381: Developing Foolproof Recipes with Katie Webster

This episode is sponsored by Clarity. C L A R I T I. Here's the question. Are you manually keeping track of your blog posts on a spreadsheet or project management tool? Maybe it's like Airtable or Asana. Or maybe you're not even keeping track of anything at all. When it comes to optimizing and organizing your content, how do you know what to change and how do you know what you're doing is actually moving the needle? With Clarity, all of that stuff is easier. It's easier to keep track of things. It's easier to know if the changes you're making are having an impact. And that's why we built it. We realized that we were using spreadsheets and cobbling together a system, and we wanted to create something that did that for you. And Clarity brings together WordPress data, Google data, like Google Search Console, and Google Analytics, and it brings all of that information into one place to allow you to make decisions and also inform you about the decisions that you've made and if they're having an impact. I could talk on and on about the features, but the best way to understand it is to get in and to work with the tool yourself. And the good news is clarity is offering 50% off of your first month if you sign up. And you can do that by going to clarity.com food again, that's C-L-A-R-I-T-I.com food to check it out. Thanks to Clarity for sponsoring this episode. Hey there. This is Bjork Hostrom. You're listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. Today we are having a conversation with Katie Webster. She has a site called Healthy Seasonal Recipes and Deep Experience in Recipe Development. And we're going to be talking about her history with that and also recommendations for anybody who's creating recipes to create a strong process and system around the recipe development that you are doing. And we all know that that's a really critical piece. It's a really critical component of building a successful site is making sure that the content that you're putting out, not just like the structure and, you know, the. The organization of the content, but like the actual meat of the content, for lack of a better word. The recipe itself needs to be really good. That's what it's all about. And she's gonna be talking about how she makes sure that every recipe that she puts out is quality. And she's gonna be talking about different jobs that she's had and her history of recipe development, how that's led her to success with her blog. So let's go ahead and jump in. Katie, welcome to the po.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, we're going to be talking about all things recipe development. Because your background is in recipe development. In some ways we're all doing versions of that, but really you've been doing it as a career, as your work for a long time and I'd be curious to know what that looks like. So take us back to when you first started in the world of recipe development. What were you doing? And you know, what did, what did your work look like at that point?

Yeah, so I started out, I went to culinary school. I was on the sort of restaurant track and. He's now my husband, but back then he was my boyfriend. His family was always joking that I was the made up girlfriend. That didn't really exist.

Nobody ever saw.

Because I just was always working and the lifestyle of working in, you know, a restaurant was really not. I realized it wasn't for me and so I, I quit and I went on to like a job listing forum for graduates from my culinary school and there was a listing for a personal chef. And I ended up getting this job, but it was only part time and so I needed to figure out how to, you know, fill the rest of that week. And I ended up getting a part time job working in the test kitchen at Eating well magazine. I had, my mom's friend had worked there and got me an interview and so I ended up starting out working in, in publishing, so in print as opposed to, you know, being online.

So did you the personal chef thing, was that just like an inroad to like the idea of working in other industries or did you actually do that as well?

I did end up doing that for a few years, so I ended up sort of working part time at Eating well and Personal Chefing. So I started out working for one client who had special dietary needs. She had celiac, but she also had like major gut issues. And so I worked for her for a few years and then I ended up starting like a little catering and personal chefing business as well. And I specialized in healthy cooking, but also cooking for people with special diets. But you know, I live in Vermont and so there's only, there's, it's a pretty small population and so I really needed two different jobs. So that's. So working at Eating well was great because it was part time and at the time they were only doing four magazines a year and so they didn't need me that much. So it was a Good balance of the two.

What was it like to do, what's the role, like a personal chef? When I hear that, I'm like, gosh, that must be so interesting. Not only because of the work that you're doing, but I'd also imagine it's interesting to work with people who are in a position where it makes sense for them to hire a personal chef.

