431: The Highs and Lows of Being a Food Creator for Over a Decade with Lauren Toyota from Hot for Food

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Hey there. This is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team and you're listening to the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. This week on the podcast, Bjork is interviewing Lauren Toyota from the food blog Hot for Food. This is Lauren's second time on the podcast. She last joined us in 2016 and she's been blogging for almost a decade. In the past decade, she's had huge success with her blog and YouTube channel. She's published two cookbooks. She has 450,000 subscribers on YouTube. And that's just the beginning. This is one of my favorite interviews we've had in a while because Lauren is incredibly honest and open about her business over the last 10 years. She shares a lot about how her mindset has changed in recent years since becoming a mom and thanks to the pandemic. And she openly shares her struggles and how she views the future of Hot for Food. Lauren also shares a little bit more about how, how she's approaching creating content for her business right now and why she decided to start a membership called Edit on her website and what that process has looked like. Like I mentioned, it's a super honest and vulnerable interview and I think it will resonate with everyone who listens. I can't wait for you to hear it, so I'll just let Bjork take it away.

Lauren, welcome back to the podcast.

I am very excited to be chatting. I haven't done a podcast in a while.

Yeah, we, we were debriefing re briefing. Pre briefing, I guess maybe is the right word before we pressed record and we're like, 2016 was when we talked last and it's just so crazy. I think anytime you do something on the Internet longer than five years, it's like you need to have a little badge, like a Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts badge. It's like five years of doing the same thing on the Internet and we've both done that. You've been creating content online, video. You have a background expertise in video. I've been doing the podcast, but also a lot has changed and a lot is the same. And we're going to be talking about some of that stuff today and just kind of catch up and hear where you're at. So this is maybe an unfair question because there's so much packed into it. But in between these years, it's kind of like seeing an old high school friend and saying, like, what have you been up to? And it's like, I haven't seen you in 15 years. But in those seven years, my guess is a lot has changed for you. Maybe some things are the same.

What were the things?

What would be the things that you would surface as? Like, hey, these things are some of the similar things and these things are the things that are very different now than when we last chatted.

Well, I didn't. It's crazy when you say 2016 because that was so early in this journey of doing Hot for food, my food YouTube channel and everything. At that point, I don't even know if I had considered doing a cookbook. Like, it might have been something I was tossing around. But since then I've done two cookbooks. I put out the first in 2018, which was I think a massive success and like blew any of my expectations out of the water. And then I did a second one that came out in 2021 that was sort of tail end of pandemic and that was a totally different experience.

Can you talk about before we get too far away from it, those two things, I think that'd be really interesting.

Yeah.

So there's Hot for Food, Vegan comfort classics, and that was the one in 2018. What was it about that one that you think, what were your expectations and how were they exceeded?

I mean, I wasn't anticipating creating a cookbook. Like that wasn't necessarily like something on my goal list. Not that I have a goal list. It just wasn't what I envisioned because at the time in 2016, and maybe I said this is like, I thought maybe publishing was on its way out or somehow in that I'd have to do something more modern, like an online course or some type of interactive ebook with video. Like I was thinking really high tech kind of for that time. And I got a book deal, I got some offers and then I felt like I needed to be savvier and shop a little bit, get an agent. And so I got a fairly, what I thought, decent book deal. Now that I kind of feel like I'm an expert in publishing, at least in what I know what's going on in the food space and what kind of the deals look like and what the money looks like. So I felt like I, I did pretty good for someone who popped out of nowhere, like built their YouTube following. That was like what I was sort of riding on and because it was a reasonable advance. And then again this, the whole thing about publishing a cookbook is don't expect to sell books. Like you're putting this out, it's calling card, it's a nice piece. Apply for Marketing and something to talk about and. But I actually sold very well and that was unexpected. And the book continues to sell. It kind of in my perception feels like it's a bit of like one of the essential vegan cookbooks. Like it feels like it's part of that small collection of books that makes an impact on people's lives. And I think that was timing and what I had been doing on YouTube. So that was great. I mean I kind of reflect on that time as like my heyday. Yeah, well, now we have so much time to think about that. That was really like at the peak of the sort of pinnacle. I had achieved something. I had put out something, it was successful. I was riding on this, I was doing a lot of press, you know, and that actually allowed me the possibility to get a O1B visa, which is why I took that and moved to LA to finish my second cookbook. So I went from Toronto, Canada to Los Angeles, which was kind of an over decade long dream of mine to live in California from my television days.

Yeah.

But it was really for those who.

Aren'T familiar, just briefly, can you explain your background in television?

Yeah, I did. I did almost a decade of hosting in Canada at a number of channels, but primarily Much Music or like NMTV Canada, which Much Music was MTV for Canada and then we had mtv. But so I was an on air personality and interviewed all kinds of celebrities and musicians and stuff. So I had that kind of public version of myself which was also what attributed to me being able to qualify for a visa to move to the US but secondarily in my content creation role, publishing a cookbook was sort of that other thing that allowed me and credentials or whatever they call it alien.

How does, how do they, what did the. How do they decide that? Yeah, well, she's was on from the outside. You look at it and you're like, yeah, totally. You have these awesome things. You did a cookbook, you've been on tv. I'd be like, that's cool. But then is there just like somebody in some office being like, that's cool, like let's, let's give her a visa.

