454: Catherine Zhang on Being a Netflix Star and the Power of Social Media

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Hey there, this is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team and you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. This week on the podcast, Bjork is interviewing Katherine Zhang. It is hard to believe everything that Katherine has accomplished in the last few years, but I'll give you just a sample. She has a Bachelor of Science in Food Nutrition Science and has spent two years working in pastry kitchens and learning more about recipe development. She was also on and happened to win Netflix's Zumbo's just dessert season two. She runs two food blogs, has over 1 million followers between her Instagram and TikTok accounts, and owns Kurepu Crepes, which is a dessert shop that now has two locations, one in Perth and one in Sydney. Needless to say, she's been super busy. In this interview, Catherine shares more about how she balances everything, how she manages and maintains her blog, which currently gets over 350,000 monthly page views, and how she uses social media trends and viral videos to drive traffic back to her blog and promote her dessert shops. She's really intentional about everything she does with her businesses and it's a really inspiring and fun interview. I know everyone will get a ton out of it, so I'm going to let Bjork take it away.

Katherine, welcome to the podcast.

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for getting up early. It's. It's like middle of the day for me. One o'. Clock. It's perfect timing. It's 5am for you, but my guess is, based on the amount of things that you're doing and the amount of ground that you've covered in a short amount of time, that maybe getting up early isn't abnormal for you. Are you. Are you naturally an early riser?

I'd say I am. But 5am is definitely a little bit too early.

Totally. But you have done so much, and you've fit a lot of different, cool, unique, inspiring things into a short amount of time. Because you're also young. You've built up hundreds of thousands of followers. We're going to talk about that. You've had success launching multiple sites, and you've been on a Netflix series, and you also have two retail brick and mortar food stores. Is there anything else you'd add to that list? Like what? Did I cover it pretty well?

No, that's pretty much it. I think so. Yeah.

Yeah. And let's roll it back so we don't have to go back too far. But, um, did you start, like, when. When did you start kind of knowing that this was the direction that you wanted to go, that you wanted to build businesses, that you wanted to create content online and kind of walk us through that process?

Uh, I think it all kind of happened in, like, a little bit of a timeline. I didn't really know exactly what I wanted from the start. Um, I think when I was studying in uni, I was very much still in the food space, but I wanted to become like a dietitian, nutritionist. But it wasn't when I went onto the TV show. So I was on Zumbo's Just Dessert Season 2 on Netflix. After that, I kind of switched my brain a little bit. I kind of entered the world of, like, tv, social media and all of that. And I realized that there was something beyond kind of just working in a kitchen or working where I kind of wanted to work. So at the time I was working in the kitchen, and then on the side, I was started building, like, my social media presence because I got that little bit of a boost from being on the TV show. And that kind of led me into the world of blogging. Because once I had that social media presence, I discovered that you could post your recipes online and share them with your followers. And then from there I naturally realized that there was something called a blog, and through that you could make money as well. I think that was kind of like the biggest thing, and I just kind of kept building it on the side. It was just like a little passion project. That I kept uploading and building and same with content creation as well. It was like while I was working in the restaurant, make a couple of videos on the side, I never really realized I could become so big until, you know, like I had built it for about maybe two years and it was to the point where the workload was so big that I couldn't handle it while doing my full time job as well. So that's when I, you know, quit full time. Full time. That's when I quit full time work and became a content creator slash blogger.

Yeah. And that was how. That was two years ago or that was.

Yeah, that was about two years ago. So I've been building the blog for, I think almost four now.

Yep. So in, in uni, you, you were in university. That was like four or five years ago, is that right?

Like, yeah, around that.

And you were studying kind of nutrition, knew that you wanted to go into the world of food and then actually did go into the world of food through working at a restaurant. Is that right or.

Yeah.

What did that look like post college?

Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, during the time I was kind of working there already as like a waitress, kind of as a side job to make a little bit of money. And then after I was on the TV show, I kind of wanted to get into the space of like working as a pastry chef, because that was my dream at the time. And so that restaurant gave me the opportunity to work there, make doing their desserts, doing special items and stuff. And so I worked there for about two years, actually doing their desserts, helping them, and then also doing a little bit of waitressing on the side as well.

Sure. Which makes sense that they would do that because you go on the show, you won, right? Is that.

Yeah.

So you go on the show, you win. Like, if I was the owner of that business, very quickly I would be thinking, how do we get you to stop, you know, waiting tables and start actually making these desserts for people? Because it's, it's like you obviously have a talent. If you're able to go on this TV show and not only get on the TV show, but win the competition. What was it like to apply for that? Like, how did you go through the process of applying and then getting onto it and talk a little bit about what it was like to be on this Netflix series.

