334: Crafting the Perfect Pitch – How to Build and Nurture Strong Relationships with Brands with Chandice Probst

Hello. Hello. This is the food Blogger pro podcast. Today we are interviewing Chandice Probst and she's going to be talking about pitching and how not only kind of a structure for pitching, she's going to be talk through like, hey, step one, here's what you do. Step two, here's what you do. Here's when you talk about rates, here's some ideas about how to figure out what your rate is. But she's also going to be talking about some of her stories of developing her own pitches and how she's used that to get some traction in some different business areas, including a conversation that we'll have right off the bat, which is how she first connected with Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks and billionaire angel investor, which is a really fun story to kick things off with. So if you've ever been interested in sponsoring sponsored content, working with brands, leveling up your ability to kind of do sales and pitching. And also we're going to talk about thinking strategically around the type of work that you want to be doing. And maybe you don't want to be doing sponsored content for your blog, but there's other ways that you can be thinking about pitching yourself and working with different companies and building your business in really strategic ways. So it's a great conversation with Chandice, who has a lot of experience in this. Let's go ahead and jump in. Chandice, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, Bjork. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, usually we do a little bit of a lead in, ask some background questions and just kind of check in a little bit to say like, hey, what's your story? Where are you at? But I want to dive in right away to a story around a name that a lot of people would recognize. As we were kind of getting ready for this, you had mentioned Mark Cuban in working with Mark Cuban or working on a project that he had. My own little Mark Cuban story is I read one of his books and then I emailed him and was like, hey, really enjoyed reading the book. And then like three minutes later he emailed me back and I was like, what the heck? This person is just always working apparently, and really on top of their email. But what was your experience working with Mark Cuban and what's the background with that?

Yes. Oh, I'm so glad he emailed you right back. And that doesn't surprise me. He is a very dedicated, hard working man. Did the email have one sentence with no capitals and. No.

Exactly, exactly.

That's exactly how he would reply to me. And I got really good at. When I would message him, when I'd send him an email, I would get right to the point. He doesn't want to hear the story. I just asked the question that I need answered, and that was how the reply came. So it was really fun. So I actually got diagnosed with celiac disease in 20 2008. I would think right around there. And right away I just wanted to dive into this new lifestyle. I wanted to make sure that I showed people that it was not a terrible thing for me. It was an answer to a lot of years of pain. And one of the things I did after that, as I worked with the Celiac Disease Foundation, I started my first blog, which was. Is a joke now that I go back and look at it.

Sure.

Blogspot.com, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I worked with. I created a company called Gluten Free Calendar. And that was where, you know, for a long time, gluten free was new. There was a lot of events, there was a lot of conferences and a ton of things happening. And so I wanted a place where you could find everything in one place. And my business partner on that, he was also working on Find Me Gluten Free. I don't know if you've heard that business. It's a number one app for finding gluten free restaurants. Oh, cool, Cool. And he had gotten Mark Cuban on for that business. And he's like, hey, let's talk to him about this business. And we did it, and he was excited. And so he joined us. And it was really fun. He joined us kind of as like an angel investor or something like that, I guess. And he was there to just help us answer questions, really, as like a business mentor, if you will. And it was exciting and it was fun to see that press release go out and be like, gluten Free Calendar partners with Mark Cuban. I mean, he's kind of a surreal moment. Moment when for me, I knew that the pitching skills that I had been working on for a long time had paid off.

Yeah, I'm really curious to know. So we've done a couple small angel investments. I'm not like a prolific angel investor, but I know that Mark Cuban is. And a lot of times it'll be deals like that where somebody will pitch him and you'll be like, hey, actually I want to. It's kind of like Shark Tank, but just emails back and forth. Is that essentially what you were doing in that process? You had an idea, you pitched him via email, and then he was like, Yeah, I want to invest a certain amount into the company to help it grow.

Yes.

What happened?

Yeah, it was so great because, I mean, I went to one of his basketball games and I was so excited to meet. I've actually never met him in person.

Sure.

That's how it is with those kind of partnerships. I think you would know. You would probably know that, as most people do, that some of those angel investments, you don't actually work in person with them. You, via email, communicate. And so that's exactly what it was. Is the pitch via email talking? I want to say we had a call, but I don't remember for sure. But most of it was done via email. And then, of course, lawyers.

Yeah. So how did you. You know, on Shark Tank, they always come to the table and they say, you know, for 10% of my company, you can get, you know, and $100,000. Here's what you'll get. So essentially, they're valuing their company at, you know, a million dollars. If you get for a hundred , you get 10%. How did you go about valuing your company at that point? And was there a negotiation with him back and forth on the valuation of.

It? Yeah, there was. I would say a lot of it was done because Find me Gluten Free. My partner, who was a partner over there, they had kind of already done that groundwork over there, and it was more like, hey, I have my partner over here, and she. And I would like for you to talk to you more about Gluten Free Calendar. So the groundwork was kind of already laid. Thank. Good. And it was just like, oh, another fun opportunity. That sounds great. Because at that point, Gluten Free Calendar was brand new. I mean.

Almost. Yeah. No revenue and no. Yeah. So you don't have profit that you can go off of. You can't do, like, a multiple. It's basically investing in you as individuals. And the idea and the market, too. Like, is the market at a point where this could grow into something? So is that company still around? What did that look like? Cause I know a lot of times for an angel investor, there's like a 5%, 2%, 10% chance that it will work out, 90% chance that it won't. Um, what happened with. You mentioned the app is still around, but what happened with Gluten Free.

