463: How a Love of SEO and Entrepreneurship Helped Shaunda Necole Grow Three Successful Websites and Hit 1 Million Monthly Pageviews

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Hey there. This is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team and you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. This week on the podcast, Bjork is interviewing Shawna Nicole from the food blog the Soul Food Pot. She also happens to run two other websites, one of which is a personal website and another of which is a travel blog all about Las Vegas. In this interview, she shares more about her journey of entrepreneurship, starting from her first business owning a cheerleading product company to how she got to where she is today. In this interview, Shonda also chats more about her love of keyword research and SEO and how that has really shaped the growth of her websites and the success of her businesses. Shonda even provides consulting to other creators, especially those looking for some guidance after all of the recent helpful content updates. And she has a really awesome perspective on SEO and Google and just how to deal with all of these algorithm updates that have been coming at us lately. It's a really fun interview hearing all about Shonda's journey and we know you'll love it, so I'm just gonna let Bjork take it away.

Shonda, welcome to the podcast.

Hi Bjork. Hi everyone. Yeah, nice to be here.

We're gonna talk. There's a lot of things that we can talk about because you're doing a lot of different things, but I'd be interested to start with kind of your fascination with the world of SEO. And I know for a lot of people listening to the Podcast, it's can be a necessary evil. It's like the people wanna produce content, they wanna build a blog, they wanna build a following. And it's like, and I have to do this thing that is SEO. It's not true for everybody. A lot, a lot of people love it as well. And you're one of those people who actually really loves the world of SEO and search. Did that come after you started to produce content online or had you always kind of been fascinated in that, with that and you were like, hey, I should start a site. If I'm going to be fascinated with SEO, I might as well start a site. What came first?

Both are true.

So.

And I have three sites. So at the very first site it was definitely not the case where I knew anything about SEO. We ran a retail store for cheerleaders. So I had a cheerleading company before and I remember people would send us emails, you know, about because we had a website about, you know, we can help you with your SEO. I had no idea what SEO stood for. So I definitely didn't start the way that would have been ideal where I came in knowing how to do this first. By the time I got to the second blog, that was the case. But I think my fascination started with Pinterest where I used to teach Pinterest marketing. I still love Pinterest. If anyone's not using it, it is a blogger's best kept secret. And Pinterest being a search tool, what a lot of consumers don't realize that it's a search engine. And it was just really neat just being a visual person to use Pinterest and to see all of the colorful bubbles which are your keywords. And then when you search, you know, unlike Google, you predominantly on Google you get a lot of text and your results were on Pinterest. You get beautiful pens and pictures and it just was, you know, it's easy and then you click through and then you're off to, you know, someone's blog or website or product and you know, to find whatever it is that you came there searching for. So Pinterest just made sense to me from a visual because it had that visual component to it. And I began to really study and deep and I'm. Whenever I'm into something, I am pretty laser focused. So I got laser focused on Pinterest and then once I learned something, I'm always eager to like tell the world and share. So I began teaching Pinterest and from there the fascination with search began. From there.

Yeah, it's almost like A gateway drug. It's like you have the images, so it's not like a hundred percent technical. And so it kind of gets you into this world of like, oh, you can create a piece of content, you can optimize it. It still is like a version of SEO. It's just on a platform that maybe also has a bend towards, like, design, esthetic. And then it's like, wait, now this similar but different can kind of apply to another world, which would be Google, and. But some of the same concepts apply. I'll be interested to talk more about Pinterest before we get too far away from it. I'm interested to hear about your first business. So it's, you know, the comparison that I have in our world are really good. Couple friends are launching a wedding business.

Oh, wow.

And our friend, he already has a videography business. He shoots videos for Pinch of Yam. And now they're launching a venue called White and Sable. We can add a link to it in the show notes as they're trying to build in their SEO. But it's so funny because, like, for 15 years we've been doing this, like, building a blog. And now Angela, our friend, is reaching out to me and she's like, all into this world of SEO because they have a site and they want to rank for it and they want to be strategic about it. So it's been a really fun connection point for us. My guess is it's kind of a similar thing where you have this cheerleading business. It's a retail business, so it doesn't need to be like search forward, but you're also adjacent in that you want to show up when somebody's searching for, like, cheerleader store near me. Or maybe you just have an e commerce store. So what did that business teach you? Both about search, but also just about business?

Yeah, great question. And congratulations to your friends, by the way. I'm rooting for them. Yeah, thanks. I've been an entrepreneur for about 20 years and because of almost 20 years, because of the cheerleading store. So it all started because I was a cheerleader. It was one of the. Sounds corny, but one of the best things in my life. I learned teamwork, responsibility, just really core values of community. And. And so I always carry that with me from high school. And then, you know, I have a daughter and I was so fortunate and very giddy and happy that she wanted to be a cheerleader. So we did the cheerleader, the travel circuit, and competition teams. And what I found as we dove, you know, all the way in on this is that at that time, we're talking back in 2006. 2006. 05 06. That there was nowhere to buy. Like, try on things, walk into a store, try things on. Everything was not even Internet at that time, but catalog purchase. Yeah. So you couldn't just walk in, try on a pair of shoes. Cheerleading shoes run totally different than street shoes. So it was just a whole thing. So my husband, he's been an entrepreneur first, so he was like, up, there's a void, let's fill it. So he had no cheerleading background, which actually was amazing and excellent because he was always pretty much the person that could see the forest from the trees and, you know, would be able to guide us without us. You know, we were emotionally attached, you know, because of teens and all kinds of things. So we started that store and we started with a website. And what was it? I think I try to remember the name as we go along, but it was a website, kind of the plug and play. This was before wix and all the things that the tools that make it easy for us today. And in business, I learned so much. I mean, it was just before the days of Square. So, like, for example, for us, our cash register system was about $3,000.

We couldn't just get super clunky and.