Oh, gosh. Yeah. Oh, it was, it was such a dream, I have to say. I mean, it was really incredible. So it started out where I was working for this one woman and she definitely was a person of means. She had, you know, two kitchens. She had like the fancy kitchen and then like my back kitchen, which was like a galley kitchen. And it was like set up with like tons of equipment and it was like super efficient. And I would cook and then I'd go like, display everything in fancy dishes in her refrigerator and she'd like, oh, what am I going to eat tonight? And then from there I ended up launching this like personal chef delivery business, which was much more geared to the everyday person. And it was. I had people who. I had one guy who was a bodybuilder who was like trying to constantly like build. And so he wanted all these like high protein things. This was back, low carb was pretty popular. The south beach diet was really popular. So I had several clients who were on the south beach diet. And then of course, since I had this experience with the gluten free cooking, I also ended up with a couple other gluten free diet clients. So, yeah, it was fun. Like with the delivery stuff, it was definitely like I would deliver to them once a week kind of a thing and I had like different packages that people could choose from. So that was really fun. It was a lot of work and a lot of sort of running around all the time. Not something that probably would work, like as a mom, it would probably be hard to make that work.

Yeah, right. Schedule wise, it's not very. It's not something that you can adapt around. It requires you. Yeah. At certain times. What did you learn in that process? So in the context for that question is, I think a lot of times our previous experiences fold into our future experiences and we can learn whether it's within a job or a business that we've had. In this case, for you, it's a business. What did you learn in the process of building those two businesses?

I think that doing the personal chefping business was super important to becoming, ultimately becoming a freelancer as a recipe developer because I learned about creating Boundaries with clients and creating like. And how to deal with writing a contract and creating packages to sell my product. I had no idea how to do that. And my mom's friend was a business coach, and she was like, you know, she sort of took me under her wing, and she was like, you know, you really need to create these packages because you can't just go out there and say, I'll cook for you. You know, it's much easier to go out and say, I will cook for you. These are the three products that I offer. You know, you can get once a week, delivery once every other week, or you can get two times a week or whatever it was. And then to have a pricing structure in, set up so that then when, you know, somebody comes to me, I don't have to spend six hours trying to price out what they're looking for. It's already pretty much set in place. And I definitely applied that when I went into freelance recipe development to saying, okay, well, now I offer six recipe packages, that kind of thing. The other thing I learned from that process was how to be a better cook because, well, for example, the woman who I cooked for, she was not afraid to give me feedback. And I remember, like, she was really into, like, stews. And I remember one time I was sort of short on time and I didn't sear the meat before I. Before I added the liquids. And she called me on it.

She let you know about it.

I don't know why this doesn't taste as good. And, you know, it was really that kind of experience where I was learning from, from, you know, feedback that I really sort of was like, oh, gosh, this makes a huge difference in whether or not something's going to be successful. So I think both of those things were two things that I brought with me.

So in the world of recipe development, so you're doing the personal chef stuff, but then you're also doing some of the recipe development for Eating well Magazine. How do you apply that same level of kind of that standard, but internally, like, for yourself? Like, you. You talked about learning to kind of for that quality standard, but what does that look like for you to have your own personal standard? And how do you know when a recipe's done? Like, at what point you're like, yes, this is good enough.

Oh, well, I have a whole process of, you know, developing a recipe. When I. I think when I first started writing, like, recipes for my blog, I was. I was more likely to put something out that I wasn't 100% behind. But as I started to get more and more readers, I definitely, I was like, oh, gosh, this better be good, because it's got my name on it. And I think, you know, being in a test kitchen at eating well, the standard, you know, there's tastings, you know, everybody has to agree that it's good enough to print it, so, you know, that's easy. But, like, for me, like, I have to really like it and feel like it tastes really good. And then, you know, of course, I've got my family to taste it as well. I don't know if that answers your question.

No, for sure. And let's talk about that process, because I think that's one of the things that as people get into systems around their business, whether that be content or publishing or, you know, whatever it is, there's all these different components that we have to navigate as creators, or one of the most important systems or processes would be around the development of recipes. And for those who aren't as familiar with that, I think there could be a lot that we could learn from somebody who is very familiar with it. So what is your system like when it comes to developing a recipe? And we could go, like, from idea to when you actually press, publish on it.

