462: Monetizing Three Blogs, Outsourcing Tasks, and Self-Publishing a Cookbook with Julie Evink from Julie's Eats & Treats

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Hey there, this is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team and you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. This week on the podcast, Bjork is interviewing Julie from the food blog Julie's Eats and Treats. Julie started her first blog, Julie's Eats and treats back in 2010 and since that time she has taken her site full time and also started two other blogs. Give me some Grilling and kids Activity Guide. In this interview, Julie shares more about how she grew her blog and how everything she learned from going her first site changed what she did with the other two sites. She also shares more about growing a team and how she has prioritized doing what she actually likes to do as part of her business and how she figured out what she does actually like to do. She gives some details on how she hires team members, what she looks for in a new team member, and what she really thinks is working well in her businesses at the moment. Her cookbook is also being released this month and in this interview she tells us more about the process of self publishing a cookbook, including what the financial investment was, what the process looked like, if she would recommend it or not. Everything really from beginning to end. So it's really interesting to hear her perspective on that. As a friendly reminder, if you enjoy the podcast today, we would really appreciate it if you would leave a rating or a review anywhere you listen to podcasts or even share the episode on social media or maybe in your email newsletter. We always appreciate it when you help us get the word out about our podcast. Without further ado, I'll let Bjork take it away.

Julie, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's fun to have somebody. Maybe it. Maybe the. The. The fidelity of the conversation is higher when you are closer. You're not technically just down the street, but you are as down the street as it will get when we do podcast interviews with, like, people from Australia. So it's fun to have a conversation with somebody who's close by. Here in Minnesota, I would be interested. You know, we always want to talk about somebody's story, where they're from, kind of their origin of being a creator. I kind of want to start by maybe jumping to the middle for you. And one of the things that's interesting about what you're doing right now is you're. You juggle multiple sites. So talk about kind of how things got started and then talk about starting additional sites to kind of surround what you're doing and what I would assumed to be kind of your main site.

Yeah. So I started Julie's Eats and treats in 2010, and that is my main blog. It's just an everyday Midwestern, easy meals, easy pantry, staple ingredients blog. And it's super successful. But in, I would say it was like, six years ago, I started a second site, and that is called Give Me some Grilling. And that is completely focused on doing, like, backyard grilling. So off the grill, off the smoker, and now off the Blackstone. And I created that website. I had, you know, grilling recipes here and there on Julie's Eats and Treats. And I saw this, like, evolution of backyard grillers. The smoker just started to get popular, and I was looking for recipes, and I'm like, no one's taking the Julie's Eats and Treats approach to backyard grilling. Like, easy, family friendly, not sitting by your smoker for 38 hours. Yeah, that type of thing. So I was like, I think there's, like, an opportunity here. And so I did not own a smoker. We had a really cheap grill, and I started it, and my husband came home and I was like, okay, we have a second Blog and he's like, we might need to buy a grill.

So for you, it was like a. You saw an opportunity in that content space and said, hey, I think that it would make sense to produce content here. We also know food and food sites. And so you approach it almost from like the strategy perspective, but also kind of having this skill set from the past. You know, you said you started to win 2010. Okay. And then you started the grilling site.

When in like 2018 or 19, I think.

Okay. So you had like eight or nine years of experience producing food content online. What did. I'm always interested, you know, the second time around, you're able to apply kind of this knowledge and insight. And it kind of is a. Is a real life answer to the question that we sometimes ask people, which is like, if you're to start today, what would you do in that case? What did you do that maybe was different than when you first started? Like, what was the mindset? One of them, I guess, is like, you, you had a niche, you picked what that niche was. You saw an opportunity because of the way you saw a market going, people starting to do this more, so there's an opportunity there. What were some of the other things that you did kind of from a strategy perspective? Having the eight to nine years of experience you did and then starting a new site kind of in an adjacent space.

Yeah. So, like, you know, when we started, it was like not pretty photos necessarily. We didn't write like a lot about the actual food, that type of thing. So it was fun to like jump in. And you kind of knew SEO and you knew like you needed pretty photos and you needed to share on social and have that all set up and an email list. And I mean, in 2010, I think there was Facebook and that was it. So, yeah, where Julie's eats and treats, like, the evolution of it was also like an evolution with the whole social media and all that. And we just learned as things came out where you started a new one and all that was there and it was like, okay, it was almost more overwhelming because I knew how much went into it. Where areas in 2010, it was just fun. You started it as a hobby and you didn't have all that pressure where you knew what was possible with the second one.

