370: How Caitlin Shoemaker Became a Full-Time Food Creator with 778K Subscribers on YouTube

This podcast is sponsored by Clarity. That is C-L-A-R-I-T-I.com and really, the name says it all. The purpose of Clarity is to have a clear and straightforward tool that allows you to have clarity. That's where the name comes from. Into areas of opportunity for improving content on your blog and managing those projects along the way. And what we found was for many bloggers, ourselves included, there either wasn't a great system at all to manage projects or find areas of opportunity, or it was like Google Sheets or airtable, which those are really powerful tools and those are awesome tools. And if you're good at using Google Sheets or Airtable and connecting all of the different elements that you need, more power to you, I think that those tools are incredible. But what we wanted with Clarity was to ease the burden of some of the more technical considerations that go into hooking all of that information up. And so with Clarity, what we're doing is we're bringing what we consider to be some of the most important information for publishers and bloggers into the same place. So Clarity brings in WordPress metadata, so how long your post is, what the links are, external, internal links, alt text within images or images that are maybe broken. We bring all of that information in. We bring in information from Google Analytics. So you connect your Google Analytics account, your Google Search Console account, all of that information comes into one central spot. And from there you can use Clarity to find opportunities. So maybe you want to improve the number of links that are coming to a certain post. Just this morning, I looked for Pinch of Yum, and we have some new posts that we're actually not linking to. So I made a note and I was like, oh, my gosh, we need to link to these new posts that we've published within other posts. And I wouldn't have been able to on my own. Just kind of think of that or check on that if I, if not for that being surfaced within Clarity. So you can find those opportunities, but then you can also create a project around those to then make sure that you can check back and say, great, here's what I need to do. You can create tasks within that project and you can work through that to make sure that you improve that piece of content or that area of opportunity over time. And this is the key piece with it is you can take notes along the way. So you can look back three months, six months a year from now and say, hey, that was. That was an improvement that I made. Did that have an impact? Great. If it did. What are some other ways that I can do that in other places on my blog to continue to optimize and improve? And what we found is especially for people who have been blogging for a certain number of years, a huge part of what you need to do is not only think about new content, but but continually maintaining and optimizing your existing content. So it's been fun to see Clarity grow as we've talked about it and shared it with other publishers over the last year or so. And just last month we had 60 bloggers sign up to start using Clarity. If you want to check it out, the best way to do that is to go to clarity.com food. So that's C-L-A-R-I-T I.com food and podcast listeners can receive 50% off of your first month if you go to that URL. And again, it's c l a r I t I.com food. Thanks to clarity for sponsoring this podcast. Hey there, this is Bjork Ostrom. You are listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. We do this podcast on a weekly basis for people who are interested in building businesses or building a following online. And there's lots of different ways that you can do that, and we try and hit that from all sorts of different angles. All the different ways that you can do it, all the different ways that you can build a business, all the different ways that you can build a following. And today we're going to be looking at the angle of video and we're going to be talking about YouTube, growing a following on YouTube, but also just video in general. We know that it's really important. All the social platforms you're seeing are making a shift towards video as an important component and a way to connect with people. And it's inevitable that that's the direction that things are going. So we're gonna have a conversation today with Caitlin Shoemaker. She has a YouTube channel with almost 800,000 subscribers and she also has a food blog. And that food blog is an important part of her business. It's called From My bowl and has published cookbooks and just has a lot of experience building a following online and also building her business from that following. And we're gonna be talking about the strategies that she uses for creating content, how she does for different platforms, how she shoots, how she edits, and advice that she has for other people who are interested in using video to grow following and to build their business. So it's going to be a great conversation, excited to share it with you. Let's go ahead and jump in. Caitlin, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. Bjork, I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah, we were chatting about a few things before we pressed record. Video, cameras, audio, all of these different things. We're going to talk about some of those things because we actually had some folks in our Facebook group who had some questions for you. But before, before we do that, I want to hear a little bit about kind of the lay of the land with your business. You have a successful YouTube account, you have a successful blog, but one of the interesting things with your story is you started with YouTube and then you launched your blog a little bit later on. So take us back to the day when you started your YouTube account. Did you know that you wanted to grow it into a business? Or was it like you being passionate about video and saying, hey, here's a good platform for me to create content on?

Yeah, sure. I definitely went about creating my blog in a sort of roundabout way than what I would say the standard recommendation is. But at the end of the day, I do think it worked out for me. Well, I initially started out on Instagram just because I loved video and food photography and cooking. And I sort of saw it as a great way to combine all of my interests and find a community of like minded people. And then from there I sort of went to YouTube because YouTube was really popular at the time, especially amongst the vegan community. It was more food based and you would share recipes and it was just another way to connect with other people. And I was just in college at the time, doing it for fun. I was actually studying something completely different. I was on track to become a physical therapist. But then my YouTube slowly started to gain traction and I was able to start making money from my YouTube videos. And that sort of changed my perspective. At first I thought it was, you know, just a fun side project, but then I was thinking that, you know, this is always a dream that I've had. Maybe I should try to pursue it full time.

Yeah. When was that that you decided to do that?