Calendar? Yeah, the app is huge and it's doing great. And I. That's a hard. You know, for a long time, I didn't really not. You're one of the first places that I've like, talked about this really.

Openly.

Sure. Because for a long time I viewed it as a failure. Like, ah, I failed. I. Business didn't succeed, but it was amazing. And I look at it now. We went and did celiac awareness nights with MLB teams and NBA teams around the nation. I mean, we were on the field with or down on the field at the Dodgers games. We were on the court with LeBron James. Like, it was so fun and doing that to, to really raise awareness for celiac disease and celiac research, because a portion of the ticket sales from that night would go to research. It was incredible. And so I look at it now and I see it for what it was. It was for the opportunity to increase celiac awareness. It was not necessarily meant to be a super profitable business. And that's okay. And my amazing business partner, Abby at Tastemaker, she, she reminded me, she was the one who said, you need to tell this story more because it's not a failure, it is an opportunity that you had to learn and.

Grow. Yeah. And I think, you know, if I were. Occasionally I'll talk about these on, on the podcast, but I have like a really deep filing cabinet of ideas that I pursued that didn't work out. Like, you know, Lindsay and I will joke about all the different ideas and some of them had a lifespan of like 15 minutes where we got like super excited about it and then we kind of talked about the details and then we kind of had this like back and forth where we disagreed. And then we're like, let's just not do this. I talk about the story of this idea of like Brighton Almonds, we were going to call it. We lived in this city called New Brighton. And it was, that was going to be the tie in. And you would also be able to like brighten somebody's day because you'd buy almonds and then you could deliver. Like when you would check out, then you could also do like a gift delivery of a little bag of almonds to somebody else. And the idea being that there'd be like virality within that were like Brighton almonds. We always joke about it because the idea had about like a 15 minute lifespan. But then there's other ones that we've had that, you know, maybe we put in six months of work or a year of work and, you know, kind of got some speed with them and then decided not to or invested substantial amounts of our own money in them. And that's just part of the entrepreneurial journey. Like, you never meet somebody who is going to bat you know, 100% and hit every ball that's thrown at them, to use a sports analogy. But what do you feel like in that process? What were the things that you learned the most? And anything even from Mark in terms of his entrepreneurial insights and, you know, just such a unique person, was there anything that you learned from him and also through the journey of that company.

Itself? Yeah, definitely. And I agree with you. To me, if somebody's batting a hundred, I'm like, what are you not telling.

Us? Right.

Right. And I tell people all the time when we do our stuff with Tastemaker, I say for 10 pitches you send out, you may get one yes made. And that's how it works, because your prices should be where they should be. And if they are, if they're. If you're getting a ton of yeses, then you've priced your work too low. So I agree with you there. I just wanted to say that I think the biggest thing that I learned from Mark is really just, just get to the point. Like, let's, let's figure. I think that that was a big eye opener for me because I love to talk about everything and love to tell the story. And I've heard that many times on the blog. Right. From a lot of people is just get to the recipe. I don't want to hear the story. And so it's been fun for me to still tell a little story about recipes that I love, but then really help them troubleshoot the recipe. How can I make this better? Can I make it dairy free? Whatever it means for, for the reader. So putting your, your customer, your brand that you're working with your reader first and getting to the point and helping them meet their needs. It's a really selfless thing in business, and I, I really like that. I thought that was a good lesson to.

Learn. Yeah. How do you, as much as possible, think about what other people need and get there as quickly as you can? I think that's a great, A great takeaway. So what did that pitch, original pitch, look like? I know there's a little connection there because your business partner had already kind of pitched and worked with him before. And we'll use that as a transition to kind of talk about pitching in general and how bloggers, influencers, creators can think about pitching themselves to all sorts of different people. It might be a lot of times we talk about brands, but it might be investors, it might be cookbook deals. So what did that original pitch look like to Mark for that idea? And then let's talk about Pitching in general how people can do.

That. Well, yeah, well. And like I said, there was already kind of that tie. But then from there, we had to hold our ground. I mean, you've got this incredible person here. In business, you have to hold your ground to know your value, too. I'm not going to give away 50%, 51% of our company because then we lose. We lose the primary shareholder thing. So. And I'm not really great at all the.

Business. Sure. Yeah. But like, they talk about that on Shark. Shark Tank. Such a great platform to have those conversations because it's the real business considerations. And to your point, if you give somebody 51% of the company, then they. And they're the primary owner, like, they get to make the decisions then. So if you don't agree with something, suddenly you can't say no, I don't want that to happen. Because they'll say, well, if we're going to vote on this, and I vote yes and you vote no, then I still win because I have 51% of the.