The application process was actually quite long. I found the place through like I was at an expo for baking they were casting. So I applied through it. You had like a written interview, then you have to film a video interview. And once they kind of go through all the applicants for that, they take you to the next round. Next round, they do like another video interview where they talk to you, kind of video call you. And then from there they're like, if they think you're a good fit for the screen. Because while there's also, you know, skill and baking of what you can do, it's also about how you appear on tv, whether you're like, you have a personality, whether you will be entertaining. So then they do like a screen test. They come to your house, they get you to bake something, do a screen test, kind of see how you fit. And then, yeah, from there, it's just kind of one more interview. And I got the call that I was accepted. So it's kind of. It was kind of interesting.

Yeah, yeah. And so talk about kind of the before and after of that, because it sounds like that was a pivotal moment. And there are. There are some instances where people think that, like, getting on TV is going to be this massive thing. Like, I remember we, Lindsay and I went on, it's very different, but, like, the local morning news, and, like, that was the thing that all of our friends and family were like, you've made it. You know, it's like that proved to them that, like, somehow we were credible. Was showing up on this small morning news station, and they're like, you must have had a bunch of people coming to your site. And it's like, it doesn't materialize into anything, but there's the access that you get with a show like that. Very different. And not only the amount of people who would consume it, you know, hundreds and thousands, maybe millions compared to tens of thousands or thousands of. But also, it's always there, it's on demand. And so people. There's probably a peak when it's released, but people are always probably to some degree watching it and then getting to know you and then probably looking for you online and following along with you. So what was it like to go through that process and then did you notice a pretty significant difference in terms of your online presence after it had been released?

Yeah, for sure. Because actually beforehand I barely had any online presence. It was just like, I baked this this weekend, took a picture. I was. Back then, the Instagram still had filters and everything. Like, you know, the pictures weren't that great. But I think what like, kind of changed at all was that, like, when I first went on, it was actually only aired on national TV, so it was on Channel 7. In Australia. And I kind of did get a boost after that. I got a couple thousand and kind of got the ball rolling, and I kind of started posting a little bit more, but we got the Netflix deal a little bit afterwards. So it wasn't actually until like, a year later that it was uploaded onto Netflix. And I think from that moment, I saw a massive jump because Netflix is worldwide. And so, like, the amount of reach that I was able to get, I saw my following jump from like, a couple thousand to, like, 20k in a week. Like, it was pretty crazy at the time. So I think it was after then I was like, wow, I really have, like, this power kind of like on this platform that I could post it and people want to see it. And then I think that was, like. That was the beginning. Yeah, yeah.

It's almost like. And there's a couple different times that I can think back to when we've been building different things where you work really hard, you know, you're learning. In your case, it's like you're going to school, you're developing your skills, you're hustling, you're grinding. And like, every once in a while, we, through perseverance, hard work, get this kind of opportunity that unlocks, and it kind of opens up a door. And it doesn't happen unless you do the hard work. Like, you wouldn't have won the show unless you were really good at what you were doing. And then what happens is you get access to this kind of, like, new audience, these new people. Like, you get discovered in some ways, and. But then it's like you still have to do the hard work of, like, creating content and showing up, like, putting good work out there that people respond to and continuing to build that following. So what happened? Well, it sounds like what happened was you kind of. Your eyes were opened, like, oh, my gosh, this is really cool. I can speak to an audience. What changed? I guess to allow you to continue to do that and, like, to build it into a career?

I think it was a couple of different things. I mean, at the beginning, when I was doing Instagram and all of that, it was very much still a photo platform. So it was. That's how I kind of got into food blogging, because I was like, oh, how do I improve my food photography? And then I did a food photography course. And then I realized, oh, if you take nice photos, they want your recipe. You can put them online. And then I started building my own blog. I did a couple of courses on how to build a blog. I listened to a lot of Food Blogger Pro.

All right.

And so that kind of helped me set it all up. And then from then there was a point in time where photos just weren't cutting it on Instagram anymore and you had to change over to video. And I think that kind of made me switch from that Instagram, food blogging to a content creator and thinking of new ideas where you could hit viral videos and kind of boost my following even more. Because I knew there was a point where it plateaued. Like, of course, like it'd been a couple of years since it'd been out and then, you know, settled down and I still wanted to grow. Like I still wanted to get that following. And so I felt like creating videos that really captured the audience attention, reached a different audience as well. That was kind of what helped me boost it. And then now it's kind of formed a career.