Oh, my gosh, yeah, big back clunky, the whole thing. So I learned so much about taxes, actually, because, you know, a payroll and we had, you know, employees and, you know, profit and loss. And the big thing that we learned from the cheerleading store, which I think definitely transcended for me into going online in the later days, we. Well, to start with, first, we learned that it was really necessary for us to create our own products. And that was really where our profit margin was going to be in actually manufacturing our own products. So we scaled from a retail store in the mall to maybe about eight years later to a retail store in an office warehouse space because Amazon became our customer and they would buy directly from us. And that point we were manufacturing hair bows and hoodies and T shirts and.

All your own product. So you had. You launched a brand.

Right.

And that. And then you sold that brand through the channels that you had already established to resell other brands.

Exactly. And so Amazon had some light SEO in there. My husband played more with that at the time, but it was kind of like getting your products Amazon ad. So we kind of played with that when it was holiday time. And so you had to put the keywords in. And of course, when you launched a product you know, you wanted to boost that same kind of concept. Get those almost like a podcast, getting those first ratings. I think it's similar on Amazon today, so that the. That product would rise to the top. So there was some light SEO in there. But we definitely just learned a lot about business and working with Amazon. It was amazing for us in the cheerleader space. We were like the first company in that space to make it onto Amazon. And we sold both channels where they bought from us. We shipped and sold directly to them in big pallet order sizes. And then we also sold as a seller on the platform as well. So it's kind of sometimes even competition between our own products. But we learned just the whole e commerce thing. So when I came into the online space, I really had a kind of a leg up on how things work from the whole Amazon business experience.

Yeah. And even so much of what you learn is like all the stuff that you talked about with like a PNL and taxes and.

Right.

I think, you know, the reality of running on a platform, whether it's Amazon or, you know, an E commerce shop, and part of it is almost like conditioning. I don't know if this applies in the world of cheerleading, but I've just picking up like tennis again and I'm like, oh, my, like, wrist is always sore now. And I was like, it was never sore when I played all the time. And I feel like as an entrepreneur, you get conditioned around like, hey, we, we have the thing which is like cheerleading the product, but then you also have the thing that supports the thing, which is the P and L and making sure that you're keeping track of inventory and like taxes and just the reality of all of that that surrounds a business.

Right.

And it gives us an advantage and kind of a leg up. Like you said, when you do start your next thing, what happened to that business? Did you wind it down or is it still around or sell it or what did that look like?

We winded it down and it all took shape organically. So all of our employees were cheerleaders. Go figure. So we would purposely hire cheerleaders because they understood the business, the sport, you know, they understood the sport. And that was people who are in that industry. It's almost kind of cult, like die Hard. So we needed people who really understood that model of sports. And so as my last girls began, it was just organic. They would go to college and kind of naturally, you know, go on and make a life for themselves. So I stopped hiring as they went on to do that. And to shorten the story of how I got into the online space, it also just kind of, I transitioned into that and it all just took shape together. But I started collecting a brand of product, McKenzie Childs. I still collect them and they off they will pre Covid they would have this in person event every year where they sold like this huge sale where everything was like 50 to 80% off and their products are pretty pricey. So it was like a really big deal. So fanatics like myself would go to the sale. It's like a little village of 900 people, but 20,000 people would come in to buy like all these products over three days. It was insanely wonderful. And so I decided if I'm going to go to this sale, I, you know, the entrepreneur in me said why don't you put an ad out there and see if folks will like, if you can shop for other people and like start a personal shopping service. And they'll, they'll be my clients and they'll pay me for it. And basically it would just pay for my whole trip. That's all I even wanted was just, you know, if I pay for my trip and I can buy stuff there, I'm good. So my, I did that and one of my clients, I've easily got clients just from ebay putting it out there. And one of my clients said hey, the brand is having a, a contest and you can skip the line because remember I told you there's like 20,000 people that come through trying to get in, especially on day one and if you win you can skip the line. So I didn't have social media back then, so my daughter was just graduating from high school and she made my first Instagram account. And from there I did all this posting and I actually won the contest. And I made all these friends, you know, with all the hashtags we were using, I made all these friends that were collectors as well. And it was just such a wonderful experience and I kept the account. And then she created my first website which was a wix site at the time and that's how my, my clients would keep in touch with me. I started blogging about the products and then every year at that sale I, you know, put up my product which was my personal shopping service and they would be able to purchase from there. And it just totally evolved into my first blog which is now my name shondanicole.com and it a lifestyle site kind of like all of us, full of all kinds of, yeah, journalistic entries about what I ate today and you know, what product I'm loving. So that's how it took shape.

It. One of the things that I think is so fun to think about is when we let ourselves go and just like our brains kind of think about what do we love doing? What is something that we're passionate about? What do people need who maybe are also passionate about a similar thing? I think sometimes what we can do is we can get kind of locked in on, like, hey, this is. This is like the path forward. It looks like this. Here's how you do it. But there's like a million, literally a million different ways that we could all be going about building a career. Or if not a career, like side hustle.

Right.

At least to start income and revenue doing things that like, maybe we would be doing in different ways anyways. And it sounds like for you, it was kind of that entrepreneurial spirit combined with this thing that you're already gonna do, which is go to this annual sale that they do. And so it's essentially, it's like home goods. Like dinnerware. Like.

Yes.

Yeah.

Some furniture.

Furniture, things like that. And for people who couldn't go, they would hire you and then was it like commission based? Like.

Right. So it was like a flat fee to hire me and then commission based. So I would get X percent of the amount that I shop for them for.