Yes, the, I forget the acronym uscis like the security, like border security type. People like immigration people are going through these applications, these very detailed legal petitions they're called. So you have to do it with a law firm who's familiar with all of this and you compile like I had like a 1000 page petition or like essentially like I've seen it printed. It's in a Binder. It's all paper printouts of all the articles I've done, interviews with celebrities, any press, any mentions, any award nominees. Like, all this stuff that makes me look. And this is what the visa is called. Alien of Extraordinary Ability. Which is very cool.

Totally.

When aliens.

Card. Business card.

So I qualify as an Alien of Extraordinary Ability when this gets approved. Because I've proved. Look at all these cool things I've done to prove why I'm essentially going to take a US person's job.

Sure. Yeah.

Like what you're trying to say. Why, like prove or whatever. So I did all that in 2019 and got the visa and then moved here about six months before the pandemic finished. Cookbook two submitted the manuscript and then a week later the Pandemic started. So that was an interesting time too, because it actually, this is not how I ended up at the end of the Pandemic, but at the beginning of the Pandemic, I felt a little spoiled and bad because I was like, well, I'm living in la, it's sunny sanctuary in my backyard, I can hang out, my manuscript's done, I don't have anything to worry about. It was actually very good timing for me personally, although globally. And then as that time stretched on and on, I think that's really where this whole journey really changed and pivoted because this was not something I anticipated doing. But I decided to have a child after the Pandemic. I have a 17 month old now and obviously that changes the way I approach my business and just changes my capacity. But even the pandemic previous to that changed my capacity. Like, you know, sure, you talk to a lot of people in the last couple years of doing your podcast, but like, this idea of grinding and working so, so, so, so hard for what, it's just changed our perspectives and I don't know if we have any answers. I don't have any answers, but I just. My capacity is so much less.

Yeah, yeah. Lindsay and I talk. Lindsay and I talk a lot about that. And we compare these days where we would get up and essentially you just work until 6, 7 and like order something for dinner. Or maybe you've made something that night and you have it and then you like watch a couple episodes of your favorite TV show and then you get up and do it again and you get up and you work from 8 to 6, 7 and. Which is great. Like, and that's a season. But it's interesting at least for us. When we moved out of it, didn't realize, like, oh my gosh. We just essentially have all of this time that we could dedicate to this thing and then kids especially changes that and like suddenly it looks very different. I'd be interested to hear for you. The Two Buckets. So you mentioned COVID Pandemic and how that changed almost some of your like philosophical contemplations around work. And then we can talk about that. So maybe lead with that and then talk about how that's changed with having a 17 month old and 9 month old and 3 month old, like all the different versions of it up until where you are now. But how about the Pandemic? What would. What changed for you during that season as a creator and an entrepreneur?

Well, yeah, there was certainly a re. Like the first immediate thing I remember feeling was relief. Like when it feels like everything stops. Like the whole system sort of halts. The relief you feel, that's significant because prior to that you're not even aware.

Yeah.

There's this whole outside force basically making you do what you do in a way. Does that make sense?

So like, if I could mirror it back to you. Tell me if this is accurate. Like you're in it and you have these. This. Maybe this loop of like these deliverables and this content that you need to produce. And some of it's externally imposed, like maybe book deadlines. A lot of it's probably internally imposed. Like you want to create something every Tuesday and publish it on your channel. And so you have these deadlines. You're grinding, you're grinding. And then some big thing happens. In this case, it's the pandemic. Maybe those expectations are released and what you felt in that moment was relief. And that caused you to be introspective to say, like, if I feel better when I don't have these things, what does that mean? Is that accurate?

Yes. 100.

Yeah.

I often don't know if I'm being articulate enough or. And I don't feel like I have any profound takeaways. I feel like I'm still processing a lot of it. These conversations are helpful because it allows me to kind of reflect and remember. That's the major thing. So that I just sat with for a long time. It was still a good time to. It felt like a. A more free time to create because now we have people online more. I remember sourdough saga. Like I making sourdough. Like this was a significant moment during this time.

Yeah.

We also had a lot of creators in all kinds of spaces, but obviously observing the food space because people were cooking at home and. And want had pantry staples. And so there you start. You started seeing the rise of certain TikTok people and the prolificness of which they fell into the space and like blew up. And so that just again, systematically changes the game for me because suddenly there's.

A new type of medium, like also. And it's hard to pull all of these things out and understand it. But you have Covid, which is like this existential, maybe philosophical time where you look at like, why are we working? How are we working? You look deeper at things. But also everybody's behavioral patterns changed. And one of the ways they changed was they started to consume a lot more content because they were just at home, more on their devices, mobile, and at the same time this platform, TikTok, is taking off. And so my guess is for you as a video creator who had traction with a certain type of content, suddenly there's this presentation of a new type of content that's very different at the same time where you're kind of questioning it all.

Yeah, that's not a good equation.

Yeah. Right.

I think somebody who has fought, I think somebody who didn't have as much history as me might be more enthusiastic to get on TikTok, play around, whatever. But I was coming from this long format place of YouTube again, preparing for a book launch. There's lots of reasons why I should have been enthusiastic and jumped on TikTok. But I did. Again, I'm older. It wasn't like I just, just was hard for me. I only started on TikTok this year.