Okay, so my. So at eating well, I was trained on how to develop a recipe, and they had, like, a whole system that they use, and I really took that as my own when I started doing it on my own. So, yes, absolutely. It starts with the idea of the. Of the recipe. Of course, now with food blogging, that's all wrapped up in the whole SEO thing, keyword research and all that stuff. But actually, the first thing I do once I have my concept is I actually type the recipe first. And I know that sounds really backwards for a lot of people, but I have found over the years that if I do that, the recipe is so much clearer and has far fewer mistakes. If I start out with a first draft, and I call it my hypothesis draft, because it's never been done before, and it's just a guess of how it's going to go. But I use a recipe template. So, like, I use Word, and I just keep it a template there that has all of the components of the recipe, and then what are those components? Oh, so you've got your. Well, let me pull one up here.

Sure.

So. So you've got your.

So this is in Word. You're opening up Word. And within Word is a template that you've built, like a recipe.

And when you have recipe, recipe, or yeah, Recipe template. So there's the title, the yield, the servings, which are two different things. Active time, cook time, and total time. So I do active time as opposed to prep time, because I think that that's much more helpful for the reader than prep time.

Can you explain the difference between those?

So prep time would be the amount of time that you spend before you start cooking. Active time is the amount of time that you are paying attention to the food. You are in the kitchen, busy working with the food. If you can walk away for some for like five minutes or more, that's no longer active time. Prep time connotes just the time that is spent prior to turning on the stove or the oven. And then my, my template has a recipe description. So that is what would end up going into that field in the tasting.

Yeah, Like a description.

Is it called recipe description and tasting?

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't even know. Yeah. And then I also put my keywords in there, too. And then the ingredient list, the method, and then I have a section at the bottom where I put in the nutrition, so the calories, all that. And then I have the ingredient notes, tips and make aheads. So that's all part of my template.

So when I said, before we get too far away from it, was servings and yield being different. Can you explain that?

Oh, sure. So servings is the. So the yield would be. Makes eight cups. Servings would be. Makes four servings, two cups each. So it's, it's different. And so, you know, it's just more information for the user basically, to have both those things I was going to tell you about.

Yes. Before I interrupted you. So. But to recap. So what I find interesting is you're not just like jumping in and going through the process of creating a recipe and experimenting. It's almost like you're kind of developing a hypothesis around how that recipe will be made and then you're going through the process of actually making it. So it's like you have the kind of framework of what it might look like before you go in and actually start working on. Is that generally speaking, what this step is like?

Yes. So I'll truly type the recipe out and I'll write out the ingredient list. I'll write out all the measurements, all of the method and the timing. And I know a lot of it's going to be wrong, but it's all there. And so I have to really think it through. So I think that your first test is more likely to be successful if you've really thought it through, and all the information is there, so that when you are testing it, you're like, oh, I thought that it was going to be four to five minutes. And so you set your timer for four to five minutes, and then it actually ends up being six to seven. And you have, you know, something written down where it's like sort of like a placeholder for where you would change that.

Got it. Yeah. And it's. I can imagine with that process, one of the things that's really nice is you're doing some critical thinking before you get into stuff that's a little bit higher stakes, like putting ingredients together, and. And. And it kind of forces you. It's a forcing function to think through things, to be slow with it a little bit, and to make kind of a prediction of what you think it will be. How accurate would you say that first version is compared to what it ends up being eventually?

For a baking recipe, it's usually like the first of six versions. For dinner, saute kind of a thing, the first of three or four. It really depends on the recipe. Once I written that hypothesis draft, I print it out and I take it into the kitchen with me with my pen, with my scales and my measuring cups, and I start a timer, write down the time I started, and I mark that document up extensively as I test and I make changes in live time. Sometimes I'll get to it and I'll be like, I can't believe I wrote down that I need a quarter teaspoon of salt. That's not nearly enough. And I'll change it on the spot. It's there for me to fix. Then from there, once I have tested it, then I'll take that, go in and edit it, change it, change the title from, you know, example recipe E1 to example recipe E2. And then I have a second version that I'll print out. Staple that on top of the E1, and then I take that back into the kitchen. Same process over and over again. Next One is an E3 until I'm like, this thing is bulletproof. I've tested every single element in here. I know that it's going to work for me and my kitchen and for someone in their kitchen at home who isn't an expert chef.

Yeah. What does the E stand for? Or did you say V?

E? That's from eating well. I got that all from eating well. I actually don't even know what E stands for.