Yeah. And the other thing that's so great about that is, like, day one, your business was profitable. Like, you were starting this thing and people were paying you an upfront fee and a commission. And so it's like you had this little community. You knew the hashtags, you knew who to communicate with, you knew the conversations to have. What did that. How did that evolve? Like, once you saw that as a thing that worked, my guess is you kind of continued to post on social, learn how to build a following. There's a. You were posting online, started to learn more. What. What did it look like to evolve into what it is today where you can, you know, as we were talking, could, you know, the site might get a million page views around the holidays. Like, you have additional tour sites that you've launched. And we can get into all of that. But before we do, I want to hear how it evolved out of that initial kind of like, relationship for people to do the shopping for them.

Yeah. And it's kind of what you were saying. The picture was pretty much painted that way. So it was. We now have this. My daughter created the website, but initially I was just on Instagram. That was kind of my platform. And that was new to me. I had Instagram for my business, the cheerleading company, but the cheerleaders ran that. It really wasn't something that I did. So Instagram was really new to me, especially from a personal standpoint. And it was just kind of a personal thing at that point. It evolved into a business. So my business model, kind of funny, it was just. I only got paid once a year at that point because it was an annual sale. So what happened is the influencer industry took shape. And so I was posting, you know, I was posting like you were asking, every day because it was fun. It was just something I love to do about this product that I loved. And I have tons of it in my home. So I had content for days, you know, to create and share on Instagram. And so I just began to get followers. And I often forget this, but really, Instagram was part of my first SEO, part of the evolution, because of the hashtags, which, you know, categorized things. And when I even think about why I really enjoy SEO is I am kind of a neat freak. And it's like everything has a place, and there's a place for everything. So, you know, bins and organization, that's my jam. And I think of SEO that way of compartmentalizing things, compartmentalizing keywords and, you know, grouping things together. So, as hashtags were very similar. And like you said, I learned my community, I learned what hashtags resonated with them. And my goal would be to. Now, it's always we're trying to get top of search. It was to own the hashtag. So whatever hashtag I was using, I wanted to make sure that my Instagram posts were at the top of that hashtag because I knew my audience. That's how they would, you know, we'd look at the hashtags like a catalog as collectors of this product. And. And so I wanted to make sure that mine were top of search. And that's how I garnered, you know, more following. By doing that.

Yeah.

So that's how that took shape. And then I just kept writing on the blog and posting on Instagram, and brands began to reach out, and that was how the business became profitable at that point, beyond just, you know, one.

The one time of the year.

Yeah, yeah.

What did it look like when those first brands were reaching out? Was it interest in posting to the site, like working with you in a sponsor capacity to write, like, a blog post? Or was it mostly Instagram? What did that look like?

Yeah, it was mostly Instagram. I didn't at that point, still know much about the blog. That was just kind of home base for my clients to come to every year. So a lot of my energy was put on Instagram, where I was posting there maybe, you know, one or two times at least every day. And I think this was before Instagram. Stories, you like stories may have come the next year or so. And so brands. My first brand that reached out was a jewelry company. And I actually ran into their physical kiosk in Disney at Disney Springs, and I was almost had a, you know, panic attack. I was so excited. And so my daughter's like, what? You know, like what? So I had to explain. I had to go explain to the people working the kiosk. Like, you gave me my first shot. You sent me product. And, you know, I was so elated. But that's how it started with brands ascending product. And gosh, I think it was. Nivea was my very first campaign and it paid pretty well. I was floored at what they. The email came in and what they offered. And then I did a good job. They came back, you know, the brand gave them more money to continue the campaign. Campaign. They came back for, you know, another round of the same product promotion. And so that just got really fun. And by the time we got to this was probably like 2017. And by the time we got to 2018, I was looking for a manager that I really enjoyed the collaborations and they were all on Instagram. I don't think I'd had a blog placement at that point. Everything was happening on Instagram, the partnerships. And I thought that I need a manager because I don't like the negotiation part. Like, I'm an entrepreneur. I understand, like you said, P. L and all those good things, but I like creating. I've always been a creator. You know, I made hair bows. I've always had that gene. And so the negotiation part or the pushback, you know, I didn't like, I'm not the person that goes and haggles for the car. Yeah, I just want the price.

And it's also hard when you are the creator negotiating on your behalf.

Like, right.

There's a weird dynamic. Maybe not for everybody, but I think it's helpful to have somebody, like, negotiating on your behalf, let alone, like, if you don't like the process of doing it, what a relief to get somebody else to come in. So what did that look like for you to find that person? How did you go about doing it?

It was like, at that point, I'm not sure how it is today. Because I've had the same manager since that time. And. But when I was looking for a manager, I had some, like, coaching consultation calls with some different, like, influencer consultants. And they were all in agreements that I should have a manager. But there were only like maybe five that everyone knew and they were all at capacity.

Sure.

So one day, I think it was Brittany Hennessy who wrote the book. I think it was just called Influencer. It was a great book. And she. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have. Exactly. So Brittany posted on Instagram a post asking. It was some question. It was just a question that she asked. I don't even think it had to do with agent specifically. It was just about a question about brand and influencer relationship. And as I was adding my comment, I started reading the others and I noticed this person commented and whatever their comment was, she mentioned that she was an agent. Like she may have said, as an agent, I think, you know, XYZ about such and such. And so, like, my eyes, you know, lit up. And so I went and found her page, we know through the comment and followed her and got in touch with her. And then here we are, I think five years later that she's still my managing agent. So we actually found each other on social or I found her on social media and our first phone call. Yeah, right. So appropriate. We just hit it off and the rest is history.

How do you work well with a manager? I know you've heard all different sorts of people talk about experiences and hey, I'm working with an agent or a manager and it's really difficult for whatever reason. Or some people like, oh, my gosh, it's so nice to have an agent or a manager because for whatever reason. So I think it's helpful for people to hear their reflections. Like, in your case, like, what are the things that you feel like allow the two of you to work well together and maybe talk through what that process looks like.