Sure.

So.

And how has that been?

I mean, I was very resistant to it, but I've caught myself. And this is no fault of my own of why I'm addicted to it. I'm addicted to consuming TikTok and not anything in my field. I don't even look at food.

Sure. It's just getting what I'm getting.

Yeah. But it all seems to like, know my brain. And it's like incredible how intuitive and amazing this algorithm is that knows what you want to hear. It's a lot of philosophy, more philosophical, self help guru stuff. I mean, I love that stuff.

Yeah. But it's. And also like what you're saying is like where your head's at. It's like, wow, that's interesting. Yeah. This is, this is, this is. We don't have to go down this rabbit trail. But I was listening to a podcast on AI and they were talking about how eventually there will be a point where AI is creating content and you can imagine the algorithm of like, content optimization combined with the ability to actually create that content. And when those two things are paired together, like, not only is it optimizing which content to show you, but it's also optimizing the content itself. And you can imagine just like how.

Addictive that becomes, that a human can't compete with that.

Yes, totally.

Where does that leave me and all these other people who have built business on creating content, optimizing content. Like, we are not machines. That is clear. And we. I think I was operating at a machine like pace, sure. Up to the pandemic point. And now it's. And it's just, it is funny to talk about it like this and analyze it like this because we're really, truly being asked to compete with these machines, with machine learning, whatever they call it. Machines.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's interesting. I think that the other thing that's interesting to talk about is platforms evolve so quickly and things that work well don't work well eventually. And then there's a new thing. And I think of. I've referenced this a few times on the podcast, but I have a friend, tj. It's like friend of a friend. He probably wouldn't call me a friend, but he's my good friend's friend. But he does like birth order humor and he has like cumulatively like 2 or 3 million followers maybe. But if he was doing those same bits but 10 years ago as like images on Instagram, it just wouldn't have worked. And so not only has it have has it aligned in terms of his skills, his abilities, like he has all of these different skills and abilities and does a podcast too. Like, it's just a dynamic person, but also it has aligned well from a medium standpoint. Like short form content performs really well. And what's interesting, if you look back 10 years, I can also think of friends or acquaintances or people. Acquaintances, but people we knew who did really well because they were photo focused and they would be really good at compiling beautiful photos and sharing those on Instagram. Compelling writers. And that worked really well. And Pinch of Yum had this long standing, kind of like stagnant season on Instagram with growth. And it wasn't until we started to really think about reels that started to grow again. And so it's interesting as a creator to think about like, and it sounds like you were doing some of this reflection. How much do I want to evolve into the platform and try and figure out how to make it work versus, say this actually isn't a good fit for me and I'm okay with that. I don't want to get on and do 30 second short form content, 60 second short form content. I just want to stick to what I feel like is my best medium. Do you feel like there is any contemplation for you around? Like it's more specific than video. It's like even what format of video you're doing?

Yeah, yeah. The options just became so much more demanding and larger. I mean this will lead into us talking about the membership that I started a little bit. But you bring up a good point in that at some point I. I rode what felt like a long wave of being able to post where I wanted to post and for people to be attracted to it and not really playing any games, not playing into the tech, not playing into the algorithm or the SEO. I really did not. I never have. And now it feels like if you don't do that, you're screwed.

Yeah. Like you have to be aware of it and you have to be a good creator.

Yeah. And so I think like your friend, you know, I have all these, I'm a dynamic person. I have all these skills. I taught myself all these things to get into this like space and it started to feel like. Does any of this mean anything? Like, I don't know. This is where I'm at now. Kind of making what I want doesn't work, you know. And even with. Yeah. Oh, I was gonna say about the photos, like, I mean I used to just take pretty decent good photos and like that's all you need. It just was so it just simpler times. It was. And now to make like very, very high quality video. Like I also was doing that at the time on YouTube, but now I'm not even sure what. I don't know. I just feel like I have a bit of for sure imposter syndrome, but also everything at my fingertips. I couldn't do exactly what everyone else is doing, but I never want to do what everyone else is doing.

Yeah. It's interesting and I think it's. My guess is it'll be refreshing for people to hear that because I think, number one, you don't often get a lot of people talking about their journey in real time and being like I was here. You talk about kind of this peak. Your cookbook just comes out. You have a ton of traction with that. YouTube channel's growing and then it's like inevitably things change and shift and adjust and then it's like, oh, this looks different and now it's kind of frustrating and it's stickier than it was because everything has changed and shifted. And then you need to look at it again and figure out like, okay, what do I do? Do I grind? Do I put my head down? Do I reanalyze and go in a different direction? And I think more people than not are in some version of that. They're thinking, like, what? Maybe it's feeling imposter syndrome. It's feeling like, man, the caliber has to be so high and I just can't keep up. So how are you processing through that? How do you. What does it look like for you to make decisions about it? To. How do you stay true to who you are as a content creator and continue to show up?

Well, that's the thing. I think ultimately if you were to ask me in order, like, what's the most important? And for me it is to stay true to me. Like, I don't know if I can turn on a part of my brain or turn off another part of my brain to like become super calculated, which maybe means I get weeded out. I'm not sure. Except on the other hand, you have everybody talking about, be real, be authentic, da da da, da da. Just sometimes it doesn't really seem like that's what's happening.