Company. Yes. And I think that's important for anybody to remember is that you've created something, it's yours, and to hold. Stand to that or hold strong to that, whether it's an incredible celebrity or just. Just a brand or whoever that you're working with, know that your. Your value is in your idea and that you should maintain that if possible. So I would recommend that. And then going into, you know, going into pitching with that, is that you're like. Like you said, there's so many ways we have to get out of this box, this little box of I can only work with sponsors. There are so many ways to diversify your income. So I basically have. No, not that I have no fear. I have fear, but not much. And so I'll pitch myself for lots of different things, you know, and yeses and nos are always coming. But another thing I wanted to do is I wanted to create a cookbook. My mom and I got diagnosed with celiac disease three months apart, and she's one of my very best friends. And I was like, we need to write a cookbook. Because we jumped right in. For us, it wasn't a woe is me kind of thing. We were like, thank goodness we have an answer for our pain, you know, And I said, we need to create a cookbook, Mom. We've been doing this for years, and the recipes are great. And I didn't even know that I did it wrong, that you're supposed to go through certain channels. I Just put together a really beautiful proposal and I sent it to my cousin who got her degree in English, and I said, will you just edit this for me? And she's like, sure. And then I pitched ourselves to publishing houses. I really didn't realize that there was. You're supposed to have an agent in.

Between. You acted as the agent, essentially.

Yeah. I was like, you know, let's just do this. What do we have to lose? And eventually we got picked up and it was by a smaller publishing house. But it was really exciting because we didn't have to pay the fees for our book to be published. And we did a book tour with Barnes and Noble and it was super fun. But I think a lot of the thing is to have to have gumption, to have confidence. If you are confident in what you are selling, then the person on the other end is already going to feel that.

Enthusiasm. Yeah. So my question would be, what if you aren't confident? Like, because I think for some people, maybe comes naturally. Like, an example is I'm super comfortable, confident, whatever the word might be. Doing a podcast, like getting on a call with somebody I've never met, talking to them for like 45 seconds to 3 minutes and then pressing record and having a conversation for an hour. For a lot of people, they would think, ah, like, that sounds terrible. And I would dread it. I wouldn't know what I was going to say. I'd want to have kind of an outline written out. Whereas for me, it's like, I don't know what I'm going to say in two minutes. And I'm super comfortable with that. And I think for some people, they're not. I think my question is, how much of that is who you are versus how much of that can you coach? And the question after that is then, do you play to your strengths or are there ways that you can kind of move into confidence around.

Pitching? Absolutely. Well, that's one of the things that we talk about is mindset, because first, that's the first thing you need to work on. I would not recommend pitching and doing all these things until you've figured out your mindset and the best way to do that. I think that a lot of it is your personality, but I can promise you that you can coach it because we just did a little mastermind weekend retreat for Tastemaker and there are some women who weren't as confident, but by the end they were sending pitch emails and they're getting replies and they're like, I have a call next week. Ah. And I'M like, you're gonna do great. And we had originally told them, you know, if you want me to be on the call, I'm happy to act as your agent. And they're like, you know, I think I can do this, and it makes me so happy. And we took the time to work on Mindset. So the biggest thing is deep down in all of us, we have confidence. We just have to find it. And part of finding it is asking yourself, what lights you up? What lights you up? If you are pitching yourself to work with a brand and you hate working with brands, that's not going to light you up and you are not going to be confident. So figure it out. Maybe what it is is photography lights you up. You are just an incredible photographer and you are actually very confident in your abilities as a photographer. But then maybe as a human being out in the world, you're a little more shy and that's okay. But when you're behind a camera, you are confident. So then what you need to do is figure out how you can use that talent that you are confident in to pitch. I, for example, hey, I see that on your website, you have a beautiful recipe library, but you have no photos. That's where I come in. I'm really great at photography. I'm not saying for me, because sure, sure.

Yeah. Example.

Yeah. But that this is where I come in to help you. I'm great at photography and we've learned that people read or experience through their eyes first. So let me help you with that. So that would be a great way. And same with, if you know that you are not good on camera, do not pitch yourself to TV stations. You know, yeah, I'm like you, where I don't know what I'm going to say in two minutes. And that's how I work best. In fact, when I write out a script, I stumble on my words. I don't. And so TV is my favorite because you've got three minutes and there's no redos. You are live and it's so fun and I can feel like the adrenaline rushing and I love it. It really is like a.

Drug. Yeah. So part of it, it sounds like, is self awareness around how you operate where you are best. And for some of us, we might be getting into this and we might not have those skills refined to the point where we do feel confident enough, which I think is worth acknowledging. Everybody's not going to be at that point. There will be a lot of people who will be able to say, here's what I do. Here's what I do really well. But there might be some people who are in the early stages and you still need to refine those skills to a certain point to get to the place where like, yes, you can shoot video, you can shoot photography at this level. Um, but there's really a fine balance between waiting to the point where you're the ultimate expert and just moving forward on something and saying, you know what, I'm going to do this. So do you have any advice for people who are trying to figure out, number one, what does light me up? I think some people know, but other people might not know. And then number two, at what point are you ready to say, you know what? I'm going to move into pitching myself in this area that lights me.

Up? Yeah, definitely. Well, and I would suggest doing the. Doing an activity. So put a pen and paper in front of you and write down many things that light you up. Not just in your business, but other things, serving others. Whatever it is, whatever it is that lights you up, talking or, I don't know, sewing, anything that lights you up, write it down and then funnel that in to see how that could work for your business. Maybe you really don't want to be in front of anybody. And you are an incredible writer. There are so many people who need ghostwriters, so that's a great way to do that. So not everything has to be front and center and in the camera and working with brands, there's a lot of opportunity there. So I would recommend that first, then moving it. And just like you said, at some point you have to move forward. You really do. And so when you have a couple things that you know, okay, this is something I could do, then it's having the confidence to say, now which are the ideal brands I'd like to reach out to about this. And sometimes that does take one on one coaching. And I, and I'm meaning like with a friend, ask a blogger friend who you know in the community and say, what are my strengths? It's okay to ask. I would love to know from the outside looking in what you think my strengths are, where you think I could.