Yeah, I think it's. For us, it's a lot of communication. So this is even separate from even her managing, you know, my. My brand or any collaborations. But we just hosted an influencer. We called it Influencer Oasis. So we had it for the influencer community in Las Vegas, where I live. But we just really communicate well together. So we came together and hosted an event to exactly what I was saying in the beginning, to share our knowledge. Her as a, you know, someone that negotiates with brands and works closely with brands, and then myself just as, you know, an influencer and, you know, SEO strategist. Sharing with that community, how to level up, you know, their, you know, how to monetize better for, you know, in the year. So we have a really good, just a good relationship and there's a lot of communication. So for me, in the beginning, it was. She helped give me a lot of structure because this is. I always still say it's the wild, wild west out here. We are, you know, still paving the way of what this looks like as far as, you know, content monetization, whether that's through brand partnerships or ads on your site, however that looks, or product creation, you know, and she gave me a lot of structure because I really, I didn't know what brands look, I had no idea why brands chose me, you know, when they were reaching out, prior to having someone, you know, help me negotiate that. So, you know, the first thing we did, she had me create a media kit and like, you know, she would say X to this or, you know, check mark. Yes to that. So, you know, she put things into perspective. And we have monthly calls as an agency altogether, and she, you know, she tells us what brands are looking for, what we're doing that's working, what's not working, you know, so. So there's just a lot of collaboration and it's just someone else who has their ear kind of to the brand world streets, you know, whereas I'm very, you know, engulfed in content creation. So it's just really good. And at this point, she actually teaches and has a blog on her site also, so I'm able to kind of even share the SEO side with her. But it's also nice because she's in the content creation, you know, arena now too, so that she understands even more of what her creators are doing and, you know, the things that we go through. So I think the collaboration just works so good because there's a lot of communication in our, our structure.

Sure. Does she. Does she post about, like, brand. Like, hey, here's brand news or industry news that's happening. What is the name of the site?

She is Joanna with an H, so J O H A N N A and then Voss with a v, v o s s.com and so on our Instagram on her, she has a blog also. She does share a lot of industry tips, you know, and she's. She's just one of those people who's always like, hey, you got a question? You know, shoot me a dm, I'm happy to answer it for you. So she's just a very collaborative person, but for me, it meant the world not to have to negotiate things. So speaking gigs, I started to take those on, and I didn't have to negotiate that fee, you know, I didn't even know. I would have known what do I charge, you know, for that? And so that she automatically did the contract for the speaking gig that, you know, that comes from her. And so when I'd go somewhere, if I'm out of town doing a speaking gig or presentation, you know, everything's like abc. It's already set up for me. Like, this time you're here, this time you're here. You know, these are your deliverables. Make sure you use this hashtag or make sure this picture goes in. And they only wanted the shot at this angle. So there's just an actual kind of, like, I like checklist. And so that's what she really provides, that foundational checklist of things to make sure that, you know, that are met for said project that's taking place.

And there's so much parsing through that you have to do to, like, pull out of a contract. Like, what's. What is this actually going to be about? And, like, what are the expectations here and the idea of for you as a creator and creative to spend your time, like, number one, negotiating a contract, and then number two, like, pulling out the deliverables and the dates on those. It's like such a great thing to be able to put into somebody else's court that then they take care of and for them to come to you and say, all right, here's what it looks like. And I think a lot of times you. You pay agents and managers well, but you also are probably making more than you would otherwise because they, like you said, no rates, and they know what to charge and what to ask for.

Right.

That's great.

Yeah.

So all of that is. Oh, go ahead.

Oh, say quickly. My first, I think our first deal together, she upped it, you know, by a couple of thousand dollars. And I was like, whoa. You know, so she knows. She just knows what she's doing.

So all of this is kind of like a profit center for you in the world of working with brands. You talked about speaking, you talked about Instagram, but we haven't even touched the world of, like, content and ads, which is another profit center that you have with your blog and website and building that up through search. So what did that look like for you to balance the traction that you had getting paid to work with brands and sponsors with taking time to build up traffic, which you would monetize with display ads. How did you balance those two things? And then how did you get to the point where you had hundreds of thousands of page views?

Yeah. So in all honesty, I don't spend much time with brand partnerships anymore. I really found my zone in the lane of content creation on my site specifically. So for me, it's really important that I'm growing my brand. And when I do work with a brand, it would be more in a collaborative space where it's elevating my brand also and not just where I'm doing the service for them. So I've shifted gears on how that works for me and my business and so SEO. So I had this one blog, my name blog, theshondanicole.com, and again, just like most of us who have, you know, started with this, that it was definitely throwing spaghetti at the wall. Just whatever I felt like writing about what I saw that inspired me. But it was completely, I mean, for lack of a better word, random what I. The content I was creating. So Pinterest, it did, it does, did and still does do very well on Pinterest. But Pinterest, which is great, unlike Google, doesn't require you to have a niche. You can talk about all kinds of things and it doesn't matter if you understand their, you know, their search engine structure. You just tailor, you know, if you need to get traffic for, you know, for chocolate cookies, then you, you know, you create pins for that and understand how that works. But you can also create pins for what I wore today, and that still works on Pinterest.

Collaboratively with that, with Google, you'd, generally speaking, you'd want to stick to a category. So it's not like you have a site with.

Right.

200 posts and a hundred different topics.

