353: Getting the Most Out of Pinterest as a Content Creator in 2022 with Jane Ko

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Foreign.

Hey, hey, hey.

This is Bjork.

You're listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. Today we are interviewing Jane Ko from A Taste of Coco. She's going to be talking about what it's like to be a creator focused on a certain area. She really grew her brand, her following, and her social profiles by talking about what it's like to do all things food in the city of Austin. And we're also gonna be talking about kind of what it's like for her from a business perspective. Where, where is she earning revenue? Where are the places she's focusing on? We're gonna be talking about Pinterest and strategies behind Pinterest and working with brands, all of these things that are important for anybody who's looking to build a following online and finding ways to create income from that, which Jane has done through lots of hard work. And she's gonn about where she focuses and kind of the areas that are most impactful for her as well. It's a great interview and fun to be able to talk to somebody who kind of takes a different spin. It's not a recipe site in the same way that a lot of creators like Pinch of Yum are creating content, but instead talking about kind of what a certain area has to offer. And that area is Austin, which is a really cool city.

So that makes it fun as well.

Hey, before we jump into the interview, I wanted to give you a quick heads up about some things that are happening at Food Blogger Pro. We have a Pinterest course coming out for members. It's launching on April 21st. It also has a strategy lesson with Kate, all from Simple Pin Media, and lots of lessons to really walk you through Idea Pins, video, PINS analytics, and the updated course. It'll give you more info about what you need to be thinking about and doing on Pinterest. As a food blogger, things have really evolved on that platform and we wanted to reflect that in the content that we are producing on Food Blogger Pro. So you can go to foodbloggerpro.com join to learn more about how you can sign up, become a member, and kind of double click on the things that we are talking about and learning about.

Here on this podcast.

So if you're ready to go a little bit deeper, a membership would be a great thing that you can check out. This interview is going to be a great one and excited to share it with you. So let's go ahead and jump into this conversation with Jane from A Taste of Cocoa. Coco. Welcome to the podcast.

Hi. I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah, your name came up because we.

Were doing a live Q and A with Kate, all from simplepin Media, and she was like, coco is doing really good work on Pinterest and like, anytime that that comes up, like our team, me, whoever it might be, will like, hey, Star, this person's name like guests for the podcast. So we want to talk about Pinterest for this episode, but before we do that, uh, I'd be.

I'd be interested to hear a little bit about your story because you're doing a type of publishing that we don't.

Have an opportunity to talk to people a lot about on this podcast.

And it's, it's kind of touches a.

Lot of different things, but a lot.

Of it is around like, hey, if.

You'Re going to this city, Austin, but you know, other cities as well, here.

Are the things that you should do.

Here are the experiences that you should have.

So when, when you're in an elevator.

And somebody's like, hey, nice to meet you, stranger, what do you do? How do you describe it to them?

I always say, I'm a food blogger based In Austin, however, I know the industry calls us influencers. They now call us creators. I also have also friends that work in advertising. They're like, you're not a food blogger anymore. Don't put yourself in that corner. You're a lifestyle brand.

Yeah.

So I would say, like, pretty much all of that kind of is what I've been doing.

Yep. In terms of, like, the actual content that you're producing, like, when you. When you sit down and you have a week ahead of you, you're planning out the content that you're doing, whether it be on Instagram, Pinterest, on your blog. What type of content is it? The majority of the content is what type of content?

At this point, I would say I'm still very restaurant focused. So when people think food blog, I think like, oh, recipes, you must do a lot of cooking at home. So. So, no, I actually don't. I hardly cook at home. I try to avoid that at all costs. I do primarily restaurant coverage here in Austin. That's kind of how I got my name. I was the first restaurant. Seven years now, have covered hundreds and hundreds of restaurants to the point where I think most people who are living here in Austin or visiting Austin usually will come across the name of Taste of Cocoa, whether it's on Google, Pinterest or Instagram or TikTok now. So that's kind of how I got my name. And still primarily my focus is still restaurant content.

Sure. So you'll go. That new restaurant will come in. You'll go in, you'll review that restaurant. One of the things that happened to me this was maybe five years ago is at some meetup in Seattle, and it was somebody who used to be a food writer. And she would talk about how she would go in and she'd have a notepad underneath the table so nobody could see that she was a food reviewer. And she'd be able to write notes without looking at it. And it was super secretive. What is that like, for you? Like, does a restaurant know you're coming when you're there? Do they reach out to you? My guess is things have shifted in that direction. Or like, what does it look like?

I wish I had started off that professionally in 2010. I was 20 years old. I was getting my bachelor's in nutrition and didn't want to work as a dietitian in a hospital for the rest of my life because that was really the only career path at that time. So I was reading a couple of national blogs, and I was very inspired by these women that had their own website. So. Right. Writing about food or fashion or things that they're doing at home. So I got on Google and googled how to build a website, bought my domain, and I did actually two years of recipe blogging and got absolutely no traction. Again, like college student who didn't even have, like a kitchen. So you can imagine my quote unquote recipes were not great.