I went to graduate school actually to work on YouTube and start my blog. And I'm very glad I did because I've been able to turn it into a successful six figure. And I'm so grateful that I get to do what I love every day. But yeah, YouTube is definitely a sort of roundabout way. You know, typically when you're creating recipes, the end goal, I would say, is to draw people to your blog where you have self Hosted ads, and that way you make more revenue. Whereas initially I was just posting the recipes in the comments or the caption of my YouTube video because I didn't really realize that my blog was a way to sort of further monetize my content. But then I actually came across a food blogger pro podcast and learned about the importance of making a blog. So I really owe a lot of credit to you guys. I listened to a lot of episodes, set up my blog, and then I started to just link the recipes for my YouTube videos to my blog. So in that regard, I think at that point I already had a couple hundred thousand subscribers on my YouTube channel. So I think that helped my blog get an initial push, that sort of helped me get those consistent page views more rapidly than if I just started my blog from scratch, because I had already sort of curated a dedicated following of people who were interested in my recipes. And I also think that I'm not a total expert on this, but the domain authority of my YouTube channel at that point. And then linking to my blog from that channel sort of helped my blog gain a little more traction.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think when. When you think of the. The change that happens from creating content as a video creator to creating content as a blogger, those are like two very different skills. Do you feel like that transition for you required you kind of like learning a new thing essentially, or do you feel like you had some of the innate, like, content creation ability from video first that you just kind of like repurposed into blog posts? Does that make sense?

Yeah, I think there was definitely a bit of a learning curve at first. More, I would say with a technical aspect. I think that I didn't really know how to structure a blog post for SEO and I was just sort of used to writing out the recipe, maybe not even including substitutions, because it was just sort of what I did and not really catering it to the user, more just sharing my own creative experience. But I would say the more I looked into it, the more I realized that there were a lot more technical aspects behind it. And coming from a science background, I actually found that sort of fascinating. I know typically, stereotypically, I guess you would think people are either like creative and they want to focus on food or, or they more maybe have more of like an analytical prowess and they like to explore that. But I kind of looked at creating a blog as sort of like a math or science equation. And I was like, well, how can I figure this out? How can I tinker with this formula? To make my blog post appear higher up. So there definitely was a learning curve. But I think I sort of just enjoy the experience. And I will say, because I started with YouTube, I think later on, as we're seeing the shift to video on other social media platforms, my experience in video that I already had through YouTube did help me with Instagram and then also putting videos on my blog, like embedding the recipes themselves. So it's sort of a give and take. And I don't necessarily think any approach is the wrong one. I think I ended up doing what was best for me and it worked out in the end. But, you know, we can't expect everyone to like coming out all guns blazing on all social media platforms, being the best at everything, you know?

Yeah, I think that's insightful. One of the things that I think is important and that we try and touch on occasionally is the focusing on your platform of highest alignment. And what I mean by that is like, where's the place that you are most easily able to create content and have the least amount of friction and being okay not doing anything else? And for you, it sounds like that was YouTube and not only was it enjoyable, but you also got to the point where you were able to get some traction and actually start to create some money. I'd be interested to hear what was it like for you at that stage where you were in college? You were pursuing this path of physical therapy and also doing kind of this side hustle, like hustle slash, hobby, hobby, migrating into hustle. Like what did the decision making process look like for you as you started to think about maybe this could be a thing and that means kind of winding down this other pursuit or dream or path that I had in mind. Can you talk through what that stage looked like for you?

Yeah, absolutely. I originally wanted to be a physical therapist because I thought that the field was very creative. So I've always been sort of into doing something a little bit different every day, which now I found with food blogging, if I'm making a different recipe, it's sort of a different approach or technique. So I found that was sort of a mutual interest between the two platforms. And it was definitely a challenge. When I was in school, I started it in undergrad, so I had a little bit more free time. But then in graduate school, I actually ended up taking a sort of risk and not getting a job to pay for my student loans and I decided to try YouTube instead. So I definitely sort of had a drive, almost a fear of failure, which isn't necessarily like the best motivating factor, but I was like, well, I need to pay my student loans. How can I approach this while also having fun? And, you know, we'll experiment a little bit. And I think I joined YouTube at a really good time. When I was joining it, the platform was pretty well established, but it also was going through a phase where it was really highlighting food creators, especially I think, vegan content creators. So I sort of just, I got extremely lucky and the videos that I started posting, YouTube started featuring and it was resonating with a larger and larger and larger audience. So I realized, hey, I might actually have something here. So what I would do is, you know, sort of strictly manage my time. During the week I would mostly focus on school, except maybe on my lunch break I would dream up a few recipe ideas, et cetera. And I tried to get all my studying done during the week. And then on my weekends I would be creating content for YouTube. I honestly don't know how I did it. I was in graduate school from like eight to five every day. And then I would film three YouTube videos a week for my YouTube channel. And looking back, I'm like, did I sleep? I'm not too sure. But thinking back on it though, I did have a lot of fun and obviously I did sacrifice some social situations for it. But I didn't really feel like my life was lacking anyway because it was something that I was so passionate about and I was sort of creating an Internet community that I felt like I was having social interactions with too. So eventually I would say, as my YouTube videos started to gain more traction internally, I was wishing I could spend more time on YouTube videos and I didn't want to spend as much time on social media school. And so I started to question, you know, hey, like, this is supposed to be my future full time job, but I'm sitting in class and instead of taking notes on like how to rehab an acl, I'm thinking about, oh, I should post this recipe video next week. So that was sort of the biggest indicator for me that while I was once passionate about this prior PT as a career, it wasn't what I wanted to do anymore. And I definitely had some, you know, worries about being a content creator full time at the time. It wasn't seen as a sort of income, it was sort of, oh, you have a food blog, that's cute.