I would say, yep, it's. It's almost like for a handful of people who, especially who started early, it's like you are doing it because maybe you think there's an opportunity, but also because you just are naturally inclined to share content online. And it grows, it kind of grows with you. And so there isn't this inherent pressure of like, I'm going to build this thing and it's super competitive and there's a lot of like other people doing it. It's just like, oh, it becomes a thing. But when you approach it from the standpoint that you did eight, nine years down the line, it's kind of like, hey, we're going to be strategic with this. We're going to probably invest some money into it, some time into it. It's a little bit more of a business decision. So how do you weigh? And then. Well, and let's talk about this. So kids Activity Zone. You know, my guess is part of that comes from, you know, we're in this world, we have a three year old and a five year old. And so like we see all of the different things online and oftentimes I come up against them, I'm like, oh, there's kind of like a cool opportunity here to like create kids stuff. And if you know it, it's like transferring some of those skills and insights into another category. But also, again, it just takes time and effort. So talk to me about how you make decisions or how you kind of thought through. Hey, you have this success with your main site and then you want to take something from 0 to 1, which takes a decent amount of effort. And let's say if you have 30 hours in a week, 40 hours in a week, however much time you have, if you take half of that and kind of devote it to a new thing, the inherent risk, the opportunity risk is like maybe pointing that time at the thing that was pre existing and improving that a little bit would have a higher return. And I almost am like saying this to myself because I'm a starter as well. And so how do you process through some of that? Or do you. Is it like, hey, this is something that would be fun. I think it would be a cool thing and it has the potential to be a cool business. Let's do it.

So I like, back in the history of Julie, I tended to be a job hopper because I would like be like, oh, this is fun and new. And then I'd be like, got, I've got it. And then it's like, what's next?

Like, yeah, yeah, right as you got content.

Yeah, yeah. Like I was just boring to me at that point. So I think that history kind of explains the evolution of all the blogs. But I was also in management. That's what I'm trained on. I have a Bachelor's degree in hotel restaurant management. And so like my brain, like back when we were starting blogs and stuff, a lot of people kept all the tasks to themselves.

Yep.

Where my approach was never like that. I was like, as soon as I had money to invest and help, I would hire things out because my motto is, what doesn't need Julie, Julie doesn't do. So my brain is more like free to like dream and think of the next thing, whether it's a site or a cookbook or a product or whatever. And so but that helps sometimes. Starting something new is purely for my brain and, and keeping me interested in going. And it's not always for like the monetization, I would say. And the kids Activity zone was actually a Covid baby.

Sure.

I had my kids at home and I started looking for things to do and I was like, I'm not impressed by the sites I've found. And there's some really good ones, but there's a lot of them that aren't set up like food blogs where they're easy to find, they're easy to find the directions, they're easy to find, the printables. And so I was like, oh, I can do this. I can do it like a food blog and approach it that way and make it super easy to use. So that's kind of where that one started. So I will say monetization on a kid's activities is not as lucrative as recipes. I found out.

Sure. Yeah. It's interesting. I don't. I think sometimes we. People don't think about that. Like, uh, the analogy that I. Or the, the example that I often talk about is like insurance. Like if you had an insurance blog, if we had an insurance blog, which is with as much traffic as Binger bam. Like, what an incredible thing that would be. Because advertising, the world of insurance is just like through the roof because, you know, there's. It's such a lucrative industry for anybody who converts a new customer. And so just even across genres of content that can look different. So different.

And I actually have a little hobby right now of credit card point hacking. And that's like social media and a website using it for travel. And that's an affiliate thing. Like, that's where the money comes from there. And I'm used to like 3% Amazon affiliates and where these other affiliates are paying like 100 to $200 a thing. And it's just, it's so different how different blog niches. Like, it just. You make the money different areas.

Yeah. And you think of sites like the Point sky, where it's like, that's all that they talk about. And people go and they look about how to optimize credit card tacking. Here's a question about that. We. I'm terrible at that. Like, I'm terrible at travel, and I'm terrible at, like, optimization of points. Like, somehow I always end up sitting, like, next to the bathrooms in the very back seat and, like, probably paid more than anybody else. We just recently and for a long time, I was just like, strictly debit cards. I was like, that's all that we're going to do. And I was like. And then eventually Lindsay's like, what?

Why?

Like, I was like, debit cards, debit cards, debit cards. And then eventually it was like, actually, we're spending quite a bit of money, like, within the businesses. You know, personally, like, it probably makes sense to think strategically about this.

Do you.