Sure.

Being in Austin, I had a random restaurant that just invited me to come over to eat. And I grew up in a really small town. My family did not grow up eating out. My parents still very much eat at home. So for me, that was a really big deal to have a restaurant invite me to come over and basically eat and like photograph and write about it. And again, like, no journals and backgrounds, so I didn't know to show up with a pen and pad and take notes. I was not a strong writer. So I had a lot of interest in photography and was very fascinated by magazines like would have loved to work at. I mean, I would still love to work at Bon Appetit or Food and Wine magazine, but was very inspired by all the photography that you would see in these print magazines. And I was a pretty early adopter to Pinterest because Pinterest was already around at that time. And you would just see these stunning food images. And I just really pushed myself to try to shoot images that were as close to that kind of quality. And so when it comes to like restaurant reviewing at that time, a typical journalist would only go in, try the food, and write about it. Usually the restaurant would submit photography, or if they have a marketing agency or agency, they would submit photography. However, I kind of went the other way around. I would really focus the attention on the photography, which I think food should be so beautiful that I can speak for itself and then sub in my commentary. I don't really call myself a food reviewer. I've never really have. I just kind of was like, well, here are things I like and here's maybe aspects of the restaurant that I think are great. And currently I would say I kind of give people suggestions and they can decide whether or not they want to go try a restaurant or not.

Yeah. And so for you, it's less of saying, like, here's a new restaurant and I give it a six, eight out of ten stars. Yeah, exactly. But more of like, hey, I'm going to try a bunch of different places, tell you some things I liked about it. And if you're coming to Austin, like, here's three restaurants you might want to check out. And after going to a lot of different restaurants, like you have strong opinions on what would be a good restaurant to check out. Like hey, you have a day in Austin, where are you going to go? Is that generally aligned?

Yeah, spot on.

Yep. And in terms of like if you were to say kind of pie chart of your business, is your business like ad revenue from people coming to your blog, Sponsored content revenue? I see also that you have city guides. Are there are those like. It's like kind of almost like a category page where you post to those and people can explore. Like hey, here's Lake Tahoe and what I can do when I get to Lake Tahoe, what does the like mechanics of the business side of it look like? And search traffic primarily from that. Or also social.

Yes. I love getting into all of this. I kind of nerd out. And I think nowadays there's. When you think of the term influencer and creator, only a fraction of those are actually bloggers. I think it's not common nowadays for someone to be like, oh yeah, I want to be a blogger, I want to start a website and I think one it's not trendy. Right. You can now create a TikTok page and maybe go viral tomorrow for some mundane thing that you probably did in your bathroom.

Yeah, there's less friction to do getting to where you want to go. Right.

And yes, and I started with the website in 2010. So I would say around from 2010 to 2015, 100% of my revenue was blogging revenue. I'm currently signed with mediavine. So before that was just Google Adsense that would pretty much pay you pennies. But for early 20 year old it was a lot of money, you know, to be doing like something that was considered a hobby for me. What changed in 2015 was City of Austin started becoming popular. We had offices like Facebook Dropbox, indeed open offices here and that started surging, people wanting to move here and that has obviously not slowed down. Austin is one of the most in demand markets right now. We have a real estate market that's completely like ridiculous.

Yeah.

And what happened for advertising is brands would typically only look at maybe la, New York, Miami, Colorado, maybe as big advertising markets started looking towards Austin and Texas as a whole. At that time I was one of few like personalities, if you will, in the city. And so I had a lot of early success success doing Instagram campaigns with brands like Carnival Cruise line for a two year contract for someone who didn't even hit 10,000 followers, which would not happen nowadays. But my revenue percentage pie chart started shifting. As of now, 90% of my revenue is Instagram campaigns. I would say, like Instagram combined a little bit with TikTok. And because of the surge of revenue I'm getting from social media, the blog revenue is only a fraction now.

Sure, that makes sense. Those are those people who are reaching out to you directly, like, or relationships that you have. I think for a lot of people, especially people who are just getting into it, like the mystery around a brand connecting with a personality, influencer, creator, it's like, how does that even work? So what does that. What did. Or do you work with an agency to help facilitate those?

Yeah. So also keep in mind, I never worked in advertising. Don't know how this works. In 2015, I just started getting reached out by brands, primarily ad agencies, which I didn't realize was such a unique situation. So I think 90, I think because it's more common for a brand to reach out to a creator and say, hey, we like to work together. For me, I think I've been a unique position for 90% of my work is from ad agencies.

Yeah.