You know, when was this in terms of like around what time was this?

Let me see. I started my YouTube channel around six years ago, so probably around like 2017, 20, 18, I would say, is when I dropped out of graduate school to do blogging full time. And, and I would say that was sort of when you started to see more paid partnerships on Instagram and YouTube of brands working with smaller creators. So I sort of saw it as an opportunity to explore potentially making a full time revenue and like income stream from posting things online. So I.

Did you have your blog at that point or was it YouTube?

Strictly when I, I think when I dropped out of graduate school at that time I had a blog. I think I'd had it for a couple of months. And around that time I was with an ad provider, but it was a lower one where there was no minimum page views per month. So I wasn't really making money with my blog.

But your YouTube account was?

Yes, my YouTube account was making enough money, I would say, to pay my monthly rent and to pay for my groceries.

So it's like college living, right? Like, you haven't, you hadn't have. Lifestyle inflation is. I remember a conversation with a friend and he was coming out of an internship in college and it was like he got a job offer. And I think it was for like, I don't know, 36,000. And I remember us being like, what are you gonna do with all that money? Like, yeah, like you're just, you're starting out in your career and you know, you're used to, you haven't had lifestyle inflation. And you know, $36,000 is a lot of money. But as a lot of people know, as you start to get, you know, whether it's like kids or housing or just general lifestyle inflation, like suddenly you look back at that time and you're like, wait, like what happened in between then that that perspective changed. But it's, it's a great time to be starting a business because you don't have these expenses that have built up in your life that require a certain amount.

Yeah, I think I saw that opportunity and I realized, you know, as a person sharing an apartment with a roommate and not having a lot of monthly expenses, like, that was enough money for me to sort of take a leap. And initially I did talk to my graduate school program and I just took a one year leave of absence. So I sort of had that as like a fallback, you know, if I decided that this full time blogging thing wasn't what I actually wanted to do. But then a year quickly passed and I was making enough, more than enough money to support my current lifestyle. So I was like, yeah, I'm just going to do this full time?

Yeah. Was it hard to. You know, they talked about this idea of a sunk cost where you've invested either time or money into a thing and you can potentially think like, oh, I need to continue with that thing because of this previous investment of time that I've had, or money. Was it hard for you to say, you know what, like, I've invested a lot of time and money into this career and I'm gonna actually not pursue that or. Or was that actually not that difficult?

It was difficult for me, I would say, especially because it was a three year program and by the time I decided to leave, a year had already passed. So part of me was like, well, you know, it's only two more years. It's not that much time in my life and I've already committed like a third of the cost. And then now I'm leaving with no degree. So I think that prevented me from leaving sooner, if I'm being honest, because it was sort of about what other people would think of me, about the time and money I had spent. But then after talking to a few of my peers and friends, I realized that I think with my generation, we do go after, like, well, what's really gonna make me happy? Or what am I passionate about? And so I decided to attempt to leave. And now in retrospect, I don't really regret spending a year in school. I mean, it kind of stinks that I don't have a degree, but I still use my knowledge that I learned in graduate school. And I do think in some ways, like the research oriented approach to the science that I learned in graduate school, I still sort of can apply to my food job in some ways. And you know, I had a good time while I was in graduate school. And for me, physical therapy, like, I learned a lot about the human body, so I still use that in my own personal life.

I think it's something that we discredit quite a bit, which is a previous seemingly unconnected field or experience and how that can apply to what we're doing. I think of Lindsay as a teacher. You know, that was really valuable work. I worked at a non profit and we would do partnerships with schools, speaking in front of kids, and it allowed me to feel really comfortable just doing like a podcast interview as a for instance.

Yeah.

And so I think it's a good reminder for anybody who's listening that you might feel like you're not equipped to go into a field, but chances are that you have skills and abilities that you've developed in a certain area that can be applied in a new and unique way in a new field. I'm curious to know what, in those early stages, what did, what did it look like for you to create an income? Was it YouTube ad revenue, was it sponsorships? And how did you feel comfortable enough with that continuing moving forward? Because I think that's always the question is like, I have this history looking back of being able to. And I remember this for Lindsay and I looking back saying, like, okay, we made enough to live off of, but what happens if we don't have that moving forward? So how did you get to the point where you felt comfortable enough to say, you know what, I think this is going to continue moving forward? Or maybe you didn't know.