Is the. Is the main opportunity with credit card hacking? Like, credit card point hacking, like, setting up and closing out accounts, or is it, like, because we have, like, American Express, you know, Delta Sky Miles cards, Like, that's what we're doing. And we'll maybe get, like, decent flights within it. So maybe this could turn into, like, a credit card points podcast. We could do, like, a segment on it. But, like, what is your strategy for doing it? Is it have. Does it have to do with opening cards and getting points and then transferring those? Primarily, yeah.

So a lot of it is these credit card signup bonuses where you sign up and then you get 75,000 points if you spend $3,000 in three months. So a lot of it's that.

Yeah.

And it's just being strategic about that and referring your player to. Which would be Lindsay for you.

Sure, sure.

And, like, opening up another one. But it's fun. Like, I saved $16,000 on a vacation I just booked for my family for next February. So, I mean, points.

Yeah. That's awesome.

Yeah.

So here's my last question with that, and then we can get back to talking about blogging. Would you do the, like, purple Delta card? That's the thing that I always kind of wonder is, like, should I do that? It's like, where you have to pay $650 a year, which just feels so ridiculous.

I didn't do the purple Delta card. I did the Amex Platinum business card. And that's like $695. You have to look at, like, what they give you for that. So, like.

Yeah, yeah.

You're like, because I have the silver Delta one.

Yep.

And so you'll get like the companion pass and all that stuff. So y kind of have to weigh like how much you're traveling and if it's going to make sense.

This section brought to you by Amex. Maybe we'll see if we can get them as a sponsor. Yeah, okay, Interesting. So you have these sites, you're kind of load balancing across them and you talked about working with a team and one of the things that you talked about that I really like is this idea is like, if it doesn't matter if you do it, then you don't do it. Is that more or less what you're saying? Like, yeah. And there's a lot of those things. Like I do a lot of those things. I think about that every day. Like I show up, I'm doing these things and it's like, gosh, this doesn't really matter if I'm doing it. It needs to get done. It's important for it to get done, but it doesn't necessarily matter if I'm doing it. What has that been like to find people to work with, to train people to work with. And then what does your current team look like?

Yeah, so those tasks you talk about, I always feel like there's some of them that like maybe kind of slip because I just didn't enjoy doing them. It wasn't in my space. And so I'm a firm believer of hiring people that would like thrive in that position where I am not. So I would just literally start a list and I would write down what I didn't enjoy doing, didn't bring me joy, didn't fill my cup. And then as my income progressed and I had the opportunity to hire that out, I would find someone to do that. And the ways I kind of found people was really over social media, just personally or through my blog. And I, I actually really like to hire people that are like 5, 10, 15 hours. It's their, their stay at home, mom, need some extra cash, things like that. Where I found it nice because if somebody quit, I could scoop up those tasks and it didn't stress me out.

Sure.

Where if I had a full time employee and they quit, I cannot as easily scoop up tasks and get them done for a month till I find somebody else. So for me, that was kind of what worked. And I never had like, I need a full time employee. I have that many things to do. If I took everyone now, I could pro, I could. But at that time I would just hire as things like I needed help. So that's kind of how I built my team. And I probably have, I mean I have some professionals, I mean photographers and videographers. But then I also have like the more virtual assistant positions that are those like 5, 10, 15 hour a week jobs.

Yep. And my guess is that, you know, you have somebody 5 hours, 10 hours, it's flexible for them. They can work when they want to work. It's a contracted position. So are those people sending you an invoice then? And just like whatever their process is for invoicing, they maybe have multiple clients, maybe they don't. And then you, or maybe somebody on your team like processes the invoices for those people that you're working with.

Yep, exactly. So I just have them usually it's once a month or once every two weeks, depending on how they want it set up. They're subcontractors, they invoice me. And that's the thing, like it's a flexible position. And I being a mom, being a woman, I just felt like this was my opportunity to kind of give back. I live in rural Minnesota. A lot of them are somewhat local and there's not a lot of positions and they're kind of hard to find.

And so like a remote position that's 10 hours a week. Yep.

Yeah. So it was just like, well, this is like how I can get back to my community and kind of like give these people opportunity to do something while staying at home with their kids and things like that. So that's kind of how I looked at it.