And so your start, I saw the shift as ad agencies who used to only manage print media, TV media, radio media, started incorporating in their advertising budgets. Hey, we're going to allocate 20% of this year's budget to working with influencers. And here are the markets that we're going to target. And then these markets, these are the 10 that we have lined up for you to figure out who you want to work with. And I learned from a lot of account managers that, you know, I became friendly with, and they were like, how are you on every single table of ad agents that we're talking to? So you're on the table. There's your portfolio. She's, you know, at that time, I was like, in my mid-20s, lives in Texas, has an audience that's like between 25 to 35 that, you know, like, you know, all the demographics that brands are usually wanting to advertise with. And so in the last six years of doing this full time, since 2015, primarily all my work comes from ad agencies who email me and say, like, hey, Jane, you know, X, Y and Z are a big fan. We're working with X and Y and Z brand. They're looking to do this. We would love to work together. Are you interested? From there, I do the first round of vetting. So any brands that I'm not interested in working with, whether it's, you know, a brand that I don't use or don't. Just don't want to be affiliated with or something. I just. Someone. I just don't feel like it's a good fit. I'll politely decline. And then the ones I want to work with, I'll say, hey, love to work together. I'm going to CC my manager here. So I am signed with a talent agency. I made that business decision in about, I would say, like, 20 into 2016, early 2017, I think, when I was literally pulling off the side of the road with my laptop in my car to sign contracts and jump on calls at agencies. And I had no idea what I was like, signing my life away. And one of my big campaigns early on was being the face of Miami tourism for New York Times. Like, my face. Like, they did a video campaign. My face was running through, like, tv, print, like. Or not print. I guess it's digital. So, like, tv, like airports. And I didn't know what I sold my rights to. Right. And I was like, I need to find an agency that can manage and protect myself.

Suddenly it's kind of cool. Like, you see yourself showing up in, like, a subway ad, and you're like, wait, yes, that's me. Kind of cool, but also, like, I didn't know that that's what I was signing up for. Yeah.

So I made that early decision to look for a talent agency that could help me manage my contracts, negotiate with brands. And so that's. That's kind of how my. I've structured everything right now.

Yeah, that's cool. So Instagram, obviously a really big, important platform for you. Different brands will work out, connect with you there. I'm curious to know. You know, obviously Kate mentions you in the live Q and A that we're doing as doing really good work on Pinterest and starting to use a lot of the new tools that they're releasing. How do you view Pinterest as a platform? When you think about kind of all the different platforms that you could be spending time on that you are focusing on? And do you view that as potentially a place where you could be doing sponsored content, or do you view it as a traffic driver?

So I have a. I wouldn't say I have a love and hate relationship with Pinterest per se, because I think it's about setting expectations and understanding what. How you can maximize your potential on each platform. So my thing with Pinterest is, early on, it was the reason why I had so much traffic to a website that really didn't have that much content. And I think the reason why my website comes up on page one of Google for a lot of key terms, especially with anything awesome related to thanks to SEO that I've invested in. But also with like, you know, Google also looks into how many social shares that you have on your page, whether it's on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest or whatever else. Pinterest is a big driver of that I think because I focused so strongly in the very beginning on how my photography looked. That's why Pinterest has worked in my favor. I also figured out to use figure out a template that looks great. So you, when even on Google I have people who are like, I can recognize your photo from anywhere, whether it has a text overlay with the color block because of the way your hands look, you have your white nails. Like it's just a very iconic style. And I think I'm like, I wouldn't say like a creature habit, but I find if I find something that works and sticks, I will stay with it. And it's just kind of on clockwork, which is why I'm able to power through and get so much done every single day. Pinterest is definitely a big traffic driver for me when it comes to sponsored content. I would love to do sponsored content on Pinterest. I think that Pinterest has and I've talked to their teams before it. It's hard because a lot of agencies that maybe I'm working with are not selling Pinterest to their clients because they want to see that immediate roi. So I can easily do a Instagram story and get hundreds of views within seconds by a 24 hour loop. On average, my Instagram stories get about 8,000 views. That's not something that you're going to get on Pinterest right away. Like I see Pinterest as something of long tail. So what I try to tell brands, especially if it's a travel campaign, because travel content does so well, is I will tell agencies if we're doing a travel campaign like, hey, you're already flying me to the destination. You already have me shooting all this content. I already have the blog post going up. Let's repurpose it for Pinterest will still do all of their social shares, but that your brand will still get visibility six months from now. The lifespan of a TikTok video or Instagram post is about 48 hours and then it's gone.

Yeah, it's interesting brands, you potentially will have this mindset of like quarter one. We have goals for quarter one. Here's how many, like, impressions we want to get on this specific piece of content. But whether it be a blog post or Pinterest, I feel like it's the other platform where this is true. YouTube as well. Like, that can be kind of forever in some instances. Not forever forever, but, like, there can be a really long tail on the content that you're pushing to YouTube Pinterest your blog. And you almost have to, like, sell a brand on that or an agency to say, like, hey, this continually delivers value. Yeah.