Yeah, that's awesome. So when you look at your business kind of, you know, say like kind of a portfolio in a way where you have these multiple businesses, one, one bucket I would assume is kind of social, maybe working with brands, sponsor content. One bucket is the website and traffic that you get to that website and then you have another bucket of these retail stores that you've launched where you're selling food. What, when? Tell me about how you balance kind of load balance between those three things. Like there any one of them could be a full time job. So how do you kind of look at all of those and balance the work that needs to happen across all those buckets? And would there be any other buckets you'd add to that list?

I think balancing it is quite hard. If anything, there are times where I focus more on one and then next time I focus more on one. So say for example, the good thing about a blog is because it's everlasting and you know, if you create good quality content, it will go over the years without you doing much. So once I had my blog fully set up and it was running by itself, I had the freedom to be able to go into doing something like a business while doing like small bits of maintenance, like posting a blog post every now and then to kind of keep it going while I could focus on like really growing my business and growing my TikTok and Instagram following. So I think that's one thing.

Yeah, yeah. So you have your site that you originally launched with and that in and of itself, you know, is a successful business. You had shared kind of in the intake notes that gets anywhere from 350,000 page views, you know, it can make 70,000 in a year. That, to a lot of people, I think, is where they'd want to get to. They'd want to build something that gets to that point, and that would be success. What I hear you saying is it. It's almost like you knew you wanted to have this, you knew you wanted to build it, and you did build it. And then once you had it running and working, instead of saying, I'm just going to focus on this, you said, hey, what's another kind of cool opportunity that I can start that would help support, you know, in a different way? It's almost like a little bit of a diversification. When you looked at it, was it saying like, I want to diversify and create different sources of revenue, or was it like, hey, this is a fun opportunity. And as a bonus, you know, there's some element of diversification. I think of my wife, Lindsay, so she has pinch of yam. She's working on a fun side project called Snack Dive. For her, it's not really like, ooh, this is an intentional business decision. It's like, this is a fun thing to do and I think people would like it and resonate with it. But what was it like for you as you made decisions around launching new things or looking at different opportunities?

I think it's very similar to Lindsey in that way. It was more of a passion project. It kind of came along as like an opportunity where I could open a business with my friends and something that was kind of fun, different, we hadn't done before. And it was also the fact that we could use social media to push it as well, that we kind of wanted a different challenge. We wanted to prove something. And I think that was kind of the mentality that went into starting. It wasn't really diversification, but that is kind of what came out of it.

Yeah, it's I think of crumble cookies. I don't know if you've ever come across crumble, but they have, you know, these millions of followers and the I. My understanding is one of the major ways that they get people into the store is through social media. And there's some other businesses even like locally here that are like an ice cream shop. And they do like really over the top ice cream that's very like Instagrammable. And I think it's strategic in that you have this, you know, beautiful, fun thing that you can capture that people share. That then kind of becomes a marketing channel. And what's amazing is when you do have A following. And you do have people who can, you know, consume your content, and you can kind of direct that attention in ways that you want to direct it. There's a lot of power in that. And it sounds like you saw that with your first site, launched it, but then you also went through the process of launching another site and was able to, like, pretty quickly build up a decent following with that second site. Can you talk about what that process was like and how you went about doing that?

Yeah, of course. Well, I think social media has massive power. And with the second site, I wanted to build it for my business partner. My business partner is also a content creator. He does Chinese bot cooking dim sum lim, and I wanted to build a site for him because I knew he had the potential to build a site with his following, but he wasn't using it. So by utilizing the power of social media, you do a viral video. A viral video can get you page views that can hit 50,000. Like, 50,000. Like, it's crazy how much a viral video can do for your blog. So by doing that, creating a couple of viral videos, and then using that to boost the blog, we were able to qualify for ad thrive in, like, just over a week. So it's. Yeah. Compared to when I. I know it's so crazy because I remember when I was first building my blog, it took a long time, like, it took months, almost a year for me to build up so much traffic, doing it organically. And then my social media following wasn't as big at the time. But when you have such a big following and when you have the power to hit. So, like, viral videos, like, it's so easy to kind of build that traction. And like, you don't necessarily have to have a following either, because you can hit viral videos without having a massive following at the same time. But people follow the recipe and they'll automatically get redirected to your blog.