Yep, that's great. So to recap, essentially it's like you keep this list and the list is like a little bit of a monitor around the things that you might be doing that you don't want to be doing. Or you know, maybe you do like doing them, but they're not the best thing for you to be doing. You have this list and then over time you can kind of create a little part time job around it. And then using your community, social media, the following that you have put a little bit of like a soft ask out. Hey, does anybody know somebody who'd be a good fit? Would you be a good fit for this? Do you actually put like a job description on your site somewhere and say, here's what it is, or is it more of like, I'm looking for somebody to help with Pinterest, five hours a week. If you're interested, send me an email.

Yeah, it's usually just like a static post I put on like social media and it's like Five to ten hours a week. This is kind of what it is. And then description. I'll say, email me, shoot me a message, let me see your resume. And that's usually how. And I get wonderful applicants.

So, yeah, extremely qualified, extremely capable people who want a flexible job.

People that are, like, already familiar with my site, because that's where I'm asking. You know what I mean? Which is a huge thing.

Yep. That's great. So this is kind of in the weeds, but I'm just curious, what does it look like for you? Is that something where then you're, like, actively managing, or is it more of like, hey, you have this role, you have this position, and that's just kind of what it is. We'll kind of check in, make sure that everything's going okay. All stuff, send, send stuff over. My guess is you're not doing, like, you know, there's not like, a team meeting or, like, a team standup or, like, something like that. It's like, people have their positions. Do team members interact at all? Like, do you have, like, a slack space where people work or what does that look like?

No, it's really, like, when I hire them, I'm always like, I am not a micromanager. Like, yeah, I hire people I think that can do the job. And if we need to retrain or anything, we'll talk. Like, you have questions, you ask me. But it's very, like, they do their own thing. They have a very specific, like, realm that they live in. And I send them tasks. I use asana, and I just send them tasks. And we set up their schedule like they like it. Some people, like, want everything due on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Some people like, one thing a day. Like, it's very flexible. And I try to, like, make it so it meets their needs. And I'm always like, it doesn't. I don't want this to be a stress in your life. If it is, we need to talk. So that's really how I approach it.

That's great.

And then how about you?

Like, what does your. You've been doing this, you know, like, we have for 14 years. Like, my guess is what you've done has evolved and looks different today than it did 14 years ago. What does a typical day or week look like for you?

Yeah, so I also have my husband that works with me. He quit his job two years ago, built us a house, and then came on full time with us.

Awesome.

I was getting really burned out in, like, the recipe, developing aspects, and so he kind of Took that over.

And.

He'S the man that probably could make a pizza when we got married. So very impressive.

Yeah, incredible.

But my day to day basis is really like I manage the team and the tasks. I do a lot of like the keyword research and what recipes I want developed and just like I manage more of the, like I would say I'm like definitely the manager by now. Does that make sense? Like I'm not.

It's like almost like operations.

Yeah.

And less of the like maybe what you'd consider to be like individual contributor work like content creation, photography, video. You talked about that. So is most of your time you have a day, you have some time allocated to work, you'll sit down and it's computer work.

Yeah, 99% computer work.

And you have a team that's working to develop the recipe, photograph the recipe, produce video content and write as well.

And manage social media.

And social media. So that's a big evolution from being the primary person that is creating it. You know, it's always so interesting to see with people navigate into their ideals and create their ideal job. It's one of the benefits that we have and we can talk about that. But you know, it for me looks different than it would for you, than it looks different for Lindsay. Like Lindsay's dream would actually be to only spend time in the kitchen and to like maybe never be on a computer. And for other people it's like they would love to live in the numbers and the analysis. And I think it's one of the things that's so incredible about the work we do is like, even though it seems so similar, there's actually all of these different, you know, quote unquote job descriptions that we can build for ourselves. So for you, as you thought about kind of building your ideal, was it the continual refinement of, of your job through the process of saying these are the things that I don't want to do and passing those off to getting it to a place now where you are primarily doing the things that only you want to do.

Yeah, I never really went in with. It was like, I want to be the operations person and just like do all the like delegating and stuff. Like that was never my intention. It's just like as you handed off those things, you're like, oh, so that's really what I do enjoy. Like it was kind of a self reflection thing.

Yeah.

And I like to see like, I like to grow and build and create like a business so that like I'm not the creative brain Space, probably, like, when I got into it, like, reflecting. Now I'm like, no, I like the challenge of growing something. I don't.

Yep.

I mean, I want to help people. I want to, like, have recipes, and I love the idea of that. But, like, my true passion and my talent, I would say, is to, like, manage and get everyone, like, find other people to thrive in positions that I wouldn't thrive in.

Yeah. It's almost like what you are building is just as much, you know, for some people would be like a recipe, but for you, it's like your recipe is the business. Like, the thing that you are building is the business, and that's the. That's almost like the creation. Does that feel accurate?