And I think it's hard because I had some PIMs that take off after six months or, you know, after a full year loop, then it's gotten like 10 million impressions. And occasionally, if I do have a pen pen that does that well, I will go back to the agency. And unfortunately, their retainers are usually six to 12 months. They're like, cool, thanks. We're not with that client anymore.

Yeah.

So that's kind of the uphill battle right there.

Yeah, that makes sense. So as Pinterest has introduced new elements, like, hey, you know, it used to just be the pin, but now we're going to do all of these different things that they're kind of experimenting with. What has your strategy been with saying, like, hey, I'm going to try these out. Is it creating content specifically for that, or are you kind of repurposing content that you're putting in other places and then trying that on Pinterest? And then would you be able to, like, kind of stack order? Like, what are the different things that you're doing on Pinterest right now?

Yeah. So obviously, a static pin is still my favorite because I like to kind of sit down once a month and kind of power through and create a bunch of new pins. Because Pinterest likes to have a new content, and it can't be the same photo that you're basically re uploading again. I guess their algorithm wants to protect that. It's like, still old content.

Sure.

So I will go in with my template on Photoshop and make a bunch of new pins for blog posts that we know that are doing well or I know that are being. Um, I kind of also follow seasons. Right. So, like, right now we're going to start spring, so people are going to look for Patio stuff to do. Um, like, maybe people who live in the north are looking for things to do in the South. So, like, Miami content's going to do well. Texas content is going to do well.

I walked into the room and Lindsay had, like, Expedia Miami pulled up Yeah. I was like, yeah. So you're like, spot on. Yeah. You know your audience. Yeah.

And then I would say with the Pinterest, what are they calling it, where it has the slides and the different frames. Idea pins. That's what they're calling them. We've kind of experimented with recipes. I do have a few recipes on my website. And we've been able to bring a lot of old blog posts back to life by creating idea pins with a step by step. And I think with any platform, whether it's Pinterest or Instagram or TikTok, is, whenever they release a new feature, it is recommended to jump on that feature and use it because the platform is hoping to promote that kind of new feature. So you're going to get more generous engagement and visibility. Like when Instagram first launched IG reels, it got a ton of impressions because it was like, it was a feature that they were hoping to push. So I jumped on idea pins pretty early. We then realized, like, oh, it's also pretty relevant to travel stuff. It's like, oh, 10 things to do in Austin. We just kind of grab stuff from my website and because I have so much content, it is, I would say, a little easier for me to, like, repurpose content because everything's already there. We then realized, like, oh, video content. So her team was like, hey, would you consider creating videos on all these blog posts? And of course, they're only there to manage my Pinterest. I was like, hey, I actually have a pretty big following on Instagram and TikTok. You can just download the videos and we can just test them and repost them to Pinterest. So that's what Kate's team has been doing, is downloading my TikToks and then say, like, if it's a restaurant with a patio, then we will hyperlink to my patio guide. And we've actually had a lot of videos go viral that way too, which is great because I'm not recreating videos for the sake of Pinterest, that we're able to repurpose what I already have posted on my other platforms.

Yeah. So you'll take, you. You're creating something and you're thinking, I'm going to publish this to TikTok. But there is the potential to use that on Pinterest.

Like, yes.

Is there one platform that you think is like your leading platform and then you repurpose underneath those to the other platforms and are you changing anything in between?

I would say Instagram is still my priority. Because that's where all of my revenue is tied up to. So my focus is still like, I would say 60% Instagram, then it 30% TikTok. I have this running series on TikTok. I just kind of laugh because it took me 10 years to get to 100K on Instagram.

Yeah.

And on TikTok, it took me about three months.

And why do you think that is? Like, what is it about the.

I think there's just more active users on TikTok because of the newer platform. I think also on Instagram, when was the last time you followed a new account? Is what I asked people is like, when was the last time you fold a new account? You don't really. Because you're kind of. You like the accounts that you're already following. There are people that. Or personalities that you've been tethered to for years. I think it's a lot harder to want to have to follow a new account. Whereas on TikTok, you will see content from people whether you're following them or not because of your for you page. So my for you page is filled mostly with plants, Trader Joe hauls, Costco hauls, and obviously things to do in Austin and Texas, because that's what I engage with. So the algorithm will constantly feed me videos in those topics. So I've had, early on, like, before I had maybe even 500 followers, I had one video go viral at 2 million views, and that sent me 30 new followers because it's like, oh, hey, there's this new girl on TikTok. And these are all people that weren't following me on Instagram. Like, is a demographic that I would not have reached. And I, you know, just a bunch of people started following my account because they're like, oh, it looks like she does things in Austin. I live in Austin. It's very fascinating because I'm already on Facebook, I'm on Instagram. You go on Google, I'm on page one. Then you're you on Pinterest. I'm there. But then TikTok then reaches another demographic that actually doesn't use any of that stuff or didn't discover me through those outlets, which is very fascinating. And so here in Austin, like, people usually do recognize me. But the fascinating thing with TikTok is because my series is called 100 Things to Do in Austin this Summer, this winter is when I'm out and about, people are like, oh, my God, you're the hundred things girl on TikTok. And I'm like, yeah, yes, 100 things girl.