I would say I didn't know at first. Like I mentioned, when I dropped out of grad school, I was probably making, I would say, between 1500-2000amonth on YouTube. And that was pretty much my income. But for a college student, you know, like, I was like, not too bad. It covers my rent.

It covers what you need.

Yeah, yeah. So I decided just to try it for a few months and because before I was sort of dedicating maybe like 20 hours a week to it, and then suddenly I had my whole week able to sort of tackle things from my blog. I was able to create, I wouldn't say more content, but better quality content, which I think was able to reach a larger audience. And around that time I had some YouTube videos that really started to take off and get hundreds of thousands of views sort of went viral at the time, which gradually increased my income. And then everything I would say sort of started to happen at once. So as my YouTube channel was growing, my Instagram channel or my Instagram account was also growing and I started to get more offers from brands who wanted to pay me to promote their product. And then at the same time, was.

That on Instagram mostly or were you getting offers on YouTube as well?

I would say it was a combination. Initially it was more Instagram. I think around that time I had around 50 or 60,000 followers on Instagram as well. And so I was getting some con some on there and I had a few brands I worked with on YouTube. It wasn't as much, but the brands that I worked with were more interested in long term partnerships. So I sort of saw that as more of a steady stream of income. I would partner with a brand for like a year and I would post a video every other month featuring their product. So eventually my income Stream started to grow, I started to use affiliate links and that sort of helped add. And then at the same time I was also putting in time on my blog. And then eventually I got to the point where I was making around 100,000 page views a month. So I applied to Adthrive and then once I switched to a better ad provider, that's when I really started to make more consistent money from my blog. So it sort of.

And you're diversified at that point too, which is great. You have YouTube and then you have your blog. You're starting to make multiple thousands in those places and it's like, oh, suddenly you have like a very healthy income that's not from one place. Sponsored content, Instagram, YouTube, your blog. That provides kind of some stability.

Yeah. And that really helped me. I think I started to feel more secure and to know that this could be my full time job. When I started to get the more consistent long term contracts, my blog income was sort of stabilized per month and I wasn't only making enough to sort of support my monthly means, but to have some in savings as well.

Yeah. Were those brands reaching out to you or were you reaching out to them?

I actually let most of them reach out to me. I didn't do a lot of outreach. I know that that's a great strategy and I have some friends who started making sponsored content through reaching out to other brands. But I actually, I think most of the brands did reach out to me. Like I said, I had some YouTube videos go viral. So I think people were sort of experimenting with some YouTube sponsored content and they may have seen my video that way or they may have come across my Instagram account and that's how they reached out to me. I would say pretty soon after I left graduate school, I did sign with a manager who she takes a percentage of the sponsored income that I earn. But she does do some outreach for brands. So she ended up doing some outreach to brand. But I would also forward, you know, the emails I received for people looking.

To partner together and the idea with that, like you get an email in, it's great. But then if you're the creator, then you're like, oh, now I have to deal with the contract negotiation. And so you have somebody that you work with in the management role where you just forward that onto them and say like, hey, I'm interested in this or could you look into this? Is that generally how it works?

Yes. Yeah. That I would think was one of the most helpful things for me in terms of giving me more Free time to do the sort of creative aspects of my job and have her handle the back end. So generally how it works is I'll forward any conversations with brands to her, and it sort of gives me the opportunity to play the good guy. I can say, oh, I'm so excited to partner with you. Here's my manager. She'll share all of the information with you, and then she can sort of play hardball and be like, okay, well, here are our rates. Like, how much money are you willing to give to this campaign? And if you can't meet our budget, well, we'll have to take a few things away. Sort of all of the negotiation, which I'm not very skilled at, so it's nice to have someone else do that for me. And then she's also great at sending me reminders like, hey, don't forget to submit your content, or, okay, now we need to submit the analytics. So it was a way for me to outsource some of the tasks that didn't bring me as much joy.

Yeah. Which is super smart. And as much as possible, we did an interview with. I don't know if this has been released yet. I think it has Emily Perrin, and she is somebody who works with bloggers to help create teams. She talked about this idea of working in your zone of genius. And I think for a lot of creators, not all creators, but for a lot of creators, contract negotiation probably isn't zone of genius work. And so to find somebody who that is their zone of genius. There's people who love negotiating and they love project management. I think that's part of leveling up as a creator is figuring out those people that are going to be a part of your team. They're working in their zone of genius. You're working in your zone of genius. It can sometimes, for me, I think, feel like, wait, I'm giving this person this thing that I don't like, and I feel bad about it, but it's like, wait, you do like living in spreadsheets all day? I think of, yeah. Who is our fractional cfo? Great. You can work in spreadsheets all day. How did you find that person, or did they reach out to you?

She reached out to me, but I think we had actually worked together on a previous partnership. So she was sort of in the unique position where she used to work for a PR firm and that specialized with brands, more specifically in the food niche. And then she left the firm to support creators instead. So I got very lucky. I'm realizing in this conversation I had a lot of people reaching out to me, and she's great. I haven't switched management since. I've worked with her this whole time. And yeah, she does a wonderful job. But I do know that nowadays, I think that influencer representation agencies are a lot more common now, where it's something you can sort of find either on Instagram or on Google. And I think you can apply to them nowadays, too. Though I will say a lot of them do reach out via email and have a whole marketing team as well, if that's something that people are interested in.