Yeah, it's one of the great things about. There's some downsides to it as well, but one of the great things about the way that algorithms work now is generally their content forward, like, as opposed to social forward. So it's less about who's following you and are they like, seeing your content? And it's more about, can you produce a piece of content that algorithmically performs well, and if it does, there's a really good chance that they'll surface that piece of content to people, even if they don't follow you. TikTok being the obvious example of a platform that did this first, but then you're starting to see that kind of across all platforms where it's not just the people you follow that you see, but the content that's performing well and is stickiest. So can you talk about what, like, the variables are when you're producing a piece of content? And it's hard to say, like, here's how to produce a viral video. Like, you could speak to that if you have thoughts around it. But I'd be curious to know also, how do you direct people to your website strategically from a video? Because I think that's one of the hard things as well, is like getting people to click over from a platform like Instagram or TikTok to get to your site, even if you do have a viral video. So any thoughts on that?

I think there's a couple of factors that go into it. The first thing is when you create a video that you want people to go to your website, they need to go to your profile to click on your website. And so having that kind of having a little bit more of a personality and kind of having like something that, oh, I kind of want to follow her, or, oh, I want to look at her profile and they click over, they'll see your website and they'll click to your website. That's one thing. So while like, there's a lot of creators that will do just videos of food and, you know, just like pretty shots and all of that, while that's good, at the same time, you also want to build a brand, you want to build an image, and you kind of want to build a personality that people want to go to. And from there, they're more likely to be like, oh, I know that Catherine has good recipes. Oh, I know that this person has good recipes. And they. I can rely on them. And then they'll automatically go to your website. So that's one thing. In terms of creating content that will go viral, it is very hit or miss. And it depends on a couple of things, like the trends at the time. Like, if you follow a trend, you could potentially hit millions of views and then you can use that to boost it. So say, for example, recently I did, like, there's a cookie going around. So it's basically a croissant cookie. It's like a viral TikTok trend. And it started a couple of weeks ago and I hopped on it as soon as I could. So I created a video, I did a blog post. There's not many blog posts on it. So, like, you have that high chance of being up there because firstly, it's, it's a new product, kind of like not many people know about it, I hope on it, I've done it. I posted on Instagram. It's almost at a million views. And then from there it's a giant boost to my, my blog because number one, it's something that isn't as seen out there yet. There's not many recipes for it yet, so people automatically want to go check it out, have a look, and it's just a trend. Everybody kind of wants to hop on it, everyone wants to make it, and so they're searching for it right now. How can I make it? And you're kind of just. There was like this blog post that's ready for them to look at.

And I see one of the things that you do, My guess is this is strategic. You know, in your profile a lot of people will have a link to, let's say LinkedIn profile. But one of the things that's happening when you're doing that is you're taking away a page view from your site and eventually you can, you know, show more things and give people more options. But tell me more about that. The strategy behind in your case, linking to a page that's like slash links on your website that has a link to TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, Pinterest and then has, it's almost like a category page. My guess is these are all the different recipes that you're posting then on social. So then people would go and find like I see right now, the cookie croissant, which looks incredible. So great. Like, that is, my guess is strategic in wanting to get people to your site.

Correct? Yes. So I used to use like Link Tree or something like one of those linking platforms. And it was working fine, like nothing was wrong with it. But there was one day I was like, wait a second, they're already clicking on it to go to a website. I don't know, direct them to my website. Like I thought it was at the time. I was like, oh, I can't believe I didn't think of that earlier. And so I just created a page where it was like everything that I needed from like Link Tree or whatever it was would be on there. So all my socials where they could go to follow me and I could customize that page to how I want it to be. So I've customized it in a way where I've got my socials at the top and then underneath I've got all my recent recipes. So each time I post a blog post, the most Recent recipe will be the first one there's. And then once you post it, it's very easy. You just say link in my bio for my recipes. They click on it and that's the first thing they see. They can click on the recipe.

Yeah. So you know, right away people are going to be interested in it and they want to know where to find it. And you just say, hey, go over here. And if you have, like you said, a video go viral and maybe a million people view it, potentially 5% of those people, 10% of those people might want to go and look at it. And if you went to LinkedIn profile instead of your actual blog, what would happen is you'd be losing out on, you know, potentially 25,000, 35,000 page views because people will drop off naturally. Super smart and really strategic. The other thing that I think is so great is being aware of trends and, you know, instead of creating a chocolate chip cookie recipe, you are saying, hey, there's this recipe that's going viral. Like multiple people are creating content around it and then thinking, okay, if this is kind of a new concept, cookie croissant being a great example, there's going to be an opportunity here for you as a creator to create a piece of content that people are also probably going to be Googling, like they're going to want to figure out the recipe for it. And in our world, there's 10,000 different people who are creating a recipe for spaghetti and they're all competing for it and they all want to get it because it's high search term. But there's also these new and creative recipes or concepts that are coming out and being aware of those and being strategic as a blogger as well as a social media creator to pay attention to that. So is that you just being in tune with the world of food on these platforms and seeing what's trending and what's not, or I guess it's not what's not trending, it's just like, what is trending.