Right? It's like, if somebody sees me and they recognize me, they're like, oh, you're Pinch of Yum's husband. It's like, that's exactly. That's how I'm known in the world. Yeah. Forever.

So.

So it's interesting and people hear that a lot, like, hey, it's important to repurpose your content and think strategically about work and live on different places. But I think what you said is really important to point out. The reason that's important is because everybody uses platforms differently. Some people exclusively use TikTok, others never opened it, and they use Instagram or they use Pinterest. And so if you can find ways to put your content into multiple different places, like you're going to reach people that you wouldn't reach otherwise. What I'm curious about is like, do you need. Can you just essentially take something from Instagram that you're creating for Instagram and repurpose it to those other platforms? Or do you need to like, tweak and adjust even, like dimensions or like, you know, a lot of times you'll see like a TikTok export that then is uploaded to like, YouTube Reels or Instagram and you see like the little. And it's like, oh, this is just like a direct export from TikTok. Are you needing to change things or do you find something can be. Can perform well across all the different platforms?

So I still kind of create content for each platform. I know there's, you know, maybe some bloggers that just kind of make one content piece and just auto post even. I'm like, oh, my God, why would you do that? Because I think you're only going to get what you put into a platform, amount of time and effort. I think if you have limited time and resources, I would say create on Instagram like a video for reels and then you can save and export that because there's no watermark. However, I really don't like it when I'm on Instagram reels that I see TikTok videos because it has that watermark. And I also know the platforms don't. The Instagram doesn't like that. So I think if you're going to go one way to another, it would be creating a video for Instagram reels and then downloading and reposting it onto TikTok because it's not going to have the watermark. Then you can take that same video, video and post it onto Pinterest. My strategy for each platform, like, I Said is, I, I. Everything that I'm posting on TikTok is not necessarily going on Instagram, because I'm posting on TikTok almost once a day to fulfill my hundred things to do in each season.

Yeah.

Goal. So a lot of things that are in that tech talk series aren't necessarily cool enough per se, to make it onto my Instagram, because my Instagram is a very curated experience. Experience. Also on TikTok, it is all just things to do in Austin. I have not posted a personal video. By personal, I mean, like, oh, like my home renovation, which has been heavily promoted on my Instagram channel. Because I've heard, and I have friends that work at TikTok. They're like, hey, once you, like, make it in a niche, don't go outside that niche because the algorithm will get confused. So I'm just kind of like, a little careful of that. Whereas on Instagram, I have an audience that has followed me for a very long time. You know, maybe like two years, five years. However, so they're, like, not really looking at me just for Austin content. Like, actually, only 30% of my audience on my Instagram account is in Austin. Half the rest of it is in California, New York, primarily because of the migration route, maybe for work or personal. But people who are just like, oh, I guess interested in what I'm doing with my life, right? So I get high engagement on my home renovation right now because I've been doing that for the past year. They, like, want to see what my dog is up to, or they want to know, like, oh, what trip she's taking because, you know, maybe they will go to Miami right now because everyone else is pretty cold.

Yeah, interesting. Um, I think of friend of a friend, but somebody I've connected with before. His name is TJ and he does, like. He's on TikTok and he does, like, birth order humor. So, like, your youngest child, your middle child, the oldest child, and like, how they, like, eat an Oreo, like, and just. But it's like, that's. And he has 900,000 followers. But to your point, like, oh, man, it's just like, super specific niche. And it's just like repeating that over and over and over, and it's all these different, you know, versions of that type of humor. But do you think that's more true for TikTok than, say, an Instagram?

Yes, I really think so. I think just because of how the algorithm presents content. Whereas on Instagram, I think the platform allows you to build a brand that people become Invested in like you and your personality.

Yeah. Versus, I feel like on TikTok centric, like they may know you may not, but they do know, like this thing that you're doing and this thing is like a specific niche.

Yes. And I think, I don't want to say selfish, but I think as we've been talking right now, like, I feel like the consumer on TikTok is a little bit more selfish. And I think because of how easy you're able to swipe up through videos. Like when I think about how I consume content, if I'm watching something like a plant video, I'm like, oh, I don't like this breed of plant. I mainly swipe out. TikTok is like, oh, that video is not good, not relevant or something. So we're not going to show her something like that again. Which is why I think the average consumer on TikTok is more selfish. You know, like, there's a lot more comments. I would say, like, people are like, hey, why didn't you put the location? Oh, this is too expensive. Oh, like why didn't you feature a vegetarian Russia? So like they're just a lot more vocal. And these are people that I probably will like, will never message me.