Cool. One of the things you've mentioned a couple times that I would like to go back to is just being lucky. And I think that it's important to point out, I think of a surfing analogy, and I've used it a couple times, but I feel like luck plays into getting it, catching a good wave. And you talked about catching a good wave, you know, with YouTube or maybe somebody reaching out. But I think a huge part of it, too, is being really good at surfing. Like, you have to catch the wave and you have to surf it. And I think that in. In the world of business or entrepreneurship or creating, it has to be both. And so this is just me, like, affirming you as a creator. Like, there's the wave, and that's important. But it's also, like, part of the reason why people are reaching out, why brands are reaching out, why you're able to grow your YouTube account to, you know, almost 800,000 at this point, is because the content you're creating is having an impact and people are resonating with it. So I think that's an important piece to point out to real. Go back a little bit, or maybe it's not even going back. But I'm just curious to know, as a creator, do you feel like stepping in front of the camera, pressing record, you know, which is a lot of what YouTube would be. And my guess is a lot of the success of YouTube is your personality, like, showing up, recording, being somebody that people can connect with. Was that something that you feel like was innate? You know, they talk about you can't teach running. Like, people who are fast runners, like, they've trained and they. They're really good, but you can't, like, teach it like you. You have people who are good runners. I'm curious to know, do you feel like that also applies to building a brand on YouTube like you've done, where you can just kind of press record and step in front of the camera? Because some People are like, I don't want to be in front of the camera. And can you train that or do you feel like that was also part of who you were?

I would say it's probably a combination of both. I mean, you can go on my YouTube channel, I haven't deleted a single video. And if you look back at my initial videos, I can't even watch them because to me I look very awkward and uncomfortable. And it is sort of about putting yourself out there. And I do think with practice, you know, you get a little better at delivering what you want to say and sharing more of your personality. I also think personality wise, I'm a pretty introverted person. So it's always been easier for me to sort of have one on one conversations or even in this case speak to a camera. I think a lot of people think YouTubers are very outgoing and extroverted, but usually when you meet content creators in real life, you realize that a lot of us are more introverted or quiet. But it's just, you know, the way YouTube cuts work that people seem like they're always talking because we are. It's sort of a one sided conversation. But it is a lot easier to talk to a camera for me than to talk to a large group of people. So I'd say even from the get go, that was, that did help me. I just felt like, well, no one else is in the room, no one else is looking at me. It's just me talking to a camera. And, you know, if I mess up my words, I can say them again and I can edit it out. So I sort of saw that as a better way. Like it's easier for me than public speaking, I guess.

Yeah.

And I will say, the more YouTube I've done, the better I have gotten at speaking more fluidly. Initially, it would take me, you know, five, seven tries to say a sentence and I would have a lot of jump cuts because I would be stumbling over my words. And now with YouTube, I also think I have a more relaxed attitude about it where, you know, if I do mess up, it kind of shows my personality, it shows that I'm human and a lot of times I am able to speak more fluidly and I don't need to make any edits or, you know, if I mess up, I just laugh about it and move on and people kind of appreciate it.

Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like. So I think of, you know, pinch of Yum's YouTube account and essentially it's like the anti example of what a YouTube account should be, which is essentially just like us repurposing video that we're putting in other places. Can. Do you think you can build a successful YouTube account without being in front of the camera? Or do you. Do you think it needs to be personality driven?

I think that it can. I think it is possible. I will say I think YouTube is a really interesting social media platform in that it's more long form content. So, you know, people aren't going to go to YouTube to watch a 15 second video, they're probably going to go to another platform. Although there is YouTube short, but that's sort of relatively new. I think there needs to be some sort of personality in the video, but I don't think it necessarily has to be you or your face. Even within the food community itself on YouTube, I think there are so many creators who are doing a wide variety of things, even though they all revolve around food. So I would say yes, the majority of people, they are talking to the camera, whether it's sort of like a TV show style appearance or for me, I talk to the camera at the beginning and end of the video and then I do sort of overhead for the recipes. But there are also YouTube channels who are more, I would say ASMR focused, where it's more like peaceful and calming and some of those. I think there's one.

Can you explain what that for those who aren't familiar.

Yes, yes. ASMR mostly focuses on the food sounds and a lot of people find it sort of calming and almost meditative. You know, hear like the sizzle of something being seared in a pan or the bubbling of a pasta sauce. It's not for everyone. Personally, I enjoy it. So a lot of those videos, you know, they come from more of a sort of quiet, calming approach. I wouldn't say that that is the norm, but I do think it's possible. That being said, I think YouTube is a hard platform to initially gain traction in, which is the case for a lot of social media platforms. Like usually your first 1000 followers is the hardest, but I think it can be done. It's really interesting to see how people have sort of taken the genre of food and bent it in all sorts of ways. I think in general, if you show your face or your personality, statistically speaking, you're probably more likely to gain more traction. And then also if you don't want to show your face to the camera, I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing. I think there are lots of platforms who are very well Suited to that. Maybe like TikTok or Instagram is slightly better suited to that. And that might be more worth your time because YouTube videos do take longer to edit because they're longer form content. So it might not be worth your time investment if you have a different way of doing things that you prefer to stick with. Where you can go for like TikTok or Instagram, where you can post shorter content.