Yeah, I think being on top of the trends and what's going on on social media is so important because it's not only like food trends, but even just like memes or like jokes or whatever it is that all things that you can incorporate into your videos and kind of you become relatable, you're able to boost your video and you become that kind of. It helps you become viral. So like, yeah, I spend a ridiculous amount of time on social media and. And while it is most of the time for enjoyment at the Same time, it's like it is necessary. I will spend hours just scrolling for food ideas, like in the depths of TikTok, just on food and like seeing every single thing that goes past because you know, you start to pick up on things quickly and then if you're always in that space, you'll be the first one to notice when a trend starts to arise. So the cookie croissant I'll use as an example again. I realized a couple of weeks ago I saw it in Paris like it was the front videos were mostly in French. They hadn't hit that American audience yet. If I had hit it back then it would have done well. But then I had to fly to Perth because I had to manage my shop there. And then I came back, it was already, it was already going off and then I was like, I have to get on as quick as possible. So like you can kind of notice these things. They'll pop up, you'll see it and you'll be like, oh, I feel, I feel like that's going to go viral. You'll see like two more videos on end. That's when you know it's just like it's coming, it's coming. You might as well just hop on it.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's almost like you develop a sixth sense and that can only be developed through consuming as well as creating and it's refined as you create more and then see how things do and you start to get that feedback loop of like, hey, this worked, this didn't work. And part of it is like you maybe could even like not specifically quantify this is exactly why it did well. But you just kind of had a feeling like, hey, you kind of saw some of that happening. Those videos did well. And you start to get this feeling of like, this could do well and I think it might perform. Before we continue, let's take a moment to hear from our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Raptive. You may be like the many other Food Blogger Pro members and podcast listeners who are working towards increasing their traffic to be able to apply to an ad network. Raptive, which is formally Ad Thrive, for instance, requires a minimum of 100,000 page views and brand safe content to join the community. These qualifiers attract premium advertisers and ensure creators like you benefit from Raptive's expansive solutions and services. But if you're not quite there yet and you want to be, Raptive can still help. Raptive put together a comprehensive email series. It's 11 emails in total that will help you optimize your content, understand your audience, grow your email list, and grow your traffic to help you reach your ad network goals. Pinch of Yum works with Raptive to bring in passive income each month. The ads show up on each Pinch of Yum post, and when that ad loads on someone's screen or somebody interacts with that ad, Pinch of Yum earns money. So more page views equals more money and it can really add up over time. That's why so many Food Blogger Pro community members are interested in getting their page view numbers up so that they'll be able to apply to an ad network and make money on display ads. So if you're in the same boat and are interested in getting some traffic tips delivered to you for free, head to foodbloggerpro.com Raptive the 11 weekly emails you'll receive are designed for creators who have a working knowledge of SEO, keyword research and email list, but haven't yet been able to crack that 100,000 page view mark. Go to foodbloggerpro.com Raptive to opt into this free newsletter series. Thanks again to Raptive for sponsoring this episode. Are there any elements beyond like kind of the trending piece that you could pinpoint around video content that does well? Like, what are the other components, if you could surface some of those that help video content to do well?

I think it's also very dependent on the person and building your own kind of brand or niche. So for myself, I've kind of built myself as a Asian baking kind of content creator. So the videos actually do well when I base it around something around myself. So for example, my top performing content is usually like mochi. So like mochi always as well because it's different, not as many people are doing it. Because when you enter the realm and you do chocolate chip cookies, like how many people have put out a chocolate chip cookie recipe? You know what I mean? Like, it's so hard to get noticed, but when you have your own kind of like flair to it, that's what makes you stand out. And that's what I've noticed other viral content creators would be doing. So say for example, like my recent post that I've done up you do I did like a Nutella Mochi or I did like a Matcha Tiramisu, like something that's different. And even then much of Tiramisu I can still rank on like on SEO, you know, like it's not something that is like out of it. So I'll look for those pockets that this pocket that's like all this potential to write a blog post and it'll also do well on social media and it has, it like captures that niche audience and from there that's what always does well for me. So I find that if I do like a brownie recipe or a cookie recipe, it never does well for me. So I think it's finding what it is for you that kind of will make you stand out.