Yes, yes. Google is very much looking for authoritativeness because it wants to, it wants to trust that you know what you're talking about. I mean, I always think of Google as like a store itself and they want to serve the best products to their customers who are people, you know, it search in search. People searching are their customers. So it wants to make sure that you know, when it's showing you, you know, something about what I wore today, that maybe your specific, your niche is fashion on this particular style of what I'm looking for. Not that you write about fashion and chocolate chip cookies and what vitamins to take. You know, that it's kind of all over the place. So they're really looking to serve someone that mastery of what they're doing to their audience. And so again, that doesn't matter so much on Pinterest, but it does with Google. So I got an instant pot. Instant pot was like all the craze, and I wanted to, what is this thing? So my husband asked me what I wanted for my birthday. I was like, I want an instant pot. And so I got an instant pot, and I just found it to be, like, the best thing ever. Like, I. I cook. I really do. Like, it says it on my blog, but I do probably 97% of my cooking in my instant pot. And so I'm from Virginia. I live both in Virginia and in Virginia beach and in Las Vegas. So I grew up with Southern cooking. My parents are from North Carolina. So Southern soul food cooking, you know, it's a staple. I'm in the south, and it's just what we grew up on. So I began to take recipes that were traditional family soul food recipes. And I learned that I can do. I can take instead of like and a half to cook candy, yams, I can do that in five minutes, like, taste the same, you know, everything in the instant pot. So that became kind of like a really an inspiration for me to recreate traditional Southern soul food recipes, but with modern kitchen appliance, whether it be instant pot, air fryer. And so that was kind of my niche for starting the blog. And so I met with an SEO strategist before starting because I was like, I'm going to do this right this time. I'm not going to, like, you know, just start creating content and then figure out why this isn't working. And so she told me that I know you may think that, you know, you have, like, some health content on your lifestyle site and that people will come here and then they'll see your recipe and want to, you know, look at that too. And she's like, they won't. They're coming for a specific reason. And the other thing that you have there is not going to be of interest to them if it's not related. So you need to separate the content. And so that's what I did. So when I started writing about food, I completely separated food from the lifestyle site. And that's how the soul food pot, my food blog, took shape. And so from there, I was just very, very niche about that. So if I go out and I have a wonderful seafood or let's say Italian meal, whereas before, I'd probably think, oh, that's great, let me write about that. I don't. It's not Southern soul food. So, yeah, I'm very specific that's something I may post in Instagram stories, you know, just to share with the audience. But I. It doesn't. It can't make it to the blog. It's not the genre of what I'm writing about. And so. Oh, go ahead.

It's interesting to think about just, like, intent as a consideration when creating content. And when you think of Instagram oftentimes, but not always, or any other social platform, like, the intent is like, entertainment, potentially, or just curiosity or exploration. And so often with search, the intent is pretty clear. It's like, yes, somebody who wants to make, you know, Southern fried chicken, and they maybe will also, like, read an associated post with it. But, like, that's kind of what they're. They've kind of made up their mind, like, that's what they want. And so I think it's really a good point to make the one that you made around, like, thinking about what is the intent of somebody related to the content that you're producing and how does that change the content that you produce? Do you ever find it to be, like, restrictive, like, oh, it'd be really nice if I could do this? Or is it actually kind of freeing to know I can only do this and I can only and I won't do this because these are the boundaries on the type of content that I'm creating?

I think it's the latter. It's the freeing because now there's no guesswork about, like, would this rank? Should I do this? You know, it's. It's very. Again, I like the checklist. I'm a, you know, organization checklist kind of person. So the boundaries are really good for me that I'm not guessing, or like I said before, you know, throwing things at the wall trying to figure out, like, will this rank? Won't it rank? For me, Google just makes sense. I feel like the clue, they're really. I would call them clues, but I just feel like the answers are already there. You know, if you study, you know, if you just study a search, you know, you can just say, like, you said, fried chicken. If we just search that and we pay attention to what shows up in the search results, because search intent, as you mentioned, is very crucial, and that's kind of the starting point. So if you were to search like fried chicken, honestly, what's. Or what's going to come up is probably restaurants. That's typically what someone's searching for. Now, if we add the word recipe to that, then that changes the game. Now there's someone who wants to make fried chicken. Yeah. And so those are things that really matter. That would be like step number one in doing keyword research is to understand what the intent is of the audience, you know, when they're going in for that search. So I do find it more liberating because it gives me more, you know, clarity as to what I should be writing about and what we, you know, can just leave for Instagram stories and still content, but we just won't put it in this space.

Yeah, it's Lindsay and I talk a lot about this when we think about like where, where does stuff go? And we have all these options of these places where things can land. They can go on a website, they can go on a social platform, they can go on Pinterest, they can go on an email. And I think that your point around understanding like the intent of people is really good because then it helps to clarify. Okay, this is maybe not something I'd post to the blog because it's more, you know, you want to be genre specific. But if it's still interesting and it's still unique or people might like it, you could post it to Instagram. There's not going to be like some algorithm hit because you posted about an Italian meal when you're out in Vegas.

Right.

When the general theme is like southern and before we continue, let's take a moment to hear from our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Raptive. You may have heard of Raptive, formerly Ad Thrive, as an ad provider for over 4,000 of the world's top digital content creators, pinch of yum included. But they're not just an ad provider, they're a strategic partner that helps creators build their businesses with the resources they need to grow and monetize their audiences. They offer customized industry leading solutions like an engagement suite called slickstream, resources on email strategy assistance, HR guidance and more. So creators can focus on what they want to be focusing on creating great content. If your blog has at least 100,000 monthly page views, 100% original content, and the majority of traffic from the US, Canada, the UK, Australia or New Zealand, you can apply to become a Raptive creator by going to raptive.com and clicking the Apply now button. And even if you're not quite at the point of being able to apply to Raptive, they can support you in your traffic growing goals through an 11 week email series. Head to foodbloggerpro.com Raptive to get access to to this free series. Everything Raptive does is in support of creators like you. Whether you're just starting out or bringing hundreds of thousands of visitors to your site each week. Thanks again to Raptive for sponsoring this episode. So tell me more about splitting the site. So you had your site, it was your name, and then you're like, okay, I want to be more strategic about this. So you created the soul food potential that's going to be this focus on these kind of soul food recipes, but also taking those and making those like, easier or more accessible, quicker, potentially maybe using instant pot or air fryer. And how do you divide and now have like a kind of travel site where you talk about Las Vegas as well and. Yeah, how do you divide your attention between those? Or is it kind of like more of a playground and you're like, these are the things I like to do and what do I want to post about today? Tell me about kind of the decision making process with that.