Shine. Yeah, that's great. One of the tools that we've been using a lot internally with our team that would maybe help facilitate this is called delegate and Elevate. It's actually a part of eos, which is entrepreneurial operating system. And they have a bunch of kind of tools that they do. So we'll link to this in the show notes. But if anybody just were to search, delegate and elevate PDF. And it's four quadrants and it's not, it's, it's kind of related, it's not exactly the same. But the top left quadrant is love slash great. The top right is like slash good. The bottom left is don't like good and the bottom right is don't like not good. What's different here is like it's talking about not only what are the things that you need to stop doing, but what are the things that you need to do more of. And it kind of relates to this in that it's a facilitated exercise for you to think about. Great. What are all the things that I'm doing and what are the things that I, that I'm great at and I really love doing? And there's probably going to be a few of those things. And as much as possible, how do you spend as much of your time doing those things? And you know, related to this, like, then how do you stop doing the things that you don't like doing and you're not good at? Especially those are the most important to stop doing. So let's say you get to that point, you've, you've distilled it down to maybe a few different things. You're, you know, a writer, a photographer, you love video, you love editing, whatever it might be, you love tech and Google Analytics. So you're going to focus on that and helping brands there. But you don't have any clients. Nobody's actually paying you to do that stuff. Next step, it sounds like, is thinking through who are some of the brands that I want to work with. So you're kind of creating this ideal client list. But then what does it look like to actually start to form relationships with those brands? And do you need to like stair step your way up where you work with brands that maybe or companies that aren't as good of a fit in pursuit of like the ideal brand. Or do you think it's possible to kind of make a connection? I suppose a lot of it depends on who that brand is. But how do people actually start to get paid for the thing that they want to get paid.

For? Yeah, definitely. Well, I think the first thing. So let's say you've narrowed it down like you've said, to what you love. The next step is you're really going to need to create your media kit. And the reason being is because this will again build your confidence. So for example, when we ask people to gather all their numbers and they're like, I only have 400 followers on Instagram. Nobody's going to hire me. And then we see their numbers and they have 150,000 users a month on their blog. We're like, what? Yeah, doing so good. And they. But they've gotten into this mentality of the world, says I have to have 100,000 Instagram followers. No one cares. Like, it's fine. You don't have to use that platform. You have a beautiful blog that people are visiting so regularly. And so putting those numbers there on your media kit and you go, hey, yeah, I am. This is something I'm good at. Finding some testimonials, asking somebody else and putting those things on there, putting photos of your work, it really combined. I would stick to two pages if you can. It really puts everything into perspective of your work and how you are talented at it. So. And plus, you don't want to be pitching until you have your media kit because if you've pitched correctly, they're going to likely come back to you pretty quickly. And you don't want to be like, ah, now I have nothing. So next step is media kit. Work on a really beautiful media kit that includes your numbers and lets them shine. If you have 200 followers on Instagram, don't put that on there. You don't have to. You make your own media kit how you want. You don't have to.

Do. You highlight the things that you're good at and craft it in a way where it's not only pointing to the things that you're good at, but pointing to the things that you want to be doing. We have worth mentioning for any Food Blogger Pro members, we have a course on a media kit, how to go through that and build that. But for those who haven't gone through that process or maybe have one and want to refine it and make it better. What would your recommendations be for things that are most important to include and maybe things to not include that you oftentimes see as a part of a media.

Kit. Yeah, well, we just spent the weekend doing this and it was so fun because everyone came with their media kits and it was so fun to like tweak them. And a lot of it is about instead of. It tends to be that media kits are like, me, me, me, look at me. And really, if you're from the get go, if you're like, this is how I'm here to help you, your media kit is going to be so much more well received because it's not just a me show, it's how Can I help you achieve your goals? This is how I have these users who are focused on gluten free recipes and gluten free living. I see that you're a gluten free brand. This is my reader. This is the audience really focusing outwards on how you're helping them achieve their goals and how your audience helps them achieve those.

Goals. How much would you ever suggest tweaking your media kit based on conversations you've had with a brand? Or for the most part, are you seeing a media kit that looks the same.

Regardless? Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think it's mainly the same media kit. But I recommend having a media kit and a rate sheet so you don't put your numbers on the media kit. For example, I had a friend who was working with a company and she said, and they were excited, they were getting ready to go. And she said, okay, well, what's your budget? Because she had been in sales and she learned that the first person to give a number.

Loses.

Sure. They would say. And so she said, so what's your budget? And her price was, let's say $1,200. And they said, well, we have $5,000 to work with. And she's like, great, let's create that package. She would have lost out on $3,800 if she would have just put that on there. And so I think that that's important and that kind of will lead into the next thing that we talk about. But have a media kit that highlights how your audience will help them achieve their goals and what you are good at in a non me, me, me sort of way and pick and choose. You do not have to put Instagram followers if you don't have an Instagram following and then have a rate sheet and have them kind of say starts at whatever. And then when you work with a brand, that media or that rate sheet is going to change based on their.