100%. Yep.

Yeah. And, like, that's kind of your canvas then that you're building on. So when you look at what you're doing now and kind of that evolution, what do you feel like has been most beneficial for you to actually achieve that, to get the growth of a business without you being involved? Because I think for a certain group of people, that sounds like a really desirable thing. You know, you have this business, you build the business in a way where you kind of replace yourself, and then what happens is you kind of are orchestrating the business, but that's a hard thing to do. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of creativity, takes a lot of effort. What do you feel like has been most helpful for you as you've made that transition into being a place where you can do that?

I think, like, having the right people, like, with you. You know what I mean? And, like, having, like, they're doing their job and stuff, but. And it's virtual, but knowing, like, the people you trust you, like, and you begin that, like, trust. And I mean, because they're touching, like, they're doing your baby, like, right. This is, like, what you grew. And to have that trust in that relationship and that, like, support, I think, is so important. And, like, I also think when Jason came home, having. It's been interesting, but, like, having that support from him, too. Like, he's always been super supportive, but, like, sometimes it's a lonely road, as we all know, and to, like, connect with other people. And, like, he comes on, and I'm like, I don't. I don't like doing this. Would you want to, like, pick up this side and, like, that, to type of, like. And, like, sitting down and being like, well, what's our goals now? Or whatever? And just. I think it got really lonely on top.

Yeah. Totally.

And finding that like support and cheerleader and all of that I think really is important.

Yeah, it's. I think it's one of the realities that a lot of us face is like we're creating businesses digitally that we own and so naturally we don't have co workers and naturally we're going to not be in an office. You know, we might be in our home office, but so we don't have coworkers. And so it can get to be really lonely. And if you have a spouse who can come alongside you, incredible. Like that can be a really beneficial thing. If not, I think important to think about. Who is that person? Do you have thoughts on or maybe have you seen situations where people maybe don't have that partner? Like maybe because they don't have partner, or maybe it's somebody who doesn't really get it and isn't super supportive. Like where do you think people find that? Because it's still an important thing to have kind of a support network. And so what does that look like and how do you do that? Especially in a like in real life situation where it feels like that's maybe the most valuable or as close as real life as you can get.

Yeah, like we're lucky because we started blogging so early and I feel like we naturally all like lifted each other up kind of because none of us knew what we were doing right. We're all just trying to figure it out. So like people that are don't have that support in like their day to day basis, I would just say like find other food bloggers, like join a mastermind. Create a mastermind. Like yeah, for sure do those type of things because go to a conference, meet people. Because people don't get what we do and they do more now I would say like it's becoming more normalized than it was like five, 10 years ago. But and then like even your friends, like even finding like a couple friends that might not totally get what you do, but you could take a break and go out to lunch with or go grab coffee or something like that. And not completely completely like secluding yourself or finding someone that may not be a food blogger but maybe they own their own business or graphic designer or something and being. And like kind of like bouncing ideas off of. I did a lot of that in our community and stuff. And just finding those little people in your life that can kind of just be that support system I think is so important.

Yep, that's great.

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You've done a lot. So we've talked about your three sites. You also have experimented with and have launched. It looks like some rubs or like seasoning for the grilling site. You have a cookbook that's coming out which we can talk about. I'm interested to hear, like, as a creator who's done a lot of different things and had success in those different areas, what do you feel like is the thing that's working well for you right now?

I think it's always going back to the recipes. Like I like to serve people in that area. And it also is so flexible, like that part of the food blog world, like creating our own schedule and all that. You don't have physical products, like they always say to like diversify your income. Right? And that's great and all, but as I like had physical products, um, it's a Whole new world. Right. I mean, there's shipping and there's ordering.

And there's marketing and product development.

Yeah, yeah. And I always think, like, the ROI on building a site tends to, for me at least, just be so much better. So I keep going back to that, I guess, and I think that brings me the most joy. So I naturally go back to that.

Yep. Like the. A website that brings traffic and that traffic is monetized via affiliate or advertising, maybe working with brands that as a formula is working well. Is that what you're saying? Generally speaking, yeah.

And it's.

And within that recipe content. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

That passive income is. I mean.

Yeah.

I mean, that's all of our goals.

Yep. So in for the sites themselves, could you talk a little bit about, like, what is working from a traffic perspective? I think people are always interested to hear. You know, for a lot of people, it's search. For others, it's Pinterest. You know, some people have a really good strategy around email. Is there anything that you could kind of shine a light on, like, hey, this is something that's been like, helpful or has been working well?