Yeah.

And.

And those are people who like, on Instagram, they maybe know you, they'd be following you versus and they would not comment or complain.

Yeah.

Totally. That's really interesting. So when you think of the pie chart example again, Instagram, my guess is most significant.

How do you factor in the other.

Platforms like Pinterest, TikTok, you have to decide you only have so much time in a day and you only have. You have a budget to spend. If you are working with somebody to kind of manage an account, how do you think about justification of time or money spent on a certain platform and the potential return on that Pinterest, TikTok, Instagram, whatever it might be.

Yeah, I would say like three or four years ago I was very stretched on budget. Right. So it's like I had to be very careful where time and money resources were being spent. I was spending a lot more time on the website. Like I invested in a. I redesign like, you know, really fast loading sites and then work with media, vine ads. Right now where I'm at right now, I would say Instagram is 60% of my time in money resources because that's where 90%, 90% of my revenue is hold up in, I would say 30%. I'm just trying to count the percentages. Okay. I'm going to say 20% is an allocated towards TikTok. And that's just because video content is very time consuming. It's a lot harder to shoot video and edit video versus taking a static image and just editing that and throwing it up on Pinterest. The remaining 20%, I would say, has been split between the blog and Pinterest. And I hired Simple Pin Media about two years ago to run my Pinterest. And like, you just have to let go of something. And so for me, I was like, well, Pinterest can be automated. They also have access to tribes that they've already created. So I'm just gonna let them manage that because in reality, if I don't hire them to manage it, then I'm not gonna be. I won't be posting on Pinterest because again, like, all of my revenue is tied to Instagram.

Yeah, that makes sense.

So if you were, let's say if.

You hit the reset button and everything went away and it's, you know, we're recording this in February. It won't come out in February, but. And you didn't have anything, what. How would you go about rebuilding what you've rebuilt, like, seeing where you'd be able to get, like, traction? And like, whenever I ask people who have been doing this for longer than 10 years, it's always like, oh, please, no, but let's say, you know, kind of the, the great reset. What. Where would you look at and where would you invest your. For your. Your initial kind of allotment of time and resources?

Oh, man. You know, I sometimes daydream about this because it can be very taxing of people constantly like, oh, what are you doing? What is she up to? Like, who is she dating and what's she doing at home? Like, oh, she's working on this home project. But then I heard she might, you know, like, it takes a little bit of skin over time to be okay with, you know, basically having your privacy violated a little bit.

And you're like, you being the brand that you are publishing, you're putting yourself out there. People aren't commenting necessarily on like a place or a thing, but like, you as it relates to the thing. Yes, yeah, totally.

And so it's like pretty much not really taking a day off and working. I don't know from moment I wake up to when I go to sleep. Obviously I can have boundaries, right, of how often I'm posting the stories or maybe not checking the app, you know, for the next five hours. Those are boundaries that you can put up. So I often do daydream, like, oh, what would I do? However, I think, like, I've been very lucky in the last decade to have built up this brand. I don't know if I could replicate it. If I lost everything or say, like, I'm just starting right now. Like, I think it would be very hard because of how I built my brand. It's very much tethered to Austin. I was there for Austin during a time when nobody else was writing about Austin, when Austin didn't have a restaurant culture, when people weren't coming here to, you know, like, come for the weekend or come for a couple months for vacation. I don't know if I could replicate it, but I think if I was going to, like, and I had like, limited resources, I probably would just jumped on. Jump on TikTok just because I've been very shocked about how quickly you can grow on TikTok. And it's not even about the number of followers you have. It's about how much reach you can have on a post.

Like, you can have Something that gets 2 million impressions, views. Yeah.

And you just, you can't even pay for that on other platforms right now. And so I, I think I probably would just start on TikTok.

Yeah. You kind of alluded to this and to be interested to hear you talk a little bit more about it, but kind of like the, the reality of what it looks like to have a personal brand and like, for you to be the one that, like, the content is channeling through and, and I, in my conversations, whether with. On the podcast or within the communities that we're in or even privately with people, like, that's one of the things that you hear people talk about is like, that being potentially a burden. I also think it's an advantage. I think people want to follow people as opposed to. I think people can follow brands as well. But I think it's a little bit stickier. You have more traction if it's an actual person who's doing a thing. There is a niche. But it sounds like you were kind of hinting at the potential of maybe not doing something that would be so personality driven. Is that right? Like, do you think you'd create something that would be more like, brand driven and less personal?

Brand driven or.