Do you ever post things to social that you wouldn't post to your blog or vice versa? Like you're posting your blog and you wouldn't post to social and how do you make the decision of what goes where?

I definitely do, but I feel like most of the time I do end up writing a blog post because regardless of whether it does rank well or not, I will be able to still get some traffic through my social media. And if it's like a viral. So I'll give an example. Recently I did like a giant Boba recipe. It's like a ridiculously big size Boba, like no one's gonna make it at home. It's mostly for social media. But in that case I'd still write a BL post because it's like, oh, if you, if that hits, then people are still gonna want to have a look at it. Like there's definite potential. So I think it's a little bit of that. I try to balance it out. So I'll do like, you know, a couple of ones that kind of hit both social media and blog and then the other ones you really want to hit something on social media, then I'll just do it for social media. Or if I don't have time to write a blog post and I just quickly shoot a video, then that's just going on social media as well. So it really depends.

Can you talk about between all of the different kind of areas in your business, how would you stack those up in terms of importance? So you have social and then you could talk about within social, what's most valuable. You have the blog and multiple blogs and then you have retail. Like what does that look like for you and what would you consider to be most important for. For your companies or your company? Holistic, however you look at it.

I think it depends. I think the overarching kind of thing is social media because social media was the sole reason our business did well. Like because we trended on TikTok, because we were viral, we were able to get six hour lines on our opening week and all of that. So that kind of Built it. So I always have to maintain that social media presence in order to kind of keep pushing the business and for, in order for it to do well while it's already built like, you know, a stable following and people always go like, you know, you still go have that boost. So like creating content for myself as well as creating content for the business, has its own business account and then doing collab posts and stuff like that, it's really helpful for the business. So that's why social media is so important for the business. And then as I explained earlier, social media is so important for my blog to keep it going. And then it also has own category where it does partnerships and you know, sponsored posts and stuff like that. And so then that of course that it's in its own way. But of course keeping them all afloat is the main thing. So having like a solid team that can help me with, you know, the stores and the food truck that I own as well, that that's super helpful because they kind of can run it and I can just oversee the main things that need to be done with it. And then it's the same with the blog. Now I've got a couple of people helping me along. So, you know, it's just keeping them afloat.

Yeah. And that's something that I think a lot of people would hear and they're like, oh, that sounds like something that I want to figure out. How do I get to a place where I can start these things and I can do the thing that I love? In your case, it sounds like social media, it's creating content and then strategically directing people to these businesses that you're creating your blog and there's people kind of supporting that it's a food truck or the, you know, retail. Would you consider them? I mean, they're crepes, right? Is that, is that the primary focus? Okay, so like a crepe shop that you're directing people to and the power of that is like, like you said you have a, you know, six hour line the day of opening, which is just incredible because you have these thousands, hundreds of thousands of followers that you can direct. And, but, but it's also you're managing a team and you're hiring people and that's really hard. So how did you learn how to do that and what have you learned about the process of building a team in order to support these things that you are creating?

I think at the beginning I really struggled because I felt like there was so much work, even just building a vlog. There was so much to it. And I'm not good at everything as well. And I think it was learning how to outsource and not rely on yourself, because I'm very much an independent person. I like to do things by myself. And I don't like it when other people do things for me because I feel like it just takes away that control. But learning to let go and then kind of just giving little bits and pieces to people was like, starting point. So for my blog, I kind of. Where I started was I started outsourcing my Pinterest. Someone does my Pinterest for me. Then I started outsourcing someone to, like, you know, maintain the blog and everything, source someone to write a couple of blog posts for me. And then from there, I think it's also meeting the right people. So I was lucky enough to meet a business partner that had a very similar vision to myself. And through that, we were able to come together to build a business that relied on each other. And then from there, building a team is a lot easier because you've had. You have someone to work with, you have someone to talk to. And we were able to, you know, at the beginning, it might have been a friend, a couple. So we built the business with four people. Four business partners are in the crepe shop. Creepu. All of us are friends. Three of us are social media content creators. So it's very good. And then once we had that, we can hire. I started hiring. I started putting out ads. Like, you know, it was just from there, it's like the more people that have. The more people you have, the more you realize how helpful more people is and you just. You start branching out and you kind of. Yeah, from there it's just. The team's just gotten bigger.

Yeah. So Korepu, tell me about that. Like, it's a crepe shop. And my guess is one of the great things about having three content creators is you have three people who really understand how to create compelling content to continue to get people through the doors. It sounds like you have two stores in different locations. What have you learned about having, like, a retail business where you're selling food?