Budget. Yeah. So how do you. This is the question that comes up all the time. And I'm sure that you hear it all the time. How do you know how much to charge? Like gas prices? You can drive down the street and you're like, okay, here's what the gas prices are. A gallon of milk. You can see what a gallon of milk is. You can't really see what other bloggers are charging. And so it's hard to know what's happening unless you're a brand and you see all of the different rate sheets and what people are charging. So how do you know if you're within the realm of appropriate versus way too low versus too high. What are your recommendations for.

People? Well, the sad thing is, no, we can't see that, but we should. More. I think we need to open up the blogging community. We need to. This is where we come back to mindset. We all need to open our minds to abundance mentality versus scarcity mentality. There is enough to go around. I love sharing a brand that I've worked with with a friend, and being like you would be a perfect fit for them. And when I do that, the brand definitely looks at me different when I say, hey, I have this friend Lindsay over, you know, at. And she's incredible and you're going to love her. And I just thought you guys would be a good fit. I don't know if it's going to work, but I wanted to introduce you. It just changes the way everybody works and operates if you work in this community of no, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine serve you. And there's plenty to go around. So I would preface by saying I think we should share more so that we kind of know a baseline, and that's where having amazing blogger friends come into play. So Erin from Meaningful Eats is like one of my best friends in real life, and we met through the blogger world and we share these things together. We're like, what are you charging? What are you doing? And then we have a couple other friends that we do that with. And it's been so helpful because then all of us. And I love, I'm sure you know, Sam from frosting and fettuccine. She's like, listen, you're not doing any of us any favors if you're undercharging what we're all charging. It's not fair. And we're all in this together, so let's all charge what we're worth. And I love Sam for that. And that's the thing, is have a few blogger friends that you can ask and say, what are you charging? We're about the same. We're kind of in the same. What are you charging? And let's all get on the same level so that when brands work with us, they're like, oh, they're all charging the.

Same. Yeah, that, that there's not a huge difference in terms of somebody coming in really low. Somebody coming in really high. You had mentioned doing a mastermind. I think that's a great example of a way to do that and facilitate that for people who maybe have this question around, like, how do I connect with people and actually make that happen. How do I get a group of people where we all share information about how we're doing things? Can you talk a little bit about that? I know that you're tied in with Abby and Tastemaker. We had a conversation with Abby kind of about the conference world and education and things like that. But is that a part of Tastemaker? And if people want to learn more about that, specifically, where can they find out about.

That? Yeah, for sure. Well, I feel like, if anything, if the only thing I ever got out of my blogging career are two of my best friends in the.

World.

Yeah. I've achieved. It's wonderful. That's it. I'm done.

Okay.

Yeah. Women are my real life best friends. I talk to them all the time. And it's about blogging stuff. Yes. But it's also about everything else. So I will tell you when Abby and I met. This is what is so crazy. So Abby and I are business partners at Tastemaker, and I am the sponsor director over there. Erin and I had met at a conference and just had so much fun, and we traveled to Expo west together, and she said, oh, my gosh, I have this friend Abby, that is darling, and you two would love each other. I want you guys to meet. And Abby and I met, and immediately it was like. Then we worked with Tastemaker, but it was literally this beautiful triangle of, like, one of my blog friends opening up again. Abundance, mentality, sharing, and saying, here's another friend that I think you'd connect well with. And then Abby and I connected. So go to conferences. I'll put that plug in there. Because we've seen so many relationships built at a physical conference. Because, yeah, I mean, I don't know about you, but I have incredible friends from before my blogging days, but they don't care about my blog. They don't want to talk about it, and that's okay. I talk to them about other things.

Too. Okay. And sometimes.

Nice. Yeah, sometimes nice. And be like, oh, I'll talk about that. But it's a huge facet of my life. And so I do love sharing that. And so go to a conference and make friends. I just talked to darling Alexandria from the Foreign Fork, and she said she. Because Marco Polo is, like, the thing for all of us now. Right? That's how we.

Communicate.

Yeah. But he has this group on Marco Polo of blogger friends, and they bounce ideas and talk and all of those things. And I said, where did you meet them? And she said, at the first Tastemaker conference. It was a moment where Abby and I were like, everything we've wanted to achieve is happening. Women. These women are connecting. And it was because on the Facebook group, someone said, hey, we have an extra room. Who wants to stay? None of them knew each other, but they stayed in a house. They put themselves out there, and they stayed in a house together. And now they're best blogging.

Friends. Cool. Yeah, that's.

Great. The retreats, which. All of that is available. So Tastemaker conferences in March in Chicago, and then we have twice a year, usually we have a weekend retreat at our headquarters in Virginia. And it's only for about eight people, but, man, those people.

Connect. Yeah, really connect. And I've noticed that as I've been part of different groups, those connections are some of the most valuable connections. You learn things for sure, but it's almost like the connections and the relationships lead to you learning from being close to somebody, working alongside them, doing similar things, as opposed to, like, this really specific thing that you gather around to learn. You will learn in that moment. But it's those relationships that are truly valuable, both personally and within business. So you had talked about a couple different things that will really help close deals. And I think that's part of what is interesting in this conversation of pitching is, you know, we talk about media kits. People are familiar with those. Maybe a rate sheet. People are familiar with those. In terms of setting your rate, being connecting to groups of people, and sharing, like, hey, where are you at? How do you go about, you know, setting your rate? And with that, there's a. The obvious reality that it really depends on where you're at in your life cycle for blogging. And so that's why it's important to have people that you can connect with and kind of get an understanding of where you are compared to where they are. But how about, like, just getting to the point where you have success closing a deal? You get to the point where you sign on the dotted line and you have a relationship with a brand or a sponsor or working relationship. What are some other kind of tips and takeaways that people could have that will help them be more successful in closing more.