Yeah, I would say it's more of a playground because anyone who knows me knows that I love Las Vegas. So I say, like, now that I have the site, I'm the newest spokesperson for Las Vegas. And I actually, because of the site, garnered a book deal. So I have a book, a travel book coming out next year in stores everywhere about Las Vegas. 100 things to do in Las Vegas before you die. So, yeah, it's just super fun for me thinking I'm just, you know, small town, Virginia girl that loves Las Vegas. And now I have, you know, a publisher who's willing to support me in a book on that.

Which is also one of the benefits of picking a narrow niche is that it's easier for people to say, like, what do you create content about? And like.

Right.

If somebody wants to work with somebody to create content about Las Vegas, who do they go to? Well, they go to you, like, right?

It's very clear.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah. So that was wonderful. It was, it was an easy yes for them because of the. The site existed. So it is like a playground. And it. Sometimes I have to like, tear myself away, like, oh, I want to write about this for Vegas, but, you know, I need to get this recipe up. So. But I do feel that because of SEO, I'm very in tune with my audience on both sites. So it's usually pretty clear as to, you know, what's the next thing that we're writing about. And I let the data also tell that story. So one of my rules in SEO is that one of the pillars that I have for myself is it's not what you say, it's what they say. And so it's always the content creation is based on what the audience is looking for. Sometimes it comes in the form of a comment where that happened recently where someone said on the Vegas site, like, can you share things to do here? And how to get an Uber? And I was like, oh, that's amazing. Like, yeah, how to get an Uber in Vegas. Because you've never been to Vegas. You don't know really what that looks like. You know, do they come to the airport? Do they take you to the Strip? You know, what does that really look like? And so it was a great blog post. I syndicate to msn. I think that one did amazing even on that platform. So sometimes it comes directly from the, you know, my. My audiences, you know, direct feedback of can you share this type of, you know, post. And then most of the time it comes from search, Search console, Google search console. And, you know, what keywords I'm ranking for or, you know, what blog, what posts may need supporting posts because, you know, they're doing well or we need to, you know, branch out. There's more to cover ground on this one subject. So that goes for the food blog and the Vegas site. So I can say that I am very in tune with what each site kind of needs. And that's how I tend to write from there. And for both, they are things, even SEO, you know, they're just things that I can talk about in my sleep. So it makes it really fun to. To create content and, you know, to. To share new content around, you know, both of those subjects, where it's soul food or whether it's Las Vegas.

That's awesome. A couple of questions coming off of that. One of the things that's. It's interesting to think about the world of travel because it's so different than the world of food completely. Do you. Are you able to expense trips that, like, will you go out? Is that part of it is like. I feel like that would be one of the many benefits of like, a travel site is like, suddenly that is your business.

Right.

And like, that's all. Not all, but, like, I would guess a lot of the things that usually people would consider to be like, tourism vacation is like, oh, no, this is content. And therefore is a business expense.

It so is. Yeah. And it's almost like pinch yourself too good to be true. Because we felt when we moved to Vegas, we fell in love with the Vegas Strip. So we are those locals who, you know, constantly are going to the Strip. So when they're like, we just have the Super Bowl. So when There are amazing things going on. If I'm buying tickets for any of the, you know, activations happening around town because of that. It's, you know, it's totally a business thing. Even though we're having, you know, we're really enjoying this experience. So that is a really fun part of it. But yeah, definitely. Travel and food are, are two totally different, I guess animals, you would say like a cat and a dog when we're talking about creating content.

Yeah. The other thing that you talked about that I'd be interested to hear your reflections on are the syndicating the content you said you syndicated to msn. Like what does that look like and what is the thought process with that and how does it work?

It's something that's new for me and I'm really enjoying it. The greatest thing ever. And again, it's a pinch me moment. I can't believe that they're letting me do this. And it's true. But as you garner, MSN is owned by Microsoft. I mean, they have billions of users and you're earning backlinks from this incredible source. So in essence it boils down to you have content on your blog and MSN allows you to literally add a plugin to your site, click a button, and now that whole article, whether it's a recipe or a travel article, goes over to msn. With all links that you have internally or even affiliate wise externally from your site, you maintain the canonical link, meaning that you maintain the original source link. So you're not competing with your content on msn, you know, with your content, the same content on Google, you maintain the original source link and it's, Google just knows that this content was, you know, worthy enough and it's just being shared over here. And MSN even says, you know, the, this post, you know, originally, you know, comes from the soul food pot and you know, whether it's, you know, corn recipe or whatever it is. So it's a, it's amazing. There's a profit share on the ad. There's an ad profit share with that. So it's just something I've just gotten into this year and I haven't even gotten to the money part of it. Just the aspect of earning that type of backlink is just simply mind blowing and incredible.

Yeah. Can you talk about what a canonical link is for those who aren't familiar?

Yeah, it's like, thank you for getting me to clarify that because it's a clunky word that I like dropped in there. So it's going to be. So for example, if in this case where it's the exact same article being shared over somewhere else, Google would definitely recognize that and say, hey, hey, hey, you know, what are we doing here? You know, this is the exact same content, Shonda. It's on your site on the Soul Food pod and it's over here on msn. So what it is is it's MSN is categorizing it, saying that we're not the canonical link, that we're not the original source link. So I call it like in my head it's like the sanctioned link, the original source L. And so that's your link or my link. If it's my content going over to MSN and or any other platform it could be. So in this case MSN is coding it appropriately so that Google understands that the original source is the Soul Food Pots, you know, recipe in this case. And MSN is, has now a non canonical link where they are just syndicating or sharing that same exact content. But it's over here. And so that it's important that it's coded correctly for Google because I think we all know like we can't just copy and paste a blog post on our own site and title it something different. That Google definitely frowns upon that because that's not good for the user. The user wants content that's in the search intent is for what they search for. So we can't just duplicate things and call it something else and in essence trick the user or the search engine.