Oh, funny. It's just one of those holdovers of, like, that was the process. And so that's I have all sorts.

Of weird stuff like that. Like when you don't know something and you need to find out, it says there's a capital T, capital K is what you put in as a placeholder. And I'm. I don't know what that stands for either.

Still use it. Yeah. So I really like that idea. It's almost like the versions are stacking on each other and you can start to see. My guess is from version one to version two, a lot of changes. Two to three, not as many three to four, probably even less. At what point do you know, what point do you call it good? Like, do you try and get two recipes in a row when you're are like, made it once, it was good, I'm going to make it again. Make sure that's good. Or at this point, are you confident enough with that final one once you've nailed it to know, like, great, this is, this is good.

Usually my, like when I go to shoot, it will be my final test, you know, where I'm like, the last time I made it, it was good and everybody enjoyed it. And when I go to shoot it, like, I might find a typo or something like that. But at that point, I'm not trying to adjust measurements or anything like that.

Yeah, that makes sense. It's. We, we have a question from Robin from the Facebook group for those one want to jump in foodblockerpro.com Facebook and sometimes we'll get some questions that we ask in the podcast interview. This is related to documenting. Robin's asking, do you take pictures and record videos of the process during your first test just in case it comes out perfect the first time? Or do you wait until you have kind of nailed it to go through the documentation process?

No, I don't. And the reason I don't is that I'm always timing myself. So, like, to get that active time, total time, all that accurate, you can't be taking photographs. You need to be actually cooking. So. Yeah. And also I find that so distracting and like using a different part of my brain anyway that I. And I also, I test recipes, like when I'm making dinner. Like, I test it 5 o' clock at night in my house while my kids are running around and you know, asking me to sign stuff or whatever.

Right. Field trip forms or something. Yeah.

So, yeah, that's, that's enough of a hindrance to getting an accurate time.

Yeah. But I think that it's a service for your readers that you're so insistent on that. Like, hey, I'M going to make sure that when I put in timing here, that it's the actual amount of time that it takes. What I hear you saying is if you're also then trying to do photography or, you know, video or something like that, that's not going to give you an accurate representation of how much time that it's taking. So I think, I think that's great. Related to that, another question that Robin had is around timing. So if you were to guess, how much time would you say that you put into recipe development, keyword research, and trying out the recipe before your first recipe test? So almost in that, like, pre stage, getting it ready, getting it prepared, researching, would you have a guess as to how much goes into that before you actually go into the process of actually testing the recipe?

I actually, I mean, for example, I was thinking about doing a brown rice risotto in my instant pot, but I've never made even white rice risotto in my instant pot. And so I was like, well, I should try this. So I looked up a recipe and I tried it. That's probably all I'll really do for like a pre, pre hypothesis draft step is, you know, like. Or like, I'll go to a cookbook and I'll, you know, use a recipe from a cookbook if I'm not familiar with something, because, yeah, in general, I want to create something new. So.

Yep, that makes sense. So we go through the process of first drafting it up. You have a template within Word where you're entering everything in, taking some time to do that, print it out. Do you have like a clipboard that you put it on?

I am a clipboard queen. I have it right here.

Awesome. So you put it on the clipboard and you'll mark it up as you're going through and attempting to kind of replicate that first version, continue to do iterations on that. Eventually you get to the point where you say, great, I feel good about this. And then you make it one more time after that to document the process. Is that right?

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Great. What does it look like from that point? Is it then going into the publishing stage where you're entering it into WordPress, you're bringing the photos in, editing the photos. Anything that you'd add to that kind of in the development stage that's worth noting?

No, I mean, you know, there were some things that I learned from the eating well process. There are lots of parts of the testing process that aren't in the kitchen. For example, the test kitchen manager when I was there she used to say testing always starts at the grocery store.

What did she mean by that?

What she meant is you have your ingredient list. When you go into the store. Is there such a thing as a 10 ounce box of lasagna noodles? No, there actually isn't. And so knowing that or like I did an enchilada recipe and I called for a certain number of enchiladas in the recipe. And then I got to the store, thought I was buying a package of enchiladas or of tortillas that had enough for the recipe. And I come home and I'm like, oh, there's only eight in here. This isn't enough to make a whole batch of enchiladas. So it's that kind of thing where you're, you're just, you know, making sure that this recipe actually will be replicable.