Deals? Okay, well, if it's okay with you, can we back up just a little? Because this is my favorite part. This is the part that lights me up that I get, great, let's do it. And it's. I tell everybody, and a lot of it's my personality, but it's not just my personality, because I've seen very quiet, shy people who have had the same success as I had. I said get on a call. So you're not going to do your. Your pitch is literally. So the first step would be reaching out to them on Instagram or social media and saying two lines. I have a really fantastic idea. I'd love to talk to you more. Where's the best email I can send more information? Super simple. Step one. Step two, send that email to that email address. When they reply again, no more than three sentences, maybe four. And it's literally just a. You want to give them a juicy, juicy bait that they. Juicy, juicy bait that they can't resist. Something small of. I have this amazing idea with your buckwheat flour to create a buckwheat breakfast casserole. It's going to be delicious. And I have a couple more ideas I would love to send you more. I would love to get on a call. Can we talk sometime this week? That is my. So that number one. Number two, that's number two. I don't say anything about media kits. I don't say anything there. I say, I'd love to get on a call and talk to you more. I close 80% of the deals that I do when I have a phone call, versus 20% with cold emails. So that's why I encourage everybody to get on a call or a zoom meeting where they can see you and you can paint a picture that they cannot refuse. That's your time to get on and say, okay, this is such an amazing product and I use it all the time. I know my readers would love it and they would especially love to see it in some holiday recipes in quarter four. And so really just creating this picture that they're like, I had no idea I even needed that. Yes, yes, of course. We want to work with.

You at that point. Have you talked about rates? Do you know if they have a budget that. That hasn't come up.

Yet? No. No. Because what happens is. So step one, you're getting the information. Step two, you're emailing. @ that point, if they have no budget, usually they let you know. They'll say, I'm happy to hop on a call with you, but I want you to know that we have no budget whatsoever. If they have any budget and you get on a call, you're going to be the one to get the rest of.

That.

Budget. Sure. That of the time, if you know. And so most of the. There's few that will not get on a call and it's because they have no budget. But if you put them on a call, they're interested because they have some budget and they have some needs that need to be filled.

And that's. And at that point, then you're. So you're having this conversation, you've convinced them of the idea. Hey, generally speaking, this is what I'm going to talk about. This is what I'm going to share with my audience. Here's the size of my audience. And then to your point earlier, like, first one to share a number loses. How then do you facilitate that conversation after you've convinced somebody this is a great idea, but eventually you have to get around to talking.

About numbers. Right. So how that call looks is you're just. And I would recommend hopping on the call first and just being like, hi, Sarah, I'm so excited to chat with you. I have so many fun ideas. But first I want to ask you what are some of your marketing goals for Q4? I know that it's a time of year for holiday recipes, but I'd love to hear more from you. Giving them the opportunity to share with you their goals so that then the next part of your pitch, and this takes practice, is catering what they just told you. So maybe say we are actually really focusing on quick and easy recipes that don't require any baking. No bakery. Perfect. That sounds great. And come to the table with a few of those ideas that maybe you'd think that they would have so that then you could hurry and adjust. Excellent. I totally understand. Obviously this wouldn't work for Flower, but for something else. Yes, I have a fantastic idea for that. And then you go on for that. Then to facilitate the money talk, you'd say, so I think these things will definitely help you achieve your goals, especially, especially where my audience is your target audience. So I'd love to talk to you more about what you think. What are your thoughts on that? What does your budget allow for this?

Right now? It's interesting. I don't remember where I had this conversation. I'm going through a course right now called Growth University. It's kind of for like, marketing and growth tactics for businesses. It might have been within this, but it was somebody talking about these conversations and kind of positioning yourself within these. And they were saying in, in those conversations, you'll just ask somebody, like, what are your needs? They'll tell you. And then essentially what you do is in that conversation you say, here's my idea and here's how it'll help achieve those goals. Which is like, it sounds so obvious, but it's, it's really helpful for you to not Assume you know what somebody wants, but to actually get that information from them while they're giving that to you. Genuinely and authentically thinking about how can the things that I do help meet the goal. And then just repeat that back and say, great, here's what I heard you say, here's what we can do, and here's how that will help you do this thing that you had said is important to you. And again, it sounds so, so basic, but it's. It's framing the conversation around what somebody else needs as opposed to what you need or what you think that they need. How often in that conversation would you say you hear something and it's like, actually, I can't.

Do that. I think not very often, because I feel like there's always something that you.

Can.

Offer. Sure. For example, this happened yesterday. And I love what you said about that because that's exactly what we do, is we ask their needs. We have. And that again, that takes practice. We did a lot this week, this last weekend in Virginia, we did mock phone calls. And they were like, I don't know what to say. Tell me what to say.

Right now. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Through what to say in that moment. Like, because I responded how a brand would. And they're like, I wasn't expecting that now what?