Yeah, that's great. And canonical usually being a link that you don't even see. Like a lot of times it's just like hidden behind within the code like the structured data, but it's a signal back like hey, this is like you said, original source. And so Google knows that you've talked about, you know, mentioned a couple different things, talked about doing some keyword research, talked about Google Search Console. What are some of the other tools that you really like from a SEO perspective that you find helpful in your SEO tool belt?

Right. So I love a keyword research tool and quite honestly some of the tools that I used to like kind of live, live and die by, you know, for my, when I'm creating an article have changed since the HCU or helpful content updates, those that have taken place with Google from the end of last year. So kind of quarter four was the end of quarter three they started but around quarter four into, you know, where we are now, into 2024. So my process is a little bit different I still use a keyword research tool where I go in and just kind of look at what's the search volume on this. Like, is anybody even looking for this? You know, how to approach it? What's the, what's the best keyword that I should be using? Like, you know, and I'll start with Google to kind of see again, search intent. What comes up. If I'm putting in fried chicken again, are they looking for a restaurant or are they looking for, you know, how to make a recipe? So we're always starting with Google to make sure that we've covered ground in the search intent. And then we're just playing with what's the right keyword we're trying to rank for here. And whereas I would really deep dive and take that further. I used to use a couple of keyword tools where I'd go so granular as to kind of find out what questions are people asking. I'd had a tool that would pull specific questions from Google. But HCU has changed things. And we're noticing of course, that content where it was like, oh, long form content. Long form content. It really isn't wanting that anymore. And because it's not as user friendly. So we can definitely, we're seeing like Quora and, you know, Reddit forums showing up in search. You know, when we're doing searches, I think everyone's seeing that. Well, it's because it's actually kind of easy that it gets right to the point. It gets to the, you know, the point of what the user search for and gives them a, you know, a pretty quick logistical answer. So like I said, I feel like the answers are always in Google, like just performing a search yourself, you can see like, I don't even call them clues or just the answers of how Google really wants things for its customer. So I hope I answer that question. So I still use keyword tools, but not the same way.

Almost saying, like using Google as the primary tool, finding a keyword and then just seeing what type of content is ranking well, right. For this keyword right now and using that as like a soft indicator to inform potentially like what type of content should be created for that keyword.

Right.

Because it's obvious, like, okay, that's the thing that Google prefers. Yes. If it's like, you know, in the world of travel content and you're creating something like, you know, the best steak dinners in Las Vegas, you can see, is that like somebody going super deep on like an explanation of each restaurant, Is it just like a list of the top 10 with, like, one sentence after. And that can be something that informs what type of content we should be creating. If the intent is kind of SEO. When you are creating content right now on any of your sites, is it always SEO forward? Like, is that how you're approaching all of the content creation is like thinking about SEO?

Definitely. It's definitely SEO for. But at the flip side of that, we're not writing for SEO, if that makes sense. So for Vegas, my site is Vegas right now. And so I like to be kind of the, you know, first on the scene, the source. So when new things, you know, really happen there, I like to be able to share that. So that's really not necessarily an SEO thing. It's just I want to make sure that we have really current content about what's happening in Vegas today. So, like, we keep a show list update, you know, updates of shows that are happening so that when you're, you know, you're coming to the site, you're getting the most. You know, you're not getting last year's shows showing up. It's the current shows, like, in the next three months that are happening. So then, of course, once we decide what article is going to be published, what that subject is, then there is definitely an SEO strategy because we want to make sure that people find it, which is very important.

Yeah, you. You mentioned hcu. Helpful content update. My guess is that most people are familiar kind of with what that is and how that played out. Some people might not be super familiar with the ins and outs, but everybody probably to some degree has been impacted by it. Some people pretty significantly. Other people not as much. I know that you, along with creating your own content, work with other publishers to kind of help sort through all of this. What are you seeing right now in terms of sites and blogs and the impact that HCU has had?

Yeah, and honestly, I feel like HCU has affected most of us. There are articles, like, on my food site that we're rewriting, you know, just to be in that kind of position that I talked about where it's more directly to the point. So I shared a lot of stories because my recipes come with a lot of cultural relevance and stories of how, like, my family may have gotten to this. So we are certainly doing updates. I kind of like those challenges. It's kind of funny because I just like to know that, like, I can be flexible and, you know, adapt to changes, so I embrace them. And, you know, we. We just move forward in that direction. But it's a lot of What? I mentioned that whereas we would put so much into one article that we really need to look at that and see like, that probably should be like two, maybe even five different articles. It's probably not a one article thing. There's just too much. And I kind of think of it like on the travel side, it's like dad content. So if you were thinking you're going on a vacation and dad's probably the one who knows how tall the mountain is, who scaled it before, what year that happened, and that would not be something that the average user, maybe mom who's going in or kids want it, they just want to know what times it open, what times it closed. Give me just the things that I need as a traveler to know how to get to this national park or this attraction. And then in a separate article, we can dive in to how high is it? How much did it cost to build it, all those dad kind of things. So that's the way that I'm seeing. And like I said, we see the Quora and the Reddit show up because they really condense that content into what the user really just needs to know very quickly.

Yeah, it's interesting. You see the lists of sites that are impacted positively or negatively and like the cores and the Reddits are just like off the charts. It's just like, right. There's so many search terms that have been kind of gobbled up by those sites. You know, in, in the food world, it's maybe not quite as if you're just doing recipe content. Like a Quora or a Reddit maybe won't cannibalize those as much or not cannibalize, but like take those over. But if you were doing like best yoga pants or something like that, like, and you ranked really well or like best places to visit in Minneapolis, like you could have ranked for that. And then suddenly now there's like Reddit and Quora box and it has all of these threads from these platforms and it's like, oh man. You can see pretty quickly how single algorithm change can kind of upend your business and change things.