Yeah.

And I never want to play a viral game. I never, I'm not trying to go viral. I've never gone viral. So I'm like, okay, I built like a pretty sustainable big thing without having to go viral. That's not the only path to success or sustainability in the space. But every. I don't know, it's like a daily reassessment because I want to figure it out. Basically, I'm at the point where I'm like, I need to figure out. Out how to do this for another 10 years. Like, I'm almost 10 year anniversary, February 2024. I don't want to kill it off and go away and be like, can't run a blog and a YouTube channel anymore. Gotta go work at whatever. Like, I don't want to do that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That is what I'm thinking about right now. Thinking is that what I'm gonna have to do to just make a living and pay for now. Another human being that I'm caring for. As expensive as things are now, like, again, the world has just shifted in such a way. So that's where I'm at. I don't have an answer, but I do want. I have a. I have a strong urge to figure it out, like figure out. Maybe it's not figuring out the social game or figuring out the tick tock game. I think there's a lot of different things I could do and I just don't know where to focus my energy. I could. These are truly the things I've been thinking about. I could become a private chef. I live in Los Angeles. Sure. There's a demand for like vegan people to cook for, you know, small groups of. I, I see all this content on Instagram too. You see now do you see these, these private chefs showing off what they're cooking, everybody?

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of them are self taught. They're not necessarily like huge culinary graduates. But anyway, that's one thought. I could maybe start some other small business, like actually like you know, serving food. That's not what I want to do. That's like a real risk. Creating something where I sell food, not a restaurant. But like, you know, do I go, do I nose to the ground, try and find like investors? Like I need cash. There's no cash coming into this business anymore. It's a slow period, but it's been a long slow period. And I don't know if that's a combination of things. My effort, having had a child, taken a step back a little bit. I think it's also super oversaturated and everything. The budgets are being super spread thin across more micro creators because bulk of my income came from brand partnerships. Did I make a mistake investing too much of my income in brand partnerships and not diversifying? Like there's so much going on in my head. I'm trying to not beat myself up also financially. We're supposedly like getting into this really bad recession. And like I say supposedly because I, I can't tell if that's true or not.

Sure, I don't think anybody can. It's kind of like what's happening out there, you know.

And I've been in these places before. Like when I was in television, I had times when I got let go and you know, I, I didn't know what I was. I'm in that place again. I feel like I'm on these 10 cycles, we're up up to about 10 years. Things start to feel like they need to shift. Some other door needs to open in some way that takes me to. And so I don't know what it is, but I, I'm trying to just focus on like what is it that I love to do. I do love to cook. I'm happiest when I'M cooking. I like to actually provide food to people. I like people eating my food, and I haven't really had that opportunity yet. The social media game is really burning me out, though. Like, I mean, it just. That's probably where the most stickiness comes for me because I enjoy it to a point. But then it just starts to feel like you're feeding into this, like, starving monster. You just can't give it enough. And like, for what? Like, what? The only way you can make money is if you advertise on social media. There's no other way to monetize that.

Yeah, we, we just were having that conversation yesterday, Lindsay and I, and a lot of the focus that we have is around creating video content for Instagram. And what we were saying is, like, we just need to make sure that we have a purpose attached to that in order to justify. Because it's expensive, whether it's time, resources or money. Resources. And the most obvious way to do that, like you said, is working with brands doing partnerships. Like, and it's interesting in this year, at least for us, and anecdotally have some friends who have said this as well, like, just a slow year, like, with that specifically where brands are a little bit feel like, slower to work with. And that's. We're. We're starting to see that pick up a little bit. But even I have a friend who does video and he's like, this is like the worst year I've had in 12 years. And I think as business owners, one of the things that we all have different places where that hits, like, it doesn't always just go up into the right. And I think especially if you start something and you experience growth and you experience traction, it feels really great until you have one of those seasons where things contract as opposed to expanding. And then it's like, kind of scary. It feels different. Like, oh, whether it's traffic or revenue or followers, like, and what I love about how you are viewing it is to say to. And I've been talking about it as like designing your own video game. Like, to say, what. What do I want my game to be? Like, what is the. What is the. Like points that I get? And for you, it's like somebody in. It's food, it's making food, somebody else enjoying that food. Like, there's the revenue component of it. But my guess is that's like an additional benefit that comes along with it, not the main thing. And so you start to quantify those different elements and kind of design your game and then you look and say, like, okay, within this game, what kind of avatar can play that game and insert yourself into that? That's kind of hard, creative work to do. But it's also, I think, helpful because it allows you to shield yourself from seeing what everybody else is doing and being like, oh, I need to do that. Where really what you need to do is like. And I'm talking to myself here. Design my own game and play my own game. Which is hard when you're getting a lot of input from other people.

I really like how you did that analogy and said it that way. I'm gonna completely just take that and look at it that way. That's what I've been doing. I couldn't describe it in a better way. And it's been also, you know, if we were talking about focusing on, I think, what's important, again, like, for business, like, I would use the word, like, spiritual, because we're not just talking about numbers and charts and strategy. I don't know anything about business. So I just apply, you know, these more spiritual or philosophical ideas to what I'm doing. And, like, what you're saying, if I take the things that are just important to me and identify those and build the framework around that, it should work. Or that's how it's always worked for me in the past anyways, without knowing. And so another thing, like, you're saying, who can play this game now? I'm a different person. I have a child. I have less mental energy. I have less time to devote to social. So that can't be all I do because it's literally impossible. So I think I'm building that out right now.