And that. What's an example.

Of that? So, for example, I said something about like, oh, you know, we don't have a lot of budget, but we, we definitely do, like working with bloggers. But we're only looking to do. We're only looking to do, for example, like vegan recipes or something. And maybe you're not a vegan blog. Then you. Then they're like, wait, ha. And then you just say, awesome. I think it's really great to do Meatless Mondays. And this is one of the ideas that I have. Just fire that off. But it's hard. And so what I would say is, before one of those calls prep with some ideas, you could go with that. And again, it takes practice. And I've done a couple mock calls with some of the girls since then, and now they're so confident and they're feeling really good. It's not me. It's not me. I want to say that I want. It's because they are building confidence.

In themselves. Sure. Yeah, it's both. And I'm sure that, that what they're learning from you, you're being humble in it. But the other to your point around practice is I think a lot about this idea of tools in your tool belt And I think when we go into some of those early calls, you kind of are going in without any tools in your tool belt. For a long time it was probably like three, four years I would do programs with schools, so this was completely unrelated to anything that we would do. It was at a non profit. And with fourth and fifth graders is this thing called a kindness retreat. And we'd go in and we'd talk essentially about like as a fourth grader, as a fifth grader, how can you be kind to your classmates. And we talked about different ways that you could do that. It was really fun all day retreat. But you can imagine like for fourth graders there's all of the, there's this huge spectrum of things that you might encounter in a day. Like weird things that they would say or like weird ways that they would interact with you. And at first going into those, I'd be really nervous because I wouldn't, you know, something would happen, it would throw me off, I wouldn't know how to respond. But after doing it for two years, you start to develop these tools that then you can pull out really easily and be like, you know, if, if somebody, a kid runs up and punches you in the knee, like first time that happens I'd be like, I don't know what to do. But like the 10th time that would happen. That didn't actually happen 10 times. But like then you have this tool in your tool belt that you know how to respond. And I feel like calls like that are similar where what's hard is on the first one you're going in without any tools. And how great to have practice sessions where you can start to figure out what those tools are so you can pull those out as needed. So maybe a good takeaway there is to do those practice sessions how. Yeah.

Go ahead. Anybody in your community, if you want to reach out, just say, Chandas, I want you to do a practice call with me. I'm happy to.

Help you. Yeah, that's, that's great. One of the questions that I had was around working with a brand, a sponsor. Once you make that connection, how much of the selling then changes to ongoing relationship? Great. You have this person now, you want to stay connected with them moving forward versus how much are you seeing of this might apply to Tastemaker as well, but also within your own blog and the work that you're doing, how much of it is you're starting with a blank slate every year and you're having to re pitch people versus after a few years you kind of develop relationships with certain people and can continue those relationships. Do you have any thoughts on that in terms of retaining sponsorships or brands on an ongoing basis when.

You get to work with somebody long term? Because then you can, you know, it takes how many times of mentioning something from an influencer or a blogger before your listeners say, I know she loves that brand. She talks about it all the time. And I love to let the brands know that, that working together on one off is fine, but working together on a three to five grouping partnership will definitely drive that goal home that you have for your marketing team and your marketing needs. So like with Tastemaker, the first year obviously was a lot of. I mean, nobody even knew who we were. And so people, for example, a brand like mediavine, they've been with us from day one and they love a certain sponsorship, but this last year they were like, let's try something different. And it was really fun to say, yeah, let's do that. And let's kind of tweak the needs that you have this year and help you achieve them through this sponsorship rather than this one that we've been doing. And it's really fun because then you definitely get to know the brand and their needs. So one of the ways to get to get those is to have a really beautiful. And Abby is the queen at this. I did not, not pass math very well. Like barely is not mine. My meanwhile as an honors English and things like that. But.

Math.

No. Yeah. So Abby always says it's really important after you do a partnership of any kind to come back with a. Oh, goodness, what's.

It called? It's a, like a recap essentially of.

Yeah, yes. And it has numbers like the reach for this and the. And this. And. And then you pull, you know, when people leave comments, like on your sponsored post, you pull those and you put them in it as like testimonials, if you will, or interactions. And she has a really great one laid out that we have in the Tastemaker community. I'm sure we can ask her where it is and link to it, but it's great. And by sending that, it's not just like, hey, thanks, I had fun. Like, yeah. It's saying my community was engaged with the work that we did together. And I think so then you have an opportunity to pitch again. So when you send that reply, that follow up, we called an event report for Tastemaker. Sorry, I was trying to think what it's called. Yeah, yeah, an event report. And we show everything. And then that's a great time for me. To say, this was such a successful event in Chicago. We had a blast. The next one is coming up, and as you know, the sooner you sign on, the longer you get exposure for your brand. So I would love to talk, to set up a call to talk about your goals for 2022 so we can get thinking about the 2023 conference. So when you send that, that's a great time to do a tiny little pitch about a continued partnership. And again, it's making it about them rather than about you. You know, thanks for your money. Bye. No, it's. Here's how we helped you achieve your goals, and here's how I think we can help you continue to achieve them. Let's work together on.