Yeah.

So kind of as we round the corner and close out, I'm curious to hear you as you look forward within your business. You've had a lot of experience with business. We talk about starting with the retail store, kind of learning the ropes, getting into the world of publishing online, both with your platform and your blog, and kind of refining that process. And now here we are in 2024. What, what do you think of when you look out and you look on the horizon to where you're going as an entrepreneur, as a creator, where do you see the opportunities and what would your advice be for people who are kind of in the game with you when you kind of look ahead?

Yeah, I love this question. I'm always looking, my strategy is always long term. So it's never just like, you know, for today. I'm always trying to, you know, see this as a full fledged, it is a full fledged business. But seeing that things that we're creating or, you know, are for the long term and not just for today. So one of the tips I would have is simply just being well rounded, like just not, you know, not just brand partnerships or, you know, not like I sell product, we sell digital printable products. Also I do consulting. You know, there are websites and for me it's more websites. You know, I really enjoy the, the content creation. I really enjoy the SEO structure. So I look forward to like a fourth site in 2025. My eye is on a pet site and I travel with my pets and so I would love to share, you know, how I navigate that, how I get them on a plane and they're quiet the whole time and just share those stories and they're just used to it and they love it. So it's just thinking long term type of content. You know, I think, you know, we, we say evergreen content, but really making sure that we're, you know, hammering down on that things that are going to, you know, make, you know, make revenue for years to come. And I just don't think in this day and age, maybe like five years ago it was different, or honestly maybe a year and a half ago it was different. But as a content creator, we cannot ignore SEO any longer. It is crucial to how content is created to, to rank top of that search engine. It's very important to be in tune with how search engine optimization, how that optimization works.

Yeah, it's, there's something to be said about that idea of diversification and you know, we have versions of that, we have Picture beyond, we have Food Blogger Pro Clarity as a software tool. But then also, and we don't talk about this a lot, it's like we have this kind of other world of real estate and it's like the ultimate contrast to all things digital. But the reason is number one, like, similar to you, I think there's something to be said about, it's enjoyable to have multiple things that you're doing. And I think for some people, if you were only doing one thing, and it was really narrow, and that's all that you're doing. It might get old, Right?

Right.

It might burn out. Like, some of it is just like being able to sustain yourself by having variety. But the other piece that is so helpful is, like, you know that if one of your sites is impacted, you maybe have another site, and that site might not be impacted. And so there's a little bit of this, like, load balancing that we can potentially do. You have to make sure it comes at the right time, because you can't, like, start four things at the same time. But I think it's really wise to think about, like, what does that look like to balance across multiple things so you're not just in one area and to have those different kind of revenue streams that you can have as an entrepreneur. And bonus, if it's all stuff that you enjoy doing.

Totally agree.

That's true for you, whether it's traveling with your pets or going to Las Vegas or, you know, making incredible recipes.

Yeah. And definitely you mentioned the real estate conversation for another time. But between, you know, that's our family business, so we have tenants and property, so it's kind of the foundation to all of it. But, yeah, that's a whole nother helpful conversation at the top of the hour.

This is what happens, is then we open up this entire door that we can walk into and we could explore. But we'll have to schedule another podcast interview. But, yeah, I think it comes back to that. And I think a lot of the conversations even that I have with creators who are at a certain point where they've been able to build up some profit. The question then is, like, what do you do with that? It's probably like a series that we could do on the podcast, which is like, what do you do when you're at the point where you have established success and have this profit coming in? Then how do you be strategic about you reinvest it? Do you like. Like in your case, invest in real estate? Do you put it in the stock market? Like, what are all those kind of considerations which are fun but also potentially daunting kind of decisions?

So definitely can be daunting decisions. But the geek and me, it's another fun conversation.

Yeah. All right, sounds good. Well, if people. Sean, if people want to connect with you, if they want to reach out, I know that you talked about doing, you know, working with other publishers and, you know, maybe people have a trip to Las Vegas coming up. Like, what's the best way for people to connect with you? And follow along with what you're up to and see all the other stuff that you're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. So Shonda Nicole is my site and actually kind of the home base now. So from that site you can get Shonda Nicole. And my parents were a little creative, so I'm S h a u n D a and Nicole is very untraditional. It's N e c o l e.com and from there, there's a dropdown, I think under about me for my consulting services. But also on the homepage, if you want to know more about Vegas, you can link directly to my Vegas site, which is vegasrightnow.com and then also on the homepage, there's a direct link to my food site, which is the soul food pot.com and on Instagram, I am also Shonda Nicole.

Awesome. Last question for you. You're. We're doing a trip to Las Vegas. Let's hypothetically. Okay, where's the one restaurant that we need to go to? We can only go to. We can. We have one night in Vegas. What restaurant is it?

One night in Vegas. Oh, gosh, there's. Because there's on the Strip. Off the Strip. Well, I'm going to say this one because it's dinner in a show. So it's. It's almost kind of like Speakeasy ish. But it's not completely hidden, but it's super freako. I just took some guests there because you get a dinner, you get a show, you get a deejay. It's just. It's so Vegas.

That's awesome. There it is. Super freako. Love it. Well, we'll add it to the list next time we go. Shauna, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. Loved. I love the conversation.

Hey there, this is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team. Thank you so much for listening to that episode of the Food Blogger Pro podcast. I wanted to take a minute and just ask that if you enjoyed this episode or any of our other many episodes of the Food Blogger Pro podcast that you share it. It means so much to us as a podcast, if you share episodes with your friends and family or if you are a food blogger or entrepreneur, if you could share them on social media or even in your email newsletters. It really helps us get the word out about our podcast and reach more listeners. Thanks again for listening. We really hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you back here next week.

Sam.