Right.

In any grocery store, in any town.

Yeah. And so that being an important critical piece of it. Other things that you learned from eating? Well, kind of maybe like do's and don'ts of recipe testing. Things that you'd consider to be like, yeah, that you do and things that you learn that you don't learn, that you don't do.

Yeah, they, they had a very rigid system, so they do nutritional analysis for everything. So we had to weigh our food like before and after cooking. Sometimes like for example, if you had a bone in meat and you were to discard the fat and bones after braising or something like that, you would weigh your roast before and then after the braise, you would literally pick it apart and just weigh out what the edible portion was in order to use that for the nutritional analysis. They were very strict about timing. One of the things that we learned about was using, we had a gas stove and an electric stove and we always tested on both. Obviously that's not something we can do as food bloggers, but I have a stove that has different size burners. I will test it on the medium burner and on the high, the big burner too, to create a range. Because not everybody has a high powered burner, you know, in their house. But some people only have that things like, oh, for example, I developed a recipe for the magazine that was a breakfast bar. And the whole time I tested it, I tested it in this one pan and then we started getting letters about it and it was burning because turns out the pan that I had tested it in was an insulated pan.

Oh, interesting. Which most people wouldn't have.

Yeah, totally. And so I think, you know, the, as a food Blogger. Obviously we can change a recipe on the fly if we need to, so that's good. But it's important to remember to like, if you have two different crock pots, try it in. In the two different crock pots or try it in the different pans. Because like a cast iron pan and a stainless pan, to just create as. As much. To get as much information as possible and create those ranges so that your reader can be successful.

Yeah, interesting. It's all of those little things that you don't learn until it happens. Like that filter doesn't exist in your mind until you go through it and it actually happens to you. So then you think, oh, what type of pan is this? And is it one that is going to be common for people or not common?

Yeah, that's great. I think the only other thing I would say that they sort of were really sticklers about was about sort of like isolating variables. Like if you're doing a subsequent test to not change too many things at once because then you won't. You don't necessarily know what it is that affected the change. If you change a bunch of things at once.

Yeah. So one factor at a time allows you to know the impact that changing that one factor has versus multivariate testing where you're like, hey, I'm going to change five things turned out really well. But you don't know the one thing that really contributed was it everything. So being selective about what you're changing along the way, that makes sense, right? How about staying organized? Like, my guess is for anybody listening to this, they could relate to the fact that you have like hundreds of ideas. You're maybe testing things, multiple things at a time. What does it look like for you in terms of organization as it relates to kind of the different stages of things, but also ideas that you have. Any advice for people in that regard?

I actually have like, I use a spreadsheet to organize where everything is in terms of it. Like I told you about my E version. So that is like within this there's. I have a whole spreadsheet where it's like, it's actually, I use it at the very bottom. I have just like a junk pile of like recipe concepts where I'll just throw ideas in there and eventually they'll make it up onto the actual list where it's all organized by date and it has a checklist moving across where it's like Hypothesis, draft written 1st test, 2nd test, 3rd test, photos taken, video shot. You know, it's got all those checklists but then I work from paper. I always try to keep my recipes printed out. I am a firm believer in that. Having written my cookbook and worked with editors, just having those documents with all of your notes on them has saved my behind so many times when they come back and they ask, well, you know, why? Where did this change come from? You know, and to go back and see where those changes crept in, maybe it was on the second version of it, that kind of thing. It's really helpful. Excuse me. And I. I usually. I keep everything. Well, I have, like, my active pile, and then I file everything from there. And so, like, I have, you know, 20 years worth of files.

That's awesome. Of all of these recipes that you've done. One of the things that I think about as you talk about that is how bad our brain is at storing information. Like, it's a really bad storage facility for information and, you know, remembering a change that you made. And so if you develop processes around documenting, you're going to be so much better off because you'll be able to look back and say, like, why did I change that? Maybe you'll have a note on what you changed. But even more helpful if you have a reason why you changed it. And we think in the moment, for myself, at least, I think that I'll remember that. But I never do like that. Even if I'm, like, parking somewhere and I'm coming back six hours later, like, I need to take a picture of the parking garage and what level I'm on, because I won't remember unless I document it. So I love that. As a takeaway, when we think about the development process. So how about, you know, I know you've gone through the process of writing a cookbook. We just did a series on, you know, blogger to cookbook. What did that process look like and how did it differ from when you're publishing on your blog to when you were doing something for a cookbook, which feels a little bit higher stakes when it's going to be printed as opposed to on a website where you can go back and change or tweak something.