More things. That's great. And I think that's where you can tie back to that first conversation or the early conversations you had around what their goals were, and then to be able to bring that back around and say, hey, I know your goals were this, and I told you I'd be able to help in this way. Here's evidence of that actually happening. I'll do a little shout out to my friend Bruno, who has a company called Influence Kit. And what they do is they do kind of reports that round up in an automated way so they tie in. Like if you have an Instagram post, you put the URL in and then you can see, here's the engagement rate, here's the views. So if people are looking to do that. Yeah, in an automated way. I can make a connection. If you, if you want to connect with Bruno, but to the thing that I like about that is, not only are you kind of fulfilling what is not a promise, but an obligation to help people with the goals that they had. But it's also one of the best ways to open up the conversation to your point about looking ahead and saying, like, great, hey, we did this high five. What does it look like to then do this again? What are your goals in the next year? When would it make sense to have another conversation? Do you see those having kind of a similar success rate where. Or a similar. Not success rate, but similar process where you say, hey, we closed this out. Awesome. Do you want to jump on a call and like, talk about the next thing? Or is it like, hey, let me know when you're ready to have another conversation? You know, what is the. What is the rhythm for those follow ups after you close out one kind.

Of deal? Yes, I would say. I wouldn't say, do you want to? Or let me know when you're Ready? I'd say I have some openings next week. Here's three dates. Which of these works for you to hop on a call and just kind of recap this really successful partnership? I know it's not called that. Really. Campaign. Yeah, really successful campaign. Because I have some really great ideas for the coming months and that kind of lets them know, oh, yeah, yeah, we probably should do that. Okay. And then they're willing to get on a call again, a need that they maybe didn't know they had, that needs to be fulfilled. Then when you hop on that call, that's a good time to just do a little recap. Like, this was so great. You should have seen some of these comments I'm sure you saw in the recap. And there was even more. But they loved this recipe or whatever. And then say, okay, well, now we're moving into the next, you know, few months and I. And come with ideas to that meeting. Like, I've thought about some great things for Easter or whatever and come with those. And that's a great time then to also pitch beyond what you've already done. So, for example, one of the brands that I'm working with, they're getting ready to do a media blitz, and I live in their area and we've worked together for a long time, and I. They know I love tv and I'm like, yes, let's do a media blitz day. And that's a great time to pitch things. Like, hey, in addition to doing these sponsored posts, I see that again, your recipe library is lacking. I'd love to also create some photos for the current recipes you already have. And that's really great to let them know that you have more skillset than what you've.

Just done. Yeah. The media blitz is essentially, you'll go on tv.

Representing them. Yeah, yeah. Radio. It's super fun. And a lot of brands, again, they don't know they need that. And so you're the one who's like, put that bug in their ear. You know, I've. I've done some media blitz days before or I've done some tv and I love it and it's super fun. I think this would be a great time to really get your brand out there on a.

Different level. Yeah, that's awesome. We could dive deep into a lot of these different topics. We could go on for hours, I'm sure. And as I'm sure happens in some of the masterminds and the calls that you do. Um, but need to wrap up. I'm. I'm Betting a lot of people after this conversation would say, you know what, I want to learn more. I want to dive a little bit deeper. I want to understand this better. And I know we've. We talked to Abby about Tastemaker so you can talk a little bit about Tastemaker. Would love for you to share a little bit about your site where people can find you and then also like, best way to continue the conversation. What would that.

Look like? Yeah, definitely. So my blog is this vivacious life and I probably should do an extension on there where we do some more of these one on one things. So I'll work on that. But in the meantime, just send me an email or an Instagram message and just say, chandice, I listen to your. The podcast with Bjork. I listened to it and I'd love to do a call with you. Let's do a mock phone call. I would be happy to help you. I think that would be great. So you can just reach out to me through this.

Vivacious life. Awesome. That's great. Thanks for coming on and thanks for your willingness to help people chant us and really fun to connect and chat for.

A bit. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It was fun to just visit. It was just like visiting with.

A friend. Well, it's great. Thanks.

So much.

Thank you. That's a wrap for this episode with Chandice. Thanks so much for listening to this podcast for following along. We couldn't do it without you. As always, if you want to check out the show notes, you can go to foodbloggerpro.com podcast. The great thing about that site is you can search really easily. Search. This is something the Food Blogger Pro team has worked on all different categories. So I'm actually talking to you now as I'm looking at my screen and searching through the Food Blogger Pro podcasts and blog posts. And you can search for, let's say within the past month a podcast episode that mentions Instagram. And so you can start to do these really strategic filtering processes where. Or searches I guess is a better word, where you're able to find the thing that you're most interested in. So usually people will listen to a podcast and they'll just listen in the order that it comes out, which is great. But also maybe you're kind of in the realm of thinking about SEO. You can go to foodablockerpro.com and search SEO content and find all the different podcast episodes over the last three months where we've talked about SEO. Or maybe you want to see any of the blog posts that we've published that talk about SEO, most recently in SEO content that we've Some SEO content we've published on the blog is what to update when republishing content as a food blogger. So in October, we published this blog post that talks about all of the different considerations around republishing and how you can be strategic with that. So make sure to go over and check that out. We live and operate in lots of different places, not just the blog. You can find us, obviously on foodblockerpro.com, you can find us on Instagram, or you can follow along here on the podcast, which we appreciate as well. So, as always, thanks for tuning in. Our hope is that we can help you get a tiny bit better every day, forever, and we'll continue to put out content in service of that mission. Make it a great week. Thanks.