So my sites have always been slow and steady growth. I've never had like that unicorn moment. So. And I think we get hooked up on that. Like, oh, you watch somebody and also they'll launch off and it's like, where's my moment? But I have always been slow and steady and my traffic has always been pretty diversified. So I mean, it's usually like 30 some percent Google, 30 some percent Pinterest. And then like the rest is made up of like Facebook and email and different things like that. And I, I get stuck and I'm like, I see all these people like, oh, search is huge. Search is huge for them. And it's like. But then I'm like. But then if something happens and something updates and search, like. So I have to remind myself not to get kind of hung up on, like, oh, I'm not like way up on Google or way up on Pinterest. I like my mix. I have just gotten into email a lot more in the last year and I've really focused on growing that. And I always go back to. That's the people you kind of own. Right. Like I just said, the algorithm can update and something happens. And I truly think, like, in this day and age, that email and like, the things that, like if you're in the food blogging and know about, like the cookies going away and all that stuff, I just think email is really where it's at right now. And everyone should be like, at least trying to focus on that, because that's really me.

Yeah, it's, it's important to point out just this idea of like, you know, cookies, third party cookies going away. The importance for anybody working with an advertiser to have email addresses because those represent like a first party identifier which allows you to like serve more targeted ads. So not only is there the benefit of growing your email list, which allows you direct contact with people, which is a really beneficial thing, but then it also allows you, if you are doing advertising, to earn more in advertising per visit if it's coming from somebody who's been identified through their email address. So a really important thing to point out probably could be an entire deep dive podcast episode just on that. But I'm glad that you pointed that out because it is really important and I love that idea of like consistent, diversified, steady growth. And you know, we're in a season where a lot of people have been impacted by a Google algorithm update. And it's like, if the majority of your traffic is from search and you get a Google algorithm update, like that's a bummer because it's like that's felt in a very real way. But if you can think strategically about saying, okay, I get a lot of search traffic and what would it look like then to think strategically about email as well, or Pinterest, like you said, to diversify. That is a really helpful thing. And you know, you kind of called this out a little bit too, to also be aware of like, oh man, every. There's always going to be somebody who has astronomical growth somewhere, no matter the business you're in. You could be an actor, you could be a landscaper, you could be a food blogger. There's always going to be a case where there's somebody who's experiencing something that is really desirable. And so much of what it looks like for us is finding ways that we can continually show up and in an inspired way and kind of avoid that compare and despair mindset, which I think is so easy and so common.

It is. And it's so easy to do. And every time you get to like the next level, I feel like you just look up to the next level.

It's just like the next thing.

Yeah, you never celebrate like where you're at, like, I really did that. And then it's just like you immediately look for the next thing. And it's like, sometimes you just gotta.

Get out of your own head for sure. Talk to me a Little bit about your cookbook. What was the process like for that? And you know what going into it, did you have any thoughts or strategies around kind of how you wanted to approach it?

Yeah, so I think like cookbook writing and releasing for food bloggers have really, like, it's shifted in the last few years. I remember like five, seven years ago, a comp, like a publishing company would contact you and be like, I need a hundred recipes on this topic and I'm gonna, in three months, I'm gonna pay you $5,000. Like I had those. And I was like, did the math and I'm like, I can't even pay for ingredients and test those, let alone come up with a hundred recipes in a really short amount of time. And it was always kind of hard to pass up those because I, like wanted a cookbook and stuff. But like, when you sat down and penciled it out, it just didn't make sense.

Right.

And so I think in the last two years, I've seen other food bloggers come out with cookbooks and they're self published. And I was like, I saw one of my friends did it and I reached out and I was like, how did you do that? Who helped you? Because it was like to me, self publishing was like, you had to figure it all out. You had to figure out the layout and you had to figure out the printing and the editing and the like, all the logistics. And that was super overwhelming to me. And so once again, I wanted to find somebody that could help me. Right. Because that's kind of the name of my game. And last January, I sat down with Jason, my husband, and we were just kind of going through our goals and I was like, my bucket list item is I want to write a cookbook. And I'm like, I don't know if I'll actually make any money. I don't know if I'll sell it. Like, you know what I mean? But like, that's my bucket list. And he's like, let's do it, let's do it this year. And so I reached out to a self publisher and contacted her and we got things lined up and started in the spring. And it was so nice because, like, all that stuff I said was overwhelming. Like, they just walk you right through it. They have the context, they have the editor, they have the printers, they have the shipment, they have the distribution. Like, they have all of that. So like, my job was to come up with the content, which I chose. What nice thing about self publishing is, like, you don't have anyone telling you what you need, what your cookbook needs to look like. So you get to choose your content and how you structure it and what's included. And so I just, I got to make it exactly what I would want in a cookbook and what I would thought would help my readers. Yeah, the best.