Yeah. In the middle of it.

And I think I'm going to keep thinking about it that way because. And like you were saying, revenue obviously has to come, but, like, that was never, like, on the framework of my game. Like, it's just something that has to be the result of all of this stuff. It's not like I'm like, I'm doing this to make money. But in the last few years, it started to become that way because I had to sustain a certain level of expenses with this business. You know, all the web cost money. I had people helping me with production. And so there was a lot of change in my thinking of, like, not, like, I'll just do this for money, but, like, I had to start thinking about money. One of the things. And I don't actually like doing that.

Yeah, yeah. It's. This is a kind of on the extreme end but there's a YouTube guy who just talks about money. I think his name's Graham Stevens or something like that. He has this show called Iced Coffee Hour or something. He was interviewing a comedian, and he was, like, asking him about how much he makes in a year or something, and he was like, I don't know. And he was like, what? The interviewer, he's like, you don't know? He's like, I have no clue. He's like, I have a money guy. And I want to be so far removed from that, because as soon as I get into it, I know I will be so stressed that it will take over everything in my life. And I'm not saying, like, that's a good example, and you should do that. And it's. It's probably pretty rare that somebody could do that without having, like, a budget and stuff. But I just thought as a extreme creator, it was a really interesting take where he was. He. He essentially asked his money guy, well, like, how long would it be before I am in trouble if I didn't work? And he's like, you have lots of time. And that's all that he needed to then go and just, like, freely create. But I think it's such an interesting thing that we have to navigate as solopreneurs or people with a small team is in those early stages, at least, you kind of have to be all of the different pieces, but none of us are all of the different pieces. Like, we aren't. We are each kind of collectively best in a certain department. Creative, finance, hr, like, whatever the business departments are, we're all good in a certain department. But in the early stages, you kind of have to be all of those things, which is a really difficult thing. It's why what we do is. Is hard, is because you have to be good at lots of those different things.

That's, like, the biggest challenge. Yeah, I'm still all of the things. Like, yes, I have an accountant. I don't have a money guy. Where. I don't know what's going on, though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know anybody who did, which is why it was kind of interesting.

So I'm wondering, does that. Is that a pretty famous comedian who makes good money?

Yes, that. That's part of it is. Like, you can. That's what I mean by, like, most people can't do that, because you can.

Do that when you hit a certain level. And that's really great if you can do that, because I think energetically, that's actually helpful when you can not ignore it because you're afraid of it, but just trust someone else to handle it. And that only comes with a certain level of. Yeah, you know, money coming in and out. Yeah.

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The other piece that you had kind of mentioned this a little bit, but your membership, can you talk about that and how you approached that? And I'm just be curious to hear you talk a little bit about what that's look like.

Well, so I decided to work on this membership and launch it in the early months of 2021. I was going to launch it in the summer and in that time I got pregnant. Or did I get pregnant right? Oh, I got pregnant right after I launched it. So my plan was to again, what do I love doing? I actually like sharing the recipes. I like creating the recipes. I like to photograph photographing the recipes. But I. And again, I didn't like all the video. The video took so much time and resource for editing and everything.

Editing specifically when you said the video. Yep.

So I was just like, how can I just do what I like? And I was, I was thinking about subscription because I wanted to monetize off of YouTube because I hadn't really come back to doing YouTube regularly. And the money, unless you get a brand partnership is just so low. I mean, unless you're in the millions and millions Mr. Beast level, you're not making a living wage or even close to that from AD Rev. So that's. So I was just like, how can I own what I'm doing? Not have it on Patreon, not have it on YouTube or Instagram. I really wanted to get back to like what's going to be mine if all of that goes away tomorrow. And, and I think in the fallout of like 2020 and Covid and everyone talking about fair wage and being compensated for your work and there was a lot of discourse around that. I was like, yeah, I should be compensated for my work. Like, I'm not going to stop giving away free content. But what kind of business model is it to be a creator who just gives away everything for free practically? That seemed crazy to me. There was also, you know, people had started doing Patreon and so it's not like I was, I was just hopping, hopping on a little bit of a wave that I thought was there and might. People might respond to it. And of course I knew it would still just speak to like the core. But I was, you know, referring back to that like 1000 fans idea and the idea that should just focus on the core. Like, those are the people who bought my book, those are the people who bought the second book, those are the people who bought the merch. Like, what else can I get them to buy, Truly? And they feel like they have a relationship with me. So if they're getting something valuable in return, it's an equal exchange. So that was my whole thinking around that. And I launched it in July 2021 and you know, I didn't really know what would happen. And I, yeah, it cost me a lot to set up because I built it myself and built it on my website so that I could own it on my own domain. So it wasn't just like a no cost investment of signing up to whatever. And so there was a bit of an investment. I've made it back now, but it's going okay. Like I don't really have. I don't know what it should be and I don't know if the amount of time I put into it is, is actually being fairly kind of compensated in the end. Then I got pregnant, so I felt like I could have put a lot into the marketing of it. Like I started doing it, but then I was like, oh God, I'm sick. I was sick for the first trimester and I.

