. And my website is mikebakesnyc.com but yeah, for people that are, you know, whether you're just starting out or, you know, you've been doing this for a while. Honestly I think my like number one advice and I think it's, it almost sounds like a no brainer, but like, just focus on the content you're producing. I believe heavily that if you are interested and you enjoy what you're doing and you enjoy the content that you're putting out, like it's work that you're proud of, other people are going to pick up on that. Whether it's your audience, whether it's a brand and they're going to want to interact with you, whether that's following you, engaging with the content, wanting to work with you. If it's a brand, that's, that's essentially when I really sit to like think back and look at what I've done. That's essentially what has happened. I, I say this, people ask all the time, like, how do I pitch brands? And I tell them I'm not the right person to ask because I foolishly did not pitch brands really when I was starting out. I've pitched a total of two brands in my entire blogging career. Now that I have a manager, she pitches me to brands and I now get way more stuff from, you know, not just waiting on brands to contact me, but primarily, you know, up until, you know, I went full time on only focusing on content and waiting for brands to essentially notice me, you know, that sometimes I would tag them on stuff or you know, whatever, but essentially just like working on what I was producing and putting out there and kind of going from there. So that's my number one.

That's awesome. And I feel like if we mentioned it at the beginning and the end of every episode, it still wouldn't be enough. Like, yeah, I think you have to come back to it all the time, that this is the craft, this is what creating and that should be the focus. So I think a great note to end on. Mike, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Really fun to talk with you.

Thank you for having me.

That's a wrap for this episode. Thanks for tuning in. As a reminder, if you haven't yet subscribed to the Food Blogger Pro podcasts, you can do that. I think they actually now call it follow because there's people who are confused and thought if you're subscribing, you have to pay. You don't have to pay for the Food Blogger Pro podcast. You can just follow along and get these episodes every week. If you are looking for a paid option, FoodBlogger Pro membership is the place that you can go. You can check that out@foodbloggerpro.com membership. It's a premium level of information and classes and courses and a forum for food bloggers. We have thousands of people who have been through the Food Blogger Pro courses, or maybe to the point where it's been 10,000 plus people who at some point have been a member and gone through the courses and classes. You can sign up at any point. You can cancel at any point. You don't have to, you know, sign up for a certain period of time. And we've found that people have had huge success with their membership. If they get in, they go through the content and engage with the the community. And you can find out more about other people who have been through it by going to foodbloggerpro.com testimonials. You can see some of the folks that have gone through Food Blogger Pro and some of the things that they have said about it. So be sure to check that out if you're interested in joining. Thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed the episode. We'll be back again next Tuesday with another episode. Until then, hope you can get a tiny bit better every day. Forever. Make it a great week. Thanks.

Sam.