Well, we've realized how important social media is. I think when we started, we kind of used the fact that we have three content creators with massive followings in order to boost it. Like Vincent Dimson, Lim has got over 4 million. Genie has gotten over like 1.5 million. Like, the two of them combined have already so much added to that myself as well. And then from there, we already know how the algorithm works. We know what people want to see and we understand the trends and we can hop on them and we can apply them to our business. So while of course, we don't hit every time. And it's actually harder for businesses to hit viral content because they know that it's a business and they don't usually like to boost it as much. But by knowing that, it was so much easier for us to get the ball rolling. And then when we launched our business, we had like a plan, we had like a, a timeline of we need to post two videos a day. We had heaps of content lined up. We just keep pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. And that's what kind of helped to grow. Yeah.

How much of the food that you're putting in the retail locations has to do with food that is also trending online and. And does that menu refresh relatively frequently?

So with Korea food, what we've done is we've kind of built a base. So we want to build a solid product first, because behind any business, of course, is a solid product. And you can't rely on trends and hype completely because it will die out. You know, it passes and people will stop coming. So having a solid product that people will always want to come back to, we've kind of built that base menu. That base menu's always got five to six flavors and it doesn't really change. But from there we do like special editions, like limited edition. This week we've got like recently we did one called the Dragon Passion. Was like a dragon fruit inspired crepe that was to celebrate the lunar New Year. It's super bright, vibrant black crate. And then we wanted to use that to kind of boost it. So it's just like giving it a little boost here and there, but not actually basing the crepe flavors completely on social media or trends.

Yeah, it's interesting. You have to have that balance, strike that balance where capturing a trend is great, but also like you said, it eventually kind of falls down. And so it's that. And even in the world of cookies, you know, I think of chromo cookies, they have kind of their, I think two or three kind of staple, but they're always refreshing because it also gives them content to post about. Like, that's part of it is you want something new and exciting and interesting. That's awesome. So if you were to, you know, sit across from somebody who's listening to this podcast and they're interested in becoming an entrepreneur and they're trying to figure out, like, how do I do this and how do I do it? Well, you've done it, and you've done it in multiple different instances. You've built a really strong social following. But you just didn't stop there. You said, okay, what can I now do with this? You have a cookbook, you have, you know, multiple sites. You have these stores. What would it look like for somebody who's in early stages, and what would your encouragement be to them knowing the landscape of kind of how things look right now with social platforms and websites and SEO that entire world? What would your advice be to somebody who's early stages trying to figure it out?

I think at the beginning, it's really figuring out what you like and what you find interesting and fun. Because it's only through that that I was able to channel, like, my passion into it and really build on it. Like, at the beginning, I loved food, but I also love creating things. And that's why blogging came so naturally, because I delved into that world of building ye, finding bits and pieces that improve it. And I constantly wanted to do things that to change and change and change it. So each time I built something, it wasn't because I wanted to build another part of my portfolio or to diversify or whatever it was. It was always because it was something that I found interesting again. And I have this habit of just going on multiple side ventures and doing multiple things, and it's not good. But, like, you got to focus. When you find one, you focus on it, you build it properly, you do it really well. And then you're like, once that's done, it's like, oh, you can continue. If it was one person, like most people will be happy with one, you just continue building it as a side project, or it becomes your main project and keep working on it as long as you have that interest. And you're always entertained by it. It's so easy to grow. For me, I get bored easily, so I like jumping around. So that's why for me, it came naturally to build multiple things because I wanted to try different things out. I wanted to test myself to see how I would go. But I think for anybody, it's just finding that one thing that you really, really love and you want to keep working on.

Yeah, it's. I think it's. It's such a great answer because so often it depends on who you are and how you operate in the world. And there are some people, I have a little bit of this, that love the idea of zero to one it doesn't exist. And you take something, you create it into the world and it does exist. There are other people who love taking it from like 1 to 2, right? So like they love the idea of a thing that is already existing, maybe some systems in place and they want to go and like tighten those up and make sure that it runs really smooth. But the idea of starting it from zero is like, ah, maybe that's not super appealing. And what it seems like you've done really well is you've been able to do a lot of the 0 to 1 starting a thing, growing a thing, establishing a thing, and then once it's there, finding those like one to two people who like to come in and run the thing and keep it healthy and, and to make sure that it, you know, it doesn't get neglected, even though you might shift your attention somewhere else because somebody else is going to come in and make sure that it continues to be successful. So on the other side of the coin, how about looking forward? So that was you looking back, it's like for somebody who's just starting advice that you'd have for them. How about for you? Looking forward, when you look at the next 2, 3, 4, 5 years, what are the opportunities that you see or what are the things that you are most excited about as a creator and a business owner? Looking forward.