You don't want to like make a, like a potato soup recipe.

Yeah. But anyways, I've done it. I've released something like eight issues. I Do like quarterly issues or bundles of content.

Yep. That's what I was going to ask is like, what is the thing within the membership that you're delivering?

So I've done it consistently. I've never missed an issue. One of my ways of like helping myself out when I was pregnant in the third trimester was I had a guest issue. So I had my fellow vegan bloggers contribute for the issue. So I didn't have to really do any work except set it up on the site. So that was just like, you know, it's been fun to get a little creative with it. I do kind of get excited around releasing the next issue. I. I've started getting. The whole point of it was to really ask what the people paying for it wanted.

Sure.

And so there's been some exchange that way where they've contributed ideas or I asked them what recipes they want and they develop them. So I think it's, it's, you know, it's a, it's a small community, but it's. I think it's just a nice add on to what I'm doing. People come and go. I think I've had people on it for the two years and the majority of them have stayed and some people have, for financial reasons, have to cancel, whatever. But I don't know, for me it's just like it, it's something that's on a schedule. It forces me to create again, it's compensated, it's not just putting it all out on YouTube. But now I've had to balance also I still have to put out the free content now. Come back this year. I've sort of come back. So the. My baby went to daycare at 10 months and I was like, okay, now I'm gonna like get back to YouTube and like really try to like, yeah, just plug back in in that way. And yeah, of course I don't have enough hours in the day and enough arms to do all this. And truly now I'm. I'm by myself. I don't have any other than an editor. I don't, I don't have any like production team members or like anyone doing anything. I'm doing all the writing, all the posting, all the whatever. So.

Yeah, and with the membership site that. Then it's quarterly issues. Those are digital. Yes, issues videos. And it's kind of like also maybe a live component. People can hang out, connect.

There's a live component? Yeah, I do like a lot.

It's kind of like an inner circle almost.

Yeah, it's Behind a paywall. So if you go to my blog, you can link over there or it's members.hotforfoodblog.com and then you just sign up and you get access to everything in, in the past, that's all up. It's like a separate. It's like a, a sub domain of my website.

Sure. And then how did you set it up? Like what is it? Is it run on a certain software.

Or as it's run on member press? Member press. I don't know the options, but I pay like $400 a year for it. And then I had to hire somebody to build out. Build it out and customize it in WordPress.

That's great. So it's like a WordPress membership site and it looks really great. Like I'm on it right now.

Yeah. Oh, thank you. All that functionality. Oh, I should have given you a login in advance so you could see. See what's inside. But it essentially looks like my blog. Other than the main pages, you're looking at everything behind the paywall looks format wise. Exactly like hotforfood blogs.com and of course people wanted more video. When I did a feedback form, maybe two or three issues in, everyone was like, I thought there was going to be more video because that's what I'm known for. And I didn't do that because of just work. It is. But now I've started incorporate now I basically held back some of my video content from going on YouTube and I keep it just for the members, like vlog. And people do like that personal, that personal aspect of my brand, I guess, like, yes, I'm a food creator, but people have come to know me personally and all these different stages of my life, like my personal life has essentially been out there for people to follow along. So now they're part of my motherhood journey as well. And I kind of tried to keep it more, tighten it for the members before I sort of put some of it out there to the rest of the people, which was just, I mean it was kind of a strategy. But I also felt like if these people like they, I can, I know who they are, a lot of them. I know they've been following me for a long time. I know their handles. You know, this is the core. So I'm always kind of trying to onboard people, obviously, but I don't know how big that can really get. I'm not sure.

Yeah, well. And I think the great thing about it, circling back to a conversation we had earlier or something that we talked about, like this idea of content, artificially generated content. One of the things that's the most defensible against that is just like our humanness and our humanity. And that is what you're doing is such a great example of that. It's like figuring out how do you lean more into that. And especially for people like yourself, who you're dynamic, people want to connect with you. It's like you're not going to build some like, system to pump out a bunch of content that ranks well for search. You're going to connect with people. You're going to be honest. You're going to be, you know, authentic, genuine people are. And my guess is even on a podcast like this, people are like, oh, I feel connected to this person because of how you communicate and your transparency. And that's finding ways to lean into that feels like a really smart thing to do. And it feels like doing something like this, where you have this inner circle that allows you to connect with people in a way that's realistic. You can't do it with everybody, but kind of like your YouTube channel, your social is like a broad reach and then you go in a circle and it's a little bit more. It's not like one to many in terms of your communication. It's not broadcast communication. It's like one to few where it's a little bit more connected. And I think that's like a smart approach.

Well, and I've been thinking about that. When I look at the creators who have built like really large businesses off of essentially social media content creation and their personality out there, it has to be personal because it's like you're not, you know, I mean, you can go by any generic thing, but like, there's only me and.

Right.

So that's something that I just do enjoy and will continue to do. But I've been thinking about this because TikTok, as personal as it is, when we think about food creation on TikTok, like the stuff that goes viral isn't necessarily personality driven all the time. So I don't know, it's interesting because I can't figure out. I can't, I can't figure out what TikTok wants. It wants personality. But like, when you look at food content, sometimes it's just these viral recipe ideas or just something really quick and gives people idea and they're not necessarily going to follow you. They're just like, wow, look at this idea. And they share it all around and they save it. But like, what's the body in there. Like, I just, I'm not sure.