Yeah. Can you help me understand monetization on YouTube? Like I understand ads well on blogs. Right. So you can. Okay, what are, what is the rpm? When is that going to peak? Like, okay, December and November are going to be great. It's going to dip in January. I have an idea for that YouTube. It's like I have no idea. And in my head the number that I always use is like for. I know this depends on the genre. Like if you create like insurance content like that, you're probably gonna get paid more because you're running ads against like, like high value things like insurance or like crypto, for example. Yeah, but in the food space, like, but. Well, the number in my head that I have is like for every thousand views you get $1. Is that generally accurate or is that. Is there so many? It depends with that that it. It's not worth using that.

So. YouTube is very interesting in terms of the rate. It definitely changes. It's something I could personally look into more. It definitely changes by quarter and you're paid by video view. But what is unique about YouTube is that the ad that you get before your video can be totally unrelated to your content. It's more just based on your personal search history. And it's interesting. I don't know if you've had this experience with running a blog, but you know, sometimes your blog will run ads that people don't like and they associate it with your brand and like it. A comment or a message, political or. Yeah, yes, Exactly. But on YouTube, the ad sort of runs on a different page, you know, like the video title is different. So people sort of disassociate the ad that you see in your video or before from your content. So there's less of a connection between it and YouTube. When I first joined, anyone could join and monetize their video. So you didn't need to have a minimum amount of subscribers or watch hours. I know in the past few years, YouTube recently changed that. I'm not sure if the exact number because I already have it, but you need a certain amount of subscribers. Maybe we can add it to the show notes or Something or a certain amount of watch hours to start monetizing your account. And I will say initially, you don't make much. I was probably making it once I got accepted in the program. Maybe like $300 a month. You need to make a lot of. Have a lot of views on your videos in order to make money. And I think you'll notice too, Even the largest YouTubers, it's typically not their only income stream. They typically sell merch or maybe they go on tour, maybe they have a book or they use Patreon. Usually people have some other sort of supplemental income. Even the ones who are getting millions of views on their videos.

Yeah, And I just looked up those numbers. It's a thousand subscribers and 4,000 watch hours.

Yes. Okay.

And then that allows you to apply to the program where you can monetize content. So would you have an idea, like if you had a video with a hundred thousand views, would you have an idea of how much you'd expect to get paid for that? Or is that maybe you're not jumping into the kind of. The specifics of what that looks like?

I don't jump into the specifics too much, honestly. I can look at my creator studio, though it really depends on the month. And the thing about YouTube is it's really hard to divide it by video because you just sort of get paid every month based on the total sum of views on all of your videos. So it's more like all of my videos got this many views. They do break it down by video, I think if you look for further into the analytics. But honestly, off the top of my head, sure. I don't know. Sorry.

Yeah, as a, as a classic creator, it's like that's where the focus is.

Yeah, exactly.

Speaking of, speaking of creating. So you've talked about multiple platforms. YouTube is obviously a really significant one. At the time of recording, have 778,000 subscribers, which is incredible. How do you, how do you think about repurposing content? So you talked about YouTube being longer form. Obviously the other platforms, Instagram, TikTok, are shorter form. Are you, when you're creating content, are you kind of doing one piece, so to speak, of content that you think about repurposing into multiple different platforms.

Yes, definitely. I would say, especially for me, when I was in school, I needed to repurpose as much content as possible because I only had a certain amount of hours per week to work on something. So my mentality was if I'm making a recipe, I'm going to be posting it on my blog, I'm going to be posting it on Instagram and I'm also going to be posting it on YouTube because I don't have time to come up with three separate ideas. So that definitely helped me a lot. Nowadays I outsource more so I have more free time. But I would say initially my sort of process was is I would come up with a recipe idea for my blog, I would photograph it, I would use those photos on Instagram. That was when it was more of a photo dominant platform. And then I would also film the video and put it on YouTube. And then sort of as the Internet has changed, the YouTube default aspect is more of like the landscape ratio, which worked out perfectly because then I could edit that video down and embed that in my blog post as sort of a video player, which got me more revenue. And then I'll even say when Instagram started announcing video, I filmed a lot of the overhead like hands and pans, sort of tasty style content. So I would just rotate the YouTube video like 270 degrees and just change the asset cause I didn't have time and I'd be like that works for Instagram, so I'll just post it like that on there too. And I would say initially that worked really well for me. I've noticed over the last few years especially that Instagram and TikTok seem to prioritize like phone based content, which is interesting for me because I mean I come from like a DSLR background. I'm like, well don't we want the highest quality? But I think people are just used to seeing phone videos so that's what they want now. So nowadays I do film each recipe twice. I film it once using my phone and I use that still for Instagram and TikTok and then I film it with the other aspect and I use that for my blog videos. Sorry, I filmed that with my DSLR camera and I use it for my blog videos and then I use that in YouTube. So now usually with YouTube I've noticed that multiple recipe videos tend to do well. So maybe over the span of a month I'll be like this month we're focusing on pasta recipes. So I'll post three new pasta recipes on my blog and then I'll create a YouTube video, combine all those together and I'll say three 30 minute pasta recipes you need to try. And people tend to like longer format content and also content that can be useful in more settings. So typically multiple recipe videos for me personally do better than if I Just said, you know, like lemon pepper pasta.