I think looking forward, I'm kind of someone that does things spontaneously. I like to take on new challenges and whatever kind of comes in, I like to take it. And I've realized a couple of things coming is that number one, product launches on social media is something that's very, very big and something that has a lot of potential in a way. You can use social media to boost a product, to sell it. My business partner just launched a product called Yum Yum. It's his signature product. He adds it to everything. But that kind of. I helped him build that website because I have that knowledge to help him build it. And that has gone crazy. And from there we've realized that there's so much potential in this market where you can create products and sell them to your followers or to anybody really on the social media platforms. But you can raise that awareness that brands don't really have. And as someone that creates content, you kind of have the vision behind. So that's kind of somewhere with I want to go this year. That's kind of like the plan in terms of that. I've also got another venture right now where I have an opportunity to go to America to help a business do, like, desserts. And so that's another, like, kind of little pocket that I've figured out is, like, there's a very big pocket in menu planning, and they want to combine menu planning with social media. So what I've realized now is, like, a lot of restaurants are taking social media and combining it with building a menu and using a content creator or someone that has a little bit of social media presence to kind of help them boost their restaurant or their cafe or whatever it is to get their presence up and of course, to get their business running. So I've been contracted for a couple of those. So, like, I think that's something that's also different that I kind of want to go into. And then, yeah, I kind of like doing bits and pieces while other things are still running. So I'm just. Just all over the place. But I've got these. So many ideas and things that I want to do, but I always want to work on it while maintaining what I already have.

Yeah, that's great. So. And this is just an interesting area for me. So you talked about your. Your business partner, the. On Instagram Dim Sim Lim. Is that right?

Yeah, yeah.

And then created a. It's essentially a seasoning that is something that he adds to basically everything. And then that is a product that then people can sell. And just this idea of what you're saying, like, as a creator, as a somebody with a following, if you have something that is complementary to the content that you're creating and that you can also sell, it allows you to create almost like a parallel or an associated brand that's. It's different than a cookbook. It's different than sponsor content. Like, it's a product that you can actually sell. And that being a really compelling thing for people who are your followers to say, like, hey, this makes sense. I like this food. I like what this person is doing. So I'm going to then purchase this product. And it sounds like that's been like, a really successful venture. It's in that product is what is Yum Yum? Is that right? Like the Yum Yum. But, like, the site is what is Yum Yum?

Yeah.

Yep. That's great.

Yeah. Yeah, that's cool.

So a lot going on, and my guess is that people would be really excited to follow along with you to see kind of in real time what you're doing. So, Katherine, so great to talk to you. It'll be really fun to stay connected. And for those who want to follow along. What is the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, so my Instagram and TikTok handle is katherine.desserts. super easy to follow me. And then my blog is zanecatherine.com and if you want to follow our business venture as well, it's creepy crepes. So both on TikTok and Instagram. Yeah.

And if you're in Sydney or Perth, you can come by and visit.

Yes, yes, definitely. Our store in Perth is in Northbridge, so city center and Sydney, we're always moving around, so we've got a little truck. It goes around to all the major events. Our next one is the Easter show in Sydney, which is massive.

Will. Will you expand? Like, will there be another location coming down the line?

We've got so many opportunities to franchise, to build new stores. I think it's just picking the right.

Sure. All right, well, we'll stay tuned to see what happens with it. So Katherine, thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you so much.

Hey there, Emily, here from the Food Blogger Pro team. We hope you enjoyed this week's podcast episode and really appreciate you taking the time to tune in and listen. In case you didn't know, in addition to the Food Blogger Pro podcast, we also have the Food Blogger Pro membership, which is where we teach our members how to start, grow and monetize their food blog. We have lots of incredible resources to help you on your food blogging journey, including our courses, our community forum, our member only, live Q&As, our deals and discounts page, and so much more. You'll get instant access to all of this when you sign up for a Food Blogger Pro membership. We have two awesome membership options available to you. Our yearly membership or our quarterly membership, which is just $99 a quarter and allows for some more flexibility if you want to try the membership out and see if it's a good fit for you. If you're interested and want to learn more or to sign up, head to foodbloggerpro.com join. We are so grateful for our Food Blogger Pro community and we would love to have you join us. Thanks so much for tuning in this week and we'll see you back here next week for another episode. Have a great week, everybody.