Yeah, it was. Oh, it was way faster. Way, way, way faster. It was so stressful.

How quickly you had to produce content.

Yeah, we signed our contract for the book deal in the summer, and it was due New Year's, so I had a very short window of time to develop 100 recipes. So what I ended up doing there was I really had to batch everything, and I wrote probably 40 hypothesis drafts in a matter of, like, a week, you know, like I just sat down and cranked. And then I ended up needing to work with individuals to help cross test. So I did the first test of every single recipe. But then from there I had various people helping me. And when that, when I went through that process, I used Eating Wells test report form. I adapted it for my own and I used that to send to my cross testers. So this is a form that they use for the testing process where you have to document in addition to what you write on the hard copy of the recipe, you have to write notes in it. So it asks you questions like, are there any variables that may have affected the results of your test? And so you'd say, yes, I, you know, I used an insulated baking pan.

Right. For instance, speaking from experience.

Yes. And so I assigned that to like, or I sent that to all of my cross testers and every single time that they tested it, they needed to submit both a photograph or, you know, a scan of their hard copy and all the notes that they took on there, but then also their test report form. And then I, you know, that that whole process was a whole can of worms, you know, just managing a team of cross testers. Excuse me, but it was, it was, it was necessary in order to get those recipes to the point where I felt comfortable putting them into a book. Because you're right, like, there is no going back and changing it once it's been published.

So it, the thing that I would imagine would be hard, which you kind of alluded to, is you have a tight system, you have a process, but as soon as you bring other people in, what you're having to do then is kind of train them on a system or process. But I think the upside of that is you, it's a little bit more of a real stress test out in the wild. Like, here's a recipe, can you make it? Somebody's like, I, I couldn't figure out why, you know, I, it was so sweet. And it's like, well, how much sugar did you put in? They're like, well, I put in a cup. And it's like, no, that's like a half a cup. And they're like, well, I thought it was like one or two cups, like something weird like that, like one slash two, like your option. But also like weird little nuanced stuff like that exists within the world, which I think anybody can relate to if they've ever published something or given instructions to somebody and watch them try and follow it. So was that part of it? Was Allowing people to see the process or to. To create something and to not only, like, give feedback on the recipe itself, but also just, are there, like, formatting changes or ways I could communicate this more clearly? Even if it was accurately communicated, is there a way to, like, shift or adjust so people understand it better?

Yeah, I mean, I definitely, through that process, learned a lot about being more. I guess I don't know what word I would use, but I definitely like. For example, I had one tester who always went off script.

Sure. Like, I'm going to improvise a little bit on this.

Yes.

Yeah.

And so, like, for her, like, when I knew that that was happening, like, it was almost like I needed to explain to her why I was doing something. Like. So I would say, you know, one teaspoon of grated ginger, and then she would write back and say, well, I didn't grate my ginger. I chopped it. And I'm like, okay, well, a chopped teaspoon of ginger is going to be a lot fluffier and have actual less ginger in it than a teaspoon of grated ginger. And so, you know, now I need to know. Now I need to add a little tip at the bottom of the recipe and explain why we like to grate our ginger. And if you don't have a grater, use 2 teaspoons of finely chopped instead or something like that.

Yep, that makes sense. And it feels like you could potentially go down that rabbit hole in many different ways. So there's. At some point you have to draw the line and say, like, I'm gonna assume that people are gonna follow this, but if you get enough feedback on something, maybe tweak it or change it, but it feels like there's an art and there's a science with it, and it's hard to know for sure. Like, I guess the. What I'm getting at is, like, over communication versus simple communication and finding that balance between those two things, really, with anything, not just recipes.