Yep. It's like you have complete control over it, which is really nice to not have somebody else kind of weighing in or trying to like craft what they think it should be. It's just like you get to do it. And like you said, usually the intimidating thing in a situation like that would be like, I have to learn how to do all of these things. But it sounds like what you said is like you found somebody who knew all of those things and just kind of walked you through it. Can you talk about even just like from a business standpoint, like what does the initial investment look like? And then, you know, and it could be ranges like also, what are you able to earn when you sell a self published cookbook? Will you do a run of like, you know, a thousand cookbooks and have those or will it be print on demand? Talk a little bit about that because I think people would be interested to hear.

So I mean, just the self like hiring the public publisher and stuff like that. I mean that was $30,000. So it's large investment. And then you have to like, I did like, I forgot to pause and like kind of think about like, oh, I'm gonna have some new recipes, I need to hire like a photographer that and you know, all those things. Like I have to ship the cookbooks from China to the US And I have to pay to have them. And there's a lot of ways you can like distribute them. Where I went with like a distribution person, where they set up Amazon for me, they set up like getting online with Barnes and Noble and Target, Walmart and all of those things. So I had a larger investment. My cookbook sells for $34.99 and I get about 1224 back on each cookbook. And you can totally, if you want to set up a Shopify site or whatever you choose and sell it and ship it and house it and do all that you can and you will get a bigger return. But to me, I didn't want the headache of figuring out sales tax and shipping and storage for how many cookbooks you order. Like for what I did, you have to order them in bulk. You can order like 3000, you can order like 5000, you can order 10,000. I went with 5000. Just because you get a break on them after so many. And that's just like. And you kind of like are just throwing a dart at a dartboard, Right. You have no idea.

You haven't done it before, so it's like you don't really know and.

Yeah, yeah, so that's just what I went with. And then yeah, they're all in a warehouse at a distribution center and they have the connections with Amazon. So when somebody orders on Amazon, Amazon has ordered from this distribution warehouse and they have them stocked and different things like that. So there's a lot of behind the scenes things that I never imagined.

Yeah. But the nice thing is, like you said, if you work with somebody who knows that process, they're able to walk you through it. So you're not necessarily having to learn it. How did you find that person? The person who has kind of played the role of. It's almost like a general contractor, but instead of building a house, you're building a cookbook.

Right. Unfortunately, Jason can build me a house, but he cannot build me a cookbook.

So. Yeah, right.

Lauren from Taste Better from Scratch had just released a cookbook and we know each other. So I just reached out to her and she worked with a self publisher and gave me her contact info. So I approached her and did like a meeting with her. And I'm a firm believer of you need to click with people or like, you know, right away if you kind of do or don't. And we did and Lauren raved about her. So that's kind of how I picked her and went with her.

Yep. And the great thing about that is, you know, we talk about on the podcast occasion this idea of product. And it's one of the great ways to diversify income if you, let's say you're primarily earning from affiliate or maybe ads. To have a product is a really great thing. And like a physical cookbook is a product. And now you can, you know, every hundred people that sign up for your email list, maybe one or two of them ends up buying a cookbook. Like you start to build in these layers and it kind of goes back to that diversification as well. So it's just like all of that over time weighs in on that slow and steady growth kind of trajectory that you talked about and it stacks. And you do that for 14 years and suddenly you have this really incredible business that, that allows you autonomy, flexibility, and also is. Can be like a really well paying job, but you have to do it for a long period of time and you have to like show up every single day. And so for anybody who's out there kind of in the middle of it, what would your advice be to them to figure out how to like, stick with something for a long period of time?

Yeah, I mean, I finally quit my full time job. I started in 2010 and I didn't quit my full time job until 2017 or 15. So I mean, never like always know, like, yeah, it looks wonderful right now. Right? We're in 2024. I got this team. It's amazing. I'm like, got this flexible schedule. There was a lot of years where that was not the case. And don't compare your now to like my now. Like, it doesn't, it's not the same. And I think that's where we, a lot of times go wrong is like seeing where they are after 14 years to where we are after two years. And yeah, that's not the same. But the really big thing is to, I mean, put your head down and don't compare yourself to other people and like, find your passion and run your business like you want to run it. Like, find out that works for you. What works for me and my team and how I built it may not work for you. Maybe you need an operations person and you want to do the content creation. Like, yeah, that's the joy of this. You can create it however you want. And just to keep working and if things are going to fail and not to get hung up on that, to try to learn from it and try something else or ask questions for somebody or use the resources that are amazingly out there now that I didn't have. And just to keep plugging away and growing and steady and slow does not mean you're not growing. It just means that you're building a great foundation. And I think that's so important too.