I think it's more scalable, which is why I have. That's how I kind of alluded to it is not from like, you know, I've known a few people that have sold their websites. I wouldn't say, like, not because I'm thinking in that direction. But yes, hypothetically, if I wanted to sell my brand, I couldn't because my face and my voice is so tethered to all the social accounts, to the blog, there's no way I could do that. But when I think about, like, you know, if I didn't put my personality so much to it, then I could onboard like more freelance writers. Right. I could maybe incorporate more cities. But I think that's why my brand has been so strong and resilient through. It's not common. People probably hit over 10 years. I don't think there's a lot of tests, honestly. Mostly maybe because of burnout or you weren't able to monetize or you got bored or, you know, life just happened. Right. Those are all very common factors. But I do think why mine has stayed so strong for so long is because it is so much my face, it is so much my voice. I do a lot for Austin. Last year, there was a winter storm that hit Texas, and there was hundreds of thousands of people without power. And I jumped on stories and said, hey, there's a lot of us are hurting right now. Will you raise money with me? In less than a week, I raised $160,000. I don't think that's something that another publication could have done. They also didn't do it because I think when you have people on your team, you're can't move as fast. I want to say, like, you probably could get more done, but when it comes to, like, a natural disaster or if I want to take off to Miami tomorrow, I could, because I'm pretty much like a team of one. I do have different aspects of my business outsource, but it's like, okay, I'll just jump on stories right now. I think I'm gonna do this. Who knows if I'll raise a single dollar?

Yep, it's. That's really cool, by the way. That's awesome that you're able to do that and incredibly impactful. And my guess is that people are doing that because people are kind, people are generous, and also because people feel connected to you. And I think that's kind of what you're saying is like, if it was like, you know, visit austin.com like, people would maybe be like, move to help people of Austin. But, like, it's through you that people are doing that. And that's really powerful and a great kind of not an analogy, but like a reflection of, like, why personal brand is powerful. But then to your point, like, if you Onboard. It, it reminds me of. There's this YouTube. This is for anybody who has like, toddler. They'll be like, oh, yeah, this YouTuber, but his name is Blippi. And he does like, you know, he dresses like super bright colors, orange and blue. And like, we'll go and visit like a zoo and we'll like walk through and do like a 10 to 20 minute, you know, walkthrough of a zoo, just talking about the animals. And he did this tour where, like, he would do live in person things, but like, he booked a different person, like an actor to play him on the tour. And all these parents were like, outraged. Like, that's not Blippi. Like, you can wear the same outfit, you can like, say the same things, but it's not Blippi. And I'm sure for this individual, it's like, it's like this incredible thing that, that he's built, you know, tens of millions of followers, but it's like him. And so it's like the positive of it is the incredible reach and impact. And then the difficult reality of it is like, you can't sub in some random person to be like, here's Blippi. And it's like, no, that's not Blippi.

Yes. So that's. Yes, that exactly on point. Because I used to do three restaurant tastings a day. Like in my 20s. There's a lot of food. I'm very lucky that I have high metabolism because you're eating like very heavy food, right? And it can be quite detrimental to your body. Over five years, a decade nowadays. I probably do one tasting a week, like, and it's mostly because I, I'm involved in a bunch of other projects. I also just not covering that many restaurants anymore. But it's, it is like I have, you know, a lot of restaurants are emailing every single day, like, hey, will you come? Can you come? Can you please come? I saw you went here, like, can you come? It's. It's a lot. It builds a lot of anxiety. Like, people are just asking for things all the time. And I wish I could help out every single local business and restaurant because to this point, I have never charged a local restaurant or business. All of my ad money and brand partnerships are from, you know, national companies like ikea, Target Trader, not traders like Whole Foods or whoever. But it's hard. And like, I even have friends who are like, maybe you should hire a body double who can go. And I was like, yes, tell me how that's going to go. She's going to wear my.

Exactly.

She's probably going to obviously be Asian with polyage hair, white nails. Then what are we going to do about the voice? Am I going to do a voiceover? But what happens? She opens her mouth. She can't be me at the restaurant being like, hey, guys, I'm here at a restaurant, or no, I can't do that. Right.

Yeah. And it's just a reality of, you know, we talk about that with pinch of yum. Like, what does that look like? To make sure that you make space for yourself so you don't burn out. Like, you mentioned that. But like, that being a reality, but also continue to have it be personality driven, which is like a hard, hard thing to. To find that balance. As we're coming to the end here, I'd be curious to know one of the questions I like to ask people, especially people who have been at this for a long time and continue to do it at a high level. If you were to go back and sit down with yourself, let's say, in 2010, what would your advice be? Knowing what you know now?

I mean, I am very happy and proud of where I am right now. So I think I would just kind of poke myself and whisper and be like, on the right track.

Yeah.

Everybody else that is around you that's like, this is stupid. What are you spending your time on? Your parents are so mad at you. Why are you, like, obsessing over Pinterest? Like, I truly mean that. Like, I would obsess and like, save so many images on my laptop and just be like, how do they shoot this? Like, I want to shoot the perfect photo. I was just so obsessed with food photography and just kind of like, really just tell myself, like, just keep going.