Yeah. I mean, so that gets into the whole world of the recipe writing part, which is definitely. I have strong opinions about that. And I know there's, like, you know, very different sides of that, But I think, you know, I have. The way that I write my recipes is very structured, based on coming from a print world where we needed to fit our recipes into galleys, and there was no room for extra words, and there's no rooms for, you know, flowery language. And so, you know, I. I feel like being, you know, sort of stuck within that framework of this very rigid you know, sentence structure, blah, blah, blah. You know, I think that I'm sort of forced into being very clear for people.

Yeah, that makes sense. So as we come to an end here, I think of the people who are just getting started out, and they know that they love this world, they know that they love food and recipes, but they maybe don't feel quite confident as somebody who's going to, like, develop a recipe that they can publish that somebody's going to make. What would your advice be to that person who's in the early stages, just starting out, excited about it, but maybe not super confident. Anything that you would tell those people who are kind of in the early stages.

I would say to don't be afraid to mess up. It's better for you to make a mistake in your home kitchen when you're testing a recipe than your readers should be making the mistakes. And so it's okay to come across errors and recipes. It's okay to burn something. That's how you know how to explain to someone not to burn something. I think the other thing that I would say is it's just super. I think the most important thing is to create a consistent writing style. There's like, there's a book called the Recipe Writer's Handbook. They have. It's a great book. So if you're just getting started, it's a. It's a great way to learn how to write a recipe. They give you a guideline of how to build your sentence structure. And so if you follow that, you're not going to forget to do things like explain the timing and the degree of doneness. That way you're going to include all of the elements that you need to include to make somebody successful, because that's ultimately what your goal is, to get your readers to be successful.

Yeah. What was the name of that book?

The Recipe Writer's Handbook.

Okay, cool. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. One of the things I think a lot about is just the formal education process. You go through college, right? You learn a specific thing. One of the ways that you do that is textbooks, like, and lectures. And I think in one way this is a lecture. It's somebody sitting down and hearing something. But, like, what's the accompanying textbook? What's the thing that we can go to and learn about? And almost for anything in the world that exists, like, you can learn about all of these different things that we have questions about, whether it be, you know, podcasts or videos or in this case, a book that somebody can look through. So Katie, this is awesome. I know that people are going to be able to take little nuggets from this, apply it to what they're doing, little by little will make the recipe world a more accurate, better, higher probability of success world through conversations like this. But I'm for anybody who wants to follow up with you to connect with you. Can you talk a little bit about your site and you know you've been doing that for a long time and have had a lot of success with that. So talk about where that is and if people want to connect with you on social, where can they do that?

Sure. My website is healthy seasonalrecipes.com and I can be found online on social. Facebook is Healthy Seasonal Recipes. But then on Instagram, Pinterest and Twitter I am Healthy Seasonal.

Awesome. That's great. Katie. Thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

It has been a true pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Hey there Alexa here and thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Food Blogger Pro podcast. We appreciate you being here so much. And if you want to go even deeper into the topics of recipe development, food blogging, business owning and more, we really encourage you to check out the Food Blogger Pro membership so you can learn what's included by going to foodbloggerpro.com.au join that's J O I n and there you can sign up for either an annual or a quarterly membership and you get access to everything we have on the site as soon as you sign up. It's a really great thing to do to just make a ton of progress on your blog because we have courses, we have a community forum, we have experts that help out our members, we have different events and it's just a really positive place to be. I really love it and I think you will will too. So I wanted to give you a little bit of an inside scoop onto what we're planning for Food Blogger Pro this month. So Thursday, November 10th we have our live Q and A. So each month we have a live Q and A where members can ask their questions to either Bjork or whoever is hosting the Q and A. This month it's going to be Leslie and I and we're going to be talking about creating great recipes. So if you enjoyed this episode with Katie, you will definitely get a lot out of that Q and a. Then on November 17th, we're releasing our brand new updated Instagram for Food Creators course. As you know, Instagram changes very often, so we wanted to give this course a nice refresh and that'll be available for all members on the 17th. And then we have a blog post all about the foods that are trending this winter coming up at the end of the month. That's just a really nice place to go if you want to build out your content calendar for the next couple of months. So we're really excited. We have a great month planned for our members. And of course, like I mentioned, you can go to foodbloggerpro.com join if you're interested in becoming a part of the membership. But that does it for us this week. We will see you next time. And until then, make it a great week.

Sa.