Well, and it's, you know, every platform is kind of like a different party and.

Yeah.

Expectations of the different. Yeah. And with Tick Tock, it almost seems like, you know, it's. It's like a mat. Like one of those parties where you wear masks and it's like you don't really know who anybody is. That's not entirely true, but it's maybe not as personality centric, where it's more like content and theme centric. So, like, people will maybe follow a really specific channel that does a really specific thing and they may or may not know who that, like the name of that creator. It's like, oh, you're the person who does this thing. But like, it's not like they would know you. Like, they would if you have a long form vlog channel on YouTube where you really get to know the person and the ins and outs of who they are. And so, yeah, it definitely feels like a different channel or a different platform where the, the intent of the content, it's more. It's like a. It's a content algorithm as opposed to a social algorithm. Like, I think that it's core. It's like, yes, it's surfacing content that's viral or that's the type of content that's going to get the most exposure. Not your network, not your social network.

Well, and then coming back on YouTube, it's interesting because I obviously built. I built a community on YouTube and I guess unless you feed that, if you go away, it kind of. It really does damage you. Like, they're like, I didn't even know you were. He's still here. And like, it's. There's a lot of, like, work I need to do to like, get people's attention again. And I only create. I'm creating for that small core. What. That's what I realized the other day. I'm like, I'm making content for that small core. Who is stuck around. How the heck do I get more viewers on YouTube without being gimmicky?

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

And I think it's my vlogs. They have to, like, know who I am, know that I had a baby, or be curious about where I might be living, you know what I'm saying? Like, but these vlogs, I just realized that I'm doing what's easiest because this is what I've always done. But, like, strategically, I don't think it's, yeah. Working. And so I'm not sure what that means where what I.

Well, I think. Yeah. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. I also think it's interesting. They would be a surprise for a lot of people thinking like, oh my gosh, you have 450,000 subscribers and yet kind of trying to figure out how to connect with people who are those people? It's just, it's just like an interesting look behind the scenes that I think a lot of people feel where maybe you have millions of Instagram followers but you try and sell a product and you don't get any traction, or, you know, lots of YouTube followers and then you produce content. Nobody sees it. Like, we have these externally facing numbers, but then there's a lot that goes into kind of everything that happens behind the scenes on those platforms.

Yeah. And those things really don't matter because, like, what I do know to be true is like, I was. Oh, another offshoot of what I was doing over the last few years was these trips. I was selling vegan holidays that were something so important to me. And I was doing this with my best friend who runs the vegan travel company. And like, again, it's a very personal thing. It's not a big commercial thing where I'm selling it for some big travel company. So I think it's a very personable thing. It's very customized and I was able to, you know, I'm still able to sell that type of thing even in this really tough, you know, climate. We're in exceed. You know, there's a small contingent of people who can travel and can afford it and there's a huge other contingent of people who can't. But within that core audience that's following along with me, there are people who were very excited to a go on vacation with me, have it be vegan, introduce their friends and family. Like we've had, you know, family members come with these people. So I just. It's really special to me. I mean, I don't want to complain because what I've built is special and there's something special and I just wanna. I just don't wanna lose it. I don't wanna forget about these people. I wanna, I do wanna cater to them and I don't want this to become about money and business. It's just like, how do you do both? How do you sustain something that you've built? Have it be real and authentic and personal and as connected as you possibly can and also monetize it. Jerk. And.

Well, and I think the other piece in this, I'd be interested to spend some time talking about this. How do you do all of those things while also being fully present to your family? And I would be curious to hear your reflections. As you know, you've been a mom for 17 months now. Like what have you learned about yourself? And what would you say to other new moms or new parents who are either right in the middle of that, maybe there's somebody who's listening to this and they're ambitious and excited, but they also have a little one and they're trying to figure out how to navigate those two things. Or maybe coming into a season like.

That, it is hard. It's hard. I mean, you know, I, you know, if you're self employed, if you're in a situation like me or you want to get into this situation at the beginning, like you have zero support, like you don't have any government support, you don't have any monetary support, you're alone, you don't have matlab. I know in the US you get hardly any MAT leave, but even in Canada, like there's a get a year. If I continued being self employed in Canada, I could have had all those benefits. So that's my own fault.

Yeah, yeah. Like you would have had government supported maternity leave even if you were self employed.

Yeah, yeah. Because I had been essentially paying myself. So I was paying into all the.

Program as a person.

Yeah. As a taxpayer. That's just one thing. Oh my God, I want to be so. I wish I had something really important.

Yeah.

It's just so hard. And you just. Moms and parents will know it's just survival mode and like you do it, you friggin do it. And you should be proud of yourself. All the little things that you do should be proud of yourself for. Because it's so friggin hard to add that thing into your life if you've lived a certain way for so long and now you have this little person to care for. I do love it. Like I luckily never struggled with like just the mental health aspect. Postpartum I felt very invigorated by having a child, not necessarily for career or work. Like I shut that off. That feels very shut off. And I'm just coming back into that element of my life now. But I gotta do it for him, you know, like it's a very good motivator because I want to set a good example for him and kind of change the way my upbringing was with my family and like give me a good example of just like, I don't know I'm also co parenting now. Like, I'm, I'm not with his dad, so that's a whole other challenge too. But again, more motivation for me to make things work and just trying to find balance with rest and self care. I roll my eyes.