Yeah. So you're, you would create three different pieces of content on your blog, which makes sense. But what you're saying is you've noticed when you round up that content on YouTube, it performs better than if each one of those was a separate piece of content. Do you have any ideas why that is?

Honestly, I think it might have something to do with clickbait. Because if my title just says, yeah, like there are here are three recipes, you're like, well, what are the recipes? They look pretty good in the photo, but I don't know exactly what they are. I also think with YouTube, people want more content, whether that could be multiple recipes. So for example, I filmed the recipe like everything I ate for lunch, like quick work week lunch ideas, and people like that because there are five to seven ideas in there. So even if one doesn't resonate with them, another one might. I think another approach that I don't personally do, but that works well is making a recipe and going super in depth with the recipe. So you see popular channels like Bon Appetit where they'll spend 12 to 20 minutes talking about a recipe, going through the process, the history, their personal connection with it. I think when people come to YouTube, they want longer format content. So whether that's more variety or more in depth, they want one or the other. I would say. And for me, with time constraints and in terms of repurposing content, it's easier for me to just stitch videos together because if I wanted a super in depth recipe, I would have to refilm that.

Yeah, we have a couple questions here coming in from the Facebook group that I would love to talk through. And one is around equipment. So you had mentioned shooting with DSLR and Julia is asking, what camera and filming equipment do you use? So any recommendations for people who are looking for equipment?

Yeah, so for my blog, YouTube and like food photography, I still use DSLR cameras just because I think, you know, the photo content, like quality is better. People typically stick to one brand. So I'm a, I'm a Canon girl, so I have a Canon 5D, I think Mark 3 that I use for my photos and then for videos I have. Unfortunately, they don't make this anymore, I don't think. But it's the Canon 70D. It has a flip screen that you can rotate all the way. So I have found that personally helpful, I would say. Nowadays mirrorless cameras are pretty much on par with DSLR cameras. And the video quality is, I would say, slightly better. I Haven't changed my system just because I've already invested money into it and it's working well for me. But if I was someone looking to invest in a system, I would maybe look into that. The bite shot. She has a YouTube channel. I think she has been on this podcast, but I would really recommend her. Joanie knows what she's talking about in terms of photography, and I think she has a whole blog post on cameras that she recommends if you're looking for more specifics. But that's what I use for blogging, YouTube, and then for Instagram, I just use. I have an iPhone 13. I actually have a separate phone. It has no service attached to it. I just use it for work. And it's great because it keeps me focused when I'm actually working. But I was at the point where I wanted a different camera. I wanted something that shot in more 4k or had higher quality for Instagram videos. And I was like, well, an iPhone's basically the same price as a camera. It seems like people are preferring this content. So I decided to just purchase an iPhone. And I will say, once I started posting iPhone videos, for some reason, they did seem to get more traction on Instagram and TikTok. That could be anecdotal, but I thought it was interesting.

One of the weird things about the algorithm is like, is this what it is? It sure seems like it. But yeah, it's hard to confirm. We. We did the same thing. And if you have the budget for it. Right. That's the big consideration. But it's really nice to be able to separate your work phone from your personal phone. And you can also then keep, like, the thousands of random food images out of your photo stream as an example. One of the things you had mentioned was outsourcing. Is there. What does that look like for you and how have you been strategic about outsourcing? Because you had mentioned that resulting in just having more free time as well.

Yeah. So as my business has grown, I've definitely started to outsource more, you know, as you said, the tasks that I don't feel super passionate about doing. So it initially started with my manager, who oversees my partnerships, and then after that, I ended up hiring a virtual assistant who helped with my email scheduling. That's just something I'm not interested in. So I was happy to let someone else do that for me. So they do more email scheduling and then they respond to blog comments that don't necessarily need my expertise. Whereas, like, thanking someone for making a recipe or offering, like, Simpson substitution And then since then I have also hired a video editor, which saved me a lot of time because editing videos can be very labor intensive, especially for longer format content like YouTube. She helps me a lot. And then I also have someone who helps me format my blog posts and does more copywriting. I write a basic skeleton of a recipe and she sort of fills in. Because nowadays it's not really about sharing a personal story, it's more answering 20 semi related questions to the recipe and providing specific details on how to make something. So Google is happy, so she handles that for me so I can focus more on creating the content.

Yeah. How did you find those people to work with?