Yeah.

Because it's hard. When nobody else at that time was like, social media wasn't a thing. Right. Blogging, Nobody was making money from that. But for some reason, I. I don't know, I call it stubbornness, probably. I just want to do something different. I would just tell myself to keep going.

Yeah, that's great. I love that. And I think it'll resonate with a lot of people who are listening. Because I think when you get into it, there are people from the outside who look and they're like, wait, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Like, does it make sense? Maybe more so now. For sure, more so now. Like, people understand this world better. But even so, I think it's. It's common for people to not encourage, but discourage and sort of go back and say, and I think, like, stick with it.

I want, and I want to add on to that because I have, you know, a lot of people that will ask me, like, how did you get started? Or I want to do what you're doing, or, hey, I've been doing this for six months. And I always try to set the expectation. Like, hey, what you're seeing right now is like the inside product. This is 11 years of working 100 hours for the last hundred hours a week for the last five years. And it's a lot of sacrifice. It's like a lot of like broken relationships. I also didn't foster a lot of my friendships because I was so obsessed with trying to create really good content. And again, like, it goes back to like, you know, people who are parents, right? And they're like, well, how do I do this? I'm like, I don't know. You, you can't ask me like how I did because I'm not in the same situation. I also, at that time I'm, I don't have expectation because there was nobody else that was doing it. So, like, I was just pretty much having fun every day because I didn't have to measure up to anybody. Whereas now I can see how it can be tough where you're like, well, this person started three months ago. Why are they at 500,000 followers? Right, right. Don't know. You're not them. I think that's the weird thing about social media that people don't understand is like, you could have the content, you could have the voice, but you're not that person. Right. Like, no one can replicate what I'm doing because I'm making up things as I go. Like, kind of have a good idea what I'm going to do for the rest of today, but I don't really know what I'm going to do tomorrow.

Sure. Yeah. That's awesome. And I love that. And one of the great luxuries of all of that time and energy that you've put in. I love the phrase live like no one else so you can live like no one else. And I feel like working a hundred hour weeks, you know, for years, allows you the luxury then of having a freedom and flexibility that doesn't exist in a lot of other situations because of that work that you've done, which I think is really cool.

And I want to add on. Sorry, one more quote. What you just said is I always tell people, like, in my industry, the best way to escape competition is to be yourself.

Yeah. Totally. And to not try and replicate what somebody else is doing, because what they're doing is probably a really good version of who they are. Like themselves amplified. And if you can like amplify yourself, what a great thing that can be. So we talked a lot about your platforms, your site, but can you talk about where people can actually follow along with you and keep track of what you're up to and maybe if they're going to Miami or Austin where they can download some of those. Trip planning.

So I'm a taste of cocoa, which is Koko on every single social media platform. Most active on Instagram and obviously TikTok. But generally, if you look up anything in Austin, best brunches, that's happier things to do. I'm on page one, probably result number three or four. I also have a book on Austin, which actually we have. We didn't talk about, but it's a little yellow guidebook called Coco's Guide to Austin. It would kind of fetch. It kind of fit into my ecosystem over the last couple of years. And when I want to, I guess to tie up like what is the value of a website versus just having social media channels is I had this website, I have this website, get it. Generating hundreds of thousands of views a month. People who are looking for content, but yet they're still asking me for recommendations. So the beautiful thing about that was I was like, well, I always loved printed material again. Wish I would have worked at a magazine at some point, but decided to self publish my own little guidebook on Austin, put up on Amazon. I have all these Legion pages basically for the last decade. So anyone, anyone looks at things to do in Austin, there's a little CTA on top that's like, hey, buy my book on Amazon. It's also been like a big gifter for people. Real estate agents love using it as a welcome gift, so they'll like buy hundreds of books at a time. So yeah, I'm on a lot of different areas.

That's great. We'll link to those in the show notes. Coco, thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you.

Hello.

Hello, Leslie here from the Food Blogger Pro team. We really hope that you enjoyed this episode. Before we sign off, I wanted to quickly mention the Food Blogger Pro podcast face group in case you haven't joined yet. It is a great place that you can go to to continue the conversation outside of our episodes. So in the Facebook group, we do open calls for interview ideas. We do Q&As with podcast guests, so you can ask the guests questions based on the episodes, and then we also have an opportunity for you to submit your own questions for upcoming interviews. So in the Facebook group you can help shape the future of the podcast and the episodes. And it's just a fantastic place to continue the conversation and interact with our guests. So if you haven't joined and you would like to do so, you can join the Facebook group by going to foodbloggerpro.com Facebook. You'll be asked to answer just a few short questions, and then we'll approve your registration and you'll have full access to the Facebook group. That's all we've got for you today, though. Thanks again for tuning in, and until next time, make it a great week.

Sam.