That's awesome. Yeah, I think there's so much truth in that. Like, we can often compare ourselves to somebody else. That's, it's like not a fair comparison for whatever reason, like, time being one of them, maybe like available resources another. Like, we all just have such unique perspectives and unique situations that we're bringing to the table. And there's something so valuable about like playing your own game, like defining what that is, defining what your rules are, you know, and defining what success looks like for you and then getting after it within your own realm of like, success and playing your own game. I think that's, that's awesome.

Right?

So kind of fun because as of right now, like, when this podcast is scheduled to go out is also the day that your cookbook is officially set to be released. So if people want to check that out, where can they do that? We'll link to it in the show notes, include it in the email as well, and so let us know where we can find it. And then any, like, fun launch things that you're going to be doing when? On May 21st?

Yeah. So we have. Well, first of all, they can find it online at Amazon, Target, Walmart, Barnes and Noble, they all are stocking it. But I have a local boutique, Inherit and Co, and they are a lot online, like 90% of their business. And they do live sales and I know the owners and stuff. So they just finished off this beautiful old building. They redid it, and it has a gorgeous kitchen in it. And they're like, we would love to do something with you sometime. And I was like, this is the perfect opportunity. So we are actually. We sold tickets to a live event. Cool. And so there's going to be an audience and we are going to sell my cookbook and whoever orders one gets a signed copy during it. And I will be making a few of my recipes that night and the audience gets to taste them and we get to hang out and fun. Yeah. It's something new, it's something unique, and it's just kind of a fun launch. Launch celebration.

This is Inherit Company. It's like a clothing company.

Yeah.

Oh, cool. Yeah, I have it pulled up. That's awesome.

Yeah.

Oh, what a fun way to kick it off. Yeah. Well, congratulations on doing that, like, huge success. Just in order to get through the process of doing it. And. And also, so great to hear your story. And. And I love kind of this theme of like, consistent, slow, steady growth and what happens. It's like, you know, we named our company Tiny Bit. It's like Tiny Bit better every day forever. And what happens is like, you know, you do all of these things day in and day out, and it culminates in, like, you have this cookbook and people buy tickets to an event and you are able to launch a thing into the world, but the only way you can get there is through, you know, a thousand small steps. There's a Food Blogger Pro member in the forums who talked about kind of feeling overwhelmed. And she said, but I remember, inch by inch, everything is a cinch. I was like, oh, I love that. Like, I hadn't heard it before, but I feel like it so applies to everything that we do day in and day out. So last little shout out if People want to follow along with what you do. Julie, we've talked about a few different sites, but is there like a social platform that you do spend some time on? I know you have your team kind of doing a lot of that, but if people want to reach out or connect with you, follow along with what, what you're up to. What's the best way to do that?

Definitely Instagram. I am on there. That is how I connect with people. And it truly I love it because I get to like interact with people. So I am the one on stories and I am the person there.

Great. Okay, so we'll make sure to point people there if they want to connect with you there. Congratulations on the book launch and continued success, Julie. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

Hey there, Emily, here from the Food Blogger Pro team. We hope you enjoyed this week's podcast episode and really appreciate you taking the time to tune in and listen. In case you didn't know, in addition to the Food Blogger Pro podcast, we also have the Food Blogger Pro membership, which is where we teach our members how to start, grow and monetize their food blog. We have lots of incredible resources to help you on your food blogging journey, including our courses, our community forum, our member only live Q&As, our deals and discounts page, and so much more. You'll get instant access to all of this when you sign up for a Food Blogger Pro membership. We have two awesome membership options available to you, our yearly membership or our quarterly membership, which is just $99 a quarter and allows for some more flexibility. If you want want to try the membership out and see if it's a good fit for you. If you're interested and want to learn more or to sign up, head to foodbloggerpro.com join. We are so grateful for our Food Blogger Pro community and we would love to have you join us. Thanks so much for tuning in this week and we'll see you back here next week for another episode. Have a great week everybody.

Sam.