My manager reached out to me and then actually for the rest of the people, I actually pulled my audience because I wanted someone who is interested, already interested in my blog and passionate about the work that I did. And I just created a Google form and I said I asked them a variety of questions based on their availability and I had them submit a resume. The video I was more particular about, I did have people edit like a trial video versus just applying and then based on your resume getting accepted. But I thought it was good to sort of pull my audience just because they already knew my style, my theme, sort of what my essential core values were for the blog and how I wanted it to grow versus looking at some other website where someone might not be as familiar with my content. And it's sort of more of a learning curve initially.

So is that like a social media post that you put out an email that you sent? Hey, we're hiring. As an example, we're hiring for a virtual assistant. Here's where the job is, here's how you can apply.

Yeah, personally I've always just done it through Instagram. I would just post an Instagram story with a link and for me I had an overwhelming response, so I didn't feel like I needed to further do it. So I think I posted the link twice. So there were two 24 hour windows where someone could apply and. And I ended up getting hundreds of applicants through there and that was already overwhelming enough for me. So I just cut it off at that. But email would definitely been my second route.

Sure, yeah. So as we come to the end here, I'm curious to hear your reflections on what the most important things were for you as you grew your business. Like if you look back at the last six years, seven years, the things that you can pinpoint as like, hey, this was really important and it might not have been like a single moment, but like Maybe a mindset you had or something you consistently did, or maybe it was a single moment that was really important, a concept that you learned. Is there anything that you're able to look back on to say, you know what? Like this was really significant from the moment that I was like, I'm not going to go in the direction of physical therapy, I'm going to go in the direction of being a creator. And till now, where you have a team, you know, you're extremely successful business. What were those things along the way that you feel like were most significant?

I think with YouTube especially, but with all my social media platforms, one of the biggest things for me has been really connecting with and trying to understand my audience. Because as a creator, you know, I have certain projects or recipes that I want to create. But I've always valued my audience's feedback, whether through an Instagram poll, asking them if there's any recipes they want me to make or on YouTube, especially paying attention to the videos that people are choosing to interact with and the comments that they're leaving, whether it's asking for more or asking for further clarification on a topic. That was how I came up with a lot of my content ideas initially, sort of listening to what people wanted and then from there, you know, if you're listening to your audience and creating content that they're asking for, they're more likely to watch it again. But I think it really helped me have an understanding of what my audience was looking for. In my niche specifically, I try to focus on easier recipes that, you know, you don't need to be a five star chef to make, but they're still tasty and approachable. And I think as I've continued to listen to my audience create content like that, you create a dedicated group of people who are interested in seeing, you know, my take on a chocolate chip cookie, it may not be the top ranking one on Google, but because we have this long term relationship and they trust my recipes, they're going to see if from my bowl has a cookie recipe before going to Google, which is very valuable.

Yeah, I love that. It's one of the things that I think is really underrated, which is talking and listening to your audience and being humble in not assuming you know what people want, but letting them inform you of that. And there's obviously a balance with that where you want to make sure it's still stuff that you're interested in and passionate about, but as long as they're kind of already following you, there's a good Chance that it aligns with directionally where you want to go.

Yeah.

So, last question for you. You're. You zoom back in time and you're sitting in a biology class learning about whatever physical therapists learn about. And. And you're like future self sits down next to your past self and you're like, hey, here's some advice. What would the advice be? This would be more like mindset. What would the advice be that you'd give to your past self as you're entering into this journey?

Honestly, I think I would tell myself to worry less and trust in myself more, which might be a common response. But, you know, coming from the whole uncertainty, is this going to be my full time career? Should I drop out of school? Initially, I was definitely comparing myself to a lot of other creators, which I think is something a lot of creators get caught up in. I see what five different people are doing really well, and I think I need to do all five of those things. But at the end of the day, that just sort of leaves you scattered. But the more I listen to myself and this is what I personally am passionate about, these are what my strengths are. I need to trust that my audience will sort of find me. I think that's when I started to create content that resonated more with other people and I was able to sort of pave my own path. And now I have, you know, some things that I'm great at, some things that other people are great at. And there's plenty of space on the Internet for everyone.

That's awesome, Caitlin. If people want to follow along with what you're up to, where do they go?

You can find me on YouTube at Caitlin Shoemaker and then everywhere else. Instagram and TikTok and my blog, it's from my bowl.com for the blog.

Awesome. Thanks, Caitlin. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

Thanks for having me. Hello. Hello, Leslie here from the Food Blogger Pro team. We really hope that you enjoyed this episode. Before we sign off, I wanted to quickly mention the Food Blogger Pro podcast Facebook group in case you haven't joined yet. It is a great place that you can go to to continue the conversation outside of our episodes. So in the Facebook group, we do open calls for interview ideas, we do Q&As with podcast guests so you can ask the guests questions based on the episodes. And then we also have an opportunity for you to submit your own questions for upcoming interviews. So in the Facebook group, you can help shape the future of the podcast and the episodes. And it's just a fantastic community place to continue the conversation and interact with our guests. So if you haven't joined and you would like to do so, you can join the Facebook group by going to foodbloggerpro.com Facebook. You'll be asked to answer just a few short questions and then we'll approve your registration and you'll have full access to the Facebook group. That's all we've got for you today, though. Thanks again for tuning in and until next time, make it a great week. Sam.