That's like literally for those who are listening. Yeah.

Like, oh, self care. What you don't, it's just you don't, you can't. You have a baby?

Like, well, it almost, you know, I think back to. And I think it's different for dads than it is for moms. So this is me just speaking from my experience, but like it requires back to that kind of video game idea. Like, it's like you're on a new level now and like you need to reinvent. I needed to reinvent my avatar in that game because I was now playing a very different game. And it's hard because happens literally overnight. And so at least from 0 to 1 with kids, like, and so suddenly you're playing, you're on a different level, but you haven't really had the time to evolve and morph into that. And I think for everybody, there's probably varying levels of how difficult that is or isn't to do that. And it's not that before was good and after is bad or before was bad and after is good. It's just, it's very different. And that transition takes a long time. And I feel like I can relate to you when you say like 16, 17 months is where you feel like you're kind of coming back up and feeling like, okay, what does this look like now? And appreciate you saying, like, it's just hard. And I think that could be the best thing that anybody who's in that could hear right now, which is it's hard. And it's okay to say it's hard and it's okay to say that it's difficult. And it doesn't mean it'll be difficult forever, but it just, in that season, it is difficult. And I think that in and of itself can be a really welcome thing for a lot of people to hear.

Validating, I think, and in, in acknowledging that it's hard that you don't have to have a solution anytime. Yes, I'm such a solution oriented person and I want solutions. And I've had to just relegate myself to being like, there's no solutions through the day. Do what you can, you know, use that eight hours he's at daycare as best you can. But some days, in fact a lot of those days, it's. It looks like doing no work, maybe send one email. But again that's the benefit of things being kind of slow right now. There's. There's so much trust you have to put into just being a solopreneur. Like you're saying if you add children and family into this, that requires so much more trust. And that is a challenge somehow. You know, I've. I think I've prepared for this though. Like I didn't take having a child lightly and it wasn't by accident. It was definitely intentional and on purpose. But it's only because I felt like I reached a place in my life spiritually with my age, just everything. I am a little bit older so it's like I can do it now. Like it was a challenge that I wanted. Everything else seemed a little bit boring. I was like yeah, okay let's. It did it truly. And I thought what's the rest of my life gonna look like it's gonna be, be friggin boring if I don't have a child?

That maybe sounds then you're like this is not boring.

It's not boring. It is so much more purpose. And like I like when you said it's not that before was better, it's not now is better now it's better and it's harder, but it's better because it's harder.

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. There was a video, I forget which one that, that it was that I was watching. But Jason, when I saw that we scheduled the interview and was getting ready for it and I was watching it and you'd said something and I just started laughing. Point being like it's so great to be able to connect with you, who you are so dynamic. The content that you create is so fun and so engaging and I think for people in general, they would like it, but especially people who are in a similar stage of life. So as we wrap up Lauren, where can people connect with you? Follow along with what you're up to. Maybe check out the membership if they want to see what that's all about and explore that.

Yes.

And we'd love to link to all of those things.

Yeah, please link to the membership but I definitely. You can check out lots of the free content on hot fourfood blog.com and then Instagram and YouTube and tick tock if you're on there scrolling, I'm there. And then I do share like my personal life and I started like you were referring to sharing some of my mom life experiences on my personal YouTube channel, which if you just look up my name, Lauren Toyota, you'll find that on YouTube and Instagram and all the things the membership is called Eat it by Hot for Food. The traveling I do is with the getawayco.com so we will be announcing my trips for 2024 and they're vegan holidays that are all planned for you. So that's another thing. Yeah, but the motherhood thing is interesting because I want to share that and that seems like as a creator, a logical place to go. But I'm trying to do it just so gently and carefully because start to be very TMI and exploitative and I don't want to become a mom blogger. But I do think the relatability of me in general naturally follows this new part of my life. So I have to share.

Yeah, it's like who you are and that's what you do is share about who you are and what you're doing. And so I found it to be helpful and fun and entertaining. So. And I'm sure others will as well. Lauren, thanks so much for coming on. It was great to check in. We'll have to do it again sometime in the future.

In another seven years.

In another seven. We'll do it like every seven years. How about that?

Sounds good. Thanks.

Thanks, Lauren.

Hello there Emily here from the Food Blogger Pro team. We hope you enjoyed listening to this week's episode of the podcast. Before we sign off today, I wanted to mention one, one of the most valuable parts of the Food Blogger Pro membership, and that's our courses. In case you don't already know, as soon as you become a Food Blogger Pro member, you immediately get access to all of our courses. Here on Food Blogger Pro we have hours and hours of courses available, including SEO for food, blogs, food photography, Google Analytics, social media, and sponsored content. All of these courses have been recorded by the Food Blogger Pro team or some of our industry experts and they're truly a wealth of knowledge. We're always updating our courses so you can rest assured that you're getting the most up to date information as you're working to grow your blog and your business. You can get access to all of our courses by joining Food Blogger Pro. Just head to foodbloggerpro.com join to learn more about the membership and join our community. Thanks again for tuning in and listening to the podcast.

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